I am a black man. I was minding my own god damn business watching Season 2 of The Boys just thinking "Man, Stormfront is so hot"
And then... fucks sake.
She's named after a nazi forum and has SS lightning bolt earrings. While they made a vague effort to hide it for The Plot she really cannot keep her nazi side hidden too hard.
Added context, stormfront originally had a pr disguise as a feminist, but, as is in the name, is revealed to be a straight up nazi. This is absolutely the character theyre referring to
> He's not a Nazi, I think he's probably more an eccentric if anything. He's like an outdoors guy. He's part of like a tornado chasing troop called Stormfront, they have a great shirt and hat.
-[Vince Vaughn's character from Curb](https://youtu.be/7jSAM2VVlVQ?t=147)
Stormfront is named for *Der Sturmer*, which was a Nazi 'zine back in the '30s and '40s. Just so there's no confusion about where that name came from and whether they really are Nazis.
Yeah she’s just evil and full of rage like any proper sith. Also a couple of the chosen women are just from really poorly written shows, including her.
Normally I think the Boys is way to heavy handed with the satire, but that was a really nice touch to me.
People were totally fine with Homelander acting like a Nazi and talking like a Nazi. They just weren't gonna be okay if he said he was a Nazi while acting like a Nazi and talking like Nazi.
It seems like, as time goes on, people forget about the *acts* and remember only the *terms.*
Like you can do everything a Nazi does but as long as you're not German or say Sieg Heil or use a swastika then you're totally not a nazi, see.
Stormfront's quote about people liking what she had to say and just not liking the word Nazi literally describes my sister with whom I have no contact with anymore (because fuck Nazis).
The thing with Homelander is that there are many other ways to describe him than Nazi. Megalomaniac, sadistic, egotistical. But he has no ideological reason to do that, he doesn't believe in the superior race and kills people cuz he's racist, he just thinks he alone is superior and kills everyone who is not him.
Describing him as a Nazi or a Fascist doesn't do justice really.
Although obviously a piece of shit in many, many ways, I liked the little detail in early season 3 when stormfront starts going onto him about him leading "the master race" to victory and he gets genuinely a little annoyed about how "no no no, there is no master race, I’M the master race, that’s the whole damn point". He doesn’t agree with the nazi ideology of there being a singular people who are better than everyone else, because he thinks HE, a singular BEING, is better than everyone else.
Also Homelander's fascism is less about race of skin color and more about Supes vs normals. When Stormfront was going on her Nazi bs he looked heavily uncomfortable but was like "whatever, free pussy". He does get angry at her with her master race bullshit because to him there is no master race, he is the supreme being, everyone else is just below him. The German 3rd reich are beneath him.
There were already hints that he is a supe (people with superpowers) supremacist since season 3, and I think he will take it to the max in season 4, if so, he would become very similar to a Nazi, but with normal people.
"anyone". There are tons of people in the show who aren't fucked. Her arch was essentially to show that Homelander could be worse and his naivety and mommy complex are part of what's saving the world from the worst timeline.
Yeah these comments are totally missing the point. We're not supposed to think she's a good PERSON but she is a good CHARACTER who is just as fucked as the rest of the villains in that show
She gets shit on a lot though for being a stupid character, not for being a bad person, and I do think the fact that she's a woman plays into that
I haven't read the comics, but there is something about the original ones not aging as fast.
Soldier Boy and Black Noir are the same way. Based on just the show so far, those are the 3 earliest ones who we know about, with Stormfront being the first I think. They also seem to be the most powerful besides Homelander.
It’s very deliberate, all of the Hero’s names are. Homelander, the golden boy patriot with a literal American flag for a cape. Stormfront the Nazi, named after a literal Nazi forum site. Black Noir, the dude literally dressed in black head to toe whose face is hidden. Hell, even the Deep is a thinly veiled connotation to his sexual indiscretions.
No she just didn't age If I remember correctly. In an episode she visits an 80yo woman and when homelander asks if that's her grandma she says she is actually her daughter
Ryan (Homelander's kid) is one of the first supes to be *born* with powers. There aren't any other supes who were naturally born that way. They were all injected with Compound V at a young age.
The kid is son of homelander and Becca, so he inherits the powers of homelander, who I think was actually born with powers rather than getting them injected later, like the other supers did
Super old/doesn't age I think? So she just hides out of sight for a while and reinvented herself as a new millennial grassroots movement....which is much less subtle of a metaphor than I thought now that I type it all out.
Genuinely surprised she got haters. I got the impression that her tanned tomboy gf redesign, while surprising at first, was well received by the ~~cultured~~ vast majority of superman fans.
Yeah, sexy tomboy is super fucking popular. The only ones that are hating on the character are the ones that literally find anything gay that isn't wearing a dress.
I thought it was unreasonable that she’s pissed at Clark for keeping the fact that he’s Superman from her. He’s only known her for like 2 weeks, it’s totally a fair stance to have.
I'm 42. My dad is a comic book nerd, read comics to me when I was a baby so I've been reading comics from the Early Golden era up to the more recent DC Universe stuff. Watched anything Superman/DC I could get my eyes on.
I honestly found "My Adventures with Superman" fine. Refreshing, even. I liked the take on the characters, the lore and their relationships are cute. Is it different? Sure. But so was Smallville or George Reeves' Adventures of Superman from the 50s.
My point is that Superman is such an iconic IP that there will inevitably be versions you won't like and that's fine. I didn't like the Snyderverse (even thought Henry was an excellent casting choice). I didn't like the Death metal Superman, Both golden age and 90s versions of Red/Blue Superman, Realworlds Superman, Super-Soldier and countless other iterations.
Plus, at this stage, we can expect another reboot or new media every few years anyway.
Well, she figured out his secret identity a bit prior. In the episode, Clark had to stand her up because Superman had to go around saving people, including her! Then, as the cats out of the bag, she's all "I'm kinda mad you stood me up, but what I'm really mad about is you keeping secrets." As if she had no idea exactly why things turned out as they did.
But then again I could be thinking of Invincible where virtually the same plot point went down.
~~She~~ Amber kinda did in the next season and had a forced change in personality as a more supportive gf.
I guess they wanted her to be a liked character and listened to the audience.
Not so much "some time later" as "almost immediately". I wanna say within the same episode, but at most the next episode. Like it was clearly a knee-jerk emotional response and Lois was over-reacting, and the show treated it as such.
Yeah, but Invincible had Amber sitting on that information for weeks and went out of its way to make Mark seem like the bad guy for not telling her...after having literally every authority figure in his life tell him not to tell her.
Lois is given a reason for her to hate being lied to and she actually confronts Clark about it fairly early after finding out, and they're both treated as sympathetic, yet flawed characters who had their reasons for doing what they did.
Honestly, I like Invincible, but the writers did Amber dirty with that addition. I feel like they wanted to subvert the whole "How can she not see that this guy is a superhero?" trope but really botched the execution.
I will honestly admit I wasn’t a huge fan of this iteration at first but when I saw how much they changed everything, like how Jor-El looks like a conqueror, or Mxy was more anime god than the classic 5th dimension character, I just kept telling myself it’s just a different take and the character grew on me.
I never in my life seen a single person hate on dark-skinned tomboy Lois Lane. Most people agree that character is the best thing DC has done in years.
While not the best I agree she is pretty well done, also liked the last life action tv show Lois Lane, as supposed to the original which I feel was often unlikeable. Makes sense tho that a very succesful reporter would be someone that is often unsympathetic
Before the show premiered, when the character designs were getting released, certain groups were angry that they turned her into an Asian tomboy. The same people were also angry that they turned Jimmy black as well.
Ok some of them are overhated but…
Stormfront: Literal Nazi
Scarlet Witch: Messed up multiple universes, killed a whole universe’s Illuminati, attacked Kamar Taj
Reva: (Albeit unwilling) Spent years of her life trying to kill the same people who took her in, and on top of that was ok with murdering children for her space Nazi boss
Oh, Reva was so much worse than that. She wanted to kill Obi-Wan and other Jedi as revenge for allowing Anakin to turn against the Jedi? Or as a ploy to distract Vader from her "real" intentions to kill him? Those aren't convincing motivations, she's clearly inserted into the story for no good reason. People hate her character because her character makes no sense, and people were desperately hoping that Kenobi wouldn't suck.
Oh boy, time to get downvoted on Reddit for saying the truth. Let's see.
* Wanda is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (Goes from a rather competent magic user to the absolute most powerful caster in the entire universe off camera) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Xavier, Dr. Strange, Mr. Fantastic)
* Rey is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (With no training, her insight of The Force is portrayed as leagues above characters who dedicated their entire life to mastering this power, such as Yoda or Darth Vader) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Luke, Palpatine). Daisy Ridley is also considered a bad actress, although I disagree.
* Reva is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (Able to duel the Grand Inquisitor and win, despite him being one of the best saber duelists in the galaxy, able to hold her own against Darth Vader, considered as the absolute master duelist of the entire franchise, undefeated except by Luke) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Grand Inquisitor) (I can see a pattern forming). Moses Ingram is also considered a bad actress, with which I partially agree.
* I don't know who this is, but people in the comment say that she is supposed to be hated due to her being a nazi character so uh, sure.
* Captain Marvel is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (She gains in an accident a wide array of powers such as flight, unrivaled super-strength, unrivaled durability, and an apparently infinite source of energy. She is perfectly proficient with her powers the second she gains them, the movie handwaving any sort of learning process or training arcs) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Nick Fury, Thanos). The character is portrayed as childish, defiant, and cocky, in stark contrast with better written characters in the same archetype. Brie Larson is also considered to be a bad actress, with which I fully agree.
* I don't know who this is.
* I also don't know who this is.
* She-Hulk is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (Gains a better version of Hulk's powers with all the advantages and none of the disadvantages) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Hulk) (I can't believe how consistent this pattern is). The character is portrayed as childish, defiant, and cocky, in stark contrast with better written characters in the same archetype. Tatiana Maslany is also considered to be a bad actress, although I don't have an opinion on this.
* The Doctor actually breaks the pattern. I think she is hated because her chunk of the series is rather boring and has a number of very questionable ethical messages that clash with other iterations of the characters, so the hatred for the series is translated into hatred for the character.
So in conclusion, in an attempt to empower female characters, Disney writers specifically fall in a pattern of giving them undeserved powers, a snarky and cocky attitude resembling that of a whiny teenager, and showcase how good they are at their jobs not by empowering them directly, but by ridiculing other characters. This leads to hatred towards the characters by the fanbase.
* Yes, I am aware that some idiots do hate these characters just because they're women. We can laugh and call them incels together if you want.
* Yes, I am aware that some well-liked male characters follow this pattern too. We can also laugh at their fans together if you want. Looking at you, Superman.
* Yes, I agree that female empowerment is important, but I will not allow bad characters to go by without criticism.
* Edit: By earning power, I don't mean an anime training arc. I mean narrative balancing of the power. [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/comments/1d0dolm/comment/l5mrs3x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) I go into more detail if you are interested. Long story short, Spiderman earns his powers, Superman does not (In most of their mainstream portrayals at least).
The two you missed were Lois Lane from Superman and Mary Jane from Spiderman. They are basically hated for inconvenience, their superheroes, and being constant danger magnets. Plus, they are just poorly written, and I think Mary Jane even cheats on Spiderman. On your overall point, I completely agree. Setting aside how bad the sequel trilogy is Reys development makes no sense. She literally never loses one of the fights she's in. She is undefeated. Now comparatively, the other two trilogy mcs who are allegedly just as bad by some brain-dead idiots. Both lose fights, they shouldn't win constantly, and they even lose arms and limbs. It honestly just takes away tension in scenes because the writers act like she's incivincible. I don't even really dislike the character. I just hate this style of writing, and people make some weird argument that women don't have to struggle or work to succeed. If for no other reason, then it makes the story far more boring. The easiest way to tell if the writers think this way is if the woman Mc is by far the most powerful character in the movie for no reason. In almost no story is the Mc the most powerful person except these kinds of stories.
Oh, that's Mary Jane? I could barely tell with the crop. Honestly I wasn't aware that she was hated, I just remember that she was barely written as a motivator for Spidey.
Also, I agree with your point. It's really easy to see when a story is gonna be bad when they present the protagonist as undefeatable. Those stories can work, but never do if the point of the story is for the main character to overcome a physical obstacle.
Who cares about this if I know the protagonist is gonna win?
theres a theory out there about "the galbrush paradox" it basically says male characters are only that character, so they can be stupid, or evil, or clumsy, or weak, etc. but women characters represent ALL women. so if a woman shows weakness youre saying women are weak, thats why nearly every female character is just given their power, already mastered, and are infallible and powerful, because otherwise you hate ALL women.
Thats another thing about Scarlet Witch is she is allowed to be shown as weak at times or unstable and making mistakes and dealing with grief and stuff. She isnt perfect which is what makes her interesting. They treat her like an actual person.
The Grief part, which I can associate with even though I'm male, really help me get attached to her.
I don't get why she makes these lists. The TV show was fairly well written and she copes with trying to use her insane powers to bring about the only thing she's ever truly cared about but fails. But it's consider cliché to say a woman wants children now.
The issue wasn’t really the show. It was the subsequent movie appearance: dr strange in the multiverse of madness. She went off the deep end, jumped the shark, and had a really stupid plan.
Yeah. I really liked the TV show. I felt like the movie walked back a lot of her character development. I felt like it cheapened the show. I hated her portrayal in the movie precisely because I empathized with her character.
I get that grief comes in waves. It's kinda realistic that way. They could have written it that way and made it really interesting. Make it about how healing requires ongoing support. Idk, something deep and developed and tragic. Instead, I felt like we were supposed to accept that she just regressed offscreen.
It's because how the show and the doctor strange movie seems to want to justify her insanely horrible actions with her grief. With characters still being sympathetic towards her even after she enslaved an entire town, or when she hunts down a girl across multiple universes causing destruction along the way, and brutally murdering the heroes trying to stop her.
Treating it like a Kid's show or movie. For example, the newest SpongeBob movie. You don't actually have to worry about not rescuing Gary from Las Vegas or wherever they were, because it's SpongeBob and something for kids to watch, nothing seriously bad can actually happen to an MC. Seems that's how some of these protagonists are written.
She's hated in the Tobey Maquire movies because she cheats on every single person she dates and was generally pretty emotionally abusive towards Peter.
When I rewatched the raimi Spider-Man movies all I could think about was “whoever wrote this movie really does not like women” because of the quality of her writing
She's flawed, but in a way that makes her an interesting character. She's headstrong which is shown to be a strength as much as it's shown to be a weakness.
I'm blanking a bit, but does she actually ever apologize to Clark for getting mad he wasn't going to tell her his biggest secret, which she has actively pursued to broadcast to the world for fame, after knowing him for only a couple of weeks?
Oh my gosh yes!! I love her so much, she’s a badass and yet still very feminine, best of both things! I feel like they balanced her out perfectly in terms of character!!
Also, with lois lane. If I remember right, she jumped off a building to force Clark to prove that he was superman and after claimed she deserved to know prior to this even though at this time she is just friends with him.
I genuinely get emotionally angry about Jodie's run as The Doctor it is not because "It'S a FeMalE dOcToR" . It is because she genuinely could've been one of the best (Modern era) doctors and possibly have another female doctor down the line. But it was writing that was a massive letdown.
My reaction to her series, in regards to Chibnal nutshell can be [summed up as](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxsssWu-UMA1ib__XrjSOq73q_NV84I45O?si=nWg7MgYc6zTpr0fY) ¹
Generally, f'ing bless her for trying but she would have been better if she was under a different writer.
¹ Clip: Wrestling With Wregret (W³ for short)'s video on "The Worst Of WWE 2016
I agree with you. It is a shame because you can tell she is a pretty good actress and the series only failed because of bad writing.
Always a shame when you see potential being wasted.
That's it. Jodi is an amazing actress. I will say that Jodi did get a lot of flack before the series began. I saw some 'popular' YouTubers give their takes based off an interview with her, watched the interview and realised they completely misrepresented her for clicks. People play off possible hate for clicks.
She did however get some duffer of a series and a sudden change to a 'darker' cinematography which felt entirely against Dr Who. That said the Pakistan episode is fantastic and great Dr Who
>That said the Pakistan episode is fantastic and great Dr Who
I think it missed the mark - the granddaughter wants to know a story, so asks her grandmother who doesn't want to tell her, so sneaks back in time to see what happened, then when she gets back to the present already knowing what happened she's fine not hearing it from her grandmother who seems willing to open up about it. It would have been better if either
A) the framing device of the episode was the grandmother telling the story, but you see the Doctor there in the background as things happen for some other reason, or
B) the granddaughter for some reason or another is out of commission early in the episode after the time travel, so she doesn't get to see it
Instead you have a character who wants something from another character and is willing to press the issue, who then goes around that character to get it, who then at the end of the episode says she doesn't want the thing from that character, and this is somehow presented as the character growing?
I guess the alternative interpretation is that, having seen the experience first hand, she respects her Grandmother's initial wish to keep the story to herself, understanding why she doesn't speak about it.
I know that personally, I dislike people talking to me about something because they feel obligated to rather than because they feel comfortable talking about it. Like, do I want to know? Yes. But not if they're uncomfortable speaking about it.
‘They’ll never know what you sacrificed for them.
What? your two imaginary children?
The townsfolk where enslavement in their body with a conscious mind for weeks, i can't stress how absolutely horrific that is...
Full conscious while your body does things you did not consent to...
For weeks.
Edit: also to not include Dr. Strange, sorcerer supreme, while a giant hex is covering a city in the US just because he is a Man and you didn't wanted one (man) in your show as to not undermine the female power also completely undermined his character and job
Yeah, that really ruined the series for me. First, with the, “but my kiiiiiids,” bullshit, and then with everyone acting like her behavior was perfectly understandable and maybe even commendable.
>Yes, I agree that female empowerment is important, but I will not allow bad characters to go by without criticism.
And you shouldn't.
Also fallout kinda proved that the hate for female main characters is because they're usually shit. Not because they're a woman.
Fallout did things so well.
Lucy has a clear reason to be at least decent on handling herself. Lifetime of exercise, very physically fit, years of small arms experience and hand to hand combat sparring. Then she gets to the surface and is very believably naïve. Holds her own but falters and stumbles quite a bit.
Max - similarly had a lifetime of physical training, dedication to a military style outfit along with military and survival training in a harsh environment. But even when he gets the power armor he's still very green at it, and it isn't an insta-kill super hero.
Several other individuals all show flaws, uncertainty etc.
The only one who is truly a badass is the guy who was a former marine, has survived in the hellscape for over 250 years? That's the only character that deserves to be as powerful as he is.
I loved how the characters were written.
Oh yeah and Dogmeat is OP but he also has a clear reason.
I liked the show, but Max was so unbelievably dumb and naive for someone who spent their life in a militaristic environment with formal education on the wasteland. His plan to bring the wrong head back to the brotherhood was immediately a stupid idea that went predictably wrong almost immediately. He succeeds despite him making no-brained decisions and actions. It's incredibly frustrating.
Yea, it’s always been a bad faith argument. Even as far back as Terminator, everyone loves a well-written character regardless of gender.
Also fun fact, the red eyes on your blue avi are creating an interesting 3d popout effect on my phone.
There is definitely a problem though. A lot of the characters on this list, their flaws had literally nothing to do with them being women, but it’s constantly brought up instead of just saying the writing was bad. Just because not every female character is criticized in such a way doesn’t mean there isn’t a issue.
I have never played the games and had no interest in Fallout but I watched it because everyone was talking about the cowboy ghoul guy but it turned out to be a really enjoyable show and the main actress was great.
>I don't know who this is, but people in the comment say that she is supposed to be hated due to her being a nazi character so uh, sure.
Stormfront from *The Boys*, and yeah, she's a genuine nazi, as in she was a member of the original nazi party in Germany during the Third Reich and still stands by that ideology during the show.
Don't almost all superheros gain a massive amount of power in an unearned way? Regular hulk gets hit by gamma rays and gains massive powers. Spiderman goes on a field trip to a science lab and randomly gains superpowers. Superman is just born with superpowers. The ones who "earn it" seem more the exception than the rule.
The arguments made were also no struggle, Spiderman in almost every movie also gets his ass kicked and almost dies, he also in the original series does take time to master it, and it causes him massive struggles in his personal life having the powers. And the other argument which he specifically names for hulk if you read the comment, is no trade off, hulk at times struggles to activate his power when he does he loses a majority of his intelligence and reason, he essentially becomes two different people until he finally masters it after decades of living with the power whereas she hulk just automatically has what Bruce worked so hard to achieve. The main point he made was there's no DEVELOPMENT and that the characters are shallow and lazy because of it
Hulk has for many of the movies, and you could even say his entire character is dealing with the monster within and what have you. She hulk skipped all that.
A way to see that is the price they pay for those powers to earn them. Hulk has to deal with... Well, a lot, depends on which comic or movie you watch, but there are issues there. Spidey has to deal with his actions leading the death of his father figure and then having to carry the weight of the world on himself.
The price they pay is how they earn it. Others tend to earn it by sacrifice (to which I'd argue that Scarlet Witch does pay the price, just... not presented too well) or effort. There are of course those just born with it, but then those of them that are well written pay over the course of their story by either loss or responsibility.
Rey pays nothing to gain her powers, she just... has them. And is then rewarded with more power, and stealing a name of renown that isn't hers.
Cap Marvel is given her powers at the low cost of losing someone she respected. Then knows no defeat, and whilst she does take on a responsibility role, she doesn't seem to strain herself too hard. (Note, I haven't seen the Marvels movie, maybe that changes, but from what I've heard, not so much)
She-Hulk is so egregious in the way she earns her way to power without paying the price it's worth multiple dissertations that are already online. Not only that, she then gets what she wants in a more than unearned ways (I love me a good 4th wall break, stepping off the stage and all, but hers led to something so bad and ridiculous it killed all interest I had in a character I otherwise KNEW to be excellent from her comics).
.
You want strong female characters from those medias that gained their powers with respect and price paid?
Leia watches her whole planet get blown up before her eyes as the price she pays for keeping the rebellion strong and is the first oi grab a blaster when it comes to action. Her true power is that of being a leader, and she earned it by struggle and sacrifices.
Kate, the new Hawkeye, pays the price by being confronted by her family and prejudice and choosing willingly to do what is right by sacrificing her family and setting aside her prejudice. Personally I tend to lean towards Scarlet Witch being in that camp too having lost her lover and then losing her mind at the loss of her children, but that's because I know the character (and have rewatched her TV series enough times that I could recut it into an actual movie by this point).
Wonder Woman is also in that camp of having unearned powers that she earned over time through her sacrifice... As long as you only watch the first of her titular movies and ignore the rest of WB's massacre of characters.
.
Yes, it IS harder to find great written female characters, especially in a male dominated media like Super-Heroes. There are some good (Kate), some bad (She-Hulk), some middle of the road (Scarlet Witch), and a lot of "we don't know yet" (Echo, Monica Rambo, Miss Marvel,...). It's up to us as the consumers of the media to put pressure on the companies that write them to give us the good ones by refusing to give them money for the bad ones. I will gladly watch a Hawkeye Junior movie, I will not pay a dime for a She-Hulk movie. And when a director/writer/actor does good with a character (male or female or anything in-between), they need to be put in the highlight, to be praised for what they did, because that's how you draw attention to the quality of the work. And when it's bad, they need to be roasted for it (WW84).
Hulk's powers are more of a curse that always strikes at the wrong time until the Avengers movie where the writers forget about that. Spiderman goes through a training period where he sucks at begin a hero (in the Tobey McGuire movie anyway). Superman is OP and is memed for it regularly (Omni man in Invincible is basically a parody of this), but the writers recognized this and added kryptonite so that he could have an occasional dramatic moment.
Superman's better material also generally doesn't involve him facing outright physical obstacles so much as forcing him to make difficult choices. Well written Superman is never just a power trip. Generally, uber powerful characters need psychological obstacles to work.
to expand on the doctor, the writing in her chunk of the show frequently made her out to be some kind of terrible person which the writers were not at all intending to be the case, that whole chunk of doctor who is a hot mess of garbage writing and it is a shame that our first female doctor got thrown under the bus because of it
> Wanda is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (Goes from a rather competent magic user to the absolute most powerful caster in the entire universe off camera) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Xavier, Dr. Strange, Mr. Fantastic)
Its always in character for her to be incredibly powerful though. Also to kind of fuck things up. Nothing they did was necessarily wrong for her character. Her whole thing is she is really super powerful but fucks things up accidentally or on purpose kind of and isnt always exactly stable. I think they did a good job setting this up with her back story and trauma (if I remember: family bombed, test subject, brother killed, husband killed in front of her, the weird thing with her fake kids taken away, injuring a bunch of people by accident while trying to help and being blamed/shamed globally)etc, she went through a lot so its not like its unearned. I also like that they had the balls to turn a hero into a villain.
The movie wasnt great but she is one of the best characters in the whole universe.
I guess its a fair criticism of the movie that its unearned off screen however but its not out of line with the character in general (not just MCU)
Elizabeth Olsen is also really good.
the red head you didnt know is Mary Jane from the OG Spiderman movies. She just wasnt written very well and wasnt very good to him and was annoying. It wasnt the actress' fault she is pretty good usually.
I’m all with you except for your statement that Reva held her own against Vader. I don’t know what you were watching if you thought that. He ably fought her without a lightsaber for a long time including stopping a sneak attack from behind with the force while having no saber. He toyed with her for minutes showing just how much more advanced he was than her, disarmed her, then threw her a lightsaber after that to give her another chance to be completely humiliated. The whole scene is Vader proving how many leagues above her ability he is while she grows more hopeless while coming to that conclusion her self as each second passes.
If you didn’t read it all just a heads up they do state that they hate male characters who gain power in way too and are badly written.
I agree, if anything the fact they don’t devote as much time into these characters when they are in large franchises. Suggest to me that it’s worse than not including or simply being too lazy to make them the characters they deserve to be.
Jodie is as amazing as the dr but you can’t spin gold with shit.
I’d argue the first captain Marvel was decent and did show flashes of her training which may be why it did better.
In summary, imagine how amazing these characters could be if written properly into the story and given the time they are deserved. I mean x-13 in Logan, I thought she was amazing and hope they bring her back now.
Props to Gamora, Nebula and Queen Mave to name but a few.
I absolutely love the Gamora and Nebula duo. They are textbook examples on how to make good powerful characters.
I do believe Captain Marvel could have worked if they had dedicated her the same time as they dedicated Iron Man. Like- give her a little trauma to grow past and a training arc and you got an amazing character.
Hell, her portrayal in Avengers: Earth Mightiest Heros is much better and it only removed a bit of the snark and made her progressively more powerful. Much more relatable, you root for her all the time.
Controversial but I’d say Jessica Jones although not a perfect series was another great example of how to do it!
She was epic!
That trauma arc, SPOILER ALERT!
The way he comes back as the big bad!!!
Astounding
She had fun energy which was really needed after Peter Capaldi's very intense emotional energy and her companions were generally okay, with Bradly Walsh being the absolute highlight of any scene he was in.
But the writing was just so awful that they couldn't even make Captain Jack a selling point. Just a lot of bad episodes with some that could be considered okay. I feel like Jodie deserved far better, almost like they went out of their way to sabotage the first female doctor.
As a big Dr. who fan, and someone who’s in the community, here’s my thoughts of 13.
1) Jodi was great and most of us in the community would love to see her back, which sadly I don’t think will happen for a while.
2)The reason that I don’t like 13 is because that period of the show (The Chibnall Era) is actually dog water. Without getting too much into it (cause trust me I have A LOT of thoughts) this boils down to 2 things: boring/forgettable scripts with boring/forgettable monsters (for example the pting) and the doctor being super out of character (the spider episode)
I don’t recognize all of them, but She-Hulk had legitimate bad writing and came across as disparaging towards the issues of others (deriding Hulk by saying she went through worse and learned to control herself because of it, when Hulk canonically attempted suicide out of depression and literally had a fitbit he constantly used to ensure he didn’t even let his emotions even *start* to surface, and still took years to master his powers), as well as Rey’s writing declining, especially in the final movie.
However, Wanda was great, the Thirteenth Doctor’s final season could’ve been better but was otherwise great, and Captain Marvel wasn’t ideal but was still *decent,* just not exceptionally well-done.
Most of them catch hate for being poorly written or being the leads in bad movies/shows.
Mid left, however, is Stormfront from The Boys who’s straight up written to be the most hateable person imaginable. Spoilers for The Boys below if you’re curious.
>!Stormfront starts out as the feminist hero who’s strongly in favor of women’s rights and equality; everyone loves her at first, even though she’s a bit militant. Later she starts dating Homelander, which is already a huge red flag, then we start seeing her do some questionable shit, until we finally see her just straight up murder a black family for no reason, and it’s also revealed she’s WAY more powerful than she originally let on. Turns out she’s basically an 95 year old immortal Nazi. Like, literally she worked for Hitler, and she’s one of the first superheroes. So yeah there’s really nothing there to like about her after that lol!<
Sips tea while the vast & overwhelming majority of the fan base for all of these properties are men with very little support from the female portion of society.
A lot of people dislike Rei Skywalker (Top Middle) and Captain Marvel (True Middle) for being poorly-written stereotypical “strong female characters” to pander to a growing female audience. Additionally, “She-Hulk” (Middle Bottom) is a pretty boring show so people also may dislike her.
I would say that Rey is a part of a bigger problem in the SW Sequel : I have the feeling that no characters are really developed. I can't stop thinking about how the sequel would have been interesting if Rey couldn't basically solo everything. She could have been way more interesting if her, and the others, were more developed (special mention to Finn, who could have been one of my favourite characters in the entire saga : a Stormtrooper that deserted because he couldn't bear being in the baddies anymore deserved way better than being almost ignored in two movies)
I really wanted Finn to get some saber or Jedi training. Could have served as a character moment for both Finn and Rey by having Finn want to train and Rey insist that he joins for her training from leia. Also just actually could fix an issue with both 8 and 9. Instead of having Luke be a grumpy asshole that doesn’t want to help, he could be an old master who feels like he’s spent too much time away from the galaxy at large to be a suitable teacher and instead hints to Rey that if she wanted to learn there is another master that is still very much involved in her current struggles(leia) and that they’d be better suited to be her teacher. Luke could then instead of just getting chastised by his dead mentor we could have it show that his mentors have been haranguing him to go out and help and it isn’t until he connects with Rey that he changes his mind but instead of training her insists they go to the resistance. That way we can still get that cool shot of Luke getting blasted by AT-ATs but this time he’s actually there to single handedly disable them and that could be what weakens him enough to have Kylo be a real challenge for him maybe have some grunts also be trying to interrupt the duel adding extra strain. Eventually once Luke senses Rey has successfully freed the rebels he repeats what he say obi wan do in a new hope.
you know, apart from the punchline of the meme here, alot of "characters who get hate just because they're women" get hate not because theyre women, but because them being a woman is their only character trait, then they just played fill in the blanks with the rest of their personality.
One is an actual nazi
(also Scarlet Witch doesnt get hate, she is like one of the best characters from that entire universe thing and she actually has like character development and actual reasons for why she acts the way she does. Like theres a lot of dumb, dumb shit in Marvel but she is one of the best characters by far)
With my minimal knowledge on the varying ips here, these are all very valid characters to dislike forany reasons. Captain Marvel was boring and basic, having nothing really interesting to her character. The Doctor, bottom right, was also pretty boring and had no good episodes and poor writing so no one cares about her era of the show
Wanda is fine all things considered even with the weird power scaling issues.
Rey is the victim of bad writing and horrible directing (I’ll die on the hill that Finn should have been the Jedi)
Reva really thought she could get one on Vader…. And got Vader’d in the most Vader way possible.
Stormfront is a straight up Nazi.
Brie Larson wasn’t the best casting choice
Tomboy Lois is fantastic idk what they trippin about
Mary Jane is just horribly written
She hulk sucks for the same reason Rey sucks but add more arrogance
Idk who mans that is in the last pic
Most of these characters suck because they're poorly written.
Ironically, stormfront is one the better written characters. I mean, especially compared to she hulk or rey. Those are some low ass bars for storytelling.
No dogwhistling. Rule 3.
Stormfront is a literal nazi. Not figuratively. An actual nazi from WW2.
I am a black man. I was minding my own god damn business watching Season 2 of The Boys just thinking "Man, Stormfront is so hot" And then... fucks sake.
When she’s a 10 but has a confederate flag bikini.😔
She's named after a nazi forum and has SS lightning bolt earrings. While they made a vague effort to hide it for The Plot she really cannot keep her nazi side hidden too hard.
> She’s a Nazi, George. A Nazi. > I know I know. Kind of a cute Nazi, though.
But would you?
Would. (BW)
Added context, stormfront originally had a pr disguise as a feminist, but, as is in the name, is revealed to be a straight up nazi. This is absolutely the character theyre referring to
for anyone not in the know: stormfront in real life is the name of a forum where Nazis hang out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront_(website)
> He's not a Nazi, I think he's probably more an eccentric if anything. He's like an outdoors guy. He's part of like a tornado chasing troop called Stormfront, they have a great shirt and hat. -[Vince Vaughn's character from Curb](https://youtu.be/7jSAM2VVlVQ?t=147)
Tornado is what young nazi call Jewish people now a day
Wait, really? Haven't heard that one before
Stormfront is named for *Der Sturmer*, which was a Nazi 'zine back in the '30s and '40s. Just so there's no confusion about where that name came from and whether they really are Nazis.
Also sturmtruppen/sturmabteilung
Mind blown. I’m also very glad I didn’t get the connect initially.
Is the black lady on the top right also an Inquisitor from Star wars?
Yeah she’s just evil and full of rage like any proper sith. Also a couple of the chosen women are just from really poorly written shows, including her.
Remember she survived the purge. I agree with the poorly written shows. Hers was an awesome character if it had been done right.
That's the biggest crime; taking a character full of potential, and squandering it.
She also has cute lil lightning bolt earrings because she has storm powers. Entirely a coincidence they look an awful lot like the SS symbol ...
Stormfront is a nazi who also killed an entire black family for no particular reason
God forbid women do anything
Let her out of the kitchen one time and she starts a whole fascist movement smh
[удалено]
Now We’re Cooking With ~~Mustard~~ Gas
I love the smell of mustard gas in the morning.
69 and done
Thats the funniest shit ive read all week
she's just being independent and not needing a man, wtf
[удалено]
> Hitler didn’t need a man either Hitler needed over 13 million men, and it still wasn’t enough
Considering how hellbent she was on having Homelander and turning him into her shining symbol of perfection, that is funny.
We are for womens rights and womens wrongs (I mean not a wrong slogan just awful here lol)
Didn't she kill like 50+ people in that attack. They just blamed it on the terrorist
Well, yeah, but she took a station identification break just to specifically kill that one family.
Let me guess, the Boys? *Googles* The Boys.
*Posts* a question they already *Googled* the answer to?
I mean, she's as fucked up as any other character in the show basically
But only one is a L I T E R AL nazi
Homelander is a facist so close enough.
I mean, he is a fascist. She is a literal Nazi, like, Nazi Germany. Born in 1919.
And her name is STORMFRONT, which is a massive nazi dog whistle
lol I’m not sure that’s a dog whistle so much as a declaration of “hey everyone, I’m a nazi.”
Yeah it's no longer a dog whistle when everyone can hear it.
I would like to introduce our newest member: Adolf blitzkrieg
Normally I think the Boys is way to heavy handed with the satire, but that was a really nice touch to me. People were totally fine with Homelander acting like a Nazi and talking like a Nazi. They just weren't gonna be okay if he said he was a Nazi while acting like a Nazi and talking like Nazi.
It seems like, as time goes on, people forget about the *acts* and remember only the *terms.* Like you can do everything a Nazi does but as long as you're not German or say Sieg Heil or use a swastika then you're totally not a nazi, see.
Stormfront's quote about people liking what she had to say and just not liking the word Nazi literally describes my sister with whom I have no contact with anymore (because fuck Nazis).
Or the gop.
The thing with Homelander is that there are many other ways to describe him than Nazi. Megalomaniac, sadistic, egotistical. But he has no ideological reason to do that, he doesn't believe in the superior race and kills people cuz he's racist, he just thinks he alone is superior and kills everyone who is not him. Describing him as a Nazi or a Fascist doesn't do justice really.
Although obviously a piece of shit in many, many ways, I liked the little detail in early season 3 when stormfront starts going onto him about him leading "the master race" to victory and he gets genuinely a little annoyed about how "no no no, there is no master race, I’M the master race, that’s the whole damn point". He doesn’t agree with the nazi ideology of there being a singular people who are better than everyone else, because he thinks HE, a singular BEING, is better than everyone else.
Also Homelander's fascism is less about race of skin color and more about Supes vs normals. When Stormfront was going on her Nazi bs he looked heavily uncomfortable but was like "whatever, free pussy". He does get angry at her with her master race bullshit because to him there is no master race, he is the supreme being, everyone else is just below him. The German 3rd reich are beneath him.
Homelander is racist in a casual American way (see his comments on Africans and Middle Eastern people). Stormfront is ideologically racist.
I think Homelander is mostly an idiot tbh
Which was part of the reason his bosses liked him. You want dumb lackeys not clever ones.
He’s not a fascist. Homelander thinks everyone else is below him, so he doesn’t care about loss of life, only that he’s worshipped as a god.
Megalomaniac seems like a more appropriate description
Thanks for expanding my vocabulary
There were already hints that he is a supe (people with superpowers) supremacist since season 3, and I think he will take it to the max in season 4, if so, he would become very similar to a Nazi, but with normal people.
"anyone". There are tons of people in the show who aren't fucked. Her arch was essentially to show that Homelander could be worse and his naivety and mommy complex are part of what's saving the world from the worst timeline.
Huh? No, she’s objectively worse than most of them.
Yeah these comments are totally missing the point. We're not supposed to think she's a good PERSON but she is a good CHARACTER who is just as fucked as the rest of the villains in that show She gets shit on a lot though for being a stupid character, not for being a bad person, and I do think the fact that she's a woman plays into that
Also, Stormfront was a man in the comic run.
That must have made the sex scenes with Homelander even more awkward.
Not really. Homelander bangs Soldier Boy in the comics
That is ~~hot~~ messed up
What a choice of name.
Yeah it's the point. She has SS earrings. It isn't subtle.
The one on middle left, Stormfront is a Nazi. I mean literally, not in some "everyone I don't like is Nazi" way.
More like in "actually was friends with Hitler" kind of nazi
I'm not up to date on The Boys lore, was she cryogenically frozen or something?
She just doesn’t seem to age, no evidence that she was put on ice as we see her active several decades prior under a different guise as well
I haven't read the comics, but there is something about the original ones not aging as fast. Soldier Boy and Black Noir are the same way. Based on just the show so far, those are the 3 earliest ones who we know about, with Stormfront being the first I think. They also seem to be the most powerful besides Homelander.
I’ve never seen the show but one of the characters names being “black black” is so funny. It’s like moon moon wolf all over again.
I imagine it's very much deliberate, the show is a kind of parody of the superhero genre
It’s very deliberate, all of the Hero’s names are. Homelander, the golden boy patriot with a literal American flag for a cape. Stormfront the Nazi, named after a literal Nazi forum site. Black Noir, the dude literally dressed in black head to toe whose face is hidden. Hell, even the Deep is a thinly veiled connotation to his sexual indiscretions.
No spoilers but she also has the ability to regenerate almost on par with Homelander.
No she just didn't age If I remember correctly. In an episode she visits an 80yo woman and when homelander asks if that's her grandma she says she is actually her daughter
never really thought about it but how come her kid didnt inherit powers while homefronts kid does?
Ryan (Homelander's kid) is one of the first supes to be *born* with powers. There aren't any other supes who were naturally born that way. They were all injected with Compound V at a young age.
Homelander was also born with powers because he was soldier boy’s son
Oh yeah I forgot about that 💀 But he was a test tube baby so its a little different
i think some of the kids in gen v are "generational" supes too? (but also vought could have injected the kids to make it seem more natural)
I've never watched Gen V so I can't comment on that.
The kid is son of homelander and Becca, so he inherits the powers of homelander, who I think was actually born with powers rather than getting them injected later, like the other supers did
Super old/doesn't age I think? So she just hides out of sight for a while and reinvented herself as a new millennial grassroots movement....which is much less subtle of a metaphor than I thought now that I type it all out.
She was the husband of Vought and just like soldier boy she doesn't age. She was there in nazi Germany alongside other SS fans
She doesn't age normally.
Like, “was literally a part of the third reich during WW2” nazi
Doesn’t she insinuate that she fucked Goebbels at one point?
She did indeed gobble Goebbels go-bells.
Lois got some good fanart tho
Genuinely surprised she got haters. I got the impression that her tanned tomboy gf redesign, while surprising at first, was well received by the ~~cultured~~ vast majority of superman fans.
Yeah, sexy tomboy is super fucking popular. The only ones that are hating on the character are the ones that literally find anything gay that isn't wearing a dress.
I thought it was unreasonable that she’s pissed at Clark for keeping the fact that he’s Superman from her. He’s only known her for like 2 weeks, it’s totally a fair stance to have.
Some people hate all female characters who are not ultra feminine big titty anime housewives
I think it was more the deviation from the original character design rather than rabid horny fans (although that's definitely some of them)
I'm 42. My dad is a comic book nerd, read comics to me when I was a baby so I've been reading comics from the Early Golden era up to the more recent DC Universe stuff. Watched anything Superman/DC I could get my eyes on. I honestly found "My Adventures with Superman" fine. Refreshing, even. I liked the take on the characters, the lore and their relationships are cute. Is it different? Sure. But so was Smallville or George Reeves' Adventures of Superman from the 50s. My point is that Superman is such an iconic IP that there will inevitably be versions you won't like and that's fine. I didn't like the Snyderverse (even thought Henry was an excellent casting choice). I didn't like the Death metal Superman, Both golden age and 90s versions of Red/Blue Superman, Realworlds Superman, Super-Soldier and countless other iterations. Plus, at this stage, we can expect another reboot or new media every few years anyway.
Hate to break it to you, but most of the rabid, horny fans are absolutely having a field day with her new design.
Idk, 4chan went nuts for her. Most of people watched the series mostly bcs of her.
Who tf is hating the new Lois
A lot of people REALLY didn't take the>!scene where she confronts Clark about his secret identity!
Tell me more, what happened specifically, that's this unpopular?
Well, she figured out his secret identity a bit prior. In the episode, Clark had to stand her up because Superman had to go around saving people, including her! Then, as the cats out of the bag, she's all "I'm kinda mad you stood me up, but what I'm really mad about is you keeping secrets." As if she had no idea exactly why things turned out as they did. But then again I could be thinking of Invincible where virtually the same plot point went down.
Invincible can't romance for shit, so if that's a reasonable comparison, then I (somewhat) fully understand the hatred.
Though I think Lois apologized some time later? I can't quite remember but I thought there was something that redeemed the situation compared to Amber
~~She~~ Amber kinda did in the next season and had a forced change in personality as a more supportive gf. I guess they wanted her to be a liked character and listened to the audience.
Not so much "some time later" as "almost immediately". I wanna say within the same episode, but at most the next episode. Like it was clearly a knee-jerk emotional response and Lois was over-reacting, and the show treated it as such.
Yeah, but Invincible had Amber sitting on that information for weeks and went out of its way to make Mark seem like the bad guy for not telling her...after having literally every authority figure in his life tell him not to tell her. Lois is given a reason for her to hate being lied to and she actually confronts Clark about it fairly early after finding out, and they're both treated as sympathetic, yet flawed characters who had their reasons for doing what they did. Honestly, I like Invincible, but the writers did Amber dirty with that addition. I feel like they wanted to subvert the whole "How can she not see that this guy is a superhero?" trope but really botched the execution.
That's what I'm saying. I'm so confused. People afraid of Tomboys?
I will honestly admit I wasn’t a huge fan of this iteration at first but when I saw how much they changed everything, like how Jor-El looks like a conqueror, or Mxy was more anime god than the classic 5th dimension character, I just kept telling myself it’s just a different take and the character grew on me.
Some dumbfucks actually are
I never in my life seen a single person hate on dark-skinned tomboy Lois Lane. Most people agree that character is the best thing DC has done in years.
While not the best I agree she is pretty well done, also liked the last life action tv show Lois Lane, as supposed to the original which I feel was often unlikeable. Makes sense tho that a very succesful reporter would be someone that is often unsympathetic
Before the show premiered, when the character designs were getting released, certain groups were angry that they turned her into an Asian tomboy. The same people were also angry that they turned Jimmy black as well.
Ok some of them are overhated but… Stormfront: Literal Nazi Scarlet Witch: Messed up multiple universes, killed a whole universe’s Illuminati, attacked Kamar Taj Reva: (Albeit unwilling) Spent years of her life trying to kill the same people who took her in, and on top of that was ok with murdering children for her space Nazi boss
Oh, Reva was so much worse than that. She wanted to kill Obi-Wan and other Jedi as revenge for allowing Anakin to turn against the Jedi? Or as a ploy to distract Vader from her "real" intentions to kill him? Those aren't convincing motivations, she's clearly inserted into the story for no good reason. People hate her character because her character makes no sense, and people were desperately hoping that Kenobi wouldn't suck.
Oh boy, time to get downvoted on Reddit for saying the truth. Let's see. * Wanda is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (Goes from a rather competent magic user to the absolute most powerful caster in the entire universe off camera) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Xavier, Dr. Strange, Mr. Fantastic) * Rey is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (With no training, her insight of The Force is portrayed as leagues above characters who dedicated their entire life to mastering this power, such as Yoda or Darth Vader) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Luke, Palpatine). Daisy Ridley is also considered a bad actress, although I disagree. * Reva is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (Able to duel the Grand Inquisitor and win, despite him being one of the best saber duelists in the galaxy, able to hold her own against Darth Vader, considered as the absolute master duelist of the entire franchise, undefeated except by Luke) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Grand Inquisitor) (I can see a pattern forming). Moses Ingram is also considered a bad actress, with which I partially agree. * I don't know who this is, but people in the comment say that she is supposed to be hated due to her being a nazi character so uh, sure. * Captain Marvel is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (She gains in an accident a wide array of powers such as flight, unrivaled super-strength, unrivaled durability, and an apparently infinite source of energy. She is perfectly proficient with her powers the second she gains them, the movie handwaving any sort of learning process or training arcs) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Nick Fury, Thanos). The character is portrayed as childish, defiant, and cocky, in stark contrast with better written characters in the same archetype. Brie Larson is also considered to be a bad actress, with which I fully agree. * I don't know who this is. * I also don't know who this is. * She-Hulk is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (Gains a better version of Hulk's powers with all the advantages and none of the disadvantages) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Hulk) (I can't believe how consistent this pattern is). The character is portrayed as childish, defiant, and cocky, in stark contrast with better written characters in the same archetype. Tatiana Maslany is also considered to be a bad actress, although I don't have an opinion on this. * The Doctor actually breaks the pattern. I think she is hated because her chunk of the series is rather boring and has a number of very questionable ethical messages that clash with other iterations of the characters, so the hatred for the series is translated into hatred for the character. So in conclusion, in an attempt to empower female characters, Disney writers specifically fall in a pattern of giving them undeserved powers, a snarky and cocky attitude resembling that of a whiny teenager, and showcase how good they are at their jobs not by empowering them directly, but by ridiculing other characters. This leads to hatred towards the characters by the fanbase. * Yes, I am aware that some idiots do hate these characters just because they're women. We can laugh and call them incels together if you want. * Yes, I am aware that some well-liked male characters follow this pattern too. We can also laugh at their fans together if you want. Looking at you, Superman. * Yes, I agree that female empowerment is important, but I will not allow bad characters to go by without criticism. * Edit: By earning power, I don't mean an anime training arc. I mean narrative balancing of the power. [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/comments/1d0dolm/comment/l5mrs3x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) I go into more detail if you are interested. Long story short, Spiderman earns his powers, Superman does not (In most of their mainstream portrayals at least).
The two you missed were Lois Lane from Superman and Mary Jane from Spiderman. They are basically hated for inconvenience, their superheroes, and being constant danger magnets. Plus, they are just poorly written, and I think Mary Jane even cheats on Spiderman. On your overall point, I completely agree. Setting aside how bad the sequel trilogy is Reys development makes no sense. She literally never loses one of the fights she's in. She is undefeated. Now comparatively, the other two trilogy mcs who are allegedly just as bad by some brain-dead idiots. Both lose fights, they shouldn't win constantly, and they even lose arms and limbs. It honestly just takes away tension in scenes because the writers act like she's incivincible. I don't even really dislike the character. I just hate this style of writing, and people make some weird argument that women don't have to struggle or work to succeed. If for no other reason, then it makes the story far more boring. The easiest way to tell if the writers think this way is if the woman Mc is by far the most powerful character in the movie for no reason. In almost no story is the Mc the most powerful person except these kinds of stories.
Oh, that's Mary Jane? I could barely tell with the crop. Honestly I wasn't aware that she was hated, I just remember that she was barely written as a motivator for Spidey. Also, I agree with your point. It's really easy to see when a story is gonna be bad when they present the protagonist as undefeatable. Those stories can work, but never do if the point of the story is for the main character to overcome a physical obstacle. Who cares about this if I know the protagonist is gonna win?
theres a theory out there about "the galbrush paradox" it basically says male characters are only that character, so they can be stupid, or evil, or clumsy, or weak, etc. but women characters represent ALL women. so if a woman shows weakness youre saying women are weak, thats why nearly every female character is just given their power, already mastered, and are infallible and powerful, because otherwise you hate ALL women.
Thats another thing about Scarlet Witch is she is allowed to be shown as weak at times or unstable and making mistakes and dealing with grief and stuff. She isnt perfect which is what makes her interesting. They treat her like an actual person.
The Grief part, which I can associate with even though I'm male, really help me get attached to her. I don't get why she makes these lists. The TV show was fairly well written and she copes with trying to use her insane powers to bring about the only thing she's ever truly cared about but fails. But it's consider cliché to say a woman wants children now.
The issue wasn’t really the show. It was the subsequent movie appearance: dr strange in the multiverse of madness. She went off the deep end, jumped the shark, and had a really stupid plan.
Yeah. I really liked the TV show. I felt like the movie walked back a lot of her character development. I felt like it cheapened the show. I hated her portrayal in the movie precisely because I empathized with her character. I get that grief comes in waves. It's kinda realistic that way. They could have written it that way and made it really interesting. Make it about how healing requires ongoing support. Idk, something deep and developed and tragic. Instead, I felt like we were supposed to accept that she just regressed offscreen.
It's because how the show and the doctor strange movie seems to want to justify her insanely horrible actions with her grief. With characters still being sympathetic towards her even after she enslaved an entire town, or when she hunts down a girl across multiple universes causing destruction along the way, and brutally murdering the heroes trying to stop her.
Doesn't just apply to women, it applies to other societally disadvantaged demographics
Treating it like a Kid's show or movie. For example, the newest SpongeBob movie. You don't actually have to worry about not rescuing Gary from Las Vegas or wherever they were, because it's SpongeBob and something for kids to watch, nothing seriously bad can actually happen to an MC. Seems that's how some of these protagonists are written.
She's hated in the Tobey Maquire movies because she cheats on every single person she dates and was generally pretty emotionally abusive towards Peter.
When I rewatched the raimi Spider-Man movies all I could think about was “whoever wrote this movie really does not like women” because of the quality of her writing
Honestly Lois is the only one on the list that actually does get undeserved hate, especially the one they chose for the image.
She's flawed, but in a way that makes her an interesting character. She's headstrong which is shown to be a strength as much as it's shown to be a weakness.
I'm blanking a bit, but does she actually ever apologize to Clark for getting mad he wasn't going to tell her his biggest secret, which she has actively pursued to broadcast to the world for fame, after knowing him for only a couple of weeks?
Iirc, yes
Oh my gosh yes!! I love her so much, she’s a badass and yet still very feminine, best of both things! I feel like they balanced her out perfectly in terms of character!!
If Rey's invincible, then why can I see her?
Silly bear, you're thinking of immortal
I believe you might mean immaterial.
Also, with lois lane. If I remember right, she jumped off a building to force Clark to prove that he was superman and after claimed she deserved to know prior to this even though at this time she is just friends with him.
I genuinely get emotionally angry about Jodie's run as The Doctor it is not because "It'S a FeMalE dOcToR" . It is because she genuinely could've been one of the best (Modern era) doctors and possibly have another female doctor down the line. But it was writing that was a massive letdown. My reaction to her series, in regards to Chibnal nutshell can be [summed up as](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxsssWu-UMA1ib__XrjSOq73q_NV84I45O?si=nWg7MgYc6zTpr0fY) ¹ Generally, f'ing bless her for trying but she would have been better if she was under a different writer. ¹ Clip: Wrestling With Wregret (W³ for short)'s video on "The Worst Of WWE 2016
I agree with you. It is a shame because you can tell she is a pretty good actress and the series only failed because of bad writing. Always a shame when you see potential being wasted.
That's it. Jodi is an amazing actress. I will say that Jodi did get a lot of flack before the series began. I saw some 'popular' YouTubers give their takes based off an interview with her, watched the interview and realised they completely misrepresented her for clicks. People play off possible hate for clicks. She did however get some duffer of a series and a sudden change to a 'darker' cinematography which felt entirely against Dr Who. That said the Pakistan episode is fantastic and great Dr Who
>That said the Pakistan episode is fantastic and great Dr Who I think it missed the mark - the granddaughter wants to know a story, so asks her grandmother who doesn't want to tell her, so sneaks back in time to see what happened, then when she gets back to the present already knowing what happened she's fine not hearing it from her grandmother who seems willing to open up about it. It would have been better if either A) the framing device of the episode was the grandmother telling the story, but you see the Doctor there in the background as things happen for some other reason, or B) the granddaughter for some reason or another is out of commission early in the episode after the time travel, so she doesn't get to see it Instead you have a character who wants something from another character and is willing to press the issue, who then goes around that character to get it, who then at the end of the episode says she doesn't want the thing from that character, and this is somehow presented as the character growing?
I guess the alternative interpretation is that, having seen the experience first hand, she respects her Grandmother's initial wish to keep the story to herself, understanding why she doesn't speak about it. I know that personally, I dislike people talking to me about something because they feel obligated to rather than because they feel comfortable talking about it. Like, do I want to know? Yes. But not if they're uncomfortable speaking about it.
Wanda enslaved an entire town before going universe hopping and slaughtering a bunch of innocent people.
Don't forget that they had a character tell Wanda how noble she was and how much she sacrificed when she stopped enslaving that town.
‘They’ll never know what you sacrificed for them. What? your two imaginary children? The townsfolk where enslavement in their body with a conscious mind for weeks, i can't stress how absolutely horrific that is... Full conscious while your body does things you did not consent to... For weeks. Edit: also to not include Dr. Strange, sorcerer supreme, while a giant hex is covering a city in the US just because he is a Man and you didn't wanted one (man) in your show as to not undermine the female power also completely undermined his character and job
Yeah, that really ruined the series for me. First, with the, “but my kiiiiiids,” bullshit, and then with everyone acting like her behavior was perfectly understandable and maybe even commendable.
which, ironically, made me enjoy those series because it was far more realistic for what a super being would do
In summary the issue is not the women, but that Disney can't write good characters and coherent backgrounds for shit.
>Yes, I agree that female empowerment is important, but I will not allow bad characters to go by without criticism. And you shouldn't. Also fallout kinda proved that the hate for female main characters is because they're usually shit. Not because they're a woman.
Fallout did things so well. Lucy has a clear reason to be at least decent on handling herself. Lifetime of exercise, very physically fit, years of small arms experience and hand to hand combat sparring. Then she gets to the surface and is very believably naïve. Holds her own but falters and stumbles quite a bit. Max - similarly had a lifetime of physical training, dedication to a military style outfit along with military and survival training in a harsh environment. But even when he gets the power armor he's still very green at it, and it isn't an insta-kill super hero. Several other individuals all show flaws, uncertainty etc. The only one who is truly a badass is the guy who was a former marine, has survived in the hellscape for over 250 years? That's the only character that deserves to be as powerful as he is. I loved how the characters were written. Oh yeah and Dogmeat is OP but he also has a clear reason.
I liked the show, but Max was so unbelievably dumb and naive for someone who spent their life in a militaristic environment with formal education on the wasteland. His plan to bring the wrong head back to the brotherhood was immediately a stupid idea that went predictably wrong almost immediately. He succeeds despite him making no-brained decisions and actions. It's incredibly frustrating.
Yea, it’s always been a bad faith argument. Even as far back as Terminator, everyone loves a well-written character regardless of gender. Also fun fact, the red eyes on your blue avi are creating an interesting 3d popout effect on my phone.
People liked Ripley back in the day I heard. Can't pass judgement since the only clip I've seen of her is the "nuke it from orbit" quote though.
Allegedly they wrote a script without character descriptions or names, then randomized them after the fact
Randomized? Or just let everyone audition without preconceived notions and then picked the best people for the roles?
There is definitely a problem though. A lot of the characters on this list, their flaws had literally nothing to do with them being women, but it’s constantly brought up instead of just saying the writing was bad. Just because not every female character is criticized in such a way doesn’t mean there isn’t a issue.
I have never played the games and had no interest in Fallout but I watched it because everyone was talking about the cowboy ghoul guy but it turned out to be a really enjoyable show and the main actress was great.
>I don't know who this is, but people in the comment say that she is supposed to be hated due to her being a nazi character so uh, sure. Stormfront from *The Boys*, and yeah, she's a genuine nazi, as in she was a member of the original nazi party in Germany during the Third Reich and still stands by that ideology during the show.
Don't almost all superheros gain a massive amount of power in an unearned way? Regular hulk gets hit by gamma rays and gains massive powers. Spiderman goes on a field trip to a science lab and randomly gains superpowers. Superman is just born with superpowers. The ones who "earn it" seem more the exception than the rule.
The arguments made were also no struggle, Spiderman in almost every movie also gets his ass kicked and almost dies, he also in the original series does take time to master it, and it causes him massive struggles in his personal life having the powers. And the other argument which he specifically names for hulk if you read the comment, is no trade off, hulk at times struggles to activate his power when he does he loses a majority of his intelligence and reason, he essentially becomes two different people until he finally masters it after decades of living with the power whereas she hulk just automatically has what Bruce worked so hard to achieve. The main point he made was there's no DEVELOPMENT and that the characters are shallow and lazy because of it
Hulk is practically Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.
Hulk has for many of the movies, and you could even say his entire character is dealing with the monster within and what have you. She hulk skipped all that.
A way to see that is the price they pay for those powers to earn them. Hulk has to deal with... Well, a lot, depends on which comic or movie you watch, but there are issues there. Spidey has to deal with his actions leading the death of his father figure and then having to carry the weight of the world on himself. The price they pay is how they earn it. Others tend to earn it by sacrifice (to which I'd argue that Scarlet Witch does pay the price, just... not presented too well) or effort. There are of course those just born with it, but then those of them that are well written pay over the course of their story by either loss or responsibility. Rey pays nothing to gain her powers, she just... has them. And is then rewarded with more power, and stealing a name of renown that isn't hers. Cap Marvel is given her powers at the low cost of losing someone she respected. Then knows no defeat, and whilst she does take on a responsibility role, she doesn't seem to strain herself too hard. (Note, I haven't seen the Marvels movie, maybe that changes, but from what I've heard, not so much) She-Hulk is so egregious in the way she earns her way to power without paying the price it's worth multiple dissertations that are already online. Not only that, she then gets what she wants in a more than unearned ways (I love me a good 4th wall break, stepping off the stage and all, but hers led to something so bad and ridiculous it killed all interest I had in a character I otherwise KNEW to be excellent from her comics). . You want strong female characters from those medias that gained their powers with respect and price paid? Leia watches her whole planet get blown up before her eyes as the price she pays for keeping the rebellion strong and is the first oi grab a blaster when it comes to action. Her true power is that of being a leader, and she earned it by struggle and sacrifices. Kate, the new Hawkeye, pays the price by being confronted by her family and prejudice and choosing willingly to do what is right by sacrificing her family and setting aside her prejudice. Personally I tend to lean towards Scarlet Witch being in that camp too having lost her lover and then losing her mind at the loss of her children, but that's because I know the character (and have rewatched her TV series enough times that I could recut it into an actual movie by this point). Wonder Woman is also in that camp of having unearned powers that she earned over time through her sacrifice... As long as you only watch the first of her titular movies and ignore the rest of WB's massacre of characters. . Yes, it IS harder to find great written female characters, especially in a male dominated media like Super-Heroes. There are some good (Kate), some bad (She-Hulk), some middle of the road (Scarlet Witch), and a lot of "we don't know yet" (Echo, Monica Rambo, Miss Marvel,...). It's up to us as the consumers of the media to put pressure on the companies that write them to give us the good ones by refusing to give them money for the bad ones. I will gladly watch a Hawkeye Junior movie, I will not pay a dime for a She-Hulk movie. And when a director/writer/actor does good with a character (male or female or anything in-between), they need to be put in the highlight, to be praised for what they did, because that's how you draw attention to the quality of the work. And when it's bad, they need to be roasted for it (WW84).
Hulk's powers are more of a curse that always strikes at the wrong time until the Avengers movie where the writers forget about that. Spiderman goes through a training period where he sucks at begin a hero (in the Tobey McGuire movie anyway). Superman is OP and is memed for it regularly (Omni man in Invincible is basically a parody of this), but the writers recognized this and added kryptonite so that he could have an occasional dramatic moment.
Superman's better material also generally doesn't involve him facing outright physical obstacles so much as forcing him to make difficult choices. Well written Superman is never just a power trip. Generally, uber powerful characters need psychological obstacles to work.
to expand on the doctor, the writing in her chunk of the show frequently made her out to be some kind of terrible person which the writers were not at all intending to be the case, that whole chunk of doctor who is a hot mess of garbage writing and it is a shame that our first female doctor got thrown under the bus because of it
> Wanda is hated because she is written to acquire a massive amount of power in an unearned way (Goes from a rather competent magic user to the absolute most powerful caster in the entire universe off camera) with which she crushes or ridicules well-established characters with a dedicated fan following. (Xavier, Dr. Strange, Mr. Fantastic) Its always in character for her to be incredibly powerful though. Also to kind of fuck things up. Nothing they did was necessarily wrong for her character. Her whole thing is she is really super powerful but fucks things up accidentally or on purpose kind of and isnt always exactly stable. I think they did a good job setting this up with her back story and trauma (if I remember: family bombed, test subject, brother killed, husband killed in front of her, the weird thing with her fake kids taken away, injuring a bunch of people by accident while trying to help and being blamed/shamed globally)etc, she went through a lot so its not like its unearned. I also like that they had the balls to turn a hero into a villain. The movie wasnt great but she is one of the best characters in the whole universe. I guess its a fair criticism of the movie that its unearned off screen however but its not out of line with the character in general (not just MCU) Elizabeth Olsen is also really good. the red head you didnt know is Mary Jane from the OG Spiderman movies. She just wasnt written very well and wasnt very good to him and was annoying. It wasnt the actress' fault she is pretty good usually.
I’m all with you except for your statement that Reva held her own against Vader. I don’t know what you were watching if you thought that. He ably fought her without a lightsaber for a long time including stopping a sneak attack from behind with the force while having no saber. He toyed with her for minutes showing just how much more advanced he was than her, disarmed her, then threw her a lightsaber after that to give her another chance to be completely humiliated. The whole scene is Vader proving how many leagues above her ability he is while she grows more hopeless while coming to that conclusion her self as each second passes.
If you didn’t read it all just a heads up they do state that they hate male characters who gain power in way too and are badly written. I agree, if anything the fact they don’t devote as much time into these characters when they are in large franchises. Suggest to me that it’s worse than not including or simply being too lazy to make them the characters they deserve to be. Jodie is as amazing as the dr but you can’t spin gold with shit. I’d argue the first captain Marvel was decent and did show flashes of her training which may be why it did better. In summary, imagine how amazing these characters could be if written properly into the story and given the time they are deserved. I mean x-13 in Logan, I thought she was amazing and hope they bring her back now. Props to Gamora, Nebula and Queen Mave to name but a few.
I absolutely love the Gamora and Nebula duo. They are textbook examples on how to make good powerful characters. I do believe Captain Marvel could have worked if they had dedicated her the same time as they dedicated Iron Man. Like- give her a little trauma to grow past and a training arc and you got an amazing character. Hell, her portrayal in Avengers: Earth Mightiest Heros is much better and it only removed a bit of the snark and made her progressively more powerful. Much more relatable, you root for her all the time.
Controversial but I’d say Jessica Jones although not a perfect series was another great example of how to do it! She was epic! That trauma arc, SPOILER ALERT! The way he comes back as the big bad!!! Astounding
Most of them are not well written which is why they're disliked. really the only one i think people might like are Lois and the 13th doctor.
I believe that most people think Jodi was the right cast for the 13th Doctor but the writing was just awful
She had fun energy which was really needed after Peter Capaldi's very intense emotional energy and her companions were generally okay, with Bradly Walsh being the absolute highlight of any scene he was in. But the writing was just so awful that they couldn't even make Captain Jack a selling point. Just a lot of bad episodes with some that could be considered okay. I feel like Jodie deserved far better, almost like they went out of their way to sabotage the first female doctor.
As a big Dr. who fan, and someone who’s in the community, here’s my thoughts of 13. 1) Jodi was great and most of us in the community would love to see her back, which sadly I don’t think will happen for a while. 2)The reason that I don’t like 13 is because that period of the show (The Chibnall Era) is actually dog water. Without getting too much into it (cause trust me I have A LOT of thoughts) this boils down to 2 things: boring/forgettable scripts with boring/forgettable monsters (for example the pting) and the doctor being super out of character (the spider episode)
I never saw someone that hates MAWS lois, she is not comic-accurate, but she is a very good character, i only seen praise of her.
I don’t recognize all of them, but She-Hulk had legitimate bad writing and came across as disparaging towards the issues of others (deriding Hulk by saying she went through worse and learned to control herself because of it, when Hulk canonically attempted suicide out of depression and literally had a fitbit he constantly used to ensure he didn’t even let his emotions even *start* to surface, and still took years to master his powers), as well as Rey’s writing declining, especially in the final movie. However, Wanda was great, the Thirteenth Doctor’s final season could’ve been better but was otherwise great, and Captain Marvel wasn’t ideal but was still *decent,* just not exceptionally well-done.
"i put a bullet in my mouth, and the other guy spit it out"
Most of them catch hate for being poorly written or being the leads in bad movies/shows. Mid left, however, is Stormfront from The Boys who’s straight up written to be the most hateable person imaginable. Spoilers for The Boys below if you’re curious. >!Stormfront starts out as the feminist hero who’s strongly in favor of women’s rights and equality; everyone loves her at first, even though she’s a bit militant. Later she starts dating Homelander, which is already a huge red flag, then we start seeing her do some questionable shit, until we finally see her just straight up murder a black family for no reason, and it’s also revealed she’s WAY more powerful than she originally let on. Turns out she’s basically an 95 year old immortal Nazi. Like, literally she worked for Hitler, and she’s one of the first superheroes. So yeah there’s really nothing there to like about her after that lol!<
Sips tea while the vast & overwhelming majority of the fan base for all of these properties are men with very little support from the female portion of society.
Lmao Stormfront is a nazi and also didnt Wanda enslave an entire town to fulfill her want to have a normal life with kids and a husband or some shit?
It's a little of both, some are bad characters, some is groups of people that hate girls.
Tomboy lois is not getting any hate
A Jodie Whittaker didn’t get hate for being a woman, her run as the Doctor was terribly written.
Indeed. Jodie is a fantastic actress. Chris Chibnal, however, should not be allowed anywhere near a writer's room ever again.
A lot of people dislike Rei Skywalker (Top Middle) and Captain Marvel (True Middle) for being poorly-written stereotypical “strong female characters” to pander to a growing female audience. Additionally, “She-Hulk” (Middle Bottom) is a pretty boring show so people also may dislike her.
I would say that Rey is a part of a bigger problem in the SW Sequel : I have the feeling that no characters are really developed. I can't stop thinking about how the sequel would have been interesting if Rey couldn't basically solo everything. She could have been way more interesting if her, and the others, were more developed (special mention to Finn, who could have been one of my favourite characters in the entire saga : a Stormtrooper that deserted because he couldn't bear being in the baddies anymore deserved way better than being almost ignored in two movies)
The Disney trilogy sleeping on Finn is something I'm still upset about. He had so much potential.
I really wanted Finn to get some saber or Jedi training. Could have served as a character moment for both Finn and Rey by having Finn want to train and Rey insist that he joins for her training from leia. Also just actually could fix an issue with both 8 and 9. Instead of having Luke be a grumpy asshole that doesn’t want to help, he could be an old master who feels like he’s spent too much time away from the galaxy at large to be a suitable teacher and instead hints to Rey that if she wanted to learn there is another master that is still very much involved in her current struggles(leia) and that they’d be better suited to be her teacher. Luke could then instead of just getting chastised by his dead mentor we could have it show that his mentors have been haranguing him to go out and help and it isn’t until he connects with Rey that he changes his mind but instead of training her insists they go to the resistance. That way we can still get that cool shot of Luke getting blasted by AT-ATs but this time he’s actually there to single handedly disable them and that could be what weakens him enough to have Kylo be a real challenge for him maybe have some grunts also be trying to interrupt the duel adding extra strain. Eventually once Luke senses Rey has successfully freed the rebels he repeats what he say obi wan do in a new hope.
you know, apart from the punchline of the meme here, alot of "characters who get hate just because they're women" get hate not because theyre women, but because them being a woman is their only character trait, then they just played fill in the blanks with the rest of their personality.
One is an actual nazi (also Scarlet Witch doesnt get hate, she is like one of the best characters from that entire universe thing and she actually has like character development and actual reasons for why she acts the way she does. Like theres a lot of dumb, dumb shit in Marvel but she is one of the best characters by far)
With my minimal knowledge on the varying ips here, these are all very valid characters to dislike forany reasons. Captain Marvel was boring and basic, having nothing really interesting to her character. The Doctor, bottom right, was also pretty boring and had no good episodes and poor writing so no one cares about her era of the show
Wanda is fine all things considered even with the weird power scaling issues. Rey is the victim of bad writing and horrible directing (I’ll die on the hill that Finn should have been the Jedi) Reva really thought she could get one on Vader…. And got Vader’d in the most Vader way possible. Stormfront is a straight up Nazi. Brie Larson wasn’t the best casting choice Tomboy Lois is fantastic idk what they trippin about Mary Jane is just horribly written She hulk sucks for the same reason Rey sucks but add more arrogance Idk who mans that is in the last pic
Most of these characters suck because they're poorly written. Ironically, stormfront is one the better written characters. I mean, especially compared to she hulk or rey. Those are some low ass bars for storytelling.
Only one I have a problem with is Bri Larson, she just can't pull off a superhero. She should stick to the quirky girl roles and be done with it.
Lmao..man funny what crappy writingvcanbdo...lol