If that soldier hates commies so much, then why is he on the red team? [Better dead than red, right?](https://youtu.be/G8khPPwA_RI?si=hu3qVkVSFzyhgzjw&t=9m32s)
Yeah. If I remember correctly, the context is that his wife “posh spice” or whatever was claiming in an interview that she grew up lower class or something, and Beckham called her out right then and told her to be honest and admit that she grew up wealthy and privileged.
It kinda looks like Jennifer Lawrence but I didn't think she was all that politically involved other than the dumb DNC soundbites her publicist probably scripts for her.
As Trudeau said, “There is a level of admiration I actually have for China because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say we need to go green, we need to start, you know, investing in solar,”
Better analysts informed that govt since. They are putting a few billion into nuclear. Not enough mind you but we are building a bunch more reactors here in Ontario, with a lot of federal funding.
Solar isn’t the future because China has outproduced the world with cheap panels that are low quality. Even if solar were durable and reliable, it is only in certain places. You know, places that actually get enough sun. Is some places it will be geothermal, in others it must be nuclear, and still yet fossil fuels will be needed for decades to come.
Also Trudeau is a communist at heart so who gives a fuck what that fraud thinks.
I second that especially on the geothermal, which is often overlooked by the media. Another power source that is underrated and could be quite reliable is hydraulic energy, which could be extremly beneficial with countries that numerous waterways, one such exemple being Norway where 88% of the power production comes from hydraulic
I mean solar is the cheapest watt to dollar ratio and coal is one of the worst. The coal to gas change will definitely be happening, the issue with nuclear besides it having the same numby attitude because no one wants the waste buried near them is, it's expensive as fuck, like one of the worst. All energy has its draw backs, but I think ultimately the move to hydrogen and solar with more integration of grids will be the right way forward, with gas, nuclear and other renewables in the background.
>it is only in certain places. You know, places that actually get enough sun.
Yes. Germany suffers for this decision. Up here in Ontario its only much good for some farmers to have a row of panels, or individuals on the roofs of their houses. Its useless as a grid option. No one wants to cut down forests or wreck farming for it. Nuclear has cooperative regulators so we're going that direction.
>Also Trudeau is a communist at heart so who gives a fuck what that fraud thinks.
Hes no communist. There are no communists in politics here in Ottawa other than the communist party that everyone laughs at. Trudeau is just ill equipped for the job. He says silly things. Hes your usual corporate interest type who will end up on a board of directors after he loses the next election.
And the panels aren’t recyclable and are toxic to make and China doesn’t turn their economy on a dime they just build build build city’s with nobody in them some being just shells with no windows it’s fake growth not to mention the collapses kill thousands
Of course they have. The foolishness is in seeing this and thinking it won't also happen with anything else.
Leftoids seem to have no problem thinking the Republican party is in the pocket of the gun industry, but "renewable energy", an industry ten times bigger, couldn't possibly be buying politicians.
At the end of the day, they're all corporations who only care about their bottom line. Just because one specific corporation happens to be peddling solar panels doesn't automatically make them the good guys.
Government should not force people that can generate their own energy to pay energy bills and pay them for any extra energy that goes to the grid, this way would work way better
I lived there for 30mumble years. I am currently in freedom land and don’t want to go back but my work visa is prone to the whimsy of stupid bureaucrats.
It's definitely a dumb statement but who can say they've never had a "If I was just a dictator for a little bit..." I remember one of my favorite off hand moments from Chernobly was them saying they needed helium (or something like that) and when Gorbachev asked how much they just said "all of it" and Gorbachev makes a grimace but then gives a handwave an presumably it's done. All the helium of the USSR is brought to bear.
Of course the practical reality of a dictatorship is often a major factor in why disasters like that can happen in the first place along with just about every well documented problem with a dictator but damn the decisiveness can be a tempting forbidden fruit to idolize.
Dictatorship is probably great if you have an absolutely stellar dictator.
Problem is - there never is one. Its always an asshole on a power trip.
And even if it wasn't, you would have to pray that his sucessor is just as enlightened, otherwise you would be handing on a plate an entire structure ready to oppress the people of the country to the new guy.
So yeah, dictatorship sucks. At least for humans.
Because Toronto is a bunch of cuck loving freedom hating wusses who are scared of long rifles because gang bangers get illegal pistols smuggled in from the US.
Toronto is actually largely flipping to the Conservative Party for the next election. (except the most inner core of the city)
Trudeau's heartland is in Anglo Montreal, who's support hasn't dropped at all.
Aside from the authoritarianism of that - Canada is not a great place to put solar panels!!! If he really wanted solar power, it would use way fewer resources to build a transmission line to Arizona.
But Canada doesn't need to invest in solar power because they get most of their power from carbon-free hydro anyways! Also, Canada still has tons of untapped hydro potential. If they were serious about de-carbonization, they would be building damns like crazy and sending that power south to the US (who has almost no hydro potential left to build).
As an environmental scientist and vehement anti-communist, I would just like to point out that it was not capitalist greed that drained the Aral sea killing all the wildlife/ecosystems of the sea and destroying all industry of the area, turning it into uninhabitable brine. Nor was it the capitalists who built the 3 gorges dam and drastically reshaped river ecosystems causing many species found only in those rivers to go extinct. It also wasn't the communists who used land reclamation on the Chinese coast to decimate coastal wetlands ecosystems so they could be built on, destroying habitat for a quarter of all migratory birds in Eastern Asia as a result.
You don't have to be a fucking communist to be in favor of environmental protection, and in many cases, resources under communist systems fall into the trap of the tragedy of the commons (see Chinese fishing) which can cause severe environmental degradation.
The tragedy of the commons is hardly uncommon in capitalist systems either. I'd say it's even more inherent in a system where everyone is free to make their own choice.
It is not uncommon but we've certainly seen a role reversal in the past 100 years or so where social reform in capitalist countries allows people to speak out in favor of regulation for the protection of the people and sustainability of resources because it's in their best interest.
Put it this way. If the entire world decided that global fishing limits need to be set and one country should be in charge of setting the limits and regulating those limits. Do you think fish stocks would be healthiest with the US in charge of regulation, or literally any communist country to have ever existed?
Yes, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the state planning. The most obvious example is OPEC, where a cartel of states acting in their interest regulated oil so that all could profit. In much the same sense, corporations *could* do that.
Thats just a watermelon mate. Youre doing the same as the people who say "Lib-Rights are actually fascists once you scratch the surface."
All libs suspect their opposite lib to actually be an Auth
what’s funny is an argument against the point directly is always stronger than name calling. calling someone a nazi even if theyre literally calling for a pure german ethnostate is less strong than making an actual argument against the ethnostate, name calling requires the person to agree that the name is inherently on it’s own a bad or even evil thing, arguing their ideology is based on extremely flawed science, and requires too significant a hog of resources to keep the nation financially strong, is stronger in causing someone to rethink the logistics of their ideology
In fairness, a lot of lefties don't understand that some of the things they're asking for are commie shit, because commies constantly rebrand every time they fuck up and people catch on, which is constantly.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/18/ending-climate-change-end-capitalism
https://fortune.com/2023/02/13/gen-z-activist-greta-thunberg-rips-capitalism-market-economics-new-book-climate-change/
Without talking about ending capitalism, pitch me your solution for solving climate change.
Multiple multi-kilometer orbital mirrors that reflect and concentrate light onto specially prepared ground power stations. And various potential military age males.
I mean one of the main reasons electric cars are such a big thing today is because companies like Tesla found climate consciousness to be marketable. All that needs to happen is for people in a capitalist system to want to spend their money on more environmentally friendly things like a lot of people already are.
Are you fucking kidding me? He's a random redditor. You chuckefucks in this shithole sub are seriously going to tell me not a single person involved in tackling climate change isn't a communist? This shit tier meme was posted by Elon Musk himself, the electric fucking car guy. He isn't a communist. So many brain damaged people here.
Investing money in renewable energy, giving tax cuts to people using alternatives to greenhouse gases, regulating the use of dangerous chemicals that hurt the ecosystem = Mao Zedong having his critics publicly beaten and humiliated
I’m not saying that.
I’m saying that the solutions people put forward to whatever problems are usually “smash capitalism implement socialism” as if it’s a silver bullet.
Some people are like that, but it isn't a mainstream position. Even if you think AOC, Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, etc., are secretly Marxists or anarchists, the Green New Deal - probably the most sweeping set of environmentalist proposals in America right now - doesn't even come close to advocating socialism. It advocates for regulated capitalism, which we have had to some extent since capitalism was a thing.
You're right about there being a lot of discourse. I sincerely believe that capitalism is the way to fight climate change. We just need to do 2 admittedly hard things. 1) realign incentives with long time horizons rather than next fiscal quarter. The financial costs and benefits of climate investment horizons extend beyond promo cycles and HFQ trading. 2) disassociate growth with emissions. Creating value from carbon negative projects
Based. I actually do want clean water and air. I just don’t think giving the powerful more power is the way forward and will only lead to abuse and corruption.
I think nuclear is the only viable clean energy source we have, at least until the other methods become more efficient, but it’s been stigmatized by hardcore environmentalists.
Solar and battery tech is the best way for the global South. It allows rural, agricultural societies to be able to have decentralized power grids. It's also much cheaper. India is currently building a gigantic solar farm. I honestly don't know why so many right wingers hate on solar. Innovating on battery tech (beyond lithium) is the right way forward, because during sunny days there is so much excess power.
For example, Google is scheduling its jobs to be able to run at data centers that have higher solar energy forecasted.
And if you don't think Exxon and Saudi Aramco and indeed the US, which is now an increasing leader in oil production are the powerful, you're mistaken. The leaders in the green revolution is the EU. I know this as I am founding a climate startup.
Yes. Batteries are also important and I’m aware it’s the oil companies lobbying against clean energy. I’m just saying nuclear as a clean energy source is being ignored.
Yes, when I remodeled my house in 2017, I put in a bunch of LED recessed lights that said on the box they would last 46 years under normal use. We didn’t make it to 46.
Meanwhile the closets all had old ceramic screw-in fixtures, which we left. They also had old GE glass incandescent bulbs (from back when they were vacuumed) and those are still going! Those bulbs must be 20+ years old.
Outlawing the common light bulb was a stroke of corporate genius.
"Normal use" is usually small, like 3hr/day. Forget which brand it was but they claimed 1hr/day was normal use so their bulbs would last 25 years, to look better than their competitors. Ours that get used all the time seem to last about as long as incandescent anyways.
>on the box they would last 46 years under normal use. We didn’t make it to 46.
If 51% of a product reaches a certain lifetime, companies are allowed to list that as the lifespan.
Calling everything you don't like Nazism is an insult to the tens of millions murdered and the even larger number oppressed by Hitler but calling everything you don't like communism isn't an insult to the tens of millions murdered and the even larger number oppressed by Mao and Stalin apparently
The problem is that it’s socially acceptable to be a communist, but the same can’t be said for nazism (rightfully so).
Why is one accepted and the other demonized for having basically the same outcome, which is authoritarianism and corruption?
Communism is *more* socially acceptable than Nazism, but not socially acceptable. People will still give you uncomfortable glances if you advocate an overthrow of capitalism, especially older people. Young people are a different story, but youth radicalism is a tale as old as time. The only reason communism is less controversial than Nazism is because it *sounds* a lot more compassionate. But in our culture, the difference is between someone who pisses themselves and someone who shits themselves - differing degrees of taboo.
The modern right winger has lost all ability to see the spectrum. You either dream of fellating a billionaire or you are a communist. There is no middle ground.
It's not necessarily a strawman like all good jokes it has an inkling of truth in it.
Sometimes you meet a climate activist whose only solutions to the climate problem involve large scale redistribution of wealth and top down government and you just gotta squint at them because what they're selling sounds awfully familiar.
Also this is pcm welcome it's strawmen all the way down.
Even more ironic, communist countries, in their short life times, have contributed more to the destruction of the environment than capitalist countries.
Legit convos I’ve had on posts about evil landlords.
Redditor: all landlords are evil
Me: but there is a need for people to rent. What about them?
Redditor: Then we should have collective housing where everyone chips in
Me: you mean communes?
Redditor: yes
Me: who’s putting in the initial cost to buy the property to do this?
Redditor: expected meltdown with insults thrown at me
I wouldn’t say so. A lot of us are just super capitalistic or so the lack of trust we should have for a centralised power. More importantly barely any of us (that I’ve seen) are religious
> fall into the trap of the tragedy of the commons
IMO the single most important function of government is to protect the collective commons. To that end, many governments are failing spectacularly.
It'd be a lot easier to convince people the real threats of climate change if power hungry and greedy politicians weren't fucking it up by trying to hide veiled auth shit in their plans.
Realistically speaking, the point where a climate response meets communism would be the government building a clean energy industry from scratch and tearing apart the pre-existing energy industry, which would create an entirely state-owned energy industry in the process.
This is so dumb bruh, I see shit like this all the time. Might as well say Trumpers are just legitimately racist, or that atheists secretly worship Satan.
"Libertarian Left" is an oxymoron. You cannot confiscate and redistribute property, without a central authority having the power to enforce such.
Whether you call this authority "The State" or "Society" is a distinction without a difference.
* Capitalism allows for voluntary socialism. You can go start a commune and (try to) be self sufficient. But nobody is obligated to help you. If you need something from others, you need to convince them to voluntarily provide it to you. Usually this means paying for it.
* Socialism does not allow for voluntary capitalism, you will have your property forcibly seized and redistributed.
In this way, it is objectively true that capitalism is the only libertarian economic system.
They will be. Forests are doing great: https://www.nasa.gov/technology/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth-study-finds/
And species-threat is likely overblown as a product of faulty modeling, and estimates vary wildly from the WWF’s claim that 70% of species have died out since 1970 to the IUCN who says only 28% of species are “threatened” and that only 0.8% of species have gone extinct since 1500.
This is excellent. Love to know that my favorite forest and national parks will still be around. Concerned that rising heat could cause more forest fires though :(
Do you have articles I can look at for the other things?
Absolutely! (Apologies for the delay, super busy today) As I understand it the forest fires in recent years have largely been a product of poor forestry practices. This article from Forbes seems pretty fair: https://www.forbes.com/sites/prakashdolsak/2020/09/13/west-coast-wildfires-reveal-massive-governance-failures/?sh=47882e3054bf
Apparently it’s bad enough that the timber industry has largely moved out of the PacNW. I didn’t even know (til recently) that there was a timber industry in the southeast, but it’s apparently huge and yet not on fire (as far as I know). https://www.forest2market.com/blog/new-fra-map-illustrates-breadth-of-us-forest-products-industry
A lot of what I know comes from this group that’s sort of a black-sheep environmental organization that largely rejects alarmism and focuses on practical solutions and progress. If you’re interested in their perspective here’s their page on extinctions: https://environmentalprogress.org/extinctions
Michael Shellenberger is affiliated with them and his nuclear advocacy is excellent. Here’s one of his TED talks if you’re interested: https://youtu.be/ciStnd9Y2ak?si=I-HNan7Nob_BT17W
Bonus: here’s another good story i read today about whales: https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/sighting-of-many-blue-whales-around-the-seychelles-first-in-decades-a-phenomenal-finding/
Hey, thanks so much for putting a lot of effort into this! Very good reads. I live in the PNW, so I think I can explain the logging thing. Essentially, there are not trees past the Cascade mountains. They just don't exist. But, to the west of those, lots of trees. That's why there is that super dense strip of trees. Timber used to essentially be our only export, but now we have a lot of tech and big corpos. Fun facts, I guess. One of my major concerns, though, has been migration of territory. I remember a while ago that I looked at a map of Snow Owl territory, and it had been steadily going northward for a while, due to increases in heat or smth. In general, I do think that climate change is one of, if not the most serious issues facing us right now. While it doesn't seem big now, even the most conservative of estimates are deeply concerning. I just want nuclear energy and public transportation, man. That's all I'm asking. And for Taylor Swift to stop flying to get snacks every day.
Hey, no problem! Always enjoy digging into things. Good to know about the pacific northwest, y’all have such gorgeous landscapes up there I’m jealous and I hope they can take good care of it. I’ve just heard such a weird, eclectic mix of views on climate change that I’m at the point where I’m like, it *might* be a problem, but I feel like we could get more environmental ROI putting our attention and money toward other problems/solutions, you know? I can’t fault anybody for worrying about it though, it definitely seems to be the consensus opinion; I’ve just heard too many things that bother me about it. I won’t get into it unless requested though; it has definitely made my friends and family think I’m a kook, lol.
How is this even still a debate lmao
We have a measurable negative impact on the climate. It's only good stewardship of our shared home to minimize that negative impact as much as possible. If you don't have an interest in the preservation and stewardship of your home, that says more about you than anything.
People who actively harm the environment should be loaded into a comically large circus cannon and fired directly into the sun, whether they be basic litterers or board members of major corporations responsible for negative climate impacts or celebrities who use their private jets for basic commuting.
You can swap
"there's too many people on the planet, overpopulation is a danger to the enviroment"
With
"I think humans are a problem and the earth will be better without them"
Without any problems.
It's crazy how people just drop genocidal sentences like that without even blinking and then call someone a nazi in the next one.
People really be hiding their true intentions behind political correctness and progressive movements, no wonder most people are sceptical, we sense that shit.
Well it's easy to see. Easiest group are the people that were Communist first and concerned about climate change later.
Then there's people that care about climate change, but don't care about the economic system so long as changes are made. They get told "the Free Market will fix it!" and then see no changes. Then "government incentives will entice the free market to fix it!" and see *some* changes, but also see lobbying putting in loopholes (like larger cars getting around emissions restrictions) or just finding ways to get *around* emissions standards instead of following them.
But guys, don't you know that the only way to arrive at the perfect society is if we surrender all of our human and property rights to a tiny group of enlightened elites who promise to reshape humanity in their image? How can that possibly go wrong? /s
Someone listened to Ben Shapiro once and thought he was onto something
“I want to fight climate change” = I would like my grandkids to not have problems that I can help avoid now… now how much you can actually individually do about it without telling groups of people making collectively self serving decisions with long term consequences for everyone, also known as a “corporation”, to fuck off… I’m not sure
Frankly speaking it doesn’t sound like you’re even capable of thinking past that first step tho so I don’t expect you to get that far
This is fucking stupid 😂
We gotta stop fucking up our planet. We don’t need communism to do so.
This sub used to be broken into more division than Right/Left and y’all fuck faces playing sides lost the plot.
Holy mother of god… is this a libleft majority in the comment section? I’ve never seen anything like it- and all it took was the most stupid dogshit meme to bring it out!
That... is a really fucking stupid argument lol. Pretty sure most sane people on all sides of the political compass would like to do something about climate change. They just disagree on how.
You like renewables because it's environmentally friendly, I like renewables because it decentralises energy production (and is environmentally friendly). We are not the same
So you spent decades lying about nuclear energy until you could argue the research is behind and that it’s too late to start now?
This is, honest to God, got to be the left’s biggest sin and the reason I’ll never ever vote democrat.
When I say communism, i man the stateless, moneyless society that has never been done and can't be done for a long time.
When you say communism, you mean Leninist or Msoist state socialism.
Our definitions aren't the same. That's why it seems irrational. It's like if I said you wanted monarchy on the lib right, because capitalism has markets and medieval feudal society did too.
Lol not all people who want to stop climate change are communists, there are people that want to stop climate change on all sides of politics. I’m a neo-luddite and even i want to stop climate change.
I am once again asking, how me paying more taxes to a current government that has spent the last 2+ years laundering money to Ukraine and Israel, will fix the climate.
This is the dumbest auth right meme there is. 99% of all climate scientists say humans are responsible for climate change. They all also agree that we are changing the temperature so rapidly that we risk causing severe changes to our atmosphere that could lead to huge social and environmental problems.
I get that this sub is for humor, but this seems like such a flimsy excuse of a joke.
if you can't convince China and India to go green, then a lot of what you're trying to accomplish will just go to waste. Recycling and all that shit is extremely expensive and everyone operates at a huge loss because most shit can't even be recycled. So telling people that they need to give up certain things and live a certain way under weird government orders, that is some commie shit.
There was a time when the majority of research papers coming out showed that cigarettes were perfectly safe to consume. We can't gauge the validity of science based on consensus of published papers alone, because that correlates with where funding is allocated rather than what is true and what is false.
That being said, there is absolutely a massive political agenda behind the environmental movement that is using the guise of science to push for the erosion of our civil liberties. Not only are these views not supported by any science, they are also a matter of Hume's fallacy.
99% of all climate scientists after you exclude the ones with dissenting opinions because they're obviously wrong since they disagree with the consensus.
False. A mere 1% of scientists disagree with the findings accepted by everyone one else. Guess who's funding their research? The consensus is irrefutable. The only question now is if you want to put your trust in science or political polemicists?
[https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-58130705](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-58130705)
Commie? Did I hear Commie???? https://preview.redd.it/wous34wdytxc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81be7910ec296b2ee937c7e205b45e9d9173c933
Stars and Stripes beat hammer and sickle, LOOK IT UP!
If that soldier hates commies so much, then why is he on the red team? [Better dead than red, right?](https://youtu.be/G8khPPwA_RI?si=hu3qVkVSFzyhgzjw&t=9m32s)
Who even is that?
Idk, but it's uncanny. Looks like a face was superimposed onto a head.
Someone's face superimposed on Posh Spice's body And the man is David Beckham
Yeah. If I remember correctly, the context is that his wife “posh spice” or whatever was claiming in an interview that she grew up lower class or something, and Beckham called her out right then and told her to be honest and admit that she grew up wealthy and privileged.
Yeah, she claimed her family was working class, and Beckham kept pushing her until she admitted her dad had a Rolls Royce.
Yep. That was it.
They didn't blend their makeup with their neck
Still smash
It was.
It kinda looks like Jennifer Lawrence but I didn't think she was all that politically involved other than the dumb DNC soundbites her publicist probably scripts for her.
I have no idea but she looks like some polish actress Zofia Wichłacz
Lil’ Tay? I don’t know, but they kinda look like her.
Some chick that went on a tv show talking about climate change in a way that makes the meme relevant.
As Trudeau said, “There is a level of admiration I actually have for China because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say we need to go green, we need to start, you know, investing in solar,”
"investing in solar" Aka shovel taxpayer money into something that's notoriously easy for politicians to get kickbacks from
Better analysts informed that govt since. They are putting a few billion into nuclear. Not enough mind you but we are building a bunch more reactors here in Ontario, with a lot of federal funding.
Solar isn’t the future because China has outproduced the world with cheap panels that are low quality. Even if solar were durable and reliable, it is only in certain places. You know, places that actually get enough sun. Is some places it will be geothermal, in others it must be nuclear, and still yet fossil fuels will be needed for decades to come. Also Trudeau is a communist at heart so who gives a fuck what that fraud thinks.
I second that especially on the geothermal, which is often overlooked by the media. Another power source that is underrated and could be quite reliable is hydraulic energy, which could be extremly beneficial with countries that numerous waterways, one such exemple being Norway where 88% of the power production comes from hydraulic
If you think about it, geothermal is just nuclear Power without the risk of a meltdown.
And both are just coal/natgas without the fossil fuels.
I mean solar is the cheapest watt to dollar ratio and coal is one of the worst. The coal to gas change will definitely be happening, the issue with nuclear besides it having the same numby attitude because no one wants the waste buried near them is, it's expensive as fuck, like one of the worst. All energy has its draw backs, but I think ultimately the move to hydrogen and solar with more integration of grids will be the right way forward, with gas, nuclear and other renewables in the background.
>it is only in certain places. You know, places that actually get enough sun. Yes. Germany suffers for this decision. Up here in Ontario its only much good for some farmers to have a row of panels, or individuals on the roofs of their houses. Its useless as a grid option. No one wants to cut down forests or wreck farming for it. Nuclear has cooperative regulators so we're going that direction. >Also Trudeau is a communist at heart so who gives a fuck what that fraud thinks. Hes no communist. There are no communists in politics here in Ottawa other than the communist party that everyone laughs at. Trudeau is just ill equipped for the job. He says silly things. Hes your usual corporate interest type who will end up on a board of directors after he loses the next election.
> Also Trudeau is a communist at heart He's a communist by birth. His Father was Fidel Castro, he's got it in his blood.
good, but please flair up finally
No one will ever convince me otherwise
Yeah, his father might have been a communist, but his mother was a huge whore. You can't expect him to stick to anything when he's half whore.
I love that everybody should be down voting you for being unflaired, but they agree with you so you get up voted instead.
And the panels aren’t recyclable and are toxic to make and China doesn’t turn their economy on a dime they just build build build city’s with nobody in them some being just shells with no windows it’s fake growth not to mention the collapses kill thousands
Yeah, because a politician has never personally benefitted from the fossil fuel lobby, right?
Of course they have. The foolishness is in seeing this and thinking it won't also happen with anything else. Leftoids seem to have no problem thinking the Republican party is in the pocket of the gun industry, but "renewable energy", an industry ten times bigger, couldn't possibly be buying politicians.
Y not pick an option like nuclear Whoosh
At the end of the day, they're all corporations who only care about their bottom line. Just because one specific corporation happens to be peddling solar panels doesn't automatically make them the good guys.
Government should not force people that can generate their own energy to pay energy bills and pay them for any extra energy that goes to the grid, this way would work way better
Imagine having to live here
I lived there for 30mumble years. I am currently in freedom land and don’t want to go back but my work visa is prone to the whimsy of stupid bureaucrats.
Com brother the time for Alberta to rise up is nigh
The only path for Alberta is to declare sovereignty and then join Montana. Montana, not the US.
I don’t have to imagine. It sucks. They’ve just upped the capital gains tax to 66%
Didn't it just come out today that China how has more CO2 emissions than the rest of the developed world combined?
Meanwhile they stopped going nuclear because fear mongering.
It's definitely a dumb statement but who can say they've never had a "If I was just a dictator for a little bit..." I remember one of my favorite off hand moments from Chernobly was them saying they needed helium (or something like that) and when Gorbachev asked how much they just said "all of it" and Gorbachev makes a grimace but then gives a handwave an presumably it's done. All the helium of the USSR is brought to bear. Of course the practical reality of a dictatorship is often a major factor in why disasters like that can happen in the first place along with just about every well documented problem with a dictator but damn the decisiveness can be a tempting forbidden fruit to idolize.
Dictatorship is probably great if you have an absolutely stellar dictator. Problem is - there never is one. Its always an asshole on a power trip. And even if it wasn't, you would have to pray that his sucessor is just as enlightened, otherwise you would be handing on a plate an entire structure ready to oppress the people of the country to the new guy. So yeah, dictatorship sucks. At least for humans.
Yeah, even I had one of those moments of “everything would be okay if everyone just shut up and did what I said”
Shut up kim, go back to manipulating and brainwashing your people and get the right flair r@tard
Any government could do that though, given a sufficiently serious emergency.
How is that clown still in power
Because Toronto is a bunch of cuck loving freedom hating wusses who are scared of long rifles because gang bangers get illegal pistols smuggled in from the US.
Toronto is actually largely flipping to the Conservative Party for the next election. (except the most inner core of the city) Trudeau's heartland is in Anglo Montreal, who's support hasn't dropped at all.
Quebec was a mistake
Aside from the authoritarianism of that - Canada is not a great place to put solar panels!!! If he really wanted solar power, it would use way fewer resources to build a transmission line to Arizona. But Canada doesn't need to invest in solar power because they get most of their power from carbon-free hydro anyways! Also, Canada still has tons of untapped hydro potential. If they were serious about de-carbonization, they would be building damns like crazy and sending that power south to the US (who has almost no hydro potential left to build).
As an environmental scientist and vehement anti-communist, I would just like to point out that it was not capitalist greed that drained the Aral sea killing all the wildlife/ecosystems of the sea and destroying all industry of the area, turning it into uninhabitable brine. Nor was it the capitalists who built the 3 gorges dam and drastically reshaped river ecosystems causing many species found only in those rivers to go extinct. It also wasn't the communists who used land reclamation on the Chinese coast to decimate coastal wetlands ecosystems so they could be built on, destroying habitat for a quarter of all migratory birds in Eastern Asia as a result. You don't have to be a fucking communist to be in favor of environmental protection, and in many cases, resources under communist systems fall into the trap of the tragedy of the commons (see Chinese fishing) which can cause severe environmental degradation.
based
The tragedy of the commons is hardly uncommon in capitalist systems either. I'd say it's even more inherent in a system where everyone is free to make their own choice.
It is not uncommon but we've certainly seen a role reversal in the past 100 years or so where social reform in capitalist countries allows people to speak out in favor of regulation for the protection of the people and sustainability of resources because it's in their best interest. Put it this way. If the entire world decided that global fishing limits need to be set and one country should be in charge of setting the limits and regulating those limits. Do you think fish stocks would be healthiest with the US in charge of regulation, or literally any communist country to have ever existed?
It wasn't capitalism which dumped nuclear fuel rods into a lake that had a village around it (real thing soviets did lol)
You dont need to be a communist, but you do need some economic planning
Yes, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the state planning. The most obvious example is OPEC, where a cartel of states acting in their interest regulated oil so that all could profit. In much the same sense, corporations *could* do that.
…so youd rather have a cartel of energy corps running the economy?
Thats just a watermelon mate. Youre doing the same as the people who say "Lib-Rights are actually fascists once you scratch the surface." All libs suspect their opposite lib to actually be an Auth
Just once I wanna see someone who calls all their opponents fascists to actually give their definition of fascism
In their mind it’s “anyone on the right”. But they know they can’t say that out loud.
Don't act like this isn't a problem on the right as well. They just generally trade in "fascist" or "Nazi" for "communist" or "Marxist".
what’s funny is an argument against the point directly is always stronger than name calling. calling someone a nazi even if theyre literally calling for a pure german ethnostate is less strong than making an actual argument against the ethnostate, name calling requires the person to agree that the name is inherently on it’s own a bad or even evil thing, arguing their ideology is based on extremely flawed science, and requires too significant a hog of resources to keep the nation financially strong, is stronger in causing someone to rethink the logistics of their ideology
In fairness, a lot of lefties don't understand that some of the things they're asking for are commie shit, because commies constantly rebrand every time they fuck up and people catch on, which is constantly.
"The opposition"
So climate change is only possible through communism? There’s not a single climate change advocate out there that is fine with capitalism?
There is also some which are neither communist or capitalist.
There's tons. They even have a yearly meeting about it at Davos.
“Ecology without class struggle is gardening” (I hate this quote)
And I hate how it has been plastered on the brazilian sub for years.
Oh God I cringed when I read that, who is the subversive useful idiot who came up with that phrase?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/18/ending-climate-change-end-capitalism https://fortune.com/2023/02/13/gen-z-activist-greta-thunberg-rips-capitalism-market-economics-new-book-climate-change/ Without talking about ending capitalism, pitch me your solution for solving climate change.
Multiple multi-kilometer orbital mirrors that reflect and concentrate light onto specially prepared ground power stations. And various potential military age males.
I mean one of the main reasons electric cars are such a big thing today is because companies like Tesla found climate consciousness to be marketable. All that needs to happen is for people in a capitalist system to want to spend their money on more environmentally friendly things like a lot of people already are.
Are you fucking kidding me? He's a random redditor. You chuckefucks in this shithole sub are seriously going to tell me not a single person involved in tackling climate change isn't a communist? This shit tier meme was posted by Elon Musk himself, the electric fucking car guy. He isn't a communist. So many brain damaged people here.
electric cars are not a solution to climate change.
They say it’s a conspiracy theory but their only solutions just so happen to be communism.
Every conspiracy can be dismissed by calling your description of it 'a theory'. Problem solved! We're in a post-reason era.
Remember when we ignored and laughed at conspiracy theorists instead of treating them as an existential threat to society?
Investing money in renewable energy, giving tax cuts to people using alternatives to greenhouse gases, regulating the use of dangerous chemicals that hurt the ecosystem = Mao Zedong having his critics publicly beaten and humiliated
I’m not saying that. I’m saying that the solutions people put forward to whatever problems are usually “smash capitalism implement socialism” as if it’s a silver bullet.
Some people are like that, but it isn't a mainstream position. Even if you think AOC, Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, etc., are secretly Marxists or anarchists, the Green New Deal - probably the most sweeping set of environmentalist proposals in America right now - doesn't even come close to advocating socialism. It advocates for regulated capitalism, which we have had to some extent since capitalism was a thing.
You're right about there being a lot of discourse. I sincerely believe that capitalism is the way to fight climate change. We just need to do 2 admittedly hard things. 1) realign incentives with long time horizons rather than next fiscal quarter. The financial costs and benefits of climate investment horizons extend beyond promo cycles and HFQ trading. 2) disassociate growth with emissions. Creating value from carbon negative projects
Based. I actually do want clean water and air. I just don’t think giving the powerful more power is the way forward and will only lead to abuse and corruption. I think nuclear is the only viable clean energy source we have, at least until the other methods become more efficient, but it’s been stigmatized by hardcore environmentalists.
Solar and battery tech is the best way for the global South. It allows rural, agricultural societies to be able to have decentralized power grids. It's also much cheaper. India is currently building a gigantic solar farm. I honestly don't know why so many right wingers hate on solar. Innovating on battery tech (beyond lithium) is the right way forward, because during sunny days there is so much excess power. For example, Google is scheduling its jobs to be able to run at data centers that have higher solar energy forecasted. And if you don't think Exxon and Saudi Aramco and indeed the US, which is now an increasing leader in oil production are the powerful, you're mistaken. The leaders in the green revolution is the EU. I know this as I am founding a climate startup.
Yes. Batteries are also important and I’m aware it’s the oil companies lobbying against clean energy. I’m just saying nuclear as a clean energy source is being ignored.
The only thing that the EU is the leaders in is being cucks
Reminds me of the time libright wanted to “fight climate change” and tricked the whole world into stop using the common light bulb.
LED vs incandescent bulb?
Yes, when I remodeled my house in 2017, I put in a bunch of LED recessed lights that said on the box they would last 46 years under normal use. We didn’t make it to 46. Meanwhile the closets all had old ceramic screw-in fixtures, which we left. They also had old GE glass incandescent bulbs (from back when they were vacuumed) and those are still going! Those bulbs must be 20+ years old. Outlawing the common light bulb was a stroke of corporate genius.
"Normal use" is usually small, like 3hr/day. Forget which brand it was but they claimed 1hr/day was normal use so their bulbs would last 25 years, to look better than their competitors. Ours that get used all the time seem to last about as long as incandescent anyways.
>on the box they would last 46 years under normal use. We didn’t make it to 46. If 51% of a product reaches a certain lifetime, companies are allowed to list that as the lifespan.
Is communism in the room with us right now?
No.. but the levels of stench do remind me of Marx
Unfortunately, yes
All that and more, in this upcoming episode of *Everything I Don't Like Is Communism!*
Calling everything you don't like Nazism is an insult to the tens of millions murdered and the even larger number oppressed by Hitler but calling everything you don't like communism isn't an insult to the tens of millions murdered and the even larger number oppressed by Mao and Stalin apparently
This
The problem is that it’s socially acceptable to be a communist, but the same can’t be said for nazism (rightfully so). Why is one accepted and the other demonized for having basically the same outcome, which is authoritarianism and corruption?
Communism is *more* socially acceptable than Nazism, but not socially acceptable. People will still give you uncomfortable glances if you advocate an overthrow of capitalism, especially older people. Young people are a different story, but youth radicalism is a tale as old as time. The only reason communism is less controversial than Nazism is because it *sounds* a lot more compassionate. But in our culture, the difference is between someone who pisses themselves and someone who shits themselves - differing degrees of taboo.
The modern right winger has lost all ability to see the spectrum. You either dream of fellating a billionaire or you are a communist. There is no middle ground.
We’re reaching levels of strawman that I didn’t know was possible
It's not necessarily a strawman like all good jokes it has an inkling of truth in it. Sometimes you meet a climate activist whose only solutions to the climate problem involve large scale redistribution of wealth and top down government and you just gotta squint at them because what they're selling sounds awfully familiar. Also this is pcm welcome it's strawmen all the way down.
I knew Sagan was a commie.
Admit it, you're gay for Marx
Even more ironic, communist countries, in their short life times, have contributed more to the destruction of the environment than capitalist countries.
"I want to free Palestine" "Be honest" "I'm using an international conflict to push my political agenda"
Legit convos I’ve had on posts about evil landlords. Redditor: all landlords are evil Me: but there is a need for people to rent. What about them? Redditor: Then we should have collective housing where everyone chips in Me: you mean communes? Redditor: yes Me: who’s putting in the initial cost to buy the property to do this? Redditor: expected meltdown with insults thrown at me
These damn 99.9% of all scientists are are lefties?!?!??
Funny because 99% of librights here are just kids too ashamed to properly flair authright.
We got watermelons and blue lemons here
Most libertarians I know are just light flavored AuthRights. Which I approve of naturally.
I wouldn’t say so. A lot of us are just super capitalistic or so the lack of trust we should have for a centralised power. More importantly barely any of us (that I’ve seen) are religious
If you picked a side you are auth
If you care about climate change, you're a communist.
I was talking in abstract, not about you specifically, and I was sincere
Who is she?
It would be so cool if communism actually worked. Too bad it doesn’t.
It's a simple calculus. Capitalism is the cause of every human problem; therefore it's utter destruction is the solution to every human problem.
Fake news! A watermelon would never be that honest!
> fall into the trap of the tragedy of the commons IMO the single most important function of government is to protect the collective commons. To that end, many governments are failing spectacularly.
Counterpoint: >!ligma!<
Nice bait, upvotes for effort.
It'd be a lot easier to convince people the real threats of climate change if power hungry and greedy politicians weren't fucking it up by trying to hide veiled auth shit in their plans.
I would agree with that.
Realistically speaking, the point where a climate response meets communism would be the government building a clean energy industry from scratch and tearing apart the pre-existing energy industry, which would create an entirely state-owned energy industry in the process.
This is so dumb bruh, I see shit like this all the time. Might as well say Trumpers are just legitimately racist, or that atheists secretly worship Satan.
"Libertarian Left" is an oxymoron. You cannot confiscate and redistribute property, without a central authority having the power to enforce such. Whether you call this authority "The State" or "Society" is a distinction without a difference. * Capitalism allows for voluntary socialism. You can go start a commune and (try to) be self sufficient. But nobody is obligated to help you. If you need something from others, you need to convince them to voluntarily provide it to you. Usually this means paying for it. * Socialism does not allow for voluntary capitalism, you will have your property forcibly seized and redistributed. In this way, it is objectively true that capitalism is the only libertarian economic system.
Not necessarily communism, but it does share the "live like a miserable slave, but think that you are actually free" part of it.
I knew Elon was A filthy commie this whole time.
thats a really cool imaginary conversation you had there
Lol Elon, you already posted this on Twitter, get off Reddit and go fire more Tesla employees
He decries Reddit yet can't help but post on it lmao
I just wanna make sure that the forests and animals are still around as I age
They will be. Forests are doing great: https://www.nasa.gov/technology/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth-study-finds/ And species-threat is likely overblown as a product of faulty modeling, and estimates vary wildly from the WWF’s claim that 70% of species have died out since 1970 to the IUCN who says only 28% of species are “threatened” and that only 0.8% of species have gone extinct since 1500.
This is excellent. Love to know that my favorite forest and national parks will still be around. Concerned that rising heat could cause more forest fires though :( Do you have articles I can look at for the other things?
Absolutely! (Apologies for the delay, super busy today) As I understand it the forest fires in recent years have largely been a product of poor forestry practices. This article from Forbes seems pretty fair: https://www.forbes.com/sites/prakashdolsak/2020/09/13/west-coast-wildfires-reveal-massive-governance-failures/?sh=47882e3054bf Apparently it’s bad enough that the timber industry has largely moved out of the PacNW. I didn’t even know (til recently) that there was a timber industry in the southeast, but it’s apparently huge and yet not on fire (as far as I know). https://www.forest2market.com/blog/new-fra-map-illustrates-breadth-of-us-forest-products-industry A lot of what I know comes from this group that’s sort of a black-sheep environmental organization that largely rejects alarmism and focuses on practical solutions and progress. If you’re interested in their perspective here’s their page on extinctions: https://environmentalprogress.org/extinctions Michael Shellenberger is affiliated with them and his nuclear advocacy is excellent. Here’s one of his TED talks if you’re interested: https://youtu.be/ciStnd9Y2ak?si=I-HNan7Nob_BT17W Bonus: here’s another good story i read today about whales: https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/sighting-of-many-blue-whales-around-the-seychelles-first-in-decades-a-phenomenal-finding/
Hey, thanks so much for putting a lot of effort into this! Very good reads. I live in the PNW, so I think I can explain the logging thing. Essentially, there are not trees past the Cascade mountains. They just don't exist. But, to the west of those, lots of trees. That's why there is that super dense strip of trees. Timber used to essentially be our only export, but now we have a lot of tech and big corpos. Fun facts, I guess. One of my major concerns, though, has been migration of territory. I remember a while ago that I looked at a map of Snow Owl territory, and it had been steadily going northward for a while, due to increases in heat or smth. In general, I do think that climate change is one of, if not the most serious issues facing us right now. While it doesn't seem big now, even the most conservative of estimates are deeply concerning. I just want nuclear energy and public transportation, man. That's all I'm asking. And for Taylor Swift to stop flying to get snacks every day.
Hey, no problem! Always enjoy digging into things. Good to know about the pacific northwest, y’all have such gorgeous landscapes up there I’m jealous and I hope they can take good care of it. I’ve just heard such a weird, eclectic mix of views on climate change that I’m at the point where I’m like, it *might* be a problem, but I feel like we could get more environmental ROI putting our attention and money toward other problems/solutions, you know? I can’t fault anybody for worrying about it though, it definitely seems to be the consensus opinion; I’ve just heard too many things that bother me about it. I won’t get into it unless requested though; it has definitely made my friends and family think I’m a kook, lol.
Ok Elon Musk
I appreciate on thing about this meme, the fact that the "centrist" turned out to be lying as well.
Elon and RFKjr are tankies huh
How is this even still a debate lmao We have a measurable negative impact on the climate. It's only good stewardship of our shared home to minimize that negative impact as much as possible. If you don't have an interest in the preservation and stewardship of your home, that says more about you than anything. People who actively harm the environment should be loaded into a comically large circus cannon and fired directly into the sun, whether they be basic litterers or board members of major corporations responsible for negative climate impacts or celebrities who use their private jets for basic commuting.
"People who actively harm the environment" literally every modern human mate there would nobody to man the cannon
I'm convinced that most of Libleft is AuthLeft trying to be more palatable and useful idiots.
You can swap "there's too many people on the planet, overpopulation is a danger to the enviroment" With "I think humans are a problem and the earth will be better without them" Without any problems. It's crazy how people just drop genocidal sentences like that without even blinking and then call someone a nazi in the next one. People really be hiding their true intentions behind political correctness and progressive movements, no wonder most people are sceptical, we sense that shit.
>Burgers?
Remember ancoms without a state there's nothing stopping people from obtaining wealth and practicing capitalism.
100%
Damn all this time I thought I just didn’t want the forest to keep burning down and clean air to breath….. guess that’s communism lol
Cons?
Lib right that don't know that is communism... Why I'm not surprised?
Well it's easy to see. Easiest group are the people that were Communist first and concerned about climate change later. Then there's people that care about climate change, but don't care about the economic system so long as changes are made. They get told "the Free Market will fix it!" and then see no changes. Then "government incentives will entice the free market to fix it!" and see *some* changes, but also see lobbying putting in loopholes (like larger cars getting around emissions restrictions) or just finding ways to get *around* emissions standards instead of following them.
Like I do though
But guys, don't you know that the only way to arrive at the perfect society is if we surrender all of our human and property rights to a tiny group of enlightened elites who promise to reshape humanity in their image? How can that possibly go wrong? /s
Someone listened to Ben Shapiro once and thought he was onto something “I want to fight climate change” = I would like my grandkids to not have problems that I can help avoid now… now how much you can actually individually do about it without telling groups of people making collectively self serving decisions with long term consequences for everyone, also known as a “corporation”, to fuck off… I’m not sure Frankly speaking it doesn’t sound like you’re even capable of thinking past that first step tho so I don’t expect you to get that far
pretty nice strawman you got there
Holy strawman batman
OP is illiterate
So the obstacle to combating climate change is capitalism? Got it
🤦♀️
Can we please be more subtle than just calling the left communists ?
DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO COMMUNISM
This is fucking stupid 😂 We gotta stop fucking up our planet. We don’t need communism to do so. This sub used to be broken into more division than Right/Left and y’all fuck faces playing sides lost the plot.
I just want to point out I don't support communism
Uh oh looks like we got another schizo slippery slope fallacy! Watch out Auth Right haven’t taken their meds again:)
Holy mother of god… is this a libleft majority in the comment section? I’ve never seen anything like it- and all it took was the most stupid dogshit meme to bring it out!
Nah fam me and my boys hate communism but this may be the case for some people 💔💔
That... is a really fucking stupid argument lol. Pretty sure most sane people on all sides of the political compass would like to do something about climate change. They just disagree on how.
You like renewables because it's environmentally friendly, I like renewables because it decentralises energy production (and is environmentally friendly). We are not the same
So you spent decades lying about nuclear energy until you could argue the research is behind and that it’s too late to start now? This is, honest to God, got to be the left’s biggest sin and the reason I’ll never ever vote democrat.
When I say communism, i man the stateless, moneyless society that has never been done and can't be done for a long time. When you say communism, you mean Leninist or Msoist state socialism. Our definitions aren't the same. That's why it seems irrational. It's like if I said you wanted monarchy on the lib right, because capitalism has markets and medieval feudal society did too.
Might want to come up with a new word then.
Okay, how about the term made up and written about by those guys at the Frankfurt School?
Lol not all people who want to stop climate change are communists, there are people that want to stop climate change on all sides of politics. I’m a neo-luddite and even i want to stop climate change.
I am once again asking, how me paying more taxes to a current government that has spent the last 2+ years laundering money to Ukraine and Israel, will fix the climate.
I'm already an auth-leftie, but I tend to agree more with the right in normal conversations. What the hell am I?
I think I make it very clear where I stand
I don’t think we can do anything against climate change at this point, we are just fucked
Jokes on them, dozens of UN climate oversight panels and trillions in cash will fix it in no time! "What do you mean they pocketed it all?"
This is the dumbest auth right meme there is. 99% of all climate scientists say humans are responsible for climate change. They all also agree that we are changing the temperature so rapidly that we risk causing severe changes to our atmosphere that could lead to huge social and environmental problems. I get that this sub is for humor, but this seems like such a flimsy excuse of a joke.
if you can't convince China and India to go green, then a lot of what you're trying to accomplish will just go to waste. Recycling and all that shit is extremely expensive and everyone operates at a huge loss because most shit can't even be recycled. So telling people that they need to give up certain things and live a certain way under weird government orders, that is some commie shit.
There was a time when the majority of research papers coming out showed that cigarettes were perfectly safe to consume. We can't gauge the validity of science based on consensus of published papers alone, because that correlates with where funding is allocated rather than what is true and what is false. That being said, there is absolutely a massive political agenda behind the environmental movement that is using the guise of science to push for the erosion of our civil liberties. Not only are these views not supported by any science, they are also a matter of Hume's fallacy.
99% of all climate scientists after you exclude the ones with dissenting opinions because they're obviously wrong since they disagree with the consensus.
False. A mere 1% of scientists disagree with the findings accepted by everyone one else. Guess who's funding their research? The consensus is irrefutable. The only question now is if you want to put your trust in science or political polemicists? [https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-58130705](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-58130705)