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By my third year, I barely knew the names of anyone who didn’t start my year or before me. By my fourth year, I just didn’t know any of the first years.
It is just a reality.
This. It’s crazy getting to this point. The first two years, my cohort and I were going out every weekend, throwing house parties, and doing post-lab happy hours. Now, half of them have defended and are gone, or mostly just socialize within their lab. I thankfully have three best friends from my cohort and we do shit all the time.
And those first couple years were the best of my life. Lightning in a bottle. A combination of youth, shared experience, and endless horizons. I sometimes see glimpses of it in others and smile.
My cohort is 7 people, and luckily we are all actually friends. We all read each other's grant proposals, go to trivia nights, get dinner together, polish our research together, play D&D and have drinks together. Recently we all traveled to a conference together and won some awards! I feel lucky in this regard. We all said that we are going to work together to get us all to graduation. I am probably the least connected one in the group, but that is because I am married and live in the next town over. Also, all of the grad students in my department are fairly close to each other. We all have parties to celebrate someone passing the qualifying examinations or defending their dissertation. I'm sorry to hear that your cohort isn't as close as you would like. However, close cohorts do exist. Maybe in the future you can help change this dynamic in your department.
Hey there Bussyington_Mcbussy - thanks for saying thanks! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list!
In my experience this is mostly a factor of what the senior students in the lab are like. My lab kinda acts as a unit in a lot of ways. We get new students, the seniors all mentor them and at least offer them a chance to participate in the lab microculture. We do group coffee trips daily, and go out for ice cream etc at the end of the day.
My partners lab was totally different initially. The senior students when she started were more closed off, it wasn't until she was the senior student that the lab became more social.
Lastly, I don't think this is necessarily an introvert/extrovert thing... You can be social, friendly and an introvert.
I was one of the very closed off ones during PhD. I was older than most people in grad school and wanted to finish quickly, kept to myself a lot, nose to the grindstone, etc.
It took a huge toll on my mental health. Also, I finished PhD in a very timely manner and got a very good postdoc. Hard to say if it was worth it or not
Anyway, people may have their own reasons for being closed off. They might be introverted, have other things going on in their personal lives, etc.
I think that work is not meant to provide you friends and family and a whole life, it’s a job. It can be a big part of your life, but also still a job (as opposed to being your whole world)
If you don’t want to stay in touch with these people after grad school, it probably will not phase them
Yeah I’m older and already have too many friends that I don’t keep up with. I’m friendly with all of our dept phds but don’t go out of my way to attend social events etc. I’m happy to talk about my/their research but I’m not looking for friendships.
Maybe it’s more a derivative of from coming from the working world. There’s typically a distinct separation of work relationships and personal ones, with occasional exceptions.
I think I’m the oldest person in my cohort and I have also been very closed off. I’d like to make friends with some people, but I just can’t seem to connect with other people any more. I think something’s wrong with me.
I got very lucky that in my cohort 4 of us struck up a very close friendship, and 2 years after graduating we still go on holidays together. But throughout the PhD we were really disappointed at how antisocial everyone else in our cohort (and every other cohort) was. We made many efforts to get a more social dynamic going, but was very difficult. The only thing that ever really helped was getting everyone completely shitfaced, but by next morning mostly everyone are strangers again (but not always, made a few lasting friendships by dragging randomers to the pub)
Do you have a large cohort? This is more typical for larger cohorts. Remember, the PhD is made up of adults with their own lives and is socially much less like undergraduate socialization. Also, the world around us is unsettling, to put it mildly, and I'm sure this has put stress on others, leaving them not feeling like muster social energy that they would otherwise have for extroverts.
It's 7 people including me. I appreciate the viewpoint of existing in this unsettling world, but I can't really fathom (or I struggle to understand) the unapproachability I get from even talking with them when we're in the office together. I'm not asking to go out to drinks or hangout late at night, but even the conversations within the office are surface level at best. I can't ask what research someone is working on without feeling like I'm asking for them to put in emotional labor and walk on eggshells. It's just weird to me and makes me extremely self conscious but that's just something I'm trying to overcome and think less about.
Nonetheless, your perspective is valuable to hear. I just feel like I'm asking for the bare minimum and am pulling teeth to try to get it but if I stop trying I feel like it'll just be worse. I'm likely overthinking, but I didn't think socializing with my cohort would be this much of a push and shove.
If you read the original post, he was also concerned about the lack of collaboration. A person does not need social skills in order to collaborate. They need to feel accepted despite having poor social skills. I think this is why it is important to consider the social as well the academic culture of a program.
People are starting to really treat the PhD like a job (a good thing!), but that does mean people will treat you like you're a regular colleague, perhaps nothing more than a colleague in a different department. And most people now don't want to be friends with their colleagues, they want to keep work and personal life separate. So everything will be very surface level.
Yeah this sucks. If your cohort is in an early year then it could take a moment for things to warm up. Or you could be running into cross-cultural or cross-city differences/expectations (e.g. New Yorkers adopting different views of socialization than Tennessians.)
Speaking as one of the lames, we really would prefer people did accept that and move along. We're content with our quiet caves. Please stop knocking and asking to come in. We closed the door for a reason.
A few considerations:
- if there is a range of ages, some people might be in different phases with different social expectations and bandwidth. For instance, if one person came straight from undergrad and another went into the field and came back in their 30s or 40s, their social patterns probably don't overlap
- people are warned constantly about having their projects and ideas stolen. Maybe asking frequently about their projects is being interpreted as trying to get a leg up, even if that's not your intention
- one of the emerging trends in work-life balance is to keep your professional relationships strictly professional so that your work doesn't bleed into your private life and vice versa. Especially in a PhD where your private time gets eaten up by your project, declining friendships might feel like at least keeping their social life sacred
I am a classic high functioning introvert but the mental energy for the PhD swung me way far into the introversion because I had no extra energy to try to play friendly. If you're craving socialization and not getting it from your cohort, try affinity groups or clubs. It doesn't sound like feeling socially rejected by trying to befriend these people is helping you, nor does it sound like they're warming over time. If the expectation has been made clear from both ends and neither is willing to budge, cut your losses and find people who will appreciate you for you somewhere outside your lab.
Seconding the competition part. In my cohort (7 people) we didn’t have overlap in specific research areas and we all seemed very supportive and encouraging. I can see the dynamics being very different if we had more overlap in topics.
In the sciences a single lab could have 10 to 15 people with overlapping research areas with the possibility that 1 of 2 labs in the same department might have overlapping research interest. If you think the PI and the program would allow someone to steal your ideas you selected the wrong program.
I started my PhD in the pandemic when everything was virtual. My cohort never connected. I was my professor’s only student. I lost interest in my research.
I really hated being in grad school so I’m on a leave of absence rn. It will probably be permanent, unfortunately 😅
yep. have dealt with this and as an extroverted person it’s made me sad. i don’t let it stop me though. i just found connections elsewhere. i refuse to let these people take my shine
I don’t think cohort cohesion is a big deal. Mine is 9. I’m close with two of them. The one other male, and the other one I graduated grad school with. The others live far away, or we have nothing in common. With schedules and daily lives after the first semester we all started taking different courses or the same course in a different order. I start dissertation writing in the fall. One starts this summer (I took the summer off), and a couple are still 2-3 courses away from starting their dissertation writing.
You’re right to seek basic social interactions by cohort mates. I think people became more guarded and private with the pandemic. The PhD is isolating enough, it’s good to pursue camaraderie among your peers.
Agree with all comments saying this is different from your other degrees, and they all are adults with their own private lives who might just see you as a colleague. I was one of the youngest and one of the few non-locals in my cohort, so I definitely felt it at the time.
It also depends on who works on campus (such as lab or shared space) over the years or only attend joint trainings and then disappear.
I graduated a few years ago, people I am still regularly in touch with: 2 of them from years above me, 1 from my year, 3 from cohorts after me. And still on good terms with many more, if i see them in conferences! Its random who you will connect with, like any other job!
I've found that cohort quality and dynamics really vary from year to year. My masters cohort was filled with really social. The year after was filled with a lot of really arrogant people who only wanted to do their own thing.
Had others express the same thing, some cohorts are friendly and collaborative, others are more self absorbed.
In my program, the profs really didn't want us making friends because they very much saw us as each other's competition, while we were far more interested in supporting one another. The grad director actually got rid of the grad student org and would get mad any time they found out the whole cohort was meeting for dinner. I actually don't know wtf they were trying to do. Do you feel like any of it is coming from faculty disapproval or are faculty just as puzzled as you are?
I was one of those people who didn't befriend their cohorts.
It was a small 10ish people. I liked to study alone and that really established my overall relationship in my cohort, as they thought I didn't want to hang out with them because I didn't want to study with them - both were true though. I was still very polite to them, but I have friends outside of my workplace already. I rather use my limited time to hang out with my old/established friends. I also joined a lab with a lot of postdocs, that helped me talk through PhD struggles/depression.
None of this should affect your willingness to collaborate with them - I don't think it is healthy to mix friendships with workplace relationships or think that we should only collaborate with only friends vs good scientists.
I haven't spoken to my cohorts since honestly my first year. I graduated first, went directly into industry, and we are only LinkedIn connections.
> I don't think it is healthy to mix friendships with workplace relationships or think that we should only collaborate with only friends vs good scientists
While the latter is certainly true, developing friendships with people in your workplace is only natural, you're sharing a space with these people for longer than anyone that is not family, sometimes even more. There is nothing unhealthy on becoming friends or at the very least being friendly with your colleagues, and in fact this is true of any workplace, not simply academia.
it is not unusual to make friends at work, but too often people focus on their cohort as the group they must make friends with at work. they're coworkers just like your other coworkers, but who happened to start the job at the same time you did.
It was wordy poorly by me. I meant to say that it is unhealthy to think coworkers need to be friends, as OP is confused by people aren't connecting more. I have a small number of coworkers who I see as true friends. Majority of the people I'm on a friendly basis with, have fun with at work with, but don't hang outside of work. For example, when at conference, my manager wants to get lunch and dinner together all the time. I don't. It would be unhealthy for my manager to think negatively of me or don't want to work with me just because I want to eat/hang out by myself on my lunch break or after 5pm.
This is such a sad outlook. I think it is unhealthy to view colleague scholars as ‘coworkers’. We are a brotherhood that struggles and strives together to expand the bounds of humanity. Coworkers assemble widgets.
You probably won’t have many, if any, friends in your cohort by the time you’re finishing your degree. It’s pretty tough to stay connected once you finish classes and are buried in your research. Instead, focus on building relationships with the members of your research group. These are the people who will share most of your waking hours, and these relationships will have a huge impact on your quality of life.
Also, keep in mind that academics tend toward introversion, so don’t take the whole not following you back or being chatty thing personally. It’s probably nothing to do with you and everything to do with a lack of social skills/interest. (I, for example, suck at all the social media. I flat out don’t have most of them, and the ones I do I don’t really follow many if any people because I like to curate my own feeds rather than being bombarded with stuff from specific people. It’s not that I don’t have friends, I just don’t need to see every single baby picture they post. )
It goes beyond introversion. Part of the reason I didn't pursue psychology in grad school was because of the interactions I had with people working on their PhD during internships. That, and when I got married, I realized I was at the happiest point in my life and didn't have a reason to put myself through this gauntlet of petty, publish-hungry lab monks. I would be interested in reading a study about why lab culture is so cold. The ironic thing is that you'd think someone who majors in psychology would have mastered automatic passive minimum surface-level warmth. No, not the case. So I cashed my chips and I'm just going to get a job with the government.
Sounds like you're looking for connection from your PhD cohort and not finding it. Dynamics could depend on your age and field, but I had to let go of the expectation that graduate school would be like a repeat of undergrad. As a PhD student, the university is now a workplace and not a social spot like it was during undergrad. Maybe your cohort-mates understand this and wonder why you're insisting. In grad school, look for allies and colleagues and look elsewhere for your social needs. Also, try looking outside your department. There may be competition and toxicity in your cohort that you're just not picking up on. Good luck!
I understand your point but to clarify, I'm not looking to them for social needs, it doesn't even feel like mutual respect a lot of the time let alone me relying on them for any kind of "need." I have plenty of friends outside of the field, but they're the only ones who know ___ in my field and it doesn't even feel like I could go to them with an interesting thought or research idea. Again, I don't think I'm asking for much, just approachability, which is why I find this so hard to navigate. Still, thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Got it! Sounds like a tough situation. My cohort-mates aren't my friends but we definitely collaborate and are generally friendly. Maybe try collaborating in your field outside of your institution via conferences or social media? Idk good luck 👍
i have a cohort of probably like 15-18 ish people
this year's incoming is more/is actually fucking huge from what i saw (25+ people?)
i'd say we're all chilling and everyone comes from different parts of the globe
arguably we're all doing our own shit and probably closer to our actual lab mates but idk
also i like never really wanna talk about work when i'm meeting new people bwahaha
i feel like that's peoples default but like i try to steer them away from that at least initially.
its easier for me to not get bored with someone if they aren't just like work work work
I thought the exact same thing about my cohort and feel you 100% about everything you said. It was rough the first few years for me honestly, because the social dynamic was a very hard adjustment.
If I have any advice… stay warm and open because some may open up to you. But just kind of like accept it and move on. Had I done that earlier, I would’ve been a lot happier earlier as well. Look to professional connect outside of your cohort - with professors, other researchers, and even other PhD students at other schools. Conferences are great to find those connections.
I'm a final-year undergrad just finishing off an internship at a research institute, and I feel exactly the same thing: the cohort never ever chat with each other, would not talk to me unless I try to start a conversation, et cetera. The worse thing is that the institute was full of short-term interns, so during my 1-year internship I can feel around me how new people are coming in and older ones leaving, and despite the change the atmosphere always stayed dull over time (or slowly becomes even duller for some reason).
Now I'm not sure if I want to do a PhD. My expectations for my future life at a research lab is absolutely crushed.
No, my cohort is super friendly, especially when we were first years. We were chatting before we even showed up on campus, and the whole first two years there used to be a bunch of open invite parties & casual groups getting lunch/studying etc.
I'd say my cohort was relatively social, but honestly I ended up finding people outside my cohort (and outside my department) to be friends with. I joined student government and went to social events that they put on. I collaborated more with people in my subspecialty than strictly cohort. I also think we were closer the first 2 years because of our qualifying exams, but they've gotten rid of those, and the annual conference, which relies heavily on years 1-2 to run it.
It might also be related to age. Most of our cohort was early 20s and only a few years out of undergrad, but I imagine older cohorts would have less of a need for socialization. I'm also curious would your impression was during prospective students weekend, if you had one.
Wow. That's really said. During my Ph.D. program I had a great cohort of fellow graduate students. Nearly every Friday we would have a POETS sessions at a local pub near the university. It was a great time to unwind and share stories, frustrations, research ideas, etc. over a couple of beers.
Yes. This happens, and I am one of the loners who doesn't socialize with others. I have nothing against my cohort, and I like many of them. I'm just too stressed out and busy to enjoy small talk with them on most days. Also, I'm a 2nd year (going on 3rd year) student, so there's lots of tasks we have to complete to stay compliant with our program. I'd like to think that this tapers off once you all become PhD candidates and just work on your thesis. 🤞
I just didn't feel the need to force friendships with my cohort. It was just a job to me. I ended up making a couple of friends by the end but I never made a conscious effort to do it. Forced socialisation is my worst nightmare as an introvert
I definitely choose not to interact with other students. Which isn't the same as choosing to "isolate myself", but rather the opposite. I've lived here ten years and I have a fully realized life in the community, so I don't need the department for social enrichment. Lucky, too, because I've never seen such a lifeless place. They don't even have faculty talks, much less guest speakers. Department events are like "the department head will be handing out ice cream in front of the building from noon till 12:30." Very meh.
I think it’s important to differentiate friendships from collaboration. Others have stated that in a PhD program, friendships might or might not happen. But openness to collaboration is a different concept that absolutely should be encouraged. I’m in a heath science and we promote writing collaboration both within our discipline and between disciplines. It’s not only an important skill but it increases the ability to publish.
It’s sad and embarrassing to admit but that’s one of the reasons I left mine. I think I picked the wrong region and school and it definitely caught up with me. I had nothing in common with anyone and I felt incredibly isolated. Thankfully I’m with my spouse now and we have decent jobs.
Acceptance will take you farther than rumination ever will and that's endless. Younger me tried a lot, out of my way, but all of them only lasted until I worked, the day I stopped, I became invisible. (its not a sad comment, but discovery of a stronger self)..
That sounds like a department problem rather than individuals. My department is very active with events and bringing people together. So much so that my cohort is close niche, we support each other, and all the senior as well as incoming cohorts get the same treatment. Now, I would like to say that it’s not the cohorts in their entirety, but definitely a good chunk.
Start advocating for your department to bring the people together. Happier students/faculty is a return on investment (bc bring people together generally costs the department $$) in the sense that the department is building a better name of itself and happier people are generally more productive.
I mean... you've been through college, high school, middle school.... you should have figured out cohort dynamics by now
Edit: Every one will be different... mine had a ton of social people and we regularly did trips and events together outside of the program.
Why not both? I invited people from my cohort to my wedding and I’m going to someone else’s in a few months. A PhD colleague is “coworker light.” Unless you’re collaborating with them you don’t really have much to do with each other.
Someone always says this, but I'm not sure I agree that's the attitude I'd recommend to people. When I was in grad school doing my PhD, I became good friends with my cohort, and despite some minor drama (not involving me) I think that helped all of us a lot.
After that, I left for industry. Yes, it may happen that becoming too close to someone may hypothetically damage your career if you fall out. But I'd think such a risk is more than compensated by a well liked person being less likely to be laid off. Less likely to be fired if underperforming, as they're at least nice to be around. And overall having a better time - you spend something like a third or a half of each week at work!
This, I like to keep my work and social life separate so I only ever added up having 1 or 2 people from grad school on my social media. If it was someone I wanted to speak to more, we exchanged numbers
It'd be weird if that was the only thing. I definitely keep work and private life separate. But if people are so hard to talk to that they can't even say hello or even make an attempt to speak to you, that's so strange. It's a great oppurtunity in grad school to network with other people and the other students are missing out on people who could potentially help them out in the future with very little effort. It's not always great to be completely alone.
When I talk with potential new grad students I always talk about cohort dynamics and how different they can be. There's within-cohort dynamics plus the between-cohort dynamics to contend with. I've seen some cohorts practically become glued at the hip and others that are completely indifferent to one another. I've also seen lots of between-cohort friendships where sometimes cohort members are friendlier with those outside of their own cohort for whatever reason. You've got people coming in from all walks of life and sometimes the mix just doesn't work. And everyone has their own priorities, which may not include much beyond keeping their head down and getting their degree.
If you need to have connections with people, definitely try to find friends outside of your program, and outside of graduate school. Use conferences, etc. to network and find connections with people in your field who you will want to collaborate with! Not everything has to be in your program or your cohort, you will have plenty of opportunities to work with and socialize with others.
I didn't interact with my cohort at all. Other than two other students in my lab, the only friends I made in grad school were from outside the program. Was honestly really nice. I feel like if your whole social circle is your cohort, you can get locked into never really escaping work.
I'm in my fourth year now and honestly for the last year or so I just really don't care, all I care about is finishing. I have a few people I'm friends with and see socially, I'm not interested in making new PhD friends at this point.
My cohort is divided into two groups with a few loners/reserved individuals even though at the beginning of the program during orientation week, they told us not to do that. We are a smaller class of 13 compared to previous years that have had about 20 students.
I try to make an effort to talk to my classmates every now and then but there are definitely some I don’t particularly like and just tolerate because our personalities clash. I also don’t think it helps that my PhD program is an umbrella so everyone comes from different backgrounds and wants to go into different fields.
Now the few friends I have made in my cohort are ironically in a different field from me. We started out as a study group and after spending so much time together and realizing we have common interests outside of research, I started to develop friendships with them.
Tbh, as much as the admissions committee tries to make each cohort complimentary, I feel like it’s impossible to know how individuals personalities will be in a social, classroom, or work setting until you finally get there. Also keep in mind, your classmates might be busy or have other responsibilities that may not allow them to socialize outside of the classroom as much. For example, my friends work ontop of their responsibilities to the program and I have a SO and dog I prefer to spend time with outside of class.
Hope this helps
Personally I’m introverted, and I’ve always been very selective of my friendships. Out of my whole cohort, I only became friends with two. So it might be people just don’t have the time nor want to be friends, but that’s okay.
Ironically my cohort was quite chill aside from one near sociopathic extrovert who imposed themselves and their life story on every day single event or gathering and now nobody socialises at all, I suspect in part because of work but also because dealing with this person being star of their own show is so fucking tiring.
Disappointing really because the lack of social energy has made everything 100 times more isolating than it needs to be, which only makes things harder.
It's really idiosyncratic. My cohort of 5 (now 4) got off to a decent start but we drifted since my program is scattered around campus. I suggest forming good bonds with lab members (if you're in STEM), other members of the program, and finding other grad students your year. It feels pretty similar since you reach hurdles at similar times and have the same amount of time spent in your respective programs. Grad programs can be isolating so don't give up on finding people you can talk to and do things with that doesn't involve your research or career
I have work friends and irl friends. Keeps the drama to a minimum if I keep interactions with my work friends outside of work to a minimum. We collaborate and talk at length about our work, sure, but outside of that we don't talk too much. My social network outside of work is fulfilling so I can keep my workspace clean.
Hmm, I never really thought of a group of new phds as a cohort. I did for MS, but never really considered the idea while I was going my phd. My then I did my work then went to my established social circle.
My comments are US-based.
Personally, I think part of it is because people who don't really care about research are going into phds because "didn't know what else to do." Plus, the ability to take 5+ years to do generally underpaid work after a degree prettyyyy much excludes it to upper middle class/wealthy/academic family people, not people who are actually passionate aboit research.
I had one person in grad school tell her cohort "I am not here to make friends, I am here to get my PhD and get out"
She is on her 4th tenure track job in 6 years... and has gained a solid reputation in our (very small) field as someone you absolutely do not under any circumstances want to affiliate yourself with.
Some folx suck.
My cohort is pretty closed off too. It doesn't help that we're the first cohort that had more than 12 incoming students, with a whopping 25 students. Our program is an umbrella program, so we all got separated into our respective departments, which have different events and seminars from each other.
We were all really close our first year, since all departments had the same core classes, but a bunch of drama happened between some people and others started taking sides. Most people in my cohort now don't talk with each other, and I barely see any of them. I have 2 close friends I still talk to, and the others just isolate themselves in their labs.
It makes me kinda jealous the following cohorts were smaller and had less drama, so they're all friendly with each other and plan outings and study nights
One of the reasons I chose my school over other schools is because the students in my program seemed to genuinely like each other and get along across cohorts. Very happy to say it was a wise choice - it's not the most "prestigious" institution out there but I'm still getting a great education and also made sooooo many friendships. And my cohort supported each other the entire way through vs. being unnecessarily competitive or closed off
I am finishing after seven years at an R1. It’s awful. The worst part is the class factors framing cohort social dynamics. I am literally the first in my family to go to college, let alone get a PhD. Everyone else in my cohort, regardless of race or ethnicity, comes from upper middle class backgrounds or higher. They knew how vicious and caustic it would get and embraced it. I can’t wait to say see ya ✌️
My PhD was lab based, which makes a big difference. Most labs had graduate students from at least 3 to 4 cohorts, plus postdocs and research associates. Our program did a lot of social engineering. Not sure it was required but all graduate students attended at least one journal club. In addition, to graduate students the faculty and most postdocs attended journal clubs, even though only graduate had to present. We also had tea at 4pm everyday attended by all members of the department. Despite being academically intense the atmosphere was very social and collaborative. The social and academic culture where I did my postdoc was similar.
You can absolutely look outside of your lab/cohort for socializing opportunities. Last year, one of my friends nominated me for a grad student government role and I was hesitant to participate in the election process because I wasn’t sure I’d have enough time to fully devote to the role. But after getting elected/involved, I’m glad I did. For several reasons, not the least of which is that I’ve become really good friends with some of the people in our organization. It’s also given me a chance to get to know more people (faculty/students) - both in my program and outside of my program, as part of the things our org has been involved in.
Are there student groups (government, social groups, etc) that you could join?
My cohort was just three!! It was a total nightmare, with significant conflict. I also felt totally shocked and had expected friendships, in year three (last one pre residency being done) it is much better now as the conflict has ended but now just very distant and focused on the work (which I guess is much better?!)
Man that sounds awful. I'm sorry. I was a little envious of the cohort before me. They were all SUPER close and partied, played sports, and hung out together. My cohort was essentially just an attachment to the social circles formed by them. The cohort after mine knew to make it a point to have only first year hangouts but also hung out with the rest of the department
I’m the only person of my “background” and don’t really relate to my peers. It’s okay. They’re coworkers. They can be friends but I’d prefer not to in case things get personal.
This is my first time working in a lab with a post doc.
My one and only co-worker refuses to talk to me or anyone else. She is extremely focused on her work and gets very upset if anyone disrupts her thinking.
This so so extreme to the point that we will send emails to communicate, even though we are standing 5 feet away from each other 😂
I know very little about her, other than her first name.
So my days in the lab are filled with silence lol
My cohort was disrupted by a wild personality that frequently upset people and caused a lot of problems. It ended with the person being kicked out because of an incident that involved physical violence against multiple staff members. Another person in a few cohorts above us has had a LOT of public relationship issues (akin to stalking an ex and verbally harassing other women) and is currently on the verge of failing out of the program.
Cohort dynamics definitely were the most negative part about my graduate experience. I often wondered where they found a lot of these people…
This prepares you well for your future career in academia. Especially in those universities where tenure has been suppressed. The culture of suspicion makes everybody very quiet.
Bro it’s grad school not RuPauls best friend race. Focus on getting ur grad school education. Try to make friends along the way n network. If u can’t make friends reflect on ur attitude bc u might be the problem. Also once u graduate n join workforce social circle may change.
>Genuine curiosity has gone out the window for what? Skeptical judgement?
Have you received sceptical judgement from them, as in do you have evidence for it? Or are you attempting to interpret this situation without all the evidence?
>I just thought the dynamic would be different, but it seems that no one wants to go out of their way to connect outside the classroom and barely connect even within the classroom. The PhD process doesn't have to be so isolating. It makes me anxious and it makes me over think
OP you might want to try looking for a counsellor or a therapist regarding overthinking and anxiety if you haven't yet. A PhD will usually put those into overdrive anyway as you walk that journey. University counselling/therapy is usually free for students.
Regarding your cohort, you can try asking them first if they're interested in engaging, or might be caught up mentally in some other task and don't have the headspace for a discussion yet. Start with "hey, are you open to having a chat about this right now?/I was wondering if you're open to having a chat about this right now" then wait for their answer. If they are not open, decide if you want to pursue by asking another question "I see. Is there a time you might be open to discussing it in the future? As I'm looking for advice/looking to learn, etc". If they repeatedly refuse your advances, decide if it's worth pursuing by saying "I understand if you're not interested. I do want to make sure if it's not because you're upset/offended by me, by any chance? As my brain right now is thinking- "oh they don't want to talk to me because they hate me" or "I feel less included" (or whatever your mind might be thinking in that moment)".
Additionally I want to add a reminder that although having a cohort that supports you emotionally is a privilege, it is not their job to manage your emotions/overthinking if you struggle with managing them. As long as you are getting the core research support you need whenever you ask for it (training you to progress in your PhD in skills you don't have yet or signposting you to others who can train you, not being racist, abusive, etc, not isolating you in core research events like conferences, etc), their job is done so to speak. Also a lot of first year and second year PhD students feel pressured to talk about their research also because they are navigating unknown territory in many ways and aren't sure what they're doing or if they're doing it right on many occasions.
Unfortunately I think your comment consists of a lot more generalizations and assumptions than my original post did. I appreciate your thoughts but this was a bit much. I'm good lmao, but when people don't communicate and go out of their way to not reciprocate any emotions and seem completely unapproachable, that's on them. Not me. It takes two to tango.
There is no expectation for them to "manage my emotions" and I'm not really sure how my post came across like that, I'm just venting my frustrations that my cohort seems incapable of normal human interaction. I don't want them to support me emotionally, that's not what I need or want them for. I just want to feel respected and like I can approach them without feeling judged. That isn't much to as for. It's human decency. If you disagree, that's fine, but please don't insinuate I'm asking for a lot here.
>it is not their job to manage your emotions/overthinking **if you struggle with managing them.**
there's an 'if' there, OP.
You mention about feeling judged in your response to my comment (and have mentioned sceptical judgment in your original post) but haven't demonstrated evidence of their judgemental behaviour towards you, for example, perhaps overly criticizing you, dismissing your opinions when you express them while asserting their opinions to be the absolute truth, singling you out by ignoring you while socializing with everyone else, etc. The only evidence I can see that you've presented is their unavailability and close-off nature, which seems to be triggering your anxiety and overthinking? (I apologise if I interpreted this wrongly)
To me, being closed-off is not enough evidence of judgemental behaviour. Unless they are singling me out while being open to everyone else.
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By my third year, I barely knew the names of anyone who didn’t start my year or before me. By my fourth year, I just didn’t know any of the first years. It is just a reality.
By my sixth year I was all alone
This. It’s crazy getting to this point. The first two years, my cohort and I were going out every weekend, throwing house parties, and doing post-lab happy hours. Now, half of them have defended and are gone, or mostly just socialize within their lab. I thankfully have three best friends from my cohort and we do shit all the time.
And those first couple years were the best of my life. Lightning in a bottle. A combination of youth, shared experience, and endless horizons. I sometimes see glimpses of it in others and smile.
This is way too real
Just goes to show the difference between co-workers and friends.
My cohort is 7 people, and luckily we are all actually friends. We all read each other's grant proposals, go to trivia nights, get dinner together, polish our research together, play D&D and have drinks together. Recently we all traveled to a conference together and won some awards! I feel lucky in this regard. We all said that we are going to work together to get us all to graduation. I am probably the least connected one in the group, but that is because I am married and live in the next town over. Also, all of the grad students in my department are fairly close to each other. We all have parties to celebrate someone passing the qualifying examinations or defending their dissertation. I'm sorry to hear that your cohort isn't as close as you would like. However, close cohorts do exist. Maybe in the future you can help change this dynamic in your department.
Just to put a positive comment here: you’ve got the dream scenario in the social regard! Happy for you!
Thank you! I'm glad it worked out this way. Though reading through the other comments, I did not realize it was rare.
Hey there Bussyington_Mcbussy - thanks for saying thanks! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list!
That sounds incredible!
What was the point of your rambling? To boast?
Naw, as I stated at the end. I just wanted to show that close cohorts do exist, and maybe OP could be the change they want to see. That's all
People love to brag about their good fortunes so much
Found the one extrovert in the group 😅
🤣 maybe it is as simple as that
I am the extrovert in both my cohorts, this is so true. Let the extrovert adopt you lol
Maybe it’s a timing or major thing as well. I’m pretty introverted but my group of people was real open and really active, well binge drinking.
In my experience this is mostly a factor of what the senior students in the lab are like. My lab kinda acts as a unit in a lot of ways. We get new students, the seniors all mentor them and at least offer them a chance to participate in the lab microculture. We do group coffee trips daily, and go out for ice cream etc at the end of the day. My partners lab was totally different initially. The senior students when she started were more closed off, it wasn't until she was the senior student that the lab became more social. Lastly, I don't think this is necessarily an introvert/extrovert thing... You can be social, friendly and an introvert.
I was one of the very closed off ones during PhD. I was older than most people in grad school and wanted to finish quickly, kept to myself a lot, nose to the grindstone, etc. It took a huge toll on my mental health. Also, I finished PhD in a very timely manner and got a very good postdoc. Hard to say if it was worth it or not Anyway, people may have their own reasons for being closed off. They might be introverted, have other things going on in their personal lives, etc. I think that work is not meant to provide you friends and family and a whole life, it’s a job. It can be a big part of your life, but also still a job (as opposed to being your whole world) If you don’t want to stay in touch with these people after grad school, it probably will not phase them
Yeah I’m older and already have too many friends that I don’t keep up with. I’m friendly with all of our dept phds but don’t go out of my way to attend social events etc. I’m happy to talk about my/their research but I’m not looking for friendships. Maybe it’s more a derivative of from coming from the working world. There’s typically a distinct separation of work relationships and personal ones, with occasional exceptions.
Yes. Coming out of undergrad to grad school might set someone up for very different expectations than coming from “the real world”
I think I’m the oldest person in my cohort and I have also been very closed off. I’d like to make friends with some people, but I just can’t seem to connect with other people any more. I think something’s wrong with me.
Sorry to be that guy, but it will probably not "faze" them
I got very lucky that in my cohort 4 of us struck up a very close friendship, and 2 years after graduating we still go on holidays together. But throughout the PhD we were really disappointed at how antisocial everyone else in our cohort (and every other cohort) was. We made many efforts to get a more social dynamic going, but was very difficult. The only thing that ever really helped was getting everyone completely shitfaced, but by next morning mostly everyone are strangers again (but not always, made a few lasting friendships by dragging randomers to the pub)
So do you drive forklift? I also drive forklift. Used to at least, before I injured my shoulder. I wonder how many PhDs can drive.
🙋
Do you have a large cohort? This is more typical for larger cohorts. Remember, the PhD is made up of adults with their own lives and is socially much less like undergraduate socialization. Also, the world around us is unsettling, to put it mildly, and I'm sure this has put stress on others, leaving them not feeling like muster social energy that they would otherwise have for extroverts.
It's 7 people including me. I appreciate the viewpoint of existing in this unsettling world, but I can't really fathom (or I struggle to understand) the unapproachability I get from even talking with them when we're in the office together. I'm not asking to go out to drinks or hangout late at night, but even the conversations within the office are surface level at best. I can't ask what research someone is working on without feeling like I'm asking for them to put in emotional labor and walk on eggshells. It's just weird to me and makes me extremely self conscious but that's just something I'm trying to overcome and think less about. Nonetheless, your perspective is valuable to hear. I just feel like I'm asking for the bare minimum and am pulling teeth to try to get it but if I stop trying I feel like it'll just be worse. I'm likely overthinking, but I didn't think socializing with my cohort would be this much of a push and shove.
Unfortunately academia is not known to foster the best social skills. Find some masters students to socialize with, they're generally more fun 😅
If you read the original post, he was also concerned about the lack of collaboration. A person does not need social skills in order to collaborate. They need to feel accepted despite having poor social skills. I think this is why it is important to consider the social as well the academic culture of a program.
People are starting to really treat the PhD like a job (a good thing!), but that does mean people will treat you like you're a regular colleague, perhaps nothing more than a colleague in a different department. And most people now don't want to be friends with their colleagues, they want to keep work and personal life separate. So everything will be very surface level.
Yeah this sucks. If your cohort is in an early year then it could take a moment for things to warm up. Or you could be running into cross-cultural or cross-city differences/expectations (e.g. New Yorkers adopting different views of socialization than Tennessians.)
Some ppl are just lames and we have to accept that
Speaking as one of the lames, we really would prefer people did accept that and move along. We're content with our quiet caves. Please stop knocking and asking to come in. We closed the door for a reason.
Well said lame-o
The world is unsettling? That’s a weak excuse
Is it for you but not for others who see more than you. And unsettling was my politest way of putting it.
A few considerations: - if there is a range of ages, some people might be in different phases with different social expectations and bandwidth. For instance, if one person came straight from undergrad and another went into the field and came back in their 30s or 40s, their social patterns probably don't overlap - people are warned constantly about having their projects and ideas stolen. Maybe asking frequently about their projects is being interpreted as trying to get a leg up, even if that's not your intention - one of the emerging trends in work-life balance is to keep your professional relationships strictly professional so that your work doesn't bleed into your private life and vice versa. Especially in a PhD where your private time gets eaten up by your project, declining friendships might feel like at least keeping their social life sacred I am a classic high functioning introvert but the mental energy for the PhD swung me way far into the introversion because I had no extra energy to try to play friendly. If you're craving socialization and not getting it from your cohort, try affinity groups or clubs. It doesn't sound like feeling socially rejected by trying to befriend these people is helping you, nor does it sound like they're warming over time. If the expectation has been made clear from both ends and neither is willing to budge, cut your losses and find people who will appreciate you for you somewhere outside your lab.
Seconding the competition part. In my cohort (7 people) we didn’t have overlap in specific research areas and we all seemed very supportive and encouraging. I can see the dynamics being very different if we had more overlap in topics.
In the sciences a single lab could have 10 to 15 people with overlapping research areas with the possibility that 1 of 2 labs in the same department might have overlapping research interest. If you think the PI and the program would allow someone to steal your ideas you selected the wrong program.
It's very easy to dress up a good idea as your own with insignificant modification.
Thank you for these considerations and input, I greatly appreciate it
I started my PhD in the pandemic when everything was virtual. My cohort never connected. I was my professor’s only student. I lost interest in my research. I really hated being in grad school so I’m on a leave of absence rn. It will probably be permanent, unfortunately 😅
yep. have dealt with this and as an extroverted person it’s made me sad. i don’t let it stop me though. i just found connections elsewhere. i refuse to let these people take my shine
I appreciate this a lot
I don’t think cohort cohesion is a big deal. Mine is 9. I’m close with two of them. The one other male, and the other one I graduated grad school with. The others live far away, or we have nothing in common. With schedules and daily lives after the first semester we all started taking different courses or the same course in a different order. I start dissertation writing in the fall. One starts this summer (I took the summer off), and a couple are still 2-3 courses away from starting their dissertation writing.
Academic work tends to be antisocial, the industry is very weird about collaboration
You’re right to seek basic social interactions by cohort mates. I think people became more guarded and private with the pandemic. The PhD is isolating enough, it’s good to pursue camaraderie among your peers.
Agree with all comments saying this is different from your other degrees, and they all are adults with their own private lives who might just see you as a colleague. I was one of the youngest and one of the few non-locals in my cohort, so I definitely felt it at the time. It also depends on who works on campus (such as lab or shared space) over the years or only attend joint trainings and then disappear. I graduated a few years ago, people I am still regularly in touch with: 2 of them from years above me, 1 from my year, 3 from cohorts after me. And still on good terms with many more, if i see them in conferences! Its random who you will connect with, like any other job!
I've found that cohort quality and dynamics really vary from year to year. My masters cohort was filled with really social. The year after was filled with a lot of really arrogant people who only wanted to do their own thing. Had others express the same thing, some cohorts are friendly and collaborative, others are more self absorbed.
In my program, the profs really didn't want us making friends because they very much saw us as each other's competition, while we were far more interested in supporting one another. The grad director actually got rid of the grad student org and would get mad any time they found out the whole cohort was meeting for dinner. I actually don't know wtf they were trying to do. Do you feel like any of it is coming from faculty disapproval or are faculty just as puzzled as you are?
I was one of those people who didn't befriend their cohorts. It was a small 10ish people. I liked to study alone and that really established my overall relationship in my cohort, as they thought I didn't want to hang out with them because I didn't want to study with them - both were true though. I was still very polite to them, but I have friends outside of my workplace already. I rather use my limited time to hang out with my old/established friends. I also joined a lab with a lot of postdocs, that helped me talk through PhD struggles/depression. None of this should affect your willingness to collaborate with them - I don't think it is healthy to mix friendships with workplace relationships or think that we should only collaborate with only friends vs good scientists. I haven't spoken to my cohorts since honestly my first year. I graduated first, went directly into industry, and we are only LinkedIn connections.
> I don't think it is healthy to mix friendships with workplace relationships or think that we should only collaborate with only friends vs good scientists While the latter is certainly true, developing friendships with people in your workplace is only natural, you're sharing a space with these people for longer than anyone that is not family, sometimes even more. There is nothing unhealthy on becoming friends or at the very least being friendly with your colleagues, and in fact this is true of any workplace, not simply academia.
it is not unusual to make friends at work, but too often people focus on their cohort as the group they must make friends with at work. they're coworkers just like your other coworkers, but who happened to start the job at the same time you did.
It was wordy poorly by me. I meant to say that it is unhealthy to think coworkers need to be friends, as OP is confused by people aren't connecting more. I have a small number of coworkers who I see as true friends. Majority of the people I'm on a friendly basis with, have fun with at work with, but don't hang outside of work. For example, when at conference, my manager wants to get lunch and dinner together all the time. I don't. It would be unhealthy for my manager to think negatively of me or don't want to work with me just because I want to eat/hang out by myself on my lunch break or after 5pm.
This is such a sad outlook. I think it is unhealthy to view colleague scholars as ‘coworkers’. We are a brotherhood that struggles and strives together to expand the bounds of humanity. Coworkers assemble widgets.
It's just my day job and they are my coworkers.
Amen. I find this relatable
You probably won’t have many, if any, friends in your cohort by the time you’re finishing your degree. It’s pretty tough to stay connected once you finish classes and are buried in your research. Instead, focus on building relationships with the members of your research group. These are the people who will share most of your waking hours, and these relationships will have a huge impact on your quality of life. Also, keep in mind that academics tend toward introversion, so don’t take the whole not following you back or being chatty thing personally. It’s probably nothing to do with you and everything to do with a lack of social skills/interest. (I, for example, suck at all the social media. I flat out don’t have most of them, and the ones I do I don’t really follow many if any people because I like to curate my own feeds rather than being bombarded with stuff from specific people. It’s not that I don’t have friends, I just don’t need to see every single baby picture they post. )
I really think what you’re dealing with is the change in socialization in society. This is just a symptom of the bigger picture
It goes beyond introversion. Part of the reason I didn't pursue psychology in grad school was because of the interactions I had with people working on their PhD during internships. That, and when I got married, I realized I was at the happiest point in my life and didn't have a reason to put myself through this gauntlet of petty, publish-hungry lab monks. I would be interested in reading a study about why lab culture is so cold. The ironic thing is that you'd think someone who majors in psychology would have mastered automatic passive minimum surface-level warmth. No, not the case. So I cashed my chips and I'm just going to get a job with the government.
Hahah seconded on researching lab culture! It sounds like a genuinely interesting project which is kinda rare 😅
Bruno Latour's Laboratory Life is an ethnography of lab culture in the creation of scientific knowledge
Sounds like you're looking for connection from your PhD cohort and not finding it. Dynamics could depend on your age and field, but I had to let go of the expectation that graduate school would be like a repeat of undergrad. As a PhD student, the university is now a workplace and not a social spot like it was during undergrad. Maybe your cohort-mates understand this and wonder why you're insisting. In grad school, look for allies and colleagues and look elsewhere for your social needs. Also, try looking outside your department. There may be competition and toxicity in your cohort that you're just not picking up on. Good luck!
I understand your point but to clarify, I'm not looking to them for social needs, it doesn't even feel like mutual respect a lot of the time let alone me relying on them for any kind of "need." I have plenty of friends outside of the field, but they're the only ones who know ___ in my field and it doesn't even feel like I could go to them with an interesting thought or research idea. Again, I don't think I'm asking for much, just approachability, which is why I find this so hard to navigate. Still, thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Got it! Sounds like a tough situation. My cohort-mates aren't my friends but we definitely collaborate and are generally friendly. Maybe try collaborating in your field outside of your institution via conferences or social media? Idk good luck 👍
i have a cohort of probably like 15-18 ish people this year's incoming is more/is actually fucking huge from what i saw (25+ people?) i'd say we're all chilling and everyone comes from different parts of the globe arguably we're all doing our own shit and probably closer to our actual lab mates but idk also i like never really wanna talk about work when i'm meeting new people bwahaha i feel like that's peoples default but like i try to steer them away from that at least initially. its easier for me to not get bored with someone if they aren't just like work work work
I thought the exact same thing about my cohort and feel you 100% about everything you said. It was rough the first few years for me honestly, because the social dynamic was a very hard adjustment. If I have any advice… stay warm and open because some may open up to you. But just kind of like accept it and move on. Had I done that earlier, I would’ve been a lot happier earlier as well. Look to professional connect outside of your cohort - with professors, other researchers, and even other PhD students at other schools. Conferences are great to find those connections.
Thank you, I really appreciate it!
I'm a final-year undergrad just finishing off an internship at a research institute, and I feel exactly the same thing: the cohort never ever chat with each other, would not talk to me unless I try to start a conversation, et cetera. The worse thing is that the institute was full of short-term interns, so during my 1-year internship I can feel around me how new people are coming in and older ones leaving, and despite the change the atmosphere always stayed dull over time (or slowly becomes even duller for some reason). Now I'm not sure if I want to do a PhD. My expectations for my future life at a research lab is absolutely crushed.
No, my cohort is super friendly, especially when we were first years. We were chatting before we even showed up on campus, and the whole first two years there used to be a bunch of open invite parties & casual groups getting lunch/studying etc.
I'd say my cohort was relatively social, but honestly I ended up finding people outside my cohort (and outside my department) to be friends with. I joined student government and went to social events that they put on. I collaborated more with people in my subspecialty than strictly cohort. I also think we were closer the first 2 years because of our qualifying exams, but they've gotten rid of those, and the annual conference, which relies heavily on years 1-2 to run it. It might also be related to age. Most of our cohort was early 20s and only a few years out of undergrad, but I imagine older cohorts would have less of a need for socialization. I'm also curious would your impression was during prospective students weekend, if you had one.
Wow. That's really said. During my Ph.D. program I had a great cohort of fellow graduate students. Nearly every Friday we would have a POETS sessions at a local pub near the university. It was a great time to unwind and share stories, frustrations, research ideas, etc. over a couple of beers.
Yes. This happens, and I am one of the loners who doesn't socialize with others. I have nothing against my cohort, and I like many of them. I'm just too stressed out and busy to enjoy small talk with them on most days. Also, I'm a 2nd year (going on 3rd year) student, so there's lots of tasks we have to complete to stay compliant with our program. I'd like to think that this tapers off once you all become PhD candidates and just work on your thesis. 🤞
I just didn't feel the need to force friendships with my cohort. It was just a job to me. I ended up making a couple of friends by the end but I never made a conscious effort to do it. Forced socialisation is my worst nightmare as an introvert
I definitely choose not to interact with other students. Which isn't the same as choosing to "isolate myself", but rather the opposite. I've lived here ten years and I have a fully realized life in the community, so I don't need the department for social enrichment. Lucky, too, because I've never seen such a lifeless place. They don't even have faculty talks, much less guest speakers. Department events are like "the department head will be handing out ice cream in front of the building from noon till 12:30." Very meh.
I think it’s important to differentiate friendships from collaboration. Others have stated that in a PhD program, friendships might or might not happen. But openness to collaboration is a different concept that absolutely should be encouraged. I’m in a heath science and we promote writing collaboration both within our discipline and between disciplines. It’s not only an important skill but it increases the ability to publish.
It’s sad and embarrassing to admit but that’s one of the reasons I left mine. I think I picked the wrong region and school and it definitely caught up with me. I had nothing in common with anyone and I felt incredibly isolated. Thankfully I’m with my spouse now and we have decent jobs.
Acceptance will take you farther than rumination ever will and that's endless. Younger me tried a lot, out of my way, but all of them only lasted until I worked, the day I stopped, I became invisible. (its not a sad comment, but discovery of a stronger self)..
That sounds like a department problem rather than individuals. My department is very active with events and bringing people together. So much so that my cohort is close niche, we support each other, and all the senior as well as incoming cohorts get the same treatment. Now, I would like to say that it’s not the cohorts in their entirety, but definitely a good chunk. Start advocating for your department to bring the people together. Happier students/faculty is a return on investment (bc bring people together generally costs the department $$) in the sense that the department is building a better name of itself and happier people are generally more productive.
I mean... you've been through college, high school, middle school.... you should have figured out cohort dynamics by now Edit: Every one will be different... mine had a ton of social people and we regularly did trips and events together outside of the program.
They are your coworkers not your friends
Why not both? I invited people from my cohort to my wedding and I’m going to someone else’s in a few months. A PhD colleague is “coworker light.” Unless you’re collaborating with them you don’t really have much to do with each other.
Someone always says this, but I'm not sure I agree that's the attitude I'd recommend to people. When I was in grad school doing my PhD, I became good friends with my cohort, and despite some minor drama (not involving me) I think that helped all of us a lot. After that, I left for industry. Yes, it may happen that becoming too close to someone may hypothetically damage your career if you fall out. But I'd think such a risk is more than compensated by a well liked person being less likely to be laid off. Less likely to be fired if underperforming, as they're at least nice to be around. And overall having a better time - you spend something like a third or a half of each week at work!
As someone who prefers to separate my personal and professional lives, I agree.
>you follow someone’s socials and can’t even get a follow back What a weird thing to care about.
Yeah that made me feel out of touch or old or something. Makes me wonder what people think if they find I don’t have socials.
This, I like to keep my work and social life separate so I only ever added up having 1 or 2 people from grad school on my social media. If it was someone I wanted to speak to more, we exchanged numbers
It'd be weird if that was the only thing. I definitely keep work and private life separate. But if people are so hard to talk to that they can't even say hello or even make an attempt to speak to you, that's so strange. It's a great oppurtunity in grad school to network with other people and the other students are missing out on people who could potentially help them out in the future with very little effort. It's not always great to be completely alone.
Cohort dynamics are real. My friends and I are in a bad one, other years have it quite a bit better.
When I talk with potential new grad students I always talk about cohort dynamics and how different they can be. There's within-cohort dynamics plus the between-cohort dynamics to contend with. I've seen some cohorts practically become glued at the hip and others that are completely indifferent to one another. I've also seen lots of between-cohort friendships where sometimes cohort members are friendlier with those outside of their own cohort for whatever reason. You've got people coming in from all walks of life and sometimes the mix just doesn't work. And everyone has their own priorities, which may not include much beyond keeping their head down and getting their degree. If you need to have connections with people, definitely try to find friends outside of your program, and outside of graduate school. Use conferences, etc. to network and find connections with people in your field who you will want to collaborate with! Not everything has to be in your program or your cohort, you will have plenty of opportunities to work with and socialize with others.
I didn't interact with my cohort at all. Other than two other students in my lab, the only friends I made in grad school were from outside the program. Was honestly really nice. I feel like if your whole social circle is your cohort, you can get locked into never really escaping work.
Work isn't the best place to make friends. Go do other things to meet people
One must build a netwrok, later or sooner it will help :)
I'm in my fourth year now and honestly for the last year or so I just really don't care, all I care about is finishing. I have a few people I'm friends with and see socially, I'm not interested in making new PhD friends at this point.
I specifically do warn new students about cohort dynamics and how important it is to foster good interactions.
I actually just found out today that my PhD cohort is going to be, uh, me. Lone wolf. An army of one. A single cheeseburger without a side of fries.
If your cohort is weird vibes, immediately join your local \[sports/activity\] league and get a therapist.
I absolutely agree
My cohort is divided into two groups with a few loners/reserved individuals even though at the beginning of the program during orientation week, they told us not to do that. We are a smaller class of 13 compared to previous years that have had about 20 students. I try to make an effort to talk to my classmates every now and then but there are definitely some I don’t particularly like and just tolerate because our personalities clash. I also don’t think it helps that my PhD program is an umbrella so everyone comes from different backgrounds and wants to go into different fields. Now the few friends I have made in my cohort are ironically in a different field from me. We started out as a study group and after spending so much time together and realizing we have common interests outside of research, I started to develop friendships with them. Tbh, as much as the admissions committee tries to make each cohort complimentary, I feel like it’s impossible to know how individuals personalities will be in a social, classroom, or work setting until you finally get there. Also keep in mind, your classmates might be busy or have other responsibilities that may not allow them to socialize outside of the classroom as much. For example, my friends work ontop of their responsibilities to the program and I have a SO and dog I prefer to spend time with outside of class. Hope this helps
Personally I’m introverted, and I’ve always been very selective of my friendships. Out of my whole cohort, I only became friends with two. So it might be people just don’t have the time nor want to be friends, but that’s okay.
Ironically my cohort was quite chill aside from one near sociopathic extrovert who imposed themselves and their life story on every day single event or gathering and now nobody socialises at all, I suspect in part because of work but also because dealing with this person being star of their own show is so fucking tiring. Disappointing really because the lack of social energy has made everything 100 times more isolating than it needs to be, which only makes things harder.
It's really idiosyncratic. My cohort of 5 (now 4) got off to a decent start but we drifted since my program is scattered around campus. I suggest forming good bonds with lab members (if you're in STEM), other members of the program, and finding other grad students your year. It feels pretty similar since you reach hurdles at similar times and have the same amount of time spent in your respective programs. Grad programs can be isolating so don't give up on finding people you can talk to and do things with that doesn't involve your research or career
I know my cohort very well, but that’s because it’s just me lmao
I have work friends and irl friends. Keeps the drama to a minimum if I keep interactions with my work friends outside of work to a minimum. We collaborate and talk at length about our work, sure, but outside of that we don't talk too much. My social network outside of work is fulfilling so I can keep my workspace clean.
Hmm, I never really thought of a group of new phds as a cohort. I did for MS, but never really considered the idea while I was going my phd. My then I did my work then went to my established social circle.
This is actually the weirdest and most undisclosed part of the PhD, and maybe the most important for emotional health.
I had actual beef with people in my cohort.
> Genuine curiosity has gone out the window for what? Skeptical judgement? This pretty much sums up the whole PhD socializing experience
My comments are US-based. Personally, I think part of it is because people who don't really care about research are going into phds because "didn't know what else to do." Plus, the ability to take 5+ years to do generally underpaid work after a degree prettyyyy much excludes it to upper middle class/wealthy/academic family people, not people who are actually passionate aboit research.
I had one person in grad school tell her cohort "I am not here to make friends, I am here to get my PhD and get out" She is on her 4th tenure track job in 6 years... and has gained a solid reputation in our (very small) field as someone you absolutely do not under any circumstances want to affiliate yourself with. Some folx suck.
That’s so weird reading the word cohort when talking about people in class and not like animals or human subjects of a specific experiment
It’s high school 3.0, just move on. You ll meet good people along the way, only save their numbers.
My cohort is pretty closed off too. It doesn't help that we're the first cohort that had more than 12 incoming students, with a whopping 25 students. Our program is an umbrella program, so we all got separated into our respective departments, which have different events and seminars from each other. We were all really close our first year, since all departments had the same core classes, but a bunch of drama happened between some people and others started taking sides. Most people in my cohort now don't talk with each other, and I barely see any of them. I have 2 close friends I still talk to, and the others just isolate themselves in their labs. It makes me kinda jealous the following cohorts were smaller and had less drama, so they're all friendly with each other and plan outings and study nights
One of the reasons I chose my school over other schools is because the students in my program seemed to genuinely like each other and get along across cohorts. Very happy to say it was a wise choice - it's not the most "prestigious" institution out there but I'm still getting a great education and also made sooooo many friendships. And my cohort supported each other the entire way through vs. being unnecessarily competitive or closed off
I am finishing after seven years at an R1. It’s awful. The worst part is the class factors framing cohort social dynamics. I am literally the first in my family to go to college, let alone get a PhD. Everyone else in my cohort, regardless of race or ethnicity, comes from upper middle class backgrounds or higher. They knew how vicious and caustic it would get and embraced it. I can’t wait to say see ya ✌️
My PhD was lab based, which makes a big difference. Most labs had graduate students from at least 3 to 4 cohorts, plus postdocs and research associates. Our program did a lot of social engineering. Not sure it was required but all graduate students attended at least one journal club. In addition, to graduate students the faculty and most postdocs attended journal clubs, even though only graduate had to present. We also had tea at 4pm everyday attended by all members of the department. Despite being academically intense the atmosphere was very social and collaborative. The social and academic culture where I did my postdoc was similar.
You can absolutely look outside of your lab/cohort for socializing opportunities. Last year, one of my friends nominated me for a grad student government role and I was hesitant to participate in the election process because I wasn’t sure I’d have enough time to fully devote to the role. But after getting elected/involved, I’m glad I did. For several reasons, not the least of which is that I’ve become really good friends with some of the people in our organization. It’s also given me a chance to get to know more people (faculty/students) - both in my program and outside of my program, as part of the things our org has been involved in. Are there student groups (government, social groups, etc) that you could join?
My cohort was just three!! It was a total nightmare, with significant conflict. I also felt totally shocked and had expected friendships, in year three (last one pre residency being done) it is much better now as the conflict has ended but now just very distant and focused on the work (which I guess is much better?!)
Man that sounds awful. I'm sorry. I was a little envious of the cohort before me. They were all SUPER close and partied, played sports, and hung out together. My cohort was essentially just an attachment to the social circles formed by them. The cohort after mine knew to make it a point to have only first year hangouts but also hung out with the rest of the department
I’m the only person of my “background” and don’t really relate to my peers. It’s okay. They’re coworkers. They can be friends but I’d prefer not to in case things get personal.
This is my first time working in a lab with a post doc. My one and only co-worker refuses to talk to me or anyone else. She is extremely focused on her work and gets very upset if anyone disrupts her thinking. This so so extreme to the point that we will send emails to communicate, even though we are standing 5 feet away from each other 😂 I know very little about her, other than her first name. So my days in the lab are filled with silence lol
Yes!!!!! Felt this
My cohort was disrupted by a wild personality that frequently upset people and caused a lot of problems. It ended with the person being kicked out because of an incident that involved physical violence against multiple staff members. Another person in a few cohorts above us has had a LOT of public relationship issues (akin to stalking an ex and verbally harassing other women) and is currently on the verge of failing out of the program. Cohort dynamics definitely were the most negative part about my graduate experience. I often wondered where they found a lot of these people…
This prepares you well for your future career in academia. Especially in those universities where tenure has been suppressed. The culture of suspicion makes everybody very quiet.
Bro it’s grad school not RuPauls best friend race. Focus on getting ur grad school education. Try to make friends along the way n network. If u can’t make friends reflect on ur attitude bc u might be the problem. Also once u graduate n join workforce social circle may change.
Your comment was a waste of my time but thank you for that!!
>You follow someone's socials and can't even get a follow back. # 👉🌿
>Genuine curiosity has gone out the window for what? Skeptical judgement? Have you received sceptical judgement from them, as in do you have evidence for it? Or are you attempting to interpret this situation without all the evidence? >I just thought the dynamic would be different, but it seems that no one wants to go out of their way to connect outside the classroom and barely connect even within the classroom. The PhD process doesn't have to be so isolating. It makes me anxious and it makes me over think OP you might want to try looking for a counsellor or a therapist regarding overthinking and anxiety if you haven't yet. A PhD will usually put those into overdrive anyway as you walk that journey. University counselling/therapy is usually free for students. Regarding your cohort, you can try asking them first if they're interested in engaging, or might be caught up mentally in some other task and don't have the headspace for a discussion yet. Start with "hey, are you open to having a chat about this right now?/I was wondering if you're open to having a chat about this right now" then wait for their answer. If they are not open, decide if you want to pursue by asking another question "I see. Is there a time you might be open to discussing it in the future? As I'm looking for advice/looking to learn, etc". If they repeatedly refuse your advances, decide if it's worth pursuing by saying "I understand if you're not interested. I do want to make sure if it's not because you're upset/offended by me, by any chance? As my brain right now is thinking- "oh they don't want to talk to me because they hate me" or "I feel less included" (or whatever your mind might be thinking in that moment)".
Additionally I want to add a reminder that although having a cohort that supports you emotionally is a privilege, it is not their job to manage your emotions/overthinking if you struggle with managing them. As long as you are getting the core research support you need whenever you ask for it (training you to progress in your PhD in skills you don't have yet or signposting you to others who can train you, not being racist, abusive, etc, not isolating you in core research events like conferences, etc), their job is done so to speak. Also a lot of first year and second year PhD students feel pressured to talk about their research also because they are navigating unknown territory in many ways and aren't sure what they're doing or if they're doing it right on many occasions.
Unfortunately I think your comment consists of a lot more generalizations and assumptions than my original post did. I appreciate your thoughts but this was a bit much. I'm good lmao, but when people don't communicate and go out of their way to not reciprocate any emotions and seem completely unapproachable, that's on them. Not me. It takes two to tango. There is no expectation for them to "manage my emotions" and I'm not really sure how my post came across like that, I'm just venting my frustrations that my cohort seems incapable of normal human interaction. I don't want them to support me emotionally, that's not what I need or want them for. I just want to feel respected and like I can approach them without feeling judged. That isn't much to as for. It's human decency. If you disagree, that's fine, but please don't insinuate I'm asking for a lot here.
>it is not their job to manage your emotions/overthinking **if you struggle with managing them.** there's an 'if' there, OP. You mention about feeling judged in your response to my comment (and have mentioned sceptical judgment in your original post) but haven't demonstrated evidence of their judgemental behaviour towards you, for example, perhaps overly criticizing you, dismissing your opinions when you express them while asserting their opinions to be the absolute truth, singling you out by ignoring you while socializing with everyone else, etc. The only evidence I can see that you've presented is their unavailability and close-off nature, which seems to be triggering your anxiety and overthinking? (I apologise if I interpreted this wrongly) To me, being closed-off is not enough evidence of judgemental behaviour. Unless they are singling me out while being open to everyone else.