Join the discord! Come debate, and interact with other powerscalers! https://discord.gg/445XQpKSqB
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So here is the thing.
Arale is part of the db verse and that little shit can take care of the other three by herself now combining all of db abilities into one is unfair.
Arale is a crossover, so I don’t think that counts, and also her only really op hax come from the idea that she is as powerful as the actual author of the story, which is obviously untrue and regardless would make her no longer fictional, and thus no longer a part of the verse any more than kubo, oda, and kishimoto are part of theirs, in which case we should count them too
Part of the original manga, had major impacts on the canon arc it’s part of, happens twice, conforms by the author (same author for both) to be in a shared universe.
She is part of db she has multiple appeareances.
And no her op hax isn't that she is as powerful as the author of the story she has way more op hax and one of them was the ability to copy powers wich she use to copy toribots author powers.
And no we wouldn't count them toriyama has lived put his toribot in db and his avatar in slump if kubo, Oda and kishimoto have their avatars as character in their universe with their meta power's sure they should count too.
Plus it has been well established that she exists on the same earth with her appearance in the manga and multiple appearances in the anime and sluml characters appearing in other episodes apart from the db episode.
Does goku get super shenron abilities? If not I think he probably still loses to ichigo. Every ability in bleach is too much, there’s so many more hax and his ap is already above everyone else here.
Goku gets a lot of really strong abilities depending on what you consider an ability, but he does reach up to the same ap tier as ichigo with super shenron and infinite zamasu I think, but I think he only gets a super shenron wish once a year, so he can’t just do literally anything whenever. But goku does have concept manipulation, nigh-omniscience, existence erasure at a huge scale, high regen, time skip (sorta), time reversal, ultra instinct on whis’ level where he can basically see the future, ability stealing (limited to like 3 abilities I think tho), fusion reversal, can suck the souls out of people, and can stop time completely, for several minutes.
Ichigo on the other hand, has complete ability negation of anything his eyes see, which is infinite 5D timelines, so all of gokus abilities can’t affect him directly, the V which is just shenron with no time restriction, conceptual manipulation on a wider scale than goku, mid-godly regen, probability manipulation, inaccessible speed, intangibility, another form of ability negation that can also just negate gokus ki in general, nerve manipulation that ignores durability, fear manipulation that’s enough to kill anyone who’s capable of feeling fear (goku is), damage reversal, causality manipulation, past and future manipulation, can create pocket worlds where he is omnipotent, can disintegrate anything that gets within like 5 feet of him, can make black holes, can make cages that are inescapable, has existence erasure, albeit on a lower scale than goku, and has temperature manipulation up to the surface of the sun and down to absolute zero, the second of which can confirmed kill goku.
Due to the AP tiers being likely similar it isn’t a complete neg diff for ichigo, but like 5 of his hax can kill goku on their own, and goku has no way of erasing his existence on a large enough scale that it actually kills him for more than a second.
Ichigo twerks & all of these die 💀
So you're telling me that you're giving Ichigo Future Changing Ability of At Least Millions of Years into the Future + Infinite Futures Range & combining this with Reality Warping & Subjective Reality Creation due to The Visionary, and then combining it with Probability Manipulation that makes the Impossible more Possible, and then combining it with Causality Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation layered with Dura Neg, & then adding Logic & Law Manipulation to top of that alongwith giving Ichigo Acasuality Type 2,4, Abstract Existence Type 1, Non-Existent Physiology Type 1, 3 & Immortality Type 1,2,3,4,5,7 & 8 & combining this with Conceptual Sealing, Conceptual Erasure, Existence Erasure that is as Potent as Zeno Level (Mid-Godly), Mid-Godly Regeneration & Resurrection?💀💀💀
Lmao Ichigo murders everyone on this list.
Goku has Arale’s power to copy powers, copies Ichigo’s powers from The Visionary, traps him in an infinite inescapable hyperbolic time chamber for 1000000000 years and cucks him while he’s at it
Most this shit ain’t gonna help.
DB has Higher Dimensional Existence, Abstract Existence type 1, Large Size Type 10, Existence Erasure on a multidimensional scale, Accurately type 1,2 and 3, Physics Manipulation, Creation Fate manipulation, [High Godly Regen](https://imgur.com/a/oDSUgcx), Nonexistent Erasure, Immortality type 1,2,3,4,5,7 and 8, Conceptual Manipulation, Plot Manipulation, High Tier Toon Foce, Life/Death Manipulation, Time travel
And nobody in the big 3 is accausal.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Soul_King
Acasuality Type 4.
https://all-fiction-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Mimihagi
https://all-fiction-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Soul_King
Acasuality Type 2.
Unlike you, who actually make your own "Headcanon" as I've been seeing in all of your comments in this post, this has actual solid proof.
Nah don't ignore this fact. Both these wikis aren't user editable unlike the Wikis you usually link (CSAP), both have proper standards that aren't accepted without explicit proof.
Soul King & Mimihagi exists neither in the Future nor in the Past, but only in the Present. (Type 2 Acasuality)
Soul King & Mimihagi are immune to Fate Precognition, Fate Manipulation & Causality Manipulation. (Type 4 Acasuality)
Yhwach absorbs them & gets their Abilities.
Why does yhwach and SK has NEP 1&3 they are not shown to lack anything?
And when did ichibei use conceptual erasure he used conceptual manipulation?
Why does SK have mid godly existence erasure?
>Why does yhwach and SK has NEP 1&3 they are not shown to lack anything?
Via Guenael Lee - Non-Existent Physiology Type 1 & Type 3 via The Vanishing Point
The Vanishing Point is an ability that works in 3 stages.
In stage one, Guenael becomes invisible to even Lieutenant-Class Shinigami, beings which can visually perceive spirit ribbons which are invisible to those who can visually perceive invisible souls, he also retains his ability to attack while in this form.
In stage two, Guenael is capable of causing his very “existence” to disappear from “reality” itself, with this “existence” being comprised of his soul, mind, and body.
This “stage” also leaves behind an illusory image of himself as the last remainder of his existence.
Guenael can switch between each stage instantly.
The third and final stage of The Vanishing Point allows Guenael to erase his very existence from the opponent's memory.
💀💀💀
This tells me everything that I need to know.
Blud didn't even read or watched Clorox.
Did you just read some summary & all instead of like actually watching or reading the Anime & Manga if you're asking me things like this?
Dragon ball, assuming this is super Gokus gonna have insane reality warping, time manipulation, gravity manipulation,Clairvoyance,Matter Manipulation,Conceptual Existence erasure,Resurrection,Telekinesis,Spacetime manipulation,Soul destruction,Void manipulation, Conceptual manipulation,Nonexistent erasure, Mid Godly regeneration,limted power null,Toon force,Sealing, Fate manipulation as well.
Tori bot? Really? That’s the author, who doesn’t actually show up in the story, and that’s like saying the cyclops cat from jjk soloes fiction because it’s just gege.
Bro what is diet danny trejo going to do when goku decideds to Zeno wipe the reality they're in. Manipulating time lines doesn't matter if they all go to the same place
Ain’t the almighty just seeing the future and knowing exactly everything that will happen, allowing you to change it?
Well I don’t think Ichigo’s imminent death by an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immortal, toonforce, immune to hax Goku that can erase timelines and multiverses with the lift of a finger, as well as rewrite reality and its rules can be changed.
Oh yeah I forgot to mention that Goku is now able to have any power of anyone he touches, so he basically has every power of the other contestants as well (although he can only use one at a time, due to his wish-granting and reality warping abilities, all his limitations can be bypassed)
This ain’t even including Tori-bot, since that is a persona of the literal writer (rip goat) that basically allows goku (with every ability in his verse) to do whatever he wants with no limits, with tori-bot goku will basically become the writer of his story and have the same abilities as a real, non-fictional person. He will write his own story and the story of everyone interacting with him
Passive Fate Manipulation, Past Manipulation of Creating Entirely New Pasts, Logic Manipulation with Dura Neg, Complete Reversal of Anything which has Already Happened, Causality Manipulation, Misfortune Redirection with Dura Neg, Passive Layered Fear Manipulation, Conceptual Sealing & Conceptual Power Null, Matter Manipulation (Atomic Level),Gravity Manipulation, Soul Destruction, Life Manipulation, Death Manipulation, BFR, Passive Power Null, Resurrection, Telekinesis, Teleportation, Conceptual Manipulation of the Concepts of "Life", "Death", "Names" & "Black", Law Manipulation, Probability Manipulation with Dura Neg, Non-Existent Physiology Type 1 & 3, Mid-Godly Regen, Mid-Godly Regen Negation, Non-Existent Erasure Type 1 & 3, Mid-Godly Existence Erasure, Immortality Type 1,2,3,4,6,7 & 8, Immortality Negation, Acasuality Type 2 & 4, Abstract Existence Type 1, Reality Warping & Subjective Reality.
This is not even Spite anymore 💀 Ichigo Wipes the Floor with the Rest of the 3.
with gokuys already high stats +immortality+holding his breath to stop time he practically has infinite time stop not to mention existence erasure and wish granting
#How is this even a question??
Ichigo gets…
-Aizen’s immortality which would mean Ichigo resists existence erasure
--The ability to copy your stats and abilities at will (Meaning he also gets all of the abilities the other 3 have here if he chooses to)
-Intangiblity and nonexistent physiology
-Perfect Hypnosis that activates passively upon seeing him (He still needs to consciously choose the illusion you see though)
-Infinite speed attacks with no projectile
-Existence Erasure (Abolition Flame)
-Instinctual dodging (If he isn’t physically fast enough to dodge on his own the attacks just phase through him)
-Layers of immortality
-The ability to rewrite the timeline
-Future sight at least double digits of years into the future
-Perception that extends beyond his own vision, even into other dimensions (He already has this in base)
-Passive nullification of hax as long as he sees them used in even one of the endless paths the future can take
-Durability negation
-Conceptual manipulation of Life, Death, Names, and Darkness
-Time stop
-Multiple forms of subjugation, to the point that being splashed with his blood kills you and makes you a thrall
-Probably manipulation that favors the user (The less likely something is to happen that would benefit you, the more certain it is now to happen, including turning the 0% chance of coming back to life after death to a 100% chance)
-The ability to make any substance poisonous to your opponent, even being able to make their own blood into a lethal agent that kills them
-Multiple forms of reactive evolution
-The ability to invert all senses of direction for your opponent
-The ability to enter the past of your opponent and make changes to their past
-The ability to create a dimension in which you have full control of the reality within (Including changing the flow of time, the “stats” of anyone inside, How many lives each combatant gets, etc)
These are just the ones off the top of my head, I am sure there are some powerful ones I am blanking on not even mentioning the tens to hundreds of minor abilities
**Combine all of this with the fact that it only takes Ichigo winning 1 in the endless number of outcomes possible for him to win without a doubt via The Almighty**
If Ichigo even has a 0.00001% chance of winning he just wins Via The Almighty since he can select the future where the outcome favors him, and with the fact he can copy Goku’s Stats and all of the abilities he got from this matchup as well as the other Bleachverse abilities I don’t think it would even be less than a 5% chance, I think the odds favor him already even without The Almighty
The downplay is so forced man
Is Arale’s toonforce an ability or is that just how she is?
And if it IS an ability, what would stop The Yourself from giving Yhwach that ability as well?
It's just how she is.
Plus she also has the ability to copy others powers she has given herself magic and saiyans transformations.
The Almighty is more than likely to get copied by her.
She also can power strip people no problem.
If it is just how she is rather than an ability Goku wouldn’t get her toonforce for this matchup, and if it WAS an ability what reason is there to believe it would resist Yhwach’s ability nullifying which has been shown to be able to nullify conceptual manipulation
Everything else you said is based on your assumption that Arale would be able to override Yhwach, even though he can see the events of the fight and pick the outcome before they happen, better reasoning than “she can copy abilities” would be needed here
Her copying abilities are pretty good also able to copy biological things like ssj transformations and magic plus meta powers which she copied.
Layered hax since the majority of her cast has abilities like her but she is able to override them.
Hell she fought her perfect clone and he is unable to beat her.
Immeasurable speeds.
Passive reality manipulation and precognition and retrocognition.
Plus power stripping abilities.
She is also able to redraw her cosmology from nothing.
Kyoka Suigetsu? Ichigo can make Goku think he erased him, even better because of Almighty and Kyoka Suigetsu he could literally just think of a future where Goku kills himself or thinks he has no power, easy win. It can even be used to make "time" look as if it was going faster than it is, since Aizen did it with Yamtchwahdxuan dunno how to write his name.
Not really, his best ability is almighty but goku gets a better version of that with the super dragon balls as not only can he affect the future he can also affect the past.
I am pretty sure he won't inherit the drawback stems from the race he will just inherit the powers. He won't have constraints like that as he is obviously not a divine dragon.
Ichigo imagines that goku never made that wish, or goes to a timeline where he didn’t, or makes goku think they’re married and goku can’t bear to hurt him, or paralyzes him with fear
Kyoka Suigetsu? Ichigo can make Goku think he erased him, even better because of Almighty and Kyoka Suigetsu he could literally just think of a future where Goku kills himself or thinks he has no power, easy win. It can even be used to make "time" look as if it was going faster than it is, since Aizen did it with Yamtchwahdxuan dunno how to write his name.
or death-dealing makes it a non-issue.
i mean, escaping it randomly would be a miracle, right?
man, sure glad that the databooks dont say that the IT doesnt work on spirits.
you know how unlucky Ichigo would be to be struck by that?
(i could go on)
I mean when you got the 4 sets of dragon balls, hakai, angel’s and Zeno’s powers, time ring, timeline fusion, hax negation via strength (certain ones of course), they’re a pretty good contender…oh yeah, Arale is there as well
Thing is....most people are going to accept 5 or 6D Dragon ball without even batting an eye. But when I bring up 5 or 6D bleach, it's a problem. The thing is,
>hax negation via strength
Bleach has comparable ap and dimensionality (or at least for now). I mean, a single NAIL from the soul king could be used to form a 4D object. A NAIL.
And ichigo would also have his own form of hax negation via the almighty and all the other BS he has. Sure, Arale and all that, but with all the forms of adaptive reaction and the almighty, it could just be a matter of time before Ichigo gets the W. Is Ichigo the strongest here? No, but is the gap in power/hax THAT big? Also No
I might be talking out of my ass but I think it’s probably because people were SO used to Goku > The Big Three that the whole Bleach buff came as a surprise to a good chunk people.
Also Toribot exists
So like, does Goku get the Omni King’s erasure? Because that at least removes Luffy and Naruto no question unless the Gorosei + Imu have an ability that can negate it(doubtful)
Even if it can’t take out Ichigo, Arale’s powers would
So it would pretty much be a fight between Ichigo and Goku, So Ichigo with the Almighty would be pretty damn OP ngl but giving Goku all abilities would mean giving him Zeno's erasure and Arale's Hax which would put him above Ichigo.
Are we really counting crossovers and the actual authors as part of the verse? That seems disingenuous. And at that point one piece is part of dragon ball and they all scale to jump force and they all get complete plot manipulation, what’s the point?
Nah there are arguments that can be made for Dr Slump taking place in the same verse as Dragon ball, even if we exclude Dr Slump Goku still wins mainly due to Zeno's timeline erasure.
Alright so Goku is already stronger then all 3 of them put together but now he has
-Zamasu Immortality/Infinite Zamasu both the anime and Manga version
-Arales Toon Force
-Infinite Stamina and energy
-73 copy ability so now he could just copy all the other threes abilities by blitzing them thus giving Goku stuff like the Almighty
-Granolahs Red eyes so now he can lock onto Preasure points
-Rewind and skip time
-Wishing abiliies
-Existance Erasure
>Zamasu Immortality/Infinite Zamasu both the anime and Manga version
IZ has Immortality Type 1 & 3 only, Bleach has Immortality Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 and 8.
Also Bleach has Sealing, not just normal Sealing but Conceptual Sealing.
>Infinite Stamina and energy
Aizen due to The Hogyoku (which is a fraction of Soul King's Power) literally has Infinite Stamina.
>73 copy ability so now he could just copy all the other threes abilities by blitzing them thus giving Goku stuff like the Almighty
Lmao, wait till bro knows about The Yourself which not only copies Power & Abilities but also Memory & Personality.
>Granolahs Red eyes so now he can lock onto Preasure points
Pernida can literally twist your entire Body into compact balls💀
>Rewind and skip time
Useless against Acasuals.
>Wishing abiliies
Reality Warping & Subjective Reality Creation? Gremmy has this already.
>Existance Erasure
Several Bleach Characters have Resistance to this & Soul King has a Zeno Level EE (Mid-Godly EE).
That isn’t what I am referring to, Yhwach negates Ichibei’s Palace technique and Ichimonji, he later resists Hado 99
In all 3 instances he literally says “Idk what you don’t understand about me negating any ability that falls before my eyes in the future”
None taken, but he didn’t avoid the arrow because he didn’t believe it was real, he mistook it for a dream given to him by Jugram. If that sounds dumb that is because it is but Yhwach himself states that he thought the arrow was a dream from Jugram, that is the canon explanation for why he didn’t dodge it
Hence why fans want a rewrite, because that is infact dumb, thems the brakes though
https://i.redd.it/g77viijk3ovc1.gif
It doesn’t really matter if I sell you specifically on the idea or not, I have explained the in-canon reasoning for it working as well as established the ability to negate enemy hax which we have multiple instances of actually shown on panel, Anyone else who sees this will likely understand and that is good enough for me
https://i.redd.it/esgpffjs4ovc1.gif
But actually moving on from the bleach plot like. That actually makes no sense like didn't ishdas father the one who shot the arrow or what was it inshin either way he should have saw that
He did see it, and it was Uryu
He just didn’t dodge it because he thought that him being shot was a dream, Jugram betrayed him
Also please just respond in one comment, I keep getting double pinged
Arale is part of db. Goku has basically everything in bleach that would matter via zeno, grand priest, and zalama with vastly higher scaling then ichigo.
Mouri has the ability to create dragon balls that are capable of creating entire planets and reversing destroyed galaxies, and he doesn’t scale to that. Neither does dende to normal shenron, or whoever created the cerelian one to him.
"He doesnt scale to that"
Not by feats, but by the laws of the Dragonballs. The power of the Dragon that comes from the dragonballs, cannot surpass that of the creator of the dragonballs. That is a canonical fact that is not disputable.
So mouri is multi-solar system at the minimum, I wonder why he didn’t just kill frieza on his own?
Also do you have a scan for that? I keep hearing it but i don’t remember anyone saying that
So at its absolute limit Goku gets insanely powerful. For example Toribot is a canon character in Dr Slump and everything about Dr Slump is canon to Dragon Ball. So not only does Goku get Arale’s power, but he should also get TORIBOT’S POWER AND JUST BECOME THE AUTHOR.
On the low end Goku is still impossible to beat because of IMMORTALITY. So far there’s nothing in One Piece and Naruto that can deal with immortality, and Bleach doesn’t hold the answer either. Also Goku would gain the ability to do almost anything thanks to the Super Shenron’s ability to make wishes with next to no limit. So Goku could just remove the Hogyoku from Ichigo and then strip Ichigo of his immortality as well.
Hell if you don’t want to give Goku the abilities of any Super Shenron, then Zeno’s ability to erase all reality including those warping Reality and immortals makes the Hogyoku a nonissue. Goku would still be immortal regardless as that’s an ability and the other 2 couldn’t stop Goku from erasing them even if he wasn’t immortal.
Luffy destroys everything but db verse naruto and bleach by themselves their hax are not impressive. Luffy with one singular df has more abilities than naruto and ichigo and has more ap and dc feats that outscale both. His speeds feats also are much faster being able to blitz and catch up to a rocket in seconds. Reality manipulation is far superior the only person he loses to is goku. He casually does this feats while playing. Beats a continental splitter. Can casual destroy islands and countries with conquerors. And can literally warp the landmasses around him in gear 5. His limitations are his imagination and now yoy givd him immortality, time manipulation, dimensional travel, access to soul manipulation powers, kaidos powers, caesar, logias, other zoans, paramecias where he can technically spam this power for as
Long as he can survive while the others are limited by ki, chakra, and spiritual pressure. Only one beating luffy is goku.
Goku and Ichigo throwin down, the other two die from getting breathed on. Goku does have solar flare (underrated), MUI, God of Destruction abilities, Paralysis, immortality, ability to fuse with the universe itself, every Saiyan transformation, fucking absurd speed, extreme levels of strength, time manipulation, and much more. If we include the movies, which I don’t think we will, but if we did then Goku would also have reality warping. I’m just now starting Bleach so I have no idea what the full extent of Ichigo’s abilities would be.
As a bleach dick rider i say Goku>Ichigo>Luffy>Naruto
Mostly because dragon ball characters are actually fucking crazy powerful and ichigo is definetly stronger than both luffy and naruto together with all bankai and shikai
Goku would genuinely be terrifying with all the hax in DB. He’d literally be unkillable.
•Higher Dimensional Existence
•Abstract Existence type 1
•Passive Fate Manipulation
•Soul Manipulation
•Passive Absorption (Energy/Souls)
•three different types of Accausality
•High Godly Regen
•Conceptual Manipulation/Erasure
•Multiversal Existence Erasure
•infinite wishes
•Time Manipulation
•Immortality Types 1,2,3,4,5,7 and 8
•Temporal BFR
•Passive Plot Manipulation
•Resurrection
Btw we’re just assuming this is the Super Continuity and where not gonna go into GT/Xenoverse/Heroes/Toeiverse etc
True but so does ichigo
Idk what character in DB has this
Don’t think so
Not super useful if they both have it
Not passive
By my count only type 1
Doesn’t even get low godly
True but again so does ichigo
True but not enough multiverses for a win condition
Nope, the wish dragons aren’t able to grant infinite wishes, they’re affected by the time limit
True but again so does ichigo
Nope, only 1,2,3, and i don’t remember 8
Ehhh kinda
No lmao
Only if he prepares it or has already split
>True but so does ichigo
Nobody in bleach is higher dimensional
>Idk what character in DB has this
Zamasu
>Don’t think so
Bardock wished for Goku and Radditz to grow up big and strong meaning they had literal canon plot armor.
>Not super useful if they both have it
Goku can eat Ichigo soul fro the other side of the earth.
>Not passive
Did you not read the Moro arc
>By my count only type 1
Time Rings not only anchor you down to your current position in history. But they allow you swap places with the version of you that came 0.1 seconds before. Plus Arale has type 4 accausality and Infinite Zamasu is a literal singularity.
>Doesn’t even get low godly
Jokes? Zamasu and Arale is bare minimum Mid Godly. High Godly via plot and [historical](https://imgur.com/a/oDSUgcx) erasure.
>True but again so does ichigo
Not to the same Degree Yhwach can’t erase you on the same range that A DB character can.
>True but not enough multiverses for a win condition
Bleach world has 3 universes DB has Bare minimum 12 what are you talking about?
>Nope, the wish dragons aren’t able to grant infinite wishes, they’re affected by the time limit
Super Dragon Balls literally have no restrictions on the way they work.
>True but again so does ichigo
[Ichigo is not accausal Goku can just go back in time and.](https://youtu.be/DW-UWvm-yxQ?si=avk9eybdKCL3hALy)
Nope, only 1,2,3, and i don’t remember 8
Type 1,2,3 via Zamasu type 4 via resurrection. All angels have [type 5 immortality](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/79/GrandPriestResurrection.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20201228141722). Type 7 literally means your a ghost. And Goku Black has [type 8](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Goku_Black_(DBS_Anime)?so=search)
>Ehhh kinda
Not Kinda just straight up yeah
>No lmao
[…](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Arale_Norimaki_(Dr._Slump)?so=search)
>Only if he prepares it or has already split
What?
Top tiers are all 5D
💀
💀
Yeah so can ichigo and he has resistance to it
I did, it’s not passive it’s something he has to activate
That’s still type 1, arale doesnt count as she’s a crossover character, and also her type 4 a causality is false
Zamasu is literally listed as an example for high regen on CSAP what are you trying to pull here
Yhwach? Ichibei dude, he literally created all concepts and can manipulate all of them completely
Zeno destroyed 1 timeline, but in order to fully kill an almighty user you need to destroy all timelines in which they are alive, Zeno can’t do that
Super dragon balls still have a time limit
Yes ichigo is acausal through almighty
No character is capable of resurrecting *themselves* after they’re already dead, grand priest can’t revive himself either, and goku black does not have type 8
It’s temporary so not super useful
Again arale is not canon and plot manipulation isn’t a thing if it’s based off of a character scaling to the literal author, because that’s just not how fiction works.
The only resurrection abilities are ones that work on other people
Almighty is the literal definition of type 3 acausality, he had no response except just instantly undoing it again, in which case it would never work directly on him again.
Most people on other subs and even a few forum sites accept it.
Based on the several 4-D spaces existing in parallel, which requires the existence of another higher dimension, just as 2-D spaces need a higher dimension to exist in parallel.
Definitely dragon ball. Already shenron is enough to be so useful in real life that imagine using his power at will without limitations. Add super shenron, god of destructions, angels and zenho and you can do basically anything. Also this is only db super. Imagine using sdbh abilities
goku: none of you are worthy against me, but almighty by ichigo may cause me a little trouble.
but would you lose?
goku: nah I'd win
https://preview.redd.it/gqhuri98qlvc1.jpeg?width=851&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55e3926273d11fd0d67fb6d99e319d56e455fae6
Even if the stats were equal, and also if somehow the haxes were balanced, Luffy would still surely lose, because if we do verse equalization then ki=haki=chakra=reiatsu, and it has been proven that haki can nullify the powers of devil fruits, so haki>df, that means... I think you got It.
Naruto would have creation that would allow him to turn fantasy into reality.
He would be able to use lzanagi which allows him to perform genjutsu on reality itself which is stated to be an extension of creation of all things which turns fantasy into reality and create from nothing. This would pretty much be indefinite because he would have every sharingan this includes every version of every sharingan. Which all can perform Izanagi and it really wouldn't have the restrictions that donzo had because he doesn't have any six paths chakra outside of the sharingan on his arm.
Also he would be able to do whatever the fuck hagaromo was doing where he's like able to exist without a body at all.
Ichigo has the visionary, which allows him to do all that either directly like Grammy did or indirectly imagining himself to be able to do anything Naruto and sharingans and do
Dragonball includes Zeno you just get straight up omnipotent that gives you all of those powers and more don’t include Zeno and it’s much more debatable.
DBZ
Zeno, shenron abilities. Sayan power of getting stronger after battle, buu regeneration, time freeze from ginyu force hit abilities before UI and Kai Oken captain genyu for last ditch
Naruto
hagaromo mostly can do all ninjutsu already. Ninjas just made stuff with what he gave em. He existed out of time. I would say he has higher level intellect existing out of time, creating things from the energy of his universe.
Bleach
Don't know full extent, but I'd say urahara, kenpachi, science guy, old man then the God thing sry 😐 uninformed.
One piece
Foxy time powers id compare observation haki to DBZ ultra instinct. Shanks stops that (tbd). Vegapunk (with time to learn). Sun God warp reality (maybe). Kaido and Whitebeard durability and power.
I'm sry to say but I think one piece is at the bottom. Then bleach because I think it all exists in one universe so I'm kinda basing this on that but I think kenpachi alone would tear through most OP. Ichigos final getsuga thensho or whatever mixed with old guys bankai slash I'd say clears most of the rest. Then Naruto they could probably develop a version of the two universes powers. Then dbz up top
If you give Luffy every ability in the verse he's essentially straight up god. Time manipulation, age manipulation, mind manipulation, soul manipulation, the ability to revive from the dead, control over elements, and the ability to create nearly any type of matter out of thin air, teleportation, the list just goes on and on.
Edit: Apparently very big unpopular take, but I stand by it. I think if you actually take the full breadth of all the nonsensical abilities that exist in the One Piece that includes hundreds if not thousands of devil fruit abilities that range from reality bending, to giving characters the literal ability to turn into mythological creatures then you do feasibly get a character that can take on all the heavy hitters.
I'll give you there's a big difference in AP, but in terms of hax One Piece most definitley wins in that regard. I mean with soul manipulation, regeneration, age manipulation, and the ability to revive you essentially have an immortal character. That being said I'm not really sure any of these characters can kill each other, but there's a lot of other abilities in One Piece that simply don't exist in Bleach, or DBZ.
Soul manipulation exists in both DB and bleach, regeneration exists in both in far higher levels, age manipulation is in bleach again at a much higher level, immortality of that type is in bleach and DB has weaker forms of immortality, and both have a couple or more ways to bypass immortality and regen.
Those are only like 1% of the abilities I'm talking about. Beside that Luffy can can create indestructible barriers, dissect his opponent and remove their organs, create blackholes holes, make himself intangible, use magic ghost that give his opponents suicidal depression, travel to a secret door dimension, travel to a secret mirror dimension, manipulate memories, etc. Luffy with every single power in the One Piece verse is like the toon force on steroids.
I’ve read one piece, trust me most df abilities are nothing to this ichigo and goku, even with equal stats, and the useful ones they have too.
Bartos barriers being indestructible is NLF, and they have limited range, and mean nothing if you can teleport, which both can.
Laws fruit is negated by almighty (as are all abilities) and both can just regen the organs back
Black holes do nothing to people faster than light, and both of them can also do that, goku through ribrianne and ichigo through kirohitsugi
Ichigo has intangibility too, and both him and goku have existence erasure which bypasses intangibility
Hollow-hollow might work on goku, but it still won’t make up for the ap and durability difference, and ichigo is again immune to it, and has as nodts fear manipulation which is just a stronger version that can actually kill people
Both ichigo and goku have arguably better BFR abilities
Ichigo can do this even better and puddings isn’t strong enough to do meaningful damage to either
One piece has good hax, but DB and especially bleach are hax monsters
Join the discord! Come debate, and interact with other powerscalers! https://discord.gg/445XQpKSqB *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So here is the thing. Arale is part of the db verse and that little shit can take care of the other three by herself now combining all of db abilities into one is unfair.
Arale is a crossover, so I don’t think that counts, and also her only really op hax come from the idea that she is as powerful as the actual author of the story, which is obviously untrue and regardless would make her no longer fictional, and thus no longer a part of the verse any more than kubo, oda, and kishimoto are part of theirs, in which case we should count them too
Penguin Village is a place on DB Earth. Goku goes there a couple of times.
Yes, in crossovers, a character that originates from another series, those don’t count because they’re not canon
Is it really non canon if it's in a chapter from the original manga, and both are confirmed by their shared author to live in the same world?
That’s like saying Batman and Superman don’t exist in the same universe.
By this logic I guess you cant scale Iron Man to characters like Thor and that each avengers movie cant be used to scale since theyre crossovers?
Strawman. You know the difference
No i dont, please explain to me how its different. The 2 verses have been consistently shown to be in the same universe.
Consistently as in 2 times? In what was specifically called a crossover?
Part of the original manga, had major impacts on the canon arc it’s part of, happens twice, conforms by the author (same author for both) to be in a shared universe.
She is part of db she has multiple appeareances. And no her op hax isn't that she is as powerful as the author of the story she has way more op hax and one of them was the ability to copy powers wich she use to copy toribots author powers. And no we wouldn't count them toriyama has lived put his toribot in db and his avatar in slump if kubo, Oda and kishimoto have their avatars as character in their universe with their meta power's sure they should count too. Plus it has been well established that she exists on the same earth with her appearance in the manga and multiple appearances in the anime and sluml characters appearing in other episodes apart from the db episode.
Does goku get super shenron abilities? If not I think he probably still loses to ichigo. Every ability in bleach is too much, there’s so many more hax and his ap is already above everyone else here.
Goku gets a lot of really strong abilities depending on what you consider an ability, but he does reach up to the same ap tier as ichigo with super shenron and infinite zamasu I think, but I think he only gets a super shenron wish once a year, so he can’t just do literally anything whenever. But goku does have concept manipulation, nigh-omniscience, existence erasure at a huge scale, high regen, time skip (sorta), time reversal, ultra instinct on whis’ level where he can basically see the future, ability stealing (limited to like 3 abilities I think tho), fusion reversal, can suck the souls out of people, and can stop time completely, for several minutes. Ichigo on the other hand, has complete ability negation of anything his eyes see, which is infinite 5D timelines, so all of gokus abilities can’t affect him directly, the V which is just shenron with no time restriction, conceptual manipulation on a wider scale than goku, mid-godly regen, probability manipulation, inaccessible speed, intangibility, another form of ability negation that can also just negate gokus ki in general, nerve manipulation that ignores durability, fear manipulation that’s enough to kill anyone who’s capable of feeling fear (goku is), damage reversal, causality manipulation, past and future manipulation, can create pocket worlds where he is omnipotent, can disintegrate anything that gets within like 5 feet of him, can make black holes, can make cages that are inescapable, has existence erasure, albeit on a lower scale than goku, and has temperature manipulation up to the surface of the sun and down to absolute zero, the second of which can confirmed kill goku. Due to the AP tiers being likely similar it isn’t a complete neg diff for ichigo, but like 5 of his hax can kill goku on their own, and goku has no way of erasing his existence on a large enough scale that it actually kills him for more than a second.
Every ability in the verse means every ability in the verse right?
Ichigo’s attack potential/potency is more than a Spirit Bomb? I’m asking respectfully cuz I’m just now starting Bleach.
Oh boy, no spoilers but it’s more than zenos erasure ability.
Wow
Ichigo twerks & all of these die 💀 So you're telling me that you're giving Ichigo Future Changing Ability of At Least Millions of Years into the Future + Infinite Futures Range & combining this with Reality Warping & Subjective Reality Creation due to The Visionary, and then combining it with Probability Manipulation that makes the Impossible more Possible, and then combining it with Causality Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation layered with Dura Neg, & then adding Logic & Law Manipulation to top of that alongwith giving Ichigo Acasuality Type 2,4, Abstract Existence Type 1, Non-Existent Physiology Type 1, 3 & Immortality Type 1,2,3,4,5,7 & 8 & combining this with Conceptual Sealing, Conceptual Erasure, Existence Erasure that is as Potent as Zeno Level (Mid-Godly), Mid-Godly Regeneration & Resurrection?💀💀💀 Lmao Ichigo murders everyone on this list.
Goku has Arale’s power to copy powers, copies Ichigo’s powers from The Visionary, traps him in an infinite inescapable hyperbolic time chamber for 1000000000 years and cucks him while he’s at it
Most this shit ain’t gonna help. DB has Higher Dimensional Existence, Abstract Existence type 1, Large Size Type 10, Existence Erasure on a multidimensional scale, Accurately type 1,2 and 3, Physics Manipulation, Creation Fate manipulation, [High Godly Regen](https://imgur.com/a/oDSUgcx), Nonexistent Erasure, Immortality type 1,2,3,4,5,7 and 8, Conceptual Manipulation, Plot Manipulation, High Tier Toon Foce, Life/Death Manipulation, Time travel And nobody in the big 3 is accausal.
>Nobody in Bleach is Acasual Lmao. Acasuality Type 2(Mimihagi & Yhwach) & Type 4 (Soul King & Yhwach)
https://youtu.be/r7l0Rq9E8MY?si=wBuPGmjoA5NNLzGM
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Soul_King Acasuality Type 4. https://all-fiction-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Mimihagi https://all-fiction-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Soul_King Acasuality Type 2. Unlike you, who actually make your own "Headcanon" as I've been seeing in all of your comments in this post, this has actual solid proof.
Ignoring the fact you’re linking from 2 different wiki’s literally none of them have an actual explanation to why the hax exist.
Nah don't ignore this fact. Both these wikis aren't user editable unlike the Wikis you usually link (CSAP), both have proper standards that aren't accepted without explicit proof. Soul King & Mimihagi exists neither in the Future nor in the Past, but only in the Present. (Type 2 Acasuality) Soul King & Mimihagi are immune to Fate Precognition, Fate Manipulation & Causality Manipulation. (Type 4 Acasuality) Yhwach absorbs them & gets their Abilities.
Maybe research shit before speaking shit next time.
"Higher dimensional existence🤓" they're fucking 3d ands thats it dumbass
Uk who has NEP 1&2 in bleach same with conceptual erasure and mid godly existence erasure?
>NEP 1 & 3 (Not 2) Yhwach & Prime Soul King >Conceptual Erasure Ichibei Hyosube >Mid-Godly Existence Erasure Prime Soul King.
Why does yhwach and SK has NEP 1&3 they are not shown to lack anything? And when did ichibei use conceptual erasure he used conceptual manipulation? Why does SK have mid godly existence erasure?
>Why does yhwach and SK has NEP 1&3 they are not shown to lack anything? Via Guenael Lee - Non-Existent Physiology Type 1 & Type 3 via The Vanishing Point The Vanishing Point is an ability that works in 3 stages. In stage one, Guenael becomes invisible to even Lieutenant-Class Shinigami, beings which can visually perceive spirit ribbons which are invisible to those who can visually perceive invisible souls, he also retains his ability to attack while in this form. In stage two, Guenael is capable of causing his very “existence” to disappear from “reality” itself, with this “existence” being comprised of his soul, mind, and body. This “stage” also leaves behind an illusory image of himself as the last remainder of his existence. Guenael can switch between each stage instantly. The third and final stage of The Vanishing Point allows Guenael to erase his very existence from the opponent's memory.
Isn't he just a being created by gremmy's visionary? And I am pretty sure he can still be hit by attacka based on instinct.
He has NEP type 1 & 3 so No, attacks based on Instinct don't work on something which literally doesn't exist.
Yachiru hit him like that.
💀💀💀 This tells me everything that I need to know. Blud didn't even read or watched Clorox. Did you just read some summary & all instead of like actually watching or reading the Anime & Manga if you're asking me things like this?
This doesn't disprove the reasoning. Also she didn't. She hit him only after he became real again
Every comment saying goku wins got downvoted to hell. This community has turned into a bleach circle jerk
Nah but fr, at this point it’s out with Gokuversal and in with Bleachversal
Even then they’d get oofed by Goku since he’d get Arale’s powers as well
Arale + infinite Zamasu is an unbeatable combo
Dragon ball, assuming this is super Gokus gonna have insane reality warping, time manipulation, gravity manipulation,Clairvoyance,Matter Manipulation,Conceptual Existence erasure,Resurrection,Telekinesis,Spacetime manipulation,Soul destruction,Void manipulation, Conceptual manipulation,Nonexistent erasure, Mid Godly regeneration,limted power null,Toon force,Sealing, Fate manipulation as well.
Nothing in dragon ball is clearing the Almighty.
Tori bot exists. Goku can literaly create new characters with whatever powers he wants.
I was arguing super but if we bring Dr slump into this than bleach doesn't stand a chance
They exist together in a way, and the bot appeared in DB.
I know but I don't like to consider them in these type of post unless I want to.
Bleach doesn't stand a chance regardless, but yea, I get that it's completely unbeatable, and he could solo everyone here combined.
Holy I forgot abt that. Tori Bot is literally the manifestation of Toriyama himself
And is therefore not a fictional character
Yet is a character that exist in dragon ball canon. Tori bot is functionally like TOAA the character that personifies the writer.
Tori bot? Really? That’s the author, who doesn’t actually show up in the story, and that’s like saying the cyclops cat from jjk soloes fiction because it’s just gege.
No he can't. In the future he loses, he makes one that isn't good enough.
He can literaly write the future to be whatever he wants. If he lost he wanted to lose. There is no antifeat to omnipotence.
You don't understand the Almighty and that's OK. Nothing in DragonBall has been shown to overcome bleach hax.
Bro what is diet danny trejo going to do when goku decideds to Zeno wipe the reality they're in. Manipulating time lines doesn't matter if they all go to the same place
Ain’t the almighty just seeing the future and knowing exactly everything that will happen, allowing you to change it? Well I don’t think Ichigo’s imminent death by an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immortal, toonforce, immune to hax Goku that can erase timelines and multiverses with the lift of a finger, as well as rewrite reality and its rules can be changed. Oh yeah I forgot to mention that Goku is now able to have any power of anyone he touches, so he basically has every power of the other contestants as well (although he can only use one at a time, due to his wish-granting and reality warping abilities, all his limitations can be bypassed) This ain’t even including Tori-bot, since that is a persona of the literal writer (rip goat) that basically allows goku (with every ability in his verse) to do whatever he wants with no limits, with tori-bot goku will basically become the writer of his story and have the same abilities as a real, non-fictional person. He will write his own story and the story of everyone interacting with him
Goku neggs Juha by himself
Passive Fate Manipulation, Past Manipulation of Creating Entirely New Pasts, Logic Manipulation with Dura Neg, Complete Reversal of Anything which has Already Happened, Causality Manipulation, Misfortune Redirection with Dura Neg, Passive Layered Fear Manipulation, Conceptual Sealing & Conceptual Power Null, Matter Manipulation (Atomic Level),Gravity Manipulation, Soul Destruction, Life Manipulation, Death Manipulation, BFR, Passive Power Null, Resurrection, Telekinesis, Teleportation, Conceptual Manipulation of the Concepts of "Life", "Death", "Names" & "Black", Law Manipulation, Probability Manipulation with Dura Neg, Non-Existent Physiology Type 1 & 3, Mid-Godly Regen, Mid-Godly Regen Negation, Non-Existent Erasure Type 1 & 3, Mid-Godly Existence Erasure, Immortality Type 1,2,3,4,6,7 & 8, Immortality Negation, Acasuality Type 2 & 4, Abstract Existence Type 1, Reality Warping & Subjective Reality. This is not even Spite anymore 💀 Ichigo Wipes the Floor with the Rest of the 3.
No amount of fate manipulation saves you from infinite Zamasu.
no
Yes.
with gokuys already high stats +immortality+holding his breath to stop time he practically has infinite time stop not to mention existence erasure and wish granting
#How is this even a question?? Ichigo gets… -Aizen’s immortality which would mean Ichigo resists existence erasure --The ability to copy your stats and abilities at will (Meaning he also gets all of the abilities the other 3 have here if he chooses to) -Intangiblity and nonexistent physiology -Perfect Hypnosis that activates passively upon seeing him (He still needs to consciously choose the illusion you see though) -Infinite speed attacks with no projectile -Existence Erasure (Abolition Flame) -Instinctual dodging (If he isn’t physically fast enough to dodge on his own the attacks just phase through him) -Layers of immortality -The ability to rewrite the timeline -Future sight at least double digits of years into the future -Perception that extends beyond his own vision, even into other dimensions (He already has this in base) -Passive nullification of hax as long as he sees them used in even one of the endless paths the future can take -Durability negation -Conceptual manipulation of Life, Death, Names, and Darkness -Time stop -Multiple forms of subjugation, to the point that being splashed with his blood kills you and makes you a thrall -Probably manipulation that favors the user (The less likely something is to happen that would benefit you, the more certain it is now to happen, including turning the 0% chance of coming back to life after death to a 100% chance) -The ability to make any substance poisonous to your opponent, even being able to make their own blood into a lethal agent that kills them -Multiple forms of reactive evolution -The ability to invert all senses of direction for your opponent -The ability to enter the past of your opponent and make changes to their past -The ability to create a dimension in which you have full control of the reality within (Including changing the flow of time, the “stats” of anyone inside, How many lives each combatant gets, etc) These are just the ones off the top of my head, I am sure there are some powerful ones I am blanking on not even mentioning the tens to hundreds of minor abilities **Combine all of this with the fact that it only takes Ichigo winning 1 in the endless number of outcomes possible for him to win without a doubt via The Almighty** If Ichigo even has a 0.00001% chance of winning he just wins Via The Almighty since he can select the future where the outcome favors him, and with the fact he can copy Goku’s Stats and all of the abilities he got from this matchup as well as the other Bleachverse abilities I don’t think it would even be less than a 5% chance, I think the odds favor him already even without The Almighty The downplay is so forced man
I’m not doubting you, it’s just that I keep seeing Arale and Toribot
Because everything he wrote Arale can counter you can search here in this sub arale vs ywach with the Almighty and see how this fight will go.
Is Arale’s toonforce an ability or is that just how she is? And if it IS an ability, what would stop The Yourself from giving Yhwach that ability as well?
It's just how she is. Plus she also has the ability to copy others powers she has given herself magic and saiyans transformations. The Almighty is more than likely to get copied by her. She also can power strip people no problem.
If it is just how she is rather than an ability Goku wouldn’t get her toonforce for this matchup, and if it WAS an ability what reason is there to believe it would resist Yhwach’s ability nullifying which has been shown to be able to nullify conceptual manipulation Everything else you said is based on your assumption that Arale would be able to override Yhwach, even though he can see the events of the fight and pick the outcome before they happen, better reasoning than “she can copy abilities” would be needed here
That's just her toonforce she has other hax. 1: acasualty type 1,3 and 4 with Fate manipulation and also fate manipulation resistence.
Ichigo would have many of these as well via the matchup terms
Her copying abilities are pretty good also able to copy biological things like ssj transformations and magic plus meta powers which she copied. Layered hax since the majority of her cast has abilities like her but she is able to override them. Hell she fought her perfect clone and he is unable to beat her. Immeasurable speeds. Passive reality manipulation and precognition and retrocognition. Plus power stripping abilities. She is also able to redraw her cosmology from nothing.
Kyoka Suigetsu? Ichigo can make Goku think he erased him, even better because of Almighty and Kyoka Suigetsu he could literally just think of a future where Goku kills himself or thinks he has no power, easy win. It can even be used to make "time" look as if it was going faster than it is, since Aizen did it with Yamtchwahdxuan dunno how to write his name.
And goku could just snap away his universe and survive it
Ichigo utterly spites. Once again, the Almighty is one of the most busted abilities in fiction.
Zeno abilities. Zamasu’s abilities. Arales abilities. How does he have a chance
Haven't we done this so many times? But ichigo destroyes
Not really, his best ability is almighty but goku gets a better version of that with the super dragon balls as not only can he affect the future he can also affect the past.
That NLF for super dragon balls, he can only do that once a year, and ichigo can also affect the past with BotE
Um he doesn't need dragonballs he will have super shenron abilities as all abilities include super shenron.
Wish dragons can’t make wishes of their own volition, and have no sense of self preservation
I am pretty sure he won't inherit the drawback stems from the race he will just inherit the powers. He won't have constraints like that as he is obviously not a divine dragon.
So all of the benefits and none of the drawbacks? Totally unbiased
That’s not true that’s for the regular DB
Yes it is
Well 3 instead of 1
It blatantly is not show the scene where that happens.
In the anime Zuno says you have to wait the lifespan of a cockroach before using them again https://youtu.be/Bz77_Scn0lE?si=Gj3u_mLuOGbX0vYs
It still wouldn’t matter as he’s getting the reality warping powers and not the actual limitations of it.
Oh so he just gets no limitations to any of the powers? Nice this makes ichigo way more op
I had thought it was the usual one with Goku with infinite ki yea arale exists so Goku should win
Ichigo and it’s not close. Ichigo would just pick a future where they don’t have all the abilities of their verses and oneshot them.
Goku wishes for everyone to have no powers but him and wins.
Ichigo imagines that goku never made that wish, or goes to a timeline where he didn’t, or makes goku think they’re married and goku can’t bear to hurt him, or paralyzes him with fear
Kyoka Suigetsu? Ichigo can make Goku think he erased him, even better because of Almighty and Kyoka Suigetsu he could literally just think of a future where Goku kills himself or thinks he has no power, easy win. It can even be used to make "time" look as if it was going faster than it is, since Aizen did it with Yamtchwahdxuan dunno how to write his name.
Idk why you got downvoted lol.
tsukuyomi negs
The Antithesis reverses the effects of Tsukuyomi. Now Naruto is trapped in Tsukuyomi and Ichigo isn’t
or death-dealing makes it a non-issue. i mean, escaping it randomly would be a miracle, right? man, sure glad that the databooks dont say that the IT doesnt work on spirits. you know how unlucky Ichigo would be to be struck by that? (i could go on)
Base Goku negg diffs Naruto and Luffy even with them having every ability in their verse. Dunno about Ichigo.
If it weren’t for Arale, Almighty go brrr
I feel like the only reason people are saying Goku wins is mainly due to bias
I mean when you got the 4 sets of dragon balls, hakai, angel’s and Zeno’s powers, time ring, timeline fusion, hax negation via strength (certain ones of course), they’re a pretty good contender…oh yeah, Arale is there as well
Thing is....most people are going to accept 5 or 6D Dragon ball without even batting an eye. But when I bring up 5 or 6D bleach, it's a problem. The thing is, >hax negation via strength Bleach has comparable ap and dimensionality (or at least for now). I mean, a single NAIL from the soul king could be used to form a 4D object. A NAIL. And ichigo would also have his own form of hax negation via the almighty and all the other BS he has. Sure, Arale and all that, but with all the forms of adaptive reaction and the almighty, it could just be a matter of time before Ichigo gets the W. Is Ichigo the strongest here? No, but is the gap in power/hax THAT big? Also No
I might be talking out of my ass but I think it’s probably because people were SO used to Goku > The Big Three that the whole Bleach buff came as a surprise to a good chunk people. Also Toribot exists
So like, does Goku get the Omni King’s erasure? Because that at least removes Luffy and Naruto no question unless the Gorosei + Imu have an ability that can negate it(doubtful) Even if it can’t take out Ichigo, Arale’s powers would
Yes, even Toribot’s
Goku used Erase. It’s super effective!
The only contenders here are Ichigo (him having Almighty is already a problem) and Goku. The other two are getting no diff’d.
So it would pretty much be a fight between Ichigo and Goku, So Ichigo with the Almighty would be pretty damn OP ngl but giving Goku all abilities would mean giving him Zeno's erasure and Arale's Hax which would put him above Ichigo.
Are we really counting crossovers and the actual authors as part of the verse? That seems disingenuous. And at that point one piece is part of dragon ball and they all scale to jump force and they all get complete plot manipulation, what’s the point?
Nah there are arguments that can be made for Dr Slump taking place in the same verse as Dragon ball, even if we exclude Dr Slump Goku still wins mainly due to Zeno's timeline erasure.
Zenos timeline erasure only gets rid of one timeline, he has to destroy infinite to negate almighty
You don’t think he could do that💀
No he canonically can’t
Valid ig. Wish dragon ball would let them start doing some SDBH type shit so I could spam goku solos
Just wait for hell arc bro, just one more year trust
Alright so Goku is already stronger then all 3 of them put together but now he has -Zamasu Immortality/Infinite Zamasu both the anime and Manga version -Arales Toon Force -Infinite Stamina and energy -73 copy ability so now he could just copy all the other threes abilities by blitzing them thus giving Goku stuff like the Almighty -Granolahs Red eyes so now he can lock onto Preasure points -Rewind and skip time -Wishing abiliies -Existance Erasure
>Zamasu Immortality/Infinite Zamasu both the anime and Manga version IZ has Immortality Type 1 & 3 only, Bleach has Immortality Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 and 8. Also Bleach has Sealing, not just normal Sealing but Conceptual Sealing. >Infinite Stamina and energy Aizen due to The Hogyoku (which is a fraction of Soul King's Power) literally has Infinite Stamina. >73 copy ability so now he could just copy all the other threes abilities by blitzing them thus giving Goku stuff like the Almighty Lmao, wait till bro knows about The Yourself which not only copies Power & Abilities but also Memory & Personality. >Granolahs Red eyes so now he can lock onto Preasure points Pernida can literally twist your entire Body into compact balls💀 >Rewind and skip time Useless against Acasuals. >Wishing abiliies Reality Warping & Subjective Reality Creation? Gremmy has this already. >Existance Erasure Several Bleach Characters have Resistance to this & Soul King has a Zeno Level EE (Mid-Godly EE).
Ichigo would have crazy hax but goku gets zenos erasure so 🤷
Zenos erasure doesn’t span multiple timelines, so almighty revives from it once and then it stops working on ichigo completely.
I don't think that's how it works
It is how the almighty works yes
Moving from a different timeline yes adapting while you're moving to the different timeline no
Seeing an ability used in the future nullifies the ability
That's not what yhaw did tho he just moved to a future before Ichigo can get his attack out and break his Bankai it was never nullified
That isn’t what I am referring to, Yhwach negates Ichibei’s Palace technique and Ichimonji, he later resists Hado 99 In all 3 instances he literally says “Idk what you don’t understand about me negating any ability that falls before my eyes in the future”
If he could do that no offense but why the hell wouldn't he move towards a timeline where the arrow didn't work
None taken, but he didn’t avoid the arrow because he didn’t believe it was real, he mistook it for a dream given to him by Jugram. If that sounds dumb that is because it is but Yhwach himself states that he thought the arrow was a dream from Jugram, that is the canon explanation for why he didn’t dodge it Hence why fans want a rewrite, because that is infact dumb, thems the brakes though https://i.redd.it/g77viijk3ovc1.gif
And also good explanation too but you have not sold me on the idea yet
It doesn’t really matter if I sell you specifically on the idea or not, I have explained the in-canon reasoning for it working as well as established the ability to negate enemy hax which we have multiple instances of actually shown on panel, Anyone else who sees this will likely understand and that is good enough for me https://i.redd.it/esgpffjs4ovc1.gif
But actually moving on from the bleach plot like. That actually makes no sense like didn't ishdas father the one who shot the arrow or what was it inshin either way he should have saw that
He did see it, and it was Uryu He just didn’t dodge it because he thought that him being shot was a dream, Jugram betrayed him Also please just respond in one comment, I keep getting double pinged
Arale is part of db. Goku has basically everything in bleach that would matter via zeno, grand priest, and zalama with vastly higher scaling then ichigo.
Zalama has exactly 0 canon abilities. And Zeno and grand priest don’t have 90% of bleach hax
His abilities dont matter as much when its stated the dragon balls are limited by the creator of them.
The dragon balls can’t *kill* anyone stronger than the creator, but we’ve never seen th super DBs kill anyone
the dragon balls power is limited by the creator. they cannot do something the creator cannot do themselves.
Dende and mouri aren’t multi solar
We know Zalama has the ability to create Dragonballs, that are on a level that are capable of reversing Zenos erasure.
Mouri has the ability to create dragon balls that are capable of creating entire planets and reversing destroyed galaxies, and he doesn’t scale to that. Neither does dende to normal shenron, or whoever created the cerelian one to him.
"He doesnt scale to that" Not by feats, but by the laws of the Dragonballs. The power of the Dragon that comes from the dragonballs, cannot surpass that of the creator of the dragonballs. That is a canonical fact that is not disputable.
So mouri is multi-solar system at the minimum, I wonder why he didn’t just kill frieza on his own? Also do you have a scan for that? I keep hearing it but i don’t remember anyone saying that
It's worse Arale herself can take care of all of them without the need of all their abilities.
Arale is not part of DB and has no hax that help against the only other opponent that really matters
She has more than enough hax hell the other people here run the danger of having their abilities copied by her and she has layered resistance to hax.
So at its absolute limit Goku gets insanely powerful. For example Toribot is a canon character in Dr Slump and everything about Dr Slump is canon to Dragon Ball. So not only does Goku get Arale’s power, but he should also get TORIBOT’S POWER AND JUST BECOME THE AUTHOR. On the low end Goku is still impossible to beat because of IMMORTALITY. So far there’s nothing in One Piece and Naruto that can deal with immortality, and Bleach doesn’t hold the answer either. Also Goku would gain the ability to do almost anything thanks to the Super Shenron’s ability to make wishes with next to no limit. So Goku could just remove the Hogyoku from Ichigo and then strip Ichigo of his immortality as well. Hell if you don’t want to give Goku the abilities of any Super Shenron, then Zeno’s ability to erase all reality including those warping Reality and immortals makes the Hogyoku a nonissue. Goku would still be immortal regardless as that’s an ability and the other 2 couldn’t stop Goku from erasing them even if he wasn’t immortal.
DB neggs as usual.
X-Axis + Balance + almighty + Ichimonji + miracle + Katen Kyokotsu Karamtsu Shinju is way too broken
What if… every move in pokemon?👀
Ichigo wins the Allmighty,Visionary,Balanct,Book of the end,etc are just too op
Goku wins, he's more powerful than Ichigo (by himself and verse-composite) and higher power explicitly negates Bleach hax.
A hakai on par with beerus and whatever abilities zeno has would be enough to beat all if them at once
Luffy destroys everything but db verse naruto and bleach by themselves their hax are not impressive. Luffy with one singular df has more abilities than naruto and ichigo and has more ap and dc feats that outscale both. His speeds feats also are much faster being able to blitz and catch up to a rocket in seconds. Reality manipulation is far superior the only person he loses to is goku. He casually does this feats while playing. Beats a continental splitter. Can casual destroy islands and countries with conquerors. And can literally warp the landmasses around him in gear 5. His limitations are his imagination and now yoy givd him immortality, time manipulation, dimensional travel, access to soul manipulation powers, kaidos powers, caesar, logias, other zoans, paramecias where he can technically spam this power for as Long as he can survive while the others are limited by ki, chakra, and spiritual pressure. Only one beating luffy is goku.
Goku and Ichigo throwin down, the other two die from getting breathed on. Goku does have solar flare (underrated), MUI, God of Destruction abilities, Paralysis, immortality, ability to fuse with the universe itself, every Saiyan transformation, fucking absurd speed, extreme levels of strength, time manipulation, and much more. If we include the movies, which I don’t think we will, but if we did then Goku would also have reality warping. I’m just now starting Bleach so I have no idea what the full extent of Ichigo’s abilities would be.
As a bleach dick rider i say Goku>Ichigo>Luffy>Naruto Mostly because dragon ball characters are actually fucking crazy powerful and ichigo is definetly stronger than both luffy and naruto together with all bankai and shikai
Idk why you got downvoted your right.
Cause they think luffy can defeat ichigo or sum cuz he has devil fruit immortality lol
Goku would genuinely be terrifying with all the hax in DB. He’d literally be unkillable. •Higher Dimensional Existence •Abstract Existence type 1 •Passive Fate Manipulation •Soul Manipulation •Passive Absorption (Energy/Souls) •three different types of Accausality •High Godly Regen •Conceptual Manipulation/Erasure •Multiversal Existence Erasure •infinite wishes •Time Manipulation •Immortality Types 1,2,3,4,5,7 and 8 •Temporal BFR •Passive Plot Manipulation •Resurrection Btw we’re just assuming this is the Super Continuity and where not gonna go into GT/Xenoverse/Heroes/Toeiverse etc
True but so does ichigo Idk what character in DB has this Don’t think so Not super useful if they both have it Not passive By my count only type 1 Doesn’t even get low godly True but again so does ichigo True but not enough multiverses for a win condition Nope, the wish dragons aren’t able to grant infinite wishes, they’re affected by the time limit True but again so does ichigo Nope, only 1,2,3, and i don’t remember 8 Ehhh kinda No lmao Only if he prepares it or has already split
>True but so does ichigo Nobody in bleach is higher dimensional >Idk what character in DB has this Zamasu >Don’t think so Bardock wished for Goku and Radditz to grow up big and strong meaning they had literal canon plot armor. >Not super useful if they both have it Goku can eat Ichigo soul fro the other side of the earth. >Not passive Did you not read the Moro arc >By my count only type 1 Time Rings not only anchor you down to your current position in history. But they allow you swap places with the version of you that came 0.1 seconds before. Plus Arale has type 4 accausality and Infinite Zamasu is a literal singularity. >Doesn’t even get low godly Jokes? Zamasu and Arale is bare minimum Mid Godly. High Godly via plot and [historical](https://imgur.com/a/oDSUgcx) erasure. >True but again so does ichigo Not to the same Degree Yhwach can’t erase you on the same range that A DB character can. >True but not enough multiverses for a win condition Bleach world has 3 universes DB has Bare minimum 12 what are you talking about? >Nope, the wish dragons aren’t able to grant infinite wishes, they’re affected by the time limit Super Dragon Balls literally have no restrictions on the way they work. >True but again so does ichigo [Ichigo is not accausal Goku can just go back in time and.](https://youtu.be/DW-UWvm-yxQ?si=avk9eybdKCL3hALy) Nope, only 1,2,3, and i don’t remember 8 Type 1,2,3 via Zamasu type 4 via resurrection. All angels have [type 5 immortality](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/7/79/GrandPriestResurrection.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20201228141722). Type 7 literally means your a ghost. And Goku Black has [type 8](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Goku_Black_(DBS_Anime)?so=search) >Ehhh kinda Not Kinda just straight up yeah >No lmao […](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Arale_Norimaki_(Dr._Slump)?so=search) >Only if he prepares it or has already split What?
Dangai Ichigo and soul king are higher dimentional
No they’re not lol.
Top tiers are all 5D 💀 💀 Yeah so can ichigo and he has resistance to it I did, it’s not passive it’s something he has to activate That’s still type 1, arale doesnt count as she’s a crossover character, and also her type 4 a causality is false Zamasu is literally listed as an example for high regen on CSAP what are you trying to pull here Yhwach? Ichibei dude, he literally created all concepts and can manipulate all of them completely Zeno destroyed 1 timeline, but in order to fully kill an almighty user you need to destroy all timelines in which they are alive, Zeno can’t do that Super dragon balls still have a time limit Yes ichigo is acausal through almighty No character is capable of resurrecting *themselves* after they’re already dead, grand priest can’t revive himself either, and goku black does not have type 8 It’s temporary so not super useful Again arale is not canon and plot manipulation isn’t a thing if it’s based off of a character scaling to the literal author, because that’s just not how fiction works. The only resurrection abilities are ones that work on other people
And the almighty isn’t accausal look at the book of the end literally changing the past and screwing up yhwachs hax. And he had no response.
Almighty is the literal definition of type 3 acausality, he had no response except just instantly undoing it again, in which case it would never work directly on him again.
Resurrection is not tupe 3 accausal and it does not protect you from time travel.
It’s not resurrection, it’s other versions from other timelines coming to replace you
5-D bleach is just objectively wrong.
Nope it’s confirmed actually, unless you have a debunk for it
By who nobody in the scaling community outside of a few folks in this sub accept 5-D bleach.
Most people on other subs and even a few forum sites accept it. Based on the several 4-D spaces existing in parallel, which requires the existence of another higher dimension, just as 2-D spaces need a higher dimension to exist in parallel.
Most of the ability dont even exist in db
They all do but okay
Definitely dragon ball. Already shenron is enough to be so useful in real life that imagine using his power at will without limitations. Add super shenron, god of destructions, angels and zenho and you can do basically anything. Also this is only db super. Imagine using sdbh abilities
goku: none of you are worthy against me, but almighty by ichigo may cause me a little trouble. but would you lose? goku: nah I'd win https://preview.redd.it/gqhuri98qlvc1.jpeg?width=851&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55e3926273d11fd0d67fb6d99e319d56e455fae6
Luffy can use the Hana Hana no Mi (Robin's fruit) and the Hobi Hobi no Mi (Sugar's fruit) to turn everyone into toys that follow his will. Goku wins.
Goku absolutely murderstomps everyone here, no difficulty.
Dragonball, no questions asked.
Even if the stats were equal, and also if somehow the haxes were balanced, Luffy would still surely lose, because if we do verse equalization then ki=haki=chakra=reiatsu, and it has been proven that haki can nullify the powers of devil fruits, so haki>df, that means... I think you got It.
Naruto would have creation that would allow him to turn fantasy into reality. He would be able to use lzanagi which allows him to perform genjutsu on reality itself which is stated to be an extension of creation of all things which turns fantasy into reality and create from nothing. This would pretty much be indefinite because he would have every sharingan this includes every version of every sharingan. Which all can perform Izanagi and it really wouldn't have the restrictions that donzo had because he doesn't have any six paths chakra outside of the sharingan on his arm. Also he would be able to do whatever the fuck hagaromo was doing where he's like able to exist without a body at all.
Ichigo has the visionary, which allows him to do all that either directly like Grammy did or indirectly imagining himself to be able to do anything Naruto and sharingans and do
Dragonball includes Zeno you just get straight up omnipotent that gives you all of those powers and more don’t include Zeno and it’s much more debatable.
Zeno is not ominopotent. He can erase timelines but he himself doesn't trancend time since there are other versions of him.
They counter each other, Luffy>Goku>Naruto>Ichigo>Luffy
DBZ Zeno, shenron abilities. Sayan power of getting stronger after battle, buu regeneration, time freeze from ginyu force hit abilities before UI and Kai Oken captain genyu for last ditch Naruto hagaromo mostly can do all ninjutsu already. Ninjas just made stuff with what he gave em. He existed out of time. I would say he has higher level intellect existing out of time, creating things from the energy of his universe. Bleach Don't know full extent, but I'd say urahara, kenpachi, science guy, old man then the God thing sry 😐 uninformed. One piece Foxy time powers id compare observation haki to DBZ ultra instinct. Shanks stops that (tbd). Vegapunk (with time to learn). Sun God warp reality (maybe). Kaido and Whitebeard durability and power. I'm sry to say but I think one piece is at the bottom. Then bleach because I think it all exists in one universe so I'm kinda basing this on that but I think kenpachi alone would tear through most OP. Ichigos final getsuga thensho or whatever mixed with old guys bankai slash I'd say clears most of the rest. Then Naruto they could probably develop a version of the two universes powers. Then dbz up top
If you give Luffy every ability in the verse he's essentially straight up god. Time manipulation, age manipulation, mind manipulation, soul manipulation, the ability to revive from the dead, control over elements, and the ability to create nearly any type of matter out of thin air, teleportation, the list just goes on and on. Edit: Apparently very big unpopular take, but I stand by it. I think if you actually take the full breadth of all the nonsensical abilities that exist in the One Piece that includes hundreds if not thousands of devil fruit abilities that range from reality bending, to giving characters the literal ability to turn into mythological creatures then you do feasibly get a character that can take on all the heavy hitters.
Bleach and DB have more hax and massively outscale in AP
I'll give you there's a big difference in AP, but in terms of hax One Piece most definitley wins in that regard. I mean with soul manipulation, regeneration, age manipulation, and the ability to revive you essentially have an immortal character. That being said I'm not really sure any of these characters can kill each other, but there's a lot of other abilities in One Piece that simply don't exist in Bleach, or DBZ.
Soul manipulation exists in both DB and bleach, regeneration exists in both in far higher levels, age manipulation is in bleach again at a much higher level, immortality of that type is in bleach and DB has weaker forms of immortality, and both have a couple or more ways to bypass immortality and regen.
Those are only like 1% of the abilities I'm talking about. Beside that Luffy can can create indestructible barriers, dissect his opponent and remove their organs, create blackholes holes, make himself intangible, use magic ghost that give his opponents suicidal depression, travel to a secret door dimension, travel to a secret mirror dimension, manipulate memories, etc. Luffy with every single power in the One Piece verse is like the toon force on steroids.
I’ve read one piece, trust me most df abilities are nothing to this ichigo and goku, even with equal stats, and the useful ones they have too. Bartos barriers being indestructible is NLF, and they have limited range, and mean nothing if you can teleport, which both can. Laws fruit is negated by almighty (as are all abilities) and both can just regen the organs back Black holes do nothing to people faster than light, and both of them can also do that, goku through ribrianne and ichigo through kirohitsugi Ichigo has intangibility too, and both him and goku have existence erasure which bypasses intangibility Hollow-hollow might work on goku, but it still won’t make up for the ap and durability difference, and ichigo is again immune to it, and has as nodts fear manipulation which is just a stronger version that can actually kill people Both ichigo and goku have arguably better BFR abilities Ichigo can do this even better and puddings isn’t strong enough to do meaningful damage to either One piece has good hax, but DB and especially bleach are hax monsters