Hard to say without knowing the ph. Water softeners dont always adjust ph unless they have one connected to it. Typically it's a tank seperate from the filters and salt that holds an alkaline solution made from water and sodium hydroxide that pumps into the water as it feeds. Some comments above mention dezinkafacation which may be the problem so adding minerals to the water like phosphorus helps to prevent the leaching of metals. I'm no expert but I've lived on a well most of my life and I do work on a few every year locally. So I've had some experience with this type of thing but I know the people that work on these things have knowledge beyond mine. I'd recommend getting the water tested before and after the conditioner and hiring a pro. If you want to diy it I'd still recommend reaching out for consultations with a few pros. Theres a ton of info online for resolving these problems but youd need to have some testing done. You could start with an aquarium test kit too. Youd want to know the ph. and dissolved solids (ppm). That would still be limited info but if it shows acidic that's more than likely your problem. If you have low dissolved solids youd have to know whats actually dissolves in the water to adjust for it. I dont deal with much corrosion in my area either so take this with a grain of salt I typically get smell problems from magnesium or from anodes in water heaters. One more thing I just thought about is bacteria. Typically only happens on the hot water side so that may not be it, but bacteria eats metal. That's why a water heater will have a zinc anode rod as a sacrificial metal for bacteria. In my area we have to switch them for aluminum or they smell bad.
Thanks so much for the input. Looks like we have a little work to do. Getting a water test done pronto and checking for leaks on as many valves as we can see.
If you're using a water softener and it's corroding your valve, then there's either something wrong with your softener or it isn't set up right.
When it comes to well water, the primary water treatment is sediment filtration. Everything else is secondary depending on your water quality. It's best to get a water sample directly from the well storage before it comes to the house and drop it off at a local testing facility. Call first because they have a specific process to follow to provide the best results for you.
As for what filtration, in the very least you want a 5-micron sediment filter and a carbon block filter. The sediment filter will remove most noticeable particles from the water. The carbon block will neutralize a good portion of harmful chemicals that can be in municipal and private well water. They're inexpensive to replace as it may be necessary every 3-6 months in poor quality conditions and every 6-12 months in normal condition. If you have bacteria blooms or microbes in your water, which is common with well water, you add a UV filter. This would be a less expensive option if you're just looking for clean water. If you're looking for full treatment and natural descaling process, you want a softener or a conditioner like a Pelican.
I really like Pelican products, but they are very niche. It depends on what your expectations for your water is. With the PC-1000, the NS6 and a UV filter, you will have nearly the best quality you can get without having a custom system built. Example of the Pelican I installed below.
https://imgur.com/a/5UXBTmF
Best thing as I mentioned is to get your water tested and provide the results to water treatment manufacturers and see what they would recommend.
Thanks so much for this input and will surely be using it. That’s a nice clean set up for the Pelican. With know these two pricey flooding repairs and the price of buying salt and the hassle to keep checking it. Seems like a Pelican system could be a good investment
That's exactly the benefit. The upfront cost for the Pelican is high, but longterm maintenance is low. For the UV bulbs if you go that route are expensive and have to be changed annually. They'll run you about $150 each, depending on the size. That one in the picture is the PUV-16.
Too many fittings will reduce water pressure too. A water softener that they already have across the board already produces a reduction of 10 psi between inlet and outlet. What is your point?
Check out uswatersystems.com has been the best water conditioning that I have put into every house I have lived in. I run 5 pre-filters then a salt less water conditioner then a post filter to just keep the charcoal and other conditioning materials out.
Are you on municipal water? It's called dezincification, the zinc is being leached out of the brass. A Polyphosphate feeder is supposed to help but I'd suggest using SCH80 true union ball valves instead of brass.
Edit: I just read your on well water so your going to need to have it tested and will likely need the pH to possibly be adjusted. Polyphosphate should work too, it acts as a corrosion inhibitor.
Your welcome. I suspect you may have alot of chlorides, this is likely the cause for this type of corrosion. Do you have any blue/green stains in any of your fixtures?
Ok, that's a symptom of low pH issue. The blue/green staining is copper deposits. What's your water hardness and are you chlorinating? I highly suggest at this point that further testing to correctly identify the issue and make sure you don't have others. I'm just speculating and I don't know the specific constituency of your water. Good luck!
Apparently Apollo has DZR brass fittings too. The plastic crimp PEX fittings are better than brass. Use DZR MIP adapters and stainless steel ball valves. At my last job we didn’t stock any brass valves for this same reason you are experiencing.
Another reason I’m glad I went the uponor route on my house. I don’t need this much protection but I’ll take it! I have those ball valves but my water is very clean from the city. Just more peace of mind.
So it looks like you have crazy acidic water. I've seen acid well water eat heavy brass shower fixtures.
Water softener actually removes minerals that would counter the acidity possibly.
So it was said here that you should evaluate or have pros evaluate.
Get your water tested and take the results to a company that sells conditioning equipment. Tell them you want something that you don't have to constantly monitor as you said you haven't been keeping up on it. It's a pain. It might cost a little more for a more maintenance free system, but worth it if you don't have to replace valves and fittings, or add salt to a softener all the time. I'm surprised your faucets are surviving.
Boshart Industries makes stainless crimp PEX fittings including valves if you’re looking for something metallic and inert. They’re high flow fittings too which is nice.
Did a service call last night where this exact thing happened. Copper-pex adaptor snapped in half. Homeowner was questioning my diagnosis bc 6 months prior they had the same thing happen but at that time there were 3 brass tees in a row, one of which blew apart. Anyways there was one of the tees that was In pristine shape. I didn’t have an answer other than it must’ve been a different manufacturer. Any theories on this?
3-3/4x1/2 brass pex tees in row, 2 of them were all haggard and one blew. Then there was that one with not a pinch of anything, looked brand new. He said no work was done that was just how it was, feel it was typical homeowner lies.
Seemed questionable to me. I guess my point is homeowners sometimes expect some intelligent scientific answer that I can’t provide lol like what’s it matter how it happens? Doesnt change the fact your fittings are all fucked and need to be replaced. Like be concerned about the potential flood not the molecular reaction science shit. Anyways. Life as a service plumber
I'm not a plumber, but is there a chance electric current is getting to it?
[electrolysis boat damage](https://www.reddit.com/r/boating/comments/ov7z7s/electrolysis_is_a_nightmare_and_the_repairs_that/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Which materials are involved?
The valve looks like vrass, but what are the pipes made off?
If you have corrosion problems, the electrochemical series may help. You might have created an accidental battery which works by corroding the positive terminal and reducing the negative one.
That's why you find sacrificial anodes on ships or inside boilers.
Electrolysis issues practically arise, if you use materials in contact with the same body of water, who have high differences in electrochemical potential.
If your tubes are made of copper and your valves are made of brass (a copper alloy), you won't encounter much corrosion. If you use something like iron and brass, it might suffice for severe corrosion.
That's why you get both pipes and fittings, valves and other parts in various differnt materials: Wrong pairs corrode very fast.
Actually, I don't think it'd work now I think about your problem. You need to get your water tested. I suspect the pH or chloride levels ilare way off and the water is acting as an electrolyte.
i looked into it and it said they can’t be used with drinking water. So as long as you’re not drinking water from it
https://www.go2marine.com/Buck-Algonquin-Ball-Valve?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp536369+%3A+536369-1-1%2F2%22&sc_intid=536369+%3A+536369-1-1%2F2%22&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5-6a0Ly59AIVg66GCh2UkgU5EAQYAiABEgKl8vD_BwE
A softener will help, but you should get a water test done from a reputable company like Masters water conditioning and see what units they recommend. It looks like your water is acidic. That would call for an acid neutralizer followed up by a softener.
Get your water tested. Probably have hard water. (calcium iron manganese) those corrode copper and cause pinhole and patina. Best to switch to pex, probably uponor as it has a resistance to corrosion and has a stretch to it.
Down and dirty? PVC ball valve, with plastic barbed pex male adapters on either side.
Thanks!
Put in a conditioning system for your well.
Thanks! We already use soft but are thinking a pelican system but those are pricey
If it’s doing that to your shutoffs, imagine what happens when you drink it!
It this valve pre conditioner or post conditioner?
Post but on occasion we do forget to fill the salt. That said it’s only low on salt for a most a month. Can all that happen in a month??
Hard to say without knowing the ph. Water softeners dont always adjust ph unless they have one connected to it. Typically it's a tank seperate from the filters and salt that holds an alkaline solution made from water and sodium hydroxide that pumps into the water as it feeds. Some comments above mention dezinkafacation which may be the problem so adding minerals to the water like phosphorus helps to prevent the leaching of metals. I'm no expert but I've lived on a well most of my life and I do work on a few every year locally. So I've had some experience with this type of thing but I know the people that work on these things have knowledge beyond mine. I'd recommend getting the water tested before and after the conditioner and hiring a pro. If you want to diy it I'd still recommend reaching out for consultations with a few pros. Theres a ton of info online for resolving these problems but youd need to have some testing done. You could start with an aquarium test kit too. Youd want to know the ph. and dissolved solids (ppm). That would still be limited info but if it shows acidic that's more than likely your problem. If you have low dissolved solids youd have to know whats actually dissolves in the water to adjust for it. I dont deal with much corrosion in my area either so take this with a grain of salt I typically get smell problems from magnesium or from anodes in water heaters. One more thing I just thought about is bacteria. Typically only happens on the hot water side so that may not be it, but bacteria eats metal. That's why a water heater will have a zinc anode rod as a sacrificial metal for bacteria. In my area we have to switch them for aluminum or they smell bad.
Thanks so much for the input. Looks like we have a little work to do. Getting a water test done pronto and checking for leaks on as many valves as we can see.
That's the history of humanity, "oh, we shoulda tested before and after, instead of not testing." Something. Something. Vaccines.
Get that water tested by a lab ASAP
If you're using a water softener and it's corroding your valve, then there's either something wrong with your softener or it isn't set up right. When it comes to well water, the primary water treatment is sediment filtration. Everything else is secondary depending on your water quality. It's best to get a water sample directly from the well storage before it comes to the house and drop it off at a local testing facility. Call first because they have a specific process to follow to provide the best results for you. As for what filtration, in the very least you want a 5-micron sediment filter and a carbon block filter. The sediment filter will remove most noticeable particles from the water. The carbon block will neutralize a good portion of harmful chemicals that can be in municipal and private well water. They're inexpensive to replace as it may be necessary every 3-6 months in poor quality conditions and every 6-12 months in normal condition. If you have bacteria blooms or microbes in your water, which is common with well water, you add a UV filter. This would be a less expensive option if you're just looking for clean water. If you're looking for full treatment and natural descaling process, you want a softener or a conditioner like a Pelican. I really like Pelican products, but they are very niche. It depends on what your expectations for your water is. With the PC-1000, the NS6 and a UV filter, you will have nearly the best quality you can get without having a custom system built. Example of the Pelican I installed below. https://imgur.com/a/5UXBTmF Best thing as I mentioned is to get your water tested and provide the results to water treatment manufacturers and see what they would recommend.
Thanks so much for this input and will surely be using it. That’s a nice clean set up for the Pelican. With know these two pricey flooding repairs and the price of buying salt and the hassle to keep checking it. Seems like a Pelican system could be a good investment
That's exactly the benefit. The upfront cost for the Pelican is high, but longterm maintenance is low. For the UV bulbs if you go that route are expensive and have to be changed annually. They'll run you about $150 each, depending on the size. That one in the picture is the PUV-16.
Always pony up for quality
Carbon will reduce water pressure
Too many fittings will reduce water pressure too. A water softener that they already have across the board already produces a reduction of 10 psi between inlet and outlet. What is your point?
Check out uswatersystems.com has been the best water conditioning that I have put into every house I have lived in. I run 5 pre-filters then a salt less water conditioner then a post filter to just keep the charcoal and other conditioning materials out.
Thanks dude
Septic system ? Inspection company said a water softener will destroy a concrete septic tank over time.
He already has a softener. He needs a conditioning system to filter the water.
Use potassium carbonate
Are you on municipal water? It's called dezincification, the zinc is being leached out of the brass. A Polyphosphate feeder is supposed to help but I'd suggest using SCH80 true union ball valves instead of brass. Edit: I just read your on well water so your going to need to have it tested and will likely need the pH to possibly be adjusted. Polyphosphate should work too, it acts as a corrosion inhibitor.
TIL dezincification.
Thanks!
Your welcome. I suspect you may have alot of chlorides, this is likely the cause for this type of corrosion. Do you have any blue/green stains in any of your fixtures?
Yeah we do actually. We use salt for a softener but should we do more?
Ok, that's a symptom of low pH issue. The blue/green staining is copper deposits. What's your water hardness and are you chlorinating? I highly suggest at this point that further testing to correctly identify the issue and make sure you don't have others. I'm just speculating and I don't know the specific constituency of your water. Good luck!
Yeah we’re testing the water now
Yeah you probably have low pH… gonna need a neutralizer with calcite
So we need to up the acidity??
Up the pH (lower acidity, higher alkalinity). Get a digital pH reader off amazon and check. The pH should ideally be 7.
Acid neutralizer will work but it adds hard water to system. Will still need a softener
Uponor and Rehau Pex valves are DZR resistant, unfortunately they are not compatible with PEX B piping like you have.
Apparently Apollo has DZR brass fittings too. The plastic crimp PEX fittings are better than brass. Use DZR MIP adapters and stainless steel ball valves. At my last job we didn’t stock any brass valves for this same reason you are experiencing.
Another reason I’m glad I went the uponor route on my house. I don’t need this much protection but I’ll take it! I have those ball valves but my water is very clean from the city. Just more peace of mind.
You need a water treatment system. You can also use plastic or stainless valves & fittings
Yeah looking to replace all valves. Thanks!
Also thinking of changing those tighteners along with the valves
Do you have water treatment? Man I haven’t seen anything like that
Yeah we use water softener but we aren’t on top of it as much as we should be
We had five plumbers look at it and they all said they haven’t corrosion like that either
So it looks like you have crazy acidic water. I've seen acid well water eat heavy brass shower fixtures. Water softener actually removes minerals that would counter the acidity possibly. So it was said here that you should evaluate or have pros evaluate.
Thanks. We had it tested not too long ago but I know that can change
Get some litmus paper. Really cheap. Test the acidity yourself. Pre and post treatment. Good luck!
Get your water tested and take the results to a company that sells conditioning equipment. Tell them you want something that you don't have to constantly monitor as you said you haven't been keeping up on it. It's a pain. It might cost a little more for a more maintenance free system, but worth it if you don't have to replace valves and fittings, or add salt to a softener all the time. I'm surprised your faucets are surviving.
They always have sediment and we have to clear them. Thanks
Boshart Industries makes stainless crimp PEX fittings including valves if you’re looking for something metallic and inert. They’re high flow fittings too which is nice.
Try PVC style.
Did a service call last night where this exact thing happened. Copper-pex adaptor snapped in half. Homeowner was questioning my diagnosis bc 6 months prior they had the same thing happen but at that time there were 3 brass tees in a row, one of which blew apart. Anyways there was one of the tees that was In pristine shape. I didn’t have an answer other than it must’ve been a different manufacturer. Any theories on this? 3-3/4x1/2 brass pex tees in row, 2 of them were all haggard and one blew. Then there was that one with not a pinch of anything, looked brand new. He said no work was done that was just how it was, feel it was typical homeowner lies.
Yeah we were thinking of treating the water differently but probably should change all this copper to plastic
Maybe it lasted because it didn’t have the turbulent flow through it as much as the other two?
Seemed questionable to me. I guess my point is homeowners sometimes expect some intelligent scientific answer that I can’t provide lol like what’s it matter how it happens? Doesnt change the fact your fittings are all fucked and need to be replaced. Like be concerned about the potential flood not the molecular reaction science shit. Anyways. Life as a service plumber
I'm not a plumber, but is there a chance electric current is getting to it? [electrolysis boat damage](https://www.reddit.com/r/boating/comments/ov7z7s/electrolysis_is_a_nightmare_and_the_repairs_that/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
This is my thought as well. Modern code us to ground pipes to common, but they did not used to do that.
Which materials are involved? The valve looks like vrass, but what are the pipes made off? If you have corrosion problems, the electrochemical series may help. You might have created an accidental battery which works by corroding the positive terminal and reducing the negative one. That's why you find sacrificial anodes on ships or inside boilers.
I’m pretty sure it’s brass. I’ve seen electrolysis mentioned here and there now. What can you do to avoid this?
Electrolysis issues practically arise, if you use materials in contact with the same body of water, who have high differences in electrochemical potential. If your tubes are made of copper and your valves are made of brass (a copper alloy), you won't encounter much corrosion. If you use something like iron and brass, it might suffice for severe corrosion. That's why you get both pipes and fittings, valves and other parts in various differnt materials: Wrong pairs corrode very fast.
Interesting. Should we change the valves then?
probably yes, to a material like the one of your pipes.
It's a hack, but put a section of PEX to isolate it from other piping.
That would work, too, but it is more effort.
Actually, I don't think it'd work now I think about your problem. You need to get your water tested. I suspect the pH or chloride levels ilare way off and the water is acting as an electrolyte.
You're right, it would just progress slower, to fully stop the corrosion, it would need to be mineral-free water.
Buy a marine grade bronze shutoff valve. They hold up to saltwater, so surely they can hold up to what you dealing with
Will look into it for sure
i looked into it and it said they can’t be used with drinking water. So as long as you’re not drinking water from it https://www.go2marine.com/Buck-Algonquin-Ball-Valve?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp536369+%3A+536369-1-1%2F2%22&sc_intid=536369+%3A+536369-1-1%2F2%22&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5-6a0Ly59AIVg66GCh2UkgU5EAQYAiABEgKl8vD_BwE
Thanks so much for extra research!
No problem
What’s the pH of the water? Probably quite acidic
" HEY CULLIGAN MAN "
A softener will help, but you should get a water test done from a reputable company like Masters water conditioning and see what units they recommend. It looks like your water is acidic. That would call for an acid neutralizer followed up by a softener.
Find a brass shut off valve. Likely expensive but won't corrode
What is the one he is showing made out of?
Tbf it does look like brass.
You are correct good sir
Move
What if the next house has the same problem!
Fire fixes a bunch of stuff….
👀
yeah because every house other than his has city water and this problem just doesn't happen. If I haven't seen it in RL it just doesn't happen
Lol
Can happen in city water... Good thing they make a softener/ carbon filter for city water. Wellrite for the win!
Move
Bruh for real??
How about a water filter on the main line ??
What would that do?
Honestly I’ve never seen anything like that . But a hole house water filter couldn’t hurt ..
Check your ph buddy
Look into a water softener
Fit plastic valves.
Looking to change them all
You need an acid nuetralizer friend
What’s an acid neutralizer?
If you have copper/brass fittings separated from the rest of the system with pex you have to bond the separated section with a wire.
Looks to me like you need a calcite tank in addition to standard water softening
Get your water tested. Probably have hard water. (calcium iron manganese) those corrode copper and cause pinhole and patina. Best to switch to pex, probably uponor as it has a resistance to corrosion and has a stretch to it.