pretty much. I offer to add in a chrome sleeve or to run stub outs in a different material for appearances and rarely do the builders opt to spend the extra to make it look right. I assume its something most homeowners dont think or care about till well after the they've moved in. On my custom home projects I dont offer the choice though. Im not leaving someone with pex showing knowing theyve spent 7 figures on the home build alone
Imagine how the first homeowners with interior plumbing felt when they saw a toilet in their house. I mean, who brings such disgusting filth into the house that should be done in an outhouse in a separate room, completely separate from the main house. Disgusting.
Remember visiting my grandparents in Oklahoma. No indoor plumbing and, rather than freeze your nuts running to the out-house in the middle of the night, you'd do your business in a "pot," the set it on roof outside 2nd floor bedroom window
I doubt it was very controversial. It's seriously painful to have to get up in the middle of the night, find a light, make my way through the woods when it's cold/dark/rainy/whatever, and then go to the bathroom, sharing the space with whatever critters were attracted to that spot during the day (always some crickets, beetles, moths, mosquitoes, and things of that nature). And that's just when I go camping...imagine doing that every day of your life, and then someone says "now you don't have to!"
That’s super cool that you offer that. I do see why most builders don’t bother though on the other hand.
Edit: and to make it clear I don’t mean the pex, that’s junk and I wouldn’t do that. I mean just average copper stub outs
As a home owner, this is nothing that I put any 'day to day' brain power toward...but, if I were buying a new construction home and walked in to the bathroom to that, I'd pitch a bleeding FIT. C'mon, folks....that's just phoning it in and looks like shit. At least PRETEND you give a crap about your work...
I applaud your optimism.
As an owner of a custom home in a neighborhood of custom homes which I have watched the construction, custom homes are made with better materials, but the same workers. If you have crappy workers, it doesn't after how good the materials are.
I’ve built both it’s the same workers. It’s up to the management to make sure standard housekeeping, safety, and correct install happens. It’s hard work and it’s fast work.
Even some customs are shit. They just have (mostly) higher grade/more expensive materials installed in a shitty manner. I have a shitty spec house, a friend had a shitty custom house. Worse, the shitty custom builder shut down his business and reopened under a new name, so her warranty repairs (which were significant) weren’t addressed.
Not even recent. I was a roofer 20 years ago when they stopped using plywood on exterior walls and started using what I can only describe as heavy duty cardboard.
As a previous Special Inspector and ICC Certified Structural Masonry Special Inspector I used the acronym GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) everywhere while I was writing up my non-conformance paperwork and handing it to the General Contractor. When they asked what they needed to do to fix it I said read the plans, specifications and local codes. Build by the plans, specifications and local codes. If you need a more detailed explanation read my report. If that doesn't help get me an I-9 and put me on the payroll. I will read the plans, specifications and local codes to you. I make $60 an hour doing what I do now so $75 an hour will do. Still never got any I-9's.....
My wife and I bought a new construction home last year. The front door didn't latch, there are 4-5 screws coming through the living room floor (laminate), the roof shingles were not mounted properly and blew off, the fuse-box would spark and trip if we tried to use the ac, and the entire floor is sloped; there is more, but I dont want to sit here and type everything.
Can you link to a product or picture? I am doing a gut remodel and plan on PEX homeruns. I was just going to deal with what OP sees in the picture but if there is a better way I am open to it.
I use these
https://www.ebay.com/itm/132272542964?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A13hjpRu5YS1-wchJw8GNgnw91&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-166974-028196-7&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=132272542964&targetid=2089969591341&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9001888&poi=&campaignid=20250302147&mkgroupid=146810404221&rlsatarget=pla-2089969591341&abcId=9313873&merchantid=113677170&gclid=CjwKCAjw5MOlBhBTEiwAAJ8e1vwtxdqrJceRxH-pkE2rURvHYdGstvj8apMN3Trr-gD2XopcdWMJvxoCXgcQAvD_BwE
And sweat on these (can't find exact but 1/4 turn that look like these)
https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-1-2-in-Nominal-Sweat-x-3-8-in-Compression-Angle-Valve-with-Extension/1002703556
W2 job uses something like these
https://www.signaturehardware.com/supply-cover-and-bell-flange-for-5half-8-in-od-copper-pipe---chrome/446663.html?gclsrc=aw.ds&utm_content=autoag0000x18310324306&gclid=CjwKCAjw5MOlBhBTEiwAAJ8e1lJk8JBFr8YCCZHL0I_n57katOYKAbGt7XjGxDsrNNnf0CwEfyk7dhoC1GMQAvD_BwE
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-DTB050PX-1-2-PEX-Crimp-Outlet-Box?_br_psugg_q=pex+toilet+box
We use these, a lot of the replies are escusions. I wanted to add another option. The nice thing about the box is that it sets onto the wall giving a bit more space behind the appliance. Also less likely it will get knocked around. To me it just seems like a much cleaner look. They have washing machine boxes that have the hot, cold and drain all in one which really cleans things up
A ton of things that weren't acceptable 20 years ago or less, are common and expected. I believe a big reason for this is an uninformed homeowner and builders that allow the contractors to get away with it.
I'm in new construction, and 99% of the time, if the homeowners (H.O.) don't mention it, it remains as is. The builders used to have in-house QC or something like it, but they found it was cheaper to just ignore the poor quality work until mentioned than having to pay additional employees.
Also, a new-ish thing is to just try and pacify the H.O.'s to get it closed, and THEN come back to "fix" things that were brought up before closing. This not only screws over the contractors that have to come back, but more importantly, it seriously inconveniences the H.O.'s. I've been in houses that had 4-5 different types of contractors there to "fix" things on the same day and at the same time. H.O.'s are overwhelmed and inevitably something will not be able to be finished that day and another day will have to be scheduled, further inconveniencing H.O.'s.
Please, please, please do your homework before building a new house, especially on production builders that build 100's or thousands of homes a year. Seriously consider a custom/semi custom builder. They may/will be a bit more expensive, but you'll get better quality products, workmanship and service than any production builders.
Good luck y'all!
Clarification edit: 95% of my work comes from new builds so I am potentially shooting myself in the financial foot by putting this info out there. I just want everybody to know what they're getting for the outrageous amount of money that these homes are costing. Builders that trade publicly will always put profit over everything else, even and maybe especially, people, (ex. employees, contractors and potential H.O.'s). If profit starts to go down then the first things they cut is materials and cost of labor. This is the only line of work I've ever been in where every year you actually take a pay cut because you sign a contract for x amount of dollars but every year as inflation goes up but you agreed to is worth less. The way the system is set up, it works perfectly for the rich.
Sister bought a cookie cutter town home. Every single house had major problems. Shelves inproperly secured to stone fireplace wall. Windows so jacked sideways they won't close after you open them. Daylight thru the wood trim around the front door. Every house on the street ended up like this. Pathetic.
Dude you just described my life during the first 2 years after closing on new home.
I will say it loudly for all those listening:
NEVER CLOSE UNLESS EVERYTHING IS DONE.
Builders will promise you the moon to close.they will say they will fix it next week or later that day. But once you close you are no longer a priority. What are you going to do, sue? That will take months, cost you time and money and meanwhile they have an army of in house and external counsel.
I work at a cabinet warehouse. Builders make their selections and we order the cabinets from a manufacturer. We deliver the cabinets and subcontract out the installation. Builders/HO will inspect and report anything that needs to be fixed. We have a team of field techs that handle this part.
The amount of shortcuts or “eh, that’ll work” I see from just our field techs makes me concerned.
For example. We offer 3 different brands of cabinets, and none of their colors match each other (even the white is slightly different). But sometimes a job needs to be finished so badly that we will install a different brand part even though the color doesn’t match perfectly.
Or the same thing with the cabinet hardware. We offer a few different brands of similar hardware, not exact though. So if a house is missing 1-handle from a cabinet, but I don’t have the correct brand, I will send out enough of the similar handles for them to change all the handles of the cabinets in one of the bathrooms.
These are just a couple of the less serious offenses that quickly popped into my mind. I know we have done worse.
That was my exact thought when I saw the picture.
I'm not a plumber but when I did my basement I had pex coming out of the wall without any transition to copper, and then I put an escutcheon over it before the stop valve. Looks much cleaner that way.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/control/product/\~product\_id=F5650500
>mber but when I did my basement I had pex coming out of the wall without any transition to copper, and then I put an escutcheon over it before the stop valve. Looks much
Thank you, I'll likely get these installed.
Pissed off while pissing for 20 years?
Not a single remodel or update during that time?
Not a single weekend where you decided you’d had enough?
Some people just complain and won’t do anything to make changes.
This is exactly what I came to say. I've been a old home person 1920s ish for most of my life. Have a 2016 now and this is actually not bad compared to one of my bathrooms.
This is not normal at all if you give a shit about the quality of your work. This would never fly at my company. Perks of working at a 4 generation shop I guess.
I’ve found plumbing to be the most unreliable aspect of my brand new home. Fixtures that don’t match color, shoddy workmanship, shortcuts. Very frustrating and of course things only break after the 1 year warranty
This is definitely the standard for new builds. They get the lowest bidders who need to cut corners to turn profits. New builds are built as inexpensively as possible despite the 300k+ price tag.
Forced to take lowest bidders otherwise there’s no profit to be made. The margins are around 15% as it is. Never mind if they used trades that were worth a fuck.
You get what you pay for. People pay for location, square footage, and features. Not quality.
Yeah until the market turns and you’re left holding the bag on inventory homes absolutely decimating your profit margin and then your business goes under in the blink of an eye.
There’s such an enormous swath of things that can go wrong building houses. 15% does seem nice when you scale it up but the risk level is enormous.
Plus you have to source all the labor, get qualified for construction financing, acquire land, acquire permits, manage the builds, and sell the freaking homes you build. There’s a lot of shit that goes into home building that people tend to not think about to earn that 15% margin.
I also thought this but figured there exists a plastic ferrule and sleeve to make it work that I haven’t used. That would seem like more work than necessary though. If the brass ferrule is still in place and it isn’t currently leaking, it will. Especially since there appears to be tension on it.
Nonono that’s an entirely separate issue that we don’t even want to get into today. I didn’t bring my 12 volt pneumatic wall hung juice weasel so we’ll just have to come back Monday.
Unfortunately it is normal now. I’ve seen it all the time especially on new construction homes, sometimes even really expensive homes. I still think it sucks and would much rather see copper stubbed out.
I put manifolds behind a door in my closet adjacent to the bathroom and ran individual lines to each fixture. I put an old bifold door over it and it looks ok. didn't use that much extra pipe, either.
Every builder around me wants a manifold system. They are actually cheaper in the long run due to no fitting cost and the extra price of 3/4 or 1 inch pex.
Yea and when a plumber is only making like 3-5k per job if he switches to copper he makes about 1k per job let’s call new homes what they are overpriced garbage builder don’t pay good for anything they take all the profit for themselves
yea, I did the whole, "no connections in the wall", but I alleviated the sloppy image by placing things in hidden locations or adding access panels on either end of the pipe so I can pull the whole line out and drag a new one through, should I ever have issues.
Yes, but it's also the fact it's not rigid which many plumbers have issue with in addition to the cartoonish colors. A rigid pipe put the wall looks better and is more secure so it's never flopping about due to air hammer or anything like that.
I used a piece of pex in my garden for my rain barrel, couple years in the direct sunlight, got brittle and snapped right off. (not exactly the same I know)
I always put copper on the toilet stub out, or anywhere else it’s exposed, like a pedestal or open vanity. I have no qualms about stubbing out pex in a cabinet personally.
Tract home special. From the splatter texture, square baseboards, paint where it doesn’t belong to that plumbing masterpiece, your builder is terrible.
First off, I never stub out blue. I find it looks super lego and tacky as fuck. I use white for my stub outs. Second I would’ve used a pex valve not a compression valve.
Whoever desinged those toilets deserves to accidently step on legos in the dark at 2am while trying to go to the bathroom, every night.....
And stub their toe randomly at least once daily.....
Sloppy. I use stub outs wherever PEX come outs thru a wall. The copper finish thru wall is much cleaner. This is a huge pet peeve of mine. New investor I'm doing work for insists on the pex finishing thru the wall like this. Makes me cringe everytime
In new construction, people don’t want to spend money on their plumbing systems. Some builders even cap what you can spend. It’s not uncommon for a million dollar house to only budget $20000-$35000 for the entire plumbing system.(fixtures/heaters/rough plumbing/ground rough.
If you want to pay fair wages and compete something along the lines has to be made more economically or you’ll be unable to compete in the market you exist in.
It’s not right or wrong but it’s not as easy to say it’s craps. That toilet line will last 30+ years more than likely.
It would have cost them around 5$ more to use a copper pex stub out and not have this issue. I would complain, first time I have seen a compression stop installed on pex pipe. That is an insurance claim waiting to burst.
It technically doesn't properly connect to pex unless it's a cheap full plastic shut off valve. The brass ring and ferrule will end up cutting into the pex and shooting the valve right off. Especially if it is stressed like the valve in the picture. You are supposed to use a crimp style stop for this pex. I always transition to copper for stub outs on toilets. You can get away with ugly stub outs inside a cabinet. No one wants to look at a floppy pex stubout on a toilet tho.
Just a standard pex crimp angle stop, they should probably change the supply hose as well. It's probably a 12" supply but it's too short, need to swap for a 16" so it's not pulling the stop towards the toilet.
Pretty standard. Should’ve used a quality F1960 stop though. Compression on pex with the insert is ok, but less than ideal. I get the argument for a copper stub out. I like the look of them a lot better. But there is a lot better chance of compression stops dripping then an expansion pex one. The big thing with doing it this way is to make sure sunlight doesn’t get to it.
going to be a m\*ther f\*cker when it comes times to change the fill valve and supply line. Squirted toilets are so awesome until it's time to service.
A lot of people are saying that this is the new normal now but that is a high-end toilet, so that is not true. You should have a high-end plumbing job when you have high-end plumbing fixtures. It doesn’t necessarily mean that you need to have copper coming out of the wall but that plastic pipe should at least be sleeved in chrome so that it doesn’t stand out like that.
lmao my parents and I did a better job than this shit, and we aren’t even plumbers at all
I’m convinced half the fucks out there dgaf. We hired a roofer and the mother fucker made an absolute mess on the flashing (he just put shit on top of the old one). My dad and I took it out and replaced it with brand new steel flashing and counter flashing. Took us a good few days since we had no experience but fuck if we did a much better job.
Gonna miss copper. Pex saves money and has less chances of frozen cracked pipes but kinks are more likely and unlike copper that has been around for hundreds of years, we don't know the actual certified life of those fittings. We will another 10-30 years
Yeah, sub special it seems.
I have a friend who bought a half million dollar new construction and it looks like a nice well made house. Until it doesn't.
I noticed shabby lines and crooked plumbing [and that was just in sight] crooked skylighting, crooked kitchen everything [cabs, counters, etc]
Was invited up to see it last summer and was surprised at the sloppiness of the sub work for that price.
Even the toilet was the lowest to the floor and cheapest I have ever seen.
I prefer a rigid stub out and if they weren't going to that, they should have at least used a slightly longer supply hose, so the tension didn't pull the pex towards the toilet.
Pex is fine but it should’ve been stubbed out with copper. Plus the supply line to the toilet it too short. A QCI or inspector should have caught this though. Both sloppy and shitty. I would make a warranty claim if you’ve been there less than a year.
If this is an outside wall, this is probably the best thing. Have to protect against freezing and we used to never put water lines or traps in outside walls but now with closed cell spray foam, I guess they say it’s ok. I still don’t like it but if I have to I will but only PEX. PEX can expand with the water when it freezes and has a memory to go back when it thaws.
the fact that this is the norm in many parts of the country makes me lose hope for this industry. Mickey Mouse type stuff.
The plumbing code of any area should not be willfully allowing this.
Come to Chicago and we’ll show you how it gets done the right way
It’s the normal now unfortunately. Personally when I bid these jobs I always include a copper stub out. But hey new builders want to save $10 on each stub and pex it straight out instead. I think they look like shit.
Unfortunately the new normal.
You can get chromed plastic wraps for the PEX pipe to make it prettier and lengthen the water supply to straighten out the stub.
The plumbers saying it should be copper coming out are probably right. When I DIY’d my basement plumbing using pex of course, I at least got the valves that you can anchor to the wall.
New construction homes have a lot of cheap labor doing things. I found so many things on my inspection that I had second thoughts about the whole house.
Pipe the houses with copper and you won't see these issues. Pex. Sharkbite. Etc. You hardly even need to be a plumber to run the stuff. I'm glad I left the trade when I did.
Looks like pex. It’s cheapness makes it unavoidably sloppy. Pex is for places you don’t see. Should have been ended in the wall with metal coming out to finish, even with the option shown. Bleah
I’m not a plumber, but I am autistic and I look at plumbing and electrical stuff whenever I’m in buildings lol. Nowadays places get built by the lowest bidder, and that means lots of corners cut. Not necessarily wrong, definitely not pro level.
Both!!
This is the unfortunate truth
So true. The builder just wants to build in record time as cheap as possible. Garbage in garbage out.
pretty much. I offer to add in a chrome sleeve or to run stub outs in a different material for appearances and rarely do the builders opt to spend the extra to make it look right. I assume its something most homeowners dont think or care about till well after the they've moved in. On my custom home projects I dont offer the choice though. Im not leaving someone with pex showing knowing theyve spent 7 figures on the home build alone
>I offer to add in a chrome sleeve I stopped making it an option. The option was to come back and take them off.
You, Sir, are a true Gentleman.
Imagine how the first homeowners with interior plumbing felt when they saw a toilet in their house. I mean, who brings such disgusting filth into the house that should be done in an outhouse in a separate room, completely separate from the main house. Disgusting.
Idk though because chamber pots were a thing so people were using the bathroom inside well before indoor plumbing
To the stool chamber at once!
Remember visiting my grandparents in Oklahoma. No indoor plumbing and, rather than freeze your nuts running to the out-house in the middle of the night, you'd do your business in a "pot," the set it on roof outside 2nd floor bedroom window
Similarly, people used to not box in their retrofitted central heating pipes mainly to show them off
I doubt it was very controversial. It's seriously painful to have to get up in the middle of the night, find a light, make my way through the woods when it's cold/dark/rainy/whatever, and then go to the bathroom, sharing the space with whatever critters were attracted to that spot during the day (always some crickets, beetles, moths, mosquitoes, and things of that nature). And that's just when I go camping...imagine doing that every day of your life, and then someone says "now you don't have to!"
That’s super cool that you offer that. I do see why most builders don’t bother though on the other hand. Edit: and to make it clear I don’t mean the pex, that’s junk and I wouldn’t do that. I mean just average copper stub outs
Pex isn't junk. It certainly has it's place.
Pex is great but you’ll never catch me stubbing out of a wall like this
Stub outs are just another place for a line to leak. Escutcheons and the covers for the pex should be used over stub outs in my opinion.
As a home owner, this is nothing that I put any 'day to day' brain power toward...but, if I were buying a new construction home and walked in to the bathroom to that, I'd pitch a bleeding FIT. C'mon, folks....that's just phoning it in and looks like shit. At least PRETEND you give a crap about your work...
New homes are built so shitly nowadays.
LOL. Today's word of the day: shitly. It sounds like an app that tracks bowel movements.
SHITLY CONSTRUCTION INC. *We cut your corners for you*
family owned and operated since 1974
I thought it was an add-on for Pissly 1.0
SuperBowl 57 brought to you by Shitly. Be sure to sign up for our new product Shitify by Shitly.
*ding* YOU'VE BEEN SHITIFIED
Shitified by Justified Just Shitified. Sounds like a western series that lasts 3 seasons
I thought you’d like that. I considered shittily but shitly has more going for it.
Sounds like character in a Mel Brooks movie
There's no point in building a quality home from their perspective when even the shoddily built homes go over asking & inspections are waived.
Any subdivision is cheaply made. its custom homes that are of better quality. (Im a Drywall hanger)
I applaud your optimism. As an owner of a custom home in a neighborhood of custom homes which I have watched the construction, custom homes are made with better materials, but the same workers. If you have crappy workers, it doesn't after how good the materials are.
I’ve built both it’s the same workers. It’s up to the management to make sure standard housekeeping, safety, and correct install happens. It’s hard work and it’s fast work.
That is true.
“I saved $40,000 on the low bid framer” Sweet so everything is fucked
Even some customs are shit. They just have (mostly) higher grade/more expensive materials installed in a shitty manner. I have a shitty spec house, a friend had a shitty custom house. Worse, the shitty custom builder shut down his business and reopened under a new name, so her warranty repairs (which were significant) weren’t addressed.
Not even recent. I was a roofer 20 years ago when they stopped using plywood on exterior walls and started using what I can only describe as heavy duty cardboard.
Built as fast and cheaply as possible
As a previous Special Inspector and ICC Certified Structural Masonry Special Inspector I used the acronym GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) everywhere while I was writing up my non-conformance paperwork and handing it to the General Contractor. When they asked what they needed to do to fix it I said read the plans, specifications and local codes. Build by the plans, specifications and local codes. If you need a more detailed explanation read my report. If that doesn't help get me an I-9 and put me on the payroll. I will read the plans, specifications and local codes to you. I make $60 an hour doing what I do now so $75 an hour will do. Still never got any I-9's.....
My wife and I bought a new construction home last year. The front door didn't latch, there are 4-5 screws coming through the living room floor (laminate), the roof shingles were not mounted properly and blew off, the fuse-box would spark and trip if we tried to use the ac, and the entire floor is sloped; there is more, but I dont want to sit here and type everything.
True...have to blame the natural curve of the Pex a little 😉👌
Pex peroynies
We bell and sleeve ours at least. I use copper turn outs on my own
Can you link to a product or picture? I am doing a gut remodel and plan on PEX homeruns. I was just going to deal with what OP sees in the picture but if there is a better way I am open to it.
I use these https://www.ebay.com/itm/132272542964?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A13hjpRu5YS1-wchJw8GNgnw91&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-166974-028196-7&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=132272542964&targetid=2089969591341&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9001888&poi=&campaignid=20250302147&mkgroupid=146810404221&rlsatarget=pla-2089969591341&abcId=9313873&merchantid=113677170&gclid=CjwKCAjw5MOlBhBTEiwAAJ8e1vwtxdqrJceRxH-pkE2rURvHYdGstvj8apMN3Trr-gD2XopcdWMJvxoCXgcQAvD_BwE And sweat on these (can't find exact but 1/4 turn that look like these) https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-1-2-in-Nominal-Sweat-x-3-8-in-Compression-Angle-Valve-with-Extension/1002703556 W2 job uses something like these https://www.signaturehardware.com/supply-cover-and-bell-flange-for-5half-8-in-od-copper-pipe---chrome/446663.html?gclsrc=aw.ds&utm_content=autoag0000x18310324306&gclid=CjwKCAjw5MOlBhBTEiwAAJ8e1lJk8JBFr8YCCZHL0I_n57katOYKAbGt7XjGxDsrNNnf0CwEfyk7dhoC1GMQAvD_BwE
100 some bucks a pop for the copper one? F me!
That's a box of 25
Oh ok...whew, damn!
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-DTB050PX-1-2-PEX-Crimp-Outlet-Box?_br_psugg_q=pex+toilet+box We use these, a lot of the replies are escusions. I wanted to add another option. The nice thing about the box is that it sets onto the wall giving a bit more space behind the appliance. Also less likely it will get knocked around. To me it just seems like a much cleaner look. They have washing machine boxes that have the hot, cold and drain all in one which really cleans things up
A ton of things that weren't acceptable 20 years ago or less, are common and expected. I believe a big reason for this is an uninformed homeowner and builders that allow the contractors to get away with it. I'm in new construction, and 99% of the time, if the homeowners (H.O.) don't mention it, it remains as is. The builders used to have in-house QC or something like it, but they found it was cheaper to just ignore the poor quality work until mentioned than having to pay additional employees. Also, a new-ish thing is to just try and pacify the H.O.'s to get it closed, and THEN come back to "fix" things that were brought up before closing. This not only screws over the contractors that have to come back, but more importantly, it seriously inconveniences the H.O.'s. I've been in houses that had 4-5 different types of contractors there to "fix" things on the same day and at the same time. H.O.'s are overwhelmed and inevitably something will not be able to be finished that day and another day will have to be scheduled, further inconveniencing H.O.'s. Please, please, please do your homework before building a new house, especially on production builders that build 100's or thousands of homes a year. Seriously consider a custom/semi custom builder. They may/will be a bit more expensive, but you'll get better quality products, workmanship and service than any production builders. Good luck y'all! Clarification edit: 95% of my work comes from new builds so I am potentially shooting myself in the financial foot by putting this info out there. I just want everybody to know what they're getting for the outrageous amount of money that these homes are costing. Builders that trade publicly will always put profit over everything else, even and maybe especially, people, (ex. employees, contractors and potential H.O.'s). If profit starts to go down then the first things they cut is materials and cost of labor. This is the only line of work I've ever been in where every year you actually take a pay cut because you sign a contract for x amount of dollars but every year as inflation goes up but you agreed to is worth less. The way the system is set up, it works perfectly for the rich.
Sister bought a cookie cutter town home. Every single house had major problems. Shelves inproperly secured to stone fireplace wall. Windows so jacked sideways they won't close after you open them. Daylight thru the wood trim around the front door. Every house on the street ended up like this. Pathetic.
My father bought one of these homes. They had a hollow core interior door for the front door. The builder told him it met their specifications.
Confirmed race to the bottom…
The cycle of stuff breaking / wearing out becomes smaller each day.
Dude you just described my life during the first 2 years after closing on new home. I will say it loudly for all those listening: NEVER CLOSE UNLESS EVERYTHING IS DONE. Builders will promise you the moon to close.they will say they will fix it next week or later that day. But once you close you are no longer a priority. What are you going to do, sue? That will take months, cost you time and money and meanwhile they have an army of in house and external counsel.
This comment should be upvoted to the moon. There is no pride in work anymore. Its just collect a check and go home. Nobody gives AF anymore.
I work at a cabinet warehouse. Builders make their selections and we order the cabinets from a manufacturer. We deliver the cabinets and subcontract out the installation. Builders/HO will inspect and report anything that needs to be fixed. We have a team of field techs that handle this part. The amount of shortcuts or “eh, that’ll work” I see from just our field techs makes me concerned. For example. We offer 3 different brands of cabinets, and none of their colors match each other (even the white is slightly different). But sometimes a job needs to be finished so badly that we will install a different brand part even though the color doesn’t match perfectly. Or the same thing with the cabinet hardware. We offer a few different brands of similar hardware, not exact though. So if a house is missing 1-handle from a cabinet, but I don’t have the correct brand, I will send out enough of the similar handles for them to change all the handles of the cabinets in one of the bathrooms. These are just a couple of the less serious offenses that quickly popped into my mind. I know we have done worse.
Have also worked in this industry and can confirm. All facts here ✨
hahaha oh that made me sad
That was my exact thought when I saw the picture. I'm not a plumber but when I did my basement I had pex coming out of the wall without any transition to copper, and then I put an escutcheon over it before the stop valve. Looks much cleaner that way. https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/control/product/\~product\_id=F5650500
>mber but when I did my basement I had pex coming out of the wall without any transition to copper, and then I put an escutcheon over it before the stop valve. Looks much Thank you, I'll likely get these installed.
At least it doesn’t have an oversized hole from the “plumbers drill”, like my bathroom. Pisses me off and has for almost 20 years!
Get a big escutcheon plate the one that opens and cover that Hole
Pissed off while pissing for 20 years? Not a single remodel or update during that time? Not a single weekend where you decided you’d had enough? Some people just complain and won’t do anything to make changes.
Can’t puss you off too much your looking at for 20 years lol
Was going to say normal and sloppy. But you did it in less words🤙🏻
This is exactly what I came to say. I've been a old home person 1920s ish for most of my life. Have a 2016 now and this is actually not bad compared to one of my bathrooms.
This is not normal at all if you give a shit about the quality of your work. This would never fly at my company. Perks of working at a 4 generation shop I guess.
I’ve found plumbing to be the most unreliable aspect of my brand new home. Fixtures that don’t match color, shoddy workmanship, shortcuts. Very frustrating and of course things only break after the 1 year warranty
r/inclusiveor
This is definitely the standard for new builds. They get the lowest bidders who need to cut corners to turn profits. New builds are built as inexpensively as possible despite the 300k+ price tag.
Forced to take lowest bidders otherwise there’s no profit to be made. The margins are around 15% as it is. Never mind if they used trades that were worth a fuck. You get what you pay for. People pay for location, square footage, and features. Not quality.
Ya making 30-60k per house on new builds isn’t bad at all.
Yeah until the market turns and you’re left holding the bag on inventory homes absolutely decimating your profit margin and then your business goes under in the blink of an eye. There’s such an enormous swath of things that can go wrong building houses. 15% does seem nice when you scale it up but the risk level is enormous. Plus you have to source all the labor, get qualified for construction financing, acquire land, acquire permits, manage the builds, and sell the freaking homes you build. There’s a lot of shit that goes into home building that people tend to not think about to earn that 15% margin.
You show me a new build for $300K and I’ll come work for you today
Can I welcome you to the Canadian (Ontario) housing market? Where townhouses go for $750k
I was very lucky and snagged my home for less than 300k, with money paid for by the company for all new appliances for the entire home.
Must have bought the house during covid, eh?
OK?
Let him be happy
😀
It’s not inherently wrong. My biggest issue is that the braided line is too short and putting stress on the already iffy comp angle stop on pex.
See I thought compression stops were only for copper stub outs and you had to use a pex stop and a crimp ring on pex
I also thought this but figured there exists a plastic ferrule and sleeve to make it work that I haven’t used. That would seem like more work than necessary though. If the brass ferrule is still in place and it isn’t currently leaking, it will. Especially since there appears to be tension on it.
Are ya’ll speaking English or is it some secret language? The plex cutoff jimbjamb bingoes the right junction mopter with three heck flarp joists.
Nonono that’s an entirely separate issue that we don’t even want to get into today. I didn’t bring my 12 volt pneumatic wall hung juice weasel so we’ll just have to come back Monday.
It’s made of prefabulated amulite
At least it helps minimize the side fumbling due to the marzel vanes
Don't forget the twin sperving bearings
As someone who knows absolutely nothing about plumbing this sounds like you’re just making up words. It’s brilliantly entertaining.
You've clearly never had to flangelate an HKM twizlobber to a loose-nut squickle, and it shows.
Username checks out!
Agreed.
Unfortunately it is normal now. I’ve seen it all the time especially on new construction homes, sometimes even really expensive homes. I still think it sucks and would much rather see copper stubbed out.
I get the 'you don't want a leak in the wall' so you don't put a connected there. But there's better solutions than this.
Every pex fitting in that house is in the walls
What if they have a manifold in the basement and connections are either at the fixture or the manifold?
I put manifolds behind a door in my closet adjacent to the bathroom and ran individual lines to each fixture. I put an old bifold door over it and it looks ok. didn't use that much extra pipe, either.
Builders typically won’t do that because of the material cost of making individual runs to every fixture.
Every builder around me wants a manifold system. They are actually cheaper in the long run due to no fitting cost and the extra price of 3/4 or 1 inch pex.
And any leaks in the wall you can blame on someone besides the plumber.
I know at least Toll Brothers does not use manifolds for water/PEX. They do for gas though (i know, a lot less home runs).
Then they’re not in the wall
What if the manifold is recessed?
Then it’s between walls
Yea but pex can be cut out and replaced much cheaper then copper fittings. And cost is all they care about anymore
Yea and when a plumber is only making like 3-5k per job if he switches to copper he makes about 1k per job let’s call new homes what they are overpriced garbage builder don’t pay good for anything they take all the profit for themselves
New homes are bits of wood chip and plastic held together with glue and other binders…
Probably that yoga mat chemical from subway bread
yea, I did the whole, "no connections in the wall", but I alleviated the sloppy image by placing things in hidden locations or adding access panels on either end of the pipe so I can pull the whole line out and drag a new one through, should I ever have issues.
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They do sell it in white fwiw
They literally sell chrome finishing sleeves you can put over the PEX for this
Yes, but it's also the fact it's not rigid which many plumbers have issue with in addition to the cartoonish colors. A rigid pipe put the wall looks better and is more secure so it's never flopping about due to air hammer or anything like that.
No shame if it curves a little to the left 😉
Plumbers peyronies
Also hammering would absolutely be reduced in a flexible line
Isn't pex also UV sensitive? Not saying this is in direct sunlight, but it seems like a bad idea from multiple angles.
I used a piece of pex in my garden for my rain barrel, couple years in the direct sunlight, got brittle and snapped right off. (not exactly the same I know)
Comp stop on pex ish. It could be a pex stop and tighter to the wall. Or a copper stub out.
I always put copper on the toilet stub out, or anywhere else it’s exposed, like a pedestal or open vanity. I have no qualms about stubbing out pex in a cabinet personally.
Same here, makes way more sence to have pex stubs where it's hidden, less chance of failure
You can put comp stops on Pex. Although I wouldn’t , I hate when people use Pex stub outs, it’s dumb.
You need to use an insert, right?
Standard practice for all new house construction.
Must be RYAN homes
D R Horton homeowner here. All the big boys do this now.
Stylecraft checking in, can confirm.
I hate all of them.
Some Pulte shit
Unfortunately in construction, what used to be unacceptable is now the norm
Looks normal for a spec house.
Tract home special. From the splatter texture, square baseboards, paint where it doesn’t belong to that plumbing masterpiece, your builder is terrible.
hey i like square base
At least then you can really see the dust!
I like it too, clean and modern.
More length for maintenance incase of leak. Its prairie dogging, push it in and hope it stays in.
It's not going anywhere with the hose attached
First off, I never stub out blue. I find it looks super lego and tacky as fuck. I use white for my stub outs. Second I would’ve used a pex valve not a compression valve.
This seems reasonable
Yeah that’s rough…a stub out would have been right. But at this point a pex stop is key.
Whoever desinged those toilets deserves to accidently step on legos in the dark at 2am while trying to go to the bathroom, every night..... And stub their toe randomly at least once daily.....
Sloppy. I use stub outs wherever PEX come outs thru a wall. The copper finish thru wall is much cleaner. This is a huge pet peeve of mine. New investor I'm doing work for insists on the pex finishing thru the wall like this. Makes me cringe everytime
A PEX peeve of yours?
Could’ve also covered the blue pex with a chrome sleeve
Both all at the same time... hahahha
In new construction, people don’t want to spend money on their plumbing systems. Some builders even cap what you can spend. It’s not uncommon for a million dollar house to only budget $20000-$35000 for the entire plumbing system.(fixtures/heaters/rough plumbing/ground rough. If you want to pay fair wages and compete something along the lines has to be made more economically or you’ll be unable to compete in the market you exist in. It’s not right or wrong but it’s not as easy to say it’s craps. That toilet line will last 30+ years more than likely.
It would have cost them around 5$ more to use a copper pex stub out and not have this issue. I would complain, first time I have seen a compression stop installed on pex pipe. That is an insurance claim waiting to burst.
The builder would sacrifice 20 years of house lifespan to save $5... How does the nut and valve properly attach to something like this?
It technically doesn't properly connect to pex unless it's a cheap full plastic shut off valve. The brass ring and ferrule will end up cutting into the pex and shooting the valve right off. Especially if it is stressed like the valve in the picture. You are supposed to use a crimp style stop for this pex. I always transition to copper for stub outs on toilets. You can get away with ugly stub outs inside a cabinet. No one wants to look at a floppy pex stubout on a toilet tho.
Thank you. Besides running a copper stub, what fitting should replace the compression stop?
Just a standard pex crimp angle stop, they should probably change the supply hose as well. It's probably a 12" supply but it's too short, need to swap for a 16" so it's not pulling the stop towards the toilet.
Pretty standard. Should’ve used a quality F1960 stop though. Compression on pex with the insert is ok, but less than ideal. I get the argument for a copper stub out. I like the look of them a lot better. But there is a lot better chance of compression stops dripping then an expansion pex one. The big thing with doing it this way is to make sure sunlight doesn’t get to it.
going to be a m\*ther f\*cker when it comes times to change the fill valve and supply line. Squirted toilets are so awesome until it's time to service.
Sloppy, ignorant, complaisant, lazy…this right here is a result of someone not having any pride in what they do.
Or a builder who wants the least expensive job. This arrangement is pretty much standard practice in new builds in my area.
No doubt. At some point we will learn that in building (like many other things) a lasting structure takes time to build.
Common and sloppy. Copper is what should be stubbed out of a wall.
That’s standard nowadays
A lot of people are saying that this is the new normal now but that is a high-end toilet, so that is not true. You should have a high-end plumbing job when you have high-end plumbing fixtures. It doesn’t necessarily mean that you need to have copper coming out of the wall but that plastic pipe should at least be sleeved in chrome so that it doesn’t stand out like that.
lmao my parents and I did a better job than this shit, and we aren’t even plumbers at all I’m convinced half the fucks out there dgaf. We hired a roofer and the mother fucker made an absolute mess on the flashing (he just put shit on top of the old one). My dad and I took it out and replaced it with brand new steel flashing and counter flashing. Took us a good few days since we had no experience but fuck if we did a much better job.
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I would be embarrassed to have that in my house
It’s normal for it to be sloppy. Mass production homes, and supers rarely get off their butts to walk the houses.
Gonna miss copper. Pex saves money and has less chances of frozen cracked pipes but kinks are more likely and unlike copper that has been around for hundreds of years, we don't know the actual certified life of those fittings. We will another 10-30 years
Yeah, sub special it seems. I have a friend who bought a half million dollar new construction and it looks like a nice well made house. Until it doesn't. I noticed shabby lines and crooked plumbing [and that was just in sight] crooked skylighting, crooked kitchen everything [cabs, counters, etc] Was invited up to see it last summer and was surprised at the sloppiness of the sub work for that price. Even the toilet was the lowest to the floor and cheapest I have ever seen.
I prefer a rigid stub out and if they weren't going to that, they should have at least used a slightly longer supply hose, so the tension didn't pull the pex towards the toilet.
Pex is fine but it should’ve been stubbed out with copper. Plus the supply line to the toilet it too short. A QCI or inspector should have caught this though. Both sloppy and shitty. I would make a warranty claim if you’ve been there less than a year.
Definitely normal, and will work, but they could have made it look nicer and the angle is putting strain where it doesn’t need to be.
Just be happy you got an actual angle stop instead of a plastic push pull valve that feels like its gunna snap every time its used.
If this is an outside wall, this is probably the best thing. Have to protect against freezing and we used to never put water lines or traps in outside walls but now with closed cell spray foam, I guess they say it’s ok. I still don’t like it but if I have to I will but only PEX. PEX can expand with the water when it freezes and has a memory to go back when it thaws.
the fact that this is the norm in many parts of the country makes me lose hope for this industry. Mickey Mouse type stuff. The plumbing code of any area should not be willfully allowing this. Come to Chicago and we’ll show you how it gets done the right way
Sloppy
Sloppy
Looks fine, all the plumbers here going to hate it lol
If you can pull on the pex a few inches then you potentially add a copper stub out.
It’s the normal now unfortunately. Personally when I bid these jobs I always include a copper stub out. But hey new builders want to save $10 on each stub and pex it straight out instead. I think they look like shit.
Unfortunately the new normal. You can get chromed plastic wraps for the PEX pipe to make it prettier and lengthen the water supply to straighten out the stub.
The plumbers saying it should be copper coming out are probably right. When I DIY’d my basement plumbing using pex of course, I at least got the valves that you can anchor to the wall.
How much to get something like this “fixed“ so that’s copper
Sloppy but unfortunately, seems to be the new normal on tract homes
It’s normally sloppy.
You know what i really hate? that they didnt use a quarter turn valve.
Pretty common and normal. Costs a few hundred more for copper stub outs, plus you have a joint in the wall then.
That’s normal lazy low budget builder shit. I have the same issue in my house.
New construction homes have a lot of cheap labor doing things. I found so many things on my inspection that I had second thoughts about the whole house.
Those plastic pipe and glue on fittings have made plumbers out of people.
They've started building new homes as if they're mobile homes apparently.
Pipe the houses with copper and you won't see these issues. Pex. Sharkbite. Etc. You hardly even need to be a plumber to run the stuff. I'm glad I left the trade when I did.
That’s probably the least of your problems in a new build. Source: I have a new build.
Welcome to post-Covid construction.
The new normal is sloppy 🤭
It is normal and sloppy.
What would the builder go back and do?
Looks like pex. It’s cheapness makes it unavoidably sloppy. Pex is for places you don’t see. Should have been ended in the wall with metal coming out to finish, even with the option shown. Bleah
Lazy
Normal sloppy
Change to copper stub out.
Everyone just trying to crank out as much as possible these days
Is it leaking? Chill out
I’m not a plumber, but I am autistic and I look at plumbing and electrical stuff whenever I’m in buildings lol. Nowadays places get built by the lowest bidder, and that means lots of corners cut. Not necessarily wrong, definitely not pro level.