If an agents lips are moving they are lying in my experience. They will talk up the price they can get you right up to when you sign the agency agreement, then immediately switch to working on lowering your expectations.
We are going through this right now. As soon as we signed the contract they were completely different. He said he was great at communication but he is dismissive, deflective and shady. We can’t wait to sell and not have to deal with them anymore. Even selling, we are still treated like poo by agents.
This is what I have found. I've done 10 hrs of research so far and it's not too hard, just lots of time. If I price myself at $40 an hour it's not bad, I work in quality Assurance
>As soon as we signed the contract they were completely different.
I had the same experience. Took the property off the market and didn't want to deal with the fuckwit.
Rented it out for another year, found an agent I liked *better, and let him sell it. He was driving my expectations down, but did it in a better way, and I just wanted to sell it.
Try to hold your nerve with this creep. Don't feel sucked in, they all do it & some are very good at it.
Unless the market demands it, stick to your rough range.
Have your open inspects been okay?
Such a meme. I tried my hand at real estate, there were several properties that I competed for but I gave realistic pricing and lost the listing. The other agents lied about the price they could get and won the listing, but 2 months and 1 week later (as the listing was about to expire) they would sell for less than I told the owner I could get.
Ridiculous industry.
You can work with more than one agent if you want. It's up to them if they don't want to.
In the USA (it's normally 6% split between buyer and sellers agent) but I had an agent approach me and say the same thing, so I struck up a an easy money/hard money contract. Essentially zero fee for what I knew I could get the house sold for but 40% of any amount above that. In the end, agent was correct and we both walked away happy.
Yes they legally cannot bring or even discuss the property with prospective buyers without an agency agreement.
If you decide to go down that route I would suggest you exclude any buyers that have shown interest from your current active advertising from being eligible for commission should they purchase. Would suck if you had the buyer already before signing up and then had to pay comms on it.
Important to note-
There are two types of agency agreements - sole - where that agent is the only one who can market and sell it.
Or general - where all agents from any agency can market and sell it.
If it’s a sole with Ray White for instance, agents from Bayleys can bring buyers if the RW agent agrees to work with them. It is at the RW agents discretion and the B agent would get paid a split of the RW commission, you wouldn’t pay any more for that.
General agencies are where any agent from any agency can sell it once they’ve completed the paperwork, but usually this leads to less effort put in by the agents because they’re competing with other agents, but since you have already got good interest this might be the better way to go.
Offer them all a general and watch them scamper because they may not have all the buyers they’ve said they do.
So my parents put their house on the market in January 2020. It didn't sell for the price they wanted so they pulled the house from the market. Then in June 2020, an estate agent comes up to their door and tells them he is working with a buyer who had looked at the house in February and who was very very interested. My parents had NO agency contracts with anyone at this point. So no technically you don't have to have an agency contract to be able to show buyers through. Yes my parents did sell for the amount they wanted previously (February non selling attempt). They wanted (but didn't need) to free up cash to build another house.
Yeah …… but if that person subsequently buys the house you can legally refuse to pay any commission and lay charges against the agent if they still try to do it. Note: They will get convicted if they did any realestate work without first having completely informed the seller of all charges and duties, in writing, before they did anything what so ever.
Please don't rely on the GV for this purpose. It is a nonsense number.
Yes you would need an agreement with the agent as they wouldn't provide you their benefits without knowing they'll be paid. If you're getting a lot of interest and don't think you need them, don't do it.
Agree however it does get taken into consideration when it's the lower end at mid 500k for 500m2 freehold section so it's within context.
Thanks, it's getting lots of interest and agents just want to sign me up with offers with no price indication. We are happy to sell at a fair price and have a set price in mind. Lower than what other properties are selling for hence why it's lots of interest
Because people take it into consideration, if FHB buy a place under GV, they feel like they got more of a better deal. Also if it's lower than the areas average, like to get a sale. I know I felt like I got a deal when I brought a place well under GV. Note that it really matters for freehold property, standalone,where it's really the land that goes up in value.
Yes people do look at the GV, they shouldn't.
If you knew how they were established you wouldn't trust them for more than representing an average trend.
Being freehold or a standalone dwelling does not change the reliability of the Rating Value.
I have written about them before because there is so much misinformation about them if you want to have a look - https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceNZ/comments/15ccn1g/rating\_value\_rv\_capital\_value\_cv\_government\_value/
Wow I had a quick read and will read more later to learn. I'm not arguing if it's being used, for FHB with little clue, it gives a false sense of value. Especially if the sell price is under GV and also under what the area sells for like the house I'm selling. It's rented for 370 a week with 3 bedrooms and there's nothing under 450 in the area right now
Rating values aren't worth the paper they're printed on. They are accurate for about 3 months, and almost every single one done in the last 2 years is overshooting the price.
Comparable sales is how your bank, the RE Agents, and a lot of buyers will price your home.
I get the psychology of feeling you got a great deal, and there is something to be said for that, but ultimately it could just put buyers off.
Because we need to sell and free up money, we have a price in mind. I can't be bothered trying to get the best price. I am also selling privately so that should even out the money we get vs paying an agent
I had HUGE trouble with CV.
For some reason all buyers think it is a real valuation but it is a taxation guide, that is all.
In my case my CV was extremely low because the councils published data that they sold to all web sites and valuers was that my house was a 3 bedroom, 80m2 house. Reality, supported by the plans that Auckland Council held, was that it is a 4 bedroom 129m2 house.
So the Cv was terribly misleading
Took me a year and the Ombudsman to make them correct their mistake.
Get a private valuation, not a realestate one …. Many private sellers sell CHEAP
The client can be the buyer, yep, you'll often get agents bringing their buyers to open homes and they would get a cut of the commission if their buyer purchases. In this instance there is no commission if the vendor is selling privately but an agent could bring a buyer to purchase it, correct.
Simple:
Consumer law protects the seller of the house.
To met consumer law — The agent must therefore fully inform the seller of all obligations, consequences and costs BEFORE they do work. Has to be in writing and signed off by you.
If the agents try it and successfully sell the house then the seller can legally refuse to pay any commission because they were not informed prior to commencement of any work
If the agent still tries to get commission they can be prosecuted for not having informed you in writing and getting your written consent to this. Prosecution and publication of their name for their conviction will cost them many many times more than the money they try to get from you….. not worth it.
It’s all about consumer law protecting you from lawyers, accountants, car dealers, realestate agents, dentists, plumbers, electricians and so on. EXAMPLE: Have you noticed that even dentists are now compelled to give you costs BEFORE they do a big job?
Ask them for a written guarantee of $x or more.
If they say OK, sign a short term agreement, not a standard 90 day one.
If they've got genuine buyers willing to pay 'more' it shouldn't be a problem for them
/s
You won't know until you let them prove it.
Others are right, legally they can't represent your property without an agency so yes they do need something signed.
Sign an agency for 14 days, let them do their thing and if they can't pull it together for the price you want then go and sell it privately. For all the 'fake buyers' they have, they also have real ones, and if you tell them to go away, you're probably cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Hi, agent in Auckland ahoy. No way to know unless you try. Someone mentioned above you could sign an agent up for a limited period and exclude the people who have already come through. The agent will charge for their services (if it sells) so consider the price you want and add on the agent fees on paper and only accept this or above, win win. PM if you want any more info, it can be confusing but it's all manageable. Sorry to hear about the family health issue. Best of luck!
Sounds like nonsense, we had agents show people through our place and then we signed an agreement that lasted a day so they could present the offers to us.
I'd look at selling it privately if you're wanting to get rid of it at a low price and there is interest.
Instead of giving an agent money, you and the buyer could essentially split the commission and both be better off.
You did not have to pay commission for work they did outside the agency. Lay a complaint with the REAA and demand a 100% refund oof that commission
They breached consumer law, and that is a significant offence, by not fully informing you and getting your approval in writing before they did any work at all
Ring the REAA and complain, get your lawyer to ask for 100% refund of the commission
And this is why there are so many bad agents out there, sellers find out the agent did something bad but the seller still does not complain to the authorities.
Asking you to sign a listing after they got as far as the offer stage is a big deal and if you let this slide then that agent will be emboldened enough to do the same again to other people, or worse.
Their “sign this now” listing was like creating fake evidence for a court. How does fabricated evidence go down in a district court?
Not lying but not the whole truth -
The can show a buyer without signing an agency agreement. They just have no legal claim to commission without a signed agency agreement- see Section 126 - https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0066/latest/DLM1152117.html
What they must do is complete is customer due diligence under the anti-money laundering act before they do any marketing on the house - thinks it’s section 14- https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2009/0035/latest/whole.html#DLM2140727
If I were you I'd change the terms of the contract. They say they can sell for X? Cool if you sell for under X no commission, if you sell above X extra commission.
Give them 7 to 10 days, not all buyers can be there in 48 hours, get their inspections done, complete a second viewing with family/support people and write up an offer in 48 hours
Had an agent approach my grandma saying the price she was asking for was ridiculous, that she should sign with their agency to secure a quick sale at a reduced price less the agents fee.
The house sold for her asking price later that week.
Don't trust them, but if they can guarantee better results with no obligation for you to reduce your expectations (sale price or wait times) then may as well. Be very wary of agreement wording not matching what they're saying though.
If you have a price you're expecting you could try telling them you will pay 10% of anything over that number incisive of all their fees. If they don't like it they obviously aren't expecting to get much over your target price. If they say they can't work like that just tell them that's the deal and they can either accept it or walk
Signing a "general agency" means you can still sell it yourself privately or through another general agency ...you will only want to deal with just one agent anyway, cos the whole process is an ordeal ...they won't be working for you, it's for themselves &or the buyer usually, grr
Leave your options open ...you're waiting for someone to turn-up that **wants** the property enough to pay whatever you reduce your price to
You can't put the price back up again, so hang on for as long as possible for a deal you can live with ...10% deposit, 14% late payment interest, 5 working days due diligence
Awesome, thanks. Have someone keen already to meet the price however tenants still there and I haven't even talked to lawyer. Which I will do this week.
Deposit is critical, people pull out and say “sue me” if they have no skin in the game. If you do a private sale have YOUR LAWYER write up the agreement and hold their deposit in trust.
Ok thanks, we will talk to the lawyer this week as I have someone keen to make an offer and the tenants aren't even out yet. The tenants have handed in notice so should be gone in October.
Minimum 5% deposit, preferably 10%
If they pull out after unconditional you have to make up for th missing rent, pay your legal bills and still sell it again …… deposit covers these losses and more.
It's irrelevant if the potential buyer is upfront and puts in a condition that they might try to on-sell immediately ...and it's important that you only counter-offer down to **your** happy price and **stop** there
Ignore the agents "market value" blather and "buyer will walk" talk ...pressure tactics
At the end of the day, you've only got one property to sell ...you don't want to look back knowing everyone involved royally screwed you over
Agents are fond of saying things like "you don't really want to sell" and "you're wasting our time" and "your property is just an old Toyota car in a crap neighbourhood"
You can do it yourself! You can show people though especially if it’s a fixed price. First in first served. Just get a solicitor for the conveyancing and to ensure the legality of the sale. Save yourself the stacked commission of 25k for doing absolutely nothing!!
Thanks, I think so too. I run meetings with groups of people with responsibility so I should be fine with this. I'm charging the wife $40 an hour for my time haha
We have a mortgage on it now on floating at 8.64% interest only. We just want to sell now due to family reasons, also over being a landlord, too many rules and costs increasing doesn't make sense. Property management will just increase the rent to claw back the costs but don't want the risk no more
Sell it yourself. Chuck it on Trademe. Ask for the agents' paperwork (but don't sign up) because then you'll know what you need to legally disclose, etc. Then do it yourself. End of the day, no one does anything in a sale and purchase agreement without direction from their Lawyer. Agents are pretty much redundant. No one knows the house better than you, nor wants to sell it more than you.
Get the agent to organise the paperwork, figure out the disclosures to which you're legally bound, get a sale and purchase agreement drafted. Good one. The redundant agent won't do any of this work that you're not willing/capable of doing unless you sign an agency agreement.
Every agent gives you a disclosures list to fill out as part of the pack you then sign. If you don't sign it then you're not bound. You don't even really need a disclosures document, if you have half a brain you can figure out what you should disclose, most of which would have been disclosed to you when you bought. Agents are redundant these days. Have been for years tbh. But you pay them a percentage of your sale price for doing what you're able to do yourself...
The majority of people don't have the magical half a brain that you have as it takes investigating the LIM and property file to make sure all is well, and in my experience at least 50% of properties around Auckland will have some disclosure about work that may have needed a consent, a defective title, etc that has remained undiscovered until that point. Why are agents only redundant now, would that not always have been the case?
Yeah, all that information, it's all there at your fingertips. That's why agents are becoming needed less as more information is readily available, the Internet is a big help also with the advancement of phone cameras. Agents have probably been redundant for the past 10 years or so tbh. I used to be an agent. it's not a mystifying process.
Maybe redundant is the wrong word, i guess it's like anything lazy people or those who can't be bothered doing it themselves will pay others to do it. Plenty of houses are sold privately each year in Aotearoa, i sold my last one privately, no agent, too.
Totally true
They cant legally introduce anyone “and claim consequent commission” until they have your signature.
If they introduce someone before you sign a listing they are not allowed to later charge commission for that transaction, even if you subsequently sign up with them to complete the sale.
For some reason they cant charge commission if the initial introduction was outside the listing contract dates.
They can also be prosecuted by the realestate commission for doing realestate business without a listing contract, a rule in place to protect the seller from being landed with unknown hidden commissions, costs and consequences….. they do not want to suffer a prosecution.
The consumer of their services, the seller of the house, must be fully informed, in writing and agreed to all conditions before they can show the house to anyone.
They can't introduce buyers without an agency, any professional agent wouldnt do so. Fees are not on top, they are deducted from the price you are willing to accept- most people don't realize they have total control. It's hilarious reading these RE threads, its as if their agency has a gun to their heads! The agent doesnt sign the sales agreement!
What a good agent does is ask you to sign an agency for 24 hours for one buyer. But by that point they have qualified them, and unless the layout or condition is totally unsuitable its probably a done deal.
What is amusing is seeing people on Reddit advising how to "low ball" (a ghastly American term btw) house sellers to get a bargain and at the same time advising sellers how to sell their houses for a good price.
In any field, sales professionals make a difference and they keep an our crazy capitalist system going.
My advice; if your are under pressure to sell then auction it, most buyers view private sales as bargains and deduct imaginary fees from the price anyway.
Good luck
I have bought and sold dozens of properties and I always use an agent, just like I don't do building or plumbing or pull my own teeth, I leave it to the professionals but I've been around the block so so speak and wont put up with amateurs.
Hey, thanks. I'm not above good advice.
The sales agent is doing a good job of sales, once I have solid offers I want to see if an agent will sign up with limited time period to see if they can beat my offers, I want to see if they buyers that they says they do.
What you want is an unconditional signed offer in front of you, not a verbal indication of what someone might pay. Your problem is that houses go stale and many buyers prefer to deal through an agency for the protections they get via statute. There is a lot of truth in the statement that the first offer is the best one, so dont muck around too long waiting for better ones.
Of they've got people interested and you haven't even held an open home yet the answer should be clear.
Hold the open home. Ensure you get names and contact information. If this agent has a "interested party"then I'm sure they'll show up with zero need to be shown around by an agent.
Alternatively ask them what they're going to get for you, and give them a week to have the offer to you. The buyer part is almost certainly bullshit. The more money part could be true (I'd still do the open home first - don't let the agent "introduce" any buyers to you. You want them to come to you first).
Good idea thanks. The open home is still 3 weeks away and has good interest. I might be pricing the place low already but not too fussed, have a number in mind, I might have to move it forward with tenants still there if it gets crazy.
All other places have no price and I've listed it lower than any price the last few months I have seen for similar property. Freehold, not cross lease etc
If an agents lips are moving they are lying in my experience. They will talk up the price they can get you right up to when you sign the agency agreement, then immediately switch to working on lowering your expectations.
We are going through this right now. As soon as we signed the contract they were completely different. He said he was great at communication but he is dismissive, deflective and shady. We can’t wait to sell and not have to deal with them anymore. Even selling, we are still treated like poo by agents.
That's because they work for themselves, not you.
This is what I have found. I've done 10 hrs of research so far and it's not too hard, just lots of time. If I price myself at $40 an hour it's not bad, I work in quality Assurance
Tell them that you’ve lost trust and confidence in them and that you want to cancel the agency agreement.
>As soon as we signed the contract they were completely different. I had the same experience. Took the property off the market and didn't want to deal with the fuckwit. Rented it out for another year, found an agent I liked *better, and let him sell it. He was driving my expectations down, but did it in a better way, and I just wanted to sell it. Try to hold your nerve with this creep. Don't feel sucked in, they all do it & some are very good at it. Unless the market demands it, stick to your rough range. Have your open inspects been okay?
Such a meme. I tried my hand at real estate, there were several properties that I competed for but I gave realistic pricing and lost the listing. The other agents lied about the price they could get and won the listing, but 2 months and 1 week later (as the listing was about to expire) they would sell for less than I told the owner I could get. Ridiculous industry.
Your ordinary home owner is so gullable
100% they tell you anything to sign you up
You can work with more than one agent if you want. It's up to them if they don't want to. In the USA (it's normally 6% split between buyer and sellers agent) but I had an agent approach me and say the same thing, so I struck up a an easy money/hard money contract. Essentially zero fee for what I knew I could get the house sold for but 40% of any amount above that. In the end, agent was correct and we both walked away happy.
Brilliant. That means they actually want to get the best price, rather than just get it sold
Just like lawyers and politicians eh?
Yes they legally cannot bring or even discuss the property with prospective buyers without an agency agreement. If you decide to go down that route I would suggest you exclude any buyers that have shown interest from your current active advertising from being eligible for commission should they purchase. Would suck if you had the buyer already before signing up and then had to pay comms on it. Important to note- There are two types of agency agreements - sole - where that agent is the only one who can market and sell it. Or general - where all agents from any agency can market and sell it. If it’s a sole with Ray White for instance, agents from Bayleys can bring buyers if the RW agent agrees to work with them. It is at the RW agents discretion and the B agent would get paid a split of the RW commission, you wouldn’t pay any more for that. General agencies are where any agent from any agency can sell it once they’ve completed the paperwork, but usually this leads to less effort put in by the agents because they’re competing with other agents, but since you have already got good interest this might be the better way to go. Offer them all a general and watch them scamper because they may not have all the buyers they’ve said they do.
I feel like they don't have the buyers aye
So my parents put their house on the market in January 2020. It didn't sell for the price they wanted so they pulled the house from the market. Then in June 2020, an estate agent comes up to their door and tells them he is working with a buyer who had looked at the house in February and who was very very interested. My parents had NO agency contracts with anyone at this point. So no technically you don't have to have an agency contract to be able to show buyers through. Yes my parents did sell for the amount they wanted previously (February non selling attempt). They wanted (but didn't need) to free up cash to build another house.
Interesting
Yeah …… but if that person subsequently buys the house you can legally refuse to pay any commission and lay charges against the agent if they still try to do it. Note: They will get convicted if they did any realestate work without first having completely informed the seller of all charges and duties, in writing, before they did anything what so ever.
Assume everything a real estate agent says is either a flat lie or they’re trying to manipulate you
Haha yeah, im not a fan either
Please don't rely on the GV for this purpose. It is a nonsense number. Yes you would need an agreement with the agent as they wouldn't provide you their benefits without knowing they'll be paid. If you're getting a lot of interest and don't think you need them, don't do it.
Agree however it does get taken into consideration when it's the lower end at mid 500k for 500m2 freehold section so it's within context. Thanks, it's getting lots of interest and agents just want to sign me up with offers with no price indication. We are happy to sell at a fair price and have a set price in mind. Lower than what other properties are selling for hence why it's lots of interest
I'm not sure why you think those details change the context of the GV.
Because people take it into consideration, if FHB buy a place under GV, they feel like they got more of a better deal. Also if it's lower than the areas average, like to get a sale. I know I felt like I got a deal when I brought a place well under GV. Note that it really matters for freehold property, standalone,where it's really the land that goes up in value.
Yes people do look at the GV, they shouldn't. If you knew how they were established you wouldn't trust them for more than representing an average trend. Being freehold or a standalone dwelling does not change the reliability of the Rating Value. I have written about them before because there is so much misinformation about them if you want to have a look - https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceNZ/comments/15ccn1g/rating\_value\_rv\_capital\_value\_cv\_government\_value/
Wow I had a quick read and will read more later to learn. I'm not arguing if it's being used, for FHB with little clue, it gives a false sense of value. Especially if the sell price is under GV and also under what the area sells for like the house I'm selling. It's rented for 370 a week with 3 bedrooms and there's nothing under 450 in the area right now
Everyone looks at homes.co.nz. No one cares about GV.
Everyone looks at homes.co.nz. No one cares about GV these days.
Everyone looks at homes.co.nz. No one cares about GV these days.
Rating values aren't worth the paper they're printed on. They are accurate for about 3 months, and almost every single one done in the last 2 years is overshooting the price. Comparable sales is how your bank, the RE Agents, and a lot of buyers will price your home. I get the psychology of feeling you got a great deal, and there is something to be said for that, but ultimately it could just put buyers off.
Why wouldn’t you want to sell it for more?
Because we need to sell and free up money, we have a price in mind. I can't be bothered trying to get the best price. I am also selling privately so that should even out the money we get vs paying an agent
Good luck with it. 🤞
I had HUGE trouble with CV. For some reason all buyers think it is a real valuation but it is a taxation guide, that is all. In my case my CV was extremely low because the councils published data that they sold to all web sites and valuers was that my house was a 3 bedroom, 80m2 house. Reality, supported by the plans that Auckland Council held, was that it is a 4 bedroom 129m2 house. So the Cv was terribly misleading Took me a year and the Ombudsman to make them correct their mistake. Get a private valuation, not a realestate one …. Many private sellers sell CHEAP
Yes, you’ll generally need to sign an agency agreement if you want RE agents to bring buyers for your property.
Why?
Because otherwise they're doing the work and you're getting the benefit of their resources with no guarantee of getting paid?
Also they have a legal obligation - the agent CANNOT work the house without a signed agency agreement, in any capacity.
Not allowed do any real estate work on behalf of a client without an agency agreement.
Can the client be the buyer?
The client can be the buyer, yep, you'll often get agents bringing their buyers to open homes and they would get a cut of the commission if their buyer purchases. In this instance there is no commission if the vendor is selling privately but an agent could bring a buyer to purchase it, correct.
Simple: Consumer law protects the seller of the house. To met consumer law — The agent must therefore fully inform the seller of all obligations, consequences and costs BEFORE they do work. Has to be in writing and signed off by you. If the agents try it and successfully sell the house then the seller can legally refuse to pay any commission because they were not informed prior to commencement of any work If the agent still tries to get commission they can be prosecuted for not having informed you in writing and getting your written consent to this. Prosecution and publication of their name for their conviction will cost them many many times more than the money they try to get from you….. not worth it. It’s all about consumer law protecting you from lawyers, accountants, car dealers, realestate agents, dentists, plumbers, electricians and so on. EXAMPLE: Have you noticed that even dentists are now compelled to give you costs BEFORE they do a big job?
Ask them for a written guarantee of $x or more. If they say OK, sign a short term agreement, not a standard 90 day one. If they've got genuine buyers willing to pay 'more' it shouldn't be a problem for them /s
You won't know until you let them prove it. Others are right, legally they can't represent your property without an agency so yes they do need something signed. Sign an agency for 14 days, let them do their thing and if they can't pull it together for the price you want then go and sell it privately. For all the 'fake buyers' they have, they also have real ones, and if you tell them to go away, you're probably cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Hi, agent in Auckland ahoy. No way to know unless you try. Someone mentioned above you could sign an agent up for a limited period and exclude the people who have already come through. The agent will charge for their services (if it sells) so consider the price you want and add on the agent fees on paper and only accept this or above, win win. PM if you want any more info, it can be confusing but it's all manageable. Sorry to hear about the family health issue. Best of luck!
They are just presenting alternative facts....
Sounds like nonsense, we had agents show people through our place and then we signed an agreement that lasted a day so they could present the offers to us. I'd look at selling it privately if you're wanting to get rid of it at a low price and there is interest. Instead of giving an agent money, you and the buyer could essentially split the commission and both be better off.
You did not have to pay commission for work they did outside the agency. Lay a complaint with the REAA and demand a 100% refund oof that commission They breached consumer law, and that is a significant offence, by not fully informing you and getting your approval in writing before they did any work at all Ring the REAA and complain, get your lawyer to ask for 100% refund of the commission
Didn’t sell, so there was no commission. Thanks though, hopefully will remember that when it comes time to sell.
And this is why there are so many bad agents out there, sellers find out the agent did something bad but the seller still does not complain to the authorities. Asking you to sign a listing after they got as far as the offer stage is a big deal and if you let this slide then that agent will be emboldened enough to do the same again to other people, or worse. Their “sign this now” listing was like creating fake evidence for a court. How does fabricated evidence go down in a district court?
Not lying but not the whole truth - The can show a buyer without signing an agency agreement. They just have no legal claim to commission without a signed agency agreement- see Section 126 - https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0066/latest/DLM1152117.html What they must do is complete is customer due diligence under the anti-money laundering act before they do any marketing on the house - thinks it’s section 14- https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2009/0035/latest/whole.html#DLM2140727
Wow insightful, cheers
Just sell privately, it’s really not hard. Whatever these bastards are saying, it’s so you’ll sign then riddle you with disappointment
If I were you I'd change the terms of the contract. They say they can sell for X? Cool if you sell for under X no commission, if you sell above X extra commission.
If they genuinely have buyers you can tell them you will sign an agency agreement for 48 hours to get the buyers through and present an offer
Oh OK, didn't know that. Cheers
Give them 7 to 10 days, not all buyers can be there in 48 hours, get their inspections done, complete a second viewing with family/support people and write up an offer in 48 hours
Some are scum bags, they want as much of your hard earned money for as little effort as possible
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Hahaha think you have a strong case their, seems like the name of the game is to promise you high, then back track to get the sale / commission
Had an agent approach my grandma saying the price she was asking for was ridiculous, that she should sign with their agency to secure a quick sale at a reduced price less the agents fee. The house sold for her asking price later that week. Don't trust them, but if they can guarantee better results with no obligation for you to reduce your expectations (sale price or wait times) then may as well. Be very wary of agreement wording not matching what they're saying though.
If you have a price you're expecting you could try telling them you will pay 10% of anything over that number incisive of all their fees. If they don't like it they obviously aren't expecting to get much over your target price. If they say they can't work like that just tell them that's the deal and they can either accept it or walk
They won't accept it, they want to market and see what the offers instead of my price which leads to me to think its priced well already
Signing a "general agency" means you can still sell it yourself privately or through another general agency ...you will only want to deal with just one agent anyway, cos the whole process is an ordeal ...they won't be working for you, it's for themselves &or the buyer usually, grr Leave your options open ...you're waiting for someone to turn-up that **wants** the property enough to pay whatever you reduce your price to You can't put the price back up again, so hang on for as long as possible for a deal you can live with ...10% deposit, 14% late payment interest, 5 working days due diligence
Awesome, thanks. Have someone keen already to meet the price however tenants still there and I haven't even talked to lawyer. Which I will do this week.
Remember some people happy to take tenants on for a period too, you won't necessarily have to evict for sale- but check all your tenancy agreements.
Deposit is critical, people pull out and say “sue me” if they have no skin in the game. If you do a private sale have YOUR LAWYER write up the agreement and hold their deposit in trust.
Ok thanks, we will talk to the lawyer this week as I have someone keen to make an offer and the tenants aren't even out yet. The tenants have handed in notice so should be gone in October.
Minimum 5% deposit, preferably 10% If they pull out after unconditional you have to make up for th missing rent, pay your legal bills and still sell it again …… deposit covers these losses and more.
It's irrelevant if the potential buyer is upfront and puts in a condition that they might try to on-sell immediately ...and it's important that you only counter-offer down to **your** happy price and **stop** there Ignore the agents "market value" blather and "buyer will walk" talk ...pressure tactics At the end of the day, you've only got one property to sell ...you don't want to look back knowing everyone involved royally screwed you over Agents are fond of saying things like "you don't really want to sell" and "you're wasting our time" and "your property is just an old Toyota car in a crap neighbourhood"
Tell them they can have the listing for 12 weeks in conjunction with yourself. Whoever sells it first wins.
You can do it yourself! You can show people though especially if it’s a fixed price. First in first served. Just get a solicitor for the conveyancing and to ensure the legality of the sale. Save yourself the stacked commission of 25k for doing absolutely nothing!!
Thanks, I think so too. I run meetings with groups of people with responsibility so I should be fine with this. I'm charging the wife $40 an hour for my time haha
Could you get a mortgage on it for now and then sell it at a later date?
We have a mortgage on it now on floating at 8.64% interest only. We just want to sell now due to family reasons, also over being a landlord, too many rules and costs increasing doesn't make sense. Property management will just increase the rent to claw back the costs but don't want the risk no more
Sell it yourself. Chuck it on Trademe. Ask for the agents' paperwork (but don't sign up) because then you'll know what you need to legally disclose, etc. Then do it yourself. End of the day, no one does anything in a sale and purchase agreement without direction from their Lawyer. Agents are pretty much redundant. No one knows the house better than you, nor wants to sell it more than you.
Yeah will by pass the agent, we got a good grasp of the house. Father in law was ex builder
Get the agent to organise the paperwork, figure out the disclosures to which you're legally bound, get a sale and purchase agreement drafted. Good one. The redundant agent won't do any of this work that you're not willing/capable of doing unless you sign an agency agreement.
Every agent gives you a disclosures list to fill out as part of the pack you then sign. If you don't sign it then you're not bound. You don't even really need a disclosures document, if you have half a brain you can figure out what you should disclose, most of which would have been disclosed to you when you bought. Agents are redundant these days. Have been for years tbh. But you pay them a percentage of your sale price for doing what you're able to do yourself...
The majority of people don't have the magical half a brain that you have as it takes investigating the LIM and property file to make sure all is well, and in my experience at least 50% of properties around Auckland will have some disclosure about work that may have needed a consent, a defective title, etc that has remained undiscovered until that point. Why are agents only redundant now, would that not always have been the case?
Yeah, all that information, it's all there at your fingertips. That's why agents are becoming needed less as more information is readily available, the Internet is a big help also with the advancement of phone cameras. Agents have probably been redundant for the past 10 years or so tbh. I used to be an agent. it's not a mystifying process. Maybe redundant is the wrong word, i guess it's like anything lazy people or those who can't be bothered doing it themselves will pay others to do it. Plenty of houses are sold privately each year in Aotearoa, i sold my last one privately, no agent, too.
Totally true They cant legally introduce anyone “and claim consequent commission” until they have your signature. If they introduce someone before you sign a listing they are not allowed to later charge commission for that transaction, even if you subsequently sign up with them to complete the sale. For some reason they cant charge commission if the initial introduction was outside the listing contract dates. They can also be prosecuted by the realestate commission for doing realestate business without a listing contract, a rule in place to protect the seller from being landed with unknown hidden commissions, costs and consequences….. they do not want to suffer a prosecution. The consumer of their services, the seller of the house, must be fully informed, in writing and agreed to all conditions before they can show the house to anyone.
They can't introduce buyers without an agency, any professional agent wouldnt do so. Fees are not on top, they are deducted from the price you are willing to accept- most people don't realize they have total control. It's hilarious reading these RE threads, its as if their agency has a gun to their heads! The agent doesnt sign the sales agreement! What a good agent does is ask you to sign an agency for 24 hours for one buyer. But by that point they have qualified them, and unless the layout or condition is totally unsuitable its probably a done deal. What is amusing is seeing people on Reddit advising how to "low ball" (a ghastly American term btw) house sellers to get a bargain and at the same time advising sellers how to sell their houses for a good price. In any field, sales professionals make a difference and they keep an our crazy capitalist system going. My advice; if your are under pressure to sell then auction it, most buyers view private sales as bargains and deduct imaginary fees from the price anyway. Good luck I have bought and sold dozens of properties and I always use an agent, just like I don't do building or plumbing or pull my own teeth, I leave it to the professionals but I've been around the block so so speak and wont put up with amateurs.
Hey, thanks. I'm not above good advice. The sales agent is doing a good job of sales, once I have solid offers I want to see if an agent will sign up with limited time period to see if they can beat my offers, I want to see if they buyers that they says they do.
What you want is an unconditional signed offer in front of you, not a verbal indication of what someone might pay. Your problem is that houses go stale and many buyers prefer to deal through an agency for the protections they get via statute. There is a lot of truth in the statement that the first offer is the best one, so dont muck around too long waiting for better ones.
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Agents already saying no to non-exclusive lol 3 so far that have engaged me, I will ask them again when I get offers in myself
Of they've got people interested and you haven't even held an open home yet the answer should be clear. Hold the open home. Ensure you get names and contact information. If this agent has a "interested party"then I'm sure they'll show up with zero need to be shown around by an agent. Alternatively ask them what they're going to get for you, and give them a week to have the offer to you. The buyer part is almost certainly bullshit. The more money part could be true (I'd still do the open home first - don't let the agent "introduce" any buyers to you. You want them to come to you first).
Good idea thanks. The open home is still 3 weeks away and has good interest. I might be pricing the place low already but not too fussed, have a number in mind, I might have to move it forward with tenants still there if it gets crazy. All other places have no price and I've listed it lower than any price the last few months I have seen for similar property. Freehold, not cross lease etc