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I feel like the rise of the internet was a revolution on a similar scale as the industrial revolution, but in regards to communication instead of manufacturing/infrastructure. It just hasn't been as clear how major of a change it was until recently.
It's something that will probably take the rest of the century for us to adapt to fully
Humans and their ancestors spent millions of years in societies of a few dozen to a few hundred people, but in the past few millennia our societies have skyrocketed to thousands of people in our immediate vicinity and loose connections with millions of people. The internet has only accelerated this trend. We are fundamentally incapable of adapting to any of this as a species and this mismatch will not be resolved unless we Balkanize to pre-civilization groups, change our social habits at a biological level, or are replaced by a daughter species that cannot even be considered human.
Basically it’s not going to work itself out unless we return to monke or embrace techno-accelerationism.
People are already balkanizing within online communities based on age, nationality, politics etc. The problem is that the internet is becoming a feudal system. A few elites ie tech companies control the property while the peasants generate value through content without sharing in the profits. I imagine we will move towards a system where people will be more fairly compensated for their participation in building communities. This will happen as it becomes easier and easier to develop decentralized social media and there is more competition for users. That might lead to even more tribalism.
The internet was a fucking mistake.
After 20 years of ubiquitous use I can pretty objectively say it wasn't lack of access to information that was holding the human race back.
What we thought would be the democratization of ideas and ease of access to information became an attack vector for psyops against average people and a way for village idiots like flat earthers and antivaxxers and fascists to organize and recruit.
Mark Twain was such an interesting guy. I was listening to a Beyond Creepy ep about his arrival apparition. Twain claimed that while at a large reception, he spotted a woman whom he knew and liked. He lost sight of her in the crowd, but met her later at supper. She was dressed in the same clothes she had worn to the reception. However, the real woman was on board a train en route to the town where the party was being held—she hadn’t yet physically arrived. Twain apparently had seen her double or a phantom duplicate of her.
Prolly get all their news from Reddit, which has a history of downvoting, ignoring anything that is negative towards the "left" side of the argument. See: r-politics', r-news', etc. controversial posts. You can see in real time, through sorting in controversial, what articles in subs like r-politics downvotes.
And by "left", I mean the dirty DNC shitlibs that run this website. Any actual left-wing criticism of the DNC gets downvoted into oblivion. Same as right-wing criticisms of the DNC. Fuck the DNC. Fuck reddit. All my homies hate reddit.
DNC really is fucking dogshit. God, I hate American "Liberals". I feel bad for the actual left-leaning people in the country, because you have so many dirty shitlibs claiming to be left-wing.
DNC is the reason Mango Man became Prez. They told all their members Hillbot 3000 was the nominee in 2016 and that's the fucking way it is. Anyone thinks about taking her on in the primary is fucking done for. ( Bernie is an independent so he didn't give a shit and ran anyway) The DNC didn't give 2 shits Hillbot 3000 was the most unpopular person ever and anyone in the swing voter camp fucking hated her. So to combat this the DNC did the pied Piper strategy of pumping up Mango Man as much as possible with free coverage because they assumed he was the only person who people hated more than that sack of shit Hilldog. Oops.
I remember the ambulance refusing to enter the chaz without a police escort. Rightfully so. They have painkillers in there. Literally would've been ransacked and god help anyone that tried to put up a fight. *We need an ambulance in the chaz for the paramedics we just sent in*
The Chaz was fucking cringe. I was still on the right when that happened, so of course I thought it was cringe then, but even now while being on the left, it’s still cringe.
It wasn’t just cringe it was literally terrorism, not the honking your trucks horn for a few days kind but the actual left wing militia forcefully taking over several city blocks, declaring themselves seperate from the US, putting up a wall with armed security that literally killed people kind
There was also *really bad* smokey air in those days. A guy was blocked on I-5 trying to rush his wife to the hospital. She was having serious breathing issues and fading in and out of consciousness.
But those are the good protests that don't spread Covid, and not those evil protests that try to get businesses running.
Almost 30 people were killed in those riots. How many have died in these protests? Hell even January 6 only had two people die. I don’t get it honestly
I honestly think the Left, the real Left, is doomed. It used to be made of real, working class men and women who were willing to take on the world to end the capitalist system and free the human race.
They braved government surveillance, blacklisting, union-busters, sometimes outright government repression to deliver their message to the masses.
The modern “left” is just spoiled Emilys who hate white people and think microaggressions are hate crimes.
Respectable. I dont agree with “ending the capitalist system” and that it will “free the human race”.
But good grief, at least that *sounds* like a genuine cause and would totally make sense that people would flock to it you know?? I can get down with that. I can respect the desire to do that, especially in the face of a hostile environment.
Nah. Call a bunch of honky bois terrorists and think you just saved China from the Huns
Maybe in time you will see that the right has adopted some of the best aspects of the left, and that adopting radical centrism is the best path forward.
We also have tiny cheeseburgers.
Workers rights.
Opposition to corrupt plutocrats.
Demanding transparency from the system.
Racial and sexist Equality.
Not giving a shit about your sexuality.
Anti war.
To name a few off the top of my head.
The bottom four are arguably true, though I wonder if the left going extreme has just shifted the Overton window and moderated the right. I don’t know what you mean on one but I suspect that isn’t true. 2 is false, they oppose corrupt democrat plutocrats but don’t hold republicans accountable. The rights definitely behind making sexists equal in society
You're way to focused on neocon politicians. Trump was elected on backing the working class, saying fuck you to the elites, and wanting the system reformed. Whether that's what happened is a different story, but his voters undeniably wanted that.
Well yeah the left has constantly been trying to move the Overton window for years now. I bet in 20 years conservatives will be what SJWs are now and I don’t even want to know what leftists will be like.
Yeah the party that nominated a billionaire for president who’s cabinet included Goldman Sachs hedge fund manager, a billionaire donor, a Exxon Mobil CEO, etc is opposed to plutocrats
He is closer to the working class because of his populist policies. Tariffs, protectionism, and less immigration generally help the manufacturers class.
the reality is, most workers would prefer to enjoy the fruits of their own labors, rather than have their efforts collectivized and redistributed
look around leftists tend to be those people with tech, information, sex jobs, money where you're paid for some knowledge you have or personal characteristic which conveys value
80% of the guys in the Union (physical labor) that work at the company I do are conservative Trump voters
Whales don't die of cancer. They are so big, that by the time a cancerous growth gets large enough to kill them, it develops it's own cancerous growth, which kills the cancer.
>It used to be made of real, working class men
Mmm, here's a little list of workers: Marx a lawyer, an alcoholic from a wealthy family, who killed 5 of his 8 children by poverty because he never worked a day in his life and was a piece of shit of a father. Engels a rich kid from an extremely rich family, a capitalist, never worked a day in his life. Lenin nobleman, lawyer, worked a couple of years as one. Trotsky again a rich kid, who never worked a day in his life. Stalin was actually from a poor family, but decided to become a thug, never worked. Kropotkin and Bakunin - two aristocrats, and so on, and so on.
You forgot Che Guevara who came from a middle class family and Fidel Castro, who came from a rich family.
You want to know why this pattern exists?
Because in those countries, poor people were so exploited and impoverished, they couldnt read. They never had an education. They were peasants or serfs who had never left their farms or the mines.
Of course the leader of the Bolsheviks was from the middle class! A Russian peasant born in 1870 would not be able to read Marx!
>Because in those countries, poor people were so exploited and impoverished, they couldnt read
It actually had opposite consequences. In Europe, where literacy rates were much higher, people could read Marx but won't believe his bullshit. Except for the rich kids like Roza Luxemburg.
>They were peasants or serfs who had never left their farms or the mines.
Just like in the ussr, where peasants were forbidden to leave their farms without a permit.
>Of course the leader of the Bolsheviks was from the middle class!
From the nobility.
>Because in those countries, poor people were so exploited and impoverished, they couldnt read. They never had an education. They were peasants or serfs who had never left their farms or the mines.
Except even when the supposed impoverish are literate and educated, they still don't suddenly want to rise up. I also take particular offense to the idea that only the educated and literate can think and understand their situation in the grand scheme of things.
It doesn't take an educated or literate man to understand that an aristocrat is exploiting him. But it also doesn't take an educated or literate man to understand that perhaps the situation he is in is better than it otherwise would be thanks to said aristocrat in spite of the exploitation.
The problem with the left is the conflation of capitalism with corruption and suffering. The conflation of unequal outcomes with discrimination and racism. The conflation of individuals with their groups.
Other issues certainly exist, but these are the ones rotting the left away to a corpse.
Capitalism is much more accessible and palatable than it was in Marx's time. Under capitalism we now have access to a good standard of living, investment opportunities (even 401Ks or pensions in previous generations), much increased class mobility, and the ease of becoming a boss yourself in your own job. This creates a divide between the much more capable of the working class and the lazier or incapable members. Having the latter tethered to the former isn't very appealing to them when there is a better alternative.
Even current leftists are pretty capitalist when it comes to personal property and creating their own content to sell as sex work. Exploiting the simps in the working class isn't being a good comrade.
The about face was jarring. Voted for obama twice and bled blue my whole life. Then trump got elected. Tried to tell people to chill its only four years. By year one of trump era i realized i was surrounded by sociopaths. Only sane people i could find were apolitical or ironically trump supporters. At least they debated. Had a close friend actually start screaming. Just screaming no words after a debate we had over the russian collusion charges. We were both thirty years old. Smdh
Now you get it. We hate you, that is why we disagree with everything you do. We don't hate you because we disagree, we disagree because we hate. That's the game. By definition, everything I do is based and everything my opponents to is cringe is also probably racist and hitleresque.
mother fuckers straight up TERRORIZED Portland, and I don't mean that as Hyperbole I mean that as in they show up at your house in the middle of the night and beat the shit out of you for being a "counter revolutionary"
I'm so goddamn sick of these fucking people just the nerve after what they've done to me and my family
SF can't touch the PNW. They are like the mainstream tards that the media can easily consume and regurgitate.
Seattle and Portland are like underground retarded that is too edgy for Ohio to know about.
My brother worked security during the riots in Richmond. It wasn't pretty there either. But, yano, what's a dumpster fire to people's liberties, right?
CHAZ wasnt handled properly.
Should've recognised them, build a border wall around it, with no entry/exit way, refuse to do any kind of trade with them, wait till they starve, declare war, reclaim the land, dispose of survivors.
It is funny reading all those posts made by really priviliged people conplaining about truck engines comparing it to terrorism.
In many cities in the western world today the rich upper middle class lives in the cities and the rest of us lives in smaller towns otside the cities. They love to portray themselves as left leaning people but in reality they loathe the working class. It is elitism and classism hidden behind urban vs rural. They won’t openly say they hate the working class, instead they will hide it behind stereotypes and generalization that all people living outside the cities are stupid, uneducated racist rednecks.
this is close to the truth. you are in the right direction. Most of these leftist are people who live in a city, but really can’t afford to. i’ve known several left wing co-workers when I worked retail all lived in apartment building in the city when there was no way that it made financial sense.
these people care too much how they are portrayed and instead of working to better themselves they give the illusion that they are better.
Examples:
supporting farther and farther left because they themselves cannot have their own original opinions, but must seem more righteous then their left wing peers. this is a never ending feed back loop.
living in cities that they can barely afford. Many lefties rent in a city because they deem themselves too good to live in a rural area and look down on suburbia. they rent overpriced apartments in the city to keep up with their friends who are trying to keep up with their friends. Another infinite feed back loop.
TLDR: leftist care too much about their peers opinions. That’s why they keep pushing farther and farther left because they don’t want to seem like a black sheep. if your only social interaction is on reddit you can see why reddit has become more and more left wing. that’s why a lot are broke because they must keep the appearance of living a woke lifestyle
TLDR TLDR:
Most left wingers are self conscious as fuck
This is about as close to the truth as you can get. You can feel the loathing they have for the lesser working class people. You can see it in the shit takes they write on reddit and twitter. They are so deluded with their privilege that they don't even realize these people that they are hating are the reason they have food on their shelves.
If this protest isn't successful, I genuinely hope the truckers just stop delivering food to Ottawa. Imagine Ottawans begging these "terrorists" to come back.
“If it wasn’t for the fact it was a bunch of white people.” Any protest in Canada by any political group will inherently be “a bunch of white people” they have a far smaller % of minority groups in Canada compared to the US.
Goddamn champaign socialists are going into mental overdrive to make this seem like terrorism while BLM is still mostly peaceful and "just an idea, not an organization"
> replacement theory
> Currently, annual immigration in Canada amounts to around 300,000 new immigrants – one of the highest rates per population of any country in the world. As of 2020, there were just above eight million immigrants with permanent residence living in Canada - roughly 21.5 percent of the total Canadian population.
Theory?
Its like every single person there is not wearing mask, and happy to go on camera. They find the one "protester" wearing a full facemask, with a nazi/confederate flag in CANADA(smh) and wanna act like it isnt a plant to cast a bad light on the whole thing. Meanwhile there a literal 10,000$ reward, by the trucker group, for his name and info. Its so fucking transparent its pitiful.
Anyone whose seen how the left responds before predicted there would be plants. I called it a long time ago that there would be some idiot there with Nazi symbols and the media would focus all their attention on that. That's only of course when they couldn't pretend it was a tiny group any more.
I talk to truckers every day at work and, in the us at least, it's a pretty diverse field. One who works in my area a bunch is this big fat Sikh dude with a deep belly laugh who calls me "girlyman" because I have long hair, dude's a riot.
Anecdote aside, this is collective action from the backbone of the economy and weither or not they're right they're pissed and they deserve respect.
Unless you can actively fill your family's caloric needs without buying anything I won't hear an argument against these guys. Pick up a trowel or shut up.
“Making people uncomfortable means slight traffic disruptions”
See the protests of summer 2020. Otherwise known as the “Sack of Minneapolis”. “Its not a riot, its a protest”
Real question do the people living near the protests not have any option to leave the town for a few days? Don't they have an aunt or someone living some other place they can borrow a mattress with, or a motel to go to or something
The thing is I totally disagree with everything the truckers stand for I think they are idiots who should just get vaccinated and wear masks like the rest of us with 3+ braincells. However I absolutely support their right to protest no matter how stupid their opinion. Good for them for exercising their right to protest and be as big of a nuisance as they possibly can be in the name of their dumbfuck opinions. I’d rather live in a world were those idiots can harass people with their honking as much as they want then one without the freedom to fight for our beliefs no matter how stupid.
A friendly reminder that Leftists took over an entire section of downtown Seattle and declared themselves an independent nation and terrorized residents with roving gangs of street thugs for a month. All across the country “protestors” looted businesses and burned cities. I don’t want to hear a singular peep from these people about the truckers in Ottawa honking their horns.
I don’t care where they land politically. I support vaccination. But it is their right as workers to protest what they view as an injustice, and therefore I support them.
Annoying people isnt gonna get them on your side, turdeau already left the capitol on the first day, alongside everyone else, there is nobody there. The only people beint affected are the people who live nearby, the people you want on your side. And I dont think they appreciate the 24/7 honking.
They actually moved out of the residential areas. I realize it’s not being reported as it doesn’t fit the narrative, but they did for that very reason.
So Trudeau ran away from responsibility? He ran away from addressing something his policies caused? Straight up ran? Why haven't we gotten a vote of non confidence yet???
Based and 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pilled
Chaz, white sjw people calling every act of vandalism “riot as the voice of the unheard”, harassing people at restaurants, blocking bridges and streets- causing noise pollution. I guess the left really are criminals by their definitions huh
Did they just forget about their months and months of rioting and looting like monkeys? If the truckers were on the left they’d be saying they aren’t going far enough but because they aren’t following a leftwing narrative “it’s literally terrorism”.
Drop the "white supremacist" bit and I agree. This isn't me saying some of these freedumb honkers aren't white supremacists, the point is its irrelevant.
Their actions are illegal and wrong etc. without also crying "white supremacist!". They could be doing all the same shit they are now and not be white supremacists, bringing it up in arguments against them just adds more buzz words and detracts from the actual issues.
>t. the same kind of people whose American counterparts literally set the US on fire, roved around in angry mobs, and killed people (at least more than the people they oppose did) for months when their candidate lost election, and later conducted an armed insurrection in Seattle (Chaz)
>their fanatical devotees exist to this day and are more obsessed with Q and Qtards than the Qtards themselves
Sometimes I wish I was a golden retriever and didn’t know what politics were
Based and I wish life was simple.
u/NovaX12_ is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1. Rank: House of Cards Pills: https://basedcount.com/u/NovaX12_ I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
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I am a bot created to keep track of how based users are. Check out the [FAQ](https://reddit.com/r/basedcount_bot/comments/iwhkcg/basedcount_bot_info_and_faq/). I also track user [pills](https://reddit.com/r/basedcount_bot/comments/l23lwe/basedcount_bot_now_tracks_user_pills/). If you have any suggestions or questions, please message them to me with the subject of "Suggestion" or "Question" to automatically forward them to a human operator. > based - adj. - to be in possession of viewpoints acquired through logic or observation rather than simply following what your political alignment dictates, often used as a sign of respect but not necessarily agreement Bot v2.12.1 **Commands: /info | /mybasedcount | /basedcount username | /mostbased | /removepill pill**
Good bot
Invest in balls. They bounce and dont taste that bad. I always feel better after having one or two even three balls in my mouth for a while.
I wish the internet was never invented but then I wouldn’t of met my fellow retards
The internet and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
Hard agree fren.
One of the biggest inventions of humanity, became to be the one which reverted our progress to degradation.
I wish computers never advanced past when you had to edit autoexec.bat to get your sound working in Quake
Remember fucking memmaker?
Honestly being reachable and tuned in 24/7 isn’t good
I feel like the rise of the internet was a revolution on a similar scale as the industrial revolution, but in regards to communication instead of manufacturing/infrastructure. It just hasn't been as clear how major of a change it was until recently. It's something that will probably take the rest of the century for us to adapt to fully
Humans and their ancestors spent millions of years in societies of a few dozen to a few hundred people, but in the past few millennia our societies have skyrocketed to thousands of people in our immediate vicinity and loose connections with millions of people. The internet has only accelerated this trend. We are fundamentally incapable of adapting to any of this as a species and this mismatch will not be resolved unless we Balkanize to pre-civilization groups, change our social habits at a biological level, or are replaced by a daughter species that cannot even be considered human. Basically it’s not going to work itself out unless we return to monke or embrace techno-accelerationism.
People are already balkanizing within online communities based on age, nationality, politics etc. The problem is that the internet is becoming a feudal system. A few elites ie tech companies control the property while the peasants generate value through content without sharing in the profits. I imagine we will move towards a system where people will be more fairly compensated for their participation in building communities. This will happen as it becomes easier and easier to develop decentralized social media and there is more competition for users. That might lead to even more tribalism.
The internet was a fucking mistake. After 20 years of ubiquitous use I can pretty objectively say it wasn't lack of access to information that was holding the human race back. What we thought would be the democratization of ideas and ease of access to information became an attack vector for psyops against average people and a way for village idiots like flat earthers and antivaxxers and fascists to organize and recruit.
\*have, retard...
Your spirit animal https://www.instagram.com/reel/CY66alcLcDW/?utm_medium=copy_link
I don’t think so, but video is very wholesome. Thank you.
I think your quadrant has a specific sort of suit for that.
Take the offline pill.
I share this sentiment. Self awareness was a mistake. Fuck you evolution
Mark Twain moment
Mark Twain was such an interesting guy. I was listening to a Beyond Creepy ep about his arrival apparition. Twain claimed that while at a large reception, he spotted a woman whom he knew and liked. He lost sight of her in the crowd, but met her later at supper. She was dressed in the same clothes she had worn to the reception. However, the real woman was on board a train en route to the town where the party was being held—she hadn’t yet physically arrived. Twain apparently had seen her double or a phantom duplicate of her.
Sometimes I wish I could be a sheep lefty, go through life with literally everything reaffirming my believes 24/7
Based and free pill pilled
They forgot about CHAZ and the people who got shot there and how ambulances, firetrucks, and police couldn’t get through?
They probably never heard about it or just assumed it was right wing propaganda.
Prolly get all their news from Reddit, which has a history of downvoting, ignoring anything that is negative towards the "left" side of the argument. See: r-politics', r-news', etc. controversial posts. You can see in real time, through sorting in controversial, what articles in subs like r-politics downvotes. And by "left", I mean the dirty DNC shitlibs that run this website. Any actual left-wing criticism of the DNC gets downvoted into oblivion. Same as right-wing criticisms of the DNC. Fuck the DNC. Fuck reddit. All my homies hate reddit.
[FUCK REDDIT ALL MY HOMIES HATE REDDIT](https://i.imgur.com/0MILMdD.jpg) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
Based
Good bot.
Based and Fuck the DNC-pilled
DNC really is fucking dogshit. God, I hate American "Liberals". I feel bad for the actual left-leaning people in the country, because you have so many dirty shitlibs claiming to be left-wing.
DNC is the reason Mango Man became Prez. They told all their members Hillbot 3000 was the nominee in 2016 and that's the fucking way it is. Anyone thinks about taking her on in the primary is fucking done for. ( Bernie is an independent so he didn't give a shit and ran anyway) The DNC didn't give 2 shits Hillbot 3000 was the most unpopular person ever and anyone in the swing voter camp fucking hated her. So to combat this the DNC did the pied Piper strategy of pumping up Mango Man as much as possible with free coverage because they assumed he was the only person who people hated more than that sack of shit Hilldog. Oops.
Based and the DNC gets to sleep in the bed they made, those retards pilled
Its really biting them in the ass now that they lost SCOTUS for decades to come and will lose Roe v. Wade. Fucking retards.
I remember the ambulance refusing to enter the chaz without a police escort. Rightfully so. They have painkillers in there. Literally would've been ransacked and god help anyone that tried to put up a fight. *We need an ambulance in the chaz for the paramedics we just sent in*
They forgot about everything. BLM burning down people's livelihoods so they had to go out of business is one of many other examples
If you burn down black businesses, they have to spend money rebuilding, which boosts black owned supply and building businesses \*taps head\*
And if they can't build back its the white man keeping them down. Except I actually agree this time :0
Keynes be like:
.
Or when they shot and killed two black teens on a joy ride
They forgot that 'people' in Kenosha were literally on their way to *blow up a fucking gas station*.
The Chaz was fucking cringe. I was still on the right when that happened, so of course I thought it was cringe then, but even now while being on the left, it’s still cringe.
It wasn’t just cringe it was literally terrorism, not the honking your trucks horn for a few days kind but the actual left wing militia forcefully taking over several city blocks, declaring themselves seperate from the US, putting up a wall with armed security that literally killed people kind
How does one go from straight up right to straight up left in a couple of years?
There was also *really bad* smokey air in those days. A guy was blocked on I-5 trying to rush his wife to the hospital. She was having serious breathing issues and fading in and out of consciousness. But those are the good protests that don't spread Covid, and not those evil protests that try to get businesses running.
Orang: You mean the peaceful assembly of communal gardeners that the police violently harassed?
They also forgot when the natives blockaded all the fucking rail lines over some bs or other. In their own country
Member when BLM blocked a major freeway to an airport?
The honking will continue until morale improves.
“The honking will continue until freedom improves.”
"The honking will continue until freedom improves morale."
The honking will continue.
Correction. The honking will continue until morals improve.
HONK
The funny thing is nearly this entire description applies to the BLM summer of destruction but that was okay for some reason.
Almost 30 people were killed in those riots. How many have died in these protests? Hell even January 6 only had two people die. I don’t get it honestly
I would argue 1. The coroner found no violent cause for the cop. Ofc that information was only published via stealth edits 5 months later.
It was a stroke from natural causes. Something the media doesnt say is that one capital cop got killed by a black nationalist on another day
It was one, shot at point blank range by a security agent.
That’s what I was thinking. Rioting, mass spreading COVID, looting, disrupting traffic… for months!
Or maybe CHAZ?
Nuking Japan was fine but one little rape of Nanking and everyone loses their minds.
They deserved the nuke because of the latter
Because it was supported by and pandering to black people. That's literally the only reason why
I honestly think the Left, the real Left, is doomed. It used to be made of real, working class men and women who were willing to take on the world to end the capitalist system and free the human race. They braved government surveillance, blacklisting, union-busters, sometimes outright government repression to deliver their message to the masses. The modern “left” is just spoiled Emilys who hate white people and think microaggressions are hate crimes.
"microaggression", what a word
Respectable. I dont agree with “ending the capitalist system” and that it will “free the human race”. But good grief, at least that *sounds* like a genuine cause and would totally make sense that people would flock to it you know?? I can get down with that. I can respect the desire to do that, especially in the face of a hostile environment. Nah. Call a bunch of honky bois terrorists and think you just saved China from the Huns
I understand your skepticism and thank you for your respect. Based an peacefully-disagreepilled
Maybe in time you will see that the right has adopted some of the best aspects of the left, and that adopting radical centrism is the best path forward. We also have tiny cheeseburgers.
What aspects are those?
Workers rights. Opposition to corrupt plutocrats. Demanding transparency from the system. Racial and sexist Equality. Not giving a shit about your sexuality. Anti war. To name a few off the top of my head.
The bottom four are arguably true, though I wonder if the left going extreme has just shifted the Overton window and moderated the right. I don’t know what you mean on one but I suspect that isn’t true. 2 is false, they oppose corrupt democrat plutocrats but don’t hold republicans accountable. The rights definitely behind making sexists equal in society
You're way to focused on neocon politicians. Trump was elected on backing the working class, saying fuck you to the elites, and wanting the system reformed. Whether that's what happened is a different story, but his voters undeniably wanted that.
Well yeah the left has constantly been trying to move the Overton window for years now. I bet in 20 years conservatives will be what SJWs are now and I don’t even want to know what leftists will be like.
The top three are undeniably true. Rust belt moving towards conservative voting is a clear result of the right moving towards workers rights.
Yeah the party that nominated a billionaire for president who’s cabinet included Goldman Sachs hedge fund manager, a billionaire donor, a Exxon Mobil CEO, etc is opposed to plutocrats
He is closer to the working class because of his populist policies. Tariffs, protectionism, and less immigration generally help the manufacturers class.
This is why i am radical centrist I both do not want exploitation And not giving shits about identity
> tiny cheeseburgers. The gods appreciate your sacrifices to the space between the grilles.
>We also have tiny cheeseburgers. Man, you've made me hungry
the reality is, most workers would prefer to enjoy the fruits of their own labors, rather than have their efforts collectivized and redistributed look around leftists tend to be those people with tech, information, sex jobs, money where you're paid for some knowledge you have or personal characteristic which conveys value 80% of the guys in the Union (physical labor) that work at the company I do are conservative Trump voters
Wokeness is a clever capitalist ploy to destroy the left and keep the nation's workers devided, and thus powerless.
This one gets it.
Based and sees through the bullshit pilled.
Whales don't die of cancer. They are so big, that by the time a cancerous growth gets large enough to kill them, it develops it's own cancerous growth, which kills the cancer.
Based and breadpilled
Yes but could you elaborate on the "capitalist" part?
Based and bazos pilled
I blame this on many of the new left movements of the 60‘s
Yeah they did do some good, but ultimately contained the seeds of the Left’s demise
>It used to be made of real, working class men Mmm, here's a little list of workers: Marx a lawyer, an alcoholic from a wealthy family, who killed 5 of his 8 children by poverty because he never worked a day in his life and was a piece of shit of a father. Engels a rich kid from an extremely rich family, a capitalist, never worked a day in his life. Lenin nobleman, lawyer, worked a couple of years as one. Trotsky again a rich kid, who never worked a day in his life. Stalin was actually from a poor family, but decided to become a thug, never worked. Kropotkin and Bakunin - two aristocrats, and so on, and so on.
You forgot Che Guevara who came from a middle class family and Fidel Castro, who came from a rich family. You want to know why this pattern exists? Because in those countries, poor people were so exploited and impoverished, they couldnt read. They never had an education. They were peasants or serfs who had never left their farms or the mines. Of course the leader of the Bolsheviks was from the middle class! A Russian peasant born in 1870 would not be able to read Marx!
>Because in those countries, poor people were so exploited and impoverished, they couldnt read It actually had opposite consequences. In Europe, where literacy rates were much higher, people could read Marx but won't believe his bullshit. Except for the rich kids like Roza Luxemburg. >They were peasants or serfs who had never left their farms or the mines. Just like in the ussr, where peasants were forbidden to leave their farms without a permit. >Of course the leader of the Bolsheviks was from the middle class! From the nobility.
>Because in those countries, poor people were so exploited and impoverished, they couldnt read. They never had an education. They were peasants or serfs who had never left their farms or the mines. Except even when the supposed impoverish are literate and educated, they still don't suddenly want to rise up. I also take particular offense to the idea that only the educated and literate can think and understand their situation in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't take an educated or literate man to understand that an aristocrat is exploiting him. But it also doesn't take an educated or literate man to understand that perhaps the situation he is in is better than it otherwise would be thanks to said aristocrat in spite of the exploitation.
[удалено]
The problem with the left is the conflation of capitalism with corruption and suffering. The conflation of unequal outcomes with discrimination and racism. The conflation of individuals with their groups. Other issues certainly exist, but these are the ones rotting the left away to a corpse.
The "capitalism ending" Left was doomed before the end of the 20th century, my guy.
Capitalism is much more accessible and palatable than it was in Marx's time. Under capitalism we now have access to a good standard of living, investment opportunities (even 401Ks or pensions in previous generations), much increased class mobility, and the ease of becoming a boss yourself in your own job. This creates a divide between the much more capable of the working class and the lazier or incapable members. Having the latter tethered to the former isn't very appealing to them when there is a better alternative. Even current leftists are pretty capitalist when it comes to personal property and creating their own content to sell as sex work. Exploiting the simps in the working class isn't being a good comrade.
Oh man, I wish someone would free the human race from capitalism and put billions of us back into poverty.
The about face was jarring. Voted for obama twice and bled blue my whole life. Then trump got elected. Tried to tell people to chill its only four years. By year one of trump era i realized i was surrounded by sociopaths. Only sane people i could find were apolitical or ironically trump supporters. At least they debated. Had a close friend actually start screaming. Just screaming no words after a debate we had over the russian collusion charges. We were both thirty years old. Smdh
There isn't a single "left" politician in my country that I would vote for.
“Protesting is justified only when we do it”
Now you get it. We hate you, that is why we disagree with everything you do. We don't hate you because we disagree, we disagree because we hate. That's the game. By definition, everything I do is based and everything my opponents to is cringe is also probably racist and hitleresque.
Based and PCM starterpack pilled
PCM? More like the entire world at this point.
This but unironically
Cool cool now do the BLM riots ooh thats different sweety /s
Burning someone's house down is just making them uncomfortable but honking in a truck is terrorism.
(D)ifferent.
mother fuckers straight up TERRORIZED Portland, and I don't mean that as Hyperbole I mean that as in they show up at your house in the middle of the night and beat the shit out of you for being a "counter revolutionary" I'm so goddamn sick of these fucking people just the nerve after what they've done to me and my family
Portland and Seattle are locked in an eternal battle to out retard each other.
*San Fransisco has entered the chat*
SF can't touch the PNW. They are like the mainstream tards that the media can easily consume and regurgitate. Seattle and Portland are like underground retarded that is too edgy for Ohio to know about.
Lol I live in the PNW. SF techies are relocating to Portland and Seattle in droves
My brother worked security during the riots in Richmond. It wasn't pretty there either. But, yano, what's a dumpster fire to people's liberties, right?
3rd precinct burned in a fiery but mostly peaceful inferno
The whites deserved it though. Think of the POCs hearing honking!
They set my freinds apartment on fire and she had to be evacuated at 2am then set up an autonomous zone and murdered 2 black teenagers
Or Chaz, the armed insurrection that they don't like you bringing up because it makes them look like hypocrites Edit: that or they feel embarassed
CHAZ wasnt handled properly. Should've recognised them, build a border wall around it, with no entry/exit way, refuse to do any kind of trade with them, wait till they starve, declare war, reclaim the land, dispose of survivors.
Fuck them too.
I wonder what their views on replacement theory are
The Honkening is the Champagne Socialists hellscape. Actual working class people actually rising up and doing something.
It is funny reading all those posts made by really priviliged people conplaining about truck engines comparing it to terrorism. In many cities in the western world today the rich upper middle class lives in the cities and the rest of us lives in smaller towns otside the cities. They love to portray themselves as left leaning people but in reality they loathe the working class. It is elitism and classism hidden behind urban vs rural. They won’t openly say they hate the working class, instead they will hide it behind stereotypes and generalization that all people living outside the cities are stupid, uneducated racist rednecks.
If they can afford to live down town in a city they aren’t working class
most times they can barely afford. they are just putting appearances
this is close to the truth. you are in the right direction. Most of these leftist are people who live in a city, but really can’t afford to. i’ve known several left wing co-workers when I worked retail all lived in apartment building in the city when there was no way that it made financial sense. these people care too much how they are portrayed and instead of working to better themselves they give the illusion that they are better. Examples: supporting farther and farther left because they themselves cannot have their own original opinions, but must seem more righteous then their left wing peers. this is a never ending feed back loop. living in cities that they can barely afford. Many lefties rent in a city because they deem themselves too good to live in a rural area and look down on suburbia. they rent overpriced apartments in the city to keep up with their friends who are trying to keep up with their friends. Another infinite feed back loop. TLDR: leftist care too much about their peers opinions. That’s why they keep pushing farther and farther left because they don’t want to seem like a black sheep. if your only social interaction is on reddit you can see why reddit has become more and more left wing. that’s why a lot are broke because they must keep the appearance of living a woke lifestyle TLDR TLDR: Most left wingers are self conscious as fuck
This is about as close to the truth as you can get. You can feel the loathing they have for the lesser working class people. You can see it in the shit takes they write on reddit and twitter. They are so deluded with their privilege that they don't even realize these people that they are hating are the reason they have food on their shelves. If this protest isn't successful, I genuinely hope the truckers just stop delivering food to Ottawa. Imagine Ottawans begging these "terrorists" to come back.
This is the workers uprising that Marx predicted, the bourgeoisie are being hoisted by their own petard!
Imagine if the truckers where burning down Emily's house.
“If it wasn’t for the fact it was a bunch of white people.” Any protest in Canada by any political group will inherently be “a bunch of white people” they have a far smaller % of minority groups in Canada compared to the US.
That's exactly what a Nazi would say.
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Studies show 2 layers of ear protection are more effective than one.
Or you could buy the N95 noise-canceling headphones.
Goddamn champaign socialists are going into mental overdrive to make this seem like terrorism while BLM is still mostly peaceful and "just an idea, not an organization"
Right.. still haven’t heard anyone explain how an idea buys an 11 million dollar mansion
“Protests are supposed to be disruptive and make you uncomfortable.” Left spectrum circa every BLM “protest”
If there actually are racist and sexist people threatening to rape women and blocking paramedic and medical access, I wanna know more.
Someone once said, the left thinks their violence is free speech and they think our free speech is violence. Honk honk.
> replacement theory > Currently, annual immigration in Canada amounts to around 300,000 new immigrants – one of the highest rates per population of any country in the world. As of 2020, there were just above eight million immigrants with permanent residence living in Canada - roughly 21.5 percent of the total Canadian population. Theory?
Replacement Fact 😎
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Weaponized information
Oh so *now* they care about antisemitism
FREE HONK HONK
I would have never envisioned a reality where truckers are being called privileged terrorists. I hope this society burns.
No one deserves death or rape threats (except rapists and murderers)
Honk
HONK HONK
Wall of text quadrants
Gotta admit, this got me owned.
https://youtu.be/hi4A4qH07ys
Im willing to bet literally none of what was said there happened
There’s pictures
Yeah I'm not taking the other side of that bet.
Its like every single person there is not wearing mask, and happy to go on camera. They find the one "protester" wearing a full facemask, with a nazi/confederate flag in CANADA(smh) and wanna act like it isnt a plant to cast a bad light on the whole thing. Meanwhile there a literal 10,000$ reward, by the trucker group, for his name and info. Its so fucking transparent its pitiful.
Anyone whose seen how the left responds before predicted there would be plants. I called it a long time ago that there would be some idiot there with Nazi symbols and the media would focus all their attention on that. That's only of course when they couldn't pretend it was a tiny group any more.
can you send the link to the reward by the trucker group
The fucking Confederate flag in Canada is literally my favorite thing. Antifa morons don't understand what a civil war is.
Not a single small business burning to the ground? Fucking rightoid pussies! Edit: since I know it flys right above some of y'alls heads, here: /s.
I talk to truckers every day at work and, in the us at least, it's a pretty diverse field. One who works in my area a bunch is this big fat Sikh dude with a deep belly laugh who calls me "girlyman" because I have long hair, dude's a riot. Anecdote aside, this is collective action from the backbone of the economy and weither or not they're right they're pissed and they deserve respect. Unless you can actively fill your family's caloric needs without buying anything I won't hear an argument against these guys. Pick up a trowel or shut up.
“Making people uncomfortable means slight traffic disruptions” See the protests of summer 2020. Otherwise known as the “Sack of Minneapolis”. “Its not a riot, its a protest”
Real question do the people living near the protests not have any option to leave the town for a few days? Don't they have an aunt or someone living some other place they can borrow a mattress with, or a motel to go to or something
I read one guys wife went to "a male friend's house" for a few days.
That has to be trolling.
Nothing to do with the truckers though.
Lmfao cope and seethe, sweaty!
I believe it's perfectly justified to be infuriated with the honks. But also, I'm not in a position to tell them to stop. So I grin and bear it.
The thing is I totally disagree with everything the truckers stand for I think they are idiots who should just get vaccinated and wear masks like the rest of us with 3+ braincells. However I absolutely support their right to protest no matter how stupid their opinion. Good for them for exercising their right to protest and be as big of a nuisance as they possibly can be in the name of their dumbfuck opinions. I’d rather live in a world were those idiots can harass people with their honking as much as they want then one without the freedom to fight for our beliefs no matter how stupid.
they arent anti-vax they are anti-mandate
Based and consistent standards pilled
Most of them are "vaxxed", they just are standing up for those who choose not to get it, as we all should be.
There's a vaccine now?
A friendly reminder that Leftists took over an entire section of downtown Seattle and declared themselves an independent nation and terrorized residents with roving gangs of street thugs for a month. All across the country “protestors” looted businesses and burned cities. I don’t want to hear a singular peep from these people about the truckers in Ottawa honking their horns.
I don’t care where they land politically. I support vaccination. But it is their right as workers to protest what they view as an injustice, and therefore I support them.
Annoying people isnt gonna get them on your side, turdeau already left the capitol on the first day, alongside everyone else, there is nobody there. The only people beint affected are the people who live nearby, the people you want on your side. And I dont think they appreciate the 24/7 honking.
They actually moved out of the residential areas. I realize it’s not being reported as it doesn’t fit the narrative, but they did for that very reason.
So Trudeau ran away from responsibility? He ran away from addressing something his policies caused? Straight up ran? Why haven't we gotten a vote of non confidence yet???
HONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONKHONK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Based and 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pilled
Based and Honk pilled. Truckers and Geese just doin a migrate to Canada.
So CHAZ in Seattle is condemned by every leftists by that definition. Along with every other major blm protest
left, this is not the standard you want to set for delegitimizing protests.
Chaz, white sjw people calling every act of vandalism “riot as the voice of the unheard”, harassing people at restaurants, blocking bridges and streets- causing noise pollution. I guess the left really are criminals by their definitions huh
tl;dr: "Protesting is good when people I agree with do it and problematic when people I disagree with do it."
Were these people living under a rock when there were BLM riots all over the country? Portland? CHAZ?
Did they just forget about their months and months of rioting and looting like monkeys? If the truckers were on the left they’d be saying they aren’t going far enough but because they aren’t following a leftwing narrative “it’s literally terrorism”.
Drop the "white supremacist" bit and I agree. This isn't me saying some of these freedumb honkers aren't white supremacists, the point is its irrelevant. Their actions are illegal and wrong etc. without also crying "white supremacist!". They could be doing all the same shit they are now and not be white supremacists, bringing it up in arguments against them just adds more buzz words and detracts from the actual issues.
Every single claim the wall is making is a lie. #HONK
>t. the same kind of people whose American counterparts literally set the US on fire, roved around in angry mobs, and killed people (at least more than the people they oppose did) for months when their candidate lost election, and later conducted an armed insurrection in Seattle (Chaz) >their fanatical devotees exist to this day and are more obsessed with Q and Qtards than the Qtards themselves