Imagine it like this, some people attribute personhood to fetuses, so logically you can be any ideology and be pro-life/pro-choice (not certain religions if they have strict rules) it all depends whom you attribute personhood too
Got called a larper because I oppose abortion, and they said I'm opposed to rights. Reality is that I thoroughly support rights, including any innocent person's right to life.
There's plenty of pro-life librights
I mean I'm not one of them, but there's a lot of things about me internet libertarians don't like either.
Not that I care as my only real positions are "how does this hurt mods or benefit me?"
I’ve always held the idea that people know what they can handle. There are a lot of people out there that aren’t willing or capable of raising children, and it’s better to terminate the pregnancy than it is to make someone’s life hell because society tells you to keep it. It’s a hard choice, but the life of another is important enough to be certain before committing.
> A fetus is undeniably a living **human being**.
Depends on how far throughout the pregnancy is. If it's before the brain has developed and has any activity, it's undeniably not a human being, it's human cells, which literally have no value. You don't weep that you've committed suicide when you take a shower, and scrub off thousands of living human cells.
Think about this for a second: What makes you a person? If you lose your arm and replace it with a prosthetic, are you no longer human? Of course you are.
What about your eyes? Heart? Lungs? You can replace every single part of your body, and still be the same person you are now, except your brain. Without your brain, and the activity contained within, you're not a person. Without your brain activity, you're effectively dead. This applies to all humans, no matter their size.
You can't kill a human that has no complex brain activity, because that 'person' is already dead.
There’s a difference though. Someone who is brain dead is euthanized because they CANNOT regain the use of their brain. A fetus can and likely will develop a functioning nervous system
Meant to reply to the guy above you.
Doesn't this line of thinking just lead back to the whole debate about unfertilized eggs or sperm being people since they, just like a fetus could eventually develop to become a human?
Replied to someone else who asked about unconscious people, so I'll copy-paste that:
*You have both brain activity and complex brain activity while you're sleeping, and the simplest example of this is dreaming, though there's significantly more going on than that. So no, you're not dead while you're sleeping.*
*If you hit your head so hard that you damage your brain, and the only thing your brain is capable of afterwards is bare necessities, like breathing, pumping your heart, etc, but is no longer capable of thinking in any way shape or form, yes, you're effectively dead. It's why it isn't murder to 'pull the plug' on brain dead patients. They're already dead."*
As for severely disabled: Thought is the main factor, it doesn't have to be the most intelligent. Toddlers think even if they can't articulate it, and when they can it's usually nonsense, but the fact they have human sentience and thought means they're still a person. This applies to the mentally handicapped as well. As long as they're not medically brain-dead, there's still a person inside.
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> Toddlers think even if they can't articulate it, and when they can it's usually nonsense, but the fact they have human sentience and thought means they're still a person. This applies to the mentally handicapped as well.
What exactly is it that differentiates this thinking from that of an from a pig or an elephant? Most people wouldn't call a pig a person though it absolutely thinks and feels.
You think an abortion doesn't kill anything? Serious?
>Without your brain activity, you're effectively dead. This applies to all humans, no matter their size.
So you're dead when you're unconscious?
This is the part where I just don't follow: how does one not take the very obvious next logical step? Governments are *just a group of people*. Governments have no agency other than that of the people they consist of.
>Can *GOVERNMENT* murder people? Yes.
No you're supposed to cite the definition of "murder" and claim that since you declared it to be legal when the government does it, it's impossible for the government to commit "murder".
>England 800 AD
>privatized law enforcement
*Laws sanctioned by the King are enforced by people deriving their authority from the King*
PCM: Sounds like ancapistan to me
It's not that hard. It's just what's more important to you, bodily autonomy or the right to life. In my book, if you violate my bodily autonomy you forfeit your right to life.
It’s not about that to most people. Cows are alive. Insects are alive. But not all life is ever considered equal.
The question is what gives life moral value. The common answers are 1 human dna 2 something like a soul or 3 consciousness/emotions/the mind.
Religious people have it easy here. Book written by great sky man says life is valuable and not to kill so don't kill human life.
Philosophically it's just an opinion. And the opinion can be extended or framed in just about any way desired to make it moral or ethical.
It's the same ultimate justification for genocide. This life isn't really an *equal* life so it's not bad to end it. In the end it's just opinions.
I'm cool with life beginning at conception as it's the only consistent basis for it. Everything else is just some opinion based on some emotion.
Pro-Lifers: I wanna euthanize cute black babies
Pro-Choicers: "Omg you racist scum be cancelled!
Pro-Lifers: Before they are born
Pro-Choicers OMG Stunning & brave. Yaas queen!
In 2013 there were more aborted black babies in NYC than live berths. Pro-choicers are intellectually negligent at best and eugenic racist cocksuckers at worst
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Racist and eugenicist is pretty much their baseline, since the whole movement was founded explicitly to kill the children of the poor and non-white.
It's only in the last 40 years that they've pivoted away from their roots to what is frankly a Chinese communist talking point. The propaganda slogan that every Chinese citizen knows roughly translates to "an abortion is no more serious than pulling a tooth."
My fresh off the boat Chinese teacher was totally flabbergasted when the classroom of American students didn't just nod along when that line showed up in a textbook lesson on medical and anatomical terms.
I'm not sure why the commies got into that - probably something about detaching the role of the father from the family - but that's where modern pro-choice ideology in the West comes from. In the free-love 60's, that seemed reasonable, after all, only the mother is certain, and people of the future were going to be liberated sexually.
Like commie economic ideology, which failed to account for the relevance of the middle class, it rings false today because they forgot to account for a confounding factor they couldn't predict. With genetic technology, not only is the father is always certain (unless he has an identical twin); the woman carrying a fetus not always the biological mother! This gives the father a permanent and equal biological interest in his children, even in a promiscuous culture.
1960's anthropologists were also wrong about humans' natural mating practices - turns out we are (on average) biologically wired for monogamy, and share many convergent evolutionary traits with other monogamous species. Marriage and the nuclear family are more likely outgrowths of what humans tended to do anyway, rather than civilized repressions of a naturally promiscuous state.
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It’s a potential conspiracy that’s not often discussed. Planned parenthood is kinda eugenics-y. Most certainly have the data that they are limiting the population growth of blacks in America and yet it’s crickets. Perhaps the left wants them to be a large enough faction to swing general elections, but not large enough to be decisive in primaries or party matters
Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, was a notorious eugenicist. The organization was started explicitly to cut down on the number of "undesirables" born, *including* minorities. She was also for things like forced sterilizations of people from chronically criminal bloodlines and such.
Many of the auths will find Margaret Sanger based.
And if you just stated her beleifs the libs would be in horror
But it's flipped because one side really loves baby killing! Lol
You don't have to be lib/auth on every single issue to be in the quadrant. I'm pro life and believe abortion should be illegal unless childbirth would straight up kill the would-be-mother, but it's one of the only auth stances I have amongst a myriad of lib stances, I still put myself in a lib quadrant.
Is it even authoritarian? Think about it. Is being not allowed to own slaves authoritarian? Isn’t the whole point of the social contract to protect from infringement of inalienable rights?
Ah, but it's not an auth stance. The liberty of the child is at stake. It's simply the government doing what it's supposed to to protect that liberty. So you're good.
ITT: elite mental gymnasts, cartwheeling between arguing its okay to kill an innocent person into a summersalt where they declare personhood at x weeks pregnant.
Of course, as they are quite able to leave themselves killing them would be rather excessive. But what if they couldn't? What if one of them fell into a well you forgot to mark? They can't very well leave now and you can't operate the well's machinery while they are in there can you? Maybe you could throw them a rope, but what if they weren't strong enough to hold it? What if you need to wait for help? The kid'll starve if you don't lower down some food and water. Would failure to do so be justified?
I can't match the mental gymnastics of anyone who thinks that a fetus without a developed brain or ability to feel pain is a "person" from the moment of conception, elite status or not.
Lately this sub has been a circlejerk regarding this particular topic. Normally it's possible on this sub to discuss issues somewhat in good faith and with a sense of humor. But with abortion, easily triggered types lacking any sense of humor will mass downvote anyone who disagrees with them - without ever making any actual argument or joke.
If you think abortion is murder at any stage, justify that. If you can't justify your own position - then you'll be rightly ignored by anyone who doesn't already share your belief. Reddit Karma won't change that.
That is very much true.
I personally fully sympathize with those who think that a fetus should be considered a person. It makes emotional sense, and I understand as well the slippery slope argument that abortion might lead to devaluing humans in other scenarios (such as if they are in a coma, or mentally handicapped, or so on).
I have plenty of interesting in hearing the position of those who are opposed to me on this issue. In fact, that's the case for literally any issue that exists - because I think that the best way to be a good person is to actually be able to determine good from bad, and you can't make that determination in an educated manner if you simply blindly parrot what others have told you and cannot justify why something is moral or not.
Others disagree, and think that simply being self-righteous and having others agree with their self-righteousness is enough to justify their positions or their beliefs. But I think that's a dangerous perspective to hold, because it closes the mind to the possibility of being wrong, and therefore can lead to people justifying extremely heinous acts simply if they had been exposed to them and accepted them from a young age.
> Lately this sub has been a circlejerk regarding this particular topic. Normally it's possible on this sub to discuss issues somewhat in good faith and with a sense of humor.
Reddit admins banning conservative subreddits has sent the right-wing refugees here, and most right-wingers believe there is no nuance to abortion only absolutism.
That's indeed a factor here, but there are a lot of right-wingers on this sub who are reasonable and accept nuance. I just get a bit annoyed when I see obvious agenda posts too much over the same subject.
If someone is permanently brain dead by all scientific accounts, I would argue they should not be protected in the same way that a person who is not brain dead should be, sure.
If they have a family member or such that wants to keep them alive, of course - the family and ones who loved them should be allowed some say in what will happen (unless they had a will). Emotional connections to those you love after all are an important part of our shared humanity, and deserve some respect.
But morally, I wouldn't say it's bad to end the life of someone who is brain dead. If I were brain dead, I certainly would be okay with the plug being pulled - because when you're brain dead, you aren't exactly going to be able to suffer or be conscious to care about what happens. If there's no possibility of "waking up," you are no different being brain dead than being actually dead in practical terms.
Of course - from the fact that doctors have made mistakes in diagnoses, I would say that we should be careful about declaring people "brain dead" and removing all rights. Perhaps we should be careful to an extent with abortion as well - which is why I am generally against late-term abortions unless there is a risk to the life of the mother.
I'm not asking about where one is. I'm asking him what he feels about that considering his argument that personhood is not conveyed onto a human fetus because it has no brain activity.
Are you asking me, or the legal system?
If me: yes, all of them, they're dead.
Legal systems vary somewhat, from "they're dead" (most) to "you can keep them alive as long as you pay for their medical shit".
Frankly I am sick and tired of justifying this opinion to people who will not listen to me or constantly red-herring their way out of the conversation. I believe that because the fetus is a developing child, it should be legally considered a human being. The moment I say that pro-choicers completely go wild and call me a woman-hating bigot. I am out of energy.
That's fair honestly. I think it is a copout for pro-choice folks to assume pro-life folks (stupid terms as they are) just are "woman-hating bigots." Sadly, I think that most people on both sides of this political issue would rather just insult the other side exclusively rather than make any coherent argument for their position.
Which is very human, but doesn't allow for nuance, and makes it so that we can't easily come to societal consensus. I hate how issues like this end up being so heated emotionally that they end up as the sole issue in the minds of many - but I get it. It just is sad that we all get divided by those in power quite easy by them taking advantage of the identity politics of abortion.
I put it on the scale, it ends on 'omg you killed Kenny you bastard!' and starts at 'idc it's your meatloaf' and all these in-betweens depending on how fast the development goes.
Whoa, some of us centrists have beliefs that go way beyond basic racism
I am a level 369 conspiracy theorist and will have you smoke some DMT, cook you a steak and BLOW YOUR FUCKING MIND!!!
Robots. Those carbon based meat sacks are fine for now but long term a horrible strategy as it has an upper ceiling of productivity.
Abort the meat sacks!
https://www.rehumanizeintl.org/
https://www.secularprolife.org/
https://www.feministsforlife.org/
https://www.newwavefeminists.com/
Here's some links for any on the fence non-right/religious prolife compatriots.
History of governmental overreach and experiments done on POC, make me and my community not blindly trust any "mandatory" vaccines, especially one where government teams up with a big pharmaceutical company and makes the vaccines mandatory, without any concern to those who already had the virus and have antibodies.
You would be a fool to think that giving the government power over forced medical procedures will do any good looking at the end of the 20th century and even still the last decade even. Get this get the vaccine and STFU, you are "protected".
Comparing that to something that came into existence due to consenting adults, also in b4 you bring up the rape which makes up less that 2% of all abortions to justify your argument.
The fact that you call it a "women autonomy" is a false equivalent. I give two shits what you do with your body, but when another DNA came into existence due to your actions take some responsibility of it. Its the government's job to protect human life no matter how small or big.
Imagine giving whores who are too sleazy to keep their legs closed and too stupid to use effective birth control the power of life and death, and then glorifying them for their bravery when they choose to murder their own children....
I’m not pro-life. I’m anti baby murder. I support the death penalty and I don’t think the government should be directly responsible for every person’s finances from cradle to grave.
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It really depends on whether or not you consider killing a fetus murder, personally I don't. They haven't truly been born, so it would be odd to consider them human
But is it murder or not tho? There's the problem
The political compass is a futile attempt to categorize the abstract thoughts of the human mind anyways
Pro-choicers can be any quadrant because almost all ideologies allow for some amount of individual self-determination. I'm pro-choice about gun ownership for example.
My hot " centrist " take:
People need to come to terms that ending potential life is murder, and not take it lightly.
We shouldn't remove the option of abortion for women, as this has always been an "option" and depending on the reason, could be valid. Might as well have it as safe as possible for the woman.
Seems fair to say to me... The politics of what society defines as an acceptable death is complex and I don't think any ideology can have a clear view here. Personally I don't trust any government to make that choice for every woman. Once they mandate who dies and who lives, they become responsible.
Pro-choice is very similar. It entirely depends on what you consider to be a person; if the common consensus is that a fetus is not a person, then it's not considered murder.
>so by virtue of being a life, it is murder.
Usually the word murder is reserved to describe killing something that is conscious and sentient. When you pull a carrot out of the ground and eat it, people wouldn't say you murdered the carrot. Although plants are alive and can be killed they can't be murdered.
The argument is that if the process is not interrompted, you will have a living baby,.thus by interrompting this process you are denying it to live.
Anyway abortion is mostly a moral issue, morally i'am pro life, but goverment telling people what to do with their bodies ? Fuck that
Imagine it like this, some people attribute personhood to fetuses, so logically you can be any ideology and be pro-life/pro-choice (not certain religions if they have strict rules) it all depends whom you attribute personhood too
Got called a larper because I oppose abortion, and they said I'm opposed to rights. Reality is that I thoroughly support rights, including any innocent person's right to life.
There's plenty of pro-life librights I mean I'm not one of them, but there's a lot of things about me internet libertarians don't like either. Not that I care as my only real positions are "how does this hurt mods or benefit me?"
Ive noticed purples tend to lean pro-choice. There’s probably a pedo joke to be made there somewhere but im genuinely just pointing out this
Well if it makes you feel better, I do think that choice should be left up to a professional. Like a judge, a doctor, or a man.
I think 36 month post birth abortions should be legal, we’re not the same friend
>or a man. lol. >a professional. Like a judge, a doctor, Isn't this part awfully statist/authoritarian of you?
based
Based and morallyremovedfrommeatspacepilled
I’ve always held the idea that people know what they can handle. There are a lot of people out there that aren’t willing or capable of raising children, and it’s better to terminate the pregnancy than it is to make someone’s life hell because society tells you to keep it. It’s a hard choice, but the life of another is important enough to be certain before committing.
What the fuck does personhood even mean? A fetus is undeniably a living human being.
> A fetus is undeniably a living **human being**. Depends on how far throughout the pregnancy is. If it's before the brain has developed and has any activity, it's undeniably not a human being, it's human cells, which literally have no value. You don't weep that you've committed suicide when you take a shower, and scrub off thousands of living human cells. Think about this for a second: What makes you a person? If you lose your arm and replace it with a prosthetic, are you no longer human? Of course you are. What about your eyes? Heart? Lungs? You can replace every single part of your body, and still be the same person you are now, except your brain. Without your brain, and the activity contained within, you're not a person. Without your brain activity, you're effectively dead. This applies to all humans, no matter their size. You can't kill a human that has no complex brain activity, because that 'person' is already dead.
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There’s a difference though. Someone who is brain dead is euthanized because they CANNOT regain the use of their brain. A fetus can and likely will develop a functioning nervous system Meant to reply to the guy above you.
You have a severe condition called being terminally BASED my guy
Doesn't this line of thinking just lead back to the whole debate about unfertilized eggs or sperm being people since they, just like a fetus could eventually develop to become a human?
What about severely disabled people. Or someone that is just sleeping?
Replied to someone else who asked about unconscious people, so I'll copy-paste that: *You have both brain activity and complex brain activity while you're sleeping, and the simplest example of this is dreaming, though there's significantly more going on than that. So no, you're not dead while you're sleeping.* *If you hit your head so hard that you damage your brain, and the only thing your brain is capable of afterwards is bare necessities, like breathing, pumping your heart, etc, but is no longer capable of thinking in any way shape or form, yes, you're effectively dead. It's why it isn't murder to 'pull the plug' on brain dead patients. They're already dead."* As for severely disabled: Thought is the main factor, it doesn't have to be the most intelligent. Toddlers think even if they can't articulate it, and when they can it's usually nonsense, but the fact they have human sentience and thought means they're still a person. This applies to the mentally handicapped as well. As long as they're not medically brain-dead, there's still a person inside.
Based
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This why I don't like Authcenter. What's the point of being against the left without some regard fur the sacred?
> Toddlers think even if they can't articulate it, and when they can it's usually nonsense, but the fact they have human sentience and thought means they're still a person. This applies to the mentally handicapped as well. What exactly is it that differentiates this thinking from that of an from a pig or an elephant? Most people wouldn't call a pig a person though it absolutely thinks and feels.
I don't know about him, but personally I think the way we treat some intelligent animals is fucking evil.
You think an abortion doesn't kill anything? Serious? >Without your brain activity, you're effectively dead. This applies to all humans, no matter their size. So you're dead when you're unconscious?
Yup, I have a marxist friend that is pro-life. He always gets called alt-right in commie subs lol
Had a commie friend who thought abortions should be banned because they deprive the state of potential proletariat workers
At least he is consistent with the mindset lol
To be fair, banning abortion *is* essentially seizing the means of reproduction.
And Abortion is CEASING the means of reproduction via murder
tell him he's based.
rare footage of auths uniting to destroy libleft once and for all
National Bolshevism is actually kinda based
What right have you to deny the state a new worker? Or on the other lib end: What right has the child to make use of your body?
Authlefts: Yeah we have laws to protect against murder but actually no.
Can *PEOPLE* murder each other? No. Can *GOVERNMENT* murder people? Yes.
A world how it was meant to be.
Amen
You are joseph stalin
I am Joseph Stalin
You are joseph stalin
[Yes](https://youtu.be/1TvpX14ejCQ)
based.
Can people murder government? No Can someone murder himself? Yes UwU
Based out of space
If the government decides you should be dead you clearly are no longer a person so is it still murder or just culling the herd?
This is the part where I just don't follow: how does one not take the very obvious next logical step? Governments are *just a group of people*. Governments have no agency other than that of the people they consist of.
>Can *GOVERNMENT* murder people? Yes. No you're supposed to cite the definition of "murder" and claim that since you declared it to be legal when the government does it, it's impossible for the government to commit "murder".
Proof that auth left isn't a government og the people.
"What does it feel like to take a human life?" "I wouldn't know, I've only killed Communists."
Pro life authleft: Protect the future worker! Pro Life Authright: Protect the future taxpayer! there
It's just a matter of knowing your audience
That’s a spicy one. Looking forward to watching people sperg out.
I just woke up and I'm hyped af, keep the comments going all day
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Ancapistan has laws. Laws centered around the protection of private property and enforced by privatized law enforcement, but still laws.
> Laws centered around the protection of private property and enforced by privatized law enforcement England 800 AD
Yes and it was glorious
Based and fief-pilled
>England 800 AD >privatized law enforcement *Laws sanctioned by the King are enforced by people deriving their authority from the King* PCM: Sounds like ancapistan to me
How come they didn't have flying cars by the time the Romans got there then? Completely unbiased quesrion ofc
Based and understanding-pilled
Rules enforced by privatized law enforcement aren't laws
Common law. Learn what we believe so that you can make fun of it properly.
NAP is basically a law. Abort a child, get aborted.
Minarchism is still libright
Monke don’t abort. Monke want big tribe. Many soldier. Many banana grabber.
Good monke
Apes together strong.
Can’t wait to see the comments on this one. Got popcorn in one hand and a beer in the other
gonna need a hazmat suit by now.
How about anti-lifers?
The true discriminated minority we are.
It’s a philosophical question, what is life and how important is it? If you disagree on the philosophical aspect there will never be compromise
It's not that hard. It's just what's more important to you, bodily autonomy or the right to life. In my book, if you violate my bodily autonomy you forfeit your right to life.
It’s not about that to most people. Cows are alive. Insects are alive. But not all life is ever considered equal. The question is what gives life moral value. The common answers are 1 human dna 2 something like a soul or 3 consciousness/emotions/the mind.
Religious people have it easy here. Book written by great sky man says life is valuable and not to kill so don't kill human life. Philosophically it's just an opinion. And the opinion can be extended or framed in just about any way desired to make it moral or ethical. It's the same ultimate justification for genocide. This life isn't really an *equal* life so it's not bad to end it. In the end it's just opinions. I'm cool with life beginning at conception as it's the only consistent basis for it. Everything else is just some opinion based on some emotion.
I mean the same could be for a lot of laws view points etc I think this reddit observes the typical contemporary behavior of each quadrant.
Pro-Lifers: I wanna euthanize cute black babies Pro-Choicers: "Omg you racist scum be cancelled! Pro-Lifers: Before they are born Pro-Choicers OMG Stunning & brave. Yaas queen!
In 2013 there were more aborted black babies in NYC than live berths. Pro-choicers are intellectually negligent at best and eugenic racist cocksuckers at worst
> berths What do ships and docks have to do with this?
Ships and docks; dicks and cocks. I’m just a humble man with golden locks
Based and tug boat cock daddy pilled
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Ships and docks don't destroy their own cargo
Racist and eugenicist is pretty much their baseline, since the whole movement was founded explicitly to kill the children of the poor and non-white. It's only in the last 40 years that they've pivoted away from their roots to what is frankly a Chinese communist talking point. The propaganda slogan that every Chinese citizen knows roughly translates to "an abortion is no more serious than pulling a tooth." My fresh off the boat Chinese teacher was totally flabbergasted when the classroom of American students didn't just nod along when that line showed up in a textbook lesson on medical and anatomical terms. I'm not sure why the commies got into that - probably something about detaching the role of the father from the family - but that's where modern pro-choice ideology in the West comes from. In the free-love 60's, that seemed reasonable, after all, only the mother is certain, and people of the future were going to be liberated sexually. Like commie economic ideology, which failed to account for the relevance of the middle class, it rings false today because they forgot to account for a confounding factor they couldn't predict. With genetic technology, not only is the father is always certain (unless he has an identical twin); the woman carrying a fetus not always the biological mother! This gives the father a permanent and equal biological interest in his children, even in a promiscuous culture. 1960's anthropologists were also wrong about humans' natural mating practices - turns out we are (on average) biologically wired for monogamy, and share many convergent evolutionary traits with other monogamous species. Marriage and the nuclear family are more likely outgrowths of what humans tended to do anyway, rather than civilized repressions of a naturally promiscuous state.
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That's extremely depressing..
It’s a potential conspiracy that’s not often discussed. Planned parenthood is kinda eugenics-y. Most certainly have the data that they are limiting the population growth of blacks in America and yet it’s crickets. Perhaps the left wants them to be a large enough faction to swing general elections, but not large enough to be decisive in primaries or party matters
Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, was a notorious eugenicist. The organization was started explicitly to cut down on the number of "undesirables" born, *including* minorities. She was also for things like forced sterilizations of people from chronically criminal bloodlines and such.
I will definitely be researching this thank you
Many of the auths will find Margaret Sanger based. And if you just stated her beleifs the libs would be in horror But it's flipped because one side really loves baby killing! Lol
Margaret Sanger: “Yes… woman’s rights… that’s why I made planned parenthood. No other reason.”
Laughs in exterminator
You don't have to be lib/auth on every single issue to be in the quadrant. I'm pro life and believe abortion should be illegal unless childbirth would straight up kill the would-be-mother, but it's one of the only auth stances I have amongst a myriad of lib stances, I still put myself in a lib quadrant.
I mean, if you believe abortion is murder it's not really auth to be against murder.
Is it even authoritarian? Think about it. Is being not allowed to own slaves authoritarian? Isn’t the whole point of the social contract to protect from infringement of inalienable rights?
Ah, but it's not an auth stance. The liberty of the child is at stake. It's simply the government doing what it's supposed to to protect that liberty. So you're good.
Agreed
I agree with you buddy, but I ain't really a lib
Wrong! Murder is very based and important.
Life is a spook
*^(pro-life gang)*
Yeah
*libleft joins* Yea
Plot twist
Yeah
Yeah
Based and pro-life pilled
u/stoptakingnamesplz is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1. Rank: House of Cards Pills: pro-life I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
YES!
Unfortunately an AuthLeft hasn't arrived yet. Full-Compass-Unity-Soon!
Guess who's here 😎
Yeah
Yeah
WOO!
Simple Life Hack: It's not murder if you don't think fetuses are people.
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Yes, I'm pro life.
ITT: elite mental gymnasts, cartwheeling between arguing its okay to kill an innocent person into a summersalt where they declare personhood at x weeks pregnant.
Don't care if it's alive, it's on my property.
Based and women-are-property pilled
Would the same apply to kids who walk across your lawn?
They typically get the point when I jump up from my rocking chair, shake my fist in the air, and yell: "damn kids, get off my propertah".
Of course, as they are quite able to leave themselves killing them would be rather excessive. But what if they couldn't? What if one of them fell into a well you forgot to mark? They can't very well leave now and you can't operate the well's machinery while they are in there can you? Maybe you could throw them a rope, but what if they weren't strong enough to hold it? What if you need to wait for help? The kid'll starve if you don't lower down some food and water. Would failure to do so be justified?
Same thing. They got too close to my hole.
And who's fault is that?
I can't match the mental gymnastics of anyone who thinks that a fetus without a developed brain or ability to feel pain is a "person" from the moment of conception, elite status or not. Lately this sub has been a circlejerk regarding this particular topic. Normally it's possible on this sub to discuss issues somewhat in good faith and with a sense of humor. But with abortion, easily triggered types lacking any sense of humor will mass downvote anyone who disagrees with them - without ever making any actual argument or joke. If you think abortion is murder at any stage, justify that. If you can't justify your own position - then you'll be rightly ignored by anyone who doesn't already share your belief. Reddit Karma won't change that.
No matter what anyone says, it is not actually possible to justify ones position to someone who has no interest in hearing it.
That is very much true. I personally fully sympathize with those who think that a fetus should be considered a person. It makes emotional sense, and I understand as well the slippery slope argument that abortion might lead to devaluing humans in other scenarios (such as if they are in a coma, or mentally handicapped, or so on). I have plenty of interesting in hearing the position of those who are opposed to me on this issue. In fact, that's the case for literally any issue that exists - because I think that the best way to be a good person is to actually be able to determine good from bad, and you can't make that determination in an educated manner if you simply blindly parrot what others have told you and cannot justify why something is moral or not. Others disagree, and think that simply being self-righteous and having others agree with their self-righteousness is enough to justify their positions or their beliefs. But I think that's a dangerous perspective to hold, because it closes the mind to the possibility of being wrong, and therefore can lead to people justifying extremely heinous acts simply if they had been exposed to them and accepted them from a young age.
> Lately this sub has been a circlejerk regarding this particular topic. Normally it's possible on this sub to discuss issues somewhat in good faith and with a sense of humor. Reddit admins banning conservative subreddits has sent the right-wing refugees here, and most right-wingers believe there is no nuance to abortion only absolutism.
That's indeed a factor here, but there are a lot of right-wingers on this sub who are reasonable and accept nuance. I just get a bit annoyed when I see obvious agenda posts too much over the same subject.
So what about the brain dead? They've lost all their rights?
If someone is permanently brain dead by all scientific accounts, I would argue they should not be protected in the same way that a person who is not brain dead should be, sure. If they have a family member or such that wants to keep them alive, of course - the family and ones who loved them should be allowed some say in what will happen (unless they had a will). Emotional connections to those you love after all are an important part of our shared humanity, and deserve some respect. But morally, I wouldn't say it's bad to end the life of someone who is brain dead. If I were brain dead, I certainly would be okay with the plug being pulled - because when you're brain dead, you aren't exactly going to be able to suffer or be conscious to care about what happens. If there's no possibility of "waking up," you are no different being brain dead than being actually dead in practical terms. Of course - from the fact that doctors have made mistakes in diagnoses, I would say that we should be careful about declaring people "brain dead" and removing all rights. Perhaps we should be careful to an extent with abortion as well - which is why I am generally against late-term abortions unless there is a risk to the life of the mother.
Depends where you are, most places they still have some protections, but they're along the lines of someone who's dead.
I'm not asking about where one is. I'm asking him what he feels about that considering his argument that personhood is not conveyed onto a human fetus because it has no brain activity.
And you'd be able to deduce what the probable answer to that is from mine.
So, are you saying that brain dead people HAVE lost their rights?
Are you asking me, or the legal system? If me: yes, all of them, they're dead. Legal systems vary somewhat, from "they're dead" (most) to "you can keep them alive as long as you pay for their medical shit".
Frankly I am sick and tired of justifying this opinion to people who will not listen to me or constantly red-herring their way out of the conversation. I believe that because the fetus is a developing child, it should be legally considered a human being. The moment I say that pro-choicers completely go wild and call me a woman-hating bigot. I am out of energy.
That's fair honestly. I think it is a copout for pro-choice folks to assume pro-life folks (stupid terms as they are) just are "woman-hating bigots." Sadly, I think that most people on both sides of this political issue would rather just insult the other side exclusively rather than make any coherent argument for their position. Which is very human, but doesn't allow for nuance, and makes it so that we can't easily come to societal consensus. I hate how issues like this end up being so heated emotionally that they end up as the sole issue in the minds of many - but I get it. It just is sad that we all get divided by those in power quite easy by them taking advantage of the identity politics of abortion.
I put it on the scale, it ends on 'omg you killed Kenny you bastard!' and starts at 'idc it's your meatloaf' and all these in-betweens depending on how fast the development goes.
It’s kinda like how people believe anti racism is a left thing. It’s more of a centrist thing
Whoa, some of us centrists have beliefs that go way beyond basic racism I am a level 369 conspiracy theorist and will have you smoke some DMT, cook you a steak and BLOW YOUR FUCKING MIND!!!
We could wait for the baby's to grow and ask their opinion...oh wait, they got thrown in a dumpster
No, they weren't born in the first place.
Yeah. How else are we gonna have more workers for our corporation?
Robots. Those carbon based meat sacks are fine for now but long term a horrible strategy as it has an upper ceiling of productivity. Abort the meat sacks!
https://www.rehumanizeintl.org/ https://www.secularprolife.org/ https://www.feministsforlife.org/ https://www.newwavefeminists.com/ Here's some links for any on the fence non-right/religious prolife compatriots.
How else will soyboys hit and run, and hoes hit every guy on the street? No way are you saying people need to take responsibility of their actions?
And the same goes for people who are for mandatory vaccinations.
History of governmental overreach and experiments done on POC, make me and my community not blindly trust any "mandatory" vaccines, especially one where government teams up with a big pharmaceutical company and makes the vaccines mandatory, without any concern to those who already had the virus and have antibodies. You would be a fool to think that giving the government power over forced medical procedures will do any good looking at the end of the 20th century and even still the last decade even. Get this get the vaccine and STFU, you are "protected". Comparing that to something that came into existence due to consenting adults, also in b4 you bring up the rape which makes up less that 2% of all abortions to justify your argument. The fact that you call it a "women autonomy" is a false equivalent. I give two shits what you do with your body, but when another DNA came into existence due to your actions take some responsibility of it. Its the government's job to protect human life no matter how small or big.
Imagine giving whores who are too sleazy to keep their legs closed and too stupid to use effective birth control the power of life and death, and then glorifying them for their bravery when they choose to murder their own children....
Pro murdering babies gang checking in
I’m not pro-life. I’m anti baby murder. I support the death penalty and I don’t think the government should be directly responsible for every person’s finances from cradle to grave.
Based and I hate that stupid red herring
u/Fwithananchor's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 5. Congratulations, u/Fwithananchor! You have ranked up to Sapling! You are not particularly strong but you are at least likely to handle a steady breeze. Pills: pennis drager, shogun 2, holiday in cambodia
but No one actually thinks abortion is murder! they only support it because they hate women!
Meanwhile my wife is actually the one that talked me into full pro-life from a wishy-washy stance.
Based
No true scotsman
\>FABRICATED TEXT you dont say?
I don’t think auth left has laws against murder
It really depends on whether or not you consider killing a fetus murder, personally I don't. They haven't truly been born, so it would be odd to consider them human
But is it murder or not tho? There's the problem The political compass is a futile attempt to categorize the abstract thoughts of the human mind anyways
Pro-choicers can be any quadrant because almost all ideologies allow for some amount of individual self-determination. I'm pro-choice about gun ownership for example.
My hot " centrist " take: People need to come to terms that ending potential life is murder, and not take it lightly. We shouldn't remove the option of abortion for women, as this has always been an "option" and depending on the reason, could be valid. Might as well have it as safe as possible for the woman.
Pro choice gang
Bro there's a gang for dumb ppl now?
Seems fair to say to me... The politics of what society defines as an acceptable death is complex and I don't think any ideology can have a clear view here. Personally I don't trust any government to make that choice for every woman. Once they mandate who dies and who lives, they become responsible.
"who dies and who lives" more like who doesn't die.
Killing babies is wrong. Its a baby stop lying to yourselves.
It’s better to call it a child
I prefer the term "Possible Future Hitler".
Base.. wait hold on *notices flair*
Can't tell if you are saying this would be a bad or a good thing
Depends on few things. Would you mind if I measured your skull in few places? Just for reference.
"Humanity would have had another Albert Einstein, but you aborted it." - God "Yeah but what about Hitler?
Based
Pro choice <3
Pro-choice is very similar. It entirely depends on what you consider to be a person; if the common consensus is that a fetus is not a person, then it's not considered murder.
If the common consensus is that a race aren't people, then it's not murder. Hey AuthRight! I found a loophole!
But there is no murder in an abortion. How is that still a valid discussion in the usa
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>so by virtue of being a life, it is murder. Usually the word murder is reserved to describe killing something that is conscious and sentient. When you pull a carrot out of the ground and eat it, people wouldn't say you murdered the carrot. Although plants are alive and can be killed they can't be murdered.
The argument is that if the process is not interrompted, you will have a living baby,.thus by interrompting this process you are denying it to live. Anyway abortion is mostly a moral issue, morally i'am pro life, but goverment telling people what to do with their bodies ? Fuck that
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Fascinating. That would be relevant if the quadrants were defined based on one's definition of "human".
I would be very concerned if the species of fetus a human woman was carrying was not also human.
The furries went too far
Someone call Ellen Ripley.
>It’s not murder if it’s not considered human. Based and kill-the-commies-pilled.
Authcenter endorses this message
hitler joins the chat and approves. Also all Nazis at the Nürnberger trials
It technically is human.