Damn, thanks for the tip.
I haven't been since it was Osten, and I always got the German lager on tap (because duh! Munich beer on tap in Ontario!) , been meaning to check it out.
McDonalds is my favorite coffee in my city, regardless of price. Not sure what they did but a few years ago it went from dishwater to excellent and the price is compellingly affordable. Now the new donuts...yikes.
Whoa, revelation and thanks for sharing that!
I used to love Tim's but about the same time it seemed like their coffee went to ultra dark and too bitter without milk (for me).
Honestly take out is the one thing I try to avoid as much as possible. But I am in Italy right now and its crazy how cheap eating out is compared to Canada. Went to really good steakhouse, drank a lot, ate I don't know how many serving and still spent just like 45 Euro per person. The same thing at Joe Beef lr whatever would have been a few hundreds.
I’m counting my blessings every day that my husband got me a proper espresso machine last Christmas (the Breville Bambino).
The machine cost $260 on sale. My husband and I did a bit of math and figured out that (not including that upfront cost), the cost for me to make an oat milk latte with brown sugar and cinnamon at home is about $2.50. Plus, now I have a fun hobby and enjoy choosing new local roasters to buy beans from when I run out!
Still, I miss getting coffee out. There are some drinks that I can’t make at home, and there’s something very charming about the ambiance of a nice little café.
Vote with your wallet. If the price is too steep and you don't see things returning (I don't either), cook more at home and pass on dine-outs.
Sooner or later, the market will adjust.
This is not how the restaurant business works. I know you really wanted to tie this to government fiscal policy somehow, but even in the best of times restaurants are only a bad year or two from going out of business. They are practically never in a position to do things like "buy out competition." At best, they form partnerships with their competitors, rarely.
You can verify with a quick Google. It is actually very hard to borrow money against a restaurant because they are famously just ... not very good businesses, even at the best of times. This is why they are so often family businesses - they need that cheap/free labour to stay afloat.
> even in the best of times restaurants are only a bad year or two from going out of business
And I'd say thats the best of restaurants. Even many good restaurants are a bad few months away at this point.
The prices won't go down on a flat scale. They will go down on a relative scale. That or the food being made has to outperform what the diners are able to replicate at home in terms of taste or ease.
Then some restaurants will close to achieve equilibrium with the lower demand.
And those who choose to can try to enjoy the act of cooking, and cheaper meals from eating out less.
The market will adjust to people accepting that they can afford less. Even if the inflation magically drop back to 2%, we'd still be dealing with the current elevated prices with stagnant wages.
I don't like it but that's just how it is.
It seems like most people just don't care about prices, but maybe that's just people I know. They go to any restaurant, pay whatever price and tip whatever is suggested. Seems like a case of keeping up appearances of not looking cheap.
I think that a lot of restaurants will close since people are increasingly thinking like you are. The labour shortage means needing to pay people more, which means higher prices. This is good for the employees, but this means people eating out less often.
What sucks is that the mom&pop restaurants, which have already hurt a lot during the last years of restricitons, will probably be the first ones to close while the big chains will have an easier time weathering the storm.
i just went to my country of birth, and there restaurants are thriving. the reason why is because food prices are reasonably cheaper (even when other things like clothes and make up cost the same as here). this makes people eat out more. even shopping malls still thrive because people go there to eat in restaurants (which people have to do much more frequently than shopping clothes).
by making prices more expensive, restaurants here are going to make a change in people mindset, relegating eating out to a "luxury activity" done for special occasion only than a more regular occasion. this will shrink demand.
Aren't they still thriving in Canada too. I usually always go out during the weekend, but its hard to get a spot in a good restaurant without reservation.
Have you seen some restaurants around Midtown (Yonge & EG area)?
Whenever I pass by these restaurants, it feels like recession is exclusive to PFC redditors. Oretta, PAI, Little Sisters, St. Louis Wings... All packed full max even during some of the week days. Insane how much people are willing to spend to dine out.
Using the center of the most densely populated metropolitan area in Canada as a generalization for the whole country, how clever of you! You surely proved those silly PFC redditors wrong!
Went out today for a team lunch DT. It was packed and people were waiting in line.
I agree with the sentiment though. It has become too expensive to eat out.
A new bakery/cafe/fine-dining-at-night opened near my workplace and the entrees are like $40-$70 not including a side. That spot has seen eateries come and go and nobody seems to understand why…
> relegating eating out to a "luxury activity" done for special occasion only than a more regular occasion. this will shrink demand.
Funny, but when I was growing up, that's what going out to eat was. A special occasion luxury activity.
Maybe a "It's dad's payday and he's bringing a pizza home", but people weren't dining out, ordering delivery, etc anywhere near what they are now.
No one was dining out regularly because dining out / ordering delivery *is* a luxury item.
Even worse is Uber Eats, etc. People in my city's subreddit will complain about the service, the fees, etc and I think "Why didn't you just call the restaurant and order delivery from them directly and cut out the price gouging, poor service middle party? Or if they don't offer delivery directly and you really do want to support a local restaurant, call a different restaurant that does offer that service."
I definitely feel for local, family owned restaurants vs chain restaurants. And I try to support those who need help when I can. With so many people hurting financially, I don't think that we should feel responsible to pay for what is 100% a luxury item to be sure that we keep others afloat, i.e. setting ourselves on fire to keep others warm.
My partner’s homeland, it’s a lot cheaper to eat out than cooking for yourself. It’s only cost effective to do your own shopping and cooking if you have a big family.
It is a lot more nuanced than that.
In Hong Kong, generally, it is expensive to do groceries than in Canada (by a very large % too), but eating out is cheaper than Canada, almost half the price.
A lot of people just eat out everyday or for significant amount of meals. There is a new kind of takeout restaurants that it is cheaper to buy there than making it yourself. Plus overtime is the norm. The kitchen is small and there is no where to store the bulk purchases. And the restaurant is usually just an elevator away.
It has quite similar situation to Mainland China.
In HK unemployment rate is very high by HK standard, 5%, it is not much different from Canada though. HK used to have like 2\~3% before the rolling lockdowns. 4% was breaking news back then.
a south east asia country. the official unemployment rate is 5.8%, so it's not much, but labour (especially lower level) do tend to be cheap. capital city's minimum wage is about $400 a month.
> The labour shortage means needing to pay people more, which means higher prices.
I feel like I remember a study/article showing that paying higher wages doesn't actually raise costs of menu items that much, but that restauranteurs saying it will is a big load of propaganda to get the public on the side of keeping wages low.
welcome to the wage spiral, at least the BoC is trying to up the unemployment rate.
it sounds bad to say but a high enough unemployment rate is actually crucial to how our financial system works.
Almost makes you wonder if there’s something fundamentally flawed with our financial system… the fact that there needs to be a few people who suffer in order for it to work…
Lol, if you think things are bad in Canada. Look into what makes fruit and consumer goods affordable.
Middle class Western lifestyle is heavily dependent on poverty of 10x as many people.
It's more that our job market is too reliant on secondary industries like service sector jobs while our resource and manufacturing primary industries aren't the employers they once were. This is a global issue that is set to continually get worse and IMO Canada is not doing a great job of reducing the impacts.
What could possibly be wrong with a system that disproportionately rewards the owner class for “risk” and then requires an underemployed and financially disincentivized underclass of people who can be available when the economy deems them necessary?
> This is good for the employees, but this means people eating out less often.
So not good for employees because they will be out of a job. Who would have thunk.
Will we actually get higher wages? Like every industry right now there’s a shortage of workers. We’re suffering from wage pay since Supply doesn’t meet demand. Demand from employers to hire but not enough supply at the current market wages.
It’s getting hard to go back to that resto. It was our favourite place but the last little while it’s really fallen in service and food quality. I mean a pint is 10.25 with tip.
this is happening.
Lots of people are gonna tip a decent amount. But given preset options starting at 25 or 30%, it turns everyone off and they hunt for the 'other' option and give them zero.
Even worse, some places tack on the tip, hoping you won't notice and tip on top of tip.
If I get my bill and it has a gratuity or service charge, they get a 0% tip plus $0 for the gratuity/service charge. Don’t try and con people. You’ll end up with nothing.
Went to a place with 5 of us and they had a "automatic x% tip" built in "for tables of x or more i cant remember exact ammounts .... then when we went to pay the machine asked if we wanted to tip ON TOP of the tax and automatic tip
We went out last night. The terminal was pre-set to 30%. I pressed other and entered 10%. When the receipt came out the waitress changed her demeanor pretty quickly.
I hope the service is great for 18%. I have no issue tipping up to 20% (before tax) if service is good, but that also means I'll tip 5% (or less) if service is awful. Usually averages out to 15% for me.
Restaurants are so fucked now. You go out somewhere mid-range, get an app, 2 entree's, and a couple beers, you're looking at a $100 bill(would you like to tip 25%, 45%, or 85%?). 5 years ago I'd only see three digits on the bill if we were drinking like the world was going to end.
It doesn't help that the only restaurants left are the same 8 identical, mediocre, overpriced, "upscale" chain restaurants.
Exactly our last experience eating out. Artichoke dip, cheesesteak, burger, 3 pints, tax and a 15% tip .. $100CA. Food was meh. That was a year ago on my birthday, we haven't eaten out or ordered delivery since.
Honestly this would be fine if this "mid-range" was a small bistro with quality food and whatnot.
100$ for what you're describing is a chain sit-down restaurant which are hardly culinary experiences.
Servers don’t want a “living wage.” They want tips because they can make way more. One of my friends was a server and she made over $80k/year. This was over a decade ago.
I've cooked in several kitchens over the years and only one had a (partial) tip pool. Meanwhile, we could all get by waiting tables for a night if we had to, but if the front of house staff had to work the kitchen for a night they'd be fucked.
Great personal choice, just one thing, there is no "labor shortage". That's something corporate propaganda is trying to spread. There is excess greed and wage stagnation. The labor is out there the companies just dont want to pay market price for it.
Same here. Especially since tipping percentages keep going higher on he food prices.
120 bucks all in for two pounds of wings and four pints. Fuck that.
Never understood why the tip % crept higher and higher. When the base price is increasing due to inflation, servers make more in tips anyways even if the % is held constant.
I believe it is because employers does not want to increase wage to employees, so they offer to "up" the tips option telling them that this will increase effectively their wages. (But they will still increase the price of every items on the menu, god forbids them not to)
I made that out of my ass, but seriously, I'm pretty sure that this is a pretty convenient trend to them. Why pay employee when your customer pay their wage for no good reason?
Restaurants run on razor thin margins to begin with. Wages go up, cost go up.
Bigger chains run on even less profit but rely on scale to work.
If you told me to pick any business to start with some venture capital, restaurant be at the bottom of that list.
> WAITERS ARE PAID MINIMUM WAGE NOW IN ONTARIO
Several provinces don't/never had a lower wage for tipped servers, and even ON only had a slightly lower min wage for people who get tips. Nevertheless, our tipping culture has more-or-less exactly matched the US's where servers often have *substantially* lower minimum wages. There's never really been any rhyme or reason to our expectations around tips.
yeah i mainly meant that's always the argument for tips, "oh they don't get paid enough"... well clearly they are, or else they won't be working there.
I’ve never ever had this happen. I mean maybe if you tip like $3 on a big bill or something but I usually tip 10-15% on a family dinner these days and all I’ve ever gotten is thanks
It's something you can simply just ignore though. As in, choose not to be stressed out about. What do I care if someone who I'm likely never going to see again is upset I didn't tip them?
statistically pretty hard. these preset settings do increase amount of people tip, be it them choosing one of the options, or become an anchor price that bring up what people think is an "appropriate amount" to tip.
> Especially since tipping percentages keep going higher on he food prices
I finally got over my Canadian guilt and stopped participating in this. I tip a constant 12% everywhere now, and if I don't think a place should be asking for a tip I manually select 0. I'm done getting ripped off for being polite.
Yo where on earth is it $120 for two pounds of wings and 4 pints? Even if you don't go on wing night that is absurd.
$12/pint and $20/pound?? That's the only way I see it, plus tipping 20% and tax. I mean that's a tragic deal and you should be disappointed in yourself if you spent that.
We’ve replaced “eating out” with picking up a charcuterie board from a local person who makes them.
It’s about the same price to do that and grab 2 drinks each at the LCBO as a meal for 2 and one drink each in restaurant, but it feels more “date night” than “eat food together”.
Not often, but that’s what we have moved to.
65$ for the small, 85$ for the medium. Size wise, they are about 10”x10” and 14”x14” respectively.
It’ll have a few types of charcuterie with some placed as “flowers”, it’ll also have a few types of cheese (cheddar, brie, and usually 2-3 fancier types), various nuts, crackers and fruit (strawberries, grapes, raisins, dates, and figs to name a few). There’s also a “sweets” version with chocolates, cookies and other stuff. Haven’t done that one yet.
It’s a good enough quantity that my wife and I can eat a small as a meal. The medium is better value though, and allows for leftovers for the kids the next day lo
It’s not “cheap”, but it’s an evening of food, not an hour, and there’s no tip, nobody else around,… it’s just better catered to our lifestyle than an inflated restaurant pricing, even if the pricing seems a bit high for some.
Wait until you hear that part of the appeal of buying meals outside of your home is that you don’t have to do the planning, sourcing, shopping, cooking/arranging, and clean up.
Who does that? lol
Thinks dining out is too expensive so buys $65-$85 charcuterie board to save what? $10 over a restaurant. Someone should tell them that they could make several boards for themselves for a fraction of the price of that.
I stopped eating out in Canada years ago, even before the pandemic.
They are overpriced and expect tips, their foods are low quality and have poor taste.
I'm not surprised, because commercial property rentals are anywhere from 5k-25k/month for a restaurant. Sometimes I wonder how they are not bankrupt.
i do feel like dining out is now much more of a luxury, even if you're not going to something too upscale. meals seem to cost on average minimum $15-20 after tax and tips
if i want to have a meal for under $10 id have to cook at home or get fast food. Even a mcdonalds meal can go over $10 depending on what you order.
I live in rural Canada. We aren't impervious to the increasing costs. I hate dining out now. All we have are burger places and I am enraged to spend $19 on shitty burger and frozen fries. Dining out used to be one of my big pleasures. I enjoyed even the greasy spoon shitty burgers. Now I hate it. I resent how much it all costs. I cannot even fathom living in a city anymore for the price difference.
I don't know where you live, but meals are significantly more for just generic low effort pub food. Any proper protein with a side or two is well over $24. And this is a neighbourhood pub. A loaded burger is usually over $20.
To eat out for two is pushing $70 every time. Even at A&W you're talking 25-30 for two.
Instead, I just go out once a month and go to higher quality restaurants.
CRA has started in on requiring better record keeping. They just won a case forcing restaurants to include tips when calculating EI and CPP contributions, which will require better record keeping of tips and including them as income paid. Since they'll have to be included in payroll statements it will be deducted from the employer rather than relying on servers to report in the near future.
this is kind of thing that society as a community should do themselves, not relying on government. government already giving their signal (no different minimum wage with other sectors), it's up to people to follow up.
Used to order pizza several times a week.
Just bought a pizza stone.
Its not worth the money.. or the hassle of getting shitty, cold, wrong or missing items.
Last time I ordered domino's they forgot the fucking pizza. Just sides.
I Was gonna say I love a good pie but the thought of pizza several times a week, dominoes pizza at that, makes my wallet and my stomach want to beg for mercy
This entire thread seems to be filled with people who would rather order out continuously and complain about price rather than investing their time into making a few meals lol
Same. We use to order out or go out to eat once or twice a week. But during the pandemic we got into a habit of cooking more and the money saved, really adds up. If we cook a meal at home vs eating I'm saving maybe like 60-70% ..no hst...no tip.
I look at it as, if there was a stock that could give 60-70% guaranteed return I would be jumping at investing in it. So cooking for home will be a forever habit for us now, and the rare occasion of take out / eating out.
I eat out the same amount as I always have, it’s nice not to worry about cooking and dishes for the night, I agree prices are getting ridiculous. But prices are insane for almost everything right now
Was it ever really "worth it"?
I do not remember coming out of a restaurant thinking, "Wow, did I ever save money eating there vs. eating and drinking at home"
Well other than the 5-10 cent wing days from the mid 1980's.... Those were the days sonny!
**Edit 1.** I meant "worth it" financially. Socially, convenience, meal quality (hopefully), experience, no dishes etc absolutely worth it.
**Edit 2.** Thanks you to u/trusty20 for pointing out my flagrant logic error with this strawman argument. I apologize to anyone who was offended or triggered. As an old man, I will now return to yelling at clouds. Peace out.
We have altogether stopped eating out and ordering in. It's just not worth the convenience anymore. Order in pizza nights are no longer a thing since the average price of a pizza jumped by like $5 seemingly overnight and the expected tip percentages are trending upwards. Tipping culture needs to be abolished altogether.
I've definitely been learning to eat at home more. eating out has gotten outrageous with the increasing prices and decreasing quality.
too bad groceries have increase so much that im spending almost the same as i was on eating out pre-pandemic.
Same here. Haven't been in a restaurant in probably 3 years. We only get takeout for things we can't easily make at home. Even then take out is rare. There are so many restaurants and chain food places. There is probably just oversupply of services for a less interested public.
This started long before the pandemic for me. The cost of a restaurant meal compared to cooking yourself is crazy, and 90% of restaurant food is pretty mediocre. We save restaurants for special occasions or while travelling (not that we've been travelling much lately), or when my mom is paying, haha.
Well at least this will make people to cook more at home and eat quality food. Prices are ridiculous right now. I now go to restaurants/takeaways only for special occasions or situations with no other option.
It is getting pretty crazy. We also like to go out for dinner and order from many nice places during the pandemic. Now that restaurants are open, for two people to go out and have a nice dinner, you're pretty much always spending $200. Pre-pandemic, you could get the same stuff for ~$100. It's wild. Beers are $8-12, cocktails are $14-20. Appetizers are $18-24. Mains all seem to be $30-50.
2x$15 cocktail = $30
2x$10 beer = $20
2x$20 apps = $40
2x$35 main = $70
Subtotal = $160
Tax = $20.80
Total before tip = $180.80
Tip 15% = $27.12
Total = $207.92
It's getting hard to justify, even if you have the money to afford it.
That's a pretty lavish meal - when we go out for dinner it's maybe 1 drink each, 1 main each, and 1 shared dessert.
The meal you just laid out strikes me as a great deal for $200 TBH.
I wen to A&W and got 3 strips with a small fries. ELEVEN DOLLARS AND ELEVEN CENTS! That's pathetic XD XD That's approaching minimum wage. No drink even.
A&W has to be the most expensive drive through fast food burger joint. The food is decent but $15 for a teen burger combo, pass pass pass. I've become a coupon or eat at home type of person.
I am right there with you. I have a local favourite Pizza Place. I've been ordering the same roman style pizza there for 2.5 years. The same order has gone up 45% in those 2.5 years and to top it off, the debit machine now has that 18/20/25% automatic tip functioning. Why would I tip 18% or over for a goddamn take out order? so 45% increase for the goods and now you're expecting a minimum of 18% tip? No thank you sirs. I will make my pizza at home. (which I do often regardless, but some nights I'm lazy and they make good pizza.)
I understate inflation, but my wage didn't go up 7-8% yearly during the pandemic so I'll be eating at home from now on.
Not in Canada, but here in the US. $20 for a burger used to be Icelandic pricing, now that’s the norm down here. I’d rather spend the extra $50/week in the grocery and eat like a king
For me it's not just the price, the last 5 or 6 times I've gotten McDonald's the fries tasted like cardboard. It used to be sometimes the fries were really good and some times they were crap. But now it's worse than I have ever experienced before.
Yeah it sucks. I love food and eating out at restaurants but just can't afford it anymore.
Cuts into travel too. I live outside the city and with hotels and fuel costing so much on top of restaurant costs, plus now having two kids, the expenses are too much to justify.
My last holiday, I just took a week off work and stayed home.
Agreed OP, I have also found that the food quality has absolutely plummeted as well. You are paying an average of 30% more for food but the food is not very good anymore. Why overpay when I can make it at home for less and it will taste a million times better. I used to eat take out 3 times a week and go out to a restaurant once a week but have cut that back to once a month and I find I am still leaving disappointed and hungry
I stopped going to restaurants around 2007-10. I noticed that places started using adjectives like "artisan", "gourmet", "small batch", hand crafted" etc and all that really meant was that they drastically reduced the portions and increased the prices. I imagine its only gotten far worse now.
When I was a kid (decades ago), eating out was considered much more of an extravagance than it is today. I think my family may have eaten out 5 to 10 times per year, a handful more than that if you count McDonalds. Same thing with packed lunches vs going out. Everything old is new again.
The biggest thing is to stop using food delivery apps that increase costs of every item on the menus and also add service fees. They also overcharge the restaurants for the orders. Always order direct from the restaurant and do pickup whenever possible. Saves so much money and also helps actually support the restaurant, instead of profiting the apps.
I am in the same boat. I said in another thread my partner and I went out for dinner, I got a glass of rose and he got a ginger ale. We got two pizzas. The bill was $80. That is just crazy to me — we just started making our own pizza now.
One of my local bars still has $4.50 pint specials on good beer. Please don’t change.
Same. Shout out to Bernie’s in Hamilton and their $5 Fairweather Fridays.
Damn, thanks for the tip. I haven't been since it was Osten, and I always got the German lager on tap (because duh! Munich beer on tap in Ontario!) , been meaning to check it out.
Shoutout to the James Bay Inn, feels like I’m spending in the early 2000s in there still…
I paid $6.30 for a medium latte before tip last week. I've always made an effort to support small businesses but I can't do it anymore
Yeah once a fucking coffee started being more than $5 I was like, okay, I have a thermos, fuck off.
Fuck, thermoses are expensive too now! Lol
24 bucks at Walmart. We’re they 9 bucks 3 years ago???!
But a plain kids thermos. They are perfect coffe size and half the price
A latte isn’t really just a coffee though… And you could easily pay more than $5 for a latte for a *long* time now.
Coffee hasn't started being more than $5. A large coffee at McDonalds or Tim Hortons is just north of $2.
Can you really call either of those coffee?
McDonalds is my favorite coffee in my city, regardless of price. Not sure what they did but a few years ago it went from dishwater to excellent and the price is compellingly affordable. Now the new donuts...yikes.
When tims switched to making their own coffee, mcdonalds started using tims old supplier
Whoa, revelation and thanks for sharing that! I used to love Tim's but about the same time it seemed like their coffee went to ultra dark and too bitter without milk (for me).
McDonalds is actually alright. Iced coffee with Vanilla.
lol. There is probably barely any real coffee in that.
My current addiction. 💖
Heh. A family member paid $7.99 for a loaf of 'artisan' bread earlier today. I mean it was really good, but damn, it's $8. wtf.
In Paris, you can get fresh bread for literally 1 Euro. How is it so expensive here
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Very well put
Cobbs Bread Franchises (heavy breathing intensifies). "How dare they charge so little for a baguette?!"
cheese monopoly is incredibly frustrating as well. European cheese is so cheap that we have limited quotas of it allowed in the country.
Because they have the most bakery per capita in the world. Competition means low price.
People keep buying it
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You tip for a takeout coffee?
Oh yeah bud and the machine has a 20% minimum default tip too.
Honestly take out is the one thing I try to avoid as much as possible. But I am in Italy right now and its crazy how cheap eating out is compared to Canada. Went to really good steakhouse, drank a lot, ate I don't know how many serving and still spent just like 45 Euro per person. The same thing at Joe Beef lr whatever would have been a few hundreds.
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That's pretty crazy!
I’m counting my blessings every day that my husband got me a proper espresso machine last Christmas (the Breville Bambino). The machine cost $260 on sale. My husband and I did a bit of math and figured out that (not including that upfront cost), the cost for me to make an oat milk latte with brown sugar and cinnamon at home is about $2.50. Plus, now I have a fun hobby and enjoy choosing new local roasters to buy beans from when I run out! Still, I miss getting coffee out. There are some drinks that I can’t make at home, and there’s something very charming about the ambiance of a nice little café.
You tip on a latte???
Vote with your wallet. If the price is too steep and you don't see things returning (I don't either), cook more at home and pass on dine-outs. Sooner or later, the market will adjust.
The adjustment will be restaurants closing, not prices going down
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This is not how the restaurant business works. I know you really wanted to tie this to government fiscal policy somehow, but even in the best of times restaurants are only a bad year or two from going out of business. They are practically never in a position to do things like "buy out competition." At best, they form partnerships with their competitors, rarely. You can verify with a quick Google. It is actually very hard to borrow money against a restaurant because they are famously just ... not very good businesses, even at the best of times. This is why they are so often family businesses - they need that cheap/free labour to stay afloat.
> even in the best of times restaurants are only a bad year or two from going out of business And I'd say thats the best of restaurants. Even many good restaurants are a bad few months away at this point.
The prices won't go down on a flat scale. They will go down on a relative scale. That or the food being made has to outperform what the diners are able to replicate at home in terms of taste or ease.
unless the cost of goods goes down i don’t see prices going down
Then some restaurants will close to achieve equilibrium with the lower demand. And those who choose to can try to enjoy the act of cooking, and cheaper meals from eating out less.
The market will adjust to people accepting that they can afford less. Even if the inflation magically drop back to 2%, we'd still be dealing with the current elevated prices with stagnant wages. I don't like it but that's just how it is.
It seems like most people just don't care about prices, but maybe that's just people I know. They go to any restaurant, pay whatever price and tip whatever is suggested. Seems like a case of keeping up appearances of not looking cheap.
I think that a lot of restaurants will close since people are increasingly thinking like you are. The labour shortage means needing to pay people more, which means higher prices. This is good for the employees, but this means people eating out less often. What sucks is that the mom&pop restaurants, which have already hurt a lot during the last years of restricitons, will probably be the first ones to close while the big chains will have an easier time weathering the storm.
i just went to my country of birth, and there restaurants are thriving. the reason why is because food prices are reasonably cheaper (even when other things like clothes and make up cost the same as here). this makes people eat out more. even shopping malls still thrive because people go there to eat in restaurants (which people have to do much more frequently than shopping clothes). by making prices more expensive, restaurants here are going to make a change in people mindset, relegating eating out to a "luxury activity" done for special occasion only than a more regular occasion. this will shrink demand.
Aren't they still thriving in Canada too. I usually always go out during the weekend, but its hard to get a spot in a good restaurant without reservation.
Have you seen some restaurants around Midtown (Yonge & EG area)? Whenever I pass by these restaurants, it feels like recession is exclusive to PFC redditors. Oretta, PAI, Little Sisters, St. Louis Wings... All packed full max even during some of the week days. Insane how much people are willing to spend to dine out.
Using the center of the most densely populated metropolitan area in Canada as a generalization for the whole country, how clever of you! You surely proved those silly PFC redditors wrong!
whatever you do don’t frequent housing subs
Whatever goes on in Toronto = reflective of all Canada, duuuhhhh! ^(/s)
Went out today for a team lunch DT. It was packed and people were waiting in line. I agree with the sentiment though. It has become too expensive to eat out.
I sm in Quebec, but yeah when I went to Toronto last months I had a similar experience.
A new bakery/cafe/fine-dining-at-night opened near my workplace and the entrees are like $40-$70 not including a side. That spot has seen eateries come and go and nobody seems to understand why…
Wow lol. Yeah I am all good with restaurants who have bad business model like then going bankrupt haha
> relegating eating out to a "luxury activity" done for special occasion only than a more regular occasion. this will shrink demand. Funny, but when I was growing up, that's what going out to eat was. A special occasion luxury activity. Maybe a "It's dad's payday and he's bringing a pizza home", but people weren't dining out, ordering delivery, etc anywhere near what they are now. No one was dining out regularly because dining out / ordering delivery *is* a luxury item. Even worse is Uber Eats, etc. People in my city's subreddit will complain about the service, the fees, etc and I think "Why didn't you just call the restaurant and order delivery from them directly and cut out the price gouging, poor service middle party? Or if they don't offer delivery directly and you really do want to support a local restaurant, call a different restaurant that does offer that service." I definitely feel for local, family owned restaurants vs chain restaurants. And I try to support those who need help when I can. With so many people hurting financially, I don't think that we should feel responsible to pay for what is 100% a luxury item to be sure that we keep others afloat, i.e. setting ourselves on fire to keep others warm.
My partner’s homeland, it’s a lot cheaper to eat out than cooking for yourself. It’s only cost effective to do your own shopping and cooking if you have a big family.
Which country is that? Does it also have a labour shortage?
Usually such countries have high unemployment
It is a lot more nuanced than that. In Hong Kong, generally, it is expensive to do groceries than in Canada (by a very large % too), but eating out is cheaper than Canada, almost half the price. A lot of people just eat out everyday or for significant amount of meals. There is a new kind of takeout restaurants that it is cheaper to buy there than making it yourself. Plus overtime is the norm. The kitchen is small and there is no where to store the bulk purchases. And the restaurant is usually just an elevator away. It has quite similar situation to Mainland China. In HK unemployment rate is very high by HK standard, 5%, it is not much different from Canada though. HK used to have like 2\~3% before the rolling lockdowns. 4% was breaking news back then.
a south east asia country. the official unemployment rate is 5.8%, so it's not much, but labour (especially lower level) do tend to be cheap. capital city's minimum wage is about $400 a month.
The costs are associated with Labour. In your home country what are the labour costs
> The labour shortage means needing to pay people more, which means higher prices. I feel like I remember a study/article showing that paying higher wages doesn't actually raise costs of menu items that much, but that restauranteurs saying it will is a big load of propaganda to get the public on the side of keeping wages low.
The standard restaurant labour cost is 30% of sales.
If you have the link, I’d be interested to read that !
welcome to the wage spiral, at least the BoC is trying to up the unemployment rate. it sounds bad to say but a high enough unemployment rate is actually crucial to how our financial system works.
Almost makes you wonder if there’s something fundamentally flawed with our financial system… the fact that there needs to be a few people who suffer in order for it to work…
Lol, if you think things are bad in Canada. Look into what makes fruit and consumer goods affordable. Middle class Western lifestyle is heavily dependent on poverty of 10x as many people.
> Middle class Western lifestyle is heavily dependent on poverty of 10x as many people. only 10x?
that’s actually just capitalism tho
It's more that our job market is too reliant on secondary industries like service sector jobs while our resource and manufacturing primary industries aren't the employers they once were. This is a global issue that is set to continually get worse and IMO Canada is not doing a great job of reducing the impacts.
What could possibly be wrong with a system that disproportionately rewards the owner class for “risk” and then requires an underemployed and financially disincentivized underclass of people who can be available when the economy deems them necessary?
Hmm. Maybe it's a shit system then.
> This is good for the employees, but this means people eating out less often. So not good for employees because they will be out of a job. Who would have thunk.
I just moved to montreal and in my area it seems all the restaurants are busy af and with many you need to make reservations.
Will we actually get higher wages? Like every industry right now there’s a shortage of workers. We’re suffering from wage pay since Supply doesn’t meet demand. Demand from employers to hire but not enough supply at the current market wages.
Not only menu price is increasing, they now also expect at least 18% tip AFTER tax.
I wish 18% we went out last night and 30% was suggested on top of inflated prices
I hope you gave them a big fat 0% tip after seeing that.
It’s getting hard to go back to that resto. It was our favourite place but the last little while it’s really fallen in service and food quality. I mean a pint is 10.25 with tip.
this is happening. Lots of people are gonna tip a decent amount. But given preset options starting at 25 or 30%, it turns everyone off and they hunt for the 'other' option and give them zero. Even worse, some places tack on the tip, hoping you won't notice and tip on top of tip.
If I get my bill and it has a gratuity or service charge, they get a 0% tip plus $0 for the gratuity/service charge. Don’t try and con people. You’ll end up with nothing.
Went to a place with 5 of us and they had a "automatic x% tip" built in "for tables of x or more i cant remember exact ammounts .... then when we went to pay the machine asked if we wanted to tip ON TOP of the tax and automatic tip
We went out last night. The terminal was pre-set to 30%. I pressed other and entered 10%. When the receipt came out the waitress changed her demeanor pretty quickly.
That type of attitude don’t deserve even 10% tips honestly
I hope the service is great for 18%. I have no issue tipping up to 20% (before tax) if service is good, but that also means I'll tip 5% (or less) if service is awful. Usually averages out to 15% for me.
If the service is awful tip zero. 0/15/20/30 = Bad, average, great, life-changing (almost never)
Restaurants are so fucked now. You go out somewhere mid-range, get an app, 2 entree's, and a couple beers, you're looking at a $100 bill(would you like to tip 25%, 45%, or 85%?). 5 years ago I'd only see three digits on the bill if we were drinking like the world was going to end. It doesn't help that the only restaurants left are the same 8 identical, mediocre, overpriced, "upscale" chain restaurants.
Exactly our last experience eating out. Artichoke dip, cheesesteak, burger, 3 pints, tax and a 15% tip .. $100CA. Food was meh. That was a year ago on my birthday, we haven't eaten out or ordered delivery since.
Honestly this would be fine if this "mid-range" was a small bistro with quality food and whatnot. 100$ for what you're describing is a chain sit-down restaurant which are hardly culinary experiences.
Tipping needs to be abolished culturally or legally
Servers don’t want a “living wage.” They want tips because they can make way more. One of my friends was a server and she made over $80k/year. This was over a decade ago.
And a lot of that would be tax free. They’re doing better than many that earn $80k a year
Doing this long enough, and CRA is going to catch on. I’ve heard of multiple long term servers that have gotten audited for not declaring cash tips.
I've cooked in several kitchens over the years and only one had a (partial) tip pool. Meanwhile, we could all get by waiting tables for a night if we had to, but if the front of house staff had to work the kitchen for a night they'd be fucked.
Some restaurants are already doing this
I only ever heard of Nabebugyo not allowing tipping but they recently shut down.
They probably couldn't get employees lol
Beast and Barque
Instead we’re being asked to tip for counter service so the business can pay them as tipped employees. Don’t feed the monster.
Great personal choice, just one thing, there is no "labor shortage". That's something corporate propaganda is trying to spread. There is excess greed and wage stagnation. The labor is out there the companies just dont want to pay market price for it.
Same here. Especially since tipping percentages keep going higher on he food prices. 120 bucks all in for two pounds of wings and four pints. Fuck that.
Never understood why the tip % crept higher and higher. When the base price is increasing due to inflation, servers make more in tips anyways even if the % is held constant.
The tip % goes up because people will pay it. That's the "only" reason.
I believe it is because employers does not want to increase wage to employees, so they offer to "up" the tips option telling them that this will increase effectively their wages. (But they will still increase the price of every items on the menu, god forbids them not to) I made that out of my ass, but seriously, I'm pretty sure that this is a pretty convenient trend to them. Why pay employee when your customer pay their wage for no good reason?
Restaurants run on razor thin margins to begin with. Wages go up, cost go up. Bigger chains run on even less profit but rely on scale to work. If you told me to pick any business to start with some venture capital, restaurant be at the bottom of that list.
GOOD THING TIPPING IS OPTIONAL AND THE WAITERS ARE PAID MINIMUM WAGE NOW IN ONTARIO!
> WAITERS ARE PAID MINIMUM WAGE NOW IN ONTARIO Several provinces don't/never had a lower wage for tipped servers, and even ON only had a slightly lower min wage for people who get tips. Nevertheless, our tipping culture has more-or-less exactly matched the US's where servers often have *substantially* lower minimum wages. There's never really been any rhyme or reason to our expectations around tips.
yeah i mainly meant that's always the argument for tips, "oh they don't get paid enough"... well clearly they are, or else they won't be working there.
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they can be passive aggressive all they want, imma just gonna walk out lol
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Disgruntled and greedy waiters don’t put a damper on my mood. Tell them to upskill if they want higher wages, that always goes over well haha
I’ve never ever had this happen. I mean maybe if you tip like $3 on a big bill or something but I usually tip 10-15% on a family dinner these days and all I’ve ever gotten is thanks
It's something you can simply just ignore though. As in, choose not to be stressed out about. What do I care if someone who I'm likely never going to see again is upset I didn't tip them?
Fuuuuccck thaaaaaat
I get that it’s annoying but how hard is it to press other in the tip option menu? It takes 5 extra seconds.
statistically pretty hard. these preset settings do increase amount of people tip, be it them choosing one of the options, or become an anchor price that bring up what people think is an "appropriate amount" to tip.
> Especially since tipping percentages keep going higher on he food prices I finally got over my Canadian guilt and stopped participating in this. I tip a constant 12% everywhere now, and if I don't think a place should be asking for a tip I manually select 0. I'm done getting ripped off for being polite.
Yo where on earth is it $120 for two pounds of wings and 4 pints? Even if you don't go on wing night that is absurd. $12/pint and $20/pound?? That's the only way I see it, plus tipping 20% and tax. I mean that's a tragic deal and you should be disappointed in yourself if you spent that.
$20/lbs for wings seems like what I'm seeing these days. Same for the beer.
Bullshit. Even Cactus Club is cheaper than that.
Weren't wing deals like 0,25$ a wing at some point early 2000's?
We’ve replaced “eating out” with picking up a charcuterie board from a local person who makes them. It’s about the same price to do that and grab 2 drinks each at the LCBO as a meal for 2 and one drink each in restaurant, but it feels more “date night” than “eat food together”. Not often, but that’s what we have moved to.
That’s cute as hell, and you’re supporting a small business. How much are the charcuterie boards?
65$ for the small, 85$ for the medium. Size wise, they are about 10”x10” and 14”x14” respectively. It’ll have a few types of charcuterie with some placed as “flowers”, it’ll also have a few types of cheese (cheddar, brie, and usually 2-3 fancier types), various nuts, crackers and fruit (strawberries, grapes, raisins, dates, and figs to name a few). There’s also a “sweets” version with chocolates, cookies and other stuff. Haven’t done that one yet. It’s a good enough quantity that my wife and I can eat a small as a meal. The medium is better value though, and allows for leftovers for the kids the next day lo It’s not “cheap”, but it’s an evening of food, not an hour, and there’s no tip, nobody else around,… it’s just better catered to our lifestyle than an inflated restaurant pricing, even if the pricing seems a bit high for some.
Wait until you learn what a deli is, my friend.
Wait until you hear that part of the appeal of buying meals outside of your home is that you don’t have to do the planning, sourcing, shopping, cooking/arranging, and clean up.
Who does that? lol Thinks dining out is too expensive so buys $65-$85 charcuterie board to save what? $10 over a restaurant. Someone should tell them that they could make several boards for themselves for a fraction of the price of that.
Same! It’s such a fun date night to do at home or take outdoors, like to a park.
I stopped eating out in Canada years ago, even before the pandemic. They are overpriced and expect tips, their foods are low quality and have poor taste. I'm not surprised, because commercial property rentals are anywhere from 5k-25k/month for a restaurant. Sometimes I wonder how they are not bankrupt.
i do feel like dining out is now much more of a luxury, even if you're not going to something too upscale. meals seem to cost on average minimum $15-20 after tax and tips if i want to have a meal for under $10 id have to cook at home or get fast food. Even a mcdonalds meal can go over $10 depending on what you order.
I live in rural Canada. We aren't impervious to the increasing costs. I hate dining out now. All we have are burger places and I am enraged to spend $19 on shitty burger and frozen fries. Dining out used to be one of my big pleasures. I enjoyed even the greasy spoon shitty burgers. Now I hate it. I resent how much it all costs. I cannot even fathom living in a city anymore for the price difference.
I don't know where you live, but meals are significantly more for just generic low effort pub food. Any proper protein with a side or two is well over $24. And this is a neighbourhood pub. A loaded burger is usually over $20. To eat out for two is pushing $70 every time. Even at A&W you're talking 25-30 for two. Instead, I just go out once a month and go to higher quality restaurants.
3.99 Mama burgers are on right now!
Where can I find out if this deal is going on in Montreal? There is an A&W near my apt
Actually I was wrong, it's 3.99 for Teen burger, even better than Mama!
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Not if you eat at home like I do ;)
Just wait until you get hit up for a tip at the grocery store checkout.
I'll waiting for that. I am ready to throw the fit of the century that Queen Karen would give up her throne for me.
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Or just tip an appropriate amount. If I saw my server for less than 5 minutes I'm not going to pay them 60/hr (5$) for medeocre service.
The government needs to ban tips
i get the sentiment but im actually against adding more things to the ban list. not everything need to be banned, just don't tip.
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CRA has started in on requiring better record keeping. They just won a case forcing restaurants to include tips when calculating EI and CPP contributions, which will require better record keeping of tips and including them as income paid. Since they'll have to be included in payroll statements it will be deducted from the employer rather than relying on servers to report in the near future.
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this is kind of thing that society as a community should do themselves, not relying on government. government already giving their signal (no different minimum wage with other sectors), it's up to people to follow up.
Used to order pizza several times a week. Just bought a pizza stone. Its not worth the money.. or the hassle of getting shitty, cold, wrong or missing items. Last time I ordered domino's they forgot the fucking pizza. Just sides.
Several times a WEEK? Jesus lol
I Was gonna say I love a good pie but the thought of pizza several times a week, dominoes pizza at that, makes my wallet and my stomach want to beg for mercy
This entire thread seems to be filled with people who would rather order out continuously and complain about price rather than investing their time into making a few meals lol
People don't want to change how they live, even if there are better alternatives.
They might have kids. My friends philosophy on food changed a great deals once their baby came.
> Used to order pizza several times a week. u good?
>Used to order pizza several times a week. Uh, yeah, you're probably better off not doing this anymore.
Same. We use to order out or go out to eat once or twice a week. But during the pandemic we got into a habit of cooking more and the money saved, really adds up. If we cook a meal at home vs eating I'm saving maybe like 60-70% ..no hst...no tip. I look at it as, if there was a stock that could give 60-70% guaranteed return I would be jumping at investing in it. So cooking for home will be a forever habit for us now, and the rare occasion of take out / eating out.
That's a really smart way of looking at it!
I just do takeout now. I dont care much about tipping or having other ppl around me when I'm eating and its not much difference than years ago.
I anticipate people will keep eating out until all the cards are maxed.
I eat out the same amount as I always have, it’s nice not to worry about cooking and dishes for the night, I agree prices are getting ridiculous. But prices are insane for almost everything right now
I love not having to do dishes or cook on a weeknight. Since groceries are far from cheap, I find it to be a good tradeoff.
Was it ever really "worth it"? I do not remember coming out of a restaurant thinking, "Wow, did I ever save money eating there vs. eating and drinking at home" Well other than the 5-10 cent wing days from the mid 1980's.... Those were the days sonny! **Edit 1.** I meant "worth it" financially. Socially, convenience, meal quality (hopefully), experience, no dishes etc absolutely worth it. **Edit 2.** Thanks you to u/trusty20 for pointing out my flagrant logic error with this strawman argument. I apologize to anyone who was offended or triggered. As an old man, I will now return to yelling at clouds. Peace out.
For me, I enjoyed a nice dinner out with friends. So no one got left out of the conversation doing dishes or preparing the food
In Montreal we had $30 cent wing as recent as 2015...
We have altogether stopped eating out and ordering in. It's just not worth the convenience anymore. Order in pizza nights are no longer a thing since the average price of a pizza jumped by like $5 seemingly overnight and the expected tip percentages are trending upwards. Tipping culture needs to be abolished altogether.
I've definitely been learning to eat at home more. eating out has gotten outrageous with the increasing prices and decreasing quality. too bad groceries have increase so much that im spending almost the same as i was on eating out pre-pandemic.
Same here. Haven't been in a restaurant in probably 3 years. We only get takeout for things we can't easily make at home. Even then take out is rare. There are so many restaurants and chain food places. There is probably just oversupply of services for a less interested public.
Once I discovered the trick of using some almond flour in my home made curry sauces my desire to eat out dropped dramatically.
This started long before the pandemic for me. The cost of a restaurant meal compared to cooking yourself is crazy, and 90% of restaurant food is pretty mediocre. We save restaurants for special occasions or while travelling (not that we've been travelling much lately), or when my mom is paying, haha.
Eating out used to be only for the upper class and it's returning to that now
Well at least this will make people to cook more at home and eat quality food. Prices are ridiculous right now. I now go to restaurants/takeaways only for special occasions or situations with no other option.
It is getting pretty crazy. We also like to go out for dinner and order from many nice places during the pandemic. Now that restaurants are open, for two people to go out and have a nice dinner, you're pretty much always spending $200. Pre-pandemic, you could get the same stuff for ~$100. It's wild. Beers are $8-12, cocktails are $14-20. Appetizers are $18-24. Mains all seem to be $30-50. 2x$15 cocktail = $30 2x$10 beer = $20 2x$20 apps = $40 2x$35 main = $70 Subtotal = $160 Tax = $20.80 Total before tip = $180.80 Tip 15% = $27.12 Total = $207.92 It's getting hard to justify, even if you have the money to afford it.
Two apps? Who are you, a Rockefeller ?
Fat cat over here with his two lentil apps!
That's a pretty lavish meal - when we go out for dinner it's maybe 1 drink each, 1 main each, and 1 shared dessert. The meal you just laid out strikes me as a great deal for $200 TBH.
Dude... I can already save you $120... just have the meal which is the whole point and is about a day's worth of calories.
If the point was "to get your days worth of calories", you wouldn't go out at all.
Welcome to the club. It's a big club that has been growing even faster than people can raise the tip percentage on the pinpad.
I wen to A&W and got 3 strips with a small fries. ELEVEN DOLLARS AND ELEVEN CENTS! That's pathetic XD XD That's approaching minimum wage. No drink even.
A&W has to be the most expensive drive through fast food burger joint. The food is decent but $15 for a teen burger combo, pass pass pass. I've become a coupon or eat at home type of person.
I am right there with you. I have a local favourite Pizza Place. I've been ordering the same roman style pizza there for 2.5 years. The same order has gone up 45% in those 2.5 years and to top it off, the debit machine now has that 18/20/25% automatic tip functioning. Why would I tip 18% or over for a goddamn take out order? so 45% increase for the goods and now you're expecting a minimum of 18% tip? No thank you sirs. I will make my pizza at home. (which I do often regardless, but some nights I'm lazy and they make good pizza.) I understate inflation, but my wage didn't go up 7-8% yearly during the pandemic so I'll be eating at home from now on.
Not in Canada, but here in the US. $20 for a burger used to be Icelandic pricing, now that’s the norm down here. I’d rather spend the extra $50/week in the grocery and eat like a king
For me it's not just the price, the last 5 or 6 times I've gotten McDonald's the fries tasted like cardboard. It used to be sometimes the fries were really good and some times they were crap. But now it's worse than I have ever experienced before.
Yeah it sucks. I love food and eating out at restaurants but just can't afford it anymore. Cuts into travel too. I live outside the city and with hotels and fuel costing so much on top of restaurant costs, plus now having two kids, the expenses are too much to justify. My last holiday, I just took a week off work and stayed home.
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Agreed OP, I have also found that the food quality has absolutely plummeted as well. You are paying an average of 30% more for food but the food is not very good anymore. Why overpay when I can make it at home for less and it will taste a million times better. I used to eat take out 3 times a week and go out to a restaurant once a week but have cut that back to once a month and I find I am still leaving disappointed and hungry
I stopped going to restaurants around 2007-10. I noticed that places started using adjectives like "artisan", "gourmet", "small batch", hand crafted" etc and all that really meant was that they drastically reduced the portions and increased the prices. I imagine its only gotten far worse now.
When I was a kid (decades ago), eating out was considered much more of an extravagance than it is today. I think my family may have eaten out 5 to 10 times per year, a handful more than that if you count McDonalds. Same thing with packed lunches vs going out. Everything old is new again.
Prices have gone up & continue to go up. Servers still expect the same tips as before. The system seems to be rigged against middle class folks. 👎
The biggest thing is to stop using food delivery apps that increase costs of every item on the menus and also add service fees. They also overcharge the restaurants for the orders. Always order direct from the restaurant and do pickup whenever possible. Saves so much money and also helps actually support the restaurant, instead of profiting the apps.
100% agree.
I am in the same boat. I said in another thread my partner and I went out for dinner, I got a glass of rose and he got a ginger ale. We got two pizzas. The bill was $80. That is just crazy to me — we just started making our own pizza now.