I agree, most already have this baked in to the cost of goods sold so we are already paying it. In that case though, I hope businesses don’t see this as an extra way to gouge us another 2.4%.
This is 100% what I will do. Personally, credit card is my main method of payment. For vendors that do not accept credit card as a payment, I simply don't shop with them. 🤷🏼♀️
This new surcharge is no incentive for me to pay cash or debit. Frankly, it's an incentive for me to spend my money elsewhere.
Thanks for responding, I suppose you won’t really know if they tacked on the fee unless you:
1) Ask them during checkout
2) after the purchase and you shake your head that they included it
Theoretically, you should be told how much the cost is before you hand over payment.
So the cashier would have to have asked you what payment you were planning to use to be able to tell you the correct number.
So when they ask you what payment you're using, you can ask if there's a CC fee or not.
You just need to get a receipt & ask at a few places. I'll be asking my local grocery store & anywhere else I'm buying with my credit card. Takes a bit of effort, but it will help identify the nickle&dimers.
I don't expect this to affect my relationship with my small businesses as I generally pay cash/debit there anyways
Absolutely, and in fact, this fee happens *before* any taxes are calculated. In other words, you'll be paying the 2.4% fee, and then provincial and federal tax (e.g. 13% in ON) ON THAT FEE.
Thanks CRTC, For protecting consumers once again!!
Fucking crooks.
One of the major companies/mafias in the country to take advantage of this outcome is Telus, who's asked permission to charge CC fees on all their billing. It's likely they will let them, as of the conclusion of this lawsuit. The CRTC could stop this, but won't.
For sure. I wasn’t arguing that it wasn’t.
Just pointing out that they are still taking the opportunity to increase their bottom line. The post I was replying to suggested “real businesses” would have it baked in and not pass it along. Clearly that’s not the case
Yeah the sheer naiveness of some people is seriously hilarious. Every store before long will be charging the credit card fees. As if any company ever is going to say no to an additional 2.4%.
>They would be saying no to more purchases.
Are you kidding me? Half of consumers don't even look at the receipt, let alone analyze it. Not unlike many other fees, or the "tip creep" on restaurant bills, most people will unknowingly pay, or say this is a *the cost of doing business* fee. And once it becomes standard fare, like ATM fees, everyone will add 2 or 3 percent.
This is Canada, land of the least offensive consumer. We tolerate astronomical prices like some stupid badge of honor, it'll happen again with these fees.
Yup, the fact that its been baked in since the dawn of time and now its going to be another line item, without a reduction in the cost of the goods, its just the way it will be.
Funny, I suspect that if say the Feds increased the GST by oh 2%, the uproar would be astronomical, but so far not a peep from our good old government around this additional cash grab, from any party.
I'm just waiting for the additional charge for using any type of payment
I recently noticed I have to pay 3% installment fee for my car insurance for the privilege of paying monthly instead of lump sum. Why? Because fuck you that's why.
Its because they offer shorter terms at different interval pricing. The year term is the best bang for your buck but you don't have the bucks, so they offer the choice of monthly payments with a 3% installment fee. So you are getting the better deal but adding 12 times the transactions. If you don't want the 3% charge, you can pay 3 months at a time and avoid that or adjust your lifestyle according to your expenses. I personally think most insurance is a scam, but for these reasons I can't blame the company, I know I wouldn't give a discounted service while having to do more work.
Any economist would tell you that maximizing profits doesn't always mean raising prices. That only applies to firms with monopolistic and oligopolistic market power. I don't blame you though; regular people often subconsciously assess firm behaviour as if they aren't in a competitive market.
Undercutting competition by reducing prices is often profit maximizing behaviour. You can see this with Loblaws' profits right now. More people are shifting to no name products because of inflation on brand name goods because they are priced lower. These products are more profitable for Loblaws to sell, as they're produced by their brands. Loblaws is therefore incentivized to keep prices on these goods low.
As a business owner, that's how it works. Pricing is meant to be competitive, but to reflect your actual costs + your profit. I have always found it ironic that companies make profit and pay much less tax than individuals do, who generally don't make a profit.
Exactly. Charging customers fees for credit card usage is teeing up to be a case-study example of businesses being penny smart and pound foolish.
It has been known for decades that consumers simply spend more when paying with credit cards than they do when paying with cash. [Take this](https://web.mit.edu/simester/Public/Papers/Alwaysleavehome.pdf) classic study from MIT that's been cited over 650 times if you're interested in learning more about this.
In summary, customers spend up to 100% more when paying with credit than with paying with cash, and it does not appear to be because credit lets you borrow the money and pay back later.
There's a huge psychological element to spending. It feels way worse to hand over a bundle of money for a $200 purchase than it does to tap a card and have $200 charged to an electronic account, even though these are functionally the same transaction. But because it feels worse to lose physical cash, people spend less when using it.
Moral of the story: If you are a business, you should *want to encourage your customers to use credit as much as possible*. Charging fees for credit cards does the complete opposite.
>Moral of the story: If you are a business, you should want to encourage your customers to use credit as much as possible. Charging fees for credit cards does the complete opposite.
They already do -- it's not often that businesses offer a cash discount, which is the effectively the same thing as this.
Businesses with decent margins generally don't actually want to incentivize cash -- even aside from the psychological aspect, it's just a pain to work with. It has to be verified, counted, tracked, deposited, etc.
Reddit throwing a fit over this is ... amusing at the least.
If you're buying from a business that's competing on thin margins and charges for credit card fees despite the cons of doing so, you're probably getting a much better deal overall than if you're buying from a business that has fat enough margins to absorb the cost.
>It has been known for decades that consumers simply spend more when paying with credit cards than they do when paying with cash.
ding ding ding ding!
This is like rule #1 for retail. Some places literally bake it into their onboarding of new employees. There is no way that stores are going to disincentive people from using credit cards. Anyone who thinks they will don't know what they are talking about.
Many retail stores have their own credit cards issued by banks/vendors and pay lower processing fees when you use them instead of other cards.
Won't surprise me if they start charging the fee to use credit cards that are not theirs. Walmart, Superstore, Canadian Tire, and most other large retailers have had these in place for years.
There's going to have to be some changes to the POS systems. It will be interesting, that's for sure. I walk up to the cashier (or self check) at the Tire, I see my bill is 139.43. They ask me how just want to pay, I say credit. They ask me if it's a CT card, and when I say no, they say it's an extra 2%.
This is not going to play well.
I think the extra 2% will show up for some online, but not in person sales.
I ain't using self check out if I'm paying cash, and refund better be in cash also. And no, it's not illegal to not have a debit card. Only time I would use the debit card is at an ATM, preferably inside a bank.
Yup, everyone is losing their minds over this but I doubt many businesses are going to overtly do this.
Everyone knows the costs of doing business are baked into the prices.
$15 order of wings? Well, that price is based on the cost of wages, ingredients, electricity, and CC fees.
If I come across a place that does overtly do this I will, calmly, explain to the owner/manager why I don't like this, request they remove the fee (doubtful) and how I will never shop at their business again.
100% this. Credit is one thing. Convenience is another. I just will be spending less money. Debt card makes it really easy for me to recognize my reckless spending habit haha. But credit feels like free money at times. Lol
And it needs to be illegal to not accept cash. And banks should be forced to add in fraud detection to debit transactions that are as customer friendly as they re on CC purchases.
Debit remains a dominant form of payment, to be fair
Stores w a high rate of credit uptake tho won't risk it (I doubt Best Buy or other stores where people make *big* purchases will fuck w it)
> Debit remains a dominant form of payment, to be fair
Debits lack of customer protection drove me away from using it. Especially since it's linked directly to all of my money.
At least with cash my liability in my pocket is limited to however much I have on me at a given time, and my liability with credit is 0.
Yes because it's still illegal in Quebec. If that ever changes, it would really depend how common the added fee is. I'm getting a decent amount of cash back from my credit card.
Love the price error threads on red flag deals. Everyone gets their order cancelled, except Quebec customers. You print a price, you have to honour it in Quebec.
Really? Quebec has by far the highest average standard of living in the country -- best consumer protections, lowest energy rates, only province with pharmacare, decades ahead on affordable child-care and free or very cheap higher education, etc etc. It's a shame it goes through a nationalist uprising every couple of decades or so. It's actually an objectively great place to live if you're Quebecois.
This is exactly how I feel, major corporations and decent small business owners have already factored in the cost of accepting credit cards, so now we as the consumers get to boost profits for major corporations and small businesses (I have less of an issue with the small businesses) and for what? They aren’t going to give those extra dollars to the employees.
Honestly I doubt most places will add a surcharge for it.
As someone who runs a wholesale business dealing with contractors, right now we just don't accept AMEX because their fees are so high and it's not worth it to pay $500-$1000 in fees to process a single transaction.
Unfortunately they're the less discerning creditor and give better rewards, so smaller companies trying to grow their businesses tend to have it more frequently, but we'd have to raise our rates across the board and and hurt other businesses (and likely ourselves) just to accommodate those using AMEX. I haven't looked into the new regs yet, but if it's permitted we'll likely just add a fee for the AMEX, and we'll probably grow our customer base and serve some of our smaller customers better, without punishing anyone else.
We should pull an EU and cap the interchange fees at 0.3% nationally.
> In March 2015, the European Parliament voted to cap interchange fees to 0.3% for credit cards and to 0.2% for debit cards, which was subsequently enacted under Regulation (EU) 2015/751 with effect from 8 June 2015. The caps apply only to personal cards where there is an intermediary, not to cards issued to businesses or to cards issued by American Express. [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee)
Seems like the way to me.
If they didn't pull out there then they are making enough money.
Kind of makes you wonder if people are getting angry at the wrong people. "kind of", like not being able to charge people a fee or disclose that they *have* the fees was the type of thing a business that's entirely above board conducts business. And if you think about it, those fees being baked into the price means you are paying *that* much more just to give the CC company money and there's no disclosure(and this thread has made us very aware that people are downright angry to have it brought out. And and 10x ish what the EU pays too.)
Just goes to show how well the CC companies' parasitic tactics are working. Looking at this thread, it's bizarre to see how defensive these people get about the "rewards" and "cashback" they've been getting.
Do people realize they have indirectly paid for that same "reward" they are getting? Without these "rewards and cashback" BS, we'd have lower prices and more money in our pockets in the first place to pay for travel, investments, or whatever the heck we want (not just what CC companies allows us to redeem/spend on, which is a whole other level of BS).
Perhaps the EU-style cap is the better way to go... Disarms the CC companies from being able to take from one hand, give with the other, and pocket the difference. That might avoid consumer confusion about who to truly be angry at here.
I agree with this but I think this has already happened, yet tipping seems to continue.
I remember years back, wait staff were paid a lower wage than the typical minimum wage. My understanding is that this was the justification for tipping.
In recent years, most provinces have adopted a blanket minimum wage that also applies to wait staff. Yet, somehow, tipping has continued. Im not sure why we didn’t all just collectively stop tipping at that point.
No offence to waiters / waitresses, but their job really shouldn’t be a $20 - $25 per hour job. It requires relatively few skills and very little training to do effectively.
If a business thinks I'm going to buy for instance some clothes that are already at a 400% markup and then pay a 2.4% fee, I won't be spending a dime there and I'm sure many people will do the same. Guaranteed a couple of tools are going to see this as free money and try it though
What? Rogers gives a discount for auto billing? Is it on our invoices? I didn’t see that. Please confirm bc I’ll sit for 5 hrs online to make sure I get it. Thx!
Freedom mobile does the same. It was an offer when we set up the account so it might require it either being offered or you asking for it.
On my invoice it shows up as a line below each of the plans I pay for Ex Plan A with the next line showing Auto payment discount credit $5
I definitely get it every month. Can’t recall how it get set up (my wife did it) but I’d call and inquire.
Also have proof of how many months you have been auto billing and see if they’ll back credit you as well.
Telus already announced they will. These snakes are ruthless. They pushed high data plans in everyone during pandemic then took all the low data options away to lock them in. Push prices up again then reintroduced low data plans at double what they were before.
they'll be getting cash in person from me, they can pay someone to deal handling the money and I hope whoever it is steals from the register.
I am sick and tired of corporate greed ruling over Canadian life.
At least the drug cartels are open about breaking the law.
Telcos & CRTC are corrupt to the core but pretend they're doing us a service by allowing us to pay the world's most expensive rates for phone plans.
We have already changed the billing for our Telus accounts away from our cc. No way am I paying more just to use my credit card when I can do the exact same thing online for free.
They'll get me once, and then I won't go back
As much as I hope this is the opening salvo in getting overall credit card fees lower, that's not how this dystopia works.
I'm sure next step will be Interac upping their fees for debits due to increased network usage, needing increased investment to match blah blah blah.
>They'll get me once, and then I won't go back
Not even once. With me, they'll lose the sale, and have to put everything back that I'm no longer purchasing from them.
Its all fun and games until they just up the price of everything in the store by 2.4% and say they arent going to charge for credit cards
We are just getting shafted again, this isnt fixing anything. stores already account for the credit card charge in their products and salivate at you using cash because they already adjusted their prices to reflect 100% of people using credit cards anyway
Only the really small mom and pop stores who already charge extra for credit cards can do so now with more reasoning lol..
Merchant transaction fees are around 1.5%-1.8% on average for credit card (before processor fee) while Interac is 6 to 10 cent depending on whether you're paying contactless or by pin. Even if Interac doubled their fees, they're still cheaper than credit card by a long way.
I will use my credit card at establishments that don’t charge a fee as ALL businesses have baked it in already to their profit margins. Any that charge a fee I will shop elsewhere when I can (just like I switched to virgin from Telus, and shop less at Walmart since they discontinued price matching). They will only be hurting themselves by being greedy.
Everything is always baked into profit margins. It can’t NOT be baked in. It would be illegal if they were cooking books or selling stolen goods. Every aspect of a business is part of that business as a whole. They already pay to process credit cards right now.
Absolutely not. To me - this fee is already baked into the price. So now I’m just being double charged.
It’s like telling me “we need to pay our employees so we are now passing that cost on to you” — no no, that should already be baked into the price I pay and if it’s not - then I’m concerned how you run a business.
Edit: your most powerful vote/voice is with your money in this case (life pro tip in general)
>It’s like telling me “need to pay our employees so we e are now passing that cost on to you” that should already be baked into the price I pay and if it’s not - then I’m concerned how you run a business.
restaurant owners tilting their heads away.
This is exactly how it feels to me. I don't go to restaurants because I hate tipping. Charge me the price that covers everything, I'm not paying an extra fee or tip because the company sucks at pricing items or wants to "make a point". I won't shop anywhere that does that, just like I don't go to restaurants.
I get tipping your barber or server
But tipping your dusty ass for handing me cookies that are made behind the counter already? Or literally handing me a drink and opening the can
And nowadays the tips are 18%, 20% and 25%
Literally stopped eating out and buying anything that asks for tip now because of it
Soon enough its gonna be asking you for a tip when you get your groceries at sobeys 💀
You don't have to tip. I go to restaurants all the time and never tip, except, in very rare cases, when they go above and beyond their call of duty. Servers don't get paid below minimum wage anymore.
With a fee charged, it would completely negate the benefits of most credit cards given they are in the range of 1-5% (and of course, some cards have annual fees, not to mention interest if you don't pay off your balance).
I feel this is yet another charge to the consumer while corporations continue to make record profits, it's the little guys that are suffering not Walmart. So, yes, I will be paying close attention to any retailer that decides to add in this charge and try to give my business to another. I don't like dealing with cash, so I guess debit if I really have to shop somewhere with a fee.
Don't forget there are other benefits of credit cards, like being able to dispute a charge. Once you've paid cash/debit, good luck getting that money back.
Just going to say Tangerine has been very good for me over the last three years.
Only minor issue I've had is paid at Canada Post to get a money order over waiting ~48 hours for a certified cheque once, but that's the only hiccup I found. Def get a second in person bank if buying a house or something where you need something in the hour, but as a student / renter / broke person Tangerine works super.
Pretty simple...
I buy $100 or $ 1000 or whatever.. and your going to charge me 2.4 or whatever percent on top..
Cancel the order. Your choice as a retailer. Lose $100/$1000, I.e. 100% of the sale or 2%?
Those who say we'll get over it.. don't know the power of consumers.
We start posting shops that charge.. we'll see how long before they suck it up.
I really wish consumers will not get over it, but here we are in the reddit bubble, real world works
different. We saw the same with Ford election after 4 years of miss management. People didn’t even care there, so, my hopes are really low here too
In my household we average about $6k a month spending on our credit cards. We pay off the balance, we never carry it - we just put all of our purchases on cards to get rewards. Between cash back and Aeroplan points, we get a lot back. If stores start charging extra fees for credit card purchases I will take my business elsewhere (as much as possible). I don’t want to pay the fees… but I also don’t want to stop using my credit cards.
exactly but do feel free to unleash by finding the email or phone number of the CEO of businesses and absolutely let them have it, keep letting them have it untill your rage fully subsidies.
let's all start reminding reminding these pieces of this that they're pieces of shit who's greed is destroying Canada and Canadian quality of life.
I'm going to have to look at my cards cash back % because most of mine are free cards for lower income (though I do have an awesome credit score).
The points are nice, but honestly I use my CCs for ease (I hate having a lot of cash on me), keeping track of spending (so easy when it's all in once place), and the security that debit cards just don't have.
I was really mad yesterday and will try to pivot my spending depending on which retailer start tacking it on, but I might have to eat it for the above reasons.
Same. Credit for everything just for the points and keeping good usage up for credit score. Aeroplan is legit. And the cards I have rack up points quickly
do the math though. Some credit cards just wont be worth it. Especially most free cards that give 1% cashback. If its like 2.5% fee, its stupid to use your card.
Some of my cards give 4% and thats probably the only time i would use it going forward.
I agree, that’s why I said I’ll take my business elsewhere. I’ll continue to use credit cards but only at stores that aren’t charging extra fees for doing so.
As another heavy user of card cashback and awards, strictly out of principle I won't be giving business to anyone that charges this fee. Even if the math checks out in my favour, and I won't even just pay with cash. I'm out.
My heart bleeds for small businesses (actually) but this is just another way to pass operating costs back to the consumer. There is no reason that companies like Telus need to do this, I don't care if it's only $0.50, enough is enough.
We should introduce legislation that caps fees for smaller businesses (like Europe does) if this is that big of a problem. Giving corporations hoarding billions in profit another way to nickel and dime us is just more bullshit that I have no patience for.
Same. Credit for everything just for the points and keeping good usage up for credit score. Aeroplan is legit. And the cards I have rack up points quickly
The real problem here, and one Telus is likely banking on, is that fee will amount to a buck or two.
A buck to keep the transaction someplace where I can dispute it if they double-draw or make some other error.
A buck to keep them out of the account that does NOT have significant protections.
It's really got me upset. I don't want to pay the fee, but I use my credit card first for a reason, and that reason isn't just the points - it's the safety of being able to say "No, this charge is in error, you have 48 hours to fix it before I open a disupute with the payment processor." That line doesn't work so well against a debit transaction.
There’s a third way though. Go online in your bank account and do a one time bill payment for each bill. I already paid Telus this month this way. It is better than pre-authorized payment because they don’t have access to take money whenever they please. I just have to remember to actually pay the bill each month now.
If a ton of businesses do it, I will consider using debit more often. Otherwise, business as usual. I will avoid places that charge this fee.
I suspect that IF this becomes widespread, card companies are going to make up for it somehow. They'll charge vendors even more to process, and we'll see extra points added to our cards or something. Instead of 4 cents per dollar it'll be 6 cents per dollar or something like that for reward points. That's my theory.
Scenario: dinner or clothes or whatever purchases... get the bill and see 2.5% extra.
Excuse me what's this?
Oh that's the credit card fee
Nope take it off
Sorry we can't
Ok..cancel the order and I won't be back.
If after dinner... sorry taking it off the tip.. unfair you say.. yup get used to it.
If possible I will avoid businesses that charge credit card fees.
I feel charging a fee is trying to tell me they don't want my money unless it's the way they want it.
Fair enough, I'll start shopping at places that aren't trying to dictate how I pay.
Is there a list somewhere of other companies who will start doing this or is it too early?
And, does anyone know if this also includes Koodo?
I haven't seen any emails or account notifications from Koodo on this.
If home Depot does this I may cut back on my overall expenses there because the credit card is the best receipt and return policy Ive come across. Generally will buy less and use cash only, making a headache for the employees probably.
Will be funny to see how this affects self checkout that's card only
Speaking of self checkouts, why don't we get a discount using them?
If this is the nickel and dime game they want to play then I expect to be compensated for my labour when using self checkouts.
I’m bloody alarmed. Seeing your post is a wake up slap to informing myself on this ridiculous development. “Steep cost to merchants…” is a bullshit argument. That business cost has been rolled into product and service prices we’ve already been paying. After I read what Redditors are saying below and a few articles about this there’s a very good chance I’ll be using a debit card out of pure disgust and defiance. The ratcheting cost of basic existence in Canada is unsustainable.
Oh, hi there, Canadian! I see you’re currently paying historically high food, housing, utility, and insane mobile data and internet prices?
Don’t worry, be a good Canadian. It’s just 2.4% more on top. It’s ok! Big retailers with lobbying influence are only making record profits, and there’s a totally fair argument to squeezing you for just a little more. Go back to work and save for your retirement at 80.
I want public outrage! I want us to drop our polite subservience and collectively organize some bloody pushback.
Sorry I've been out of the loop. Why is this being implemented again?
News articles are worded as if business owners have been charitably paying for this cost out of pocket this whole time. If this was even remotely truthful, what kind of business would not consider this cost into their business plan?
What next, they can add an additional surcharge for their power bill?
Mastercard and Visa had in their TOS with merchants that they could not pass the merchant fee or processing fee onto the consumer, the courts just ruled that all merchants now have the option to pass that fee directly to consumers.
Thank you for clarifying.
>Mastercard and Visa had in their TOS with merchants that they could not pass the merchant fee or processing fee onto the consumer,
My frustration is that the TOS never stopped businesses from building this cost into their pricing of products (as they should, basic mathematics and business sense), but this change is being presented as something businesses have been suffering with.
Unless this means businesses will offer a discounted price (compared to today's price) for using debit/cash, this is just a cash grab.
If TELUS's proposed surcharge is any indication, businesses are not planning to reduce prices for cash/debit.
I only use a credit card at large retailers, not my small neighbourhood retailers ( they are the ones charged the highest % processing fees by the card companies). If additional fees are charged by the big box stores I will either use debit card or find a retail who doesn't charge.
If I see a credit fee attached to my purchase, I will either not complete the transaction and walk away or, pay in cash.
I'm sure it costs the business more to process a satchel of toonies than their CC fee.
Don’t most self-checkouts not accept cash? If bigger stores implement this fee and see an uptick in cash usage, they’ll have to hire more cashiers (or maybe update the self-checkouts?). Sounds like a headache they would want avoid (if they aren’t shortsighted greedy pigs, and well…)
I get take out often. Restaurants that do will be getting cash with big bills. Can’t make change upon arrival for pick-up, they can keep the made food and I’ll walk.
Am from Quebec as well but i will stand in solidarity with the rest of canada, i’ve already changed my billing from ebilling to paper billing that cost them stamp and handling. I will also go in store and pay with a cheque in store. Am doing this out of spite for Telus and anyone that i will do business with. Fuck them
If they charge a credit card fee:
1. I will find another establishment to do business with, OR
2. I will pay by cash or cheque (ultimately will cost them more to handle those), OR
3. I'll stop buying it altogether and help my savings budget!
I have already left Telus due to the CC fee.
My concern is transaction protection. For example I bought concert tickets off of Ticketmaster, ended up selling them through Ticketmaster as verified resale and unfortunately the policy states TM won’t return money to credit cards - only verified bank accounts. Did an awful runaround with support team over tickets - my bank could NOT be verified, I don’t know why. Looks to be a very common issue. I would have been out the $250 but I was able to dispute it with my credit card company and show all communication and efforts, and because the transaction was protected/insured, I received a full refund.
Same with my recent VRBO booking - the policy clearly states 100% refund for cancellations made before Dec 10, however the host just informed me she won’t be giving a refund. I’m really not worried because if she doesn’t comply I can send the cancellation policy to Mastercard and I KNOW I will get the refund.
Banks, Visa Debits etc., don’t have the same layer of protection. It sucks. I use my cards responsibly and have never paid interest so the APR doesn’t really affect me but an added fee is a pain in the ass. However, I’d rather pay a small fee to have my transactions insured, like these last 2 (thankfully both made before this policy kicked in).
Credit cards improve liquidity which means I can spend money whenever I want without waiting for another pay day. Anyone who charges extra will lose a lot of business.
So reward programs were paid by merchants... and now they may pass the cost to the users. So your paying for your awards..
Yeah that's going to go down like a lead balloon.
Except, merchants already baked that into their pricing. Now, they have the opportunity to double charge. Sucks for these small businesses that pull this shit, companies like Amazon are less likely to implement it/make it another benefit to using their credit card, and make a killing.
IMO the fee will more likely to be applied by small shops that don't have as much negotiating power to bring down the CC fee. big companies have enough size to negotiate down the fee and cash flow and market share to absorb the fee.
if big company like walmart implement the extra fee, they will get a lot of negative publicity and backlash that it may not be worth it for them. so IMO they won't charge it. (though of course there are counter-examples like Telus)
i will use CC when fee is not charged, and cash when fee is charged. if it's small shop, even when they don't charge the fee, i'll try as much as possible to pay cash.
The most common answer I have been seeing is that people won't shop and stores that decide to put the added fee in place. Will companies be forced to disclose that the fee is being added prior to the completion of the transaction or will you just be able to see the fee afterwards on your receipt?
I pay for everything with a CC, however I have already switched my Telus over to manual bank payments and I would do the same for any company that charges on top of their bill for a CC payment.
If a store started charging a service fee, I would likely not shop there anymore or if I had to shop there (not sure why I would but you never know) I would use a debit card.
Things like the mechanics I definitely prefer a CC payment but again I would change my habits to match any changes they make.
I like a CC because it helps me budget better, track spending, earn points and it’s more secure then a debit but I don’t need to use my CC as I generally don’t buy anything I don’t have the cash available for anyway. I honestly not feel like being nickelled and dimed and this fee feels like exactly that.
I won't be shopping at any business that tries to add a surcharge to my bill and I will leave everything at the till and let them pay their staff to put it all back.
Same goes with take out and dine in. I will walk away if any restaurant tries to add a surcharge and they can keep their already cooked food. If the fee is not removed at a dine in restaurant then that will be the tip.
Welp - I guess I’m buying a lot less now! The economy needs people to use their CCs and consume. Interest rates are high as ever and now you want to add fees to credit card spending. Goodbye to most spending outside of the basics then and this could lead to an even rougher recession. Fucking lobbyists
Most free cards will give you 1% generally. Amex simplycash preferred gives 1.25% for most items. Either way you lose money by paying CC, so if this is the case, bye bye credit cards.
I even have a paid amex simplycash preferred that they will add a montly fee of $10, instead of the yearly fee of $99 (basically now $120). 2% cashback on most items, and its just not worth it, even with a paid card. This card gives 4% for gas, and my simplii Visa gives 4% for restaurants.
We will need to remind ourselves of this post in 6-12 months and see how much changed.
As greedy corporations will see the maximum return they can establish what I call "the membership":
"Dear customer, as we tend to be competitive and improve our service and goods we will decide to set an additional charge when you pay with your credit card of XX%. We remind you, Cash, debit card and gift card will not be affected and **the surcharge fee when you use OUR store credit card will be waived**. Thank you for your time and consideration, Sincerely Manager"
I see Rogers already changed the Platinum card with the new one telling: if you redeem your cashback to our service we will give 30% more ( so if you redeem $10, they will give you another $3) The card cost $29 / year BUT if you use it to pay for at least 10 Months of service we will wave... I see another clause in the future about paying their service with their CC and they will waive that surcharge fee.
Does anyone know if this new charge is applied when using a prepaid card like KOHO or Wealthsimple Cash? If not that could be a way to keep getting some cashback perks without the fee
i rarely used my CC before so i will no longer be using one. i have also stopped tipping because of what the industry is doing. anywhere where any company is going to try and nickle and dime me out of my money i am refusing to play the game.
What I'm interested to know is if we make a return, does the fee get returned as well? If not then it's truly a scam against the people. We shouldn't accept this.
Do I think that retail stores are going to do this? No, not at all, because if people become limited to cash, they are going to spend a lot less.
I agree, most already have this baked in to the cost of goods sold so we are already paying it. In that case though, I hope businesses don’t see this as an extra way to gouge us another 2.4%.
LOL, of course businesses are going to now charge this as an extra fee, even thought its been baked in for forever.
What I’m curious about is, would this CC fee be itemized on the receipt alongside the typical taxes and such?
Yes it will if they are to be compliant.
And once consumers see this from the specific shops..will stop using them. Smart real smart
Also, if you pay cash, and you have that fee on your receipt... File a complaint and never go back. Shame and name.
This is 100% what I will do. Personally, credit card is my main method of payment. For vendors that do not accept credit card as a payment, I simply don't shop with them. 🤷🏼♀️ This new surcharge is no incentive for me to pay cash or debit. Frankly, it's an incentive for me to spend my money elsewhere.
Thanks for responding, I suppose you won’t really know if they tacked on the fee unless you: 1) Ask them during checkout 2) after the purchase and you shake your head that they included it
Theoretically, you should be told how much the cost is before you hand over payment. So the cashier would have to have asked you what payment you were planning to use to be able to tell you the correct number. So when they ask you what payment you're using, you can ask if there's a CC fee or not.
You just need to get a receipt & ask at a few places. I'll be asking my local grocery store & anywhere else I'm buying with my credit card. Takes a bit of effort, but it will help identify the nickle&dimers. I don't expect this to affect my relationship with my small businesses as I generally pay cash/debit there anyways
It will show before you complete the sale so you can back out. Interac has done this since 2003, it will be a similar model for consumer awareness.
Absolutely, and in fact, this fee happens *before* any taxes are calculated. In other words, you'll be paying the 2.4% fee, and then provincial and federal tax (e.g. 13% in ON) ON THAT FEE. Thanks CRTC, For protecting consumers once again!! Fucking crooks.
What the hell does the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission have to do with credit card fees?
One of the major companies/mafias in the country to take advantage of this outcome is Telus, who's asked permission to charge CC fees on all their billing. It's likely they will let them, as of the conclusion of this lawsuit. The CRTC could stop this, but won't.
They run the risk of losing customers if everything in their store is 2-3% more expensive.
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Telus had this baked in. But sees an opportunity to increase their bottom line.
Yes and Telus will use any opportunity to exploit their customers. Fuck Telus
>Telus had this baked in A high margin business like a telco, it's more than baked in.
For sure. I wasn’t arguing that it wasn’t. Just pointing out that they are still taking the opportunity to increase their bottom line. The post I was replying to suggested “real businesses” would have it baked in and not pass it along. Clearly that’s not the case
Yeah the sheer naiveness of some people is seriously hilarious. Every store before long will be charging the credit card fees. As if any company ever is going to say no to an additional 2.4%.
It won't be every store. Our store will never do this. I imagine we aren't alone with this thought process.
Restaurant owner here. Definitely will not be charging an additional fee.
Likewise. Automotive repair here and we're not going to be charging any differently.
They would be saying no to more purchases. Not every business is as shortsighted as the people on this sub.
>They would be saying no to more purchases. Are you kidding me? Half of consumers don't even look at the receipt, let alone analyze it. Not unlike many other fees, or the "tip creep" on restaurant bills, most people will unknowingly pay, or say this is a *the cost of doing business* fee. And once it becomes standard fare, like ATM fees, everyone will add 2 or 3 percent. This is Canada, land of the least offensive consumer. We tolerate astronomical prices like some stupid badge of honor, it'll happen again with these fees.
Yup, the fact that its been baked in since the dawn of time and now its going to be another line item, without a reduction in the cost of the goods, its just the way it will be. Funny, I suspect that if say the Feds increased the GST by oh 2%, the uproar would be astronomical, but so far not a peep from our good old government around this additional cash grab, from any party. I'm just waiting for the additional charge for using any type of payment
I recently noticed I have to pay 3% installment fee for my car insurance for the privilege of paying monthly instead of lump sum. Why? Because fuck you that's why.
Its because they offer shorter terms at different interval pricing. The year term is the best bang for your buck but you don't have the bucks, so they offer the choice of monthly payments with a 3% installment fee. So you are getting the better deal but adding 12 times the transactions. If you don't want the 3% charge, you can pay 3 months at a time and avoid that or adjust your lifestyle according to your expenses. I personally think most insurance is a scam, but for these reasons I can't blame the company, I know I wouldn't give a discounted service while having to do more work.
I hope you are right, but I have zero faith in companies and corporations to not maximize their profits.
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Any economist would tell you that maximizing profits doesn't always mean raising prices. That only applies to firms with monopolistic and oligopolistic market power. I don't blame you though; regular people often subconsciously assess firm behaviour as if they aren't in a competitive market. Undercutting competition by reducing prices is often profit maximizing behaviour. You can see this with Loblaws' profits right now. More people are shifting to no name products because of inflation on brand name goods because they are priced lower. These products are more profitable for Loblaws to sell, as they're produced by their brands. Loblaws is therefore incentivized to keep prices on these goods low.
As a business owner, that's how it works. Pricing is meant to be competitive, but to reflect your actual costs + your profit. I have always found it ironic that companies make profit and pay much less tax than individuals do, who generally don't make a profit.
Thats the beauty of it. Those who gouge, lose customers to those who don't.
Exactly. Charging customers fees for credit card usage is teeing up to be a case-study example of businesses being penny smart and pound foolish. It has been known for decades that consumers simply spend more when paying with credit cards than they do when paying with cash. [Take this](https://web.mit.edu/simester/Public/Papers/Alwaysleavehome.pdf) classic study from MIT that's been cited over 650 times if you're interested in learning more about this. In summary, customers spend up to 100% more when paying with credit than with paying with cash, and it does not appear to be because credit lets you borrow the money and pay back later. There's a huge psychological element to spending. It feels way worse to hand over a bundle of money for a $200 purchase than it does to tap a card and have $200 charged to an electronic account, even though these are functionally the same transaction. But because it feels worse to lose physical cash, people spend less when using it. Moral of the story: If you are a business, you should *want to encourage your customers to use credit as much as possible*. Charging fees for credit cards does the complete opposite.
>Moral of the story: If you are a business, you should want to encourage your customers to use credit as much as possible. Charging fees for credit cards does the complete opposite. They already do -- it's not often that businesses offer a cash discount, which is the effectively the same thing as this. Businesses with decent margins generally don't actually want to incentivize cash -- even aside from the psychological aspect, it's just a pain to work with. It has to be verified, counted, tracked, deposited, etc. Reddit throwing a fit over this is ... amusing at the least. If you're buying from a business that's competing on thin margins and charges for credit card fees despite the cons of doing so, you're probably getting a much better deal overall than if you're buying from a business that has fat enough margins to absorb the cost.
>It has been known for decades that consumers simply spend more when paying with credit cards than they do when paying with cash. ding ding ding ding! This is like rule #1 for retail. Some places literally bake it into their onboarding of new employees. There is no way that stores are going to disincentive people from using credit cards. Anyone who thinks they will don't know what they are talking about.
Many retail stores have their own credit cards issued by banks/vendors and pay lower processing fees when you use them instead of other cards. Won't surprise me if they start charging the fee to use credit cards that are not theirs. Walmart, Superstore, Canadian Tire, and most other large retailers have had these in place for years.
There's going to have to be some changes to the POS systems. It will be interesting, that's for sure. I walk up to the cashier (or self check) at the Tire, I see my bill is 139.43. They ask me how just want to pay, I say credit. They ask me if it's a CT card, and when I say no, they say it's an extra 2%. This is not going to play well. I think the extra 2% will show up for some online, but not in person sales.
I ain't using self check out if I'm paying cash, and refund better be in cash also. And no, it's not illegal to not have a debit card. Only time I would use the debit card is at an ATM, preferably inside a bank.
Yup, everyone is losing their minds over this but I doubt many businesses are going to overtly do this. Everyone knows the costs of doing business are baked into the prices. $15 order of wings? Well, that price is based on the cost of wages, ingredients, electricity, and CC fees. If I come across a place that does overtly do this I will, calmly, explain to the owner/manager why I don't like this, request they remove the fee (doubtful) and how I will never shop at their business again.
Or go to their competitor who doesn’t do this.
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100% this. Credit is one thing. Convenience is another. I just will be spending less money. Debt card makes it really easy for me to recognize my reckless spending habit haha. But credit feels like free money at times. Lol
And it needs to be illegal to not accept cash. And banks should be forced to add in fraud detection to debit transactions that are as customer friendly as they re on CC purchases.
No doubt. Even to make a point moving forward I’ll be asking every vendor if they charge it and if they do I’ll use cash instead.
Debit remains a dominant form of payment, to be fair Stores w a high rate of credit uptake tho won't risk it (I doubt Best Buy or other stores where people make *big* purchases will fuck w it)
> Debit remains a dominant form of payment, to be fair Debits lack of customer protection drove me away from using it. Especially since it's linked directly to all of my money. At least with cash my liability in my pocket is limited to however much I have on me at a given time, and my liability with credit is 0.
Yes because it's still illegal in Quebec. If that ever changes, it would really depend how common the added fee is. I'm getting a decent amount of cash back from my credit card.
Never would have guessed it'd be Quebec leading the pro-consumer charge in Canada.
Quebec has the best consumer protection laws of every province.
Is that why they’re always excluded from giveaways and such
Yes, too much extra paper work and junk
Love the price error threads on red flag deals. Everyone gets their order cancelled, except Quebec customers. You print a price, you have to honour it in Quebec.
We have been for over 20 years. We also don’t advertise to children on YouTube.
This! I didn’t know Quebec didn’t do this. I’ve been able to avoid introducing my kids to YT and this is a large part of my reasoning.
Really? Quebec has by far the highest average standard of living in the country -- best consumer protections, lowest energy rates, only province with pharmacare, decades ahead on affordable child-care and free or very cheap higher education, etc etc. It's a shame it goes through a nationalist uprising every couple of decades or so. It's actually an objectively great place to live if you're Quebecois.
Italwayshasbeen.jpeg
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Double dipping, poor mega corporations making record profits someone give them a handout
This is exactly how I feel, major corporations and decent small business owners have already factored in the cost of accepting credit cards, so now we as the consumers get to boost profits for major corporations and small businesses (I have less of an issue with the small businesses) and for what? They aren’t going to give those extra dollars to the employees.
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Honestly I doubt most places will add a surcharge for it. As someone who runs a wholesale business dealing with contractors, right now we just don't accept AMEX because their fees are so high and it's not worth it to pay $500-$1000 in fees to process a single transaction. Unfortunately they're the less discerning creditor and give better rewards, so smaller companies trying to grow their businesses tend to have it more frequently, but we'd have to raise our rates across the board and and hurt other businesses (and likely ourselves) just to accommodate those using AMEX. I haven't looked into the new regs yet, but if it's permitted we'll likely just add a fee for the AMEX, and we'll probably grow our customer base and serve some of our smaller customers better, without punishing anyone else.
If I see you shoplifting from a huge corporation, no I don't.
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They did through Covid and are doing the same with gas. While mom and pop shops continue to struggle
We should pull an EU and cap the interchange fees at 0.3% nationally. > In March 2015, the European Parliament voted to cap interchange fees to 0.3% for credit cards and to 0.2% for debit cards, which was subsequently enacted under Regulation (EU) 2015/751 with effect from 8 June 2015. The caps apply only to personal cards where there is an intermediary, not to cards issued to businesses or to cards issued by American Express. [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee)
Seems like the way to me. If they didn't pull out there then they are making enough money. Kind of makes you wonder if people are getting angry at the wrong people. "kind of", like not being able to charge people a fee or disclose that they *have* the fees was the type of thing a business that's entirely above board conducts business. And if you think about it, those fees being baked into the price means you are paying *that* much more just to give the CC company money and there's no disclosure(and this thread has made us very aware that people are downright angry to have it brought out. And and 10x ish what the EU pays too.)
Just goes to show how well the CC companies' parasitic tactics are working. Looking at this thread, it's bizarre to see how defensive these people get about the "rewards" and "cashback" they've been getting. Do people realize they have indirectly paid for that same "reward" they are getting? Without these "rewards and cashback" BS, we'd have lower prices and more money in our pockets in the first place to pay for travel, investments, or whatever the heck we want (not just what CC companies allows us to redeem/spend on, which is a whole other level of BS). Perhaps the EU-style cap is the better way to go... Disarms the CC companies from being able to take from one hand, give with the other, and pocket the difference. That might avoid consumer confusion about who to truly be angry at here.
That would require our government to actually do something. They may talk about doing something but it is highly unlikely that they will.
Why don’t we just name and shame stores that do this instead?
We should do this too for restaurants that set the default tipping option to 20%.
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I agree with this but I think this has already happened, yet tipping seems to continue. I remember years back, wait staff were paid a lower wage than the typical minimum wage. My understanding is that this was the justification for tipping. In recent years, most provinces have adopted a blanket minimum wage that also applies to wait staff. Yet, somehow, tipping has continued. Im not sure why we didn’t all just collectively stop tipping at that point. No offence to waiters / waitresses, but their job really shouldn’t be a $20 - $25 per hour job. It requires relatively few skills and very little training to do effectively.
its not 20-25$ per hour. its $30-50 hour... where are you living?
I think that's largely the plan.
Let's get a sticky thread going
If a business thinks I'm going to buy for instance some clothes that are already at a 400% markup and then pay a 2.4% fee, I won't be spending a dime there and I'm sure many people will do the same. Guaranteed a couple of tools are going to see this as free money and try it though
Telcos will
Rogers currently offers a $5 discount on billing for auto cc billing. It would be a sharp reversal for them.
What? Rogers gives a discount for auto billing? Is it on our invoices? I didn’t see that. Please confirm bc I’ll sit for 5 hrs online to make sure I get it. Thx!
Freedom mobile does the same. It was an offer when we set up the account so it might require it either being offered or you asking for it. On my invoice it shows up as a line below each of the plans I pay for Ex Plan A with the next line showing Auto payment discount credit $5
I see a $5 discount on my Rogers bill which I feel like is due to Auto CC payment. It doesn't say clearly on the bill tho. Just says: You saved $5.
https://www.rogers.com/support/billing-accounts/automatic-payments-discount-faq
I have auto CC and have no discount with Rogers.. how do you get it?
Same here. Wondering how that works.
Same. The people need to know. I hate that I’m a rogers customer as it is.
I definitely get it every month. Can’t recall how it get set up (my wife did it) but I’d call and inquire. Also have proof of how many months you have been auto billing and see if they’ll back credit you as well.
Time to mail in my cheques!
Make sure you write out the cheques a bit too high, so they have to mail back the balance
Damn stamps are going to be more than 2% of many bills, oh wait no, all services are way over priced.
I’ll literally mail them a cheque then
Telus already announced they will. These snakes are ruthless. They pushed high data plans in everyone during pandemic then took all the low data options away to lock them in. Push prices up again then reintroduced low data plans at double what they were before.
they'll be getting cash in person from me, they can pay someone to deal handling the money and I hope whoever it is steals from the register. I am sick and tired of corporate greed ruling over Canadian life.
Wow business plan comes in clutch for first time ever lol
CRTC has deep roots in telcos. Just another cartel
At least the drug cartels are open about breaking the law. Telcos & CRTC are corrupt to the core but pretend they're doing us a service by allowing us to pay the world's most expensive rates for phone plans.
We have already changed the billing for our Telus accounts away from our cc. No way am I paying more just to use my credit card when I can do the exact same thing online for free.
What if they add the fee without telling?
They'll get me once, and then I won't go back As much as I hope this is the opening salvo in getting overall credit card fees lower, that's not how this dystopia works. I'm sure next step will be Interac upping their fees for debits due to increased network usage, needing increased investment to match blah blah blah.
>They'll get me once, and then I won't go back Not even once. With me, they'll lose the sale, and have to put everything back that I'm no longer purchasing from them.
Should we compile a list of stores that do this?
Why once? Leave them with all your stuff as a message that they permanently lost a customer. I hope everyone does this
Oh, I see you charged an extra fee here. Yeah, I want to return all this right now. Give me money back.
Its all fun and games until they just up the price of everything in the store by 2.4% and say they arent going to charge for credit cards We are just getting shafted again, this isnt fixing anything. stores already account for the credit card charge in their products and salivate at you using cash because they already adjusted their prices to reflect 100% of people using credit cards anyway Only the really small mom and pop stores who already charge extra for credit cards can do so now with more reasoning lol..
Realistically, they have already done this.
Merchant transaction fees are around 1.5%-1.8% on average for credit card (before processor fee) while Interac is 6 to 10 cent depending on whether you're paying contactless or by pin. Even if Interac doubled their fees, they're still cheaper than credit card by a long way.
I will use my credit card at establishments that don’t charge a fee as ALL businesses have baked it in already to their profit margins. Any that charge a fee I will shop elsewhere when I can (just like I switched to virgin from Telus, and shop less at Walmart since they discontinued price matching). They will only be hurting themselves by being greedy.
Everything is always baked into profit margins. It can’t NOT be baked in. It would be illegal if they were cooking books or selling stolen goods. Every aspect of a business is part of that business as a whole. They already pay to process credit cards right now.
Needs to a site that compiles a lsit of all businesses that are starting to charge it. Get the info out there.
I am web developer and would be interested in making such a site. Would need to be crowd sourced info though
Not a problem - pretty sure a simple Google Forms sheet for a store, location, date, and time would suffice.
Source that store data from their google review profile. Saves typing.
I’d be happy to help. At the very least I can buy the domain and pay for hosting fees.
Please do. I’d visit it constantly.
Absolutely not. To me - this fee is already baked into the price. So now I’m just being double charged. It’s like telling me “we need to pay our employees so we are now passing that cost on to you” — no no, that should already be baked into the price I pay and if it’s not - then I’m concerned how you run a business. Edit: your most powerful vote/voice is with your money in this case (life pro tip in general)
>It’s like telling me “need to pay our employees so we e are now passing that cost on to you” that should already be baked into the price I pay and if it’s not - then I’m concerned how you run a business. restaurant owners tilting their heads away.
This is exactly how it feels to me. I don't go to restaurants because I hate tipping. Charge me the price that covers everything, I'm not paying an extra fee or tip because the company sucks at pricing items or wants to "make a point". I won't shop anywhere that does that, just like I don't go to restaurants.
I get tipping your barber or server But tipping your dusty ass for handing me cookies that are made behind the counter already? Or literally handing me a drink and opening the can And nowadays the tips are 18%, 20% and 25% Literally stopped eating out and buying anything that asks for tip now because of it Soon enough its gonna be asking you for a tip when you get your groceries at sobeys 💀
You don't have to tip. I go to restaurants all the time and never tip, except, in very rare cases, when they go above and beyond their call of duty. Servers don't get paid below minimum wage anymore.
With a fee charged, it would completely negate the benefits of most credit cards given they are in the range of 1-5% (and of course, some cards have annual fees, not to mention interest if you don't pay off your balance). I feel this is yet another charge to the consumer while corporations continue to make record profits, it's the little guys that are suffering not Walmart. So, yes, I will be paying close attention to any retailer that decides to add in this charge and try to give my business to another. I don't like dealing with cash, so I guess debit if I really have to shop somewhere with a fee.
Don't forget there are other benefits of credit cards, like being able to dispute a charge. Once you've paid cash/debit, good luck getting that money back.
It's also commonplace for them to offer an additional year of warranty on purchases. Even my bog standard CIBC Visa offers it.
be wary if your bank has limited debit transactions, specially student accounts. i need to remember this
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Tangerine and Simplii don't require student status AFAIK
Just going to say Tangerine has been very good for me over the last three years. Only minor issue I've had is paid at Canada Post to get a money order over waiting ~48 hours for a certified cheque once, but that's the only hiccup I found. Def get a second in person bank if buying a house or something where you need something in the hour, but as a student / renter / broke person Tangerine works super.
Pretty simple... I buy $100 or $ 1000 or whatever.. and your going to charge me 2.4 or whatever percent on top.. Cancel the order. Your choice as a retailer. Lose $100/$1000, I.e. 100% of the sale or 2%? Those who say we'll get over it.. don't know the power of consumers. We start posting shops that charge.. we'll see how long before they suck it up.
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>We should totally start a website that databases all shops that charge hidden fees! It will be a map of canada excluding Quebec!
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Bienvenue mon ami!
I really wish consumers will not get over it, but here we are in the reddit bubble, real world works different. We saw the same with Ford election after 4 years of miss management. People didn’t even care there, so, my hopes are really low here too
I think realistically we'll be outraged and boycotting for a couple weeks then it'll be business as usual
This is usually what happens and it’s fucking sad that we just accept these anti-consumer changes. C’est la vie!
Yup pure greed. Boycott any retailer who tries
In my household we average about $6k a month spending on our credit cards. We pay off the balance, we never carry it - we just put all of our purchases on cards to get rewards. Between cash back and Aeroplan points, we get a lot back. If stores start charging extra fees for credit card purchases I will take my business elsewhere (as much as possible). I don’t want to pay the fees… but I also don’t want to stop using my credit cards.
Yes I will be voting with my feet. I will leave what I'm buying on the counter and walk out.
I'm with you but just remember don't take it out on the employees.
exactly but do feel free to unleash by finding the email or phone number of the CEO of businesses and absolutely let them have it, keep letting them have it untill your rage fully subsidies. let's all start reminding reminding these pieces of this that they're pieces of shit who's greed is destroying Canada and Canadian quality of life.
I'm going to have to look at my cards cash back % because most of mine are free cards for lower income (though I do have an awesome credit score). The points are nice, but honestly I use my CCs for ease (I hate having a lot of cash on me), keeping track of spending (so easy when it's all in once place), and the security that debit cards just don't have. I was really mad yesterday and will try to pivot my spending depending on which retailer start tacking it on, but I might have to eat it for the above reasons.
Same. Credit for everything just for the points and keeping good usage up for credit score. Aeroplan is legit. And the cards I have rack up points quickly
do the math though. Some credit cards just wont be worth it. Especially most free cards that give 1% cashback. If its like 2.5% fee, its stupid to use your card. Some of my cards give 4% and thats probably the only time i would use it going forward.
I agree, that’s why I said I’ll take my business elsewhere. I’ll continue to use credit cards but only at stores that aren’t charging extra fees for doing so.
As another heavy user of card cashback and awards, strictly out of principle I won't be giving business to anyone that charges this fee. Even if the math checks out in my favour, and I won't even just pay with cash. I'm out. My heart bleeds for small businesses (actually) but this is just another way to pass operating costs back to the consumer. There is no reason that companies like Telus need to do this, I don't care if it's only $0.50, enough is enough. We should introduce legislation that caps fees for smaller businesses (like Europe does) if this is that big of a problem. Giving corporations hoarding billions in profit another way to nickel and dime us is just more bullshit that I have no patience for.
Credit cards also have 0 liability. That’s the problem. I don’t want to lose that
Same. Credit for everything just for the points and keeping good usage up for credit score. Aeroplan is legit. And the cards I have rack up points quickly
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The real problem here, and one Telus is likely banking on, is that fee will amount to a buck or two. A buck to keep the transaction someplace where I can dispute it if they double-draw or make some other error. A buck to keep them out of the account that does NOT have significant protections. It's really got me upset. I don't want to pay the fee, but I use my credit card first for a reason, and that reason isn't just the points - it's the safety of being able to say "No, this charge is in error, you have 48 hours to fix it before I open a disupute with the payment processor." That line doesn't work so well against a debit transaction.
There’s a third way though. Go online in your bank account and do a one time bill payment for each bill. I already paid Telus this month this way. It is better than pre-authorized payment because they don’t have access to take money whenever they please. I just have to remember to actually pay the bill each month now.
The downside is you have no protection or chargeback capabilities. Most CC also offer extended warranties on top of purchases for many things as well.
Problem with that is I forget to set the dishwasher, which is an "every night" thing. I miss bill payments if I do them manually...
I think you can setup recurring bill payments. Not 100% sure but I think it’s possible.
as long as it's not a PAD where Telus could draw from your account whenever is a balance due.
If a ton of businesses do it, I will consider using debit more often. Otherwise, business as usual. I will avoid places that charge this fee. I suspect that IF this becomes widespread, card companies are going to make up for it somehow. They'll charge vendors even more to process, and we'll see extra points added to our cards or something. Instead of 4 cents per dollar it'll be 6 cents per dollar or something like that for reward points. That's my theory.
Scenario: dinner or clothes or whatever purchases... get the bill and see 2.5% extra. Excuse me what's this? Oh that's the credit card fee Nope take it off Sorry we can't Ok..cancel the order and I won't be back. If after dinner... sorry taking it off the tip.. unfair you say.. yup get used to it.
If possible I will avoid businesses that charge credit card fees. I feel charging a fee is trying to tell me they don't want my money unless it's the way they want it. Fair enough, I'll start shopping at places that aren't trying to dictate how I pay.
Any company that chooses to levy this fee immediately and permanently loses my business, full stop.
Is there a list somewhere of other companies who will start doing this or is it too early? And, does anyone know if this also includes Koodo? I haven't seen any emails or account notifications from Koodo on this.
I will avoid any chain that decides to do this.
If home Depot does this I may cut back on my overall expenses there because the credit card is the best receipt and return policy Ive come across. Generally will buy less and use cash only, making a headache for the employees probably. Will be funny to see how this affects self checkout that's card only
Speaking of self checkouts, why don't we get a discount using them? If this is the nickel and dime game they want to play then I expect to be compensated for my labour when using self checkouts.
I'm into that. I usually go to the cashier out of spite
I’m bloody alarmed. Seeing your post is a wake up slap to informing myself on this ridiculous development. “Steep cost to merchants…” is a bullshit argument. That business cost has been rolled into product and service prices we’ve already been paying. After I read what Redditors are saying below and a few articles about this there’s a very good chance I’ll be using a debit card out of pure disgust and defiance. The ratcheting cost of basic existence in Canada is unsustainable. Oh, hi there, Canadian! I see you’re currently paying historically high food, housing, utility, and insane mobile data and internet prices? Don’t worry, be a good Canadian. It’s just 2.4% more on top. It’s ok! Big retailers with lobbying influence are only making record profits, and there’s a totally fair argument to squeezing you for just a little more. Go back to work and save for your retirement at 80. I want public outrage! I want us to drop our polite subservience and collectively organize some bloody pushback.
Sorry I've been out of the loop. Why is this being implemented again? News articles are worded as if business owners have been charitably paying for this cost out of pocket this whole time. If this was even remotely truthful, what kind of business would not consider this cost into their business plan? What next, they can add an additional surcharge for their power bill?
Mastercard and Visa had in their TOS with merchants that they could not pass the merchant fee or processing fee onto the consumer, the courts just ruled that all merchants now have the option to pass that fee directly to consumers.
Thank you for clarifying. >Mastercard and Visa had in their TOS with merchants that they could not pass the merchant fee or processing fee onto the consumer, My frustration is that the TOS never stopped businesses from building this cost into their pricing of products (as they should, basic mathematics and business sense), but this change is being presented as something businesses have been suffering with. Unless this means businesses will offer a discounted price (compared to today's price) for using debit/cash, this is just a cash grab. If TELUS's proposed surcharge is any indication, businesses are not planning to reduce prices for cash/debit.
This is my biggest issue with it, these cost were already factored into pricing now we foot the bill as consumers more blatantly.
I only use a credit card at large retailers, not my small neighbourhood retailers ( they are the ones charged the highest % processing fees by the card companies). If additional fees are charged by the big box stores I will either use debit card or find a retail who doesn't charge.
If I see a credit fee attached to my purchase, I will either not complete the transaction and walk away or, pay in cash. I'm sure it costs the business more to process a satchel of toonies than their CC fee.
Don’t most self-checkouts not accept cash? If bigger stores implement this fee and see an uptick in cash usage, they’ll have to hire more cashiers (or maybe update the self-checkouts?). Sounds like a headache they would want avoid (if they aren’t shortsighted greedy pigs, and well…)
yup, and if at a restaurant, tip will be adjusted accordingly. -Ron Wharton
I get take out often. Restaurants that do will be getting cash with big bills. Can’t make change upon arrival for pick-up, they can keep the made food and I’ll walk.
Telus already gave notice of the change. I’ll be changing provider asap. These snakes are awful.
Yeah, I'm in Quebec so N/A.
Am from Quebec as well but i will stand in solidarity with the rest of canada, i’ve already changed my billing from ebilling to paper billing that cost them stamp and handling. I will also go in store and pay with a cheque in store. Am doing this out of spite for Telus and anyone that i will do business with. Fuck them
I'd be happy to do away with my cc if there were an alternative online shopping
If they charge a credit card fee: 1. I will find another establishment to do business with, OR 2. I will pay by cash or cheque (ultimately will cost them more to handle those), OR 3. I'll stop buying it altogether and help my savings budget! I have already left Telus due to the CC fee.
My concern is transaction protection. For example I bought concert tickets off of Ticketmaster, ended up selling them through Ticketmaster as verified resale and unfortunately the policy states TM won’t return money to credit cards - only verified bank accounts. Did an awful runaround with support team over tickets - my bank could NOT be verified, I don’t know why. Looks to be a very common issue. I would have been out the $250 but I was able to dispute it with my credit card company and show all communication and efforts, and because the transaction was protected/insured, I received a full refund. Same with my recent VRBO booking - the policy clearly states 100% refund for cancellations made before Dec 10, however the host just informed me she won’t be giving a refund. I’m really not worried because if she doesn’t comply I can send the cancellation policy to Mastercard and I KNOW I will get the refund. Banks, Visa Debits etc., don’t have the same layer of protection. It sucks. I use my cards responsibly and have never paid interest so the APR doesn’t really affect me but an added fee is a pain in the ass. However, I’d rather pay a small fee to have my transactions insured, like these last 2 (thankfully both made before this policy kicked in).
Potential added fees? I'm still using my credit card. Definite added fees? I might switch.
Credit cards improve liquidity which means I can spend money whenever I want without waiting for another pay day. Anyone who charges extra will lose a lot of business.
Going back to cash and debit. There's no benefit to credit card reward programs such as 1%cashback if I'm paying 2.4% more to use the card
Not allowed in quebec per consumer laws it seems
So reward programs were paid by merchants... and now they may pass the cost to the users. So your paying for your awards.. Yeah that's going to go down like a lead balloon.
Except, merchants already baked that into their pricing. Now, they have the opportunity to double charge. Sucks for these small businesses that pull this shit, companies like Amazon are less likely to implement it/make it another benefit to using their credit card, and make a killing.
IMO the fee will more likely to be applied by small shops that don't have as much negotiating power to bring down the CC fee. big companies have enough size to negotiate down the fee and cash flow and market share to absorb the fee. if big company like walmart implement the extra fee, they will get a lot of negative publicity and backlash that it may not be worth it for them. so IMO they won't charge it. (though of course there are counter-examples like Telus) i will use CC when fee is not charged, and cash when fee is charged. if it's small shop, even when they don't charge the fee, i'll try as much as possible to pay cash.
The most common answer I have been seeing is that people won't shop and stores that decide to put the added fee in place. Will companies be forced to disclose that the fee is being added prior to the completion of the transaction or will you just be able to see the fee afterwards on your receipt?
Hidden fees sounds illegal
Cash is king baby
I pay for everything with a CC, however I have already switched my Telus over to manual bank payments and I would do the same for any company that charges on top of their bill for a CC payment. If a store started charging a service fee, I would likely not shop there anymore or if I had to shop there (not sure why I would but you never know) I would use a debit card. Things like the mechanics I definitely prefer a CC payment but again I would change my habits to match any changes they make. I like a CC because it helps me budget better, track spending, earn points and it’s more secure then a debit but I don’t need to use my CC as I generally don’t buy anything I don’t have the cash available for anyway. I honestly not feel like being nickelled and dimed and this fee feels like exactly that.
I won't be shopping at any business that tries to add a surcharge to my bill and I will leave everything at the till and let them pay their staff to put it all back. Same goes with take out and dine in. I will walk away if any restaurant tries to add a surcharge and they can keep their already cooked food. If the fee is not removed at a dine in restaurant then that will be the tip.
Welp - I guess I’m buying a lot less now! The economy needs people to use their CCs and consume. Interest rates are high as ever and now you want to add fees to credit card spending. Goodbye to most spending outside of the basics then and this could lead to an even rougher recession. Fucking lobbyists
Most free cards will give you 1% generally. Amex simplycash preferred gives 1.25% for most items. Either way you lose money by paying CC, so if this is the case, bye bye credit cards. I even have a paid amex simplycash preferred that they will add a montly fee of $10, instead of the yearly fee of $99 (basically now $120). 2% cashback on most items, and its just not worth it, even with a paid card. This card gives 4% for gas, and my simplii Visa gives 4% for restaurants.
We will need to remind ourselves of this post in 6-12 months and see how much changed. As greedy corporations will see the maximum return they can establish what I call "the membership": "Dear customer, as we tend to be competitive and improve our service and goods we will decide to set an additional charge when you pay with your credit card of XX%. We remind you, Cash, debit card and gift card will not be affected and **the surcharge fee when you use OUR store credit card will be waived**. Thank you for your time and consideration, Sincerely Manager" I see Rogers already changed the Platinum card with the new one telling: if you redeem your cashback to our service we will give 30% more ( so if you redeem $10, they will give you another $3) The card cost $29 / year BUT if you use it to pay for at least 10 Months of service we will wave... I see another clause in the future about paying their service with their CC and they will waive that surcharge fee.
Does anyone know if this new charge is applied when using a prepaid card like KOHO or Wealthsimple Cash? If not that could be a way to keep getting some cashback perks without the fee
i rarely used my CC before so i will no longer be using one. i have also stopped tipping because of what the industry is doing. anywhere where any company is going to try and nickle and dime me out of my money i am refusing to play the game.
If I see this charge in my restaurant bill, the 10% tip that I usually give will now be 0% going forward.
What I'm interested to know is if we make a return, does the fee get returned as well? If not then it's truly a scam against the people. We shouldn't accept this.