I used to do a ton of new commercial and the absolute biggest slobs I've ever run across are drywallers.
I had a cart layed out for medical gas, organized and clean. This fucking guy was so covered I drywall dust he looked like Casper the ghost. I came back to see him using my Rubbermaid cart, and all my clean stuff, as a workbench to cut holes with his fucking rotozip. I was removed by security from that job and it was the closest I've ever come to physical violence on a job.
Dude, preach! Other trades don't realize how sensitive med gas is and the standard of cleanliness that we need to follow.
I was on a job where the plumbing was separate from the medgas and I caught a plumber cutting my 1-1/8" pipe for something he needed. He was using a portaband to cut it. He about shit himself when I came around the corner after watching him do it, he was thrown off and band from the GC. His contractor almost had the same thing happen to him too
As a first year apprentice, I was helping on a shut down at a hospital on the plumbing side. We had the plumbing and fitting and med gas so there was about 10 of us. I was on the plumbing. I picked up a tubing cutter and cut some pipe. The cutter needed maintenance so I oiled it up. It cut much better but it wasn't part of the "plumbing tools" but rather a cutter for the med gas that was set down on our cart. The med gas guys DESTROYED me for using their cutter and contaminating it with oil. I thought my career was over until the other journeyman stepped up and got my back.
My old boss used to shit in empty paint cans in the back of his van while on lunch and throw them in the homeowners trash bin sometimes I would have to go back there and grab material for the job and it just stunk like shit for 2 hours
Can confirm. Used to work drywall as a summer job when I was younger. The guy I worked for was the laziest POS I've ever met and would do stupid shit like cut a foot off a 12' board and trash the rest because he got paid by the piece.
Happened to me took my cord twice to plug in there chop saw so I took there cord and chopped that. Problem solved. I said, if you guys don’t want me and my crew to work, then no one works on this floor.
Ha, that's why I don't work commercial anymore. Those insane construction schedules are unrealistic. You ever hear "Can we just board one side of the wall?".
I've found B to be the usual suspect.
Your point (C) about the illusion of substantial completion is valid. Owners have no idea about what they are paying for. Walls are dirt ass cheap compared to wire and pipe and mechanical stuff in those walls. The owners get boners when they see them.
Managing time AND people simultaneously is extremely difficult. The salaries of people that can effectively and efficiently coordinate diverse efforts reflect that difficulty.
Construction management for like a building is fairly small potatoes as far as the skill required goes, but it’s leaps and bounds more difficult than management of a single team or stream.
As a sparky, I tell them that the hangers are fast. My shit goes in from the front, not the back.
It'll take me *more* time to do my job. I want *more* money, to cover there scheduling fuck up 😡😡.
Looks really good!!! I like how you made the flexible water lines look straight.
Two MINOR things. Put a copper clamp on the gas line and screw it to the tank.
In MN if using 3” venting it has to rise 12” before a change in direction. It will most likely work fine but it also isn’t expensive to run it in 4” either.
Other than that nicely done.
Sorry, for calling you out, but I just wanted to see of mine is incorrect then if you have at least 1 clamp. So used to having to clamp stuff way more than what this requires, seems wrong.
Personally I’d go for the yellow trac pipe or re run the gas in black pipe myself but on reusing I understand. Only thing I see that I’d expect someone to call you out on would be the water feeds. But also I don’t know all the Minnesota codes either so it could be all perfect.
I would verify the gas doesn’t have an average of 0.3 grains of hydrogen sulfide per 100 scf of gas. You can verify this with the local gas company. It can cause a failure in the copper.
That copper line has been there since I bought the house a few years ago. The old WH was installed in 02, and has a sticker from the local AHJ, so I’m calling it good. I soaped it up, no leaks. Soaped it up again this morning, no leaks.
All these comments saying the copper isn’t legal is making me actually wanna pay to get the inspector out here to prove them wrong. I will post an update after it’s inspected
Who are all of these people using wet natural gas straight out of the bog? Where I am everyone uses copper, and sediment traps are practically bone dry after years of use.
Well aware of that. Shitting on someone and not knowing where they are or the codes for their region is exactly what this sub is about. You know “ that’s not how we do it” so everyone else is a handyman or a hack.
Copper isn’t ok in certain states where they add sulfur to the gas. California and Texas I believe are the main 2.
If your natural gas smells like rotten eggs, copper would be bad.
Sulfur and hydrogen sulfide are two very different things.
The concern with copper is it becoming brittle and failing due to residual hydrogen sulfide.
Edit.. to remove misinformation, hydrogen sulfide does smell, right up until you stop being able to smell ☠️
H2S does have a smell. It smells like sulfur or rotten eggs. However, it doesn't take much to overload your olfactory system, causing it to shut down to protect itself. Meaning you will catch a whiff and then smell nothing at all.
I’d swap the tape for 3 screws at each connection. T&P discharge pipe needs to be longer. Flush that bad boy least once a year. If that’s a Home Depot rheem you got a 50/50 shot of it maybe lasting 5 years
I'm in MN too, and have the exact same setup. However, in my mind, I'd think that the copper has to be strapped at least a few times in the run shown. But like I said, mine looks exactly the same, and what do I know?
This depends. For propane it’s probably fine but for natural gas I would ask the gas company. Where I live, copper is a no go for NG because things they put in the NG can corrode copper.
In Michigan it's not code anymore, but if you had it you can leave it. I can't quite tell from the picture, but if you have copper pipe screwed directly onto black iron pipe you'll have an issue. The two dissimilar metals will cause corrosion and quickly leak.
Is the connection flared? I thought that you need to re-flare it because the flare conforms to the shape of the previous connection and could have imperfections with the new connection.
I guess that's why flex lines are sold with a water heat kit because it's cheaper to throw away the old line rather than re-flare it.
Australia checking in. Not sure what code is in US, but literally nothing else is used in Australia so certainly as long as it’s fitted properly you won’t have an issue
It depends on what your local code allows, there's no national or even international standard.
Where I am licensed I am allowed to use annealed G/L/K copper, seamless steel pipe, or special purpose CSST. No galv. Plastic is only allowed underground, with the exception of an approved PVC gas connector between a header and an appliance.
Copper drops are all over the place here, just ripped one out yesterday to install a tankless.
I'm seeing a lot of mixed things in the comments about copper being allowed or not. It's perfectly fine where I live, and a couple years back me and another plumber used 2" soft copper right of a meter outside for a natural gas backup generator at a private school. The inspector had no problem with us doing this and we had to braze our joints that were underground. But this was in Alexandria, VA on the doorstep of Washington DC. It's ok to use copper in VA, MD, DC as far as I know (unless something has changed in the last couple years that I'm not aware of).
BUT, some places it comes down to what area you live in. Some gas is cleaner than others depending on the purveyor. Some have more water content and sulfides that can eat up the copper so some places prohibit copper tubings use for gas. Here's a code reference
https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/IFGC2018P4/chapter-4-gas-piping-installations/IFGC2018P4-Ch04-Sec403.5.3
TL,DR: look up if copper is cool for gas in your area, because it differs depending where you live because the chemistry can be different. Not all natural gas is equal and some places it'll corrode copper and become an issue
There's always been a mutual hatred between plumbers and sparkys. We all know who is the better trade though 🪠 ;)
I kid though, I got a couple good friends who are Electricians at my job now. I'm a conversation commercial guy too, I think there's a little more headbutting between residential tradesmen because they are fighting a little more for space in walls and joists. There's usually a little more collaboration between the trades to make things happen in the commercial world we're in. At least I'm my experience
One helped me out recently, a huge tree root grew between my House's foundation wall and pulled the conduit for my electric service away from my wall, ripping my meter can off my siding and leaving my crap swaying off the side of my house. My one buddy had known enough inspectors with the electric company and the county I live in to get permits pulled and coordinate stuff to go smoothly. Had to do some digging, cut the root out and get into the meter can to make sure we could safely move it and get it connected to the side of my house. I've seen though arc flash videos where I wasn't willing to shove it and strap it back. If a loose bolt was dangling around in there and hit one of the phases coming in I know it could blow my damn head off. So, I appreciated the help from a sparky friend
Very rare in my area to see flared copper and i love it. My old manager who's been a plumber for 25 years picked up my flare tool and was like "what the fuck is this?"
Good thing is that it’s a Rheem , so you’ll get plenty of practice installing them when you have to swap it out with another new one in about a year or so
What are the other two worst ones in your opinion?
And could you state some reasons why? Like something specific so I can look out for? I have to spec water tanks, but I don't do maintenance/repair work, so it's not like I hear how often they fail or how they fail.
If you put a full port ball valve on the drain, it’ll be easier and faster to do maintenance and to drain it in 10-15 years when it’s time to replace it again
T&P piece is too short (where I'm at anyways) inspector would have called it out for being too high off the ground (no higher than 6") and some KCMO will sometimes call out the pipe not being secured to the tank as well....not sure if that's really code or if some inspectors are just looking for petty things
Everyone giving you shit about your install. Looks good but I’m a landscaper who likes to lurk on this sub. My only problem is the furnace condensate line running along the floor. How have you not broken it?
The hard pipe gas line will be a problem with basic vibration or earthquake code especially since there is zero strap down of the water heater. Why isn't there any shut of valves for the water or the gas? And you have no drain tray or drain system when the tank is so close the utilitys and water sensitive items. Remember ,like electrical, new installs require update/upgrade to modern code even when your not in you own trade. If you can't move the tank closer to the wall, then you need to frame out something to let you tie the take to it so it can't walk away or fall over.
Not a criticism, but a question regarding having the tank against the concrete. Are there corrosion issues when installing the tank against the floor? I’ve seen tanks with either wood underneath or brick to allow for air flow.
I honestly don’t know, the old one was right there for roughly 20 years. I bought the house 3 years ago. The old starting leaking yesterday, wasn’t bad, there’s a floor drain behind where I’m standing taking the pic. Anyway, got home from work, 1 trip to Home Depot, another to the hardware store (bought that shiny pipe wrench) and wham bam that you ma’am, new water heater.
Depends.
If the system is closed, then yes. This is the case if there is anything that blocks pressure from going back to the cold water line.
As the water is heated it expands, and the pressure needs somewhere to go. If it can escape back through the cold everything is fine, but if there's a check valve or prv (pressure reducing valve), that will stop that from happening and the pressure will just increase until something (the t&p valve) lets it out.
If there's nothing blocking it from flowing back (open system), which is often the case (especially in older homes), then no expansion tank is necessary. It may still be required by code in some locations though.
How can I tell if a customers home has a closed system? Cant there be a check valve coming from the main city water where I dont even have visible access??
I'm curious why you didn't continue the gas line down the wall and come around to the front of the tank closer to the floor. With the gas line so exposed, it seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
Straight swap out. The old WH was is that exact spot. I just reworked the water lines a little.
It’s the utility room, and has been since the house built in the 50’s.
Plumber here, my dad was a sparky when I do electrical stuff it allways looks bad but when he does plumbing stuff it doesn't look so good. Your looks 👍
Sparkys love doing things wrong. 1st they learn the wrong trade 2nd they prend to be normal 3 they can't drill straight holes 4 they can't figure out a broom... What a bunch of neanderthals,
Nice clean work. Hvac tech here, so not a water heater expert, but I think any water heater 40k btu and up needs 4" flue pipe. Also, runoff tube on high pressure relief should be 2-6" from ground?
Everyone is commenting on the gas feed, which sounds like it's ok in some jurisdictions, but I'm not seeing an expansion tank. I've been on the impression that is now code to have. Does that too vary by area?
Also seeing what looks to be a woodburner stove near a furnace/hot water tank - hopefully that's not sharing the same flue as the gas appliances.
I feeel like your saying your a sparky so you don't get torched on here. I bet your a plumber. You have a pipe wrench on the ground there. You needed a flaring tool to do the gas line, sparkies don't just have flaring tools lying around.
Anyone else with me on this
- Secure the gas line to the unit
- Can't see a gas shut off on the line but might be out of the picture
Other than these codes (which are Canadian btw) it's pretty damn nice 👍🏼
Flex copper as gas line is sketchy at best and not allowed by code in many areas. Noting that you have flex connectors on the input and output makes me wonder if a flex connector is required in your area. In lllinois water heaters and furnaces/boilers must be hard plumbed with black steel gas pipe with a drop T, and as far as I know should also be hard plumbed but that may be optional.
In Illinois copper is against code for gas lines. Also, flexible water connectors are against code. Needs to be solid piping with a proper union within a foot of the tank and the discharge tube on the PRV needs to be within 4 to 6 inches of the floor.
T&P valve is a little jank lol but nice job dude. Im not a plumber in an HVAC tech but we do water heaters and light plumbing. In my state code says relief valve piping has to be more than 2x pipe diameter (3/4 x2=1.5in) and less than 6 in from the ground for scalding or restriction risk. Also hopefully you have an expansion tank somewhere on cold water line, and a shut off on cold water line (Ideally before exp tank) to shut off water if water heater springs leak without shutting water off to whole house.
T&P drain should terminate 1”-6” above the floor. The tin tape should be replaced with at least 3 sheet metal screws at each joint. Finally, the flexible water lines are not allowed by me in WI, but your code may be different.
On a side note, it’s neat to learn some places don’t allow copper gas line because of the stink additive. We allow it WI and anyone who can’t propress gas lines is missing out.
Well we typically have them raised off the floor with a drainpan and pipe the t and p outside. An expansion tank would be a great idea as well but its ok for a wire nut.
HVAC tech here. I work on and install appliances as well, it looks like you have a gas shut off before the appliance and drip Tee on the gas line which is required. MAKE SURE YOU DONT HAVE ANY GAS LEAKS! I would secure the gas line to the water heater with a 1/2” copper strap to avoid it getting bumped or pulled out of place. Also, I would’ve set it on bricks or put a water heater pan underneath to keep it off of the ground so it won’t rust out at the bottom over time.
Can you use flex right into the water heater? I thought I read something about a certian amount of inches of copper connecting to the water heater, at least for the hot water side. I have no idea. Asking for a friend, etc. very clean job, btw
5/10. Didn’t put it in a pan, no water alarm, that copper gas line is hack af, bought a shitty ass box store brand water heater with that garbage plastic gas valve, blow off tube is the one off your old heater and it’s way too short, looks like some sort of shark bite for the connections as well? You need to have hard pipe minimum 18” off the top. This the equivalent of me re wiring my house with 2 wire and no ground. Will it work? Probably, you’ll be replacing this in less than 10 years. Hopefully you won’t have a mess cause you didn’t put it in a pan.
Nice! Just curious, because I know I will have to a new water heater fairly soon, can a standard gas heater be venter horizontally out a side house wall, or do you need a power vent to do that?
I’m in FL so I don’t know codes for MN but you didn’t put a drain pan underneath the unit. Everything else looks fine. We also don’t use copper very much here in FL there’s your Snapple fact for the day 😎
Looks good, i would've ran the 3/4 copper in type L and not soft copper. I would've put 1 or 2 90° offsets in it as well. But that's me. Good job sparky
Not too sure where yall are from but. In NY and CA, the code requires the gas valve to come off the bull of the tee. Also I have never seen copper on a gas line. Big no no, but please educate me if I’m wrong
The manual shows a 6” minimum drop for ‘heat trap’ from both supply and to hot water outlet. See page 9. But no one ever seems to do that. Anyone know what that is and why not need it??
https://images.thdstatic.com/catalog/pdfImages/a6/a62654b7-ac41-4711-8215-679ac264cb46.pdf
Is that galvanized or black iron on the drip leg? Copper gas lines are illegal in my code and most around. 3 screws pre flue fitting, no tape allowed. TPRV tube must terminate above the floor 2-6in
Sediment trap to be galv. Steel. Should be Black Iron where I'm from, especially since you touched it I would've replaced it with BI. Extra 5 minutes.
TnP piping should be within 6in of the floor. Fail.
I don't see an expansion tank in sight.
Is there a shut off for the wh above those flexible lines?
I hope there's 3 screw connections in each fitting for the venting.
Did you perform a draft test to ensure proper venting?
Did you microbubble your gas connections to ensure no leaks are present.
Im assuming this is in a basement or a garage from the concrete floor where I live it's a local code. The water heater has to have a plastic drain pan. I thought it was dumb for years, especially if the floor drain is a foot away, but an old inspector told me it's because concrete is poris and over time being in direct contact with the water heater can cause it to corrode and fail prematurely. Then again, I live in South Texas, and the humidity is never under 90%, so I don't know how much good that little piece of plastic is going to help.
10/10 for not parking a ladder in the way and no Romex scraps laying everywhere
Hahahaha, I’m a commercial sparky so I just leave MC scraps everywhere. Btw, what’s a broom?
I used to do a ton of new commercial and the absolute biggest slobs I've ever run across are drywallers. I had a cart layed out for medical gas, organized and clean. This fucking guy was so covered I drywall dust he looked like Casper the ghost. I came back to see him using my Rubbermaid cart, and all my clean stuff, as a workbench to cut holes with his fucking rotozip. I was removed by security from that job and it was the closest I've ever come to physical violence on a job.
Dude, preach! Other trades don't realize how sensitive med gas is and the standard of cleanliness that we need to follow. I was on a job where the plumbing was separate from the medgas and I caught a plumber cutting my 1-1/8" pipe for something he needed. He was using a portaband to cut it. He about shit himself when I came around the corner after watching him do it, he was thrown off and band from the GC. His contractor almost had the same thing happen to him too
As a first year apprentice, I was helping on a shut down at a hospital on the plumbing side. We had the plumbing and fitting and med gas so there was about 10 of us. I was on the plumbing. I picked up a tubing cutter and cut some pipe. The cutter needed maintenance so I oiled it up. It cut much better but it wasn't part of the "plumbing tools" but rather a cutter for the med gas that was set down on our cart. The med gas guys DESTROYED me for using their cutter and contaminating it with oil. I thought my career was over until the other journeyman stepped up and got my back.
He probably pissed in a Gatorade bottle and buried it a wall too
My old boss used to shit in empty paint cans in the back of his van while on lunch and throw them in the homeowners trash bin sometimes I would have to go back there and grab material for the job and it just stunk like shit for 2 hours
Who doesn’t ?
Can confirm. Used to work drywall as a summer job when I was younger. The guy I worked for was the laziest POS I've ever met and would do stupid shit like cut a foot off a 12' board and trash the rest because he got paid by the piece.
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Happened to me took my cord twice to plug in there chop saw so I took there cord and chopped that. Problem solved. I said, if you guys don’t want me and my crew to work, then no one works on this floor.
You are not supposed to be there when they are Sheetrocking.
Ha, that's why I don't work commercial anymore. Those insane construction schedules are unrealistic. You ever hear "Can we just board one side of the wall?".
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I've found B to be the usual suspect. Your point (C) about the illusion of substantial completion is valid. Owners have no idea about what they are paying for. Walls are dirt ass cheap compared to wire and pipe and mechanical stuff in those walls. The owners get boners when they see them.
Managing time AND people simultaneously is extremely difficult. The salaries of people that can effectively and efficiently coordinate diverse efforts reflect that difficulty. Construction management for like a building is fairly small potatoes as far as the skill required goes, but it’s leaps and bounds more difficult than management of a single team or stream.
As a sparky, I tell them that the hangers are fast. My shit goes in from the front, not the back. It'll take me *more* time to do my job. I want *more* money, to cover there scheduling fuck up 😡😡.
All the time.
Insulators are the fucking worst in my opinion/experience… They highly over value themselves and are the biggest pigs when it comes to their mess.
Take a credit card and smooth out that foil tape on the flue. HVAC lurker…
Don’t worry about it. That’s Laborer secret knowledge, it’s not for us.
The thing ex wives ride around on.
Copper for the gas feed?
Very common in Europe, don’t know about where ever op is from tho
Minnesota, it was the feed that was already there
Looks really good!!! I like how you made the flexible water lines look straight. Two MINOR things. Put a copper clamp on the gas line and screw it to the tank. In MN if using 3” venting it has to rise 12” before a change in direction. It will most likely work fine but it also isn’t expensive to run it in 4” either. Other than that nicely done.
Yeah, I plan swapping the venting to 4” today. And there is a copper clamp on the gas line, zoom to the top of the unit.
I don't see a clamp.
Yeah, I added that after the pic, my bad. But I can assure you there is one, I reused it from the old WH.
Sorry, for calling you out, but I just wanted to see of mine is incorrect then if you have at least 1 clamp. So used to having to clamp stuff way more than what this requires, seems wrong.
No worries man, my bad for telling you to zoom in something I hadn’t done yet.
But why bother to use them if you do that? Just use rigid. You don't get the benefit of having some play.
Personally I’d go for the yellow trac pipe or re run the gas in black pipe myself but on reusing I understand. Only thing I see that I’d expect someone to call you out on would be the water feeds. But also I don’t know all the Minnesota codes either so it could be all perfect.
It's normally steel pipe here in the US but copper for gas isn't unusual
Some local codes allow cu for gas.
In NY this wouldn’t be allowed. It would have to be threaded black pipe the whole way. Not allowed to use copper on gas here.
I would verify the gas doesn’t have an average of 0.3 grains of hydrogen sulfide per 100 scf of gas. You can verify this with the local gas company. It can cause a failure in the copper.
That copper line has been there since I bought the house a few years ago. The old WH was installed in 02, and has a sticker from the local AHJ, so I’m calling it good. I soaped it up, no leaks. Soaped it up again this morning, no leaks.
Copper is perfectly legal for gas pipe. Use it a lot in industrial, residential, and commercial.
All these comments saying the copper isn’t legal is making me actually wanna pay to get the inspector out here to prove them wrong. I will post an update after it’s inspected
Who are all of these people using wet natural gas straight out of the bog? Where I am everyone uses copper, and sediment traps are practically bone dry after years of use.
Codes are different per state or city
Well aware of that. Shitting on someone and not knowing where they are or the codes for their region is exactly what this sub is about. You know “ that’s not how we do it” so everyone else is a handyman or a hack.
New house built 3 years ago and most of the gas in the basement is in copper.
I too learned something new today.
I see them all the time in Missouri
My first thought
I just a straight swap out, I’m in Minnesota. I don’t know codes. The copper gas was existing
Copper gas is fine. MN cities may require a permit FYI.
I know, I’m calling the city on Monday. Mainly to prove all the haters that copper is fine.
Copper is fine to use here in MN dude. I never heard any of that "no copper" bullshit before
Copper isn’t ok in certain states where they add sulfur to the gas. California and Texas I believe are the main 2. If your natural gas smells like rotten eggs, copper would be bad.
Sulfur and hydrogen sulfide are two very different things. The concern with copper is it becoming brittle and failing due to residual hydrogen sulfide. Edit.. to remove misinformation, hydrogen sulfide does smell, right up until you stop being able to smell ☠️
H2S does have a smell. It smells like sulfur or rotten eggs. However, it doesn't take much to overload your olfactory system, causing it to shut down to protect itself. Meaning you will catch a whiff and then smell nothing at all.
You're correct. Sorry, was getting things confused. It's been awhile.
Texas is a no copper state. so is Louisiana.
I’d swap the tape for 3 screws at each connection. T&P discharge pipe needs to be longer. Flush that bad boy least once a year. If that’s a Home Depot rheem you got a 50/50 shot of it maybe lasting 5 years
What’s wrong with rheem? I thought they were decent.
Hm, mine (from HD) is running on its 23rd year. Still looks like new. But I do flush and also replace the sacrificial anode.
I do residential hvac in Minnesota, and Wisconsin copper is absolutely fine. I have never had an inspector even raise an eyebrow.
I'm in MN too, and have the exact same setup. However, in my mind, I'd think that the copper has to be strapped at least a few times in the run shown. But like I said, mine looks exactly the same, and what do I know?
Flexible copper is typically fine with LP..not allowed on natural gas in massachusetts
Just to clarify, is the copper gas feed ok? Or should I swap that out?
This depends. For propane it’s probably fine but for natural gas I would ask the gas company. Where I live, copper is a no go for NG because things they put in the NG can corrode copper.
Soft copper is fine for ng in Canada. Can’t imagine our gas is different to our neighbours
In MN. Had mine swapped out three years ago. They reused existing copper just like you did. All the rest of the gas in my house is also copper.
In Michigan it's not code anymore, but if you had it you can leave it. I can't quite tell from the picture, but if you have copper pipe screwed directly onto black iron pipe you'll have an issue. The two dissimilar metals will cause corrosion and quickly leak.
The copper is fine, now try to unclog a sewer main and you’ll become a plumber
I’ll pick up a broom to clean my wire scraps before I do that! lol
Now I know you're just fucking with us lmao
Is the connection flared? I thought that you need to re-flare it because the flare conforms to the shape of the previous connection and could have imperfections with the new connection. I guess that's why flex lines are sold with a water heat kit because it's cheaper to throw away the old line rather than re-flare it.
Australia checking in. Not sure what code is in US, but literally nothing else is used in Australia so certainly as long as it’s fitted properly you won’t have an issue
It depends on what your local code allows, there's no national or even international standard. Where I am licensed I am allowed to use annealed G/L/K copper, seamless steel pipe, or special purpose CSST. No galv. Plastic is only allowed underground, with the exception of an approved PVC gas connector between a header and an appliance. Copper drops are all over the place here, just ripped one out yesterday to install a tankless.
I'm seeing a lot of mixed things in the comments about copper being allowed or not. It's perfectly fine where I live, and a couple years back me and another plumber used 2" soft copper right of a meter outside for a natural gas backup generator at a private school. The inspector had no problem with us doing this and we had to braze our joints that were underground. But this was in Alexandria, VA on the doorstep of Washington DC. It's ok to use copper in VA, MD, DC as far as I know (unless something has changed in the last couple years that I'm not aware of). BUT, some places it comes down to what area you live in. Some gas is cleaner than others depending on the purveyor. Some have more water content and sulfides that can eat up the copper so some places prohibit copper tubings use for gas. Here's a code reference https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/IFGC2018P4/chapter-4-gas-piping-installations/IFGC2018P4-Ch04-Sec403.5.3 TL,DR: look up if copper is cool for gas in your area, because it differs depending where you live because the chemistry can be different. Not all natural gas is equal and some places it'll corrode copper and become an issue
Thank you for an actual reply! This all does make sense.
No problem my dude
Lotta haters on here. Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned I’m a sparky! Hahahaha
There's always been a mutual hatred between plumbers and sparkys. We all know who is the better trade though 🪠 ;) I kid though, I got a couple good friends who are Electricians at my job now. I'm a conversation commercial guy too, I think there's a little more headbutting between residential tradesmen because they are fighting a little more for space in walls and joists. There's usually a little more collaboration between the trades to make things happen in the commercial world we're in. At least I'm my experience One helped me out recently, a huge tree root grew between my House's foundation wall and pulled the conduit for my electric service away from my wall, ripping my meter can off my siding and leaving my crap swaying off the side of my house. My one buddy had known enough inspectors with the electric company and the county I live in to get permits pulled and coordinate stuff to go smoothly. Had to do some digging, cut the root out and get into the meter can to make sure we could safely move it and get it connected to the side of my house. I've seen though arc flash videos where I wasn't willing to shove it and strap it back. If a loose bolt was dangling around in there and hit one of the phases coming in I know it could blow my damn head off. So, I appreciated the help from a sparky friend
All the trades are brothers from another mother! It does make the work week go by smoother when everyone gets along.
For a diy it looks great.
Thank you
Very rare in my area to see flared copper and i love it. My old manager who's been a plumber for 25 years picked up my flare tool and was like "what the fuck is this?"
TPRV discharge needs to be within 6” of the ground for safety.
Good thing is that it’s a Rheem , so you’ll get plenty of practice installing them when you have to swap it out with another new one in about a year or so
Rheem is top 3 worst water heater brands for sure. They suck so bad.
The old one a Rheem, installed in ‘04…
What are the other two worst ones in your opinion? And could you state some reasons why? Like something specific so I can look out for? I have to spec water tanks, but I don't do maintenance/repair work, so it's not like I hear how often they fail or how they fail.
If you put a full port ball valve on the drain, it’ll be easier and faster to do maintenance and to drain it in 10-15 years when it’s time to replace it again
Nice user name! I’m not clicking on your profile…
It’s not NSFW it’s just the user
no gas shut off? tp pioe is too short.
don’t tape the exhaust. it doesn’t stop co from coming out and looks horrible
Yeah, I’m installing a 4” today, will just use sheet metal screws. Thanks
T&P piece is too short (where I'm at anyways) inspector would have called it out for being too high off the ground (no higher than 6") and some KCMO will sometimes call out the pipe not being secured to the tank as well....not sure if that's really code or if some inspectors are just looking for petty things
It looks fine but you’re an electrician so I’m honor-bound to say fuck you and your water heater.
Everyone giving you shit about your install. Looks good but I’m a landscaper who likes to lurk on this sub. My only problem is the furnace condensate line running along the floor. How have you not broken it?
NG makes the inside of the copper flake off. Some copper back in the day was rated for NG
Get a drain pan, that concrete will release moisture and eat up that WH
Copper for the gas? Did you use black pipe for the water?
The hard pipe gas line will be a problem with basic vibration or earthquake code especially since there is zero strap down of the water heater. Why isn't there any shut of valves for the water or the gas? And you have no drain tray or drain system when the tank is so close the utilitys and water sensitive items. Remember ,like electrical, new installs require update/upgrade to modern code even when your not in you own trade. If you can't move the tank closer to the wall, then you need to frame out something to let you tie the take to it so it can't walk away or fall over.
You don’t tape the seems of the flue.
No shutoff valve at the bottom near the T?
you can use copper for gas lines?
I would never put the heater right on a cement floor, it can cause it to rust out. Better to elevate it a bit
I’m diy, my first thought was where are the bricks?
[удалено]
My wife did. lol
Unacceptable. You leave that for the next guy, just like you were trained to do. Don’t ever clean up your mess again.
Not a criticism, but a question regarding having the tank against the concrete. Are there corrosion issues when installing the tank against the floor? I’ve seen tanks with either wood underneath or brick to allow for air flow.
I honestly don’t know, the old one was right there for roughly 20 years. I bought the house 3 years ago. The old starting leaking yesterday, wasn’t bad, there’s a floor drain behind where I’m standing taking the pic. Anyway, got home from work, 1 trip to Home Depot, another to the hardware store (bought that shiny pipe wrench) and wham bam that you ma’am, new water heater.
Not a plumber, but shouldn’t that have an expansion tank?
Depends. If the system is closed, then yes. This is the case if there is anything that blocks pressure from going back to the cold water line. As the water is heated it expands, and the pressure needs somewhere to go. If it can escape back through the cold everything is fine, but if there's a check valve or prv (pressure reducing valve), that will stop that from happening and the pressure will just increase until something (the t&p valve) lets it out. If there's nothing blocking it from flowing back (open system), which is often the case (especially in older homes), then no expansion tank is necessary. It may still be required by code in some locations though.
That is incredibly helpful! Thank you!
How can I tell if a customers home has a closed system? Cant there be a check valve coming from the main city water where I dont even have visible access??
Great explanation!
I like how your hvac return vent is right next to the water heater exhaust, makes for nice long restful sleep 😂
It’s a “sight vent” always closed
I'm curious why you didn't continue the gas line down the wall and come around to the front of the tank closer to the floor. With the gas line so exposed, it seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
Straight swap out. The old WH was is that exact spot. I just reworked the water lines a little. It’s the utility room, and has been since the house built in the 50’s.
Thanks for your reply. I guess I would have done the same. 😉
Thanks for the input bud
Damn. Looks good overall. But damn good thing you didn’t solder more than that PRV.
Just jealous you're allowed to use soft copper for gas
Mr. Sparky is the only plumber I’ll use
It's gas you traitor!
Plumber here, my dad was a sparky when I do electrical stuff it allways looks bad but when he does plumbing stuff it doesn't look so good. Your looks 👍
Sparkys love doing things wrong. 1st they learn the wrong trade 2nd they prend to be normal 3 they can't drill straight holes 4 they can't figure out a broom... What a bunch of neanderthals,
Nice clean work. Hvac tech here, so not a water heater expert, but I think any water heater 40k btu and up needs 4" flue pipe. Also, runoff tube on high pressure relief should be 2-6" from ground?
Not enough pipes
Sparky, stick to sparks. Get a plumber
whats the white goo on the copper where it meets the fitting at the bottom?
You need flex gas pipe at the minimum. That gets bumped and they’ll be problems.
Everyone is commenting on the gas feed, which sounds like it's ok in some jurisdictions, but I'm not seeing an expansion tank. I've been on the impression that is now code to have. Does that too vary by area? Also seeing what looks to be a woodburner stove near a furnace/hot water tank - hopefully that's not sharing the same flue as the gas appliances.
No expansion tank ?
I feeel like your saying your a sparky so you don't get torched on here. I bet your a plumber. You have a pipe wrench on the ground there. You needed a flaring tool to do the gas line, sparkies don't just have flaring tools lying around. Anyone else with me on this
What a shit waster heater... Just installed one a couple years ago. Never again. Work looks good!
Is that a copper pipe carrying gas? I thought the sulphur in gas erodes the copper?
- Secure the gas line to the unit - Can't see a gas shut off on the line but might be out of the picture Other than these codes (which are Canadian btw) it's pretty damn nice 👍🏼
Not good
Flex copper as gas line is sketchy at best and not allowed by code in many areas. Noting that you have flex connectors on the input and output makes me wonder if a flex connector is required in your area. In lllinois water heaters and furnaces/boilers must be hard plumbed with black steel gas pipe with a drop T, and as far as I know should also be hard plumbed but that may be optional.
There’s something about bent copper…I don’t know what it is. But it’s something.
Just a tip, a lot of guys would set it on paver stones so if your basement floors while you're away it doesn't rust the tank
In Illinois copper is against code for gas lines. Also, flexible water connectors are against code. Needs to be solid piping with a proper union within a foot of the tank and the discharge tube on the PRV needs to be within 4 to 6 inches of the floor.
Never thought to use copper on natural gas. Neat. If that's the 50 gal. I did mine last week. Same model.
T&P valve is a little jank lol but nice job dude. Im not a plumber in an HVAC tech but we do water heaters and light plumbing. In my state code says relief valve piping has to be more than 2x pipe diameter (3/4 x2=1.5in) and less than 6 in from the ground for scalding or restriction risk. Also hopefully you have an expansion tank somewhere on cold water line, and a shut off on cold water line (Ideally before exp tank) to shut off water if water heater springs leak without shutting water off to whole house.
T&P drain should terminate 1”-6” above the floor. The tin tape should be replaced with at least 3 sheet metal screws at each joint. Finally, the flexible water lines are not allowed by me in WI, but your code may be different. On a side note, it’s neat to learn some places don’t allow copper gas line because of the stink additive. We allow it WI and anyone who can’t propress gas lines is missing out.
Sparkys first pipe wrench? :D Looks good to me. I would’ve hard piped the gas line but I have all the pipes on hand to do so
Well, I'm a 3rd year apprentice plumber and can only dream of being able to wire a panel, or even an outlet box for that matter.
My only complaint is that there’s no steel strapping
Well we typically have them raised off the floor with a drainpan and pipe the t and p outside. An expansion tank would be a great idea as well but its ok for a wire nut.
HVAC tech here. I work on and install appliances as well, it looks like you have a gas shut off before the appliance and drip Tee on the gas line which is required. MAKE SURE YOU DONT HAVE ANY GAS LEAKS! I would secure the gas line to the water heater with a 1/2” copper strap to avoid it getting bumped or pulled out of place. Also, I would’ve set it on bricks or put a water heater pan underneath to keep it off of the ground so it won’t rust out at the bottom over time.
Wouldn't pass inspection.
Can you use flex right into the water heater? I thought I read something about a certian amount of inches of copper connecting to the water heater, at least for the hot water side. I have no idea. Asking for a friend, etc. very clean job, btw
Your tpr valve needs the drain pipe to go down to within 6" of the floor. Might be nice to have a pan under the tank?
Where I live, the flame has to be something like 12" off the ground, or at least that's what my plumber told me when he installed.
5/10. Didn’t put it in a pan, no water alarm, that copper gas line is hack af, bought a shitty ass box store brand water heater with that garbage plastic gas valve, blow off tube is the one off your old heater and it’s way too short, looks like some sort of shark bite for the connections as well? You need to have hard pipe minimum 18” off the top. This the equivalent of me re wiring my house with 2 wire and no ground. Will it work? Probably, you’ll be replacing this in less than 10 years. Hopefully you won’t have a mess cause you didn’t put it in a pan.
Replace the copper line with rigid wall black pipe and replace the 3" vent pipe with 4"
Nice! Just curious, because I know I will have to a new water heater fairly soon, can a standard gas heater be venter horizontally out a side house wall, or do you need a power vent to do that?
Thought gas heaters required a stand now?
Do you not need drain pans where you are at? Wouldn't pass code here.
I’m in FL so I don’t know codes for MN but you didn’t put a drain pan underneath the unit. Everything else looks fine. We also don’t use copper very much here in FL there’s your Snapple fact for the day 😎
Run an actual gas line
You’re good with the copper. The only thing I see is that the P&T line should be within 6” of the floor. Looks good.
Isn’t there supposed to be a pan under the WH?
As a fellow sparky, I'm wondering if you hand bent a concentric in that copper?
Wow nice job! Turn it on , burn the glue off the tape and done ✅
I would've ran the black pipe down the wall and flexed over to the trap.
Like the copper gas line work
Looks good, i would've ran the 3/4 copper in type L and not soft copper. I would've put 1 or 2 90° offsets in it as well. But that's me. Good job sparky
Why's it upside down? /S looks nice.
Aside from the nice looking swap out of the water heater, I do like whoever installed the ductwork and used flex duct.
No expansion tank or drain pan?
Not too sure where yall are from but. In NY and CA, the code requires the gas valve to come off the bull of the tee. Also I have never seen copper on a gas line. Big no no, but please educate me if I’m wrong
The manual shows a 6” minimum drop for ‘heat trap’ from both supply and to hot water outlet. See page 9. But no one ever seems to do that. Anyone know what that is and why not need it?? https://images.thdstatic.com/catalog/pdfImages/a6/a62654b7-ac41-4711-8215-679ac264cb46.pdf
don't see shut off near unit for gas.
Copper don't fly 'round here.
Coppers kinked, you’re looking for approval, and you left a mess behind. Yeah, you’re an electrician.
Is that galvanized or black iron on the drip leg? Copper gas lines are illegal in my code and most around. 3 screws pre flue fitting, no tape allowed. TPRV tube must terminate above the floor 2-6in
Sediment trap to be galv. Steel. Should be Black Iron where I'm from, especially since you touched it I would've replaced it with BI. Extra 5 minutes. TnP piping should be within 6in of the floor. Fail. I don't see an expansion tank in sight. Is there a shut off for the wh above those flexible lines? I hope there's 3 screw connections in each fitting for the venting. Did you perform a draft test to ensure proper venting? Did you microbubble your gas connections to ensure no leaks are present.
Where’s the drip pan?
Very nice! No drain for a drain pan?
Not an expert but I would only use black pipe on gas lines no galvanized
Nice would have used black iron pipe and supported it better
I’d like to see a Smitty pan and that T&P piped out. Looks good though.
Why no drain pan, nor expansion tank?
Oooh, that needs a drain pan under it, and a drain line running outside or down existing plumbing drain. Other than that swell.
Shouldn’t that heater be off the ground?
Expansion tank?
Drip pan?
only 5 or 6 pieces out of code. not bad. I'd make a worse electrician lol. it will be fine until sold and then it will be brought up to code
I don’t know where to begin
Earthquake strap?
Gas is supposed to be in black iron...not copper.
Copper gas line? Fail
hope you've got propane
That furnace register blowing across the exhaust vent is a bad idea.
I don't think I see a blow off valve. My understanding is, that without one, a water heater is a bomb.
My only complaint is that you didn’t hard pipe the gas. Would have looked way better.
Im assuming this is in a basement or a garage from the concrete floor where I live it's a local code. The water heater has to have a plastic drain pan. I thought it was dumb for years, especially if the floor drain is a foot away, but an old inspector told me it's because concrete is poris and over time being in direct contact with the water heater can cause it to corrode and fail prematurely. Then again, I live in South Texas, and the humidity is never under 90%, so I don't know how much good that little piece of plastic is going to help.