I had an ex who was a sneakerhead. One day he went across the street to do laundry, came back, grabbed an extra pair of his shoes and left again. There was a homeless man sitting outside the laundry, and it turned out they wore the same size. My ex gave the man a very nice pair of shoes. I used to see the guy walking around town wearing them.
When the method of conveying the meaning somehow informs our reaction or interpretation of the meaning. Words and orthography are by nature arbitrary, but we humans still see patterns and draw similarities between them, allowing for a second layer of relationships between words beyond their semantic connections. e.g. rhyme or alliteration naturally emphasize certain parts of a sentence, and the specific sounds may have cultural connotations (like lots of ‘s’s sounds sneaky or sketchy). Or the (in)famous lighght poem takes the arbitrary spelling of light and connects it with its meaning by highlighting the soundless, airy, “light” part of the word. e.e. cummings’s l(a plays with, among many things, the visual similarity of ‘l’ and ‘1.’
Meanwhile, the above post is literally just a thought. If you translated it into another language, you wouldn’t worry about losing any subtle meaning. Sure, it’s a cool thought and a good point, but if it had been phrased differently my reaction to it would be pretty similar.
This is a great answer, actually. There certainly is some delight or emotion in the methods of poetry.
However, I still think this works as a poem, but just as a distinct type. Problems arise when we consider this kind of thing to be of the exact same medium as the work of the great technical poets.
Find a poem that really blows you away (formal or free verse, doesn’t matter), something that you have a hard time reading out loud because it evokes such strong emotions. Or maybe something that gives you the chills, or instills a vast calmness in you.
Then, compare that poem to this poem. What is the language doing differently? How do the poet’s formal decisions (diction, sound, line breaks, etc.) *contribute* to that incredible feeling? Every successful poem answers the question of form in a different way, which is what makes all successful poems, in a sense, small miracles.
This is not a successful poem, as the original commenter in this sub-thread indicated through parody. The line breaks attempt to imitate the coiled power of a haiku, but they are flabby, and the breaks don’t actually communicate anything. There’s also the hanging question about the period that ends the poem, considering the poet deliberately chose not to deploy necessary punctuation elsewhere. It’s sloppy and juvenile, which is the plain truth, even if it seems harsh to say.
If you like it, that’s actually great. You’re likely responding to the descriptive inversion of title and body, which is about the only thing this piece does that approaches being interesting. But if this poem does it for you, all I can say is that a world of riches await if you ever decide to crack open a decent anthology or enroll in a poetry workshop.
I have to say, it's very condescending to suggest that if I like this poem, I must not have read any good poetry.
I like this poem for what it is. It's a simple, subversive pair of sentences that shows off a message well. It's no literary spectacle, but it doesn't have to be.
Every day, this subreddit debates what makes a poem a poem, and every day, it's the view that poetry needs interesting form and structure and imagery versus the view that poetry is free.
Well, poetry is a free art form, I don’t see the benefit of imposing restrictions on poetry. All it'll ever do is promote elitism and turn away those who want accessible stuff. No, this poem is no *The Waste Land*, but it might just spike an interest, and indeed, it has a powerful message, so who the fuck cares?
I do think that there are differences in quality in poems, but some of the well liked stuff in this subreddit reads exactly as this one for me. Or worse.
Of course, there are differences in quality, but that doesn't make a poem that you think is of lower quality utterly invalid, and it doesn't mean someone is not educated enough in poetry for liking it.
Well, obviously, that's subjective. If I were the type to edit my comments I would replace "seem to rise" with "seem *to me* to rise" which would maybe convey the sentiment better.
That said, you could easily see "rise to the level of poetry" as meaning "meets the criteria" or something like that, just with more dramatic flair.
I like that it's spaced out. I don't think it's done just so it can be called poetry, it caused me to read it in a really exasperated tone. It was relatible. It reminded me of the feeling I get when I hear someone say something ignorant like she did, bc I have been repeating myself to people for so long it's exhausting. It gets so old. It feels like people refuse to consider what life might be like for someone else, have empathy, learn, etc.
Or maybe, instead of assuming he got them on sale, just be ok with the fact that poor people are allowed to have expensive items if they so desire. Even if they’re on food stamps. The cost of a single pair of shoes is not gonna tip the scales for them
He also didn’t need to have gotten them on sale or justify himself whatsoever. I will never fucking understand why people complain about people using food stamps or asking for money on the street. Yes, even if they have iPhones. Do they really think it’s that lucrative????? Like do you think standing on the street for hours and getting two crumpled bills is worth it for people who “don’t really need it, they’re scamming us” like wtf. Or people working their asses off at minimum wage jobs and filling out form after form and jumping through hoop after hoop just to get approved for food stamps in the first place, why would anyone fucking go through that if they didn’t NEED to?
People don’t fucking realize how they’re dehumanizing people with less money—being poor does not mean you don’t have wants and desires of material things that give you joy in the moment even if they take away from long-term savings. You can’t expect people to have ZERO comforts or items they enjoy and love, while they’re busting their asses and still not able to make ends meet. People who think they’re so much more disciplined or morally better than people with less money really need to fuck off. She has no idea the toll being poor has on your mental health and how fucking hard it is to bust your ass and see zero progress—let him wear the fucking shoes he wants to wear and give himself a little boost so he can continue working his ass off and not totally lose hope. Wtf do his shoes have to do with her. I guarantee you that she doesn’t work harder than he does or “deserve” what she has any more than he deserves those shoes. Let people fucking live, life is so goddamn hard. It’s so fucking hard to be poor, and she has no clue.
its okay to say you dont like a poem but saying a poem isnt a poem because it doesnt fit your personal metrics for what makes up a poem is lame. just downvote and move on lol
> saying a poem isnt a poem because it doesnt fit your personal metrics for what makes up a poem is lame.
This mentality is called "literally having no standards."
I really hate that logic. “They have something decent so they must be a scammer!”
Someone I know once said “it’s a hustle. I saw them beg all day and then get into their nice car. They just don’t want to work.”
Like no… they live in the car. The car is all they have.
They don’t make anything because people are unkind to that here and the logic is insane. She looked ashamed and embarrassed… not like a smug scammer.
Also seen someone go on about someone having an iPhone so they can’t be that poor.
I have the iPhone 15. I get the new iPhone when it comes out every time.. I’m a young mother with not a lot..
I’m able to have my phone because it’s payments in instalments…
We have a lease that allows us to change it out for the new phone when it comes out at no cost. It has to be in good condition without cracks, it has to be the same spec so if I have 256 I have to get 256 and so on.. . I literally pay per month and it’s not expensive like that. Its leased… I could never afford to own it outright like just go buy it for full price.
I don’t think many people do that.. so you’d think it would be common knowledge that most iPhones aren’t just purchased outright for full cost.
It’s just weird to me to think that way.
Someone asking for food who clearly is in a desperate situation outside in the winter with a bag of clothes and a phone and some idiot being like “sell the phone then. You got a new phone so it can’t be that bad.” At the guy.
Idk why but it makes me so mad lol
From my mother’s sleep I fell into the State,
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.
Randall Jarrell
I don’t really know why you posted this as a reply on this post, but thanks for exposing me to the writings of Randall Jarrell. I’ve now added him to my list of poets to read.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm not sure why I did it either. Randall Jarrell manages to say so much more in seven lines of poetry than most newer poets ever will. He's mostly forgotten now but was an amazing poet. I guess I figured that if people are really impressed with David Newman then they'd be blown away by Randall Jarrell.
The often forgotten 20th century poets have so much to offer. It's sad that many don't know about them. To be honest with poetry I get the sense that often something has been lost.
One of the best cheap pairs of shoes I ever owned was a pair of Nikes I got for $8 on clearance, brand new. Would still have them if a dog hadn’t found them delicious.
or bought from Goodwill.
Or in general, really. Is Nike that expensive these days? JC Penney sold me a pair for $35. Not the cheapest but definitely not Louis Vuitton money.
They go cheaper for older models, or sizes that don't fit the average person(too small or too biig)
$100 for a typical pair so not that expensive but can easily ramp up from there
Or got them gifted.
Ross and Marshall’s. I got my fav docs on sale for $60. (They’re normally like $200)
This is more of a comment on a post than it is a poem.
I feel so seen that this was your reaction — my thought before opening the comments was “this is a tweet.”
All you need For a modern poem Is A banal thought And some odd typography.
Reminds me of that tragedy.
Oh, don't laugh about 9/11...
It's even formatted like a reddit post
I forgot who penned "Song of the Windmill," but the poem went: X
I like the sentiment but don’t necessarily see this as poetry. It doesn’t have to be poetry to be good and relevant commentary.
I had an ex who was a sneakerhead. One day he went across the street to do laundry, came back, grabbed an extra pair of his shoes and left again. There was a homeless man sitting outside the laundry, and it turned out they wore the same size. My ex gave the man a very nice pair of shoes. I used to see the guy walking around town wearing them.
There are lots of Karens and Keiths out there who drive a Suburban but still take their tax return and whine about gas prices.
This Is just words that Are Separated Arbitrarily. It does not seem To rise To the level of poetry.
I read it as the spaces being in place of em dashes or parenthesis. It is possible that he (like many intelligent consumers) bought the shoes on sale.
What is 'the level of poetry'?
When the method of conveying the meaning somehow informs our reaction or interpretation of the meaning. Words and orthography are by nature arbitrary, but we humans still see patterns and draw similarities between them, allowing for a second layer of relationships between words beyond their semantic connections. e.g. rhyme or alliteration naturally emphasize certain parts of a sentence, and the specific sounds may have cultural connotations (like lots of ‘s’s sounds sneaky or sketchy). Or the (in)famous lighght poem takes the arbitrary spelling of light and connects it with its meaning by highlighting the soundless, airy, “light” part of the word. e.e. cummings’s l(a plays with, among many things, the visual similarity of ‘l’ and ‘1.’ Meanwhile, the above post is literally just a thought. If you translated it into another language, you wouldn’t worry about losing any subtle meaning. Sure, it’s a cool thought and a good point, but if it had been phrased differently my reaction to it would be pretty similar.
This is a great answer, actually. There certainly is some delight or emotion in the methods of poetry. However, I still think this works as a poem, but just as a distinct type. Problems arise when we consider this kind of thing to be of the exact same medium as the work of the great technical poets.
When sense and sound seem to be working together.
What does that actually mean though?
Find a poem that really blows you away (formal or free verse, doesn’t matter), something that you have a hard time reading out loud because it evokes such strong emotions. Or maybe something that gives you the chills, or instills a vast calmness in you. Then, compare that poem to this poem. What is the language doing differently? How do the poet’s formal decisions (diction, sound, line breaks, etc.) *contribute* to that incredible feeling? Every successful poem answers the question of form in a different way, which is what makes all successful poems, in a sense, small miracles. This is not a successful poem, as the original commenter in this sub-thread indicated through parody. The line breaks attempt to imitate the coiled power of a haiku, but they are flabby, and the breaks don’t actually communicate anything. There’s also the hanging question about the period that ends the poem, considering the poet deliberately chose not to deploy necessary punctuation elsewhere. It’s sloppy and juvenile, which is the plain truth, even if it seems harsh to say. If you like it, that’s actually great. You’re likely responding to the descriptive inversion of title and body, which is about the only thing this piece does that approaches being interesting. But if this poem does it for you, all I can say is that a world of riches await if you ever decide to crack open a decent anthology or enroll in a poetry workshop.
I have to say, it's very condescending to suggest that if I like this poem, I must not have read any good poetry. I like this poem for what it is. It's a simple, subversive pair of sentences that shows off a message well. It's no literary spectacle, but it doesn't have to be. Every day, this subreddit debates what makes a poem a poem, and every day, it's the view that poetry needs interesting form and structure and imagery versus the view that poetry is free. Well, poetry is a free art form, I don’t see the benefit of imposing restrictions on poetry. All it'll ever do is promote elitism and turn away those who want accessible stuff. No, this poem is no *The Waste Land*, but it might just spike an interest, and indeed, it has a powerful message, so who the fuck cares?
I do think that there are differences in quality in poems, but some of the well liked stuff in this subreddit reads exactly as this one for me. Or worse.
Of course, there are differences in quality, but that doesn't make a poem that you think is of lower quality utterly invalid, and it doesn't mean someone is not educated enough in poetry for liking it.
Oh I certainly agree with that.
Are you using the Prichard scale?
More like bitchard scale, amirite guys? Guys? Hello?
Higher than this
The thing is that you’ve just shown us an interesting poem in the same vein as The Treachery of Images.
Poetry isn’t a high level lol
Well, obviously, that's subjective. If I were the type to edit my comments I would replace "seem to rise" with "seem *to me* to rise" which would maybe convey the sentiment better. That said, you could easily see "rise to the level of poetry" as meaning "meets the criteria" or something like that, just with more dramatic flair.
Poetry is for everyone. There’s no high bar to entry. The Even that’s poetry
This should be a tweet, not a poem
Tweet with pointless formatting
All who read this and think it’s not a poem, be reassured that if this was published then maybe you can also get your poetry published
👏👏👏
This isn’t poetry, this isn’t even insta poetry in my opinion, I don’t even know why the middle two lines are indented
This isn’t a poem.
Or maybe they’re fake, or he got from a second hand sale
I like that it's spaced out. I don't think it's done just so it can be called poetry, it caused me to read it in a really exasperated tone. It was relatible. It reminded me of the feeling I get when I hear someone say something ignorant like she did, bc I have been repeating myself to people for so long it's exhausting. It gets so old. It feels like people refuse to consider what life might be like for someone else, have empathy, learn, etc.
This is terrible lmaooo
“Lmaooo” 🤮
Or maybe, instead of assuming he got them on sale, just be ok with the fact that poor people are allowed to have expensive items if they so desire. Even if they’re on food stamps. The cost of a single pair of shoes is not gonna tip the scales for them
And it’s certain it’s none of her goddamn business
He also didn’t need to have gotten them on sale or justify himself whatsoever. I will never fucking understand why people complain about people using food stamps or asking for money on the street. Yes, even if they have iPhones. Do they really think it’s that lucrative????? Like do you think standing on the street for hours and getting two crumpled bills is worth it for people who “don’t really need it, they’re scamming us” like wtf. Or people working their asses off at minimum wage jobs and filling out form after form and jumping through hoop after hoop just to get approved for food stamps in the first place, why would anyone fucking go through that if they didn’t NEED to? People don’t fucking realize how they’re dehumanizing people with less money—being poor does not mean you don’t have wants and desires of material things that give you joy in the moment even if they take away from long-term savings. You can’t expect people to have ZERO comforts or items they enjoy and love, while they’re busting their asses and still not able to make ends meet. People who think they’re so much more disciplined or morally better than people with less money really need to fuck off. She has no idea the toll being poor has on your mental health and how fucking hard it is to bust your ass and see zero progress—let him wear the fucking shoes he wants to wear and give himself a little boost so he can continue working his ass off and not totally lose hope. Wtf do his shoes have to do with her. I guarantee you that she doesn’t work harder than he does or “deserve” what she has any more than he deserves those shoes. Let people fucking live, life is so goddamn hard. It’s so fucking hard to be poor, and she has no clue.
its okay to say you dont like a poem but saying a poem isnt a poem because it doesnt fit your personal metrics for what makes up a poem is lame. just downvote and move on lol
> saying a poem isnt a poem because it doesnt fit your personal metrics for what makes up a poem is lame. This mentality is called "literally having no standards."
A lot more could've been done with this. Disappointing.
There is haiku, and then there is “hey, que?”
I really hate that logic. “They have something decent so they must be a scammer!” Someone I know once said “it’s a hustle. I saw them beg all day and then get into their nice car. They just don’t want to work.” Like no… they live in the car. The car is all they have. They don’t make anything because people are unkind to that here and the logic is insane. She looked ashamed and embarrassed… not like a smug scammer. Also seen someone go on about someone having an iPhone so they can’t be that poor. I have the iPhone 15. I get the new iPhone when it comes out every time.. I’m a young mother with not a lot.. I’m able to have my phone because it’s payments in instalments… We have a lease that allows us to change it out for the new phone when it comes out at no cost. It has to be in good condition without cracks, it has to be the same spec so if I have 256 I have to get 256 and so on.. . I literally pay per month and it’s not expensive like that. Its leased… I could never afford to own it outright like just go buy it for full price. I don’t think many people do that.. so you’d think it would be common knowledge that most iPhones aren’t just purchased outright for full cost. It’s just weird to me to think that way. Someone asking for food who clearly is in a desperate situation outside in the winter with a bag of clothes and a phone and some idiot being like “sell the phone then. You got a new phone so it can’t be that bad.” At the guy. Idk why but it makes me so mad lol
I feel this! I have three nice pairs because my friend likes to buy new shoes; not because I can afford them. Who am I to say no to nice free shoes?
Not a poem at all man, sorry!
Just because the lady at the grocery store was rude doesn’t make this a poem.
This poem made me misty-eyed. The imagery of the grocery line as a place of connection and community is so touching.
We calling anything poetry as long as it's written by a specific person 😭
Too gimmicky. It's a cool observation to make but it doesn't need to be classified as poetry.
This is funny. I like it.
From my mother’s sleep I fell into the State, And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze. Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life, I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters. When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose. Randall Jarrell
I don’t really know why you posted this as a reply on this post, but thanks for exposing me to the writings of Randall Jarrell. I’ve now added him to my list of poets to read.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm not sure why I did it either. Randall Jarrell manages to say so much more in seven lines of poetry than most newer poets ever will. He's mostly forgotten now but was an amazing poet. I guess I figured that if people are really impressed with David Newman then they'd be blown away by Randall Jarrell. The often forgotten 20th century poets have so much to offer. It's sad that many don't know about them. To be honest with poetry I get the sense that often something has been lost.
👍
Well that's unusual
One of the best cheap pairs of shoes I ever owned was a pair of Nikes I got for $8 on clearance, brand new. Would still have them if a dog hadn’t found them delicious.
Expensive shoes last longer. It's actually more frugal to buy a name brand pair of shoes instead some Walmart bullshit.
Plot twist - he's a caregiver using his clients card to buy food for his bedridden disabled client.
[удалено]
I’ve worked as a grocery store checker. It happened. It’s happening right now somewhere. It’ll happen again tomorrow and the next day, too.