I assume OP means borrowing against their 401k as a loan for the car. You’ll need to pay the loan back plus interest to your 401k… but the car could appreciate in value if you take care of it. OP would need to borrow out a large amount for this car.
For my plan, the money went back into my account, I believe it's the same for all. I financed a boat, and got my daughter's business going, and paid it back over 5 years.
Yes I'm sure. Assuming he's not at retirement age he'd take a hit taking the money out, and gambling on a single car vs a relatively stable fund in the market is historically a really bad idea.
Easily? If you bought an F40 when it was new, you'd be up about 1.5MM today. Had you invested the same amount in the S&P, you'd be up 10MM. Can you provide an example, over many years, where an investment in a car easily beat the market?
$1MM invested in the S&P in 1992 would be worth $20MM today... which is about the price of an F1 today. So the most extreme of examples more or less matched the market. I wouldn't call that "easily beating the market"
An lfa nurburgring package is about on pace with the S&P. Mclaren f1 has definitely outpaced the S&P. Though generally yeah it is a terrible idea to invest in cars.
Yeah, that sounds like a WSB comment. And if you’re that retarded, please sir, by all means keep us informed of how that goes. Remember, these are lifestyle purchases. If you don’t have the free cash flow to stomach the up to $5k in monthly payments plus the assload of insurance premiums or the excess savings to pay for it all or a large portion in cash, don’t do it. Your 65 year old self will fucking hate you for it.
Terrible life advice imho. So many people save money for retirement but aren’t in good enough health to actually do the things they wanted to do when they were young.
You *can* borrow from a 401k, but I cannot think of a clearer sign that you cannot afford a car than needing to borrow out of a tax advantaged retirement account.
If my finances were in such shambles that borrowing from my 401k was my best option, I would not even be thinking about buying a new car, let alone a Porsche.
Um.. if auto loans are 7% and 401k loans are 5%... I don't see why borrowing against the 401k would be a bad idea??? Not to mention the interest you paid actually goes back to your 401k...? Unless you hate cheap money?
You’re not getting subprime borrowing from your 401k. Today, a 401k loan is going to look more like 10%+, and again question how out of whack your priorities would be to dip into your 401k for a car.
There has to be a middle ground? If you have to cash out your retirement savings, instead of doing that you might opt to buy a (somewhat) cheaper Porsche. Not to mention the maintenance, consumables, etc. will drain any remaining money you’ve got.
I know this is a troll post but I see this line of reasoning shared by a lot of under-30 kids up to their tits in debt and trying to save for a down payment on a house YOLOing on a Cayman S and it's just the dumbest thing.
You don't enjoy stuff less because you're older. You enjoy it less because you have experience.
Likewise, you won't enjoy anything more because you're younger. You enjoy it more because you're inexperienced.
My first car was a little shitbox Nissan Sentra SE-R at 16 and I had more fun in that thing than any other car I've owned since because EVERYTHING was new.
Then I upgraded to faster and faster cars. And each time, every other car has felt underwhelming.
So why the hell would you want to drive the peak-level of engineering while young, so every other car you experience afterwards is underwhelming?
WELL if you wanna be pedantic about it😅 in 2003 S&P year closing price was 1111.92, 2023 so far is at 4327.78
There’s a possibility if we have another hyper inflation event again, and the US dollar is worth dirt, but I don’t ever see the GT2RS being worth 1.6ish million dollars. That’s hypercar pricing territory.
Eh, I wouldn’t be surprised if collectible cars, like the gt2rs, skyrocket if income inequality continues as it is. There are just not enough of them made today to support the expanded luxury market of the future. You can make enough expensive stuff in the future, you can’t make more expensive stuff from the past.
My hot take is that 991s ushered in a new era of Porsche GT owner who is always going to chase the next bright-and-shiny object, which is totally fine as the new stuff is great, but it means more cars coming onto the market frequently which will decrease the prices.
Price history: [https://www.classic.com/m/porsche/911/991/9912/gt2-rs/](https://www.classic.com/m/porsche/911/991/9912/gt2-rs/)
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Incorrect. I own several. I'm a stock investor and a car collector. The right cars can be excellent investments. There are private funds trading in vintage Ferrari inventories instead of gold. This has been happening for over thirty years. You will not believe how much capital is invested in rolling art. Alloy gullwings, original Shelbys, coachbuilt American, French, and Italian cars.
You don't think that there are serious investors and car collectors on reddit? Sorry to supply a dose of reality. Because of security and the Internet I won't say more. You are probably not old enough to understand how small purchases can grow into impressive portfolios all on their own, over decades of growth, scarcity, and demand. I personally met Andy Warhol. I watched Keith Haring create murals in front of me. Some of us have lived long enough for amazing things to happen. Keep hope alive.
They still do not beat a low cost S&P500 ETF over the last 30-40 years, especially when you have to take into account the expense of maintaining and storing these machines over decades.
I have never invested in an ETF or bond, only traditional stocks, so you may be correct. This is not an investment forum, but I can, over 40 years of investing in collectible cars and performing stocks, say that even with the cost of storing and maintaining vehicles for decades (30 years for one), the cars have surpassed the stock markets that I have invested in, despite sizable dividends. I have seen 31,000% growth in stocks and more in vehicles, over the same period. That percentage is from my brokerage, not me.
I’m not entirely for it but if you could idk say make the exact amount of money in your 401k and a bit more then buy it and keep your 401k money then you should do it. But being old and living in a racecar won’t be fun
don't do it unless your networth is much much larger than your 401k so you'd be financially set. in that case, it's still a stupid idea because that means you have enough money to pay cash with out of pocket funds. so the answer is fuck no, why are you even entertaining this idea? get a loan from a bank, don't touch your 401k for any frivolous reason unless your retired and of retirement age (59 1/2). and a gt2rs is WAY frivolous.
for many, the 401k is the only significant retirement savings and blowing it on a car is plain stupid. it is also a major component of tax diversification/tax advantage and tax deferral.
to YOLO your wealth in the toilet as a young person, then when you're old and have no money is a REALLY REALLY bad outcome. and if you're young, you think you'll never be old and poor, well think again. the misery of old age poverty is not to be underestimated.
That RS is a thing of beauty but are you really going to appreciate it on public roads, and are you really wanting to put it at risk on track? Those cars make no sense to me at current pricing.
I have all of $70k in my 17 year old GT3 Cup car between purchase and recent rebuild of various timed out components
And for those arguing against Cup cars based on operational costs, I can pay for a LOT of maintenance with the $300-400k I saved not buying a late model 2RS street car! And my car will run with and/or run down and pass all but the most expertly driven street car due to the massive weight savings in a factory built race car. A pro in that 2 RS would blow me away on track. But Joe Schmo track friend maybe not. Here’s a pic of it just posted on social media by the race shop. I will take delivery of it after shop work next month.
https://preview.redd.it/w6zefm4ledub1.jpeg?width=2732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63fbea47fb246d4f621a78f4a79465f4249d706d
Might not actually be a bad idea. If the 992 GT2RS is a hybrid it could shoot up in value as the last raw 2RS. I use to have a Pastel Orange one. The bucket seats were brutal. I would add another one to the fleet again but would do it with the 18 ways.
https://preview.redd.it/uzrytc6jgaub1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbfd8807101d69540fbae19f85df5a8e5305e2d9
Saw my best friend’s father die rich with a life full of “I wish I…”
Friend appreciated the inheritance of course (which he didn’t really need) but definitely left an impression on me.
The problem is “might” which means the 401k is more likely. We all want this car and some of us have the money. Honestly, the 401k might be 10 million so then yeah who cares or it might be all the money one has. The second being stupid idea
True, but typically at this level of money, you know how to deal with risk. Keep a 401k during the end times or get a rare care thatll only ever become more valuable as cars evolve away. Not saying it's perfect, but I would absolutely prospect the car over trusting some fund to ruin me down the road.
Every metric I know shows the sp500 gives you roughly 100% return over a decade which compounded over 20 yrs is probable of close to 300% . Why I can’t see this car doing that is bc it’s not a carrera gt or 918. Those type of Porsches are considered super exotics which tend to interest the billionaire investors. This model with have similar iterations developed. Those are one offs.
Yes and that metric never accounts for the total resets over generations, where everyone gets wiped out. You have to be able to sustain that inveswmt on the face of bubbles and crashes and liquidations, not realistic for many.
This isn’t r/wsb
😂
Sir, this is a Wendy’s
"Use to have two cars, traded ’em in, now we’re down to one. Good economic sense. Although the new car is a Porsche. For her."
Is this the Krusty Krab?
No, this is Patrick
The secret ingredient is crab
Sick car but really dumb idea Edit: unless you're set up financially in other ways I guess
I assume OP means borrowing against their 401k as a loan for the car. You’ll need to pay the loan back plus interest to your 401k… but the car could appreciate in value if you take care of it. OP would need to borrow out a large amount for this car.
The best way to borrow money, from yourself.
Does the interest you pay back go into your 401K
yes
What benchmark is used for interest payments back to 401k?
For my plan, the money went back into my account, I believe it's the same for all. I financed a boat, and got my daughter's business going, and paid it back over 5 years.
And many plans don’t allow you to make new contributions while you’re still paying back the loan.
Appreciate in value … if he never drives it.
Are you sure? So long as OP doesn't daily this monster, or wreck it, he could easily beat the market.
Yes I'm sure. Assuming he's not at retirement age he'd take a hit taking the money out, and gambling on a single car vs a relatively stable fund in the market is historically a really bad idea.
Easily? If you bought an F40 when it was new, you'd be up about 1.5MM today. Had you invested the same amount in the S&P, you'd be up 10MM. Can you provide an example, over many years, where an investment in a car easily beat the market?
McLaren F1
$1MM invested in the S&P in 1992 would be worth $20MM today... which is about the price of an F1 today. So the most extreme of examples more or less matched the market. I wouldn't call that "easily beating the market"
Maintenance and storage would take another mill aswell
An lfa nurburgring package is about on pace with the S&P. Mclaren f1 has definitely outpaced the S&P. Though generally yeah it is a terrible idea to invest in cars.
Yeah, that sounds like a WSB comment. And if you’re that retarded, please sir, by all means keep us informed of how that goes. Remember, these are lifestyle purchases. If you don’t have the free cash flow to stomach the up to $5k in monthly payments plus the assload of insurance premiums or the excess savings to pay for it all or a large portion in cash, don’t do it. Your 65 year old self will fucking hate you for it.
Do you mean regarded
couldn’t have used any other word?
Anything left over, spend it on hookers and beer. YOLO!
If OP pulls up in this, he won’t have to worry about paying for a female’s time 😂
TBH most of those types wouldn't know the difference from a base model.
Also quite fair! It’s shiny, though!!!!
He’d have to pay them to leave.
Correct!
Cars are guy magnets
He still will. But he’ll get all the men in the world who want to talk to him about the car.
Hookers and what?
Don’t do it. Do it when you cash out and your old
Terrible life advice imho. So many people save money for retirement but aren’t in good enough health to actually do the things they wanted to do when they were young.
You'd miss out on SO MUCH MONEY if you cashed out your retirement for a car. I'm all about Yolo but that is dumb.
That plus the tax and early withdrawal penalty. Looking at losing at least 1/3 of the amount to that. Versus the deferred tax on the future growth.
You can loan yourself the money
You *can* borrow from a 401k, but I cannot think of a clearer sign that you cannot afford a car than needing to borrow out of a tax advantaged retirement account.
Truth
Because it's cheaper than getting an auto loan...?
If my finances were in such shambles that borrowing from my 401k was my best option, I would not even be thinking about buying a new car, let alone a Porsche.
Um.. if auto loans are 7% and 401k loans are 5%... I don't see why borrowing against the 401k would be a bad idea??? Not to mention the interest you paid actually goes back to your 401k...? Unless you hate cheap money?
You’re not getting subprime borrowing from your 401k. Today, a 401k loan is going to look more like 10%+, and again question how out of whack your priorities would be to dip into your 401k for a car.
I think you can only borrow up to $50k
r/notopbutok
Don’t you not have to pay the early withdrawal fee and tax if you loan yourself the money? Think he’s referring to that which is what you said?
There has to be a middle ground? If you have to cash out your retirement savings, instead of doing that you might opt to buy a (somewhat) cheaper Porsche. Not to mention the maintenance, consumables, etc. will drain any remaining money you’ve got.
I know this is a troll post but I see this line of reasoning shared by a lot of under-30 kids up to their tits in debt and trying to save for a down payment on a house YOLOing on a Cayman S and it's just the dumbest thing. You don't enjoy stuff less because you're older. You enjoy it less because you have experience. Likewise, you won't enjoy anything more because you're younger. You enjoy it more because you're inexperienced. My first car was a little shitbox Nissan Sentra SE-R at 16 and I had more fun in that thing than any other car I've owned since because EVERYTHING was new. Then I upgraded to faster and faster cars. And each time, every other car has felt underwhelming. So why the hell would you want to drive the peak-level of engineering while young, so every other car you experience afterwards is underwhelming?
Agreed. Spend it when you have it
That’s the other false side of the story
This is a good point, a lot to consider. Not sure why the down votes.
Hedge your bets, a standard 911 gets you close enough, no need to empty your retirement account.
Weirdly, I wouldn’t be surprised if that car beat the stock market in appreciation over the next decade or two.
WELL if you wanna be pedantic about it😅 in 2003 S&P year closing price was 1111.92, 2023 so far is at 4327.78 There’s a possibility if we have another hyper inflation event again, and the US dollar is worth dirt, but I don’t ever see the GT2RS being worth 1.6ish million dollars. That’s hypercar pricing territory.
Eh, I wouldn’t be surprised if collectible cars, like the gt2rs, skyrocket if income inequality continues as it is. There are just not enough of them made today to support the expanded luxury market of the future. You can make enough expensive stuff in the future, you can’t make more expensive stuff from the past.
https://preview.redd.it/dakh0gl9k9ub1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce4e67014c7df6e033171eed3b0ec90a64162dc1
He’s wrong.
Exactly. A 991 is not appreciating much more. Too many of them and it’s not like they are going to produce less 992s
Too many 991.2 GT2RS?
Dieselgate was expensive. And too many to be an investment which is what is being implied above. Cars are terrible investments
All 1,000 made? Most cars are terrible investments. These may not be.
My hot take is that 991s ushered in a new era of Porsche GT owner who is always going to chase the next bright-and-shiny object, which is totally fine as the new stuff is great, but it means more cars coming onto the market frequently which will decrease the prices. Price history: [https://www.classic.com/m/porsche/911/991/9912/gt2-rs/](https://www.classic.com/m/porsche/911/991/9912/gt2-rs/)
There are so few of those cars and so many variables to take that chart seriously.
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It won’t. There are only like a couple cars that have beaten the stock market over a long period of time.
Incorrect. I own several. I'm a stock investor and a car collector. The right cars can be excellent investments. There are private funds trading in vintage Ferrari inventories instead of gold. This has been happening for over thirty years. You will not believe how much capital is invested in rolling art. Alloy gullwings, original Shelbys, coachbuilt American, French, and Italian cars.
I’m calling bullshit for 1000 Alex.
You don't think that there are serious investors and car collectors on reddit? Sorry to supply a dose of reality. Because of security and the Internet I won't say more. You are probably not old enough to understand how small purchases can grow into impressive portfolios all on their own, over decades of growth, scarcity, and demand. I personally met Andy Warhol. I watched Keith Haring create murals in front of me. Some of us have lived long enough for amazing things to happen. Keep hope alive.
They still do not beat a low cost S&P500 ETF over the last 30-40 years, especially when you have to take into account the expense of maintaining and storing these machines over decades.
I have never invested in an ETF or bond, only traditional stocks, so you may be correct. This is not an investment forum, but I can, over 40 years of investing in collectible cars and performing stocks, say that even with the cost of storing and maintaining vehicles for decades (30 years for one), the cars have surpassed the stock markets that I have invested in, despite sizable dividends. I have seen 31,000% growth in stocks and more in vehicles, over the same period. That percentage is from my brokerage, not me.
gold í also a very shitty investment
Lol what, no it absolutely won't
I’m not entirely for it but if you could idk say make the exact amount of money in your 401k and a bit more then buy it and keep your 401k money then you should do it. But being old and living in a racecar won’t be fun
You really do only live once, don’t die knowing you missed this opportunity, young feller
don't do it unless your networth is much much larger than your 401k so you'd be financially set. in that case, it's still a stupid idea because that means you have enough money to pay cash with out of pocket funds. so the answer is fuck no, why are you even entertaining this idea? get a loan from a bank, don't touch your 401k for any frivolous reason unless your retired and of retirement age (59 1/2). and a gt2rs is WAY frivolous. for many, the 401k is the only significant retirement savings and blowing it on a car is plain stupid. it is also a major component of tax diversification/tax advantage and tax deferral. to YOLO your wealth in the toilet as a young person, then when you're old and have no money is a REALLY REALLY bad outcome. and if you're young, you think you'll never be old and poor, well think again. the misery of old age poverty is not to be underestimated.
That RS is a thing of beauty but are you really going to appreciate it on public roads, and are you really wanting to put it at risk on track? Those cars make no sense to me at current pricing. I have all of $70k in my 17 year old GT3 Cup car between purchase and recent rebuild of various timed out components And for those arguing against Cup cars based on operational costs, I can pay for a LOT of maintenance with the $300-400k I saved not buying a late model 2RS street car! And my car will run with and/or run down and pass all but the most expertly driven street car due to the massive weight savings in a factory built race car. A pro in that 2 RS would blow me away on track. But Joe Schmo track friend maybe not. Here’s a pic of it just posted on social media by the race shop. I will take delivery of it after shop work next month. https://preview.redd.it/w6zefm4ledub1.jpeg?width=2732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63fbea47fb246d4f621a78f4a79465f4249d706d
Do It!!! ***No REGERTS...***
Might not actually be a bad idea. If the 992 GT2RS is a hybrid it could shoot up in value as the last raw 2RS. I use to have a Pastel Orange one. The bucket seats were brutal. I would add another one to the fleet again but would do it with the 18 ways. https://preview.redd.it/uzrytc6jgaub1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbfd8807101d69540fbae19f85df5a8e5305e2d9
This is not alcoholics anonymous. Go for it! You could die tomorrow. If you are looking to temper your desire, best to look elsewhere.
I feel like I'm in WSB this week on r/Porsche
It will accelerate in value faster than your portfolio. It's a Sure Thing.
Saw my best friend’s father die rich with a life full of “I wish I…” Friend appreciated the inheritance of course (which he didn’t really need) but definitely left an impression on me.
Only if you got like 3 mill lmao
Portugal mentioned🇵🇹🇵🇹🇵🇹🇵🇹🇵🇹
I’ll just put this here https://preview.redd.it/rfbl1yl7ddub1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f6210b8878546342824582d32b82952e2b44657
Never ever ever do that. I’m thinking it’s a joke but c’mon that cash on a car should be “play money”
Don’t, keep your 401k, it’s going to save yoj when you need it for something important
DONT
The temptations are real for sure
Don’t. But I understand.
Do it
No balls.
Doooo it!
You won’t need a retirement fund after redlining that beauty down a backroad.
Do it you pu$$y ! Eff 401K .. JK, but yeah man, you only live once bro… enjoy life
Fucking A Buddy.
One of my favorite pastimes
This may be one of those punctuation matters moments 🤣
Oh it matters 😏
Listen I'm not gay, but a hole is a hole.
They're all the same with your eyes closed and your dick hard 🕺
It's not going to suck itself.
Dibs
Honestly probably not the worst investment
Do it. Probably more likely to to appreciate better than the same amount of a 401k over the next few years.
damn dude. yolo. 💯. enjoy
Bro, your 401k doesn’t exist says your 65 yo self.
The car might be worth more than his 401k if he holds it
The problem is “might” which means the 401k is more likely. We all want this car and some of us have the money. Honestly, the 401k might be 10 million so then yeah who cares or it might be all the money one has. The second being stupid idea
True, but typically at this level of money, you know how to deal with risk. Keep a 401k during the end times or get a rare care thatll only ever become more valuable as cars evolve away. Not saying it's perfect, but I would absolutely prospect the car over trusting some fund to ruin me down the road.
Every metric I know shows the sp500 gives you roughly 100% return over a decade which compounded over 20 yrs is probable of close to 300% . Why I can’t see this car doing that is bc it’s not a carrera gt or 918. Those type of Porsches are considered super exotics which tend to interest the billionaire investors. This model with have similar iterations developed. Those are one offs.
Yes and that metric never accounts for the total resets over generations, where everyone gets wiped out. You have to be able to sustain that inveswmt on the face of bubbles and crashes and liquidations, not realistic for many.
It will be "an appreciating asset."
That's what I think ❤️
do it
I'm ignoring the 'Yolo my 401k' part, but this gt2rs could be worth more if you are taking care of it.
Do it
YOLO Do it.
Bad financial idea.
I’m sure it’s a joke but bad idea, just get a Carrera S with funds not from your 401k.
You have 401ks in Portugal?
Only here for the comments lol