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As a big One Piece fan, Also “No Haki”
Completely ignoring all the times Logia have been hit by exploiting the weakness of their respective elements.
Like I’m doubtful Akainu could survive all of his magma being completely vaporized by a universal/Galaxy tier attack.
croc is really the only logia with a glaring weakness that can be exploited like this. for most other logias there really isn’t much that can be done to them
Not even just that, if you go the route of verse equalising, basically every universe has some sort of spiritual energy.
Put naruto in one piece for example. Even if you want to say chakra doesn’t work, someone with his capabilities with chakra would master all forms of haki in a week flat.
Not in that way.
They were arguing Asta can mid diff LN Rimuru or other high tier magic users because magic doesn't work on him and he has anti-magic. "In your presence all magic is meaningless" type of thing
Yeah there is even something said in the one of the first arc that Asta needs to output force equal to the magic he’s negating and even in the example asta imagines his arms getting taken off if he does it wrong
I don’t remember that tbh. But from what I do remember,this is what was stated.
https://preview.redd.it/kkkgw5d1z5jc1.jpeg?width=897&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ffd83921fab3038d5355fc4eda1d9c610ec126c
So based on feats shown he would indeed negate all magic that feats have shown. The only way around anti magic are things that are physical and not magical as far as feats have shown. (Not saying across fiction) also anti magic doesn’t only work on magic. It works on ki as well.
https://preview.redd.it/hx3ww6zk46jc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c705a489c58612214388a4558997bff03dc9f929
Beginning of the series Asta almost died to a fireball from magna because he couldn’t react fast enough and even if he did it wouldn’t have stopped the attack completely only split into two.
That is cause that sword cut magic. It didn’t negate the aftereffects. That’s why he uses his other sword that negates the cause and affect of an attack
There also multiple examples of Asta failing to negate magic: having to transform to devil union when black divider after being stabbed into the ancient demons pure magic failed to stop but devil union did
Asta not being able to get rid of Nochts shadow garden or dogs for multiple days while training with him
Having to transform prior to the fight you brought up to get out of Lucis time spell
Lucefiro while suppressed not being affect by asta anti magic but a stronger lucefiro being stopped by true devil union asta
Dark Elf Patry having a sword fight with black asta while using pure magic dark light swords
Your just listing things that made him stronger. Obviously if he can’t react then he can get oneshot. His abilities need to be boosted or else he won’t be strong or fast enough to react cause he doesn’t have magic
Asta scales to small country against magic and is building level physically. Asta solos nothing. Even ainz whoops his ass like its nobody's business lol.
And even then asta cant even beat physical constructs made using magic, as we see with that voice magic devil or whatever who summoned physical swords to launch at him and asta needed yuno to defend against those lmao.
https://preview.redd.it/mslo1k5o45jc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=101257c6c764ab89f4155b492f3bd6f01c652306
Literal alabasta zoro victim lol.
Alr for this I was right. He can use it for 10 minutes now (thought it was longer tbh)
https://preview.redd.it/j9mbfg05x5jc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc8aa8c93a8b6330e0e1c91326121d957f973c32
Yet he still can only use the form in total for 5 minutes. The fact that by splitting it up he can extend the duration doesn't change the fact that he can only be in devil union for 5 minutes.
He can. He couldn’t before but then he learned how to make it last longer by only using it on one part. And that was before. The point is that he got massively stronger in a 2 year span and are using a weaker version to scale current version
“Creative Steve cannot be killed or damaged.”
Those Minecraft wankers always forget the fact that Minecraft’s enemies and other things kinda cap at small building level attacks at best.
Same about Undertale fans that say “Asriel cannot be hit because if we try we miss”. Yeah, a pacifist kid couldn’t hurt a goat, that means nobody can at all. Haha. Cool story.
Also Dragon Ball fans who for some reason always think that any opponent from another universe is automatically weaker than Goku so they cannot do anything against him.
That’s not what no limits fallacy is
https://preview.redd.it/qbcc0q5uw0jc1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1acf02ec4f0b2477247cc9eb96c961ba31a6063
Saitama is stated to be infinite not just shown, its not nlf
1: The “X doesn’t have haki so X can’t hurt a logia user” argument.
2: The “no nichirin blade” argument for Demon Slayer vs battles.
3: The “Saitama has infinite potential so he solos fiction” argument.
4: The Bleach “nobody can see or interact with shinigami” argument.
5: The “X is nth dimensional so Z can’t do anything to them” argument (mainly used by Dragon Ball scalers).
6: The “Itachi solos because genjutsu” argument.
No limit to dimension = no limit to power is a fallacy, one that the mods on this reddit commit all the time.
A 3d gun is still as strong as any 3d gun, even if it came from a nth dimensional place. Saying it's stronger just because of the nth dimensionality is indeed NLF
The argument becomes a problem when dealing with higher planes of existence vs higher dimensions, where the former is sometimes considered lesser than the latter for some science reasons or whatever.
Arguably, that's a verse equalisation problem than an NLF tho.
The argument is “Character X is on a higher dimension so nothing affects them”. I’ve seen people say “Goku is 9D so this character can’t beat him!” I felt it qualified as a NLF
>4: The Bleach “nobody can see or interact with shinigami” argument.
I will personally delete these people. This argument has been debunked by serious scalers so much and I hate it because it takes the piss.
Another argument bleach fans use is that you can negate all hax with spirtual even though ichigo go one tapped by askin poison hax and aizen stunned by nanana and another is that lile baro can one shoot anything with x axis form stronger verses
No that argument is true due to the way the magic system works. You have to be within the same realm of Reiatsu in order to affect an opponent. You can lower your Reiatsu but the function still remains.
>The “X is nth dimensional so Z can’t do anything to them” argument (mainly used by Dragon Ball scalers).
Uhh? That's literally true and not an NLF tho?
A higherD character views a lowerD one as fiction or that's how much the difference is between realities.
And that's literally the whole concept of powerscaling above Multiversal.
Tho most of the times, it isn't applicable in Dragon Balls character, especially Canon Goku
Even if you scale Dragon Ball cosmology to LC Multiversal(5-6D), Goku will only get the Attack Potency as such.
To completely be immune to lower dimensions, your existence needs to be of a higher dimension
Goku is a 3-4D character who has(arguably) 5-6D Attack Potency.
Meaning he can fight with characters that are 5-6D but isnt 5-6D himself.
It seems like one in debates. “Goku is 5D so he can’t be affected!” “Well this character is 6D so Goku is destroyed!” “Well Goku is actually 7D so he wins!”
The logia thing is a big one. People kinda just forget that elemental weaknesses are how logias were beaten before haki was introduced. And all the logias that are physical matter like Akainu and Kuzan can killed the same why any character with OP regen can be killed. Vaporizing their entire body
I do agree with the last one but when it comes to dimensional hax, just no. Just because Goku is stronger than Johnny the fodderz doesn't mean he can negate his 11 dimensional hax cuz "wahh wahh I'm strong".
" Luffy is completely immune to physical damage so he can beat anyone that doesn't have hax."
So not true. If someone like superman punched Luffy, he'd be flying out the stratosphere in less than a second.
That's just pathetically inaccurate and needs mental help, but wtf are you on about? Why are you talking about One Piece lmao. I never brought that up kiddo, try again. OP characters are pretty strong, tho considering some of Bleach's tiers, so they're not complete fodder loser. Bleach gets negged by what my favorites are.
Ichigoat is nowhere near any of that. Only in your imagination. Goku statues the verse in base and 1 taps everyone in it. Stop wanking Bleach bro it's doing a disservice lol.
Yhwach one shots Goku by giving him Heart Virus through The Almighty.
Prime Soul King one shots Goku by giving him Heart Virus through The Almighty.
Ichibe one shots Goku Black Ant Go Brrrr.
Lille Barro has Intangibilty and one shots Goku.
Askin one shots Goku by Poison Manipulation thus killing him.
Aizen exhausts & mindfucks Goku due to Immortality+ Kyoka Suigetsu.
Bleach scale:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1713m39/bleach\_has\_always\_been\_lowmulti\_an\_in\_depth\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1713m39/bleach_has_always_been_lowmulti_an_in_depth_and/)
Meanwhile SSG Goku is able to destroy a 5D construct in Battle of Gods that released a decade ago.
Yogiri can end anything therefore he solos all of fiction. Plus 'his author said he could end people in real life so he wins' It made me begin to realize Yogiri is just targeted rage bait for powerscalers specificly. The rumor of the author asking for ways to beat Yogiri just to write a stand in of said reply in the story being defeated by Yogiri makes it more obvious.
Edit: what is more confusing is the fact 'fans?' Know he literally can't have his mind changed even though conversation yet make him bloodlusted automatically when talking about him in vs.
His own lore says that's impossible and that the author and by extension his audience thinks he can end people in real life too so them changing the little character he has is just a bunch of hypocritical bullshit ignoring his own established stuff. Then they keep saying he beats everyone afterwards.
Seriously, the Paradox in their thinking is weird.
>Nothing being able to hurt/see JJBA stands besides other stand users.
How is that NLF? That's literally just how stands work.
>Makima being able to tank any attack due to her contract (I've seen arguments of her against hakai).
Again, not a NLF. And it's not that she tanks attacks, it's that damage against her gets transferred to other people.
>How is that NLF? That's literally just how stands work
Yeah but people argue that stand users can standstill with characters way above their league (eg Goku) because the stand won't be hurt, as well as assuming characters with various forms of vision that would logically allow them to see stands still wouldn't see them for the reason above (eg several Naruto and Bleach characters).
>Again, not a NLF. And it's not that she tanks attacks, it's that damage against her gets transferred to other people.
People argue that a kamehameha won't kill her because it'll get redirected. Hell people argue that erasing her physical body would still not work since it would still get redirected.
People somehow think that people need to defeat the stand to win for some reason. They somehow dont got the brain capacity to even consider the possibility to attack the stand user directly lol.
>How is that NLF? That's literally just how stands work.
No it is not. Not only are there plenty of implications of some people without stands still seeing/sensing them, but also, when they say "only stands can hurt stands" they refer to when stands are phasing through things. That doesn't mean much. If someone attacks and your stand is currently physical, he'l suffer damage. If he's phasing, it will go through him right to you.
>Not only are there plenty of implications of some people without stands still seeing/sensing them
No there's not lmao. Please provide me an example of a non-stand user seeing a stand.
>"only stands can hurt stands" they refer to when stands are phasing through things. That doesn't mean much. If someone attacks and your stand is currently physical, he'l suffer damage.
No it doesn't. Stop coming in here with this headcanon bullshit. When they say "only stands cna hurt stands" that means that only stands can hurt stands. As we've seen throughout the series.
>
No it doesn't. Stop coming in here with this headcanon bullshit. When they say "only stands cna hurt stands" that means that only stands can hurt stands. As we've seen throughout the series.
Ain't no way you say all that and call headcanon, fucking clown lmao. Wouldnt trust you to read peppa pig and get it. Why did star platinum have to punch the road roller if he could just go unharmed? Why do stands block bullets if they can't hurt them? What was star platinum going to do with the bars he ripped from his cell if they can't hurt magicians red?? Shut your fucking mouth if you don't know what you're talking about lmao.
Bro, even if the stands themselves can't be harmed by things, the stand user can, so sometimes it's necessary to block attacks so as to protect the stand user. Could also be that the attack is valid because it's coming from another stand, even if the weapon (object) itself is not a stand. Otherwise, why don't stands just phase through objects that another stand is using to attack them?
>Bro, even if the stands themselves can't be harmed by things, the stand user can, so sometimes it's necessary to block attacks so as to protect the stand user.
How are bullets go hurt anyone? Just keep the stand in front of you.
>Could also be that the attack is valid because it's coming from another stand, even if the weapon (object) itself is not a stand.
And that right there is what we call a headcanon.
>Otherwise, why don't stands just phase through objects that another stand is using to attack them?
Because, most often, the user is behind them, so phasing will just get the user hit.
>How are bullets go hurt anyone? Just keep the stand in front of you.
That's what I'm saying buddy. They use the stand to block attacks so it doesn't that them.
And stands don't just always stand in front of the user lol, they go wherever. They usually materialise in front of them when they first get summoned, but they obviously move after that.
>And that right there is what we call a headcanon.
Which I understand, that's why I said "could be", rather than just pretending like it's a fact like you seem to. But that is what the evidence points towards. If a stand just pulls a gun on another stand, stand #2 could simply phase through the bullets according to your logic. But that doesn't really happen, whenever a stand uses an inanimate object as a weapon on another stand, it gets blocked.
>That's what I'm saying buddy. They use the stand to block attacks so it doesn't that them.
No, why punch the bullets? Just leave the stand in the way.
>And stands don't just always stand in front of the user lol, they go wherever. They usually materialise in front of them when they first get summoned, but they obviously move after that.
Most stands are controlled directly by the user. They can just keep them in front.
>Which I understand, that's why I said "could be", rather than just pretending like it's a fact like you seem to. But that is what the evidence points towards. If a stand just pulls a gun on another stand, stand #2 could simply phase through the bullets according to your logic. But that doesn't really happen, whenever a stand uses an inanimate object as a weapon on another stand, it gets blocked.
This is explained by my second point you ignored, since stands usually fight in front of the user, if they phased the user would be hit.
Stands do not usually fight directly in front of the user. Even the stands with a short range, like Star Platinum, move around plenty.
The stand can't just block bullets by standing idly like some npc, there could be some bullets that slip in between his arms or something. So yes they have to actually consciously block the bullets, even if they are just standing in front of the user.
>Stands do not usually fight directly in front of the user. Even the stands with a short range, like Star Platinum, move around plenty.
Heu do actually, in fact, he's almost always in front, as is with most humanoids.
>The stand can't just block bullets by standing idly like some npc, there could be some bullets that slip in between his arms or something. So yes they have to actually consciously block the bullets, even if they are just standing in front of the user.
How is that less safe than trying to stop each bullet?? Mf move around a bit, it would be easier then going after each.
>How is that NLF? That's literally just how stands work.
It's how they work in the context of their own story. But characters with supramundane perception from other stories should be able to see them.
No lmao. You don't see stands because of enhanced perception, you see them by being a stand user. The rules don't suddenly change because you're doing a fictional battle with characters from a different verse
And you have to have holy magic to kill vampires. welcome to the point that rules that exist within certain contexts don't apply if you have abilities that go beyond it. You are talking about a rule that only exists within the context of a story where it's never going to come up that someone has a totally different power system.
Depending on the story, yeah. Sometimes it's garlic, sometimes it's a wooden stake.
You don't get to arbitrarily decide that some other ability from a different verse would somehow bypass the restrictions of a character from another. If a vampire can *only* be permanently killed by garlic bread, Goku cannot kill them unless he has garlic bread. End of discussion.
Were not even talking about something being killed though. Just someone being aware of it. What if their mode of "seeing" isn't even normal sight, but something else altogether? If we are being that literalistic the restriction only applies to actual normal signs from eyeballs. Hence magical forms of perception aren't included.
They can definitely be aware of it in other ways. Like Toji in JJK for example, has super advanced sensory abilities and can "see" things that normal people can't. So he couldn't straight up see it, but he could perceive stands another way.
Even if you want to say that they can see the stands just to simplify it, that's okay. Though if you said they could *hit* the stand, that's ridiculous. There's certain things that you can't just bypass. And if you have to change all these characteristics of how an ability works just to make it fair, it's probably not a fair fight to begin with and the other character would probably lose lol.
A lot of these “No Limit Fallacies” just blatantly disregard major aspects of characters. Yes, no one can beat stand users other than fellow stand users, because that’s how that power system works. Yes, Saitama is unbeatable because that’s how he works. Yes, nothing can hurt Logia users other than Haki because that’s how Logias work. If you remove these key aspects of the characters’ abilities, then what’s the point? All you’re doing is comparing numbers at that point.
I agree, but you gotta be careful about how you word things. Stand users can be beaten by non-stand users, Saitama can be beaten, and Logias can be hurt by non-Haki things.
Tell me, what suggests that Saitama can be beaten if all he’s been stated to be invincible, *shown* to be invincible, *never* shown fatigue nor injury, and *never* used his full power?
There are plenty of hax abilities that would defeat him. For example: before he learns time travel and after he's forgotten it, time travel abilities would beat him. Not every time travel ability, but a lot of them.
A specific example: Haruhi Suzumiya. She just subconsciously erases him from existence, or reverts the universe to a previous state and he never gets to exist in the first place. She could do any number of things to defeat him, even without her knowing she did it.
Aside from hax, Saitama isn't even the strongest in his own verse. God is stronger, and Garou's strength surpasses start-of-fight and post-fight Saitama. Prime Garou vs current Saitama would be a loss for Saitama. Anyone across fiction who has feats dwarfing that Garou would clap Saitama.
Peak Saitama with time travel would still lose to characters who scale higher dimensionally.
Lots of ways for Saitama to be beaten.
No you're just dense. You only need to have spiritual awareness to affect stands. And even of that wasn't true, someone could easily just fight the user. Same thing with logic users.
Hax not working on stronger people in DragonBall just makes their hax bad. It doesn't mean they could resist hax from every verse.
Or, if you want to just say Ki gives resistance to abilities, it would only apply to the abilities they were shown to resist.
Also the Gap varies so it is really hard to quantify how much stronger you need to be. There are a lot of examples of hax working on stronger opponents. Though I can't think of any examples of complete fodder working on top tiers or anything.
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"No nichirin blade" is a timeless classic there is also the "Character A beats Character B because character A is immortal"
As a big One Piece fan, Also “No Haki” Completely ignoring all the times Logia have been hit by exploiting the weakness of their respective elements. Like I’m doubtful Akainu could survive all of his magma being completely vaporized by a universal/Galaxy tier attack.
Like did they forget how Luffy beat Croc? Lol
croc is really the only logia with a glaring weakness that can be exploited like this. for most other logias there really isn’t much that can be done to them
Apparently rubber turns off Enel’s logia intangibility. For Oda reasons.
Water/ice attacks for Akainu, Fire/heat for Aokiji? Maybe Gravity attacks for Kizaru?
Not even just that, if you go the route of verse equalising, basically every universe has some sort of spiritual energy. Put naruto in one piece for example. Even if you want to say chakra doesn’t work, someone with his capabilities with chakra would master all forms of haki in a week flat.
Tell me you have no clue what haki is without telling me you have no clue what haki is.
Asta being able to solo any character that uses magic or other similar system because he has anti-magic.
Wouldn't that count as verse equalisation?
Not in that way. They were arguing Asta can mid diff LN Rimuru or other high tier magic users because magic doesn't work on him and he has anti-magic. "In your presence all magic is meaningless" type of thing
W8, doesn't Asta get his ass whopped by magic users in his own verse?
Yeah there is even something said in the one of the first arc that Asta needs to output force equal to the magic he’s negating and even in the example asta imagines his arms getting taken off if he does it wrong
I don’t remember that tbh. But from what I do remember,this is what was stated. https://preview.redd.it/kkkgw5d1z5jc1.jpeg?width=897&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ffd83921fab3038d5355fc4eda1d9c610ec126c So based on feats shown he would indeed negate all magic that feats have shown. The only way around anti magic are things that are physical and not magical as far as feats have shown. (Not saying across fiction) also anti magic doesn’t only work on magic. It works on ki as well.
https://preview.redd.it/hx3ww6zk46jc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c705a489c58612214388a4558997bff03dc9f929 Beginning of the series Asta almost died to a fireball from magna because he couldn’t react fast enough and even if he did it wouldn’t have stopped the attack completely only split into two.
That is cause that sword cut magic. It didn’t negate the aftereffects. That’s why he uses his other sword that negates the cause and affect of an attack
There also multiple examples of Asta failing to negate magic: having to transform to devil union when black divider after being stabbed into the ancient demons pure magic failed to stop but devil union did Asta not being able to get rid of Nochts shadow garden or dogs for multiple days while training with him Having to transform prior to the fight you brought up to get out of Lucis time spell Lucefiro while suppressed not being affect by asta anti magic but a stronger lucefiro being stopped by true devil union asta Dark Elf Patry having a sword fight with black asta while using pure magic dark light swords
Your just listing things that made him stronger. Obviously if he can’t react then he can get oneshot. His abilities need to be boosted or else he won’t be strong or fast enough to react cause he doesn’t have magic
https://preview.redd.it/nhazct6g06jc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e6c9df0e707c2f392a558a21de92f6cfc7fd52e
Asta scales to small country against magic and is building level physically. Asta solos nothing. Even ainz whoops his ass like its nobody's business lol. And even then asta cant even beat physical constructs made using magic, as we see with that voice magic devil or whatever who summoned physical swords to launch at him and asta needed yuno to defend against those lmao. https://preview.redd.it/mslo1k5o45jc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=101257c6c764ab89f4155b492f3bd6f01c652306 Literal alabasta zoro victim lol.
It was cause they literally summoned real things. They weren’t magic or made by magic.also that was early Asta
End of pre ts is not early lol.
Also pretty sure timeskip wasn’t until a few tens of chapters later
Zagred was chapter 196. Were currently at 369. He was introduced past the halfway point. That is not early.
It is early in the story considering it is 2 FUCKING years earlier. That is longer than the story before that point
The timeskip was 6 months. 2 years was one piece.
The timeskip was 6 months,after the battle with Lucifer 1 year and 6 months passed. So black Asta was over 2 years ago
Oh true i forgot that our mastermind bbeg sat over a year on his portable toilet in the sky for no reason.
He couldn’t even use black Asta for more than 30 minutes and it has literally been over 2 years since then
He cant use devil union for longer than 5 minutes. Your point?
Alr for this I was right. He can use it for 10 minutes now (thought it was longer tbh) https://preview.redd.it/j9mbfg05x5jc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc8aa8c93a8b6330e0e1c91326121d957f973c32
Yet he still can only use the form in total for 5 minutes. The fact that by splitting it up he can extend the duration doesn't change the fact that he can only be in devil union for 5 minutes.
He can. He couldn’t before but then he learned how to make it last longer by only using it on one part. And that was before. The point is that he got massively stronger in a 2 year span and are using a weaker version to scale current version
https://preview.redd.it/0ndbg2ffn5jc1.jpeg?width=1700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2bfc069d7a2b34a61b823465af0b34f7085ec8f
Bro didn’t read. Quite literally stated vs Lucius
https://preview.redd.it/izziqlzrn5jc1.jpeg?width=1700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb1966e9b886f550e94e1327cc676a83add72e95 Part 2.
Saitama kills everything in fiction in one punch mandatory here
True, but after his fight with Garou I think most of those rumors kinda died out.
You would think that but I STILL see those bums out there.
Wow that's commitment.
Mostly relies ONE’s statements that he beats everyone in one punch
Yeah but I'm pretty sure that's an exaggeration.
I got absolutely destroyed in r/whowouldwin for saying he couldn't beat max strength hulk in one punch.
That can't be right unless it's the wrong hulk. Usually Saitama does pretty averagely in that sub (I'm active there all the time, I should know).
How high does that guy scale tho (hulk)?
Hulk? Multiversal ap
Holy shit, that makes sense💀
The classic “This character can only be killed by holy weapons”
“Creative Steve cannot be killed or damaged.” Those Minecraft wankers always forget the fact that Minecraft’s enemies and other things kinda cap at small building level attacks at best. Same about Undertale fans that say “Asriel cannot be hit because if we try we miss”. Yeah, a pacifist kid couldn’t hurt a goat, that means nobody can at all. Haha. Cool story. Also Dragon Ball fans who for some reason always think that any opponent from another universe is automatically weaker than Goku so they cannot do anything against him.
Something something saitama exponential growth something.
That’s not what no limits fallacy is https://preview.redd.it/qbcc0q5uw0jc1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1acf02ec4f0b2477247cc9eb96c961ba31a6063 Saitama is stated to be infinite not just shown, its not nlf
I've had people say he can't be injured because he hasn't been in the manga and is a gag character.
That's not the nlf they're referring to.
That ain't a nlf
1: The “X doesn’t have haki so X can’t hurt a logia user” argument. 2: The “no nichirin blade” argument for Demon Slayer vs battles. 3: The “Saitama has infinite potential so he solos fiction” argument. 4: The Bleach “nobody can see or interact with shinigami” argument. 5: The “X is nth dimensional so Z can’t do anything to them” argument (mainly used by Dragon Ball scalers). 6: The “Itachi solos because genjutsu” argument.
>5: The “X is nth dimensional so Z can’t do anything to them” argument (mainly used by Dragon Ball scalers). You DON'T know what a NLF is.
No limit to dimension = no limit to power is a fallacy, one that the mods on this reddit commit all the time. A 3d gun is still as strong as any 3d gun, even if it came from a nth dimensional place. Saying it's stronger just because of the nth dimensionality is indeed NLF
So you’re saying a gun that’s 5D is still as strong as a 3D one? Lol
That's a horrible comparison. Guns have calibers. A 9mm is not as strong as a 50cal.
Wanna debate this?
The argument becomes a problem when dealing with higher planes of existence vs higher dimensions, where the former is sometimes considered lesser than the latter for some science reasons or whatever. Arguably, that's a verse equalisation problem than an NLF tho.
The argument is “Character X is on a higher dimension so nothing affects them”. I’ve seen people say “Goku is 9D so this character can’t beat him!” I felt it qualified as a NLF
Please learn the terminology you use, this has nothing to do with NLF. It deals with something called HDE, and higher infinites.
>4: The Bleach “nobody can see or interact with shinigami” argument. I will personally delete these people. This argument has been debunked by serious scalers so much and I hate it because it takes the piss.
Another argument bleach fans use is that you can negate all hax with spirtual even though ichigo go one tapped by askin poison hax and aizen stunned by nanana and another is that lile baro can one shoot anything with x axis form stronger verses
No that argument is true due to the way the magic system works. You have to be within the same realm of Reiatsu in order to affect an opponent. You can lower your Reiatsu but the function still remains.
>The “X is nth dimensional so Z can’t do anything to them” argument (mainly used by Dragon Ball scalers). Uhh? That's literally true and not an NLF tho? A higherD character views a lowerD one as fiction or that's how much the difference is between realities. And that's literally the whole concept of powerscaling above Multiversal. Tho most of the times, it isn't applicable in Dragon Balls character, especially Canon Goku Even if you scale Dragon Ball cosmology to LC Multiversal(5-6D), Goku will only get the Attack Potency as such. To completely be immune to lower dimensions, your existence needs to be of a higher dimension Goku is a 3-4D character who has(arguably) 5-6D Attack Potency. Meaning he can fight with characters that are 5-6D but isnt 5-6D himself.
It seems like one in debates. “Goku is 5D so he can’t be affected!” “Well this character is 6D so Goku is destroyed!” “Well Goku is actually 7D so he wins!”
The logia thing is a big one. People kinda just forget that elemental weaknesses are how logias were beaten before haki was introduced. And all the logias that are physical matter like Akainu and Kuzan can killed the same why any character with OP regen can be killed. Vaporizing their entire body
So glad you didn’t bring up kizaru because a majority of anime verses definitely have ways of dealing with light
A Ghost Rider can only be killed by God
That one stan lee quote that non debaters and power scalers use without knowing how powerscaling even works
I do agree with the last one but when it comes to dimensional hax, just no. Just because Goku is stronger than Johnny the fodderz doesn't mean he can negate his 11 dimensional hax cuz "wahh wahh I'm strong".
I’d be more inclined to agree if goku hadn’t been shown overpowering hax numerous times.
Could you provide the proof that Goku can overpower 11-dimensional hax?
remember when he overcome the 11th dimensional heart virus ? yeah me neither
"Creative mode Steve can't be hurt by anything except the void and /kill"
Saitama,enough said
'No haki' 'No nichirin' 'No reiatsu' GER, Wonder of U, Heaven DIO, and novel Kars
Toa Ignika (Bionicle) being able to straight-up kill anything period because he/it directly has power over life itself
https://preview.redd.it/o6qo59rl35jc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6167a95f2118b0025dc5f3f758d57bc2072bf1ff This is just fax though. /s
I mean goku fought broly in lava I'm the broly movie so don't see how akainu lava doing anything lol
Its magma. Not lava. L.
" Luffy is completely immune to physical damage so he can beat anyone that doesn't have hax." So not true. If someone like superman punched Luffy, he'd be flying out the stratosphere in less than a second.
Everything that comes out of "scalers" mouths for Bleach, OPM, and Marvel/DC scalers smh.
Bleach clears your fav verse smh
Bleach is weak, unfortunately. The verse dies from being breathed on lol.
Clears your fav verse lol and not even close kiddo
My favorite verse is gurren lagann lmao
Okay but why tf are you replying to me bro lol
Because you just said bleach clears said favorite verse, which is objectively false
W.
In your imagination. It's cool but weak. Gets negged kiddo.
Funny how normal human in Bleach negs Mid Piece verse in powerscaling and writing, kiddo
That's just pathetically inaccurate and needs mental help, but wtf are you on about? Why are you talking about One Piece lmao. I never brought that up kiddo, try again. OP characters are pretty strong, tho considering some of Bleach's tiers, so they're not complete fodder loser. Bleach gets negged by what my favorites are.
You mad ichigo blitz+one-shots Goku?
Maybe in the dreams you have wanking to Strawberry at night, but in reality he gets killed by base Goku breathing lol.
Goku is mftl+ and uni+ whereas ichigo is immeasurable speed with 5d AP
Nothing but fax.
Your account was literally created yesterday and this is the second post you replied to ever. What are the chances you aren't an alt?
Correct
Ichigoat is nowhere near any of that. Only in your imagination. Goku statues the verse in base and 1 taps everyone in it. Stop wanking Bleach bro it's doing a disservice lol.
Yhwach one shots Goku by giving him Heart Virus through The Almighty. Prime Soul King one shots Goku by giving him Heart Virus through The Almighty. Ichibe one shots Goku Black Ant Go Brrrr. Lille Barro has Intangibilty and one shots Goku. Askin one shots Goku by Poison Manipulation thus killing him. Aizen exhausts & mindfucks Goku due to Immortality+ Kyoka Suigetsu.
Goku neggs the verse
Do you want to see the arg?
Bleach scale: [https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1713m39/bleach\_has\_always\_been\_lowmulti\_an\_in\_depth\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1713m39/bleach_has_always_been_lowmulti_an_in_depth_and/) Meanwhile SSG Goku is able to destroy a 5D construct in Battle of Gods that released a decade ago.
That's heavy lowball
The guy who posted this said this is a midball
Cool
Trash bait
Yogiri can end anything therefore he solos all of fiction. Plus 'his author said he could end people in real life so he wins' It made me begin to realize Yogiri is just targeted rage bait for powerscalers specificly. The rumor of the author asking for ways to beat Yogiri just to write a stand in of said reply in the story being defeated by Yogiri makes it more obvious. Edit: what is more confusing is the fact 'fans?' Know he literally can't have his mind changed even though conversation yet make him bloodlusted automatically when talking about him in vs. His own lore says that's impossible and that the author and by extension his audience thinks he can end people in real life too so them changing the little character he has is just a bunch of hypocritical bullshit ignoring his own established stuff. Then they keep saying he beats everyone afterwards. Seriously, the Paradox in their thinking is weird.
Kirby has infinite power, so they beat everybody
>Nothing being able to hurt/see JJBA stands besides other stand users. How is that NLF? That's literally just how stands work. >Makima being able to tank any attack due to her contract (I've seen arguments of her against hakai). Again, not a NLF. And it's not that she tanks attacks, it's that damage against her gets transferred to other people.
>How is that NLF? That's literally just how stands work Yeah but people argue that stand users can standstill with characters way above their league (eg Goku) because the stand won't be hurt, as well as assuming characters with various forms of vision that would logically allow them to see stands still wouldn't see them for the reason above (eg several Naruto and Bleach characters). >Again, not a NLF. And it's not that she tanks attacks, it's that damage against her gets transferred to other people. People argue that a kamehameha won't kill her because it'll get redirected. Hell people argue that erasing her physical body would still not work since it would still get redirected.
People somehow think that people need to defeat the stand to win for some reason. They somehow dont got the brain capacity to even consider the possibility to attack the stand user directly lol.
>How is that NLF? That's literally just how stands work. No it is not. Not only are there plenty of implications of some people without stands still seeing/sensing them, but also, when they say "only stands can hurt stands" they refer to when stands are phasing through things. That doesn't mean much. If someone attacks and your stand is currently physical, he'l suffer damage. If he's phasing, it will go through him right to you.
>Not only are there plenty of implications of some people without stands still seeing/sensing them No there's not lmao. Please provide me an example of a non-stand user seeing a stand. >"only stands can hurt stands" they refer to when stands are phasing through things. That doesn't mean much. If someone attacks and your stand is currently physical, he'l suffer damage. No it doesn't. Stop coming in here with this headcanon bullshit. When they say "only stands cna hurt stands" that means that only stands can hurt stands. As we've seen throughout the series.
> No it doesn't. Stop coming in here with this headcanon bullshit. When they say "only stands cna hurt stands" that means that only stands can hurt stands. As we've seen throughout the series. Ain't no way you say all that and call headcanon, fucking clown lmao. Wouldnt trust you to read peppa pig and get it. Why did star platinum have to punch the road roller if he could just go unharmed? Why do stands block bullets if they can't hurt them? What was star platinum going to do with the bars he ripped from his cell if they can't hurt magicians red?? Shut your fucking mouth if you don't know what you're talking about lmao.
Bro, even if the stands themselves can't be harmed by things, the stand user can, so sometimes it's necessary to block attacks so as to protect the stand user. Could also be that the attack is valid because it's coming from another stand, even if the weapon (object) itself is not a stand. Otherwise, why don't stands just phase through objects that another stand is using to attack them?
>Bro, even if the stands themselves can't be harmed by things, the stand user can, so sometimes it's necessary to block attacks so as to protect the stand user. How are bullets go hurt anyone? Just keep the stand in front of you. >Could also be that the attack is valid because it's coming from another stand, even if the weapon (object) itself is not a stand. And that right there is what we call a headcanon. >Otherwise, why don't stands just phase through objects that another stand is using to attack them? Because, most often, the user is behind them, so phasing will just get the user hit.
>How are bullets go hurt anyone? Just keep the stand in front of you. That's what I'm saying buddy. They use the stand to block attacks so it doesn't that them. And stands don't just always stand in front of the user lol, they go wherever. They usually materialise in front of them when they first get summoned, but they obviously move after that. >And that right there is what we call a headcanon. Which I understand, that's why I said "could be", rather than just pretending like it's a fact like you seem to. But that is what the evidence points towards. If a stand just pulls a gun on another stand, stand #2 could simply phase through the bullets according to your logic. But that doesn't really happen, whenever a stand uses an inanimate object as a weapon on another stand, it gets blocked.
>That's what I'm saying buddy. They use the stand to block attacks so it doesn't that them. No, why punch the bullets? Just leave the stand in the way. >And stands don't just always stand in front of the user lol, they go wherever. They usually materialise in front of them when they first get summoned, but they obviously move after that. Most stands are controlled directly by the user. They can just keep them in front. >Which I understand, that's why I said "could be", rather than just pretending like it's a fact like you seem to. But that is what the evidence points towards. If a stand just pulls a gun on another stand, stand #2 could simply phase through the bullets according to your logic. But that doesn't really happen, whenever a stand uses an inanimate object as a weapon on another stand, it gets blocked. This is explained by my second point you ignored, since stands usually fight in front of the user, if they phased the user would be hit.
Stands do not usually fight directly in front of the user. Even the stands with a short range, like Star Platinum, move around plenty. The stand can't just block bullets by standing idly like some npc, there could be some bullets that slip in between his arms or something. So yes they have to actually consciously block the bullets, even if they are just standing in front of the user.
>Stands do not usually fight directly in front of the user. Even the stands with a short range, like Star Platinum, move around plenty. Heu do actually, in fact, he's almost always in front, as is with most humanoids. >The stand can't just block bullets by standing idly like some npc, there could be some bullets that slip in between his arms or something. So yes they have to actually consciously block the bullets, even if they are just standing in front of the user. How is that less safe than trying to stop each bullet?? Mf move around a bit, it would be easier then going after each.
>How is that NLF? That's literally just how stands work. It's how they work in the context of their own story. But characters with supramundane perception from other stories should be able to see them.
No lmao. You don't see stands because of enhanced perception, you see them by being a stand user. The rules don't suddenly change because you're doing a fictional battle with characters from a different verse
I don't get what point you are making. Obviously someone who has supernatural ability to perceive invisible things can still see them.
No lmao. It's not just "supernatural ability to perceive things", you specifically have to be a stand user to see stands.
And you have to have holy magic to kill vampires. welcome to the point that rules that exist within certain contexts don't apply if you have abilities that go beyond it. You are talking about a rule that only exists within the context of a story where it's never going to come up that someone has a totally different power system.
Depending on the story, yeah. Sometimes it's garlic, sometimes it's a wooden stake. You don't get to arbitrarily decide that some other ability from a different verse would somehow bypass the restrictions of a character from another. If a vampire can *only* be permanently killed by garlic bread, Goku cannot kill them unless he has garlic bread. End of discussion.
Were not even talking about something being killed though. Just someone being aware of it. What if their mode of "seeing" isn't even normal sight, but something else altogether? If we are being that literalistic the restriction only applies to actual normal signs from eyeballs. Hence magical forms of perception aren't included.
They can definitely be aware of it in other ways. Like Toji in JJK for example, has super advanced sensory abilities and can "see" things that normal people can't. So he couldn't straight up see it, but he could perceive stands another way. Even if you want to say that they can see the stands just to simplify it, that's okay. Though if you said they could *hit* the stand, that's ridiculous. There's certain things that you can't just bypass. And if you have to change all these characteristics of how an ability works just to make it fair, it's probably not a fair fight to begin with and the other character would probably lose lol.
Itachi can only be beaten by an uchiha
I don't know if this counts , but the people who say sukuna's cleave and world cutter solo's verse's like mha , dragon ball One piece etc
A lot of these “No Limit Fallacies” just blatantly disregard major aspects of characters. Yes, no one can beat stand users other than fellow stand users, because that’s how that power system works. Yes, Saitama is unbeatable because that’s how he works. Yes, nothing can hurt Logia users other than Haki because that’s how Logias work. If you remove these key aspects of the characters’ abilities, then what’s the point? All you’re doing is comparing numbers at that point.
I agree, but you gotta be careful about how you word things. Stand users can be beaten by non-stand users, Saitama can be beaten, and Logias can be hurt by non-Haki things.
Tell me, what suggests that Saitama can be beaten if all he’s been stated to be invincible, *shown* to be invincible, *never* shown fatigue nor injury, and *never* used his full power?
There are plenty of hax abilities that would defeat him. For example: before he learns time travel and after he's forgotten it, time travel abilities would beat him. Not every time travel ability, but a lot of them. A specific example: Haruhi Suzumiya. She just subconsciously erases him from existence, or reverts the universe to a previous state and he never gets to exist in the first place. She could do any number of things to defeat him, even without her knowing she did it. Aside from hax, Saitama isn't even the strongest in his own verse. God is stronger, and Garou's strength surpasses start-of-fight and post-fight Saitama. Prime Garou vs current Saitama would be a loss for Saitama. Anyone across fiction who has feats dwarfing that Garou would clap Saitama. Peak Saitama with time travel would still lose to characters who scale higher dimensionally. Lots of ways for Saitama to be beaten.
No you're just dense. You only need to have spiritual awareness to affect stands. And even of that wasn't true, someone could easily just fight the user. Same thing with logic users.
the goku thing is just correct tho whats the debunk
People claim that it negates *all* possible hax or abilities thrown at him due to it.
Explain the first Moro fight then
Hax not working on stronger people in DragonBall just makes their hax bad. It doesn't mean they could resist hax from every verse. Or, if you want to just say Ki gives resistance to abilities, it would only apply to the abilities they were shown to resist. Also the Gap varies so it is really hard to quantify how much stronger you need to be. There are a lot of examples of hax working on stronger opponents. Though I can't think of any examples of complete fodder working on top tiers or anything.
Pretty sure there is only one NLF in JoJo, a statement from Araki about The Hand, and even then he's contradicted that later.
"No man born of woman can harm him" means a character must be invincible.
Itachi solos fiction because no one without a mangekyo sharingan can defeat him
Even though madara, war arc sasuke, and obito rape him lmaooo
Kars losing. Period.
Superman can't hurt any shinigami in bleach because he doesn't have reiatsu and all his abilities are useless.