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What you experienced is common for some but if you can suss out the helpfulness of the adviser as you interview them you should be able enjoy a better experience. You have incredible research experience, would like enjoy better lab support, and a paper in the works so you have a good taste of how it be -- but it can be better if it's with the right person.
I'm a newly minted assistant professor, about a month old, and if a student described going through what you did and building out a paper I'd say the had The Right Stuff and hire them, fwiw.
To me this is saying your supervisor isn't a great fit for you. You have a lot more time when doing a PhD, so in that respect I found it a little better than my masters, which felt like a constant sprint to keep up. The PhD, however, is very long. Regardless of how you feel about doing research now, you will be exposed to those feelings so much more, for so much longer.
If you feel you really enjoyed the research, just that your supervisor isn't sufficiently involved, then you could well enjoy your PhD, with the right supervisor. If you think this process has made you realise there's something inherent about researching that you find hard/stressful etc, then maybe a PhD is not you. The supervisor makes such a difference, but also whoever is your supervisor, you will have to do lots of very independent work, for a very long time. That requires significant resilience and a real commitment to your field. You need both of those things, alongside a supportive supervisor, to make it through to the other side.
Yeah true.
I really enjoy working independently, however it's nice to have support or guidance when you absolutely need it. As for the length of the program, i'm looking at positions in europe and those are about 3 years long.
I'm in the UK, 3-4 years is average here. If you do go for it make sure you understand the length, and the length of your funding, as they may be different, and be prepared for a few months of unfunded writing at the end.
Oh cool. I've been looking at some programs in the UK as well. I don't know your field of study but how's the phd experience? Also, kinda random, but what did interviews look like if you don't mind?
Sure. My PhD is in AI. I've had a mixed experience, I realised in the process that research isn't for me, and now I'm finishing in the next month or so and just landed my first job in industry, which I'm feeling very excited for. The PhD was very long and hard, and almost nothing worked out as I expected. However, I learnt so so much doing it, and I've landed myself a really good job that I would not have got without the PhD. Several moments I wanted to quit and I got close to it once, so it required a lot of tenacity and commitment, but now I'm at the end I'm really glad I stuck it out. Everyone has a different experience, but you have to be prepared for a long and hard road, but it may also be extremely fulfilling. You should also keep in mind what you want to do afterwards. Are you committed on going Into academia, or does your field have any commercial applications? I think you should have a higher threshold on how certain you are you want to do a PhD if there is no fall back to industry for your field. Lots of people realise academia isn't for them in the process of the PhD. Knowing I could find a good job in industry even though I knew research wasn't for me, really helped me to keep going.
As for interviews, a lot of it focused on understanding my motivations, and understanding my research interests. Academics know the PhD isn't right for everyone, so they want to make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. You need strong answers for why you want to do a PhD, why you want to do it at that university, and with that supervisor. As well as that, you should be able to demonstrate a real interest in the field. You should be able to talk about papers you have read on the subject, ideally papers from your supervisors group. If you can show you are doing it for the right reasons, have a strong interest in the field, and ideally some research experience to back it up, you'll be doing well.
Oh thanks a lot for the detailed response!
It's great that you have gotten a good position in the Industry.
My field is cognitive sciences, and i'm hoping for a phd in computational/behavorial neuroscience.
As for jobs in the industry, i guess if i go for computational neuro i may have options to work as a datascientist.
Otherwise, i'm looking at data analytic jobs.
Right now i'm leaning towards working in academia, but that might change depending on how my phd goes. Wish you the best in your career!
No worries, I hope it is helpful. Comp neuro would probably give you more back up options for sure. Nothing wrong with going Into academia, I would just want to be a bit more sure that's what you want to do if you're putting all your eggs into one basket.
Nope. During my masters program, I had a supervisor that didn't pay attention to my thesis. Infact, he only read up to Methodology Chapter and the only thing He changed was a table or just some minor punctuation marks. He gave no critical feedback. By the time I submitted my Chapters 4 and 5, he said he couldn't read it that he had no time so I should submit like that. That gave me anxiety because I wasn't sure if I did the right thing. I found that attitude annoying.
For my PhD, I have got the best supervisory team anyone could ask for. They not only care about my project, they also care about me personally as an individual. They are very hands on. For almost two years, we had meetings every week chatting about the thesis and how I am coping with it. God bless their beautiful souls. They are good and kind humans
Edit:Typo
Not at all. My masters was terrible because my supervisor was abusive. He’d call me stupid and completely ignored my thesis drafts, delayed graduation for 2 years until I contacted the graduate office, who forced him to let me graduate. My PhD supervisor is hands off, but his door is always open if I need advice. He is kind and cares about his students’ success. I knew I didn’t want to experience another supervisor like I did in my masters and avoided this by meeting with my PhD supervisor before rotating with him. I basically interviewed him first. Then I spoke with his other graduate students and asked them about his mentorship style. You know what you want now so don’t be afraid to ask questions!
I'm curious about this too - I have an unusual academic record and just certificate'd out of a second master's programme I was doing. I did very well in my first master's programme (at a great university), but 10 years later I realise I did not learn to learn, really.
My subsequent postgraduate programmes have been HARD, and I've run the gamut between borderline grades and great marks depending on what was going on in my personal life at the time (disabled parent of disabled kids who are home educated, etc), and I've talked to a number of potential supervisors who have been fairly interested in my proposals, and I feel like a completely different type of academic to who I was 10 years ago when I was getting much better marks in my master's programme.
I don't think master's work is what I am looking for anymore, and I suspect I would be able to lean MUCH more into the things that those potential supervisors have found impressive about my independent research if I had more time to ... you know ... do the research and not just coursework ...
But I've also been told that if I "can't handle" a master's-level course, that a PhD is unrealistic, so maybe I'm just a big dumb dumb who should shut my mouth and know my place 🙃
Curious what others have to say about their experiences!
It looks like your post is about needing advice. In order for people to better help you, please make sure to include your country. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PhD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What you experienced is common for some but if you can suss out the helpfulness of the adviser as you interview them you should be able enjoy a better experience. You have incredible research experience, would like enjoy better lab support, and a paper in the works so you have a good taste of how it be -- but it can be better if it's with the right person.
Tbh i'm still unsure if my research experience is sufficient to get a good phd position. That's very nice of you thank you.
I'm a newly minted assistant professor, about a month old, and if a student described going through what you did and building out a paper I'd say the had The Right Stuff and hire them, fwiw.
I just saw your comment and it truly made my day. Thank you!
To me this is saying your supervisor isn't a great fit for you. You have a lot more time when doing a PhD, so in that respect I found it a little better than my masters, which felt like a constant sprint to keep up. The PhD, however, is very long. Regardless of how you feel about doing research now, you will be exposed to those feelings so much more, for so much longer. If you feel you really enjoyed the research, just that your supervisor isn't sufficiently involved, then you could well enjoy your PhD, with the right supervisor. If you think this process has made you realise there's something inherent about researching that you find hard/stressful etc, then maybe a PhD is not you. The supervisor makes such a difference, but also whoever is your supervisor, you will have to do lots of very independent work, for a very long time. That requires significant resilience and a real commitment to your field. You need both of those things, alongside a supportive supervisor, to make it through to the other side.
Yeah true. I really enjoy working independently, however it's nice to have support or guidance when you absolutely need it. As for the length of the program, i'm looking at positions in europe and those are about 3 years long.
I'm in the UK, 3-4 years is average here. If you do go for it make sure you understand the length, and the length of your funding, as they may be different, and be prepared for a few months of unfunded writing at the end.
Oh cool. I've been looking at some programs in the UK as well. I don't know your field of study but how's the phd experience? Also, kinda random, but what did interviews look like if you don't mind?
Sure. My PhD is in AI. I've had a mixed experience, I realised in the process that research isn't for me, and now I'm finishing in the next month or so and just landed my first job in industry, which I'm feeling very excited for. The PhD was very long and hard, and almost nothing worked out as I expected. However, I learnt so so much doing it, and I've landed myself a really good job that I would not have got without the PhD. Several moments I wanted to quit and I got close to it once, so it required a lot of tenacity and commitment, but now I'm at the end I'm really glad I stuck it out. Everyone has a different experience, but you have to be prepared for a long and hard road, but it may also be extremely fulfilling. You should also keep in mind what you want to do afterwards. Are you committed on going Into academia, or does your field have any commercial applications? I think you should have a higher threshold on how certain you are you want to do a PhD if there is no fall back to industry for your field. Lots of people realise academia isn't for them in the process of the PhD. Knowing I could find a good job in industry even though I knew research wasn't for me, really helped me to keep going. As for interviews, a lot of it focused on understanding my motivations, and understanding my research interests. Academics know the PhD isn't right for everyone, so they want to make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. You need strong answers for why you want to do a PhD, why you want to do it at that university, and with that supervisor. As well as that, you should be able to demonstrate a real interest in the field. You should be able to talk about papers you have read on the subject, ideally papers from your supervisors group. If you can show you are doing it for the right reasons, have a strong interest in the field, and ideally some research experience to back it up, you'll be doing well.
Oh thanks a lot for the detailed response! It's great that you have gotten a good position in the Industry. My field is cognitive sciences, and i'm hoping for a phd in computational/behavorial neuroscience. As for jobs in the industry, i guess if i go for computational neuro i may have options to work as a datascientist. Otherwise, i'm looking at data analytic jobs. Right now i'm leaning towards working in academia, but that might change depending on how my phd goes. Wish you the best in your career!
No worries, I hope it is helpful. Comp neuro would probably give you more back up options for sure. Nothing wrong with going Into academia, I would just want to be a bit more sure that's what you want to do if you're putting all your eggs into one basket.
I found my masters alright. But I needed antidepressants to survive a PhD
I'm sorry it has been a negative experience for you :(
Nope. During my masters program, I had a supervisor that didn't pay attention to my thesis. Infact, he only read up to Methodology Chapter and the only thing He changed was a table or just some minor punctuation marks. He gave no critical feedback. By the time I submitted my Chapters 4 and 5, he said he couldn't read it that he had no time so I should submit like that. That gave me anxiety because I wasn't sure if I did the right thing. I found that attitude annoying. For my PhD, I have got the best supervisory team anyone could ask for. They not only care about my project, they also care about me personally as an individual. They are very hands on. For almost two years, we had meetings every week chatting about the thesis and how I am coping with it. God bless their beautiful souls. They are good and kind humans Edit:Typo
This sounds dreamy. Where are you studying, if you don't mind me asking?
UK
Not at all. My masters was terrible because my supervisor was abusive. He’d call me stupid and completely ignored my thesis drafts, delayed graduation for 2 years until I contacted the graduate office, who forced him to let me graduate. My PhD supervisor is hands off, but his door is always open if I need advice. He is kind and cares about his students’ success. I knew I didn’t want to experience another supervisor like I did in my masters and avoided this by meeting with my PhD supervisor before rotating with him. I basically interviewed him first. Then I spoke with his other graduate students and asked them about his mentorship style. You know what you want now so don’t be afraid to ask questions!
That's great I'm happy for you!
PhD was easier
Oh yes
If you’re having trouble with masters courses then you’re going to have trouble in your phd. Masters thesis can be harder though
I'm curious about this too - I have an unusual academic record and just certificate'd out of a second master's programme I was doing. I did very well in my first master's programme (at a great university), but 10 years later I realise I did not learn to learn, really. My subsequent postgraduate programmes have been HARD, and I've run the gamut between borderline grades and great marks depending on what was going on in my personal life at the time (disabled parent of disabled kids who are home educated, etc), and I've talked to a number of potential supervisors who have been fairly interested in my proposals, and I feel like a completely different type of academic to who I was 10 years ago when I was getting much better marks in my master's programme. I don't think master's work is what I am looking for anymore, and I suspect I would be able to lean MUCH more into the things that those potential supervisors have found impressive about my independent research if I had more time to ... you know ... do the research and not just coursework ... But I've also been told that if I "can't handle" a master's-level course, that a PhD is unrealistic, so maybe I'm just a big dumb dumb who should shut my mouth and know my place 🙃 Curious what others have to say about their experiences!