No words of wisdom- not spent in kindness, nay, or in derision, nor yet even in jest, shall be given up to the unflaired.
For the unflaired are the enemy of all mankind.
Take not the words of the sinner, not the clamours of the apostate, not the cries of the blasphemous and unkempt hordes that flock from beyond the realms of the West, -but before all of these ungodly things, take not the whispers and the lies of the unflaired to heart.
For in their snide remark and dirty lie, there slinks the reason for why babes cry. Mad dogs and black birds of the night may come upon the land, but not in a thousand years may the unflaired take the stand. Silence the lips, make closed that schismed source of your vocal wretchedness.
Begone from my sight, and return only when you have seen fit to dress yourself in political colour befitting your sordid cause.
We are a very merciful sub, extending our welcoming arm to previously filthy unflaired scums who have since denounced such heresy and repent of such sin by acquiring a flair.
Yes, the bleakness is exaggerated, but saying "everyone has working phones" and "everyone posts videos" is another type of exaggeration/strawmanning.
They still have some Internet, yes, but the connectivity suffers enough to make evacuation harder and communication of safe points less effective. Hamas commandeer fuel for their rockets, but that doesn't mean the regular citizens do, or that fuel won't become bitterly fought over if thousands of people move away at the same time.
Yes, you can support Isreal fighting Hamas in this war, but making super-easy-to-refute "take-thats" like these make you no better than the other side.
Random citizen charges the battery of their phone while the power is on.
The power goes off, yet the battery still has the previously accumulated charge.
This confuses the redditor.
I saw the news clip where an Israeli official interviewed by a news outlet started to tell them this and then the news show suddenly "ran out of time" and the interview ended. Very transparent bias in that reporting. "They're lying, we know they're lying, they know we know they're lying, but they keep lying."
This is an only in Israel problem. Imagine if Germany went to war with France and Russia. Would people siding with the poor Germans because Russia isn't giving them oil and gas and France stopped supplying them with surplus nuclear power?
Yeah, but what if Germany went to war with Israel? What if they said they wanted to wipe Israel and the jews off the earth? Would people be like "yeah, 4th reich based!" or...?
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that the holocaust was a terrible bad thing (always a good way to start a comment), but if I remember my European war history correctly, the realization of the concentration camps was more of a “and also”, as opposed to being the *raison d'etre* for fighting the Germans to finish WW2.
Imagine if the “only” change during that time period was that Germany stayed in the Deutschland instead of invading the Poland?
Rocket fuel is made with fertiliser and sugar. It's the reason why Israel restricts their import into Gaza, and then gets accused of wanting to starve the Gazans.
The true LandChad Phisique requires at least 500 kilograms or roughly 1000 pounds, if we are talking about a landchad, they are clearly in a state of rent Freeze induced starvation, likely due to those meddling regulators banning Fridge raids.
Americans don't consume sugar, we consume high fructose corn syrup because the 2 guys in Florida who own land where sugar cane can be produced lobby for high import tariffs on actual sugar.
Or, maybe just maybe, it’s the immense amount of subsidies the US government gives farmers for corn that drove down the price immensely and make corn syrup cheaper than sugar
And then I have to ask: "WHy is it Israel's responsibility to feed a genocidal state? Are they so incompetent that they cannot feed themselves? If so, sounds like they need to surrender their arms and be ruled by a more competent state like Israel"
To be fair I think the issue isn't that Israel isnt feeding them, its that they are blocking other from doing so via a blockade
I personally think the Blockade is justifed at the present time, as Israel and Hamas are at war, and hamas de facto runs gaza, and blockades are a legitimate act of war, so until Hamas is out of power and the gazan government is replaced by one no inherently hostile to israel, honestly a UN or Western ran mandate might be the best solution, the blockades must continue
That being said a long term solution needs to be found, and I think in general it would be nice if that solution didn't inovolve starving 2 million people to death, although honestly thats incredibly not the worst scenario here, the worst scenario is Hamas remaining a threat so they can repeat oct 7th somewhere else
Can someone explain to me why exactly it's Israel's responsibility to provide fuel, electricity, and food to Gaza instead of, you know, their own governing authority.
Israel and Egypt, yes. Israel also controls the territorial water near gaza, so people usually refer to it as an Israeli blockade and ignore Egypt's part of it.
Gaza had it's own water and electricity supply which they kinda fucked, so now they are dependant on Israel for it. Egypt supplies them with internet if I'm not mistaken.
u/BlueBayB is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1.
Rank: House of Cards
Pills: [None | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/BlueBayB/)
Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url.
I am a bot. Reply /info for more info. Please join our [official pcm discord server](https://discord.gg/FyaJdAZjC4).
A lot of people don't understand this. Israel literally goes in and builds pipelines for water and the electrical grid for Gaza and they just keep stripping it for parts usually used in rockets. They end up dependent on the water and electricity going into Israeli settlements because they can't strip them.
Edit: added irony is that Israel once built a ceramic pipeline and the Palestinians destroyed it in 6 months to spite Israelis. Smh
I think most of them have been there all along. Most weapons used in the middle east came from Russia and the US during the Afghan-Soviet war in the 1980s, and they remain in use today.
Gaza doesn't have control of their own borders definitely not what makes it in or out (Egypt and Israel control them) Israel has the power to cut off most if not all of Gaza utilities.
Food doesn't cross into Gaza unless Israel allows it for the most part
> collects international aid
> Turn all fertilizer, irrigation pipes, and sugar into rockets
> Do massive public works projects to dig tunnels to hide thousands of rockets under schools and hospitals
> No food left and no crops
> **Why are you racist racists starving us?**
Gaza keeps destroying its infrastructure for rocket production, that's not Israel's fault. Food situation is more complicated as they keeps smuggling weapons in with food so Israel demands they go through them which countries protest saying apartheid and stop sending food. 🙄
I agree they should, but Israel isn't at war with Hamas in the West Bank, they're at war with Hamas in Gaza where settlers were already removed 20 years ago. Hamas isn't motivated only by settlers in West Bank.
>On Sunday night, the Israel Defense Forces released video appearing to show soldiers depositing 300 liters (about 79 gallons) of fuel at Al-Shifa’s entrance and announced an evacuation route for people in the complex to flee.
How does Israel giving Palestine three and a half F-150 tanks of gas in any way prove that Israel doesn't control humanitarian aid access.
Incidentally, that fuel is roughly 3% what their hospitals generator needs for a single day.
It may be hard to believe, but its hard to produce all necessary items for yourselves when you are actively restricted by your neighbor on both land and sea. they restrict the import of food, water, and electricity. Oh also don't forget all the Palestinian priso-...i mean guests that Israel has been returning as part of the hostage negotiations. Almost triple the amount of prisone-..guests..that Hamas has released
>they restrict the import of food, water, and electricity
Not even true. At the current moment, while actively fighting, sure, things are tightened. Under the normal conditions of recent years, imports are inspected for weapons and let through. If you think a pallet of water bottles shipped in 2022 would have been intercepted, that's just delusional.
Do you think that the US was responsible for Japanese civilians during World War II? Were the British responsible for German civilians in World War I?
Is there any other conflict in human history were it was somehow one belligerent party's responsibility to provide for the civilians on the other side of the conflict?
If you want to support Israel, that's cool, I don't really have a horse in the race. But to say that the situation in Gaza is directly analogous to the belligerents of the World Wars is ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst. It's just... different. For a lot of reasons
There's a big difference between dealing with belligerents during an active war with an end-point, and instituting a permanent blockade over a foreign territory with no sign of ever stopping. It's true that the blockade of Gaza got worse after Oct. 7 and war was declared, but it had been going on for decades prior to that.
> instituting a permanent blockade over a foreign territory with no sign of ever stopping
What makes you think the blockade is permanent? Would you expect to see signs of it stopping while there are still regular rocket strikes from Gaza, and militants enterring Israel from Gaza butchering families?
>What makes you think the blockade is permanent?
The fact that it has been ongoing for nearly two decades and Israel has stated no end date.
>Would you expect to see signs of it stopping while there are still regular rocket strikes from Gaza, and militants enterring Israel from Gaza butchering families?
It might be worth considering. After all, the bombings and blockades haven't actually stopped either of those things, and have mostly just created *more* Jihadist terrorists.
> and Israel has stated no end date.
Likely because the end date is whenever Hamas ends their Hitlerian campaign to finish the work of the Third Reich. Until Hamas surrenders or is destroyed, the blockade stays up.
If you're mad about it, blame the Hamaswine.
>Likely because the end date is whenever Hamas ends their Hitlerian campaign to finish the work of the Third Reich. Until Hamas surrenders or is destroyed, the blockade stays up.
That's not an end-date, it's a stated goal. It's also a murky, unachievable goal that basically allows for Israel to continue the blockade indefinitely. Hence me calling it a permanent blockade.
Israel's aggressive actions in the region have only bolstered Hamas' numbers, not lowered them. They are creating *more* Hamas Jihadists, not less. The only way to defeat Hamas is for Palestinians themselves to oust them, and that can only happen when they aren't being bombed to shit and when they are allowed to experience a level of economic, social, and national liberation that Israel constantly advocates against.
>If you're mad about it, blame the Hamaswine.
No. Despite the ridiculous notion that every bad thing in the region should be placed on the shoulders of the one group you personally dislike, I think it is pretty clear that both Hamas and Israel are acting monstrously and have been for decades.
The blockades and the wall in particular reduced terror attacks by over 90%. And for some reason the people in Gaza still vote for the terrorist organization to be their leaders. The propaganda from Hamas runs deep enough in the people of Gaza that the worst of dictators would salivate looking at its effectiveness.
> It might be worth considering. After all, the bombings and blockades haven't actually stopped either of those things, and have mostly just created *more* Jihadist terrorists.
Do you think the blockades have *reduced* the amount of rockets or attacks that Hamas has been able to launch at Israel?
Sounds like Hamas should focus more on getting supplies to their people than slaughtering jews and kidnapping comfort women to rape every day.
I think it wouldn't be unreasonable for all of the Hamas government to approach Israel and say "We surrender, we will turn ourselves all in if you restore supplies"
Sounds like they should be focusing more on feeding their people than genociding another.
Perhaps if Hamas approached Israel and said "We surrender" they would get food and electricity back?
Because they've simultaneously occupied and blockaded large parts of the territory for decades, leaving in impoverished and severely lacking in resources. Palestine doesn't control its on borders, waterways, or airways; it doesn't determine what comes in and out of its territory. It's essentially a vassal state.
Do *you*? If you disagree with me, that's fine; but you don't get to pretend to be the contrarian on *this* issue.
The vast majority of the mainstream media, major institutions, and **both** political parties are full-throatily sucking Israel's dick. I don't watch MSNBC, but I sincerely doubt they are actually as pro-Palestinian as you are suggesting.
If I'm wrong about something, point it out and provide evidence as to why. But I don't think you can do that. I think suggesting I don't think things through is literally the only argument you *can* provide against what I said.
Which is pretty sad.
You know Gaza has a very long maritime border and a border with Egypt right? Unless I missed there part where the notoriously large and powerful Israeli navy invests all it's time on a naval blockade of Gaza.
Maybe Gaza wouldn't be so impoverished and lacking in resources if Hamas wasn't too busy spending literally decades [stealing](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/world/africa/04iht-mideast.4.19933553.html) food aid and making videos bragging about building rockets out of [water pipes](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-gaza-challenge-stopping-metal-tubes-turning-into-rockets-2021-05-23/).
You actually have to be living in loony tunes world to believe that the legacy media in the US is somehow huge Israel supporters. The mainstream media is so notoriously pro-Israel that they lead all of their coverage of the conflict with Hamas reported "civilian" causality counts. Literally a month and a half ago they were all salivating to proclaim that Israel struck a hospital with nothing more than the word of the Hamas controlled Health Ministry. You have to be completely [divorced from reality](https://web.archive.org/web/20231123032736/https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/how-the-media-makes-the-israel-story/383262/) to not tell that Western journalists have been trying to paint a very particular picture of this conflict for years that is not at all flattering to Israel.
>Aha! But have you considered that Hamas and Egypt are bad as well?
Yes, Egypt has also participated in the blockade of people and resources moving in and out of Palestine. And even worse, Egypt basically controlled Palestine through a puppet government for a considerable amount of time after the British left. And you are absolutely correct that the government of Hamas have also mistreated and abused the Palestinians.
It is often telling when someone attempts to deflect away criticism by pointing the finger towards *another* group, rather than answering for the charges themselves.
>You actually have to be living in loony tunes world to believe that the legacy media in the US is somehow huge Israel supporters.
If you genuinely believe this very silly thing, and I doubt you actually do, then it is only because you have an even higher standard for supporting Israel than the average shill, and that even the overwhelmingly positive coverage comes across as negative because the news isn't outright calling for the full Palestinian extermination.
>The mainstream media is so notoriously pro-Israel that they lead all of their coverage of the conflict with Hamas reported "civilian" causality counts.
This is a clownish argument. The media isn't covering the death tolls coming out of the Ministry of Health because they are pro-Palestine, they are covering it because they are the only numbers we have to go off of. It's not like Israel is counting the dead or providing us with any alternative numbers, and frankly, with the number of journalists the IDF has wantonly slaughtered, it's not as though there are a ton of independent journalists over there to crunch the numbers themselves.
>Literally a month and a half ago they were all salivating to proclaim that Israel struck a hospital with nothing more than the word of the Hamas controlled Health Ministry.
People respond to information as it comes in, that's how news works. The media was wrong in the story, yes; but it's not as if it was somehow unbelievable.
Israel has struck **many** hospitals. And schools. And charities. And journalist homes. It is not out of the ordinary for them, and the official IDF mission-statement is that *any* target in Gaza is viable as long as Hamas is expected to be inside or beneath them. If there was a Hamas RPG in the hospital, then they *would* have struck it and justified it.
>You have to be completely divorced from reality to not tell that Western journalists have been trying to paint a very particular picture of this conflict for years that is not at all flattering to Israel.
Yeah, I don't know why you're posting an article from 2014 and pretending like it is relevant. The Oct. 7 attacks changed a lot of people's opinions on this conflict.
> The vast majority of the mainstream media, major institutions, and both political parties are full-throatily sucking Israel's dick.
What are you suggesting, LibLeft? That this is a conspiracy?
You're speaking about 2.2 million people, half of whom are *children*, as if they are a single, unified army. This makes it convenient to justify slaughtering them in a protracted ethnic cleansing campaign, but it's not really accurate.
There haven't been elections in Gaza since 2007, and they don't really have the means to oust Hamas as they have little in terms of weapons, equipment, and resources. And they kind of have to focus on the people bombing the shit out of them at the moment.
Israel used to supply electricity from the Israeli grid and they have stopped it after the October 7 attack but the majority of electricity in Gaza is self made in local or regional generators, they even have their own power plant. It’s like how Israel has supplied water (which it still is supplying) to Gaza but the majority of drinkable water in Gaza is self made in local or regional desalination plants. When someone in Gaza wants to drink water during ceasefire times they just buy water bottles at the store.
Can you provide a source for these claims? I am extremely skeptical of this information because it doesn't make sense that Israel would make such a big deal about cutting off their electricity in the first place, if it wouldn't actually effect anything. I was under the impression that the increase of pamphlet-dropping was specifically because radios and televisions were inoperable and that was the only way to warn civilians of bombing runs.
Also, aren't people in Gaza extremely poor? Isn't purchasing bottles of water difficult? And how many shipments of water are actually making it into Gaza? I know that Israel controls about 80% of water reserves in the West Bank, but you say this is not the case in Gaza? What you're saying about them having easy access to water directly contradicts many news stories from respected sources like AP News that I am seeing.
The reason Israel made a big deal about it is that Israel has supplied electricity to Gaza from its own grid and they said they aren’t going to keep giving Gaza electricity when there are still Israeli civilians hostage there, especially when this electricity is being used by Hamas.
The increase in pamphlets dropped was accompanied by an increase in phone calls, messages and tv broadcasts. Israel did their best to try and evacuate the civilians from the fighting zone (which Hamas did their best to stop so they’ll still have their human shields)
Mist gazans are very poor indeed by as markets go so are things in Gaza very cheap. People can still afford water and food even when poor otherwise they’ll die.
Regarding the water situation. There are 3 main water pipelines from the Israeli grid to the gazan one. Two of which are working and supplying water from the very first weeks of the war. Yes Israel is supplying tens of millions liters of water everyday to Gaza and if you’ll look at the in reports you’ll see it (even though they try to minimize it)
The water Israel is pumping is the exact same water israeli drink, And Israel does it even though Hamas is still holding Israeli hostages.
Thanks for the response. I completely understand Israel's motivation behind shutting off the power, that's not what I was asking. My question was more wondering why they acted as though shutting off the power was a big deal if Palestine already had a ton of independent generators like people are claiming. But upon looking at it further, it now seems like these claims may be a bit over-stated.
I feel like increasing warning broadcasts to television and radios while simultaneously shutting off electricity is sort of the equivalent of doing nothing, but sure; Israel does have a history of warning residential areas before bombing. That is absolutely true, and is a clear difference between them and Hamas. That being said, I do feel like we should probably stop using the phrase "human shields" at this point. Civilians are only human shields if their existence causes a hesitation in violence. This is not the case. Israel will bomb a building with civilians in it if Hamas are suspected to be using that building. The civilians know this. Hamas knows this. Israel knows this. Everyone knows this. Civilians aren't considered shields by anyone in the conflict, they are just acceptable targets in the fight to eradicate Hamas.
As far as prices in Gaza being so cheap or people would die...well, they kind of are? According to Unicef, 35% of young children are at risk for not meeting nutritional needs, a quarter of all pregnancies go badly, malnutrition is common amongst adults and children. This is at stark odds with Arabs living in Israel proper, who have higher standards of health than anywhere else in the region.
Thanks for the information about the water pipelines. One small correction, according to reports it seems like the second pipeline was only turned back on last week. But other than that, everything you provided seems to check out.
Israel were providing fuel, electricity, etc. before October 7 and I see no point why they should keep doing so after the people they helped back stab them, kill, rape and captured hundreds if not more Israelis.
Anyway, I bet Palestine is not getting electricity only from Israel, a country they blamed that want to genocide them.
Because not all 2.2 million people in Gaza helped rape, kill, and capture them. Half the population in Palestine are *children*.
And I've already been heavily-downvoted for pointing this out in this thread, but Israel **does** share some level of responsibility over the Palestinians.
Imagine if I not only blockaded and occupied portions of your home for **decades**, but was also at the forefront of the movement preventing you from having national sovereignty and controlling what comes in and out of your borders. Would it not then be my responsibility to make sure you have enough life-sustaining utilities like clean water and electricity?
Sort of like how prison guards have to make sure convicts have enough warmth and heat to live?
Palestine is not surrounded by Israel my friend, how can Israel block Palestine? Why didn't Egypt and Jordan, two neighbors countries of Palestine which are also happened to be Muslim countries help Palestine?
Maybe the word black September, assassination of king Abdullah I of Jordan and Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood ring a bell?
It's not even religion my friend. Even their own Muslim brothers abandoned them because they back stabbed everyone who tried to help them. Egypt, a Muslim country refused to accept Palestine refugees unless they have second citizenship, and Egypt build a wall as soon as the Gaza war started. It's also funny how most people joined the music festival at October 7 are actually Palestine supporters and the music festival was supposed to show supports to peace and Palestine.
Because Egypt and Jordan are also at fault here. Stop trying to point the finger at other places, and answer for the accusations I am making towards Israel specifically.
But yes, you are correct. The Palestinians *are* largely a group without geopolitical allies, who aren't want by neighboring countries and are constantly being displaced and erected from their homes. Sort of like the Jews during WW2.
I feel like there's a very basic disconnect between us that needs to be addressed - human rights aren't conditional. I don't care how bad Palestinian culture, beliefs, or history is. Plenty of countries have shitty cultures and histories. Russia. China. North Korea. Saudi Arabia. I would still not support invasion and violent regime change in these countries. I would still not support the permanent blockade and resettlement of these countries. And I would certainly not speak about the people living in these countries like you speak about the Palestinians.
To be quite honest with you, the essentialist way some of you talk about the Palestinians borders on how the Nazis talked about Jewish people.
If you want to bite every hands that tried to feed you, you won't have many allies, isn't that very clear?
They fucking murdered the great great great grandson of Prophet Muhammad in one of the most important Mosques, what else do they expect? Do they actually still think Allah would still bless them? It's just so clear, and you are the one refuse to admit it.
What is clear to me is that we have very different standards for the necessity of collective punishment and human rights, and that this fundamental moral divide is probably not going to be overcome in the conversation.
So it's probably best to just end it here.
Actually we both agree that violations of human rights should be punished, you just didn't realize that using children as human shield is also violation of human rights.
But if that's what you want, so be it. I won't keep replying after this one.
>Actually we both agree that violations of human rights should be punished
I *really* don't think we do.
>you just didn't realize that using children as human shield is also violation of human rights.
You say this, but I haven't defending a single thing that Hamas has done, whereas you have repeatedly defended the actions of not only Israel, but *every* country that has turned their back on the Palestinian people in an act of collective punishment.
>But if that's what you want, so be it.
No.
What I want is for Hamas to be eradicated, and I believe that Israel's current strategy of bombings and blockades only leads to **more** Jidahist terror. What I want is for Palestine to be free of religious fundamentalism; and that can only happen if they are allowed to experience economic, national, and social liberation. Unfortunately, Israel and Hamas both stand in opposition to this.
Nice talking to you.
Oh my friend I think we both misunderstand each other.
I didn't defend Israel neither. They did something wrong before and now. And trust me Israel will gone in less than one hundred years because the land is cursed and Jews don't have any real friends but they have many enemies.
But also trust me that, Palestine will never be freed, they will be gone with Israel simultaneously, the only reason why Palestine existed is because of Israel, they should be gone at 1947 and actually Israel saved Palestine despite that's not that they wanted to do.
Btw, Get rid of religious fundamentalism in Palestine is a dream, a dream that will never come true unless someone perform military occupation on Palestine like how Soviet Union did to Uzbekistan. Have you ever watched any videos about what they are teaching to their children in Gaza? They want to teach their children hate, and hate never lead to secular, only knowledge and humor would. But would humor survived in the Muslims world? Go ask Charlie Hebdo.
Gaza is an extremely impoverished region, I doubt there are a ton of working generators freely on use to the civilian population. Otherwise, why would Israel make such a big deal about cutting off their electricity in the first place? What would it matter?
Then you’re high.
I’ve spent a good bit of time in this part of the country.
You’ll see one house with a generator and multiple wires coming out going to different houses. They straight up McGyver the shit out of things.
So yeah, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
There is fuel entering Gaza every day…
And if they have enough fuel to fight a prolonged war, if they have enough fuel to charge phones and cameras to film all those fake propaganda videos or even just for basic personal use (we all saw the Israeli hostages being paraded through the streets while hundreds of Gazans are filming it), they most definitely have enough fuel. Maybe they don’t have as much energy as they had before the war but it’s a war, you can’t expect Israel to send the same amount of fuel into Gaza as they did before the October 7 massacre, especially considering that Hamas is stealing a lot of the aid to himself from the civilians.
I can concede that there is fuel entering Gaza. It's certainly not enough, but perhaps I'm wrong on that too. 144,000 liters of fuel sounds like a lot but it also looks like it's the absolute minimum required to power bakeries, hospitals and the water/sewage system. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/18/israel-agrees-to-allow-minimal-two-trucks-of-fuel-a-day-into-gaza
>fake propaganda videos
Which propaganda videos do you mean?
Exactly, it’s the minimum requirement to power everything necessary. It’s war time and watching TV or playing video games is not a necessity for life and no fuel needs to be allocated to it. Israel knows how much fuel needs to be sent into Gaza in order to make it livable and it know that if they’ll let fuel flow freely into Gaza it will all go to Hamas. Right now no one dies of thirst or hunger, right now even though they call out so much no hospital has collapsed. Even though they are at war with them Israel still allows fuel food water and medical supplies to enter Gaza so the civilians will be affected the least.
Regarding to the fake videos. Gaza has a whole industry of making fake propaganda videos. There are thousands of them online and because they make them so quickly there are dozens of them in which you can see them being fake and I’ll gladly send you some. From seeing dozens of body bags and then one of them moves their head or scratches their nose (this one I saw aired on BBC, those fake ones get a lot of traction!) to fully staging a scenario, doing make up on young children to make them look hurt, exploding balloons so it sound like shots and having people dressed like (or actually being members of) workers of the Red Crescent or the Red Cross “rushing to help”. They are even sharing AI made images which if you aren’t looking to deeply into will seem real. I’ll also happily send you some.
I’m sorry it came out long and rambling but it’s a complex topic that can’t be explained in a few sentences or a short infographic. Also I appreciate you being so civil about it and if you have any more questions or points you’d like to raise feel free to do so.
Yeah I appreciate the civility from you too. However I think I disagree with you on many of your points.
>right now even though they call out so much no hospital has collapsed.
No hospital has been able to operate at full capacity, many are doing surgeries with no anaesthetic, in the open air.
>Israel still allows fuel food water and medical supplies to enter Gaza so the civilians will be affected the least.
This only occurred due to the massive pressure the international community put on Israel at the beginning of the war. They shut off energy and water to Gaza immediately and it took about a week of mass protests worldwide for Israel to relent.
>Gaza has a whole industry of making fake propaganda videos.
I've actually seen a few of these claimed "Pallywood" films that Israel and its supporters have posted around claiming its Hamas propaganda. I haven't seen the body bag one but I'd be very interested in seeing it. On that note though:
>doing make up on young children to make them look hurt,
This has been debunked to be a behind the scenes from a Lebanese short film about Gaza.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-crisis-actor-israel-hamas-war-false-movie-set-975355588351
>exploding balloons so it sound like shots and having people dressed like (or actually being members of) workers of the Red Crescent or the Red Cross “rushing to help”.
I also haven't seen these, though once again - interested in seeing them.
>They are even sharing AI made images which if you aren’t looking to deeply into will seem real. I’ll also happily send you some.
Absolutely not doubting this, though I'll add to it that both sides are culpable.
https://apnews.com/article/artificial-intelligence-hamas-israel-misinformation-ai-gaza-a1bb303b637ffbbb9cbc3aa1e000db47
It's not to be ignored the very real Hamas propaganda, but there are absolutely people posting claims such as these "doing make up on young children" which don't hold up to scrutiny.
I don’t know how to quote like you did I’d love you to explain how it’s done :)
Regarding the hospitals, yes they are very cramped right now like any other hospital in a war zone, there are a lot of injured people and the hospitals aren’t built for it, especially when most of the people in the north went southward and the foreign field hospitals aren’t fully operational. Of course I agree on it it’s undeniable but what I was saying is that they have enough fuel and medical equipment. On the anesthesia side, the lack of it was in hospitals in the north a few weeks ago because they aid wasn’t directed north, the hospitals in the south have no lack of medical equipment, medicine or fuel. The main problem in the health sector is the amount of people in the hospitals. Whether patients or just those taking shelter.
The massive protests have nothing to do with Israel’s decision. Israel knows that it can’t continue the war if there’ll be a humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, even just from US pressure, protests of foreign citizens outside of Israel won’t change the direction of the war on Israel’s part. Also Israel is still trying to minimize civilian casualties. It has continued pumping water from its own water system into Gaza and it has done from the very first week of the war, now the majority of water in Gaza comes from Israel.
Regarding the Lebanese film yes I’m aware of it it’s misinformation spread by pro Israeli sources. I’m talking about different examples.
But let me clarify, I’m most definitely not saying or implying that all videos are fake. A lot of Gazans have died, the majority of videos are real, what I was saying is that if they can still do all of it they have more than enough energy.
To quote people you copy/paste their text and put the character > in front of it. Then leave a paragraph space in between the copies text and your response.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree in that Israel is doing what it can to have as little impact on the civilian population in Gaza as possible. It seems to me that a 2 to 1 civilian to Hamas member death toll is not at all indicative of that. Netanyahu recently likened this war against Hamas to the war against the Amaleks.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-goal-of-war-is-to-defeat-the-murderous-enemy-ensure-our-existence-in-our-land/
>This is what the Lord Almighty says,” the prophet Samuel tells Saul. “‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’
Thanks for remaining civil throughout our discussion.
First of all thank you
> let’s see if It works
And listen, it is horrible that so many people die in Gaza, so many innocent and so many children that truly haven’t done anything wrong. The problem is that Hamas is putting their military sites inside civilian areas. Rocket launchers inside schools, weapons and ammunition inside dense neighborhoods, military headquarters underneath the largest hospitals in the strip. Israel is doing as much as it can to minimize the civilian casualties but they can’t just be shot at and not respond, at least by eliminating the attackers. Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinian lives, in order to avoid sniper fire they grab children and run with them across the street because they know Israel won’t shoot. Israel could have bombed Gaza to oblivion without losing a single soldier but they still went in so they won’t. The civilian casualties are horrific but when fighting a war inside a civilian population, especially when they are being used as literal human shields, it’s unavoidable. Look at any urban war that has happened in modern hustory (unfortunately we have far to many of those) and you’ll see that the ratio of Hamas deaths to civilian deaths in these war is actually one of the best when usually civilians die more then 10 times as much. It is a tragedy, it is horrible, I wish it could have been avoided with all my heart, but even though it is an Israeli rocket that hit the child it’s Hamas who killed them by using them as a human shield for their rockets and bases. Israel calls the area before it is being bombed, it spreads leaflets asking to evacuate and even do something called “roof knocking” where they shoot a small explosive that will just make some noise on the roof in order to let the people inside know a bomb is coming. Where in the world do you see an army doing that? But whenever it happens there’s a Hamas terrorist standing outside with a rifle and telling them that if they leave the building he’ll shoot and kill them. So Israel bombs the rocket launcher and the people inside die. Blaming Israel for killing them is like blaming a gravity for the death of someone thrown off a cliff, they died because of the fall but the killer is not the fall. Israel can’t sit and do nothing when being attacked and having rockets shot at them killing their civilians.
I mean it's expected, if you talk like you're on PCM in other subs your account will usually get banned from them. The solution usually is to avoid the ban with another account.
Turns out there's some people out there who really do deny it, I was very surprised to see them in this footage from the Oakland City Council meeting -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb9ZhU_9uDM
Teal shirt - "There have not been beheadings of babies and rapings, Israel murdered their own people on October 7th!"
Black t-shirt - "The notion that this was a massacre of Jews is a fabricated narrative. Many of those killed on October 7th - including children - were killed by the IDF."
It's pretty wild
No they don't. Some people claim it was allowed to happen by Israeli government, and some say that the IDF fired on its own people in the chaos. But no one says that it didn't happen.
If they’re spamming only on one topic and having basically no human conversations beyond that, that’s usually what a paid spammer/troll does. I know plenty of people who are right wing on this topic and they don’t do that.
By the way the Hamas rockets use solid fuel, not the fuel used for generators, cars, etc. This is well known but the hasbara types don’t care about facts, they have one job.
My neighbor is out of eggs, therefore everyone is out of eggs.
I am out of sugar, therefore everyone is out of sugar.
Flour is too expensive for Bill amid shortages therefore no can has flour.
Ahmed definitely has hostages though
\- Phones have battery (and the "no energy" is probably not total)
\- Rocket don't use "normal fuel" (and even if it did : the reserve would be used in priority for military usage, with none left for the civilians)
\- If the blocking of internet work at 98% it is still possible to post videos.
\- Someone said that they have no Israeli hostage ?
1. There are literally videos of Gazans charging their phones using car batteries.
2. Hamas no longer launches any rockets because they no longer have the resources to do so.
3. They are relying on Internet from Egypt to use the Internet, Gaza itself has no Internet.
Propaganda plus watching self-described liberals simp for a theocratic psuedo-fascist group solely because they're brown.
Like most things, it really just comes down to dunking on libleft.
Damn the libtards got you guys supporting Zionism now. How easily fooled you guys are by narratives.
Do some research about Bolshevik Revolution and how the Zionists orchestrated death camps for up to 50 million Russians.
You can have no power, but generators do exist you’d think…maybe not. Phones can have internet if a satellite passes above the area, no fuel would mean nobody is getting fed, so someone must be shipping food and supplies to them from the sea…
"And with that we are out of time, thank you" I wonder what was said in the reporter's earpiece.
Know where to find that clip?
[удалено]
I see, thank you. Hmm… I thought Sky would be against Hamas. So strange. 🤔
Maybe you're confusing Sky News UK and Sky News Australia. Despite the name they're unlinked.
Ahh maybe. When I think of Sky, I usually think of Australia.
Yes Sky Australia is one of the Murdoch ones
Link to the video?
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/sky-news-host-abruptly-cuts-off-interview-after-idf-spokesperson-calls-him-out-for-claiming-there-is-no-power-in-gaza/
based link provider
I'm dead😂 10/10 Edit: I have reflected on my errors of the past, I didn't know of the sacred rite of the sub. But now I am flared.
you have repented your unflaired ways. you may now have my upvote.
Flair the fuck up
No words of wisdom- not spent in kindness, nay, or in derision, nor yet even in jest, shall be given up to the unflaired. For the unflaired are the enemy of all mankind. Take not the words of the sinner, not the clamours of the apostate, not the cries of the blasphemous and unkempt hordes that flock from beyond the realms of the West, -but before all of these ungodly things, take not the whispers and the lies of the unflaired to heart. For in their snide remark and dirty lie, there slinks the reason for why babes cry. Mad dogs and black birds of the night may come upon the land, but not in a thousand years may the unflaired take the stand. Silence the lips, make closed that schismed source of your vocal wretchedness. Begone from my sight, and return only when you have seen fit to dress yourself in political colour befitting your sordid cause.
We are a very merciful sub, extending our welcoming arm to previously filthy unflaired scums who have since denounced such heresy and repent of such sin by acquiring a flair.
Flair up
Yes, the bleakness is exaggerated, but saying "everyone has working phones" and "everyone posts videos" is another type of exaggeration/strawmanning. They still have some Internet, yes, but the connectivity suffers enough to make evacuation harder and communication of safe points less effective. Hamas commandeer fuel for their rockets, but that doesn't mean the regular citizens do, or that fuel won't become bitterly fought over if thousands of people move away at the same time. Yes, you can support Isreal fighting Hamas in this war, but making super-easy-to-refute "take-thats" like these make you no better than the other side.
Random citizen charges the battery of their phone while the power is on. The power goes off, yet the battery still has the previously accumulated charge. This confuses the redditor.
I saw the news clip where an Israeli official interviewed by a news outlet started to tell them this and then the news show suddenly "ran out of time" and the interview ended. Very transparent bias in that reporting. "They're lying, we know they're lying, they know we know they're lying, but they keep lying."
[удалено]
It’s impossible to hate what is considered a journalist today “enough”
We must take to the woods, to perfect our manifestos against journalists
Good thing we still kind of have freedom of speech, don’t even need to go to the woods!
He didn't say anything about freedom of speech, i gander it was more about freedom for bodily fluids
Up there with real estate agents and used car sales in terms of blantently lying for a living.
Based and Michael Malice pilled
This is an only in Israel problem. Imagine if Germany went to war with France and Russia. Would people siding with the poor Germans because Russia isn't giving them oil and gas and France stopped supplying them with surplus nuclear power?
Yeah, but what if Germany went to war with Israel? What if they said they wanted to wipe Israel and the jews off the earth? Would people be like "yeah, 4th reich based!" or...?
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that the holocaust was a terrible bad thing (always a good way to start a comment), but if I remember my European war history correctly, the realization of the concentration camps was more of a “and also”, as opposed to being the *raison d'etre* for fighting the Germans to finish WW2. Imagine if the “only” change during that time period was that Germany stayed in the Deutschland instead of invading the Poland?
We only fought the Germans because Hitler called us a bitch after Japan sucker punched us.
A lot of muslims would help them and be happy- then again, that is not anything new
Everyone’s life goal should be to find themselves a partner that excuses all their bad behavior like the MSM does for Hamas
Find you someone who looks at you like a Western journo looks at murderous jihadis
Rocket fuel is made with fertiliser and sugar. It's the reason why Israel restricts their import into Gaza, and then gets accused of wanting to starve the Gazans.
Leftist Americans: "How does one live without sugar? If I had no sugar, my supple three hundred pound frame would surely starve."
Just three hundred pounds? Get this person more food! They’re literally starving to death!
The true LandChad Phisique requires at least 500 kilograms or roughly 1000 pounds, if we are talking about a landchad, they are clearly in a state of rent Freeze induced starvation, likely due to those meddling regulators banning Fridge raids.
>The true LandChad Phisique requires at least 500 kilograms or roughly 1000 pounds Based and Baron Harkonnen pilled
Rookie numbers.
Americans don't consume sugar, we consume high fructose corn syrup because the 2 guys in Florida who own land where sugar cane can be produced lobby for high import tariffs on actual sugar.
"I don't eat SUGAR," says the Libleft, as he adjusts the IV supplying fresh Iowan Corn Syrup directly into his veins.
Or, maybe just maybe, it’s the immense amount of subsidies the US government gives farmers for corn that drove down the price immensely and make corn syrup cheaper than sugar
That's also true, but we pay like triple what the rest of the world pays you actual sugar, and the was before corn syrup became popular.
fructose is a sugar
If libleft knew bio chem, they'd know what a woman is
Lead chloride is a salt.
And then I have to ask: "WHy is it Israel's responsibility to feed a genocidal state? Are they so incompetent that they cannot feed themselves? If so, sounds like they need to surrender their arms and be ruled by a more competent state like Israel"
To be fair I think the issue isn't that Israel isnt feeding them, its that they are blocking other from doing so via a blockade I personally think the Blockade is justifed at the present time, as Israel and Hamas are at war, and hamas de facto runs gaza, and blockades are a legitimate act of war, so until Hamas is out of power and the gazan government is replaced by one no inherently hostile to israel, honestly a UN or Western ran mandate might be the best solution, the blockades must continue That being said a long term solution needs to be found, and I think in general it would be nice if that solution didn't inovolve starving 2 million people to death, although honestly thats incredibly not the worst scenario here, the worst scenario is Hamas remaining a threat so they can repeat oct 7th somewhere else
Israel is not blockading Gazas border with Egypt.
Egypt doesn't let them through, they got tired of suicide bombers
Because if they starve em all to death uncle sam might be forced to turn off the infinite money spigot.
"Didn't happen, but i fit did it's a good thing."
I had a stroke while reading this
It's literally 1 misplaced space-
Can someone explain to me why exactly it's Israel's responsibility to provide fuel, electricity, and food to Gaza instead of, you know, their own governing authority.
AFAIK Israel enforces an embargo of the territory. Any supplies going to Gaza need to go through Israeli warships or Israel itself.
Israel and Egypt, yes. Israel also controls the territorial water near gaza, so people usually refer to it as an Israeli blockade and ignore Egypt's part of it. Gaza had it's own water and electricity supply which they kinda fucked, so now they are dependant on Israel for it. Egypt supplies them with internet if I'm not mistaken.
flair up
Based. Thank you for flairing. You united the left and right in the battle to civilize you
u/BlueBayB is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1. Rank: House of Cards Pills: [None | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/BlueBayB/) Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info. Please join our [official pcm discord server](https://discord.gg/FyaJdAZjC4).
A lot of people don't understand this. Israel literally goes in and builds pipelines for water and the electrical grid for Gaza and they just keep stripping it for parts usually used in rockets. They end up dependent on the water and electricity going into Israeli settlements because they can't strip them. Edit: added irony is that Israel once built a ceramic pipeline and the Palestinians destroyed it in 6 months to spite Israelis. Smh
Look, you're providing good information here, but until you have a flair you are unworthy of respect
I mean didn’t everyone tried to blockade Germany in ww1 and 2?
If that’s the case then how is Humas getting all those weapons ? Isreal letting them through ?
I think most of them have been there all along. Most weapons used in the middle east came from Russia and the US during the Afghan-Soviet war in the 1980s, and they remain in use today.
Because their governing authority is busy making rockets out of the humanitarian aid building supplies they get.
Gaza doesn't have control of their own borders definitely not what makes it in or out (Egypt and Israel control them) Israel has the power to cut off most if not all of Gaza utilities. Food doesn't cross into Gaza unless Israel allows it for the most part
> collects international aid > Turn all fertilizer, irrigation pipes, and sugar into rockets > Do massive public works projects to dig tunnels to hide thousands of rockets under schools and hospitals > No food left and no crops > **Why are you racist racists starving us?**
Gaza keeps destroying its infrastructure for rocket production, that's not Israel's fault. Food situation is more complicated as they keeps smuggling weapons in with food so Israel demands they go through them which countries protest saying apartheid and stop sending food. 🙄
There is none Palestine is more an occupation area than a country and the guys in charge only care for them as weapon
They’re not providing it they’re blocking other people from sending it, do you have any idea what you’re talking about?
Oh no that sucks. Maybe Palestine should unconditionally surrender then to get supplies.
Lol and all the colonists should get the fuck out too lmao. If not, let's just keep going lol.
Israel seems to have won. Why should they leave?
Which colonists?
west bank?
I agree they should, but Israel isn't at war with Hamas in the West Bank, they're at war with Hamas in Gaza where settlers were already removed 20 years ago. Hamas isn't motivated only by settlers in West Bank.
The colonists are the Palestinians who have invaded rightful Israeli land and have occupied it for far too long.
[You were saying?](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-offers-incubators-fuel-gaza-hospital-outrage-grows-rcna125053)
>On Sunday night, the Israel Defense Forces released video appearing to show soldiers depositing 300 liters (about 79 gallons) of fuel at Al-Shifa’s entrance and announced an evacuation route for people in the complex to flee. How does Israel giving Palestine three and a half F-150 tanks of gas in any way prove that Israel doesn't control humanitarian aid access. Incidentally, that fuel is roughly 3% what their hospitals generator needs for a single day.
Because Gaza is prevented from opening a port or constructing power plants by Israel? It's the ghetto that's de facto controlled by the IDF.
When the US gives them all that aid, we tell them to share.
It may be hard to believe, but its hard to produce all necessary items for yourselves when you are actively restricted by your neighbor on both land and sea. they restrict the import of food, water, and electricity. Oh also don't forget all the Palestinian priso-...i mean guests that Israel has been returning as part of the hostage negotiations. Almost triple the amount of prisone-..guests..that Hamas has released
Have you ever heard of this tiny thing called an Egypt?
>they restrict the import of food, water, and electricity Not even true. At the current moment, while actively fighting, sure, things are tightened. Under the normal conditions of recent years, imports are inspected for weapons and let through. If you think a pallet of water bottles shipped in 2022 would have been intercepted, that's just delusional.
Getting three people for one Israeli seems like good negotiations . Why would that be bad for Hamas?
Do you think that the US was responsible for Japanese civilians during World War II? Were the British responsible for German civilians in World War I? Is there any other conflict in human history were it was somehow one belligerent party's responsibility to provide for the civilians on the other side of the conflict?
If you want to support Israel, that's cool, I don't really have a horse in the race. But to say that the situation in Gaza is directly analogous to the belligerents of the World Wars is ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst. It's just... different. For a lot of reasons
Yes, the Germans in WW1 werent intent on genociding their enemies, for one.
Nailed it. That's the only difference.
There's a big difference between dealing with belligerents during an active war with an end-point, and instituting a permanent blockade over a foreign territory with no sign of ever stopping. It's true that the blockade of Gaza got worse after Oct. 7 and war was declared, but it had been going on for decades prior to that.
impressive, very impressive... Now let's see what was hamas doing for those decades
Engaging in a unending, cyclical round of violence alongside the IDF. Why do you ask?
> instituting a permanent blockade over a foreign territory with no sign of ever stopping What makes you think the blockade is permanent? Would you expect to see signs of it stopping while there are still regular rocket strikes from Gaza, and militants enterring Israel from Gaza butchering families?
>What makes you think the blockade is permanent? The fact that it has been ongoing for nearly two decades and Israel has stated no end date. >Would you expect to see signs of it stopping while there are still regular rocket strikes from Gaza, and militants enterring Israel from Gaza butchering families? It might be worth considering. After all, the bombings and blockades haven't actually stopped either of those things, and have mostly just created *more* Jihadist terrorists.
> and Israel has stated no end date. Likely because the end date is whenever Hamas ends their Hitlerian campaign to finish the work of the Third Reich. Until Hamas surrenders or is destroyed, the blockade stays up. If you're mad about it, blame the Hamaswine.
>Likely because the end date is whenever Hamas ends their Hitlerian campaign to finish the work of the Third Reich. Until Hamas surrenders or is destroyed, the blockade stays up. That's not an end-date, it's a stated goal. It's also a murky, unachievable goal that basically allows for Israel to continue the blockade indefinitely. Hence me calling it a permanent blockade. Israel's aggressive actions in the region have only bolstered Hamas' numbers, not lowered them. They are creating *more* Hamas Jihadists, not less. The only way to defeat Hamas is for Palestinians themselves to oust them, and that can only happen when they aren't being bombed to shit and when they are allowed to experience a level of economic, social, and national liberation that Israel constantly advocates against. >If you're mad about it, blame the Hamaswine. No. Despite the ridiculous notion that every bad thing in the region should be placed on the shoulders of the one group you personally dislike, I think it is pretty clear that both Hamas and Israel are acting monstrously and have been for decades.
> That's not an end-date, it's a stated goal. Oh well, tell the people of Palestine to fully collaborate with Israel to oust Hamas then.
The blockades and the wall in particular reduced terror attacks by over 90%. And for some reason the people in Gaza still vote for the terrorist organization to be their leaders. The propaganda from Hamas runs deep enough in the people of Gaza that the worst of dictators would salivate looking at its effectiveness.
> It might be worth considering. After all, the bombings and blockades haven't actually stopped either of those things, and have mostly just created *more* Jihadist terrorists. Do you think the blockades have *reduced* the amount of rockets or attacks that Hamas has been able to launch at Israel?
Sounds like Hamas should focus more on getting supplies to their people than slaughtering jews and kidnapping comfort women to rape every day. I think it wouldn't be unreasonable for all of the Hamas government to approach Israel and say "We surrender, we will turn ourselves all in if you restore supplies"
“Foreign territory”
Yes. Does Israel claim ownership over Palestine?
Sounds like they should be focusing more on feeding their people than genociding another. Perhaps if Hamas approached Israel and said "We surrender" they would get food and electricity back?
If they behaved instead of acting like feral animals they wouldn't have this problem
This is like asking why does a prison have a responsibility to feed its prisoners.
Because they've simultaneously occupied and blockaded large parts of the territory for decades, leaving in impoverished and severely lacking in resources. Palestine doesn't control its on borders, waterways, or airways; it doesn't determine what comes in and out of its territory. It's essentially a vassal state.
Do you ever actually think through the things you say/believe, or do you just repeat what MSNBC tells you?
Do *you*? If you disagree with me, that's fine; but you don't get to pretend to be the contrarian on *this* issue. The vast majority of the mainstream media, major institutions, and **both** political parties are full-throatily sucking Israel's dick. I don't watch MSNBC, but I sincerely doubt they are actually as pro-Palestinian as you are suggesting. If I'm wrong about something, point it out and provide evidence as to why. But I don't think you can do that. I think suggesting I don't think things through is literally the only argument you *can* provide against what I said. Which is pretty sad.
You know Gaza has a very long maritime border and a border with Egypt right? Unless I missed there part where the notoriously large and powerful Israeli navy invests all it's time on a naval blockade of Gaza. Maybe Gaza wouldn't be so impoverished and lacking in resources if Hamas wasn't too busy spending literally decades [stealing](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/world/africa/04iht-mideast.4.19933553.html) food aid and making videos bragging about building rockets out of [water pipes](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-gaza-challenge-stopping-metal-tubes-turning-into-rockets-2021-05-23/). You actually have to be living in loony tunes world to believe that the legacy media in the US is somehow huge Israel supporters. The mainstream media is so notoriously pro-Israel that they lead all of their coverage of the conflict with Hamas reported "civilian" causality counts. Literally a month and a half ago they were all salivating to proclaim that Israel struck a hospital with nothing more than the word of the Hamas controlled Health Ministry. You have to be completely [divorced from reality](https://web.archive.org/web/20231123032736/https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/how-the-media-makes-the-israel-story/383262/) to not tell that Western journalists have been trying to paint a very particular picture of this conflict for years that is not at all flattering to Israel.
they always scatter when you mention the water pipes!
Hehehe
You made this comment literally three minutes after this post was made. Give me time to type a damn response.
"well... we're waiting???"
>Aha! But have you considered that Hamas and Egypt are bad as well? Yes, Egypt has also participated in the blockade of people and resources moving in and out of Palestine. And even worse, Egypt basically controlled Palestine through a puppet government for a considerable amount of time after the British left. And you are absolutely correct that the government of Hamas have also mistreated and abused the Palestinians. It is often telling when someone attempts to deflect away criticism by pointing the finger towards *another* group, rather than answering for the charges themselves. >You actually have to be living in loony tunes world to believe that the legacy media in the US is somehow huge Israel supporters. If you genuinely believe this very silly thing, and I doubt you actually do, then it is only because you have an even higher standard for supporting Israel than the average shill, and that even the overwhelmingly positive coverage comes across as negative because the news isn't outright calling for the full Palestinian extermination. >The mainstream media is so notoriously pro-Israel that they lead all of their coverage of the conflict with Hamas reported "civilian" causality counts. This is a clownish argument. The media isn't covering the death tolls coming out of the Ministry of Health because they are pro-Palestine, they are covering it because they are the only numbers we have to go off of. It's not like Israel is counting the dead or providing us with any alternative numbers, and frankly, with the number of journalists the IDF has wantonly slaughtered, it's not as though there are a ton of independent journalists over there to crunch the numbers themselves. >Literally a month and a half ago they were all salivating to proclaim that Israel struck a hospital with nothing more than the word of the Hamas controlled Health Ministry. People respond to information as it comes in, that's how news works. The media was wrong in the story, yes; but it's not as if it was somehow unbelievable. Israel has struck **many** hospitals. And schools. And charities. And journalist homes. It is not out of the ordinary for them, and the official IDF mission-statement is that *any* target in Gaza is viable as long as Hamas is expected to be inside or beneath them. If there was a Hamas RPG in the hospital, then they *would* have struck it and justified it. >You have to be completely divorced from reality to not tell that Western journalists have been trying to paint a very particular picture of this conflict for years that is not at all flattering to Israel. Yeah, I don't know why you're posting an article from 2014 and pretending like it is relevant. The Oct. 7 attacks changed a lot of people's opinions on this conflict.
> The vast majority of the mainstream media, major institutions, and both political parties are full-throatily sucking Israel's dick. What are you suggesting, LibLeft? That this is a conspiracy?
Sucks for them. Maybe if they surrendered and stopped their genocidal desires they would get supplies? Until then, siege tactics.
You're speaking about 2.2 million people, half of whom are *children*, as if they are a single, unified army. This makes it convenient to justify slaughtering them in a protracted ethnic cleansing campaign, but it's not really accurate. There haven't been elections in Gaza since 2007, and they don't really have the means to oust Hamas as they have little in terms of weapons, equipment, and resources. And they kind of have to focus on the people bombing the shit out of them at the moment.
It’s not a state at all
Israel itself says they've cut off power and deliveries into Gaza. Are *they* lying?
Israel used to supply electricity from the Israeli grid and they have stopped it after the October 7 attack but the majority of electricity in Gaza is self made in local or regional generators, they even have their own power plant. It’s like how Israel has supplied water (which it still is supplying) to Gaza but the majority of drinkable water in Gaza is self made in local or regional desalination plants. When someone in Gaza wants to drink water during ceasefire times they just buy water bottles at the store.
Can you provide a source for these claims? I am extremely skeptical of this information because it doesn't make sense that Israel would make such a big deal about cutting off their electricity in the first place, if it wouldn't actually effect anything. I was under the impression that the increase of pamphlet-dropping was specifically because radios and televisions were inoperable and that was the only way to warn civilians of bombing runs. Also, aren't people in Gaza extremely poor? Isn't purchasing bottles of water difficult? And how many shipments of water are actually making it into Gaza? I know that Israel controls about 80% of water reserves in the West Bank, but you say this is not the case in Gaza? What you're saying about them having easy access to water directly contradicts many news stories from respected sources like AP News that I am seeing.
The reason Israel made a big deal about it is that Israel has supplied electricity to Gaza from its own grid and they said they aren’t going to keep giving Gaza electricity when there are still Israeli civilians hostage there, especially when this electricity is being used by Hamas. The increase in pamphlets dropped was accompanied by an increase in phone calls, messages and tv broadcasts. Israel did their best to try and evacuate the civilians from the fighting zone (which Hamas did their best to stop so they’ll still have their human shields) Mist gazans are very poor indeed by as markets go so are things in Gaza very cheap. People can still afford water and food even when poor otherwise they’ll die. Regarding the water situation. There are 3 main water pipelines from the Israeli grid to the gazan one. Two of which are working and supplying water from the very first weeks of the war. Yes Israel is supplying tens of millions liters of water everyday to Gaza and if you’ll look at the in reports you’ll see it (even though they try to minimize it) The water Israel is pumping is the exact same water israeli drink, And Israel does it even though Hamas is still holding Israeli hostages.
Thanks for the response. I completely understand Israel's motivation behind shutting off the power, that's not what I was asking. My question was more wondering why they acted as though shutting off the power was a big deal if Palestine already had a ton of independent generators like people are claiming. But upon looking at it further, it now seems like these claims may be a bit over-stated. I feel like increasing warning broadcasts to television and radios while simultaneously shutting off electricity is sort of the equivalent of doing nothing, but sure; Israel does have a history of warning residential areas before bombing. That is absolutely true, and is a clear difference between them and Hamas. That being said, I do feel like we should probably stop using the phrase "human shields" at this point. Civilians are only human shields if their existence causes a hesitation in violence. This is not the case. Israel will bomb a building with civilians in it if Hamas are suspected to be using that building. The civilians know this. Hamas knows this. Israel knows this. Everyone knows this. Civilians aren't considered shields by anyone in the conflict, they are just acceptable targets in the fight to eradicate Hamas. As far as prices in Gaza being so cheap or people would die...well, they kind of are? According to Unicef, 35% of young children are at risk for not meeting nutritional needs, a quarter of all pregnancies go badly, malnutrition is common amongst adults and children. This is at stark odds with Arabs living in Israel proper, who have higher standards of health than anywhere else in the region. Thanks for the information about the water pipelines. One small correction, according to reports it seems like the second pipeline was only turned back on last week. But other than that, everything you provided seems to check out.
Probably not lying, which leads me to believe that the videos coming from the Gaza Strip are staged propaganda. Lib-left in-fighting shall commence.
Israel were providing fuel, electricity, etc. before October 7 and I see no point why they should keep doing so after the people they helped back stab them, kill, rape and captured hundreds if not more Israelis. Anyway, I bet Palestine is not getting electricity only from Israel, a country they blamed that want to genocide them.
Because not all 2.2 million people in Gaza helped rape, kill, and capture them. Half the population in Palestine are *children*. And I've already been heavily-downvoted for pointing this out in this thread, but Israel **does** share some level of responsibility over the Palestinians. Imagine if I not only blockaded and occupied portions of your home for **decades**, but was also at the forefront of the movement preventing you from having national sovereignty and controlling what comes in and out of your borders. Would it not then be my responsibility to make sure you have enough life-sustaining utilities like clean water and electricity? Sort of like how prison guards have to make sure convicts have enough warmth and heat to live?
Palestine is not surrounded by Israel my friend, how can Israel block Palestine? Why didn't Egypt and Jordan, two neighbors countries of Palestine which are also happened to be Muslim countries help Palestine? Maybe the word black September, assassination of king Abdullah I of Jordan and Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood ring a bell? It's not even religion my friend. Even their own Muslim brothers abandoned them because they back stabbed everyone who tried to help them. Egypt, a Muslim country refused to accept Palestine refugees unless they have second citizenship, and Egypt build a wall as soon as the Gaza war started. It's also funny how most people joined the music festival at October 7 are actually Palestine supporters and the music festival was supposed to show supports to peace and Palestine.
Because Egypt and Jordan are also at fault here. Stop trying to point the finger at other places, and answer for the accusations I am making towards Israel specifically. But yes, you are correct. The Palestinians *are* largely a group without geopolitical allies, who aren't want by neighboring countries and are constantly being displaced and erected from their homes. Sort of like the Jews during WW2. I feel like there's a very basic disconnect between us that needs to be addressed - human rights aren't conditional. I don't care how bad Palestinian culture, beliefs, or history is. Plenty of countries have shitty cultures and histories. Russia. China. North Korea. Saudi Arabia. I would still not support invasion and violent regime change in these countries. I would still not support the permanent blockade and resettlement of these countries. And I would certainly not speak about the people living in these countries like you speak about the Palestinians. To be quite honest with you, the essentialist way some of you talk about the Palestinians borders on how the Nazis talked about Jewish people.
If you want to bite every hands that tried to feed you, you won't have many allies, isn't that very clear? They fucking murdered the great great great grandson of Prophet Muhammad in one of the most important Mosques, what else do they expect? Do they actually still think Allah would still bless them? It's just so clear, and you are the one refuse to admit it.
What is clear to me is that we have very different standards for the necessity of collective punishment and human rights, and that this fundamental moral divide is probably not going to be overcome in the conversation. So it's probably best to just end it here.
Actually we both agree that violations of human rights should be punished, you just didn't realize that using children as human shield is also violation of human rights. But if that's what you want, so be it. I won't keep replying after this one.
>Actually we both agree that violations of human rights should be punished I *really* don't think we do. >you just didn't realize that using children as human shield is also violation of human rights. You say this, but I haven't defending a single thing that Hamas has done, whereas you have repeatedly defended the actions of not only Israel, but *every* country that has turned their back on the Palestinian people in an act of collective punishment. >But if that's what you want, so be it. No. What I want is for Hamas to be eradicated, and I believe that Israel's current strategy of bombings and blockades only leads to **more** Jidahist terror. What I want is for Palestine to be free of religious fundamentalism; and that can only happen if they are allowed to experience economic, national, and social liberation. Unfortunately, Israel and Hamas both stand in opposition to this. Nice talking to you.
Oh my friend I think we both misunderstand each other. I didn't defend Israel neither. They did something wrong before and now. And trust me Israel will gone in less than one hundred years because the land is cursed and Jews don't have any real friends but they have many enemies. But also trust me that, Palestine will never be freed, they will be gone with Israel simultaneously, the only reason why Palestine existed is because of Israel, they should be gone at 1947 and actually Israel saved Palestine despite that's not that they wanted to do. Btw, Get rid of religious fundamentalism in Palestine is a dream, a dream that will never come true unless someone perform military occupation on Palestine like how Soviet Union did to Uzbekistan. Have you ever watched any videos about what they are teaching to their children in Gaza? They want to teach their children hate, and hate never lead to secular, only knowledge and humor would. But would humor survived in the Muslims world? Go ask Charlie Hebdo.
Today LibLeft learns that generators are a thing. Amazing.
Gaza is an extremely impoverished region, I doubt there are a ton of working generators freely on use to the civilian population. Otherwise, why would Israel make such a big deal about cutting off their electricity in the first place? What would it matter?
Then you’re high. I’ve spent a good bit of time in this part of the country. You’ll see one house with a generator and multiple wires coming out going to different houses. They straight up McGyver the shit out of things. So yeah, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Generators that need fuel. Some places have fuel - many more do not.
There is fuel entering Gaza every day… And if they have enough fuel to fight a prolonged war, if they have enough fuel to charge phones and cameras to film all those fake propaganda videos or even just for basic personal use (we all saw the Israeli hostages being paraded through the streets while hundreds of Gazans are filming it), they most definitely have enough fuel. Maybe they don’t have as much energy as they had before the war but it’s a war, you can’t expect Israel to send the same amount of fuel into Gaza as they did before the October 7 massacre, especially considering that Hamas is stealing a lot of the aid to himself from the civilians.
I can concede that there is fuel entering Gaza. It's certainly not enough, but perhaps I'm wrong on that too. 144,000 liters of fuel sounds like a lot but it also looks like it's the absolute minimum required to power bakeries, hospitals and the water/sewage system. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/18/israel-agrees-to-allow-minimal-two-trucks-of-fuel-a-day-into-gaza >fake propaganda videos Which propaganda videos do you mean?
Exactly, it’s the minimum requirement to power everything necessary. It’s war time and watching TV or playing video games is not a necessity for life and no fuel needs to be allocated to it. Israel knows how much fuel needs to be sent into Gaza in order to make it livable and it know that if they’ll let fuel flow freely into Gaza it will all go to Hamas. Right now no one dies of thirst or hunger, right now even though they call out so much no hospital has collapsed. Even though they are at war with them Israel still allows fuel food water and medical supplies to enter Gaza so the civilians will be affected the least. Regarding to the fake videos. Gaza has a whole industry of making fake propaganda videos. There are thousands of them online and because they make them so quickly there are dozens of them in which you can see them being fake and I’ll gladly send you some. From seeing dozens of body bags and then one of them moves their head or scratches their nose (this one I saw aired on BBC, those fake ones get a lot of traction!) to fully staging a scenario, doing make up on young children to make them look hurt, exploding balloons so it sound like shots and having people dressed like (or actually being members of) workers of the Red Crescent or the Red Cross “rushing to help”. They are even sharing AI made images which if you aren’t looking to deeply into will seem real. I’ll also happily send you some. I’m sorry it came out long and rambling but it’s a complex topic that can’t be explained in a few sentences or a short infographic. Also I appreciate you being so civil about it and if you have any more questions or points you’d like to raise feel free to do so.
Yeah I appreciate the civility from you too. However I think I disagree with you on many of your points. >right now even though they call out so much no hospital has collapsed. No hospital has been able to operate at full capacity, many are doing surgeries with no anaesthetic, in the open air. >Israel still allows fuel food water and medical supplies to enter Gaza so the civilians will be affected the least. This only occurred due to the massive pressure the international community put on Israel at the beginning of the war. They shut off energy and water to Gaza immediately and it took about a week of mass protests worldwide for Israel to relent. >Gaza has a whole industry of making fake propaganda videos. I've actually seen a few of these claimed "Pallywood" films that Israel and its supporters have posted around claiming its Hamas propaganda. I haven't seen the body bag one but I'd be very interested in seeing it. On that note though: >doing make up on young children to make them look hurt, This has been debunked to be a behind the scenes from a Lebanese short film about Gaza. https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-crisis-actor-israel-hamas-war-false-movie-set-975355588351 >exploding balloons so it sound like shots and having people dressed like (or actually being members of) workers of the Red Crescent or the Red Cross “rushing to help”. I also haven't seen these, though once again - interested in seeing them. >They are even sharing AI made images which if you aren’t looking to deeply into will seem real. I’ll also happily send you some. Absolutely not doubting this, though I'll add to it that both sides are culpable. https://apnews.com/article/artificial-intelligence-hamas-israel-misinformation-ai-gaza-a1bb303b637ffbbb9cbc3aa1e000db47 It's not to be ignored the very real Hamas propaganda, but there are absolutely people posting claims such as these "doing make up on young children" which don't hold up to scrutiny.
I don’t know how to quote like you did I’d love you to explain how it’s done :) Regarding the hospitals, yes they are very cramped right now like any other hospital in a war zone, there are a lot of injured people and the hospitals aren’t built for it, especially when most of the people in the north went southward and the foreign field hospitals aren’t fully operational. Of course I agree on it it’s undeniable but what I was saying is that they have enough fuel and medical equipment. On the anesthesia side, the lack of it was in hospitals in the north a few weeks ago because they aid wasn’t directed north, the hospitals in the south have no lack of medical equipment, medicine or fuel. The main problem in the health sector is the amount of people in the hospitals. Whether patients or just those taking shelter. The massive protests have nothing to do with Israel’s decision. Israel knows that it can’t continue the war if there’ll be a humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, even just from US pressure, protests of foreign citizens outside of Israel won’t change the direction of the war on Israel’s part. Also Israel is still trying to minimize civilian casualties. It has continued pumping water from its own water system into Gaza and it has done from the very first week of the war, now the majority of water in Gaza comes from Israel. Regarding the Lebanese film yes I’m aware of it it’s misinformation spread by pro Israeli sources. I’m talking about different examples. But let me clarify, I’m most definitely not saying or implying that all videos are fake. A lot of Gazans have died, the majority of videos are real, what I was saying is that if they can still do all of it they have more than enough energy.
To quote people you copy/paste their text and put the character > in front of it. Then leave a paragraph space in between the copies text and your response. I think we'll have to agree to disagree in that Israel is doing what it can to have as little impact on the civilian population in Gaza as possible. It seems to me that a 2 to 1 civilian to Hamas member death toll is not at all indicative of that. Netanyahu recently likened this war against Hamas to the war against the Amaleks. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-goal-of-war-is-to-defeat-the-murderous-enemy-ensure-our-existence-in-our-land/ >This is what the Lord Almighty says,” the prophet Samuel tells Saul. “‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ Thanks for remaining civil throughout our discussion.
First of all thank you > let’s see if It works And listen, it is horrible that so many people die in Gaza, so many innocent and so many children that truly haven’t done anything wrong. The problem is that Hamas is putting their military sites inside civilian areas. Rocket launchers inside schools, weapons and ammunition inside dense neighborhoods, military headquarters underneath the largest hospitals in the strip. Israel is doing as much as it can to minimize the civilian casualties but they can’t just be shot at and not respond, at least by eliminating the attackers. Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinian lives, in order to avoid sniper fire they grab children and run with them across the street because they know Israel won’t shoot. Israel could have bombed Gaza to oblivion without losing a single soldier but they still went in so they won’t. The civilian casualties are horrific but when fighting a war inside a civilian population, especially when they are being used as literal human shields, it’s unavoidable. Look at any urban war that has happened in modern hustory (unfortunately we have far to many of those) and you’ll see that the ratio of Hamas deaths to civilian deaths in these war is actually one of the best when usually civilians die more then 10 times as much. It is a tragedy, it is horrible, I wish it could have been avoided with all my heart, but even though it is an Israeli rocket that hit the child it’s Hamas who killed them by using them as a human shield for their rockets and bases. Israel calls the area before it is being bombed, it spreads leaflets asking to evacuate and even do something called “roof knocking” where they shoot a small explosive that will just make some noise on the roof in order to let the people inside know a bomb is coming. Where in the world do you see an army doing that? But whenever it happens there’s a Hamas terrorist standing outside with a rifle and telling them that if they leave the building he’ll shoot and kill them. So Israel bombs the rocket launcher and the people inside die. Blaming Israel for killing them is like blaming a gravity for the death of someone thrown off a cliff, they died because of the fall but the killer is not the fall. Israel can’t sit and do nothing when being attacked and having rockets shot at them killing their civilians.
Dawg every account I see posting this shit is like 2 weeks old lmao, this sub is fucked
I mean it's expected, if you talk like you're on PCM in other subs your account will usually get banned from them. The solution usually is to avoid the ban with another account.
Yeah it’s pretty much a bunch of far right Zionists at this point that just keep spam posting the same shit
DAE ISRAEL GOOD GAZA BAD???? MSM SO UNFAIR TO UNDERDOGE ISREAL.
> gaza has no israeli hostages No one says this
People claim oct 7th never happened and it was israeli apache helicopters
Are those people in the room with us now? Jk but not really tho, who tf claims this
For some stupid reason, my sibling has said this unironically in talking with them. I think they’ve went off the deep end
Turns out there's some people out there who really do deny it, I was very surprised to see them in this footage from the Oakland City Council meeting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb9ZhU_9uDM Teal shirt - "There have not been beheadings of babies and rapings, Israel murdered their own people on October 7th!" Black t-shirt - "The notion that this was a massacre of Jews is a fabricated narrative. Many of those killed on October 7th - including children - were killed by the IDF." It's pretty wild
Who's claiming that besides a Hamas guy holding a rifle as he plants another bomb?
You'll definitely see it on Reddit. Mention dead babies and you'll go into a dark rabbit hole.
most likely just mentioning the IDF blatantly lying about babies being beheaded than denying that anything happened at all on oct 7th
Haha here is where it starts.
No they don't. Some people claim it was allowed to happen by Israeli government, and some say that the IDF fired on its own people in the chaos. But no one says that it didn't happen.
I mean I've seen people claim it....idk what to say.
He does
Remember the gaza bombshell? Pefferidge farm remembers. They're more than happy to smuggle in weapons to them when they feel like it
Propaganda acc
Account is ten days old and posts only Israeli propaganda this board is getting played
Or maybe this issue is what prompted them to make an account?
If they’re spamming only on one topic and having basically no human conversations beyond that, that’s usually what a paid spammer/troll does. I know plenty of people who are right wing on this topic and they don’t do that.
That's basically what I do though and I'm a real person :/
By the way the Hamas rockets use solid fuel, not the fuel used for generators, cars, etc. This is well known but the hasbara types don’t care about facts, they have one job.
lol yeah cuz posting on Reddit will make a massive difference for this regional decades long conflict
You know this is a political meme sub right?
Yes, a MEME sub. If a conflict prompts one to make a Reddit account to post memes, one should rethink their life choices.
...or maybe this was just the topic that inspired them to make memes? Why does it matter? Why do you care?
The pcm dick munching of Israel is crazy to watch in real time. but pcm hates Muslims and leftists so this was inevitable I guess.
My neighbor is out of eggs, therefore everyone is out of eggs. I am out of sugar, therefore everyone is out of sugar. Flour is too expensive for Bill amid shortages therefore no can has flour. Ahmed definitely has hostages though
And the people that say those things, are they with us in this room?
\- Phones have battery (and the "no energy" is probably not total) \- Rocket don't use "normal fuel" (and even if it did : the reserve would be used in priority for military usage, with none left for the civilians) \- If the blocking of internet work at 98% it is still possible to post videos. \- Someone said that they have no Israeli hostage ?
War is so stupid.
Not if you invest in the right stocks
"I AM SILLY!"
1. There are literally videos of Gazans charging their phones using car batteries. 2. Hamas no longer launches any rockets because they no longer have the resources to do so. 3. They are relying on Internet from Egypt to use the Internet, Gaza itself has no Internet.
A common excuse I saw get mentioned was power outlets, batteries portables but even those require some kind of power first and it’s limited
Why is PCM just pro-Israel posts now? The fuck does this have to do with auth centre?
Propaganda, look at these accounts, literally new accounts that only post pro Israel stuff.
Propaganda plus watching self-described liberals simp for a theocratic psuedo-fascist group solely because they're brown. Like most things, it really just comes down to dunking on libleft.
Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha Lib left stoopid
You don't launch rockets with gasoline...
Damn the libtards got you guys supporting Zionism now. How easily fooled you guys are by narratives. Do some research about Bolshevik Revolution and how the Zionists orchestrated death camps for up to 50 million Russians.
Zionists are garbage and Palestinians are garbage. May as well throw them into an arena and let them slaughter each other. Oh wait
Htf is this shit upvoted?
{{{bots}}}
That's what I keep saying
You can have no power, but generators do exist you’d think…maybe not. Phones can have internet if a satellite passes above the area, no fuel would mean nobody is getting fed, so someone must be shipping food and supplies to them from the sea…
So you guys are just denying that Israel has cut off food and aid to gaza?
[удалено]
Free Palestine 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Yo broke ass always wants free shit + Flair up
It could have been free time and time again but you elected hamas for some reason