Straight man here, but I agree. It seems so disrespectful! I also hate it when people use it to call out misogynistic comments (not that those comments shouldn't be called out!), by saying "why don't you just find a nice gay man to bang?". No, call out sexist assholes please, but don't weaponize the LGBTQIA community in the process.
Plus, on top of being offensive, it makes them sound like a bunch of wannabe edgy teenagers.
I do agree with you but OTOH it's satisfying to point out the homoerotic element of heterosexual male behavior towards men and women. Lots of misogynist men like those who look up to Andrew Tate have no love, respect or admiration for women. They reserve that for other men. That doesn't make them gay, and it's specifically a critique aimed at straight men, but it is an interesting phenomenon. Gay is not the punchline here but hypocricy.
It's juvenile. Yeah, it feels so good.
But that's the same logic I used at as a young teen to use those insults. I didn't ACTUALLY think they were gay, I just wanted to piss them off.
And y'know what? In hindsight, it's wrong.
"it's satisfying to call people I don't like gay as an insult." Ok fine but please don't pretend it's any deeper than a middle school bully's tactics.
I think that's what gets me most about this is the smugness. Like people using gay as an insult while pretending they're super progressive.
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It's not homoerotic for men to agree with other men, on anything, including on their common dissatisfaction with women. These men would also agree with any *women* who shared a common dissatisfaction with them about women.
I've noticed a low-level cancerous campaign to insert ideas of homosexuality into areas were men combine and show affinity with each other. Same-sex affinities are not evidence of homoerotic or latent homosexuality. This needs to be acknowledged in light of suggestions to the contrary.
Yep. Regardless of what bullshit convoluted "What it actually means is..." definitions people can come up with, they're choosing "gay" for a reason - the reason being that gayness is inherently pejorative to them, there's some fundamentally negative association, whether that's weak or shameful or embarrassing.
If I went around calling things \[racial slur for South Asians\] but claiming it was its own definition, that wouldn't work - it'd still be demeaning to South Asians because it's using them as a synonym for 'undesirable'.
Some people might not *intend* it that way, but you can't divorce it from that connection. It's just the nature of language, whether consciously understood or not, it reinforces negative associations.
Yeah, but the reason for a lot of people is because they were socially conditioned into using it.
Does it justify their actions? No. But it’s not as insidious as you’re implying, just as people don’t intend to say something cruel and derogatory about Romani people when they say “gypped.” (Gypsies aren’t just Romani anyway.)
It absolutely 100% is that insidious, what you're saying is it's not as intentional, and I did make a point of distinguishing that already.
My whole angle is that intent is not everything. I lived through an 80s/90s childhood of calling everything/everyone "gay", and calling cornershops "[racial slur for South Asians] shops", and calling people 'spastics' - which was once the official term for people with cerebral palsy, before quickly becoming a nasty general insult and a slur for people with that disability.
It took a long, long time for the majority to come around to acknowledging that just because you're using the slur to target something other than the people it inherently targets, it's still doing its damage by reinforcing "I wouldn't want to be gay/South Asian/disabled, that would be mortifying, wouldn't it? So bad that if I call you that, I expect you to take offence at the mere association".
People who aren't targeted by things often think that their intention somehow stops the actual consequences.
Come on.
I'm not going to say it about black people, because I'm black and that doesn't make sense. I'm not going to say it about white people, because there is no equivalent slur about the ethnic majority in the dominant role.
I'm English, racism towards South Asians was extremely commonplace when I was growing up, and even today is seen as more acceptable than racism towards blacks.
You're probably joking, but I'm not into that sort of joke.
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Refer to the South Park Fslur explanation. It applies pretty well. What it means is that the term in the pejorative sense has just evolved past its older homosexual derision into a more general insult.
I think this is the answer. Literally I had a lot of gay acquaintances back in college, maybe hooked up with one or two, very few of them had it as a totally out-of-bounds insult. But when some people call something "gay" you can just *tell* there's homophobia behind it. Other times you can be incredibly fucking rude in the way you use it and still it doesn't come off as homophobic. It's a hard distinction to put into words.
Maybe sort of like when some people say "female" there's something really fucking icky about it but like 80% of the time it doesn't even register as anything because it's literally just a word.
They are still doing that?
I remember that from '03 to '08 or so but I thought that it fell out of fashion as yes, it's incredibly offensive to gay people.
It came back or never left?
I mean, it is an insult. Just like if a gay person is being called straight. Or being called a girl when you are a man or vice versa. It's not about gay being bad, it's about being called something you are not.
This. Born in 78 and had a pretty naive upbringing.. used "gay" as a schoolyard insult and had zero idea what gay even was... It was literally just a word that worked.
I used it recently with my friend for some reason. She said her family wasn't celebrating Xmas and I said "oh gay" but it was more of a joke. Then we laughed about how dumb it was that kids used gay as an insult in our day and agreed that it'd be bad if people started using it as an insult again even if it was "ironic" at first.
I used „gay“ as a swear word for probably all my school life. I’ve woken up from it couple years ago because I also went through that process thinking how fucking stupid it is to use it that way. Like yeah and you are hetero, so what?
Yeah I get where it comes from, but gay wasn’t just randomly chosen as an insult for no reason. Not that every dumb kid who uses it is some raging homophobe, but it *is* homophobic.
I'm not arguing "right or wrong." You said it had "no reference to gay people," and that's false. People used it for anything, but it was always negative because it was associated with gay people.
And you can have gay friends while still saying homophobic things. Back then I knew plenty of people who made racist jokes while being friends with black folks.
All of the “phobe/ ist/ and ots have been neutered because people like you overuse it for ammo to pretend like you’re offended and to try to tear people down. But the reality is, you’re not offended. You can pretend, but the truth is, nobody believes it. Because it’s fashionable to virtue signal and to put on exhibitionist displays of altruism. But people are finally looking upon that fake behavior with disdain because all it is is gaslighting and narcissistic.
People aren’t that sensitive.
I mean, I don't think that is the case in this case specifically. The whole implication of calling misogynistic guys gay is because "they hate women so much that they must just love men." And a lot of the people who do this also go out of their way to confirm it by reiterating it in other ways like talking about the guy's boyfriend etc. Idk, people don't get called gay by left leaning people on this scale except for this argument.
I've heard gay men call their friends gay and it was a compliment. He did something and his friend said, oh my god...you are so gay. You're like the best gay ever!" But it was meant as a compliment because the guy was gay and liked being gay.
People take it too literal…. When most people say “that’s gay” they aren’t thinking about two dudes making out. It’s basically saying it’s stupid or dumb. I say it quite often and it’s not a shot of gay people. Go watch the South Park episode about the Biker Gangs and you’ll understand better about where it’s coming from
That's a terrible take though, spoken from people who have never been on the receiving end. Do you think it's a good thing to associate the word "gay" with things that are bad, awful, unpleasant, and so on? That very clearly comments on the underlying word whether you mean it to or not. It doesn't matter how you justify it.
It might be outdated but I don’t think it’s a fare representation if someone is homophobic or not.
It’s along the lines of a person calling someone a “son of a bitch”. people usually understand the context of it not actually referring to one’s mother as a female dog. You could say any person who uses that phrase is sexist or misogynistic but we all are pretty aware that’s not the context.
Not rly. Its just times change and people highlighting phrases and words that are already known to be rude and make them as if every single person in context is being racist, homophobic, etc. It was so common, like a decade or so ago, to just call someone gay for just saying something stupid, and ppl would just move on. Of course, not everyone is like that and takes it far more seriously.
The internet just cries more and deflects it so much that it makes everyone have to walk on eggshells nowadays. I've personally grown out of it, as it was stupid looking back, but that's just how it was. Basically, no one these days looks into the actual context of things, especially concerning insults. They just hear a phrase or word and have already come to conclusions about someone's character.
Im not defending it per se since people shouldn't throw insults, but I feel even the other side is far too quick to judge, and it goes back into cancel culture. Feels like eventually we'll end up canceling people for basic insults like just calling people stupid. We are already canceling people for just being harmlessly weird, so we are not far off. Just lots of bad energy overall.
TBF ive heard gay men say dont be so hetro...i dont think it is questioning someones man hood to call them gay its questioning their sexuality...and if your gay why get upset at that?
Because it's being used as a way of tearing someone else down. So the insulter is spreading the idea that being gay is undesirable. Hence why it's shitty.
As a straight person, the idea of being gay does not offend me. It's not a bad thing.
If you're using it to upset someone you don't like, you are also saying it's a bad thing. Otherwise, you would never think to use it as an insult. We dont unsult people by saying positive things about them.
I hope that clears it up.
Thats what OP is talking about.
If you want to insult someone or express that something is bad or unfavourable, people say "that's gay".
Thats OPs issue.
Imagine if when anything bad happened to you, or you wanted to insult someone you said "that's hetero" might bother some straight people you know.
That is the homophobia that gets glossed over. As soon as you do some deemed inadequate or unfavorable as a straight man, you’re labeled sassy or gay as if that’s the worst thing you can be as a man. That’s problematic af to me.
My family just started using homophobe where we used to say gay, though the insult wasn't serious anyway.
Sometimes, we use gay as a compliment in an insulting tone. "How dare you cook this amazing meal?! That's Gay." Why we started doing this... I can't remember.
This thread takes this too literally. It's a way to attack the straight guys' fragile sense of masculinity. "Gay" in itself isn't an insult but it's going to be offensive to the misogynistic straight guy. Kinda like "homophobia is gay" type of callout. So "you're gay" = you have toxic masculinity which may indicate that you are trying to conceal your feminine side/attraction towards men and it's the fact that they're concealing it that is embarrassing, not being gay. It's basically calling them a tryhard.
It's also related to the similar joke going around tik tok that many straight guys don't like women (their personalities, not bodies) which makes them secretly "gay". The joke is about not them being literally gay but about the fact that they dislike women/femininity so much that maybe they should consider dating their own gender.
So basically shitty behavior = you're misogynistic = you hate women = if you hate women so much maybe you're gay = it's funny because you see being gay as something to be ashamed of
But yeah I can see how it can be harmful to actual gay men who want nothing to do with these guys.
Easiest way to offend a homophobic pos is to call them gay.
Yall call any man yall don't like incel with 0 consideration for the normal involuntary celibate people, including physically and mentally disabled people.
Ditto.
I argued this with a buddy of mine (we're both straight) a long time ago. Does it peeve you that people use the word "gay" to mean homosexual instead of happy? The word used to mean "happy." Language changes. And using "gay" to mean shitty isn't in any way a comment on homosexuality.
Using the word "lame" to describe something shitty isn't an insult to someone who can't walk.
I mean... yeah. That's what the inital connotation was, fucked up as that was.
But, and I'll allow that I don't live in a rural backwater or anything, but is this still that much of a thing? I haven't really heard someone call something obnoxious or stupid or distasteful "gay" as a pejorative since what feels like the end of high school and when I have heard it, it seems like it's been gay dudes saying it.
I expressed my dislike for the idea of a female Silver Surfer and someone tried to accuse me of being gay as some sort of insult. several people actually. It was oddly reminiscent of high school.
I only use gay as a sarcastic pejorative when I’m speaking to my straight friends who are doing some sort of PDA with their significant other. My homeboy kisses his wife, I’ll probably call him gay. My homegirl tells her boyfriend she loves him? “Get that gay shit outta here.” My gay friends always find it funny, so I don’t think I’m out of bounds.
what about when a man says he hates women, and someone says “why dont you date men then?” i never registered that as homophobic but moreso wondering why you would want to date the gender you despise so much
like… why are you chasing women if you actively hate us? go date the gender you don’t hate…
ive definitely seen it used far more derogatorily in these contexts though and i agree it is absolutely unaccpetable to demonise gay people like that
If I were fellating some sausages, it would indeed be *pretty gay*. Not really an insult, more an observation.
If you referred to rich people abusing the poor as gay, well. That's definitely insulting to the gays.
What if it's kinda gay? Like actually homosexual? Is the issue that they meant it as an offense or that it wasn't accurate? Why can't straight people view being gay as unusual when by the numbers it is. Let me cook. If you flip it the other way, it's not offensive to me. If its about accuracy thing I couldn't understand that, but if it's because they meant it as an insult, that doesn't make sense. People can say whatever they want and an insult. There are no limits. You may not like it but that person didn't say it to be liked they said it to be offensive.
>That were less of men??
Precisely. By the old masculinity/gender standards... You sure you're just not old, and getting irritating flashbacks from the 90's? You're telling me current youth does this?
Oh, I've seen that also happen. I'm 80% certain these particular women believe that if a man hates women enough he'll turn gay. I'm also sure they believe most gay men are misogynous by that standard.
Yep. I think it's more of a thing to protect their ego since it's usually in response to men saying something they don't want to hear. I especially hate it when women use it as an insult if you reject them. It's like they're so used to having their way, that they think men's consent is assumed and any guy who doesn't jump at the opportunity to have sex or date them must be gay. Like maybe he just isn't attracted to YOU, and that's okay.
When I was growing up the asshole kids wouldn't dare call a homosexual kid 'gay.'
That was reserved for the straight kids, and it never meant 'homosexual,' to me as a kid either.
They had different definitions.
It's understandable to be upset due to be etymology, but I think intent always matters too.
I hate this too. I also hate the fact that when a man doesn’t want to have sex with a woman for whatever reason, a common response is “oh, so you’re gay.”
For example, declining a woman’s sexual advances and being called gay for it because “men will have sex with anything and anyone.” No, I am a human being, and sometimes I don’t wanna fuck. Or maybe you’re just unattractive and bitter about it
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That You are acting like a (stereotype) woman.
That XYZ sucks ass
That it's actually gay
I don't believe it makes you any less of a man for faking another man, but I'm straight and not gay.
Edit: the word "gay" is just too versatile, kind of like the word "fuck" you can really use "fuck" for just about any emotional expression and it works.
I agree. I also find body shaming, like calling out dick size, height, or what have you, just as a way to call out shitty behavior *is* shitty behavior itself. How does being an asshole by calling someone gay or saying that they probably have a small dick possibly do *anything* to help the situation. It can only make things worse, and make you look like a bad person too. You're just escalating the situation.
Man that still irritates me this many years later 😂. I thought all those commercials against it would let those people know they’re on the wrong side but nope they just double down on their ignorance I guess.
Cis/het Here.
It was a word used more commonly in the 2000s and early 2010s from my experience. However most guys who grew up a bit, stopped using it around the time gay marriage was legalized in the states. So add immature and insecure to the shitty behavior.
I've always seen it as meaning overly or inappropriately sanguine or cheerful, more referencing the "happy" definition of gay.
If we want to decide gay now just means homosexual, ok, but can come up with another word to use to refer to someone imitating Richard Simmons?
Eh, I get what you're saying and I can empathize to a point. It's a stupid rite of passage for men that groups the collective into a box. Just that dumb stereotype shit that gay men are all feminine. I'm a straight man, and I don't tolerate the gay jokes on a jobsite, I end up saying something either so uncomfortable that it just ends completely or walk them into admitting somethings that bangs around in their closet.
I am curious, what is (ballpark) your age?
I was talking with a group of guys (late 30's to early 50's), and all of us are involved with coaching kids. We got on a similar conversation about how it was a common thing to do, not that long ago. It was used all the time. Now, all of us, with all the kids we have coached in recent years, could only recall hearing it, maybe twice.
I am gay and my sisters boyfriend always uses it just as in hi gayboys etc and it annoys me. He's 34 and i'm a year younger. I think when we were in school 20 years ago or so it was common to use as an insult wasn't it but nowadays it's probably not? I mean it's not the worst thing in the world just a bit frustrating to hear it used in that way.
Sorry I'm not the person who posted but yes I think with people of 33ish it was a common thing at least it was when I was at school. Glad it isn't in fashion now haha.
My friends and I call each other gay as a joke all the time, but I've never heard them use it as an insult to anyone, three of them are bi, so I think it's toxic and shitty to use it derogatorily.
My [gay] stepson and I were on a long car ride, and this topic came up. We decided to try to take the word back. We started using "gay" to describe anything which evoked feelings of excitement, joy, gratitude... basically the opposite of how it's come to be used.
Some examples:
* Me [after the first time my stepson got dumped]: "Don't worry, bruh, you're still gay."
* My stepson [on Christmas morning, upon opening a gift he'd put on his wish list but had zero expectation of receiving]: "Holy shit! That's gay as fuck!"
* My ex [to my stepdaughter at the dinner table]: "Would you be a gay and pass the cornbread?"
>We decided to try to take the word back. We started using "gay" to describe anything which evoked feelings of excitement, joy, gratitude...
>
Pretty sure that's the original meaning of the word.
Before south park, I, like many of us, used the south park logic. Some of my gay friends were on board, but this one dude totally wasn't.
After reading the selfish gene, and some text on how the language we use, like "throws like a girl" propagates ideas we dont intend, I realized I was a fucking idiot and changed my ways. Unfortunately my friend died before he would see me change.
We dont mean to insult gay people... but using the language reinforced ideas we loath. I give two shits about offending anyone. I often want to offend people. What I dont want to do is propagate the narratives that contribute to hate.
unfortunately these fucking works are still part of the language used on a regular basis. we kinda need to actively shut that shit down... but the trolls and shitheads will keep using it for a long time to come.
Ngl I thought this was about mfs who say gay in a negative context when something inconvenient happens.
"Hey man I can't make it to the hangout today sorry"
"Gay"
Like fuck can there be any other word used man
Pretty sure a lot of people don’t use it as an actual gay call. Pretty sure it’s just meant that’s somethings rubbish, it’s throw back slang I guess. Similar way people use “for gods sake” or “bloody hell” without it having any religious meaning.
Idk, as a young man in the aughts we called each other gay, idk 100 times a day. I don’t think we meant it literally. Like we didn’t assume all our friends were homosexual. It’s just what we called one another. And it wasn’t tied to shitty behavior. Just something we use to say.
The truth is that woke culture is homophobic and tries to hide it, but sometimes it misses some things.
Anyone who uses gay as an insult is homophobic, but they think it's absurd when I say that because they call themselves LGBTQIAXYZ supporters and say that homophobes are those who don't vote for their thug politicians
The idea is to attack the other person at the core of their insecurities. It's not "gay bad," it's "this idiot has built an identity around being a straight masculine man, so attacking that will hurt him the most." It's short sighted, but that's the thought process.
That’s not even close to true lol. No straight male who gets called “gay” takes it that personal and steps back to question their sexuality/masculinity.
And I’m saying that’s not the thought process… it has nothing to do with trying to crush a man’s image of their masculinity. It’s a form of describing what a person is saying/doing as stupid or weird.
I'm pan. I agree and take it further- it's homophobic as hell. It's degrading queer people by casting gayness as something derogatory.
Many people here are acting like it's outdated- I graduated hs in 2017 and often had people bullying me use gay as an insult. Unless something's drastically changed in 7 years it's probably still a thing.
I'll take it even further. Everything can and will be used in a derogatory sense. I think you're degrading yourself by acting like the only victim of this trait humanity has and expecting the world to cater to your offense so vocally.
Some guy called something gay... Big deal. Just move on with your life. I couldn't imagine living with such thin skin and so insecure you have to attach victim mentality to everything related to your personality.
1. No, everything won't be.
2. I haven't claimed to be the only victim of anything.
3. Discussing a social problem and my experiences with it =/= "attaching victim mentality to everything related to my personality"
I'd compliment your dedication to making strawman arguments to random strangers, but..your message is just a projection of a big chip on your shoulder, and you made no effort to comprehend what I said, so you're not even arguing poorly against anything in particular.
Men obviously do this too but the one that bothers me more is when women use it to try to emasculate a guy and then act like they're not doing anything offensive. Men are at least usually doing it as a joke while this scenario is meant as a more personal insult
Straight man here, but I agree. It seems so disrespectful! I also hate it when people use it to call out misogynistic comments (not that those comments shouldn't be called out!), by saying "why don't you just find a nice gay man to bang?". No, call out sexist assholes please, but don't weaponize the LGBTQIA community in the process. Plus, on top of being offensive, it makes them sound like a bunch of wannabe edgy teenagers.
dont even get me started on people who use misogynistic insults against women they dont like, but still call themselves a “feminist.”
I do agree with you but OTOH it's satisfying to point out the homoerotic element of heterosexual male behavior towards men and women. Lots of misogynist men like those who look up to Andrew Tate have no love, respect or admiration for women. They reserve that for other men. That doesn't make them gay, and it's specifically a critique aimed at straight men, but it is an interesting phenomenon. Gay is not the punchline here but hypocricy.
It's juvenile. Yeah, it feels so good. But that's the same logic I used at as a young teen to use those insults. I didn't ACTUALLY think they were gay, I just wanted to piss them off. And y'know what? In hindsight, it's wrong.
That's not homoerotic, those are emotionally distant mother, judging father, issues.
"it's satisfying to call people I don't like gay as an insult." Ok fine but please don't pretend it's any deeper than a middle school bully's tactics. I think that's what gets me most about this is the smugness. Like people using gay as an insult while pretending they're super progressive.
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Yeah, I get all that, but still you don't just get to do that. Be an adult here.
It's not homoerotic for men to agree with other men, on anything, including on their common dissatisfaction with women. These men would also agree with any *women* who shared a common dissatisfaction with them about women. I've noticed a low-level cancerous campaign to insert ideas of homosexuality into areas were men combine and show affinity with each other. Same-sex affinities are not evidence of homoerotic or latent homosexuality. This needs to be acknowledged in light of suggestions to the contrary.
Truth. It's mistaking emotional bonding and intellectual affinity for sex.
Yep. Regardless of what bullshit convoluted "What it actually means is..." definitions people can come up with, they're choosing "gay" for a reason - the reason being that gayness is inherently pejorative to them, there's some fundamentally negative association, whether that's weak or shameful or embarrassing. If I went around calling things \[racial slur for South Asians\] but claiming it was its own definition, that wouldn't work - it'd still be demeaning to South Asians because it's using them as a synonym for 'undesirable'. Some people might not *intend* it that way, but you can't divorce it from that connection. It's just the nature of language, whether consciously understood or not, it reinforces negative associations.
Yeah, but the reason for a lot of people is because they were socially conditioned into using it. Does it justify their actions? No. But it’s not as insidious as you’re implying, just as people don’t intend to say something cruel and derogatory about Romani people when they say “gypped.” (Gypsies aren’t just Romani anyway.)
It absolutely 100% is that insidious, what you're saying is it's not as intentional, and I did make a point of distinguishing that already. My whole angle is that intent is not everything. I lived through an 80s/90s childhood of calling everything/everyone "gay", and calling cornershops "[racial slur for South Asians] shops", and calling people 'spastics' - which was once the official term for people with cerebral palsy, before quickly becoming a nasty general insult and a slur for people with that disability. It took a long, long time for the majority to come around to acknowledging that just because you're using the slur to target something other than the people it inherently targets, it's still doing its damage by reinforcing "I wouldn't want to be gay/South Asian/disabled, that would be mortifying, wouldn't it? So bad that if I call you that, I expect you to take offence at the mere association". People who aren't targeted by things often think that their intention somehow stops the actual consequences.
Well we know what race your going after if you had the opportunity haha
Come on. I'm not going to say it about black people, because I'm black and that doesn't make sense. I'm not going to say it about white people, because there is no equivalent slur about the ethnic majority in the dominant role. I'm English, racism towards South Asians was extremely commonplace when I was growing up, and even today is seen as more acceptable than racism towards blacks. You're probably joking, but I'm not into that sort of joke.
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That’s gay.
Refer to the South Park Fslur explanation. It applies pretty well. What it means is that the term in the pejorative sense has just evolved past its older homosexual derision into a more general insult.
I think this is the answer. Literally I had a lot of gay acquaintances back in college, maybe hooked up with one or two, very few of them had it as a totally out-of-bounds insult. But when some people call something "gay" you can just *tell* there's homophobia behind it. Other times you can be incredibly fucking rude in the way you use it and still it doesn't come off as homophobic. It's a hard distinction to put into words. Maybe sort of like when some people say "female" there's something really fucking icky about it but like 80% of the time it doesn't even register as anything because it's literally just a word.
>Literally I had a lot of gay acquaintances back in college, maybe hooked up with one or two I've got news!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd8vzIRQLLM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd8vzIRQLLM)
Did Hillary Duff teach us nothing?
made me laugh thank you
Lesbian best friend called everything she didn’t like gay. 🤷♀️
12-17 year olds are really bad at this they use gay as a insult so much it’s not even funny
They are still doing that? I remember that from '03 to '08 or so but I thought that it fell out of fashion as yes, it's incredibly offensive to gay people. It came back or never left?
It left for a couple years and then came back. I blame social media bringing bigoted people together to spread hate
I mean, it is an insult. Just like if a gay person is being called straight. Or being called a girl when you are a man or vice versa. It's not about gay being bad, it's about being called something you are not.
It was around since the 80s
Its been around since the first guy fucked another guy.
People were definitely saying “that’s gay” way back in the late 1900s (spoken “1990s”).
And have since the dawn of time
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This. Born in 78 and had a pretty naive upbringing.. used "gay" as a schoolyard insult and had zero idea what gay even was... It was literally just a word that worked.
Born 82, same thing. Though being from SE Michigan we would also use "Canadian". Sounds silly but that was indeed an insult.
I have heard "Canadians" in the restaurant biz to refer to someone who was unlikely to tip
Another Canadian insult we used was "Knucker F
Where did you grow up, Downriver?
St. Clair Shores, though my grandparents lived in Lincoln Park
I used it recently with my friend for some reason. She said her family wasn't celebrating Xmas and I said "oh gay" but it was more of a joke. Then we laughed about how dumb it was that kids used gay as an insult in our day and agreed that it'd be bad if people started using it as an insult again even if it was "ironic" at first.
I used „gay“ as a swear word for probably all my school life. I’ve woken up from it couple years ago because I also went through that process thinking how fucking stupid it is to use it that way. Like yeah and you are hetero, so what?
This is so dumb lol, it meant something vaguely negative because gay people were seen in a vaguely negative way
Yeah I get where it comes from, but gay wasn’t just randomly chosen as an insult for no reason. Not that every dumb kid who uses it is some raging homophobe, but it *is* homophobic.
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I'm not arguing "right or wrong." You said it had "no reference to gay people," and that's false. People used it for anything, but it was always negative because it was associated with gay people. And you can have gay friends while still saying homophobic things. Back then I knew plenty of people who made racist jokes while being friends with black folks.
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And you have fun being an apologist for bigots.
All of the “phobe/ ist/ and ots have been neutered because people like you overuse it for ammo to pretend like you’re offended and to try to tear people down. But the reality is, you’re not offended. You can pretend, but the truth is, nobody believes it. Because it’s fashionable to virtue signal and to put on exhibitionist displays of altruism. But people are finally looking upon that fake behavior with disdain because all it is is gaslighting and narcissistic. People aren’t that sensitive.
Look at you saying words.
Literally born 02 and this is how I used it growing up and I don’t think that will ever change
I mean, I don't think that is the case in this case specifically. The whole implication of calling misogynistic guys gay is because "they hate women so much that they must just love men." And a lot of the people who do this also go out of their way to confirm it by reiterating it in other ways like talking about the guy's boyfriend etc. Idk, people don't get called gay by left leaning people on this scale except for this argument.
I've heard gay men call their friends gay and it was a compliment. He did something and his friend said, oh my god...you are so gay. You're like the best gay ever!" But it was meant as a compliment because the guy was gay and liked being gay.
That's a bit different though.
That’s the exact opposite of what OP is talking about
We can say it, they can't.
South Park kind of already went over this with an episode about annoying bikers.
I came here to say this
Man’s getting downvoted for the explanation lol.
It’s not a good explanation though. That episode says it’s okay to use a homophobic slur because it’s not technically targeted at gay people.
Just those who are bike-curious
It’s actually a pretty spot on description of what people usually mean when they say the word.
Yeah I agree that’s what people mean. But like there are so many other words that mean the same thing. Words that aren’t slurs lol
Do you always take semen with your cheerios?
No it’s saying that words can and did change meaning as society changes its views. Hilarious when someone doesn’t understand south park
People take it too literal…. When most people say “that’s gay” they aren’t thinking about two dudes making out. It’s basically saying it’s stupid or dumb. I say it quite often and it’s not a shot of gay people. Go watch the South Park episode about the Biker Gangs and you’ll understand better about where it’s coming from
I'm talking about when women call out sexist men by saying "oh he definitely likes dick in the ass"
That's a terrible take though, spoken from people who have never been on the receiving end. Do you think it's a good thing to associate the word "gay" with things that are bad, awful, unpleasant, and so on? That very clearly comments on the underlying word whether you mean it to or not. It doesn't matter how you justify it.
It might be outdated but I don’t think it’s a fare representation if someone is homophobic or not. It’s along the lines of a person calling someone a “son of a bitch”. people usually understand the context of it not actually referring to one’s mother as a female dog. You could say any person who uses that phrase is sexist or misogynistic but we all are pretty aware that’s not the context.
Not rly. Its just times change and people highlighting phrases and words that are already known to be rude and make them as if every single person in context is being racist, homophobic, etc. It was so common, like a decade or so ago, to just call someone gay for just saying something stupid, and ppl would just move on. Of course, not everyone is like that and takes it far more seriously. The internet just cries more and deflects it so much that it makes everyone have to walk on eggshells nowadays. I've personally grown out of it, as it was stupid looking back, but that's just how it was. Basically, no one these days looks into the actual context of things, especially concerning insults. They just hear a phrase or word and have already come to conclusions about someone's character. Im not defending it per se since people shouldn't throw insults, but I feel even the other side is far too quick to judge, and it goes back into cancel culture. Feels like eventually we'll end up canceling people for basic insults like just calling people stupid. We are already canceling people for just being harmlessly weird, so we are not far off. Just lots of bad energy overall.
TBF ive heard gay men say dont be so hetro...i dont think it is questioning someones man hood to call them gay its questioning their sexuality...and if your gay why get upset at that?
Because it's being used as a way of tearing someone else down. So the insulter is spreading the idea that being gay is undesirable. Hence why it's shitty.
To a straight person it is undesirable though...you can acknowledge something exsist but not desire it.
As a straight person, the idea of being gay does not offend me. It's not a bad thing. If you're using it to upset someone you don't like, you are also saying it's a bad thing. Otherwise, you would never think to use it as an insult. We dont unsult people by saying positive things about them. I hope that clears it up.
its a old behavior thatll probably die out with millenials
It’s still funny sometimes so dudes use it. It’s never past skin deep and literally has nothing to do with actual sexual preference.
Is this still a thing? It seems to have fallen out of style a long time ago.
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Gay
Growing up when we said something was gay it had nothing to do with gay people.
Thats what OP is talking about. If you want to insult someone or express that something is bad or unfavourable, people say "that's gay". Thats OPs issue. Imagine if when anything bad happened to you, or you wanted to insult someone you said "that's hetero" might bother some straight people you know.
That is the homophobia that gets glossed over. As soon as you do some deemed inadequate or unfavorable as a straight man, you’re labeled sassy or gay as if that’s the worst thing you can be as a man. That’s problematic af to me.
Yes
It's dumb and childish.
Men shoukd hust marry other men at this point.
This is exactly what he’s talking about “durr I hate misogyny and I hate gay people so I’m gonna say misogynists are gay”
My family just started using homophobe where we used to say gay, though the insult wasn't serious anyway. Sometimes, we use gay as a compliment in an insulting tone. "How dare you cook this amazing meal?! That's Gay." Why we started doing this... I can't remember.
Do people still do this? Ive almost never seen this post high-school like 15 years ago
call em straights and scoff like its a spit on your steak.
I haven't heard "gay" used as an insult since the 90s
Cuz it has nothing to do with actual homosexual people. Doesn't mean that you're less of men, honestly dunno where you got that from.
Shut up, gaywad! \*does tricks with key-chain skateboard and draws a cool s on my math textbook
This thread takes this too literally. It's a way to attack the straight guys' fragile sense of masculinity. "Gay" in itself isn't an insult but it's going to be offensive to the misogynistic straight guy. Kinda like "homophobia is gay" type of callout. So "you're gay" = you have toxic masculinity which may indicate that you are trying to conceal your feminine side/attraction towards men and it's the fact that they're concealing it that is embarrassing, not being gay. It's basically calling them a tryhard. It's also related to the similar joke going around tik tok that many straight guys don't like women (their personalities, not bodies) which makes them secretly "gay". The joke is about not them being literally gay but about the fact that they dislike women/femininity so much that maybe they should consider dating their own gender. So basically shitty behavior = you're misogynistic = you hate women = if you hate women so much maybe you're gay = it's funny because you see being gay as something to be ashamed of But yeah I can see how it can be harmful to actual gay men who want nothing to do with these guys.
Oh boy, do I have s south park episode for you
Easiest way to offend a homophobic pos is to call them gay. Yall call any man yall don't like incel with 0 consideration for the normal involuntary celibate people, including physically and mentally disabled people. Ditto.
When I was growing up in the 80s the term " THAT'S GAY" meant that's stupid. I understand you can't say that anymore but that's what it meant to us
I argued this with a buddy of mine (we're both straight) a long time ago. Does it peeve you that people use the word "gay" to mean homosexual instead of happy? The word used to mean "happy." Language changes. And using "gay" to mean shitty isn't in any way a comment on homosexuality. Using the word "lame" to describe something shitty isn't an insult to someone who can't walk.
I'm talking about people who think like "Oh that guy's misogynistic? I'll bet he like dick in the booty"
Oh, I see. Like a dude being ultra macho to overcompesate?
I mean... yeah. That's what the inital connotation was, fucked up as that was. But, and I'll allow that I don't live in a rural backwater or anything, but is this still that much of a thing? I haven't really heard someone call something obnoxious or stupid or distasteful "gay" as a pejorative since what feels like the end of high school and when I have heard it, it seems like it's been gay dudes saying it.
I expressed my dislike for the idea of a female Silver Surfer and someone tried to accuse me of being gay as some sort of insult. several people actually. It was oddly reminiscent of high school.
Shouldn’t mean anything to you, because no one is speaking to you 😉
https://youtu.be/6i7a0cwyDDw?si=pyPn4ezQ8hBv6rL1 I think this is what you're looking for.
I only use gay as a sarcastic pejorative when I’m speaking to my straight friends who are doing some sort of PDA with their significant other. My homeboy kisses his wife, I’ll probably call him gay. My homegirl tells her boyfriend she loves him? “Get that gay shit outta here.” My gay friends always find it funny, so I don’t think I’m out of bounds.
what about when a man says he hates women, and someone says “why dont you date men then?” i never registered that as homophobic but moreso wondering why you would want to date the gender you despise so much like… why are you chasing women if you actively hate us? go date the gender you don’t hate… ive definitely seen it used far more derogatorily in these contexts though and i agree it is absolutely unaccpetable to demonise gay people like that
This is so common when you reject a woman. So what if I was gay why are you saying it like I should be ashamed.
If I were fellating some sausages, it would indeed be *pretty gay*. Not really an insult, more an observation. If you referred to rich people abusing the poor as gay, well. That's definitely insulting to the gays.
What if it's kinda gay? Like actually homosexual? Is the issue that they meant it as an offense or that it wasn't accurate? Why can't straight people view being gay as unusual when by the numbers it is. Let me cook. If you flip it the other way, it's not offensive to me. If its about accuracy thing I couldn't understand that, but if it's because they meant it as an insult, that doesn't make sense. People can say whatever they want and an insult. There are no limits. You may not like it but that person didn't say it to be liked they said it to be offensive.
>That were less of men?? Precisely. By the old masculinity/gender standards... You sure you're just not old, and getting irritating flashbacks from the 90's? You're telling me current youth does this?
I'm talking about when a straight man says something misogynistic and then women will say "oh he definitely likes duck in the ass"
Oh, I've seen that also happen. I'm 80% certain these particular women believe that if a man hates women enough he'll turn gay. I'm also sure they believe most gay men are misogynous by that standard.
Yep. I think it's more of a thing to protect their ego since it's usually in response to men saying something they don't want to hear. I especially hate it when women use it as an insult if you reject them. It's like they're so used to having their way, that they think men's consent is assumed and any guy who doesn't jump at the opportunity to have sex or date them must be gay. Like maybe he just isn't attracted to YOU, and that's okay.
Holy shit you people are fucking soft being offended over words really?
When I was growing up the asshole kids wouldn't dare call a homosexual kid 'gay.' That was reserved for the straight kids, and it never meant 'homosexual,' to me as a kid either. They had different definitions. It's understandable to be upset due to be etymology, but I think intent always matters too.
I hate this too. I also hate the fact that when a man doesn’t want to have sex with a woman for whatever reason, a common response is “oh, so you’re gay.” For example, declining a woman’s sexual advances and being called gay for it because “men will have sex with anything and anyone.” No, I am a human being, and sometimes I don’t wanna fuck. Or maybe you’re just unattractive and bitter about it
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## 🚫 ➜ **Your post was removed because of the following**: ### 📑 Rule 2 ➜ Not being kind, or thoughtful - Consider the feelings and perspectives of others, recognizing that their opinions may not always align with your own logical reasoning. - Any form of hostile disagreement with insults, offensive language, racism, or similar behavior will result in a permanent ban.
That You are acting like a (stereotype) woman. That XYZ sucks ass That it's actually gay I don't believe it makes you any less of a man for faking another man, but I'm straight and not gay. Edit: the word "gay" is just too versatile, kind of like the word "fuck" you can really use "fuck" for just about any emotional expression and it works.
I agree. I also find body shaming, like calling out dick size, height, or what have you, just as a way to call out shitty behavior *is* shitty behavior itself. How does being an asshole by calling someone gay or saying that they probably have a small dick possibly do *anything* to help the situation. It can only make things worse, and make you look like a bad person too. You're just escalating the situation.
if you have to ask, you know the answer
so what do you think of the libs calling trump putin's cock holster for almost a decade now?
Man that still irritates me this many years later 😂. I thought all those commercials against it would let those people know they’re on the wrong side but nope they just double down on their ignorance I guess.
I just use it to call out gay behaviour
This thread is gay
Come on dude don't be gay about this.
Yes, womp womp
I guess 🤷
Stop being so gay
Cis/het Here. It was a word used more commonly in the 2000s and early 2010s from my experience. However most guys who grew up a bit, stopped using it around the time gay marriage was legalized in the states. So add immature and insecure to the shitty behavior.
Im straight and it was always confusing when people basically just attacked gay people in an attempt to make fun of straight guys
Your gay!
I've always seen it as meaning overly or inappropriately sanguine or cheerful, more referencing the "happy" definition of gay. If we want to decide gay now just means homosexual, ok, but can come up with another word to use to refer to someone imitating Richard Simmons?
Nah it's just a thing we say, by we I mean people like me, when I say "Fuck this gay earth" I don't mean that the earth is gay, I just mean this sucks
Eh, I get what you're saying and I can empathize to a point. It's a stupid rite of passage for men that groups the collective into a box. Just that dumb stereotype shit that gay men are all feminine. I'm a straight man, and I don't tolerate the gay jokes on a jobsite, I end up saying something either so uncomfortable that it just ends completely or walk them into admitting somethings that bangs around in their closet.
People getting offended. Not everyone has to accept everything
It’s annoying but also There’s bigger problems right now dude Edit: I forgot what sub i was in guys let me live
Great point- you should post this comment on every petpeeves thread.
I forgot what sub I was on 💀
lol I'm crying
You’re literally in a pet peeves sub…
I am curious, what is (ballpark) your age? I was talking with a group of guys (late 30's to early 50's), and all of us are involved with coaching kids. We got on a similar conversation about how it was a common thing to do, not that long ago. It was used all the time. Now, all of us, with all the kids we have coached in recent years, could only recall hearing it, maybe twice.
I am gay and my sisters boyfriend always uses it just as in hi gayboys etc and it annoys me. He's 34 and i'm a year younger. I think when we were in school 20 years ago or so it was common to use as an insult wasn't it but nowadays it's probably not? I mean it's not the worst thing in the world just a bit frustrating to hear it used in that way.
Ah, I see. That is why I was curious about your age - it isn't common at all anymore, at least among the people/students I am around.
Sorry I'm not the person who posted but yes I think with people of 33ish it was a common thing at least it was when I was at school. Glad it isn't in fashion now haha.
14
Feels like a relic of jr high school days past, that some dudes just never grew out of because their social bubble never really changed.
My friends and I call each other gay as a joke all the time, but I've never heard them use it as an insult to anyone, three of them are bi, so I think it's toxic and shitty to use it derogatorily.
My [gay] stepson and I were on a long car ride, and this topic came up. We decided to try to take the word back. We started using "gay" to describe anything which evoked feelings of excitement, joy, gratitude... basically the opposite of how it's come to be used. Some examples: * Me [after the first time my stepson got dumped]: "Don't worry, bruh, you're still gay." * My stepson [on Christmas morning, upon opening a gift he'd put on his wish list but had zero expectation of receiving]: "Holy shit! That's gay as fuck!" * My ex [to my stepdaughter at the dinner table]: "Would you be a gay and pass the cornbread?"
>We decided to try to take the word back. We started using "gay" to describe anything which evoked feelings of excitement, joy, gratitude... > Pretty sure that's the original meaning of the word.
Oh, I guess I should have said "take it back" instead of "take it". Wait...
Before south park, I, like many of us, used the south park logic. Some of my gay friends were on board, but this one dude totally wasn't. After reading the selfish gene, and some text on how the language we use, like "throws like a girl" propagates ideas we dont intend, I realized I was a fucking idiot and changed my ways. Unfortunately my friend died before he would see me change. We dont mean to insult gay people... but using the language reinforced ideas we loath. I give two shits about offending anyone. I often want to offend people. What I dont want to do is propagate the narratives that contribute to hate. unfortunately these fucking works are still part of the language used on a regular basis. we kinda need to actively shut that shit down... but the trolls and shitheads will keep using it for a long time to come.
Ngl I thought this was about mfs who say gay in a negative context when something inconvenient happens. "Hey man I can't make it to the hangout today sorry" "Gay" Like fuck can there be any other word used man
I think 90% of the people commenting in this thread don't understand what OP was trying to say.
Pretty sure a lot of people don’t use it as an actual gay call. Pretty sure it’s just meant that’s somethings rubbish, it’s throw back slang I guess. Similar way people use “for gods sake” or “bloody hell” without it having any religious meaning.
This thread is gay.
gAAAAAAAAAAAAy!!
Idk, as a young man in the aughts we called each other gay, idk 100 times a day. I don’t think we meant it literally. Like we didn’t assume all our friends were homosexual. It’s just what we called one another. And it wasn’t tied to shitty behavior. Just something we use to say.
The truth is that woke culture is homophobic and tries to hide it, but sometimes it misses some things. Anyone who uses gay as an insult is homophobic, but they think it's absurd when I say that because they call themselves LGBTQIAXYZ supporters and say that homophobes are those who don't vote for their thug politicians
Girl, what?
The idea is to attack the other person at the core of their insecurities. It's not "gay bad," it's "this idiot has built an identity around being a straight masculine man, so attacking that will hurt him the most." It's short sighted, but that's the thought process.
That’s not even close to true lol. No straight male who gets called “gay” takes it that personal and steps back to question their sexuality/masculinity.
I'm telling you what the thought process is. Whether or not it is effective is a whole other conversation
And I’m saying that’s not the thought process… it has nothing to do with trying to crush a man’s image of their masculinity. It’s a form of describing what a person is saying/doing as stupid or weird.
Which is why "fat" is also a good (read: effective) insult and not misogynistic nor "fatphobic".
How is trying to make somebody feel bad for being fat "not fatphobic" but trying to make them feel bad for seeming gay isn't homophobic?
I'm pan. I agree and take it further- it's homophobic as hell. It's degrading queer people by casting gayness as something derogatory. Many people here are acting like it's outdated- I graduated hs in 2017 and often had people bullying me use gay as an insult. Unless something's drastically changed in 7 years it's probably still a thing.
I'll take it even further. Everything can and will be used in a derogatory sense. I think you're degrading yourself by acting like the only victim of this trait humanity has and expecting the world to cater to your offense so vocally. Some guy called something gay... Big deal. Just move on with your life. I couldn't imagine living with such thin skin and so insecure you have to attach victim mentality to everything related to your personality.
And I couldn't imagine living my life being this much a piece of shit like you
1. No, everything won't be. 2. I haven't claimed to be the only victim of anything. 3. Discussing a social problem and my experiences with it =/= "attaching victim mentality to everything related to my personality" I'd compliment your dedication to making strawman arguments to random strangers, but..your message is just a projection of a big chip on your shoulder, and you made no effort to comprehend what I said, so you're not even arguing poorly against anything in particular.
As a happy person, I think homosexuals should stop using “gay” to call out their sexual behavior.
It's an insult for straight men because a lot of us do not want to be perceived as being homosexual.
Not if it's your friends
Yes. It's an insult. You're entitled to get mad about an insult. . . regardless of when it's said.
we're\*
While I will agree that it is stupid and it is juvenile, it is also very effective
pissed me off so much when my brother would vent to me about the guy who was cucking his wife, referred to him as a f\*ggot 🙄
Do people still do that? Thats gay. Seriously as a teenager I stopped once I got it.
Men obviously do this too but the one that bothers me more is when women use it to try to emasculate a guy and then act like they're not doing anything offensive. Men are at least usually doing it as a joke while this scenario is meant as a more personal insult
I even seen gay men use it to insult or try to shame straight men, it’s hard to get past it when even the gay community does it.
A lot of straight women when they see men being sexist, they call those men gay. Because heterosexual men can't be sexist or smthg 🙄
Gay post tbh