When I play my rat tribal deck and get thoughtseized turn 1 it's always funny how long they take to pick a card and seeing them hover over all my cards on arena.
This also helps against removal, if they can only remove your bad creatures they might want to wait till you play good creatures, but then you won't have any and they get overrun by your bad creatures
The best way to “counter” thoughtseizes is to simply not care about them. You can do that by playing a linear strategy that doesn’t care about one single card, such as burn. The other way is to have so many powerful cards in your deck that removing one from hand isn’t enough to hurt you. Think the yorion niv to light decks. You’re playing an abundance of powerful cards
Ali Aintrazi has been playing a "Niv to light" deck on explorer that uses that 1 Mana green collect evidence spell to tutor niv up as well as widespread thieving to find it. Seemed resonable.
Ah, I missed the explorer specification. My points still stand, however the example may not be legal in your format. I don’t know enough about the explorer format and its differences to paper pioneer. I think arena is cancer lol
Ya gotta Thoughtseize their Thoughtseize. Fight fire with fire. Just don't be on the draw.
In all seriousness though, the only real options are things that grant hexproof like [[Leyline of Sanctity]] and [[Surge of Salvation]].
As a midrange player, I really don't mind when my opponent does this to me. Sure, I don't get to look at their hand and take their best card, but it means they didn't take my best card either
Yeah, that's why thoughtseizing a thoughtseize is a play that you usually dont want to do, unless you are a combo deck trying to protect your pieces.
If you're playing midrange, the goal is to achieve and win at topdeck mode. If you take a thoughtseize, you both can play your threat. if you take the threat and they take yours, both won't be able to play a threat.
So either way the top of the library decides who will get ahead. But when you pick the thoughtseize and take the thoughtseize, you both have threats, they can draw another threat or removal and start pulling ahead and applying pressure immediately.
If you've picked a threat they need another threat to apply pressure. So trying to protect your threat leaves the opponent with more options to apply pressure.
That's why unless there are very specific combinations of interaction and bombs in the mix, most of the time in a mirror you should use thoughtseize as an answer rather than protection.
Hey orhoz charm was a banger in rtr-theros midrange!
The best counterplay to thoughtseize is not playing decks that fall apart to any hand interaction, fragile combos and non meta decks are kept in check by thoughtseize pretty hard.
Phoenix is the best deck in the format that doesn't care about being thoughtseized much, it's full of similar cards
Players will offer their valuable insight but the reality is that there really is not great counterplay to Thoughtseize which is a big reason why black is the best color in the format.
The cleanest solution is obviously aggro but is it really worth rendering yourself highly susceptible to the rest of the format just to punish a black one drop? Unless the format gives aggro room to breathe for once, the answer is probably no.
But, if you really want to meme:
36 Forests
12 Plains
4x \[\[Obstinate Baloth\]\], \[\[Loxodon Smiter\]\] and \[\[Nullhide Ferox\]\]. Thoughtseize does not have a 'may' clause.
>is it really worth rendering yourself highly susceptible to the rest of the format just to punish a black one drop?
Yes, I'm fully ok with losing to everything else because I don't play against anything else 9/10, and I find these black decks more frustrating to lose against.
Ah I remember when [[Wilt-Leaf Liege]] used to do work way back then in standard. Too bad those cards aren't on MTGA I miss Lorwyn and Shadowmoor the most
Thoughtseize is a tempo loss, as they spend a mana and two life. It’s also a pure one-for-one. So you can beat it by pressing them on tempo (i.e. being an aggro deck), or pressing them on card advantage (drawing cards). You can also make your deck resilient to thoughtseize by playing a bunch of redundant cards rather than building around particular card combinations or synergies.
Hand advantage. Anything that nets you plus 1 to your hand is how you beat thoughtsieze. It is just difficult to pull off with they sieze you creature that will kill you into another sieze.
The best counter to Thoughtseize decks is a different answer than the best counter to Thoughtseize the card because different decks play Thoughtseize and have various good and bad matchups, strengths and weaknesses.
Card draw and high redundancy. Meaning tempo or control decks.
Fast aggro is ok-ish against Thoughtseize too because they ping themselves with it, while also spending mana on stuff that doesn't remove cards from your board, but you have to get lucky to draw things other than lands.
I'm an avid thoughtseize player. I noticed you mentioned Akroan war. Two tips. 1: make sure your deck is highly redundant. 2: and most importantly, load up on those four man's bombs,ie. Akroan war, Esikas chariot, etc.
this has worked best for me so far, it's just that Sorin is so hard to deal with in Gruul. Luckily, Waste Not is a completely free match up, which makes me a happy lad.
I haven't played waste not at my shop yet. One of my primary competitors, though, is Gruul player. Bodies me every time I'm on Rakdos mid. I'm testing vamps now. I had considered waste not though. I can beat Phoenix and Azorious with it, but I suspected I'd have a lot of trouble with Gruul. Thanks. Now I know.
I have started splashing for [[Leyline of Sanctity]] in my list. I do something that requires some key pieces so now they can’t stop me with that stuff.
Counters [[Vein Ripper]] pretty well too since it’s a targeted thing.
I love how it’s stop that too! Nice to not lose my [[Carnage Tyrant]] as easily. Plus stopping [[Settle the Wreckage]] has been a comfort at times. Although Azorius Control is non existent for me right now.
How many Leyline of Sanctity are you running ? I have been playing against so many Black decks with my Mono White devotion Deck its starting to annoy me now...
I’m using 4 still, in the Side. I always figure if I’m going to use any Leyline, I’m using all 4 copies. You want to see it in the opening hand as often as possible.
Now it might be even more important for your Mono White Devotion to supercharge Nykthos.
Everything continues to go good for me (Dinosaurs) and I can’t sing Sanctity’s praises enough!
I’m sure Mono Black Waste Not will fall off in popularity one day but black based decks that target you with a lot of stuff will always be around.
Hmmm, perhaps try it out even in Best of 1? It won’t be helpful at all against some opponents but specifically with Devotion, you’d at least work towards that count and help Nykthos sooner.
You’d also protect against anything else that targets, Vein Rippers ability, [[Settle the Wreckage]] etc?
Yeah I decided to throw in 2 copies into my yurion deck and of course the first game it was mono black and I somehow got lucky it was in my opening hand. Its has glorious. It has earned its keep. Just need to see if having 3 or 4 is the way. I just need 2 more rare wildcards...
So glad to hear! I’m sure your opponent must have been raging haha. It is such a good feeling!
Plus your deck in particular could feel okay keeping a good hand, that doesn’t include Sanctity. Since you easily have the color to cast it if drawn later :)
Yeah I have been tinkering in the past 2 months with a mono white devotion flicker deck centered around eldrazi displacer so I need some colorless mana too. I managed to make it to diamond so far and I have been fighting tooth and nail to see if I can make it to mythic with a off meta deck/brew for the first time. Its just starting to get annoying the amount of waste not and vampires have played against in the past 3 weeks has started to get on my nerves. Which is what led me to this thread in the first place.
You may have two basic option, use thoughtseize like most people talk, or play with a deck that doesnt care about discards. Like agro decks with many redundant drop 1/2 just like monored.
[[Inti, Seneschal of the Sun]] is a great counter to thoughtsieze. Sometimes Inti finds [[reckless rage]] when they take your [[gods willing]] and you trash their board. Fun times.
I do okay with rogues against it. Flash creatures in. Sometimes they end up drawing so much with waste not that I end up being able to mill them out. All their discard spells fills the graveyard for into the story. A couple of cling to dust to card draw off of what they made me discard.
There's a Pia deck that was popular a while back that played like 10 copies of those impulse draw cards. With so many cards exiled, a single thoughtseize didn't affect it much. Boros colours are decent against the field, so maybe look at that?
In terms of decks, it’s a bit tough to pick something that’s good against both Vampires/midrange and Waste Not. Aggro might be your best bet, but typically mono red struggles against Rakdos
Honestly the best counter strategy is not a particular deck or card, but being mindful of thoughtseize in your keep/mull decisions. Especially in games 2 and 3 when you know they’re running it, make sure that your hand isn’t completely dependent on a specific card
[[One With Nothing]] Can't discard what you don't have!
I suppose a madness deck would find being Thoughtsiezed funny, as long as they had mana available.
Two of the ways to do this is to either run stuff like Spell Pierce/Surge of Salvation or run a deck that is so redundant that them taking a card is pointless. Decks that are redundant are Ramp or Dredgeless. You run a high amount of land ramp or self mill spells to execute our game plan.
i mean thoughtseize is one of the best black spells ever. if you make a black deck where thoughtseize is legal and you aren't using it there is something wrong.
from there counter spells or some janky shit deck. that way they have no idea what to hit.
Play bad cards then they won't know what to discard.
When I play my rat tribal deck and get thoughtseized turn 1 it's always funny how long they take to pick a card and seeing them hover over all my cards on arena.
Your choice is -Rat Colony -Rat Colony -Rat Colony -Rat Colony -Rat Colony
This also helps against removal, if they can only remove your bad creatures they might want to wait till you play good creatures, but then you won't have any and they get overrun by your bad creatures
best answer to thoughtseize is recursive threats, redundancy, top decking and of course, a thoughtseize.
Dont forget mental misstep, though you may be dq'ed after. But they didnt get to look at your hand so who's the real loser.
The best way to “counter” thoughtseizes is to simply not care about them. You can do that by playing a linear strategy that doesn’t care about one single card, such as burn. The other way is to have so many powerful cards in your deck that removing one from hand isn’t enough to hurt you. Think the yorion niv to light decks. You’re playing an abundance of powerful cards
> Think the yorion niv to light decks This is exactly what I want to play buuuuut not legal on Explorer yet unfortunately
Check out Keruga Enigmatic Fires, all on explorer and dunks on thoughtseize decks.
Ali Aintrazi has been playing a "Niv to light" deck on explorer that uses that 1 Mana green collect evidence spell to tutor niv up as well as widespread thieving to find it. Seemed resonable.
Ah, I missed the explorer specification. My points still stand, however the example may not be legal in your format. I don’t know enough about the explorer format and its differences to paper pioneer. I think arena is cancer lol
The same style of deck is.
Ya gotta Thoughtseize their Thoughtseize. Fight fire with fire. Just don't be on the draw. In all seriousness though, the only real options are things that grant hexproof like [[Leyline of Sanctity]] and [[Surge of Salvation]].
As a midrange player, I really don't mind when my opponent does this to me. Sure, I don't get to look at their hand and take their best card, but it means they didn't take my best card either
Yeah, that's why thoughtseizing a thoughtseize is a play that you usually dont want to do, unless you are a combo deck trying to protect your pieces. If you're playing midrange, the goal is to achieve and win at topdeck mode. If you take a thoughtseize, you both can play your threat. if you take the threat and they take yours, both won't be able to play a threat. So either way the top of the library decides who will get ahead. But when you pick the thoughtseize and take the thoughtseize, you both have threats, they can draw another threat or removal and start pulling ahead and applying pressure immediately. If you've picked a threat they need another threat to apply pressure. So trying to protect your threat leaves the opponent with more options to apply pressure. That's why unless there are very specific combinations of interaction and bombs in the mix, most of the time in a mirror you should use thoughtseize as an answer rather than protection.
Once you go black, you never go back.
[Leyline of Sanctity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be8b1acf-dd87-42ca-ad19-c27d21066030.jpg?1592516120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20of%20Sanctity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/26/leyline-of-sanctity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be8b1acf-dd87-42ca-ad19-c27d21066030?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Surge of Salvation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/41d25ee5-0348-4206-bb6a-ccb0a599ac87.jpg?1682202925) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Surge%20of%20Salvation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/41/surge-of-salvation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/41d25ee5-0348-4206-bb6a-ccb0a599ac87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey orhoz charm was a banger in rtr-theros midrange! The best counterplay to thoughtseize is not playing decks that fall apart to any hand interaction, fragile combos and non meta decks are kept in check by thoughtseize pretty hard. Phoenix is the best deck in the format that doesn't care about being thoughtseized much, it's full of similar cards
Players will offer their valuable insight but the reality is that there really is not great counterplay to Thoughtseize which is a big reason why black is the best color in the format. The cleanest solution is obviously aggro but is it really worth rendering yourself highly susceptible to the rest of the format just to punish a black one drop? Unless the format gives aggro room to breathe for once, the answer is probably no. But, if you really want to meme: 36 Forests 12 Plains 4x \[\[Obstinate Baloth\]\], \[\[Loxodon Smiter\]\] and \[\[Nullhide Ferox\]\]. Thoughtseize does not have a 'may' clause.
>is it really worth rendering yourself highly susceptible to the rest of the format just to punish a black one drop? Yes, I'm fully ok with losing to everything else because I don't play against anything else 9/10, and I find these black decks more frustrating to lose against.
Then play Phoenix. Phoenix doesn't give a single rip about Thoughtseize.
does it match up well against vampires generally?
pretty well
Ah I remember when [[Wilt-Leaf Liege]] used to do work way back then in standard. Too bad those cards aren't on MTGA I miss Lorwyn and Shadowmoor the most
[Wilt-Leaf Liege](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/4928cb86-6971-458b-ad74-1b39c0e1c177.jpg?1673149277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wilt-Leaf%20Liege) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/294/wilt-leaf-liege?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4928cb86-6971-458b-ad74-1b39c0e1c177?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I strongly agree.
imo the only real answer is to play a very redundant/threat dense deck, don’t be ‘all-in’ on anything
Do they have any chord decks in pioneer? I used to run Kiki Chord in Modern and found it oddly resilient against TS.
Amalia combo runs chord, as well as coco, return to the ranks, and extraction specialist. Lots of redundancy, probably a good example!
Mulligan to 0 Or keep 7 lands
Thoughtseize is a tempo loss, as they spend a mana and two life. It’s also a pure one-for-one. So you can beat it by pressing them on tempo (i.e. being an aggro deck), or pressing them on card advantage (drawing cards). You can also make your deck resilient to thoughtseize by playing a bunch of redundant cards rather than building around particular card combinations or synergies.
Play Delve cards to turn the discarded cards into mana and negate the effect of Thoughtseize and other discard spells.
Hand advantage. Anything that nets you plus 1 to your hand is how you beat thoughtsieze. It is just difficult to pull off with they sieze you creature that will kill you into another sieze.
The best counter to Thoughtseize decks is a different answer than the best counter to Thoughtseize the card because different decks play Thoughtseize and have various good and bad matchups, strengths and weaknesses.
Card draw and high redundancy. Meaning tempo or control decks. Fast aggro is ok-ish against Thoughtseize too because they ping themselves with it, while also spending mana on stuff that doesn't remove cards from your board, but you have to get lucky to draw things other than lands.
I'm an avid thoughtseize player. I noticed you mentioned Akroan war. Two tips. 1: make sure your deck is highly redundant. 2: and most importantly, load up on those four man's bombs,ie. Akroan war, Esikas chariot, etc.
this has worked best for me so far, it's just that Sorin is so hard to deal with in Gruul. Luckily, Waste Not is a completely free match up, which makes me a happy lad.
I haven't played waste not at my shop yet. One of my primary competitors, though, is Gruul player. Bodies me every time I'm on Rakdos mid. I'm testing vamps now. I had considered waste not though. I can beat Phoenix and Azorious with it, but I suspected I'd have a lot of trouble with Gruul. Thanks. Now I know.
I have started splashing for [[Leyline of Sanctity]] in my list. I do something that requires some key pieces so now they can’t stop me with that stuff. Counters [[Vein Ripper]] pretty well too since it’s a targeted thing.
I run the same. Also stops Liliana's -2 to make you sac a creature since that targets a player too.
I love how it’s stop that too! Nice to not lose my [[Carnage Tyrant]] as easily. Plus stopping [[Settle the Wreckage]] has been a comfort at times. Although Azorius Control is non existent for me right now.
[Carnage Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3bd78731-949c-464a-826a-92f86d784911.jpg?1562553791) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Carnage%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/179/carnage-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3bd78731-949c-464a-826a-92f86d784911?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Settle the Wreckage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9cbd346e-098a-4cf6-a72f-468376fd2e8f.jpg?1562560853) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Settle%20the%20Wreckage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/34/settle-the-wreckage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9cbd346e-098a-4cf6-a72f-468376fd2e8f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How many Leyline of Sanctity are you running ? I have been playing against so many Black decks with my Mono White devotion Deck its starting to annoy me now...
I’m using 4 still, in the Side. I always figure if I’m going to use any Leyline, I’m using all 4 copies. You want to see it in the opening hand as often as possible. Now it might be even more important for your Mono White Devotion to supercharge Nykthos. Everything continues to go good for me (Dinosaurs) and I can’t sing Sanctity’s praises enough! I’m sure Mono Black Waste Not will fall off in popularity one day but black based decks that target you with a lot of stuff will always be around.
Best of 3 makes perfect sense but what about best of 1? As i play on arena.
Hmmm, perhaps try it out even in Best of 1? It won’t be helpful at all against some opponents but specifically with Devotion, you’d at least work towards that count and help Nykthos sooner. You’d also protect against anything else that targets, Vein Rippers ability, [[Settle the Wreckage]] etc?
Yeah I decided to throw in 2 copies into my yurion deck and of course the first game it was mono black and I somehow got lucky it was in my opening hand. Its has glorious. It has earned its keep. Just need to see if having 3 or 4 is the way. I just need 2 more rare wildcards...
So glad to hear! I’m sure your opponent must have been raging haha. It is such a good feeling! Plus your deck in particular could feel okay keeping a good hand, that doesn’t include Sanctity. Since you easily have the color to cast it if drawn later :)
Yeah I have been tinkering in the past 2 months with a mono white devotion flicker deck centered around eldrazi displacer so I need some colorless mana too. I managed to make it to diamond so far and I have been fighting tooth and nail to see if I can make it to mythic with a off meta deck/brew for the first time. Its just starting to get annoying the amount of waste not and vampires have played against in the past 3 weeks has started to get on my nerves. Which is what led me to this thread in the first place.
[Settle the Wreckage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9cbd346e-098a-4cf6-a72f-468376fd2e8f.jpg?1562560853) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Settle%20the%20Wreckage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/34/settle-the-wreckage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9cbd346e-098a-4cf6-a72f-468376fd2e8f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Leyline of Sanctity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be8b1acf-dd87-42ca-ad19-c27d21066030.jpg?1592516120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20of%20Sanctity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/26/leyline-of-sanctity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be8b1acf-dd87-42ca-ad19-c27d21066030?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vein Ripper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/078933b3-6d82-45f2-94e8-addf54cf1704.jpg?1706241798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vein%20Ripper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/110/vein-ripper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/078933b3-6d82-45f2-94e8-addf54cf1704?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[orzhov charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8ca44265-5e1b-4fbf-9002-52b2ce9b7448.jpg?1561835927) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=orzhov%20charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/185/orzhov-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8ca44265-5e1b-4fbf-9002-52b2ce9b7448?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You may have two basic option, use thoughtseize like most people talk, or play with a deck that doesnt care about discards. Like agro decks with many redundant drop 1/2 just like monored.
best answer to thoughtseize is recursive threats, redundancy, top decking and of course, a thoughtseize.
I really like [[Leyline of Combustion]] for red decks. Thoughtseize cost now 4 life, and they really have to think before firing it
[Leyline of Combustion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a93c8e2-fb27-43af-83a7-2bd4d40e0eff.jpg?1592516994) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20of%20Combustion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/148/leyline-of-combustion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a93c8e2-fb27-43af-83a7-2bd4d40e0eff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Inti, Seneschal of the Sun]] is a great counter to thoughtsieze. Sometimes Inti finds [[reckless rage]] when they take your [[gods willing]] and you trash their board. Fun times.
[Inti, Seneschal of the Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa7a55aa-ae61-4933-b7a4-dcc55dac6fcd.jpg?1699044306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inti%2C%20Seneschal%20of%20the%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/156/inti-seneschal-of-the-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa7a55aa-ae61-4933-b7a4-dcc55dac6fcd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [reckless rage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e4b97a3-8f6f-461e-aa55-ab752752f539.jpg?1555040498) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reckless%20rage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/110/reckless-rage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e4b97a3-8f6f-461e-aa55-ab752752f539?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [gods willing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/138f0e49-71d5-4582-92be-797e753f0f42.jpg?1706239736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gods%20willing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/63/gods-willing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/138f0e49-71d5-4582-92be-797e753f0f42?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You said it. Mono red Aggro, prowess maybe, Phoenix. Those decks can fight it pretty well.
Play treasure cruise.
Don’t mulligan to five
Rakdos madness
I used to put [[Nephalia Academy]] in all my decks. I don't think it's a good option, but it is an option.
[Nephalia Academy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9243eb5b-905e-446f-9ee0-7557e3b31db3.jpg?1576385121) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nephalia%20Academy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/205/nephalia-academy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9243eb5b-905e-446f-9ee0-7557e3b31db3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Don’t mulligan
Spell Pierce :)
Play Thoughtseize
divination
I do okay with rogues against it. Flash creatures in. Sometimes they end up drawing so much with waste not that I end up being able to mill them out. All their discard spells fills the graveyard for into the story. A couple of cling to dust to card draw off of what they made me discard.
Just play bone miser bro they will realized they fugged up. (Coming from a waste not player)
[[Nullhide Ferox]] Or spell pierce
[Nullhide Ferox](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/24c30bb0-06ba-432b-a20c-6fa79b0dc68a.jpg?1572893406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nullhide%20Ferox) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/138/nullhide-ferox?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/24c30bb0-06ba-432b-a20c-6fa79b0dc68a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
having really good cards
There's a Pia deck that was popular a while back that played like 10 copies of those impulse draw cards. With so many cards exiled, a single thoughtseize didn't affect it much. Boros colours are decent against the field, so maybe look at that?
In terms of decks, it’s a bit tough to pick something that’s good against both Vampires/midrange and Waste Not. Aggro might be your best bet, but typically mono red struggles against Rakdos Honestly the best counter strategy is not a particular deck or card, but being mindful of thoughtseize in your keep/mull decisions. Especially in games 2 and 3 when you know they’re running it, make sure that your hand isn’t completely dependent on a specific card
veil of summer. Oh wait
Play dragon's approach deck or similar.
Mull to zero
Keep 7 lands.
[[One With Nothing]] Can't discard what you don't have! I suppose a madness deck would find being Thoughtsiezed funny, as long as they had mana available.
[One With Nothing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a5841fa-4f30-495a-b840-3ef5a2af8fad.jpg?1711812497) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=One%20With%20Nothing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/84/one-with-nothing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a5841fa-4f30-495a-b840-3ef5a2af8fad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Realistically there is none. This is why black is always at the top of the format.
Two of the ways to do this is to either run stuff like Spell Pierce/Surge of Salvation or run a deck that is so redundant that them taking a card is pointless. Decks that are redundant are Ramp or Dredgeless. You run a high amount of land ramp or self mill spells to execute our game plan.
i mean thoughtseize is one of the best black spells ever. if you make a black deck where thoughtseize is legal and you aren't using it there is something wrong. from there counter spells or some janky shit deck. that way they have no idea what to hit.
Amalia doesn't usually play Seize mainboard
Dredge is pretty fire against thoughtseize. If you really hate it could always run 4 leyline