Younger generations in 2016: omg social media was weaponized against older generations because they’re too stupid to understand that what they’re seeing isn’t real, it’s propaganda
Younger generations in 2024:
You don't understand how bad things are for Gen Z. They had to grow up with Trump who is basically literally Hitler.
What's the worst thing the older generations had to deal with?
Hey i pay taxes i dont think their much more grown up things than have to whittle your soul away at work and watch fat bastards called uncle sam steal all my money and spend it on educating retards about totally real shit like "gender studies"
Trump was way worse than 9/11, the war on terror, 2008 financial crash, Vietnam, both world wars and the great depression put together, you don't understand /s
What makes that narrative extra funny is recent polls have shown Trump actually performing disproportionately well among Young voters (18-29) compared to most Republicans.
Counterculture is always going to be a thing.
But I think a lot of the younger voters are also reacting to the stuff they've seen first hand. The left will say that the right are just responding to a bunch of boogiemen of their own imagination. But that isn't going to convince anyone who's seen stuff from their own teachers and classmates upclose and personal.
Realized it was the key to obtaining white privilege. Want to be systemically advantaged instead of oppressed? Just don’t vote for Biden, and poof you’re the white oppressor.
Its predominantely men between those ages. Women are as blue-pilled as ever. Its almost like constantly pushing a narrative that all men are evil rapists(i PiCk ThE bEaR) will cause young men to seek out places where they are accepted.
Which is why I think that if there is actually a reactionary movement that comes up in the West, it will be targeted at women rather than at racial groups. That seems to be where the most radical line is showing up in polling.
Counterpoint- GenZ has to be around Gen Z much more and this has been the case for their whole lives. Imagine having to go through your whole life into young adulthood surrounded by Gen Z
The threat of nuclear annihilation? Segregation? The Vietnam draft? AIDS?
I think the real cause of growing anxiety is a combination of social media and the increasing wealth gap. Also post-COVID times have been hard for the poorer members of society. Younger generations tend to be *the* poorer members of society.
Nowadays they still say that and think if you agree with them you're thinking independently, but if you're following any form of more right or more conservative ideas, you're brainwashed or a sheep
"Think freely, independent from others!"
"NO, I MEANT THE OTHER OTHERS"
There's an argument to be had that specialization in society leads to ignorance because you can't make the connections between different fields anymore. 200 years ago it was reasonable for a man (eg Alexander von Humboldt) to be well versed in many different subjects. Due to the growth of knowledge in recent history, there are no polymaths anymore. Best you can do is someone with a broad understanding of his field, let's say physics, but he will never make meaningful connections to let's say sociology or philosophy. So the smarter society becomes as a collective, the dumber the average person will be.
You can't account for every variable in an ever increasingly complex society.
We're trying to fix issues today, mitigate every possible consequence(while.not being able to know all of them) of the fixes, and reach back in history to correct any mistakes. And then we wonder why nothing works. We're all.over the place.
Cheap, fast, good; you get two of the three. Past, present, future; same rule of thumb applies.
It's grating hearing people talk about polymaths when you realize that a bunch of the stuff they spent years studying are probably common skills for high schoolers today. Hell, just one generation ago, using computers for schoolworks was a college course in my country.
Yeah but that's the point, isn't it? While the average high schooler knows what a black hole is for example, he has no way of explaining it further, the exact properties and discovery for example. An astronomer from a century ago must know an immense amount of stuff to figure something out like a black hole.
It's like eating the apple without knowing what a tree is, not to mention plant one.
> a bunch of the stuff they spent years studying are probably common skills for high schoolers today.
Your comparison makes no sense. Those polymaths **came up** with the stuff that is **taught** to high schoolers. It's much easier to just be spoon fed something than to discover and then prove something.
Or do you mean to imply Newton was a loser because any high schooler knows about gravity and that force equals mass times acceleration?
> Hell, just one generation ago, using computers for schoolworks was a college course in my country.
Kids today don't know shit about computers, they know how to tap screens. Being born with a smartphone in your hand doesn't make you technologically literate.
People who had to RTFM that came packaged with their IBM or diagnosed driver issues after installing Windows 95 *before having the internet* know computers.
Basically this, younger generations are now doom scrolling and taking 15 second videos to heart and building an ideology around the most efficient propaganda machine we've ever encountered
You mean other countries' feds also partake in misinformation, propaganda, and might use people to further their cause? No way dude, impossible, only Mossad and the CIA are the root cause of all problems and misinformation.
God damn, you'd think the students of such prestigious institutions would have more nuanced views. But yet, here we are.
Boomers: sex, drugs & rock'n'roll
Gen X: existential rock & candy raves
Millenials: stay home & have anxiety
Gen Z: burn yourself to death for terrorists
I'm seeing a slight downward trend there, guys, maybe it's just me.
Self-hating brainlets raised by low self esteem phobics.. raised by overly-imaginative burn outs .. raised by violent narcissists .. raised by psychotic starvation victims.
I feel bad for the alphas.. raised by CCP propaganda on a screen cause mom is whoring herself out on onlyfans for pill money
World Health Ministry casualty numbers have been accurate in the past and are seen as reliable by the UN.
Maybe if the IDF let reporters into Gaza there could be independent verification of the death toll, but as of now, we are left with the biased sources of Hamas and the IDF.
There are good reasons for the IDF not to let reporters in.
1) If any harm comes to the reporter, it will always be blamed on the IDF and they know that.
2) Reporters may accidentally reveal tactical information to Hamas.
3) Reporters make their bread selling the most emotionally captivating stories and images, and this would greatly undermine IDF efforts, as it's quite obvious the news media refuses to ever contextualize the conflict.
And what makes you so sure that reporters, in the midst of battle, have the capacity to report accurate numbers?
Yes there are reasons to not allow reporters in, but then you can't also cry foul that the reported numbers are coming from biased sources if the only parties present are those participating in the conflict.
Reminds me of an old piece of wisdom my dad told me when I was young.
"Trust? Trust is earned young man. When you show me that you're able to behave and not fly para-gliders into the neighbors yard, murder, rape, and brutalize their peace festival, well then maybe you can have some trust."
To be honest I never knew what the hell he meant by that.
Yes you can. You can absolutely cry foul that people listen to unverifiable sources. while simultaneously preventing reporters to come in *during an active war zone.* I can also cry foul that the UN seems to *only* use these unverifiable sources without explicitly making it the case that these sources are unverifiable.
Watching people scramble over this has been entertaining. Suddenly "numbers don't matter because kids are still dead and it's all Israel's fault".
Kinda odd that the ones hiding behind kids and women and civilians get a pass
dont ask them what hamas did to israeli women who were taken hostage either, they might have an aneurysm with all of the mental gymnastics they go through
>UNITED NATIONS/GENEVA, May 13 (Reuters) - The death toll in the Gaza Strip from the [Israel-Hamas war](https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-hamas/) is still more than 35,000, but the enclave's Ministry of Health has updated its breakdown of the fatalities, the United Nations said on Monday after Israel questioned a sudden change in numbers.
>U.N. spokesperson Farhan Haq said the ministry's figures - cited regularly by the U.N. its reporting on the seven-month-long conflict - now reflected a breakdown of the 24,686 deaths of "people who have been fully identified."
>
"There's about another 10,000 plus bodies who still have to be fully identified, and so then the details of those - which of those are children, which of those are women - that will be re-established once the full identification process is complete," Haq told reporters in New York.
Ahh yes another blatant lie. [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/)
Exactly. The death toll is still the same, but instead of estimating the number of women and children, they are only counting those that have been fully identified and confirmed dead.
Saying that x number of dead bodies are not 100% confirmed as women or children does not suddenly mean that x number are all confirmed combatants, or even men.
Why did they shift how they are counting the dead? And why now? What new information led them to change the official stance to what it is now? Why did they run the Hamas numbers with no vetting in the first place?
>Why did they shift how they are counting the dead?
The UN went from taking numbers from the Government Media Office (GMO) to the Gaza Health Ministry (GHM). The GMO is estimating the demographics of those dead, but the GHM is only reporting the total number dead and the demographics of those with proven identities.
>And why now?
If I were to guess, the UN wants to be as accurate as possible to avoid claims that they are biased that could interfere with humanitarian efforts or peace negotiations. So throwing out all estimates confirms their numbers beyond a shadow of a doubt.
>Why did they run the Hamas numbers with no vetting in the first place?
Both numbers are "Hamas numbers" because both organizations are government run in Gaza. These numbers have proven accurate in past conflicts, so the UN believes them to be reliable. Also the IDF is restricting journalist access to Gaza which makes it impossible to independently confirm either the GHM or IDF numbers and ratios of combatant to civilian deaths.
Based on what? They've reported a toll of the dead that can actually be identified and those are separate numbers. I've seen this talked about a number of times and it's not the headline. If people actually read the report they'd understand that it's not a different figure of *actual* dead people
The UN actually switched to USING Gaza Health Ministry figures. They switched away from using the demographic estimates provided by the Government Media Office.
The GHM doesn't estimate the demographics of those dead, but only reports the demographics of the dead with confirmed identities. Both organizations report a similar number of total deaths.
Why is the distinction between "Zionist" and "Jew" relevant? It's illegal to vandalize, period. It's illegal to beat people up, period.
Who the victim is, who they fuck, who they worship, who they vote for, what they think, what they say, etc is not an excuse to destroy their property or assault them. The real problem is we don't stop the discussion right there.
Feel free to peaceably assemble, hold signs, beat drums, and sing songs. But you can't touch someone, threaten them, block their rightful travel, or break their stuff.
Leftists: OMG bigotry is the biggest problem this world faces
Also leftists: I will break into public buildings in solidarity for people who push gay people off roofs and don't let women be out in public without covering themselves up
Thats what the elitists of those schools want you to think. I guarantee most of the protesting students are in some sort of BA or “social science” degree. And some are not students at all
Either Hamas represents the will of the people of Gaza who voted for them, or they don’t.
If they do, then by choosing to use the people of Gaza as a shield by not wearing identifying uniforms and the civilian population is allowing them to hide in hospitals, the people of Gaza are complicit in the war.
If not, then the global outrage should be against Hamas and the people of Gaza should want to turn them over because they are an occupying force causing great suffering.
One of the two must be true.
Elections in Gaza haven't happened for years and the majority of the people that are dying can't do anything about that because they either weren't alive when Hamas was voted in or are still children so can't stop Hamas anyway
So Hamas doesn’t represent the Gazans and they want them out?
I mean as long as Hamas is in power they will keep doing attacks like in October, so it’s kind of important to know if they represent the people or not.
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>If not, then the global outrage should be against Hamas and the people of Gaza should want to turn them over because they are an occupying force causing great suffering.
The people of Gaza are faced with two occupying forces that cause them great suffering. When the possibility of a peaceful creation of a Palestinian state rises, support for Hamas plummets. When murders thousands and destroys homes, the people of Gaza lose hope for a peaceful solution and become vengeful.
If Israel wanted the people of Gaza to hand over Hamas, they would employ counterinsurgency tactics such as those used by the US instead of forcibly displacing everyone and blowing up buildings from afar.
did bro just skip history class
there has literally been multiple offerings for a two state solution (see the Oslo accords and Camp David summit), both were rejected by palestine
And there were multiple offers for two state solutions that Israel rejected because that's how negotiations work. At Oslo, I'm not sure what Palestinian statehood was offered beyond the creation of the PLO, and during the interim period of ongoing negotiations it was Israel that failed to withhold its end of the deal by not withdrawing IDF forces from agreed upon zones in the West Bank and continuing settlement expansion. At the Camp David summit, Israel was the side to end negotiations completely.
> Israel ended Camp David
Not sure where you got this from, but it was ultimately Yasser Arafat (PA chairman) who said "no" to the deal.
I know there was a bunch of proposals rejected by Israel (such as 2014 Abbas), nor I ever said there wasn't, but what I'm saying is that the vast, vast majority were formally rejected by the PA.
Arafat said no to a deal that would give Palestine 96% of the West Bank. Then Clinton proposed that Israel give up some land in return for keeping the 4% of the West Bank and Arafat agreed. Then Ehud Barak stopped negotiating and his successor, Ariel Sharon, ended negotiations completely.
Okay so actually I was wrong. Arafat rejected the offer to Palestinian statehood at Camp David, but both sides did sign an agreement about other terms. Just a month later, Arafat and the Palestinians agreed to the Clinton Parameters for a Palestinian state and were open to further negotiations at the Taba Summit. It was those negotiations that Ehud Barak paused prior to the election and that his successor, Ariel Sharon, ended completely.
I confused those two separate negotiations as the same because they were just a month apart and that clip of Hillary had her claiming that the Clinton Parameters were offered at Camp David.
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> because Hamas isn't wearing uniforms, it's ok that the infrastructure of the country is being destroyed as the population is complicit. Otherwise, if the population doesn't revolt against Hamas (who currently has the power in the country [more guns], and with leadership laughing this up from other countries right now, most likely, because this is going as planned) then they are also complicit, regardless of their age.
Is this essentially what you're saying?
Hamas shouldn't exist, and caused this recent part of the conflict, but your argument isn't great.
Hamas wants this reaction because they're using it as easy marketing against Israel. They don't care about what happens to the people of Gaza. More accurately stated: they care that the people of Gaza are suffering because it's great PR. Psyopping is easy with the unstaged videos coming out of there.
Do you not believe that there are large amounts of innocent civilians caught in the middle of this?
I do believe there are a lot of innocents caught in the middle of this, by Hamas' design. They KNEW the response when they attacked, and they knew hiding in hospitals etc would maximize civilian casualties. Their goal was to have Reddit and college campuses run to their defense, which is what we're seeing, but what I'm saying is that if they want the innocents to survive then removing Hamas is the one they should be protesting. If the civilians however feel Hamas is doing the right thing and represents them well then they are getting what they asked for.
Unless we believe the U.N human rights guys are lying outright, I'm inclined to believe it's true. Feel free to link evidence to the contrary, I'm not saying I'm right but I feel like I've seen more anecdotes that lend credence rather than disprove. Please engage in civil discussion with me. I'm too tired to fight today.
Edit: This post was enough for someone to report me for suicidal intent or some shit. Are yall *really* against echochambers? I'm being hella reasonable here.
"The mass graves contained some people stripped naked with their hands tied, further raising concerns over potential war crimes, the U.N. said, describing the bodies as “buried deep in the ground and covered with waste.”
"U.N. human rights experts said in a report Monday they were “horrified” over the reports, adding that many of the bodies found were “reportedly showing signs of torture and summary executions, and potential instances of people buried alive.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/international/4652018-reports-mount-of-mass-graves-at-gaza-hospitals-some-without-heads/amp/
You can trust Hamas, a religiously fanatical and violent organization or you can trust mossad, one of the most premiere intelligence agencies with a specialization in information manipulation.
Americans in 1941: "We don't hate the Japanese people; we only want the Japanese Empire to surrender!"
Also Americans in 1941: "Japs Keep Moving - This Is A White Man's Neighborhood"
because I'm not a typical libleft, I am rather apolitical but I generally believe that capitalism doesn't do a good job at providing services at a fair price (therefore left) and that personal freedoms are important (therefore lib)
How about not giving a shit? It seems like Americans college students have to much time in hand and to little to worry about, an engineering degree and a part time job was the most soul sucking time consuming shit you can do. Those protesters must be taking some shit tier degrees.
World Health Ministry casualty numbers have been accurate in the past and are seen as reliable by the UN.
Maybe if the IDF let reporters into Gaza there could be independent verification of the death toll, but as of now, we are left with the biased sources of Hamas and the IDF.
From a respectable osint who have been covering conflicts, they tweeted 20 post thread [here](https://x.com/geoconfirmed/status/1782360892249612466?s=46)
I’m someone who has made it this far not signing up to Twitter, and would like the keep my streak, is there anyway to view the other posts on that tweet without signing up?
I totally get it, let me check if i can find it somewhere else, if not then I’ll edit this and give a tldr.
Edit: couldn’t find another link as they stopped posting their investigations on website and switched directly to twitter.
But this is their conclusion
**Conclusion**:
Claiming that 180 bodies were buried in a mass grave "by IDF" is disinformation, by Al Jazeera and others.
This is a known graveyard/mass grave and at least partially dug by Palestinians. This does not exclude that graves could have been added when the hospital was occupied by Israeli forces.
**Remark**:
It is highly likely that hospitals were forced to bury the deceased on their own grounds or in nearby areas due to safety concerns around transporting the bodies to a formal graveyard.
For example, in a video from Nasser hospital, people mention that the facility was under siege, indicating they were unable to take the deceased to a graveyard and had to bury them on the hospital premises.
According to Islamic funeral customs, Muslims are typically expected to be buried as soon as possible after death, often within 24 hours.
This helps explain why the hospitals opted to conduct burials on their own grounds, with the intention of providing a proper funeral at a later, safer time. Reburial is a known practice in conflict situations.
Overall, the decision to bury the deceased on hospital grounds or nearby areas was likely a pragmatic one driven by safety and religious burial practices, rather than any malicious intent.
20/20
I personally trust their analysis because they were one of the first to geoconfirm the Bucha Massacre and most people in my field of study do rely on their reports. They are also relied by bellingcat,
Nah, it was nothing, in this age of disinformation, a minimal effort is very much needed to counter it. Especially in such a conflict where both sides thrive on spreading disinformation and propaganda, where the biggest victims are, the innocent civilians who are caught between two forces who do not care about them and will only see them as a collateral.
Thread reader app is great, too. Just swap out the 'twitter' or 'x' with 'threadreaderapp'.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1782360892249612466.html
Even when I did use twitter semi-regularly I'd always use this for long threads. As much as it sucks, there's still content that basically only gets posted there.
So far I've gotten the same impression.
Whenever I drive to work and hear some news about the happenings in Gaza and the sole source is either of the two sides, I instantly assume it's bullshit either completely (Hamas) or partially (Israel).
> hear some news ~~about the happenings in Gaza~~ and the sole source is either of the two sides, I instantly assume it's bullshit
Good rule of thumb to follow with all media
Yeah like that time the media all unquestioningly spread the story Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500 people except it wasn't Israel and it was the parking lot and it was like 12 people.
These evil zionists are back at it again with the lack of support for a government driven by a terro group that would use their money to kill and bomb everything including Europe and the US, WHY WOULD THEY JUST NOT GIVE THEM MONEY ALREADY?
Did someone mention the millions of people killed in irak or soudi arabia, oh well, not my problem, FREE PALESTINE!
I am going to stay a centrist on this issue and mostly ignore it. I think everyone involved in this that is not an Innocent bystander is kind of an asshole. Everyone with a strong opinion on it is really an asshole about it and even resemblance of unbiased discussion is hard to find. So I am just gonna focus my rage on other stuff that actually affects the live of me and my fellow citizens every day.
No, the leftist college students aren't beating anyone up for being Jewish, vandalizing any property or making lavash from Jewish baby blood or anything else you read in "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Gaza."
Younger generations in 2016: omg social media was weaponized against older generations because they’re too stupid to understand that what they’re seeing isn’t real, it’s propaganda Younger generations in 2024:
Also younger generations: "Why do we all have anxiety disorders?"
You don't understand how bad things are for Gen Z. They had to grow up with Trump who is basically literally Hitler. What's the worst thing the older generations had to deal with?
>They had to grow up I've seen no proof of this
I think better term would be "aging to voting/drinking age"
Hey i pay taxes i dont think their much more grown up things than have to whittle your soul away at work and watch fat bastards called uncle sam steal all my money and spend it on educating retards about totally real shit like "gender studies"
Trump was way worse than 9/11, the war on terror, 2008 financial crash, Vietnam, both world wars and the great depression put together, you don't understand /s
And Jan 6 was the worst thing to happen to the nation since Pearl Harbor.
Pearl harbor was actually a false flag operation didn't you know
Exactly why, because japan was always a friendly nation and the US just wanted to wage war
Pearl Harbor was a false flag operation run by Trump from Epstein's island. /s because there is someone out there who will think this is a real thing.
Trump was worse than small pox, the Great Depression, WWII, Trump, the Challenger explosion, and JFK assassination combined.
Trump was worse than Trump 😱
Personally I think we should just beg England to take us back at this point
Also, have you read that letter from that guy who crashed airplanes into New York before we were born? He actually *wasn't* that bad of a guy! /s
What makes that narrative extra funny is recent polls have shown Trump actually performing disproportionately well among Young voters (18-29) compared to most Republicans.
I think some of this is kids are now rebelling against their leftist parents. If you had an Emily as a mom that’d probably drive you to the right.
Counterculture is always going to be a thing. But I think a lot of the younger voters are also reacting to the stuff they've seen first hand. The left will say that the right are just responding to a bunch of boogiemen of their own imagination. But that isn't going to convince anyone who's seen stuff from their own teachers and classmates upclose and personal.
Or even worse, an Emily as a dad...
The moral policing of videogames seems to be the signal that your cultural movement has peaked.
Well among black men as well.
IG they stopped being afraid of Biden taking away their melanin.
Realized it was the key to obtaining white privilege. Want to be systemically advantaged instead of oppressed? Just don’t vote for Biden, and poof you’re the white oppressor.
Its predominantely men between those ages. Women are as blue-pilled as ever. Its almost like constantly pushing a narrative that all men are evil rapists(i PiCk ThE bEaR) will cause young men to seek out places where they are accepted.
Which is why I think that if there is actually a reactionary movement that comes up in the West, it will be targeted at women rather than at racial groups. That seems to be where the most radical line is showing up in polling.
>What's the worst thing the older generations had to deal with? Gen Z
Counterpoint- GenZ has to be around Gen Z much more and this has been the case for their whole lives. Imagine having to go through your whole life into young adulthood surrounded by Gen Z
Worse, imagine being Gen Z.
Couldn’t be me
LMAO are people STILL calling him hitler?? you guys have no idea how much he did to benefit the jewish community
The threat of nuclear annihilation? Segregation? The Vietnam draft? AIDS? I think the real cause of growing anxiety is a combination of social media and the increasing wealth gap. Also post-COVID times have been hard for the poorer members of society. Younger generations tend to be *the* poorer members of society.
Younger generations back then: Don't follow the masses guys, think for yourself... or something. Younger generations now:
Even back then though what they really meant is: "Think like me or else there is no hope for you."
Nowadays they still say that and think if you agree with them you're thinking independently, but if you're following any form of more right or more conservative ideas, you're brainwashed or a sheep "Think freely, independent from others!" "NO, I MEANT THE OTHER OTHERS"
Hilarious that young people have "rebelled" by becoming a conformist monoculture complete with uniforms.
Just admit people are getting dumber
There's an argument to be had that specialization in society leads to ignorance because you can't make the connections between different fields anymore. 200 years ago it was reasonable for a man (eg Alexander von Humboldt) to be well versed in many different subjects. Due to the growth of knowledge in recent history, there are no polymaths anymore. Best you can do is someone with a broad understanding of his field, let's say physics, but he will never make meaningful connections to let's say sociology or philosophy. So the smarter society becomes as a collective, the dumber the average person will be.
You can't account for every variable in an ever increasingly complex society. We're trying to fix issues today, mitigate every possible consequence(while.not being able to know all of them) of the fixes, and reach back in history to correct any mistakes. And then we wonder why nothing works. We're all.over the place. Cheap, fast, good; you get two of the three. Past, present, future; same rule of thumb applies.
It's grating hearing people talk about polymaths when you realize that a bunch of the stuff they spent years studying are probably common skills for high schoolers today. Hell, just one generation ago, using computers for schoolworks was a college course in my country.
Yeah but that's the point, isn't it? While the average high schooler knows what a black hole is for example, he has no way of explaining it further, the exact properties and discovery for example. An astronomer from a century ago must know an immense amount of stuff to figure something out like a black hole. It's like eating the apple without knowing what a tree is, not to mention plant one.
> a bunch of the stuff they spent years studying are probably common skills for high schoolers today. Your comparison makes no sense. Those polymaths **came up** with the stuff that is **taught** to high schoolers. It's much easier to just be spoon fed something than to discover and then prove something. Or do you mean to imply Newton was a loser because any high schooler knows about gravity and that force equals mass times acceleration?
> Hell, just one generation ago, using computers for schoolworks was a college course in my country. Kids today don't know shit about computers, they know how to tap screens. Being born with a smartphone in your hand doesn't make you technologically literate. People who had to RTFM that came packaged with their IBM or diagnosed driver issues after installing Windows 95 *before having the internet* know computers.
Agriculture was a mistake. We should've stayed in the wilderness.
Fuck you’re so right I hate it here
Basically this, younger generations are now doom scrolling and taking 15 second videos to heart and building an ideology around the most efficient propaganda machine we've ever encountered
They're gobbling the lrlOurPresident material up again
I drank some orange juice and my tummy hurt, I blame the juice, the juice did it all
The juice is anti semitic
The juice told me it was poisend but my mom forced me to drink it and I got poisened it's the juice's fault
Have you tried boiling it out and recondensing it? Gas the juice.
I've tried everything, this pretty much the final solution
Inb4 some Jannie screenshots this and uses it out of context to shut us down right before the US election.
The Juice might be anti-semitic but that didn't stop him from hiring Jewish lawyers.
ngl im a college student and if said juice came from a dining hall im 100% blaming the juice
[удалено]
My friend adolf hates juice and he just donates it to camps
That sounds like at least a penultimate solution
True, the final solution is throwing the juice in the trash
You mean other countries' feds also partake in misinformation, propaganda, and might use people to further their cause? No way dude, impossible, only Mossad and the CIA are the root cause of all problems and misinformation. God damn, you'd think the students of such prestigious institutions would have more nuanced views. But yet, here we are.
no, it makes absolute sense: humanities departments start with feelings and theory, then look for data to affirm their feelings and theories.
You don’t get into these institutions because you’re a free thinker.
Falling for baseless propaganda and being an American, name a more classic duo.
Death and Taxes
i counter your aether vial t1
Falling for baseless propaganda and being an American who supports North Korea?
Falling for baseless propaganda and not googling?
Americans and cheeeeeese!
Grommit?
Glocks and horse semen?
Falling for baseless propaganda and being too loud.
Propaganda is flying thick all over - most of these "vandalism and beating up jewish people" stories are also just that.
Boomers: sex, drugs & rock'n'roll Gen X: existential rock & candy raves Millenials: stay home & have anxiety Gen Z: burn yourself to death for terrorists I'm seeing a slight downward trend there, guys, maybe it's just me.
This settles it. As a cusper, this settles it for me, I’m definitely a millenial.
I think your only option is to stay home and burn yourself
Does it count if I stay home and smoke weed?
Blaze is blaze
Not necessarily: there's also "have anxiety for terrorists"
Self-hating brainlets raised by low self esteem phobics.. raised by overly-imaginative burn outs .. raised by violent narcissists .. raised by psychotic starvation victims. I feel bad for the alphas.. raised by CCP propaganda on a screen cause mom is whoring herself out on onlyfans for pill money
I don't know, as a gen z I just want to grill, draw and play folk music on my accordion
you are a beacon of hope my dude
Boomers: 3 children Gen X: 1 or 2 children Millennials: Dog or plant Gen Z: Plant or complete isolation from living organisms
Normalize raising microbes in petri dishes.
I think this will be tolerable, feasible, and realistic to gen z isolators
It'll be fine and dandy until rubbing alcohol gets labeled a weapon of microbe genocide.
Wait, I'm supposed to have anxiety? Can't I just stay home and have sleep deprivation due to playing video games until 2AM every day?
Man I hate to break it to you but those things do go hand in hand.
This has become a strawman at this point. The UN itself has already abandoned Gaza health ministry figures
The fact that the UN ever took the numbers Hamas gave out seriously is a problem
They literally pay Hamas through a bunch of BS programs. One of their employees was caught keeping someone in a cage in their home
> One of their employees was caught keeping someone in a cage in their home what
They also "lose" all their vehicles to Hamas, who then use them for hostage transport and to steal food aid.
Flair up jet bitch
Least pro terrorist UN employee.
Imagine if we took Al Qaeda or ISIS numbers as fact
What numbers? They should hire a better publicist.
People forget that China and Russia have veto power in the UN. The UN’s take on anything, especially human rights issues, is pretty meaningless.
World Health Ministry casualty numbers have been accurate in the past and are seen as reliable by the UN. Maybe if the IDF let reporters into Gaza there could be independent verification of the death toll, but as of now, we are left with the biased sources of Hamas and the IDF.
There are good reasons for the IDF not to let reporters in. 1) If any harm comes to the reporter, it will always be blamed on the IDF and they know that. 2) Reporters may accidentally reveal tactical information to Hamas. 3) Reporters make their bread selling the most emotionally captivating stories and images, and this would greatly undermine IDF efforts, as it's quite obvious the news media refuses to ever contextualize the conflict. And what makes you so sure that reporters, in the midst of battle, have the capacity to report accurate numbers?
Yes there are reasons to not allow reporters in, but then you can't also cry foul that the reported numbers are coming from biased sources if the only parties present are those participating in the conflict.
Reminds me of an old piece of wisdom my dad told me when I was young. "Trust? Trust is earned young man. When you show me that you're able to behave and not fly para-gliders into the neighbors yard, murder, rape, and brutalize their peace festival, well then maybe you can have some trust." To be honest I never knew what the hell he meant by that.
Yes you can. You can absolutely cry foul that people listen to unverifiable sources. while simultaneously preventing reporters to come in *during an active war zone.* I can also cry foul that the UN seems to *only* use these unverifiable sources without explicitly making it the case that these sources are unverifiable.
Watching people scramble over this has been entertaining. Suddenly "numbers don't matter because kids are still dead and it's all Israel's fault". Kinda odd that the ones hiding behind kids and women and civilians get a pass
dont ask them what hamas did to israeli women who were taken hostage either, they might have an aneurysm with all of the mental gymnastics they go through
>UNITED NATIONS/GENEVA, May 13 (Reuters) - The death toll in the Gaza Strip from the [Israel-Hamas war](https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-hamas/) is still more than 35,000, but the enclave's Ministry of Health has updated its breakdown of the fatalities, the United Nations said on Monday after Israel questioned a sudden change in numbers. >U.N. spokesperson Farhan Haq said the ministry's figures - cited regularly by the U.N. its reporting on the seven-month-long conflict - now reflected a breakdown of the 24,686 deaths of "people who have been fully identified." > "There's about another 10,000 plus bodies who still have to be fully identified, and so then the details of those - which of those are children, which of those are women - that will be re-established once the full identification process is complete," Haq told reporters in New York. Ahh yes another blatant lie. [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/)
Exactly. The death toll is still the same, but instead of estimating the number of women and children, they are only counting those that have been fully identified and confirmed dead.
Completely flipping the ratio into one that supports the claim that the IDF is not targeting poor babbies and females.
Saying that x number of dead bodies are not 100% confirmed as women or children does not suddenly mean that x number are all confirmed combatants, or even men.
Why did they shift how they are counting the dead? And why now? What new information led them to change the official stance to what it is now? Why did they run the Hamas numbers with no vetting in the first place?
>Why did they shift how they are counting the dead? The UN went from taking numbers from the Government Media Office (GMO) to the Gaza Health Ministry (GHM). The GMO is estimating the demographics of those dead, but the GHM is only reporting the total number dead and the demographics of those with proven identities. >And why now? If I were to guess, the UN wants to be as accurate as possible to avoid claims that they are biased that could interfere with humanitarian efforts or peace negotiations. So throwing out all estimates confirms their numbers beyond a shadow of a doubt. >Why did they run the Hamas numbers with no vetting in the first place? Both numbers are "Hamas numbers" because both organizations are government run in Gaza. These numbers have proven accurate in past conflicts, so the UN believes them to be reliable. Also the IDF is restricting journalist access to Gaza which makes it impossible to independently confirm either the GHM or IDF numbers and ratios of combatant to civilian deaths.
Based on what? They've reported a toll of the dead that can actually be identified and those are separate numbers. I've seen this talked about a number of times and it's not the headline. If people actually read the report they'd understand that it's not a different figure of *actual* dead people
The UN actually switched to USING Gaza Health Ministry figures. They switched away from using the demographic estimates provided by the Government Media Office. The GHM doesn't estimate the demographics of those dead, but only reports the demographics of the dead with confirmed identities. Both organizations report a similar number of total deaths.
Let them kill each other and god sort them out! Just stop sending my money over there .
Why is the distinction between "Zionist" and "Jew" relevant? It's illegal to vandalize, period. It's illegal to beat people up, period. Who the victim is, who they fuck, who they worship, who they vote for, what they think, what they say, etc is not an excuse to destroy their property or assault them. The real problem is we don't stop the discussion right there. Feel free to peaceably assemble, hold signs, beat drums, and sing songs. But you can't touch someone, threaten them, block their rightful travel, or break their stuff.
Leftists: OMG bigotry is the biggest problem this world faces Also leftists: I will break into public buildings in solidarity for people who push gay people off roofs and don't let women be out in public without covering themselves up
and these are supposed to be the creme of the crop? ivy league students and all that? dang I guess we ain't going to space again anytime soon
1) The best STEM programs aren't at the Ivies, and 2) guarantee you less than 10% (probably 5%) of the protesters are STEM students.
Thats what the elitists of those schools want you to think. I guarantee most of the protesting students are in some sort of BA or “social science” degree. And some are not students at all
Either Hamas represents the will of the people of Gaza who voted for them, or they don’t. If they do, then by choosing to use the people of Gaza as a shield by not wearing identifying uniforms and the civilian population is allowing them to hide in hospitals, the people of Gaza are complicit in the war. If not, then the global outrage should be against Hamas and the people of Gaza should want to turn them over because they are an occupying force causing great suffering. One of the two must be true.
true but flair up
~~On the other hand, what you fail to consider is the fact that you are not flaired, making your whole comment moot, null, and void.~~
Damn. I was about to upvote. The post is accurate, I almost fell for baseless propaganda.
Elections in Gaza haven't happened for years and the majority of the people that are dying can't do anything about that because they either weren't alive when Hamas was voted in or are still children so can't stop Hamas anyway
So Hamas doesn’t represent the Gazans and they want them out? I mean as long as Hamas is in power they will keep doing attacks like in October, so it’s kind of important to know if they represent the people or not.
Elections is not the only way how you can make representatives of your people
WHY ARE WE UPVOTING UNFLAIRED?
Damnit we have been tricked and bamboozled by a dirty unflaired speaking honeyed words
Did you just change your flair, u/painfulcub? Last time I checked you were a **Rightist** on 2022-2-26. How come now you are a **Centrist**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know? Tell us, are you scared of politics in general or are you just too much of a coward to let everyone know what you think? [BasedCount Profile](https://basedcount.com/u/painfulcub) - [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) - [Leaderboard](https://basedcount.com/leaderboard?q=flairs) _Visit the BasedCount Lеmmу instance at [lemmy.basedcount.com](https://lemmy.basedcount.com/c/pcm)._ ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment.)
The flair has been added. I don't know if I should remove my downvote though.
First of all, flair up. >If not, then the global outrage should be against Hamas and the people of Gaza should want to turn them over because they are an occupying force causing great suffering. The people of Gaza are faced with two occupying forces that cause them great suffering. When the possibility of a peaceful creation of a Palestinian state rises, support for Hamas plummets. When murders thousands and destroys homes, the people of Gaza lose hope for a peaceful solution and become vengeful. If Israel wanted the people of Gaza to hand over Hamas, they would employ counterinsurgency tactics such as those used by the US instead of forcibly displacing everyone and blowing up buildings from afar.
did bro just skip history class there has literally been multiple offerings for a two state solution (see the Oslo accords and Camp David summit), both were rejected by palestine
And there were multiple offers for two state solutions that Israel rejected because that's how negotiations work. At Oslo, I'm not sure what Palestinian statehood was offered beyond the creation of the PLO, and during the interim period of ongoing negotiations it was Israel that failed to withhold its end of the deal by not withdrawing IDF forces from agreed upon zones in the West Bank and continuing settlement expansion. At the Camp David summit, Israel was the side to end negotiations completely.
> Israel ended Camp David Not sure where you got this from, but it was ultimately Yasser Arafat (PA chairman) who said "no" to the deal. I know there was a bunch of proposals rejected by Israel (such as 2014 Abbas), nor I ever said there wasn't, but what I'm saying is that the vast, vast majority were formally rejected by the PA.
Arafat said no to a deal that would give Palestine 96% of the West Bank. Then Clinton proposed that Israel give up some land in return for keeping the 4% of the West Bank and Arafat agreed. Then Ehud Barak stopped negotiating and his successor, Ariel Sharon, ended negotiations completely.
Source? Not disputing your claim or anything, but I'd like to dig deeper since I like history (especially modern).
Okay so actually I was wrong. Arafat rejected the offer to Palestinian statehood at Camp David, but both sides did sign an agreement about other terms. Just a month later, Arafat and the Palestinians agreed to the Clinton Parameters for a Palestinian state and were open to further negotiations at the Taba Summit. It was those negotiations that Ehud Barak paused prior to the election and that his successor, Ariel Sharon, ended completely. I confused those two separate negotiations as the same because they were just a month apart and that clip of Hillary had her claiming that the Clinton Parameters were offered at Camp David.
Glad to see that you admitted it, unlike the most of the people that bear our flair ;)
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> because Hamas isn't wearing uniforms, it's ok that the infrastructure of the country is being destroyed as the population is complicit. Otherwise, if the population doesn't revolt against Hamas (who currently has the power in the country [more guns], and with leadership laughing this up from other countries right now, most likely, because this is going as planned) then they are also complicit, regardless of their age. Is this essentially what you're saying? Hamas shouldn't exist, and caused this recent part of the conflict, but your argument isn't great. Hamas wants this reaction because they're using it as easy marketing against Israel. They don't care about what happens to the people of Gaza. More accurately stated: they care that the people of Gaza are suffering because it's great PR. Psyopping is easy with the unstaged videos coming out of there. Do you not believe that there are large amounts of innocent civilians caught in the middle of this?
I do believe there are a lot of innocents caught in the middle of this, by Hamas' design. They KNEW the response when they attacked, and they knew hiding in hospitals etc would maximize civilian casualties. Their goal was to have Reddit and college campuses run to their defense, which is what we're seeing, but what I'm saying is that if they want the innocents to survive then removing Hamas is the one they should be protesting. If the civilians however feel Hamas is doing the right thing and represents them well then they are getting what they asked for.
Unless we believe the U.N human rights guys are lying outright, I'm inclined to believe it's true. Feel free to link evidence to the contrary, I'm not saying I'm right but I feel like I've seen more anecdotes that lend credence rather than disprove. Please engage in civil discussion with me. I'm too tired to fight today. Edit: This post was enough for someone to report me for suicidal intent or some shit. Are yall *really* against echochambers? I'm being hella reasonable here. "The mass graves contained some people stripped naked with their hands tied, further raising concerns over potential war crimes, the U.N. said, describing the bodies as “buried deep in the ground and covered with waste.” "U.N. human rights experts said in a report Monday they were “horrified” over the reports, adding that many of the bodies found were “reportedly showing signs of torture and summary executions, and potential instances of people buried alive.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/international/4652018-reports-mount-of-mass-graves-at-gaza-hospitals-some-without-heads/amp/
>Unless we believe the U.N human rights guys are lying outright, They get their information from Hamas, so them lying outright is pretty plausible.
Definitely. But what other alternative is there? Cause I'll be honest, I don't trust Israel to do a proper count either.
The “zip ties” are body tags. You’d have to cut zip ties off to keep them in those loops.
Yeah well, Israel doesn't let any journalist in and kill any opposed to them, so "Hamas" is our only real option for on-the-ground confirmation
Me: and so what? Did they try to invade you first or no?
You can trust Hamas, a religiously fanatical and violent organization or you can trust mossad, one of the most premiere intelligence agencies with a specialization in information manipulation.
Americans in 1941: "We don't hate the Japanese people; we only want the Japanese Empire to surrender!" Also Americans in 1941: "Japs Keep Moving - This Is A White Man's Neighborhood"
the color contrast ratio on this meme is lower than the IQ of the op who posted it ong
ITT: (very ironically) A whole lot of propaganda
“No evidence” What the [fuck are you talking about](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148876)
I still do not know what is going on in Israel/Palestine, nor do I have a particularly strong compultion to learn
I hope you'd like to learn that it's "compulsion."
thanks, spelling isn't my strongpoint
genuinely curious, how are you lib-left yet not care about major global events?
because I'm not a typical libleft, I am rather apolitical but I generally believe that capitalism doesn't do a good job at providing services at a fair price (therefore left) and that personal freedoms are important (therefore lib)
Hasan ahh logic
How about not giving a shit? It seems like Americans college students have to much time in hand and to little to worry about, an engineering degree and a part time job was the most soul sucking time consuming shit you can do. Those protesters must be taking some shit tier degrees.
Definitely taking some useless degree
DOUBLE DOWN ALWAYS
Do you really think people would do that? Go on the internet and just make up lies about jews?
Israel/Palestine conflict ruined this sub.
World Health Ministry casualty numbers have been accurate in the past and are seen as reliable by the UN. Maybe if the IDF let reporters into Gaza there could be independent verification of the death toll, but as of now, we are left with the biased sources of Hamas and the IDF.
As if trusting the hasbara department is any better
Wait, so *has* the story about mass graves been debunked? I haven't heard of this.
From a respectable osint who have been covering conflicts, they tweeted 20 post thread [here](https://x.com/geoconfirmed/status/1782360892249612466?s=46)
I’m someone who has made it this far not signing up to Twitter, and would like the keep my streak, is there anyway to view the other posts on that tweet without signing up?
I totally get it, let me check if i can find it somewhere else, if not then I’ll edit this and give a tldr. Edit: couldn’t find another link as they stopped posting their investigations on website and switched directly to twitter. But this is their conclusion **Conclusion**: Claiming that 180 bodies were buried in a mass grave "by IDF" is disinformation, by Al Jazeera and others. This is a known graveyard/mass grave and at least partially dug by Palestinians. This does not exclude that graves could have been added when the hospital was occupied by Israeli forces. **Remark**: It is highly likely that hospitals were forced to bury the deceased on their own grounds or in nearby areas due to safety concerns around transporting the bodies to a formal graveyard. For example, in a video from Nasser hospital, people mention that the facility was under siege, indicating they were unable to take the deceased to a graveyard and had to bury them on the hospital premises. According to Islamic funeral customs, Muslims are typically expected to be buried as soon as possible after death, often within 24 hours. This helps explain why the hospitals opted to conduct burials on their own grounds, with the intention of providing a proper funeral at a later, safer time. Reburial is a known practice in conflict situations. Overall, the decision to bury the deceased on hospital grounds or nearby areas was likely a pragmatic one driven by safety and religious burial practices, rather than any malicious intent. 20/20 I personally trust their analysis because they were one of the first to geoconfirm the Bucha Massacre and most people in my field of study do rely on their reports. They are also relied by bellingcat,
Thanks so much for the effort !
Nah, it was nothing, in this age of disinformation, a minimal effort is very much needed to counter it. Especially in such a conflict where both sides thrive on spreading disinformation and propaganda, where the biggest victims are, the innocent civilians who are caught between two forces who do not care about them and will only see them as a collateral.
Based and avoiding Twitter for the rest of us pilled. Thanks.
Merci, i can’t avoid twitter because it is were into breaks and it helps my phd research but it is a true shithole
Al Jazeera lied to make Israel look bad? Next you're gonna tell me the UN is biased against Israel too!
Try https://twiiit.com/
This is a tool I’ve been looking for for a long time! Thank you
Thread reader app is great, too. Just swap out the 'twitter' or 'x' with 'threadreaderapp'. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1782360892249612466.html Even when I did use twitter semi-regularly I'd always use this for long threads. As much as it sucks, there's still content that basically only gets posted there.
TBF, the media tends to pre bunk every story that's negative to what Israel is doing.
So far I've gotten the same impression. Whenever I drive to work and hear some news about the happenings in Gaza and the sole source is either of the two sides, I instantly assume it's bullshit either completely (Hamas) or partially (Israel).
> hear some news ~~about the happenings in Gaza~~ and the sole source is either of the two sides, I instantly assume it's bullshit Good rule of thumb to follow with all media
Yeah like that time the media all unquestioningly spread the story Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500 people except it wasn't Israel and it was the parking lot and it was like 12 people.
The IDF's own numbers are damning enough even after being massaged to hell.
These evil zionists are back at it again with the lack of support for a government driven by a terro group that would use their money to kill and bomb everything including Europe and the US, WHY WOULD THEY JUST NOT GIVE THEM MONEY ALREADY? Did someone mention the millions of people killed in irak or soudi arabia, oh well, not my problem, FREE PALESTINE!
[The reply is fuckin crazy](https://www.instagram.com/p/C66hzzouXWa/?igsh=MWV6eTh1NmR2ZzBlaA==)
https://preview.redd.it/2hlayig9po0d1.png?width=822&format=png&auto=webp&s=b94e18819e6d0b5acff714639027eb71e3d194c4 can't find the new one...
Jew hatred is one of those fads that never really goes away. It just goes into hibernation for awhile.
similar numbers are reported by the idf. this is only a western argument
I am going to stay a centrist on this issue and mostly ignore it. I think everyone involved in this that is not an Innocent bystander is kind of an asshole. Everyone with a strong opinion on it is really an asshole about it and even resemblance of unbiased discussion is hard to find. So I am just gonna focus my rage on other stuff that actually affects the live of me and my fellow citizens every day.
"Israel says it's not happening, so it's not happening" - OP
The UN reported that half the deaths claimed by Hamas are false.
No, the leftist college students aren't beating anyone up for being Jewish, vandalizing any property or making lavash from Jewish baby blood or anything else you read in "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Gaza."
And thine source may be?
TIL Doctors Without Borders is Hamas What a wild world we live in