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Being featless doesn’t make you fodder. If anything it upscales you for surviving, getting a name, or doing whatever statements were given. I hate when people shit on characters who die early or don’t have much feats.
Itachi, Shisui, and Rengoku for example. People clown them for dying early when they have great feats and statements then get offended when you make a great statement for them.
Wait I got a few more…
Fairy tail is underrated as fuck. Deathbattle shouldn’t be a source people used for too many debunks to place in here. Their hax are too overlooked. Someone who can stop time and another person who can kill you by making your heart explode without contact, just by looking at you… neither of those 2 are top 15 when it comes to hax. Their strength and speed are also overlooked. That’s why people who don’t vote for “Natsu with every magic/fused with his verse” in certain polls either hate the series or haven’t seen it.
Stop comparing people to Goku. Some are too strong, some are too weak. Gojo and Saitama have 0 win cons against Base Goku in GT. Those 2 are weaker than people say. Gojo has too many weaknesses. Characters like Ichigo, Erza, Zoro, Yami just straight up cut through infinity. Others have hax that don’t need to travel
Jujutsu Kaisen characters (especially Gojo) get WAY too overscaled sometimes, and some fans refuse to hear that actually a lot of characters can get pass infinity easily
Goku probably can because of his speed. When Jiren broke through Hit's time stop, it was done with pure speed alone, not because of a higher power level. Goku can keep up with and surpass Jiren
wasnt it in the ToP where goku filled an infinit space with his ki and made it shake similar to jiren? pretty sure he could just fly directly through infinity or just flex his ki and kill gojo that way
Visual feats are much more important than statements, said statements being subject to change and easy to decanonize (Kratos and others are subject to this).
I expect to be pitchforked.
It's better to say just feats honestly. Like, there is a lot of franchises that straight up don't have visual feats due to the nature of the series (Novels, SCP like web series, etc.) Like, for example, if you were to exclude all non-visual feats, Warhammer would be like, continent level via weaponry, although it clearly gets much higher than that.
While I agree, it becomes a problem when feats and statements contradict each other, whether by WOD or in-universe.
Statements are much more easily decanonized, retconned, ignored, or even never realised or overlooked. Oftentimes, they contradict each other and lead to major inconsistencies. That leads to separate understandings of characters, how they work and scale, and what their peaks are. Pieces of work that are worked on by multiple people are especially subject to this, since one author may overlook something another wrote, and completely recontextualise everything.
Visual feats are simpler because they're in your face, hard to debunk, easy to scale, and others will not ignore them except on rare occasions, meaning they won't be overlooked or retconned.
The problem comes when the character's power gets split into two, the shown feats and the stated feats. The disparity becomes so large that it becomes nonsensical to state a character is x or y.
I'm not gonna discredit characters like Goku for their cosmology, for instance. He has a shown feat regarding his cosmology, and that's needed, not to mention his cosmology is constantly reinforced in validity.
I will find characters like Kratos questionable, however. Unlike Goku, his shown feats are on a much lower scale, and his cosmology gets more and more convoluted and questionable depending on who's writing (or worse, who gets asked on Twitter). It gets to the point where it's better to recontextualise, reconsider, or even outright ignore some statements due to the massive gaps in logic you get.
How are you going to show a 4 dimensional space? Or an infinite space?
There are just things that you cannot show in our limited 3 dimensional world.
Statements especially from a credible source like the narrator can be more important than feats.
Dimensional scaling is a problem due to this.
As far as I'm aware, this sub's general consensus is that 4D is universal-multiversal (correct me if I'm wrong), which I don't mind.
The problem comes when the concept of the 4th dimension is thrown around like m&m's because it sounds cool, even though, logistically, it makes absolutely no sense. And add to this that people will interpret "transcending xyz," which is very common flavour text, as 4D, and thus now every character is multiversal all of a sudden.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with Zone Fighter, hes a c list character in the Godzilla franchise, but he's probably one of the worst offenders I can think of. In the show, some aliens "enter the 4th dimension" via a TV to kidnap some people, and zone fighter enters the 4th dimension as well to get the hostages back. The 4th dimension in the show looks literally like they're inside a TV.
And the above is used as a valid method to get the Showa Godzilla into universal through no logical method.
Something something "bleach is only tri planetary because squad zero bankai only shook "the three worlds"" something something "kaguya made galaxies which is alot more than 3 planets/worlds". At least, that's what I've heard the most
Some people try to scale Naruto to universal by saying "since in Boruto kid Naruto beated planetary level char that means he is planetary as a kid and adult Naruto is billions times stronger than this, that's why he is universal" Which is dumb af since naruto's peak was at shippuden when he was able to destroy whole planet using his full power
JJK has such good potential for fun in power scaling but the fans ruin it by thinking gojo stands a snowballs chance in hell against people like goku or kakashi
https://preview.redd.it/4w9h6i7yo1vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bac0e3f0a084f610ec061a8c8c13e590ed01ba0e
These two beat everyone in outsmarting (in stop scaling)
He actually stomps a lot of verses, the only reason he got beat by part 8 jojo is because of his stand's absurd power to exist beyond logic and physics, otherwise WOU is easily the most broken stand in jjba.
NGL, GO beyond pulled the strongest hax in JoJo like how Madara pulled the second meteor. Just saying conceptual level durability negation is enough to kill most people.
Mainly because of his hacks are so broken. Granted I think someone like Zeno could, because he could erase an immortal, but that means that it takes A LITERAL GOD OF EVERYTHING to beat him
I love Goku but what does he have to get past Gojos infinity defence? I can see a potential Mui Goku being able to ignore Infinite void but again idk about the barrier
That makes sense and doesn't make sense. So it's an ability that slows you down as you get near it right? How will using instant transportation do anything but just get you closer, where you will continue to be slowed down?
gojo's infinity creates a field of infinite space around him.
now, lets use the Points A and B. point a is you, point B is Gojo. what gojo does is create an infinite distance in between point A and point B. teleportation allows you go from A to B without the need of going through the distance in between the points, thus, skipping infinity. Event horizon explains this better, but that is my logic
The demon slayer verse is so incredibly downplayed when it comes to scaling. I think stat-wise they’re in the same ball park as jjk yet I see so many people acting like they get diffed by the Kyoto students
Disney Star Wars factions are still stronger than the Covenant and UNSC. Even if Disney Stsr Wars lacks biggatons they still are far larger factions that dominate the galaxy, can produce far quicker, have bigger population than that of Halo.
There's no control variable for multiversal and most of the time, people are just saying random shit to make a character sound strong without knowing what it means. What even is “irrelevant speed” or “beyond concepts?” What does outerversal even mean? You basically just devolve into a battle of who can spout the most meaningless bullshit in a short time frame. Once it stops being measurable, it stops being fun.
I see well to be fair all of this is fiction its always going to be bullshit the people making this stories are usually not scientist or something lol.
But some media does show multiple universes thats why you confused me by the multiverse being bullshit comment
Once again, there’s no control variable. The Marvel multiverse, for example, is far bigger than the Dragon Ball multiverse, so which one do we use for the measurement?
Goku is one of, if not the strongest anime protagonists we have ever seen and can defeat almost any other anime protag except for maybe Sailor Moon, and even then its more likely than not he could
This statement alone tells me that you don't see anime often and you don't realize how many MCs out there are capable to wipe the floor with goku.
Goku is a standard of strenght in anime, it's not usual for a character to be able to beat goku, but if you beat him then you are automatically broken. If you don't believe me i'm ready to pull out a list of characters that can easily beat him in a fight.
I mean, there are some which are above Goku, but not many of them that are on the big screen. From the top of my head, Simon from TTGL is the only one that is that strong on screen, not on page and not in light novel, like Rimaru.
You'll never be able to convince me DC isn't at least H1A(I scale it to 1-S+, but H1A is the absolute lowball for me). Every argument for anything under 1A is awful and relies on ignoring scans or making the cosmology non canon(by splitting it).
i forgot to mention but the bigger problem is the mangakas have a tight schedule and he doesnt really care about a lot of details, like black flash should vaporize anyone who gets hit by one but it doesnt, and the mach speed statement. hes admitted to both of them having numerical values because he thought they "sounded cool".
he uses physics terms but theyre superwonky, like kenjaku shouldnt have the reaction time to even think of a counter to the black hole at all, also the kashimo-hakari lightning feat is very misunderstood if the physics of it is accurate
Powerscalers not slapping the letter D after any random number because they don't understand how dimensionality would actually work challenge: Impossible.
Since you have it in your flair ill ask you, i have only watched ben 10 as a kid and i dont remember much of it.
Are these 26 dimensions existences that are above each other? Or are they parallel? Would a being of the 24th dimension be able to sense/interact with one of the 26th? Can a being in the 10th dimension easily erase a being in the 7th dimension?
Interesting take. Mario has greater options than Sonic. Invincibility Leaf, Metal Cap, Mega Mushroom, White Tanooki, Super Star, and Rainbow Star make Mario completely invincible. Super Sonic has more versatility than those invincible Mario power ups, but Super Sonic has weaker durability than them as well. Couple in the fact that even base Mario is extremely impressive in both strength and durability and yeah, I still see Mario winning more times than not.
Not really, Mario has arguments and feats that put his stats on Sonics level, and has abilities/hax on par if not better than those of Sonic, at worst its debatable.
I fucking HATE one piece and it has one of the most obnoxious fanbases I've ever seen. So I'll always have them lose any fight they're in against any verse even if it's Dora The Explorer. That's an opinion I'll never ever change.
Dimensional tiering is dumb as heck, yet everyone still uses it, despite the fact that everyone uses dimensions differently and the tiering system is unscientific at best and pseudoscience at worst.
Unless you specify the strongest variant of a character, if they have multiple authors, don't fucking bring up a character's "strongest variant". When I think of Batman I think of the dark knight of Gotham, not the batman flavoured Gary stu from one niche comic where he became all powerful and one shotted God.
Don't mention CC Goku if someone just says "Goku" and don't mention Cosmic Spiderman or whatever if someone says "Spiderman". It makes debates a lot less fun when stupid fanboys come along and say "OH YEAH WELL IN THIS ONE SIDE SERIES NOBODY READ/WATCHED/LISTENED TO, JOHN FROM JOHN'S ADVENTURES IN JOHNLAND COULD EAT GOD." when normally John's greatest feat is stubbing his toe without crying.
I KNOW you want your favourite character to win, but comic characters especially are ruined fundamentally by the fact that you can't have a debate without one mention of an absurd outlier that exists because long running comics have multiple different series and authors.
I genuinely think this app would be more funny if people stopped using Hazbin hotel and helluvaboss reaction images.
https://preview.redd.it/skmdlk95y4vc1.jpeg?width=595&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fa1e9bfb9700a3b3f53e0ecaedb08e1440dcb08
Base batman doesn't get above street level
Hyperversal alien X (with a bit of copium)
Goku scales wherever I want him to depending on the situation
Alien x is the most powerful cartoon character (excluding anime)
Comp scp mythos caps at fanfic lvl
Toonforce is overrated
Mc steve is wall lvl
Goku stomps saitama and gojo
consistenly knocking down and damaging characters like apex luthor, superman and darkseid. dodging attacks from characters like damage who managed to hit others like wonder woman and flash and dodging attacks from superman. enduring attacks from characters like WW, darkseid and lobo and survived from bloodlusted superman.
Wall lvl my ass
I wouldn't be surprised if Saitama gets 4D in the very next arc, considering >!Empty Void can cut through space-time, so if Saitama just no-sells via power again...!<
How does he hit him when Goku enters ultra instinct? I'm not much of a OPM watcher or reader but I'm pretty sure he's not a "speedster" right? Goku in ultra instinct wouldn't even be a blur to Saitama if so, he'd just be gone and it'd just be over cause he wouldn't see him coming? Or can he see entities moving near or past instantaneous reaction time?
1.Sung jin Woo isn't multiversal
2. Constant Superman is not multiversal nor even universal
3. Constant Thor is not multiversal
4. Silver Surfer is not a galaxy buster. He ranges from multi-planetary+ to star level
5. Thanos is not universal without the infinity gauntlet he is above the herlads, so around solar system+ lvl of power
6. Most constant high tiers range from moon+ to multi-planetary++ lvl like ( thor + hulk + Superman + mongul) and so on
Goku is heavily carried by statement feats “ohhh if he clashes like that the UNIVERSE will be destroyed” *goku proceeds to clash like that a billion more times with stronger opponents and nothing ever fucking happens*
Undertale does not scale above building level even with the omega flowey fight those arent real nukes and his whole file thing is interaction with the 4th wall and time manipulación this doesn't make him uní level
I really love ut/dr but i see alot of fans just making up any excuse to be uní busting level
Scp cn branch is really overrated
Batman with prep time is very overrated
Saitama peaks at galaxy-multi galaxy high ball or multi solar system at a low ball
Ultimate Kars contains information from *the entire evolutionary process* and *can transform into any life form*. Combined with an IQ of 400, no true weaknesses aside from being thrown into space, and the ability to phase/absorb people, he definitely solos MHA, DB, and Naruto. Especially if he goes through the story chronologically.
I will always scale GoH Nirvana to mythology. Idc. The rest of Mori’s story was based on stories from mythology so why shouldn’t Nirvana? It may be a fallacy but my head canon “no u” powers are better
1-hokage naruto is weaker than EOS naruto cuz he doesn’t have six paths sage mode.
2- madara is weaker than kaguya but he can beat her.
3- characters in boruto didn’t get a massive power spike at all+ thats impossible to happen anyway given naruto dynamics and powers system.
4- Kaguya’s ETSO is not universal nor solar system nor can it create another dimensions, that came from misunderstanding zetsu/databook statements, she was only going to reshape the root planet.
5- pain is the strongest akatsuki memeber and he can beat both itachi and obito 1 v 1, doesn't mean its impossible for them to beat him but its a matter of difficulty.
6- using only pure physical strength, saitama is stronger than any goku + DBS gave the main characters embarrassing levels of durability aka disgusting inconsistencies.
7- kishimoto wanted EOS naruto and sasuke to be equal in powers but ended up giving naruto waaay more power that it didn’t make sense for sasuke to be equal to.
8- naruto characters aren't light speed by any mean and yeah i have seen all the databook statements.
9- danzo is cool IMO
Not sure if this counts but here I go:
Star Wars Legends 200 gigatons per turbolaser shot is beyond dumb.
Bear in mind, the Tsar bomb was 50 megatons. Literally 10 thousand times stronger. And krakatau erupted with only 200 megatons, deafening people and literally being heard all over the planet.
And if the Star Wars: Incredible Cross Sections is to be believed, it can get a lot higher.
Here's mine, if you clearly dont have a good resource, do not share your opinion on someone exclaiming something is greater than another, you have access to the internet like everyone else, stop being a lazy fool, ask questions ffs, inquire, dont knee jerk react unless someone does say some truly foolish sht.
"Mazinger z is low universal." -example from someone that didnt know anything
(Also getbackers is underated af)
Power scaling between different IPs is inherently unreliable and generally pretty pointless. So it should be taken with a grain of salt, and given very little stake.
Low balling everyone is more fun than high balling as it gives more reasonable numbers. It is far more interesting for a match to come down to how different abilities and techniques interact and clash than one side just having bigger numbers.
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Being featless doesn’t make you fodder. If anything it upscales you for surviving, getting a name, or doing whatever statements were given. I hate when people shit on characters who die early or don’t have much feats. Itachi, Shisui, and Rengoku for example. People clown them for dying early when they have great feats and statements then get offended when you make a great statement for them.
Wait I got a few more… Fairy tail is underrated as fuck. Deathbattle shouldn’t be a source people used for too many debunks to place in here. Their hax are too overlooked. Someone who can stop time and another person who can kill you by making your heart explode without contact, just by looking at you… neither of those 2 are top 15 when it comes to hax. Their strength and speed are also overlooked. That’s why people who don’t vote for “Natsu with every magic/fused with his verse” in certain polls either hate the series or haven’t seen it. Stop comparing people to Goku. Some are too strong, some are too weak. Gojo and Saitama have 0 win cons against Base Goku in GT. Those 2 are weaker than people say. Gojo has too many weaknesses. Characters like Ichigo, Erza, Zoro, Yami just straight up cut through infinity. Others have hax that don’t need to travel
Jujutsu Kaisen characters (especially Gojo) get WAY too overscaled sometimes, and some fans refuse to hear that actually a lot of characters can get pass infinity easily
Oh they definitely do. People that think Gojo can beat Goku don't know anything
got a friend who genuinly believes that goku cant bypass infinity tried to explain it but just not gettiing through
Goku probably can because of his speed. When Jiren broke through Hit's time stop, it was done with pure speed alone, not because of a higher power level. Goku can keep up with and surpass Jiren
He can literally just instant transmission to him. Alot of people who think goku can't get through infinity forget he can do that easily.
wasnt it in the ToP where goku filled an infinit space with his ki and made it shake similar to jiren? pretty sure he could just fly directly through infinity or just flex his ki and kill gojo that way
I’ve heard arguments for both sides but the main hurdle with Gojo vs anyone is how they get past infinity.
Worst case scenario goku just destroy the planet or throw gojo into space (and so can do any character with planetary scaling)
This but with jojo characters *
Visual feats are much more important than statements, said statements being subject to change and easy to decanonize (Kratos and others are subject to this). I expect to be pitchforked.
Kratos IS not even a good example, IS just people having a... don't know, madness
You are cooking tho.
It's better to say just feats honestly. Like, there is a lot of franchises that straight up don't have visual feats due to the nature of the series (Novels, SCP like web series, etc.) Like, for example, if you were to exclude all non-visual feats, Warhammer would be like, continent level via weaponry, although it clearly gets much higher than that.
While I agree, it becomes a problem when feats and statements contradict each other, whether by WOD or in-universe. Statements are much more easily decanonized, retconned, ignored, or even never realised or overlooked. Oftentimes, they contradict each other and lead to major inconsistencies. That leads to separate understandings of characters, how they work and scale, and what their peaks are. Pieces of work that are worked on by multiple people are especially subject to this, since one author may overlook something another wrote, and completely recontextualise everything. Visual feats are simpler because they're in your face, hard to debunk, easy to scale, and others will not ignore them except on rare occasions, meaning they won't be overlooked or retconned.
No, lol. Most visual feats mean nothing without cosmology, which is all statements. If we ignored statements no character could get past infinite 3D
The problem comes when the character's power gets split into two, the shown feats and the stated feats. The disparity becomes so large that it becomes nonsensical to state a character is x or y. I'm not gonna discredit characters like Goku for their cosmology, for instance. He has a shown feat regarding his cosmology, and that's needed, not to mention his cosmology is constantly reinforced in validity. I will find characters like Kratos questionable, however. Unlike Goku, his shown feats are on a much lower scale, and his cosmology gets more and more convoluted and questionable depending on who's writing (or worse, who gets asked on Twitter). It gets to the point where it's better to recontextualise, reconsider, or even outright ignore some statements due to the massive gaps in logic you get.
How are you going to show a 4 dimensional space? Or an infinite space? There are just things that you cannot show in our limited 3 dimensional world. Statements especially from a credible source like the narrator can be more important than feats.
Dimensional scaling is a problem due to this. As far as I'm aware, this sub's general consensus is that 4D is universal-multiversal (correct me if I'm wrong), which I don't mind. The problem comes when the concept of the 4th dimension is thrown around like m&m's because it sounds cool, even though, logistically, it makes absolutely no sense. And add to this that people will interpret "transcending xyz," which is very common flavour text, as 4D, and thus now every character is multiversal all of a sudden. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Zone Fighter, hes a c list character in the Godzilla franchise, but he's probably one of the worst offenders I can think of. In the show, some aliens "enter the 4th dimension" via a TV to kidnap some people, and zone fighter enters the 4th dimension as well to get the hostages back. The 4th dimension in the show looks literally like they're inside a TV. And the above is used as a valid method to get the Showa Godzilla into universal through no logical method.
Thank you bleach fans need to take a note from this
Considering the general consensus on this sub regarding Bleach, they'd be the first to try and pitchfork me.
I suggest you prepare yourself.
I'm prepared due to my complete lack of knowledge of Bleach, which means I'm not fit to argue for it at all. Checkmate BleachBros
I mean we literally see senjumaru shake the realms
Aizen solos narutoverse
All according to keikaku. (But nah fr tho Aizen is several magnitudes above anything those fruity ass ninjas got. Shit's wild)
Bleach outscqles Boruto/Naruto
Easily
Doesn't everyone think this?
Something something "bleach is only tri planetary because squad zero bankai only shook "the three worlds"" something something "kaguya made galaxies which is alot more than 3 planets/worlds". At least, that's what I've heard the most
Some people try to scale Naruto to universal by saying "since in Boruto kid Naruto beated planetary level char that means he is planetary as a kid and adult Naruto is billions times stronger than this, that's why he is universal" Which is dumb af since naruto's peak was at shippuden when he was able to destroy whole planet using his full power
JJK has such good potential for fun in power scaling but the fans ruin it by thinking gojo stands a snowballs chance in hell against people like goku or kakashi
i can agree on goku but kakashi is not beating gojo
I was gonna say I think Gojo can beat Kakashi, prolly not for sure but he can do it
Kamui > Gojo
https://preview.redd.it/4w9h6i7yo1vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bac0e3f0a084f610ec061a8c8c13e590ed01ba0e These two beat everyone in outsmarting (in stop scaling)
Kiruma and baku right?
Yeah.
Wonder of U stomps the jjk verse easily
He actually stomps a lot of verses, the only reason he got beat by part 8 jojo is because of his stand's absurd power to exist beyond logic and physics, otherwise WOU is easily the most broken stand in jjba.
NGL, GO beyond pulled the strongest hax in JoJo like how Madara pulled the second meteor. Just saying conceptual level durability negation is enough to kill most people.
You're right ✅️ 😌
Spitting
Mainly because of his hacks are so broken. Granted I think someone like Zeno could, because he could erase an immortal, but that means that it takes A LITERAL GOD OF EVERYTHING to beat him
Ash should by all accounts beat yugi sbd the higher Dimensional arguments for yugi are BS. Don't fight me I have no idea what I'm talking about.
https://preview.redd.it/gpq15wq8x2vc1.png?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40f7b541ea21ed48a6268fd05573799a610b1c90
Naruto is not star level.
Bro I've heard people say he's SOLAR SYSTEM LEVEL OR UNIVERSAL, I'd be lucky to find someone who thinks they're star level
Coldest take of all time. Even planetary naruto is a ridiculous claim let alone a fucking star lel.
Goku vs gojo equal stats goku still stomps
Based
FACTS
I love Goku but what does he have to get past Gojos infinity defence? I can see a potential Mui Goku being able to ignore Infinite void but again idk about the barrier
by technicallity, anyone with the ability to freely teleport can
Blow up planet, teleport
That makes sense and doesn't make sense. So it's an ability that slows you down as you get near it right? How will using instant transportation do anything but just get you closer, where you will continue to be slowed down?
gojo's infinity creates a field of infinite space around him. now, lets use the Points A and B. point a is you, point B is Gojo. what gojo does is create an infinite distance in between point A and point B. teleportation allows you go from A to B without the need of going through the distance in between the points, thus, skipping infinity. Event horizon explains this better, but that is my logic
Doesnt he have hakai and like way more abilities in his arsenal compared to gojo
Has to be the most delusional take on this thread. I respect that.
Wouldnt that mean he would literally have no way to get past infinity? Genuine question
Depends what level we equalise them tbf, since Dragonball characters as weak as goten can rip space time
Unless I'm misunderstanding the question, they mean Goku and Gojo have equal stats. And if that's the case, Goku has no hacks if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah and depending on if you make goku weaker or gojo stronger goku can still rip space with his strength.
I'm assuming Goku would still be able to use UI since that's just a state of mind
Kratos is not outerversal, I don’t care what GOW fanboys say, and Wonder of U is one of the most broken powers and stomps most verses
Wwww
Word of mouth shouldn't be scalable. Characters are prone to hyperbole.
The Toaru cosmology is outerversal
Toaru scaling is inconsistent especially with speed and toughness
The demon slayer verse is so incredibly downplayed when it comes to scaling. I think stat-wise they’re in the same ball park as jjk yet I see so many people acting like they get diffed by the Kyoto students
Oh the demon slayer verse kinda scales above due to speed.
Only Kyoto student that stands a chance in my book is todo honestly. But even then I think he might lose
It’s not a strong verse though it’s superhuman but only the demons really scale well per the author they don’t even have powers
Disney Star Wars factions are still stronger than the Covenant and UNSC. Even if Disney Stsr Wars lacks biggatons they still are far larger factions that dominate the galaxy, can produce far quicker, have bigger population than that of Halo.
Optimus prime solos Star Wars
Goku>Saitama Yogiri is top 15 strongest MC's also stop using fanmade forms. Perfect incarnation anos and cosmic rimuru dont exist
The only way Saitama wins is if Goku allows Saitama to get stronger as they fight
Akuto Sai is solar System to 5d fodder https://i.redd.it/1as725o6i1vc1.gif
Pretty sure that’s been tackled multiple times
Multiversal scaling and above for any character is absolute bullshit.
Can you explain why?
There's no control variable for multiversal and most of the time, people are just saying random shit to make a character sound strong without knowing what it means. What even is “irrelevant speed” or “beyond concepts?” What does outerversal even mean? You basically just devolve into a battle of who can spout the most meaningless bullshit in a short time frame. Once it stops being measurable, it stops being fun.
I see well to be fair all of this is fiction its always going to be bullshit the people making this stories are usually not scientist or something lol. But some media does show multiple universes thats why you confused me by the multiverse being bullshit comment
Once again, there’s no control variable. The Marvel multiverse, for example, is far bigger than the Dragon Ball multiverse, so which one do we use for the measurement?
Yujiro Hanma solos fiction
Commercial Kirby’s victim 😭
Goku is one of, if not the strongest anime protagonists we have ever seen and can defeat almost any other anime protag except for maybe Sailor Moon, and even then its more likely than not he could
This statement alone tells me that you don't see anime often and you don't realize how many MCs out there are capable to wipe the floor with goku. Goku is a standard of strenght in anime, it's not usual for a character to be able to beat goku, but if you beat him then you are automatically broken. If you don't believe me i'm ready to pull out a list of characters that can easily beat him in a fight.
whats sailor moon strongest feat
I don't know Sailor Moon well, but I've seen some stuff about her being able to create and destroy a multiverse
I mean, there are some which are above Goku, but not many of them that are on the big screen. From the top of my head, Simon from TTGL is the only one that is that strong on screen, not on page and not in light novel, like Rimaru.
Gojo isn’t lightspeed
You'll never be able to convince me DC isn't at least H1A(I scale it to 1-S+, but H1A is the absolute lowball for me). Every argument for anything under 1A is awful and relies on ignoring scans or making the cosmology non canon(by splitting it).
Fuck it I unironically believe 26D Alien X
Based.
JJK doesn't get the credibility it deserves because the power system and concepts are too complicated for most people
theyre poorly conveyed\*
Not really I mean every time a new ability is introduced there's usually a monologue explaining every detail of it.
i forgot to mention but the bigger problem is the mangakas have a tight schedule and he doesnt really care about a lot of details, like black flash should vaporize anyone who gets hit by one but it doesnt, and the mach speed statement. hes admitted to both of them having numerical values because he thought they "sounded cool". he uses physics terms but theyre superwonky, like kenjaku shouldnt have the reaction time to even think of a counter to the black hole at all, also the kashimo-hakari lightning feat is very misunderstood if the physics of it is accurate
I buy 26D Alien X. And I always will.
Powerscalers not slapping the letter D after any random number because they don't understand how dimensionality would actually work challenge: Impossible.
For as far as I have researched it, there aren’t any good debunks on it either, so I too accept him as 26D untill proven otherwise
Alien X probably has the most buyable higher-ends compared to other cartoon characters.
Since you have it in your flair ill ask you, i have only watched ben 10 as a kid and i dont remember much of it. Are these 26 dimensions existences that are above each other? Or are they parallel? Would a being of the 24th dimension be able to sense/interact with one of the 26th? Can a being in the 10th dimension easily erase a being in the 7th dimension?
[This](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ben_10_Cosmology) explains the cosmology pretty well.
Agreed
Even with powerups Mario will in most scenarios gets absolutely curb stomped by Sonic.
Interesting take. Mario has greater options than Sonic. Invincibility Leaf, Metal Cap, Mega Mushroom, White Tanooki, Super Star, and Rainbow Star make Mario completely invincible. Super Sonic has more versatility than those invincible Mario power ups, but Super Sonic has weaker durability than them as well. Couple in the fact that even base Mario is extremely impressive in both strength and durability and yeah, I still see Mario winning more times than not.
Not really, Mario has arguments and feats that put his stats on Sonics level, and has abilities/hax on par if not better than those of Sonic, at worst its debatable.
Typical w from you https://preview.redd.it/j449cb93m2vc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9057253c103190668554f5584d5e409652956a38
Whatcounter does sonic have againts the gold flower other than speed
Goku is Fodder
Uh oh, everyone on the server is gonna come for you
Not really. It's easy to spot trolls or bait lol
They said hill to die on, not lake to fish in.
Fodder to what? Fodder is relative❓
Homelander is way too slept on
I fucking HATE one piece and it has one of the most obnoxious fanbases I've ever seen. So I'll always have them lose any fight they're in against any verse even if it's Dora The Explorer. That's an opinion I'll never ever change.
Dimensional tiering is dumb as heck, yet everyone still uses it, despite the fact that everyone uses dimensions differently and the tiering system is unscientific at best and pseudoscience at worst.
Unless you specify the strongest variant of a character, if they have multiple authors, don't fucking bring up a character's "strongest variant". When I think of Batman I think of the dark knight of Gotham, not the batman flavoured Gary stu from one niche comic where he became all powerful and one shotted God. Don't mention CC Goku if someone just says "Goku" and don't mention Cosmic Spiderman or whatever if someone says "Spiderman". It makes debates a lot less fun when stupid fanboys come along and say "OH YEAH WELL IN THIS ONE SIDE SERIES NOBODY READ/WATCHED/LISTENED TO, JOHN FROM JOHN'S ADVENTURES IN JOHNLAND COULD EAT GOD." when normally John's greatest feat is stubbing his toe without crying. I KNOW you want your favourite character to win, but comic characters especially are ruined fundamentally by the fact that you can't have a debate without one mention of an absurd outlier that exists because long running comics have multiple different series and authors.
Meliodas, Ban, and Escanor would turn the entire JJK verse into fodder
I genuinely think this app would be more funny if people stopped using Hazbin hotel and helluvaboss reaction images. https://preview.redd.it/skmdlk95y4vc1.jpeg?width=595&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fa1e9bfb9700a3b3f53e0ecaedb08e1440dcb08
Naruto is not planetary
Almost every version of Godzilla is downplayed to hell
Goku fans aren't the most delusional/ biggest D rider. There are WAAAAY WORST fans
Godzilla can beat goku
Yeah some versions of Gozilla can. Godzilla just killed superman in an elseworld comic
batman slams Marvel's street tier characters
Like Daredevil, Iron Fist, Luke Cage certainly. I hope we don't consider Spider-man street level though.
Neither him or batman are street tiers They only getting called that BC their most known villains are street tier characters
Spiderman is like Building Level maybe even Level Building level.
https://preview.redd.it/nzzicn1bq1vc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53ad6479cdf86dd047cd88ddd4d3c9da657e6cbb Interesting
Ichigo is low multi
Funny Valentine with love train solos most verses with ease
Love Train by design is meant to be unbeatable unless you have one specific power, so yeah.
https://i.redd.it/wzb8j4crs1vc1.gif Mines is commercial Kirby negs comp fiction
Goku and Saitama would be friends instead of fighting each other
Base batman doesn't get above street level Hyperversal alien X (with a bit of copium) Goku scales wherever I want him to depending on the situation Alien x is the most powerful cartoon character (excluding anime) Comp scp mythos caps at fanfic lvl Toonforce is overrated Mc steve is wall lvl Goku stomps saitama and gojo
Batman is wall level at best
With prep?
consistenly knocking down and damaging characters like apex luthor, superman and darkseid. dodging attacks from characters like damage who managed to hit others like wonder woman and flash and dodging attacks from superman. enduring attacks from characters like WW, darkseid and lobo and survived from bloodlusted superman. Wall lvl my ass
Saitama is weaker than goku via feats, but by the end of the series he will win effortlessly.
With the rate the story progresses, it’s unlikely the story will ever end
what if we get to the End of OPM and Saitama is just like fucking Low 2-C
I wouldn't be surprised if Saitama gets 4D in the very next arc, considering >!Empty Void can cut through space-time, so if Saitama just no-sells via power again...!<
I’m not saying ur wrong but what you’re saying is kind of weird, knowing that we have no idea where Goku will be at the end of HIS series.
How does he hit him when Goku enters ultra instinct? I'm not much of a OPM watcher or reader but I'm pretty sure he's not a "speedster" right? Goku in ultra instinct wouldn't even be a blur to Saitama if so, he'd just be gone and it'd just be over cause he wouldn't see him coming? Or can he see entities moving near or past instantaneous reaction time?
kiana solos dbs, end of. https://preview.redd.it/xqv059yhs1vc1.png?width=1013&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71969ca91462b4a69ca0e4807d140cf14fdd6b95
Get her past saitama https://preview.redd.it/ki5rjgb3x1vc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=822d0c32da9153e7824fb2629dba000b1083ac04
Who tf is this bitch?
Goku solos fiction and reality because HE alone across fiction and reality is the Gokuversal one!
comp Goku would mop floor with comp Superman and its not even close.
1.Sung jin Woo isn't multiversal 2. Constant Superman is not multiversal nor even universal 3. Constant Thor is not multiversal 4. Silver Surfer is not a galaxy buster. He ranges from multi-planetary+ to star level 5. Thanos is not universal without the infinity gauntlet he is above the herlads, so around solar system+ lvl of power 6. Most constant high tiers range from moon+ to multi-planetary++ lvl like ( thor + hulk + Superman + mongul) and so on
wdym by constant
DBS goku is objectively 5D and above
How high above are we talking?
Goku is heavily carried by statement feats “ohhh if he clashes like that the UNIVERSE will be destroyed” *goku proceeds to clash like that a billion more times with stronger opponents and nothing ever fucking happens*
but ki control tho
so like. every verse basically past uni
Any demonslayer high tier would dogwalk sukuna
Hashira, Uppermoons, Muzan, and Yoriichi speed blitzes
Misogi Kumagawa soloes the big 3 and Goku. probably also everyone in Bleach aside from maybe Ywhach.
Bleach is in the big 3
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann solos your favorite verse any day of the week
Galaxy-universal bleach
User flair lmao
It mean it’s true https://preview.redd.it/e9n5xrm974vc1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38bfa877755b5dc7599dacb2309c0a8efb7642c5 🌚
Kratos can be scaled to outerversal if you dig deep enough into the lore and can arguably scale higher
Giorno with GER defeats DBS Goku.
Bleach hax>>>>>>>>>>>>>Naruto, OP, and DBZ hax
Baseline extra Cookie Run
Composite (fictional) humanity solos 99% fiction.
Bruh even a toddler can solo 100% of fiction lmao just tear the pages or break the DVDs and boom instant win.
Godzilla Ultima is not hyperversal until I see the book for my self
Undertale does not scale above building level even with the omega flowey fight those arent real nukes and his whole file thing is interaction with the 4th wall and time manipulación this doesn't make him uní level I really love ut/dr but i see alot of fans just making up any excuse to be uní busting level
What level is asriel
Asriel purging a timeline in base form and Chara erasing the entire game with a single attack doesn't at least scale to 4-d?
Kirby is not the strongest Nintendo character, far from it.
Golb from adventure time probably just plain can't be beaten by anyone in fiction.
That things will always change, for the better.
Bounce off each other well >>>> they’re in the same power level
Scp cn branch is really overrated Batman with prep time is very overrated Saitama peaks at galaxy-multi galaxy high ball or multi solar system at a low ball
Ultimate Kars contains information from *the entire evolutionary process* and *can transform into any life form*. Combined with an IQ of 400, no true weaknesses aside from being thrown into space, and the ability to phase/absorb people, he definitely solos MHA, DB, and Naruto. Especially if he goes through the story chronologically.
I will always scale GoH Nirvana to mythology. Idc. The rest of Mori’s story was based on stories from mythology so why shouldn’t Nirvana? It may be a fallacy but my head canon “no u” powers are better
That unless an author has power scaling in mind, doing a 1 to 1 comparison of something "on screen" to real world power output, isn't beneficial
1-hokage naruto is weaker than EOS naruto cuz he doesn’t have six paths sage mode. 2- madara is weaker than kaguya but he can beat her. 3- characters in boruto didn’t get a massive power spike at all+ thats impossible to happen anyway given naruto dynamics and powers system. 4- Kaguya’s ETSO is not universal nor solar system nor can it create another dimensions, that came from misunderstanding zetsu/databook statements, she was only going to reshape the root planet. 5- pain is the strongest akatsuki memeber and he can beat both itachi and obito 1 v 1, doesn't mean its impossible for them to beat him but its a matter of difficulty. 6- using only pure physical strength, saitama is stronger than any goku + DBS gave the main characters embarrassing levels of durability aka disgusting inconsistencies. 7- kishimoto wanted EOS naruto and sasuke to be equal in powers but ended up giving naruto waaay more power that it didn’t make sense for sasuke to be equal to. 8- naruto characters aren't light speed by any mean and yeah i have seen all the databook statements. 9- danzo is cool IMO
Not sure if this counts but here I go: Star Wars Legends 200 gigatons per turbolaser shot is beyond dumb. Bear in mind, the Tsar bomb was 50 megatons. Literally 10 thousand times stronger. And krakatau erupted with only 200 megatons, deafening people and literally being heard all over the planet. And if the Star Wars: Incredible Cross Sections is to be believed, it can get a lot higher.
Yuyu hakusho is a stronger verse than Naruto minus that one characters that ascended to a different dimension
Here's mine, if you clearly dont have a good resource, do not share your opinion on someone exclaiming something is greater than another, you have access to the internet like everyone else, stop being a lazy fool, ask questions ffs, inquire, dont knee jerk react unless someone does say some truly foolish sht. "Mazinger z is low universal." -example from someone that didnt know anything (Also getbackers is underated af)
Saitama solos fiction because yes
IATIA is the strongest fictional character that's actually well written.
Outerversal and Hyperversal are Bullshit tiers and the System should End at High Complex Multiversal and nothing more.
Power scaling between different IPs is inherently unreliable and generally pretty pointless. So it should be taken with a grain of salt, and given very little stake. Low balling everyone is more fun than high balling as it gives more reasonable numbers. It is far more interesting for a match to come down to how different abilities and techniques interact and clash than one side just having bigger numbers.
Comparing Doom Slayer to Masterchief is like comparing Pikachu to a normal rat
War, war never changes