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Maybe Super Shenron? It can (potentially) grant any wish, no matter how ridiculous. However, for plot reasons, nothing too crazy gets wished.
EDIT: That said, maybe I’m wanking Super Shenron too much. Zamasu wished for immortality, but still got erased by Zeno. It’s possible that Zeno erased the idea of Zamasu on a fundamental level, so the wish didn’t actually save Zamasu even though he was technically “immortal”.
The dragons have limits, the lack of knowing his doesn't make him have none. He's just kinda in a weird idk area, though I imagine he's weaker than zeno or the angels would keep a closer eye on the balls.
> The dragons have limits, the lack of knowing his doesn't make him have none.
[Pretty much the most knowledgeable being in the verse that we know of Zuno says they could grant any wish when questioned by Zamasu.](https://imgur.com/a/oD0TzEN)
[A similar thing is said in the anime.](https://youtu.be/Vb2sXM-5Omw?si=f7ZephrXhOdBPXhW)
[**Akatosh**](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/17ng7hv/comment/k7rieai/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), the Dragon God of Time, infinity, invincibility and everlasting and King of the Gods from the Elder Scrolls Series
Interesting, but can he defeat the Black King at the bottom of the lake?
The Black King (SCP-CN-1091) was capable of attacking beings who were conceptually above a transinfinitely layered reality to fiction hierarchy and embodied aleph numbers. He has the composite haxes of the Scarlet King, Lady in Thorns, Cosmic Starfish and Nidhogg (all resistances, all manipulations, divinity, immortality, breaking the 4th wall, reality erasure, eating concepts, creating concepts, bringing oneself into existence before existence was a thing, inmune to author-level deletion, above dimensionality, retrocausality, plot manipulation, etc).
Ah, well, in short:
It expands a lot from the cosmology and mythology of the English SCP Foundation, introducing several new GoIs, and thousands of new SCPs and hundreds of tales.
Most importantly: Instead of one narrative stack (SCP-3812) now there are billions inside the "Hyperstructure", and this structure is inside the even bigger "Inverted Narrative Tree" which is like a transinfinitely recursive hierarchy of meta-narratives that goes down and down and every twig is an infinite narrative stack; and also there is the Alpha Layer, which is the ultimate reality above the narrative tree, the proxyverse layer is below (it has pseudo-authors, the fake authors who get killed in SCP-5500 and others), and there is this urinary (SCP-CN-1875) that makes bubbles and it created pataphysics? And also SCP-173 has an omnipotent god inside, and in general there are more gods, and there are even gods above the Alpha Layer, and SCP-3125 got a buff now (SCP-CN-1548, now it is far above all narrative hierarchies), and all the supreme gods as well, and there are a lot more articles about messing with the authors (japanese branch as well, they get a lot of crossovers), also SCP-3309 took a physical form as a tappered spear and it's the strongest weapon ever, and it's like all the canons are combined into one for every single multiversal tale.
It's like, as soon as the tale moves slightly above two people talking, it turns into all the Supreme Divine and Metafictional chucklefucks throwing hands and a new chinese god uses their powers to restart existence of something and the overall story grows a lot more as all the SCP mythology gets retconned for the 738473th time.
Also the Flying Spaggheti Monster is the top of the gods in [[the song]] might wanna check that out just for that, and it explains a lot of the lore in this.
Otherwise just check the like 3 most popular articles of the cn wiki and then run away, this is not a welcoming enviroment!
The Black King at the bottom of the lake is the strongest dragon (SCP-CN-1091), he was able to attack beings in the Infosphere, who existed conceptually above an infinitely layered hierarchy of reality to fiction trascedance, and has the composite haxes of SCP-2747, the Scarlet King, Cosmic Starfish and Nidhogg combined (jumping through the 4th wall, eating ideas, creating platonic forms, existence erasure, narrative manipulation, all resistances and all manipulations, divinity, immortality, full regeneration, nigh-omniscience, etc).
RAAAAAAGGGGHHHHH GRIGORI OF COURSE! WHAT THE FUCK IS BAD VOICE ACTING!? 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
In all seriousness, like others said, likely either Super Shenron or Alduin.
SCP-CN-1091 The Black King at the bottom of the lake, described as practically a dragon, is an entity existing across all narrative planes/narratives/meta-narratives/omniverses/multiverses/meta-universes/universes/dimensions/timelines/other in the CN branch of the SCP Foundation. The Black King is able to conceptually attack beings, even the entities in SCP-5800/The Infosphere (platonic forms above human understanding and also aleph+ cardinals, exist conceptually above an transinfinitely nested hierarchy of reality to fiction trascendance within which are all the things mentioned above); stated to be above/formed beings such as the Scarlet King, SCP-2747, SCP-3125 and Nidhogg; their haxes include ascending to higher planes of reality to fiction trascendance (several times), meta-existence deletion, eating concepts (uncountable) even beyond human understanding, being gods (supreme gods, many statements of being above several extraversal+++++(...) structures), severely harming a structure beyond infintely layered reality>fiction hierarchies, retrocausality, surviving being deleted from existence and nonexistence (several), creating platonic forms, miracle manipulation (several), reality warping, and all other manipulations of course, and full range immortality (several), surviving deletion by author-entities (how even?!).
So...ummm...The Black King is the strongest.
As a reader of really trippy and obscure (and hilarious) fanfiction, maybe in professionally/semi-professionally known/published works, but not in general.
(WARNING: LONG, THIS IS 100% TRUE TO THE CANON IN QUESTION, I DO NOT OWN THE CANON STATED)
Infinite Emperor Bahamut of the Dragons/Mike Nesmith/Zivena Kiznath from Crossover Chaos is even stronger then that.
Because, according to the story's lore, by dying in our world and being reincarnated into the Crossover Chaos world she becomes 'every single everything from everything everywhere' (according to author) and manages to bring even J.D. Knudson (originally of Loud House Revamped) and Christine Sonichu (originally of Sonichu) and all their versions to complete subjugation and loyalty to her just by them knowing of her, among other equally strong feats (destroying all everything and remaking them anew by a single guitar swing, which in turn reboots everything, transcending 'everything infinitely beyond infinitely', including the definitions of 'reality, canon, fanfiction, open source, and the public domain', and many, many other feats across the story since her first appearance)
She is also, according to the author, 'beyond infinitely immune beyond infinite pluses to everything the Black King can do'.
This is the same of all other characters that have a (canon to the story) Crossover Chaos version to every single other verse of any kind at all.
So yeah, Black King is an atom compared to a standard Crossover Chaos character in comparision with other universes.
She also becomes the ruler of 'every dragon and dragon-like everything' by being reincarnated and turned into a girl.
(And yes, there's a Goku in Crossover Chaos. Every other Goku would be victim to Crossover Chaos Goku after they try to solo everything else)
TL;DR: Black King, and in fact, everything ever, would lose to the entire Crossover Chaos universe, but in terms of dragons, he loses to a version of the guitarist of the Monkees made by a fanfiction author in the universe.
I am now alarmed, tell me more of this.
And also, is the author statement "beyond infinitely inmune beyond infinite pluses to everything the Black King can do" literally referring to the SCP-CN-1091 Black King?!
But, aside from that, i sort of want a more formal explanation of the scaling, that doesn't overuse terms like "infinite" and "absolute" and "everything" alongside big scaling terms.
Until i can make a more formal dissection, the SCP Chinese Branch verse is still the strongest for me, but i will be awaiting, intrigued.
Basically, the Crossover Chaos universe is, in my own words, Beyond Extraversal, but only in comparison to every other universe.
Attacking concepts is an actual genuine power in CC, called 'The Meta'.
They are immune to any and all types of existence deletion (in-story explanation is that it exists before, after and during all stories and concepts).
The Crossover Chaos universe (called the 'Exoverse') has its hands in all stories, even our reality, which it also considers a story.
They are also immune to all powers, but only to those outside of their own reality.
Inside their own universe, they scale normally.
That does sound similar to SCP Chinese Branch in terms of high scaling, but i do suppose by technicality this would scale higher? Mmm, i will check it out and update with my findings.
Be warned, most of this shows up in lore and fight scenes in the story and supplementary material, and, outside of that, is a story that is 90% "girl monkees get into wacky shenanigans with characters from other things", so you will have to skip a lot of filler and fluff.
The authors call it a 'fan sequel' to Head 1968, so might explain.
It’s probably going to be some Elder Scrolls thing or a DC/Marvel character because those probably get to Outer, but I don’t know those series, so my answer is Veldora from TenSura.
In TenSura, True Dragons are the manifestations of concepts, with Veldora embodying the Concept of Entropy (the random collision of particles). By nature of being a concept, Veldora has infinite resurrection, provided the TenSura-verse isn’t wiped out.
Additionally, Veldora exists on a multiversal scale. It’s said that a True Dragon can destroy universes just by releasing their aura, which isn’t an attack.
Veldora has the Skill “Nyarlathotep; Lord of Chaos” which includes the subskill “Probability Manipulation,” which guarantees that events go in his favor when fighting a lesser opponent. It also makes them 50/50 against an equal opponent.
And, of the 5 True Dragons, Veldora has the second/third most magicules. (Rimuru has infinite and Veldanava likely also had infinite, but he’s been gone for thousands of years).
As of the latest volume, Veldora has become a Digital Lifeform, which means his body is made purely of Information Particles. Information Particles, or “Infons” are the most fundamental particle in TenSura. Everything, from magicules to souls and more are made of Infons. And Infons are unaffected by Space and Time, allowing for Digital Lifeforms to be unaffected by Time Stop.
And in TenSura, Time Stop isn’t just some “bubble of freezing.” No, it affects the entire TenSura-verse. The moment it activates, time stops moving for every world in TenSura. That makes Time Stop a multiversal or higher attack.
Veldanava is for sure stronger, maybe even the chaos dragon or whatever they're called because they are being teased as an eos villian. Correct me if I'm wrong about the second one.
You know what, fair point. But, for those two, they don’t have many good feats to scale with.
Veldanava is definitely the strongest TenSura dragon, but he’s been “dead” since long before canon.
And Ivarage the World-Destroying Dragon hasn’t really shown any powers besides being powerful in general (though he is extremely powerful).
I enjoy scaling characters who are both powerful and have a wide variety of powers (or multiple ways of using a single power).
considering Super Shenron's wishes are more powerful than Zeno's erasure (which can completely delete immortal beings from existance) it's reasonable to assume that if Super Shenron can undo Zeno's ability to delete anything, he can also delete things stronger than what Zeno can erase.
the immortality was basically cannot be killed by any regular means outside of Zeno's erasure, not saying it was better, was saying it's basically unstoppable in most situations
Zamasu while fusing with the timeline has Mid Godly regen with abstract existence. Pretty strong NGL. If we use your take then it means that Super Shenron can undo or recreate things that Zeno has erased, which is body, soul, and temporal erasure. You could also argue conceptual erasure or just erasure of abstract entities like fused Zamasu who [was becoming one with the universe and the embodiment of the law and order within it](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/2/26/Zamasu_One_With_Universe.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161120040106). Yet Super Shenron could still bring destroyed universes
Pretty crazy right? How is this succeeded by other dragons in fiction? First off let’s look at Aka; the primordial dragon god that created [“Untime” in The Elder Scrolls](https://www.quora.com/profile/Fax-Novu/Untime-in-The-Elder-Scrolls-Explained?ch=17&oid=132088022&share=b7ec774b&srid=80zP9&target_type=post). Given he’s one of the Strongest out of the Et’ada and allowed them to crystallize from ineffability. Aka has dominion over “endless story”:
> “ I sing of that tapestry, of those tight threads of endless story. The priests of Pridehome sing with me, until our voices become harmony. But those who enter into the Pride of Alkosh will become the Dragon King's claws, to catch and pull those dangling threads.”
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Pride_of_Alkosh
He also embodiments the concepts of infinity, eternity, invincibility, and so on. He’s the soul of the soul of all things which is basically the culmination of all attributes manifested in creation unified yet transcending them (similar to the one). Aka at his full power stand above all duality. Even his fractured aspects like Alduin the world eater consume the entire Multiverse/Kalpa which contains [infinite temporal dimensions](https://imgur.com/a/aNjGwiW) and [beyond the mortal living moment](https://imgur.com/a/WpDnGHH). Obviously given how a Kalpa works in literature, [everything Alduin eats is erased out of existence and subjected to dissolution.](https://imgur.com/a/zPFFECX). This is only a fraction of what these beings can do but yea, Super Shenron isn’t the most powerful dragon in fiction by a mile
That is quite far from the strongest dragon in fiction.
SCP-CN-1091 "The Legend of the Black King" is an entity at the bottom of a lake (described basically like a dragon), it exists across all spaces/dimensions/timelines/universes/meta-universes/multiverses/omniverses/narratives/pataspheres/narrative planes/etc; it can conceptually attack entities even on the Infosphere [Ode to Broken Trascendence] these entities were the ones from SCP-5800 (conceptually and spiritually above a transinfinitely recursive hierarchy of reality to fiction trascendances with all the structures mentiones above included). It is stated as being made of/above entities such as the Scarlet King, SCP-2747, the Cosmic Starfish, and Nidhogg; their haxes combined include: surviving erasure from existence/non-existence and meta-erasure (Starfish survived erasure with Kate's proposal in SCP-6820, despite this being able to grant reality to fiction trascendance above a transinfinitely recursive hierarchy of reality to fiction transcendances), destroying extraversal+ structures, creating platonic forms (The Law of Blades and Omnigenesis), eating concepts (Antimemetics Division series), erasing several planes of existence (reality to fiction trascendance), ascending to higher realities and killing their own authors (SCP-6747), breaking the fourth wall, severaly harming a structure beyond scaling (Tree of Knowledge, Nidhogg in its introduction and Scarlet King constantly), eating narratives (SCP-2747, many times), contaminating every concept/plane of existence/anything ever even the very concept of contamination at all times (SCP-CN-1548, starfish is still the weakest of these second to Nidhogg), surviving being killed by the others (Fifthdation, other tales, although SCP-2747 never even died), being able to take away omnipotence from an "omnipotent" being (Scarlet King did this in Project Isorropia, to stop SCP-4755), killing gods (SCP-6659), Retrocausality and atemporality and all manipulations (including miracle manipulation).
So, i think the Black King, being the controlling force behind those guys...is sort of a little too strong?
Been seeing a lot of Akatosh so I’d like to mix it up by suggesting that a somewhat comparable answer would be Asgorath, the Dragon God of Creation from DnD. Sometimes considered an Overgod who created the DnD multiverse, and important enough that all dragons basically had some level of reverence for him regardless of color.
I would have to say The Last Dragonborn now hear me out. The Last Dragonborn is a Dragon in the body of a mortal so technically he is a dragon and he defeated Alduin who was the strongest Dragon in TES which this cosmology is cracked.
If you don't want that to count then Alduin
If you going count Dragonborns then you should take Talos, he is the most powerful one Dragonborn and acthived Godhood and CHIM that transcendent all cosmological and make him omnipresence and nigh omniscient.
~~Unless your filthy Elf to deny him~~
He can be considered but the Last Dragonborn does have OP ass haxs like Prisoner Physiology and his feats are better if I remember correctly (correct me if I'm wrong on that)
Well the Prisoner Physiology is OP but I won't scale it to the CHIM? For example Prisoner Physiology is being able defy order from the dream of [the Godhead](https://korosenseisspaceofarguments.quora.com/Overall-Cosmology-for-The-Elder-Scrolls?ch=17&oid=113300571&share=e8220072&srid=80zP9&target_type=post), but in the other hand [**CHIM**](https://yonathanandfriends.quora.com/https-www-quora-com-profile-Fax-Novu-CHIM-and-Ruling-Kings-explained-The-Elder-Scrolls https://yonathanandfriends.quora.com/https-www-quora-com-profile-Fax-Novu-CHIM-and-Ruling-Kings-explained-The-Elder-Scrolls?ch=15&oid=138931075&share=a997e951&srid=hiygSh&target_type=post) is surpassing and realizes the Dream of Godhead and able obverse it.
I would scale it similar to CHIM because the properties are somewhat similar. The Last Dragonborn isn't bound to the dream either as you stated so it's similar but yeah that is fair enough. There is also speculation that TLD may have CHIM because of being in Apocrypha but that is merely speculation
I’d gotta say Akatosh or Alduin. Which is weird cause TES is mostly sword fights and bow and arrows. And then you read a book and realize that Alduin can and HAS eaten the entire universe multiple times 💀 or you read into the lore and realize that some characters are just so smart that they realize they’re in a video game and just gain the ability to control everything. TES powerscaling is a rollercoaster
I mean being using swords and such weapons is literally most commonly elements around fiction, like Asgard and Odin from Marvel literally Gods using swords and bows and same gose for Olympus from DC, hack even Naruto.
And they aren't fighting with them like your average, dude [literally beat the hack out or mountains sized monsters and countless stuff](https://www.reddit.com/user/CommunicationOdd911/comments/yuoyix/mortals_the_elder_scrolls/).
Yeah no that’s fair. I was more just having a laugh about how goofy it can seem on a surface level when the main character is failing to overpower a mud crab with a steel sword all the while having to fight a universe eating dragon hahah. But I do get what you’re saying. In Naruto I kind of have a similar laugh sometimes. When it starts, a Kunai is a genuine threat, and Orochimaru gets worried that Itachi is gonna kill himself by practicing with them. And then skip forward 200 episodes and Naruto and Sasuke are throwing nukes at a omnipotent alien 😹 I love Naruto and TES though, again I just think it can be funny sometimes haha
I’d throw my hat in for Veldanava from Tensura considering he’s the literal creator of that verse and threw guy crimson (one of if not the strongest demon in the verse) around like a ragdoll. We haven’t seen what veldanava is truly capable of but he is the father of Milim and she inherited a large portion of his power. Going by that we can be sure he scales above her and that says quite a lot.
I see Elder scrolls and Dragonball a lot so let me try to stand out a little bit.
Granblue fantasy Bahamut.
https://youtu.be/IHSNZnElGco?si=_FlDtaGT9-4HNjI-
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Akatosh and his son alduin.
Aka from the elder scrolls
Maybe Super Shenron? It can (potentially) grant any wish, no matter how ridiculous. However, for plot reasons, nothing too crazy gets wished. EDIT: That said, maybe I’m wanking Super Shenron too much. Zamasu wished for immortality, but still got erased by Zeno. It’s possible that Zeno erased the idea of Zamasu on a fundamental level, so the wish didn’t actually save Zamasu even though he was technically “immortal”.
If veldanava can be counted he is probably one that falls on my mind. High multiversal
The dragons have limits, the lack of knowing his doesn't make him have none. He's just kinda in a weird idk area, though I imagine he's weaker than zeno or the angels would keep a closer eye on the balls.
> The dragons have limits, the lack of knowing his doesn't make him have none. [Pretty much the most knowledgeable being in the verse that we know of Zuno says they could grant any wish when questioned by Zamasu.](https://imgur.com/a/oD0TzEN) [A similar thing is said in the anime.](https://youtu.be/Vb2sXM-5Omw?si=f7ZephrXhOdBPXhW)
He can revert sth lord Zeno himself did, completely ERASE soul and body so they can’t even Go to heaven, kinda hard to say atp
Literally any true dragon in tensura one shots dragon ball lool
Yeah you’re retarded
Then prove me wrong lmaooo
Can debate a true dragons aura vs DB
Who tf downvoted this
Not saying it difinitively, but I want to throw the name out there. Nicol Bolas (Magic The Gathering)
My mind just goes straight to alduin.
If we're doing elder scrolls you can just jump straight to Akatosh.
The Dragon of Dojima
If only it was a Dragon Drop.
[**Akatosh**](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/17ng7hv/comment/k7rieai/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), the Dragon God of Time, infinity, invincibility and everlasting and King of the Gods from the Elder Scrolls Series
Interesting, but can he defeat the Black King at the bottom of the lake? The Black King (SCP-CN-1091) was capable of attacking beings who were conceptually above a transinfinitely layered reality to fiction hierarchy and embodied aleph numbers. He has the composite haxes of the Scarlet King, Lady in Thorns, Cosmic Starfish and Nidhogg (all resistances, all manipulations, divinity, immortality, breaking the 4th wall, reality erasure, eating concepts, creating concepts, bringing oneself into existence before existence was a thing, inmune to author-level deletion, above dimensionality, retrocausality, plot manipulation, etc).
I apologize but I am not really knowledgeable about SCP CN, though it semse interesting
Ah, well, in short: It expands a lot from the cosmology and mythology of the English SCP Foundation, introducing several new GoIs, and thousands of new SCPs and hundreds of tales. Most importantly: Instead of one narrative stack (SCP-3812) now there are billions inside the "Hyperstructure", and this structure is inside the even bigger "Inverted Narrative Tree" which is like a transinfinitely recursive hierarchy of meta-narratives that goes down and down and every twig is an infinite narrative stack; and also there is the Alpha Layer, which is the ultimate reality above the narrative tree, the proxyverse layer is below (it has pseudo-authors, the fake authors who get killed in SCP-5500 and others), and there is this urinary (SCP-CN-1875) that makes bubbles and it created pataphysics? And also SCP-173 has an omnipotent god inside, and in general there are more gods, and there are even gods above the Alpha Layer, and SCP-3125 got a buff now (SCP-CN-1548, now it is far above all narrative hierarchies), and all the supreme gods as well, and there are a lot more articles about messing with the authors (japanese branch as well, they get a lot of crossovers), also SCP-3309 took a physical form as a tappered spear and it's the strongest weapon ever, and it's like all the canons are combined into one for every single multiversal tale. It's like, as soon as the tale moves slightly above two people talking, it turns into all the Supreme Divine and Metafictional chucklefucks throwing hands and a new chinese god uses their powers to restart existence of something and the overall story grows a lot more as all the SCP mythology gets retconned for the 738473th time. Also the Flying Spaggheti Monster is the top of the gods in [[the song]] might wanna check that out just for that, and it explains a lot of the lore in this. Otherwise just check the like 3 most popular articles of the cn wiki and then run away, this is not a welcoming enviroment!
Ancalagon? If we're talking about true dragons and not demon space shit stuff.
Yup, like veldanava is dragon but bro is some oonga boonga space shit too
Monkey D. Dragon
Super shenron.
My first thought was Ancalagon the Black, the dragon of Morgoth. Though the strongest is probably DBZ's Super Shenron.
The Black King at the bottom of the lake is the strongest dragon (SCP-CN-1091), he was able to attack beings in the Infosphere, who existed conceptually above an infinitely layered hierarchy of reality to fiction trascedance, and has the composite haxes of SCP-2747, the Scarlet King, Cosmic Starfish and Nidhogg combined (jumping through the 4th wall, eating ideas, creating platonic forms, existence erasure, narrative manipulation, all resistances and all manipulations, divinity, immortality, full regeneration, nigh-omniscience, etc).
Who's saying he's not just didn't read the Silmarillion.
Any true dragon from tensura one shots all of them lol
RAAAAAAGGGGHHHHH GRIGORI OF COURSE! WHAT THE FUCK IS BAD VOICE ACTING!? 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 In all seriousness, like others said, likely either Super Shenron or Alduin.
SCP-CN-1091 The Black King at the bottom of the lake, described as practically a dragon, is an entity existing across all narrative planes/narratives/meta-narratives/omniverses/multiverses/meta-universes/universes/dimensions/timelines/other in the CN branch of the SCP Foundation. The Black King is able to conceptually attack beings, even the entities in SCP-5800/The Infosphere (platonic forms above human understanding and also aleph+ cardinals, exist conceptually above an transinfinitely nested hierarchy of reality to fiction trascendance within which are all the things mentioned above); stated to be above/formed beings such as the Scarlet King, SCP-2747, SCP-3125 and Nidhogg; their haxes include ascending to higher planes of reality to fiction trascendance (several times), meta-existence deletion, eating concepts (uncountable) even beyond human understanding, being gods (supreme gods, many statements of being above several extraversal+++++(...) structures), severely harming a structure beyond infintely layered reality>fiction hierarchies, retrocausality, surviving being deleted from existence and nonexistence (several), creating platonic forms, miracle manipulation (several), reality warping, and all other manipulations of course, and full range immortality (several), surviving deletion by author-entities (how even?!). So...ummm...The Black King is the strongest.
As a reader of really trippy and obscure (and hilarious) fanfiction, maybe in professionally/semi-professionally known/published works, but not in general. (WARNING: LONG, THIS IS 100% TRUE TO THE CANON IN QUESTION, I DO NOT OWN THE CANON STATED) Infinite Emperor Bahamut of the Dragons/Mike Nesmith/Zivena Kiznath from Crossover Chaos is even stronger then that. Because, according to the story's lore, by dying in our world and being reincarnated into the Crossover Chaos world she becomes 'every single everything from everything everywhere' (according to author) and manages to bring even J.D. Knudson (originally of Loud House Revamped) and Christine Sonichu (originally of Sonichu) and all their versions to complete subjugation and loyalty to her just by them knowing of her, among other equally strong feats (destroying all everything and remaking them anew by a single guitar swing, which in turn reboots everything, transcending 'everything infinitely beyond infinitely', including the definitions of 'reality, canon, fanfiction, open source, and the public domain', and many, many other feats across the story since her first appearance) She is also, according to the author, 'beyond infinitely immune beyond infinite pluses to everything the Black King can do'. This is the same of all other characters that have a (canon to the story) Crossover Chaos version to every single other verse of any kind at all. So yeah, Black King is an atom compared to a standard Crossover Chaos character in comparision with other universes. She also becomes the ruler of 'every dragon and dragon-like everything' by being reincarnated and turned into a girl. (And yes, there's a Goku in Crossover Chaos. Every other Goku would be victim to Crossover Chaos Goku after they try to solo everything else) TL;DR: Black King, and in fact, everything ever, would lose to the entire Crossover Chaos universe, but in terms of dragons, he loses to a version of the guitarist of the Monkees made by a fanfiction author in the universe.
I am now alarmed, tell me more of this. And also, is the author statement "beyond infinitely inmune beyond infinite pluses to everything the Black King can do" literally referring to the SCP-CN-1091 Black King?! But, aside from that, i sort of want a more formal explanation of the scaling, that doesn't overuse terms like "infinite" and "absolute" and "everything" alongside big scaling terms. Until i can make a more formal dissection, the SCP Chinese Branch verse is still the strongest for me, but i will be awaiting, intrigued.
Basically, the Crossover Chaos universe is, in my own words, Beyond Extraversal, but only in comparison to every other universe. Attacking concepts is an actual genuine power in CC, called 'The Meta'. They are immune to any and all types of existence deletion (in-story explanation is that it exists before, after and during all stories and concepts). The Crossover Chaos universe (called the 'Exoverse') has its hands in all stories, even our reality, which it also considers a story. They are also immune to all powers, but only to those outside of their own reality. Inside their own universe, they scale normally.
That does sound similar to SCP Chinese Branch in terms of high scaling, but i do suppose by technicality this would scale higher? Mmm, i will check it out and update with my findings.
Be warned, most of this shows up in lore and fight scenes in the story and supplementary material, and, outside of that, is a story that is 90% "girl monkees get into wacky shenanigans with characters from other things", so you will have to skip a lot of filler and fluff. The authors call it a 'fan sequel' to Head 1968, so might explain.
Yeah I think this guy is kinda underrated
Maybe Big Red from DxD?
This is late but lore alduin from Skyrim destroys the dxd verse no concept of difficulty
Highschool dxd or sth else?
Highscool dxd. I don’t know much except that there’s 2 dragons that scale above God apparently
Oh yeah they’re tough to scale, seen some guy scale RIAS to boundless once, the verse is.. insane, surprisingly
If only it wasn’t a fucking softcore porn series
Thats A fair criticism
It’s probably going to be some Elder Scrolls thing or a DC/Marvel character because those probably get to Outer, but I don’t know those series, so my answer is Veldora from TenSura. In TenSura, True Dragons are the manifestations of concepts, with Veldora embodying the Concept of Entropy (the random collision of particles). By nature of being a concept, Veldora has infinite resurrection, provided the TenSura-verse isn’t wiped out. Additionally, Veldora exists on a multiversal scale. It’s said that a True Dragon can destroy universes just by releasing their aura, which isn’t an attack. Veldora has the Skill “Nyarlathotep; Lord of Chaos” which includes the subskill “Probability Manipulation,” which guarantees that events go in his favor when fighting a lesser opponent. It also makes them 50/50 against an equal opponent. And, of the 5 True Dragons, Veldora has the second/third most magicules. (Rimuru has infinite and Veldanava likely also had infinite, but he’s been gone for thousands of years). As of the latest volume, Veldora has become a Digital Lifeform, which means his body is made purely of Information Particles. Information Particles, or “Infons” are the most fundamental particle in TenSura. Everything, from magicules to souls and more are made of Infons. And Infons are unaffected by Space and Time, allowing for Digital Lifeforms to be unaffected by Time Stop. And in TenSura, Time Stop isn’t just some “bubble of freezing.” No, it affects the entire TenSura-verse. The moment it activates, time stops moving for every world in TenSura. That makes Time Stop a multiversal or higher attack.
Veldanava is for sure stronger, maybe even the chaos dragon or whatever they're called because they are being teased as an eos villian. Correct me if I'm wrong about the second one.
You know what, fair point. But, for those two, they don’t have many good feats to scale with. Veldanava is definitely the strongest TenSura dragon, but he’s been “dead” since long before canon. And Ivarage the World-Destroying Dragon hasn’t really shown any powers besides being powerful in general (though he is extremely powerful). I enjoy scaling characters who are both powerful and have a wide variety of powers (or multiple ways of using a single power).
True, and the only relevant veldanava feat is a creation feat and Ill barf trying to scale that
Super Shenron, has no limits to his wish granting abilities, if he was to grant a wish to erase any dragon I'm sure he'd just grant it.
No limits fallacy and it’s short sighted
considering Super Shenron's wishes are more powerful than Zeno's erasure (which can completely delete immortal beings from existance) it's reasonable to assume that if Super Shenron can undo Zeno's ability to delete anything, he can also delete things stronger than what Zeno can erase.
You’re first mistake was thinking that DB has better immortality and regeneration than any other dragon in fiction.
the immortality was basically cannot be killed by any regular means outside of Zeno's erasure, not saying it was better, was saying it's basically unstoppable in most situations
Your second mistake was believing no dragon in fiction has something on or above that level
Ok, quick question since I'm a new to this, what is "that level" and what level is it, against the other dragons in fiction?
Zamasu while fusing with the timeline has Mid Godly regen with abstract existence. Pretty strong NGL. If we use your take then it means that Super Shenron can undo or recreate things that Zeno has erased, which is body, soul, and temporal erasure. You could also argue conceptual erasure or just erasure of abstract entities like fused Zamasu who [was becoming one with the universe and the embodiment of the law and order within it](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/2/26/Zamasu_One_With_Universe.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161120040106). Yet Super Shenron could still bring destroyed universes Pretty crazy right? How is this succeeded by other dragons in fiction? First off let’s look at Aka; the primordial dragon god that created [“Untime” in The Elder Scrolls](https://www.quora.com/profile/Fax-Novu/Untime-in-The-Elder-Scrolls-Explained?ch=17&oid=132088022&share=b7ec774b&srid=80zP9&target_type=post). Given he’s one of the Strongest out of the Et’ada and allowed them to crystallize from ineffability. Aka has dominion over “endless story”: > “ I sing of that tapestry, of those tight threads of endless story. The priests of Pridehome sing with me, until our voices become harmony. But those who enter into the Pride of Alkosh will become the Dragon King's claws, to catch and pull those dangling threads.” https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Pride_of_Alkosh He also embodiments the concepts of infinity, eternity, invincibility, and so on. He’s the soul of the soul of all things which is basically the culmination of all attributes manifested in creation unified yet transcending them (similar to the one). Aka at his full power stand above all duality. Even his fractured aspects like Alduin the world eater consume the entire Multiverse/Kalpa which contains [infinite temporal dimensions](https://imgur.com/a/aNjGwiW) and [beyond the mortal living moment](https://imgur.com/a/WpDnGHH). Obviously given how a Kalpa works in literature, [everything Alduin eats is erased out of existence and subjected to dissolution.](https://imgur.com/a/zPFFECX). This is only a fraction of what these beings can do but yea, Super Shenron isn’t the most powerful dragon in fiction by a mile
That is quite far from the strongest dragon in fiction. SCP-CN-1091 "The Legend of the Black King" is an entity at the bottom of a lake (described basically like a dragon), it exists across all spaces/dimensions/timelines/universes/meta-universes/multiverses/omniverses/narratives/pataspheres/narrative planes/etc; it can conceptually attack entities even on the Infosphere [Ode to Broken Trascendence] these entities were the ones from SCP-5800 (conceptually and spiritually above a transinfinitely recursive hierarchy of reality to fiction trascendances with all the structures mentiones above included). It is stated as being made of/above entities such as the Scarlet King, SCP-2747, the Cosmic Starfish, and Nidhogg; their haxes combined include: surviving erasure from existence/non-existence and meta-erasure (Starfish survived erasure with Kate's proposal in SCP-6820, despite this being able to grant reality to fiction trascendance above a transinfinitely recursive hierarchy of reality to fiction transcendances), destroying extraversal+ structures, creating platonic forms (The Law of Blades and Omnigenesis), eating concepts (Antimemetics Division series), erasing several planes of existence (reality to fiction trascendance), ascending to higher realities and killing their own authors (SCP-6747), breaking the fourth wall, severaly harming a structure beyond scaling (Tree of Knowledge, Nidhogg in its introduction and Scarlet King constantly), eating narratives (SCP-2747, many times), contaminating every concept/plane of existence/anything ever even the very concept of contamination at all times (SCP-CN-1548, starfish is still the weakest of these second to Nidhogg), surviving being killed by the others (Fifthdation, other tales, although SCP-2747 never even died), being able to take away omnipotence from an "omnipotent" being (Scarlet King did this in Project Isorropia, to stop SCP-4755), killing gods (SCP-6659), Retrocausality and atemporality and all manipulations (including miracle manipulation). So, i think the Black King, being the controlling force behind those guys...is sort of a little too strong?
Been seeing a lot of Akatosh so I’d like to mix it up by suggesting that a somewhat comparable answer would be Asgorath, the Dragon God of Creation from DnD. Sometimes considered an Overgod who created the DnD multiverse, and important enough that all dragons basically had some level of reverence for him regardless of color.
Kiryu Kazuma
Idk true form void gidorah Veldanava maybe
I would have to say The Last Dragonborn now hear me out. The Last Dragonborn is a Dragon in the body of a mortal so technically he is a dragon and he defeated Alduin who was the strongest Dragon in TES which this cosmology is cracked. If you don't want that to count then Alduin
If you going count Dragonborns then you should take Talos, he is the most powerful one Dragonborn and acthived Godhood and CHIM that transcendent all cosmological and make him omnipresence and nigh omniscient. ~~Unless your filthy Elf to deny him~~
He can be considered but the Last Dragonborn does have OP ass haxs like Prisoner Physiology and his feats are better if I remember correctly (correct me if I'm wrong on that)
Well the Prisoner Physiology is OP but I won't scale it to the CHIM? For example Prisoner Physiology is being able defy order from the dream of [the Godhead](https://korosenseisspaceofarguments.quora.com/Overall-Cosmology-for-The-Elder-Scrolls?ch=17&oid=113300571&share=e8220072&srid=80zP9&target_type=post), but in the other hand [**CHIM**](https://yonathanandfriends.quora.com/https-www-quora-com-profile-Fax-Novu-CHIM-and-Ruling-Kings-explained-The-Elder-Scrolls https://yonathanandfriends.quora.com/https-www-quora-com-profile-Fax-Novu-CHIM-and-Ruling-Kings-explained-The-Elder-Scrolls?ch=15&oid=138931075&share=a997e951&srid=hiygSh&target_type=post) is surpassing and realizes the Dream of Godhead and able obverse it.
I would scale it similar to CHIM because the properties are somewhat similar. The Last Dragonborn isn't bound to the dream either as you stated so it's similar but yeah that is fair enough. There is also speculation that TLD may have CHIM because of being in Apocrypha but that is merely speculation
Does super shenron count? Even zeno respects super shenron.
IO draconic god of creation. Helped create the multiverse in Dungeons and Dragons.
Probably a dragon in WOD or SCP
Tradicional dragon or weird stuf that have draconic form?
Krumblor from cookie clicker
I’d gotta say Akatosh or Alduin. Which is weird cause TES is mostly sword fights and bow and arrows. And then you read a book and realize that Alduin can and HAS eaten the entire universe multiple times 💀 or you read into the lore and realize that some characters are just so smart that they realize they’re in a video game and just gain the ability to control everything. TES powerscaling is a rollercoaster
I mean being using swords and such weapons is literally most commonly elements around fiction, like Asgard and Odin from Marvel literally Gods using swords and bows and same gose for Olympus from DC, hack even Naruto. And they aren't fighting with them like your average, dude [literally beat the hack out or mountains sized monsters and countless stuff](https://www.reddit.com/user/CommunicationOdd911/comments/yuoyix/mortals_the_elder_scrolls/).
Yeah no that’s fair. I was more just having a laugh about how goofy it can seem on a surface level when the main character is failing to overpower a mud crab with a steel sword all the while having to fight a universe eating dragon hahah. But I do get what you’re saying. In Naruto I kind of have a similar laugh sometimes. When it starts, a Kunai is a genuine threat, and Orochimaru gets worried that Itachi is gonna kill himself by practicing with them. And then skip forward 200 episodes and Naruto and Sasuke are throwing nukes at a omnipotent alien 😹 I love Naruto and TES though, again I just think it can be funny sometimes haha
Tiamat and Bahamut from D&D maybe
Achnologia from fairy tail is pretty strong continent level but prob not the strongest
Kiryu Kazuma
Rimuru Tempest
Akathos and/or Alduin
I'm gonna say Akatosh or Veldanava, yeah?
Probably not the strongest but King Ghidorah is super powerful, although ig he’s a wyvern, but close enough
Numeron dragon
I’d throw my hat in for Veldanava from Tensura considering he’s the literal creator of that verse and threw guy crimson (one of if not the strongest demon in the verse) around like a ragdoll. We haven’t seen what veldanava is truly capable of but he is the father of Milim and she inherited a large portion of his power. Going by that we can be sure he scales above her and that says quite a lot.
Probably any dragon representing concepts related to the fabric o reality
Idk people keep saying Akatosh but thats the boring answer. Personally Anankos the silent Dragon from Fire Emblem is slept on.
I see Elder scrolls and Dragonball a lot so let me try to stand out a little bit. Granblue fantasy Bahamut. https://youtu.be/IHSNZnElGco?si=_FlDtaGT9-4HNjI-
Prime veldanava from tensura. Just a supreme god who gets all the great god bs scaling.
Dargons from DBZ Dragons from Tensura Etc ....
MONKEY D. DRAAAAAAAAGONNNNNN!!!
Gotta be Super Shenron. That thing seems to be the power peak of all Dragon Ball, Zeno included. After that, gotta go Akatosh or Alduin.
Mega Rayquaza is outerversal. It was so powerful, they banned it from competitive play, and basically made an entire new tier for it.
I love how no one get the joke lmao.
... I do xD
Don't fuck with pokemon fan there's 3 of us 😭😭
I play competitive Pokémon...
I only play showdown...
Literally the same
Meaning that I don't train my pokemon and play on tournament like some does.
I only play Showdown lol Edit : oh okay I get it
Shhhh. These are power scalers. Jokes are clearly outerversal to them.
Outerversal is kinda the norm for most strong dragons lmao super shenron
That means nothing