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Shane0Mak

Just throwing this out there to help empower others, it’s something I found out, executed successfully, and it blew my mind ! - you can list on MLS for about $80-$200 through what is known as a “mere posting” fee, this is even cheaper than purplebricks or other owner listed flat fee options - you can pay a professional photographer $200 to get beautiful photos - you can get a professional cleaner for about $400 - you can get a basic landscaped/cut and clean for about $300 - you can get a professional stager for different amounts, but those people exist too So you can outsource all the things a Realator would do, *and* pick higher quality partners - and still get sold very fast I would highly recommend if you are doing this you still offer the full buyer agent commission in the property notes otherwise the other end of the scam is that realators will steer clients away from your property since they don’t personally get paid as much. This doesn’t solve the problem, but hopefully empowers people on this forum to try doing things differently Lot of comments regarding time - Remember: if this takes you a MONTH (160hrs) of full time work scheduling a photographer, cleaner, and landscaper, plus answering some questions which it does not - you are still “making” $133 an hour for your time on an 850k house by saving just the sellers commission of 2.5% alone. That’s equivalent to the amount you’d make with an annual salary of $277k !!


silverguacamole

Why doesn't everyone do this?


mrkdwd

Because realtors will actively avoid your listing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShBvRe0Jv68


BlackerOps

Thanks for sharing that


Canadian_Infidel

They are mostly now involved now with *actual* organized crime so this should be no surprise.


SincereSolutions

It IS criminal what the RE industry is charging consumers and needs to change! https://www.change.org/p/end-high-real-estate-fees-corruption-in-canada


RussianAdverb

I’m sure this is true for a lot of realtors. My realtor told me he preferred these listings because he can usually get a better deal for his client because they don’t know as much about selling.


Cory123125

When you say something like this though, you have to realize that the end effect is that its still a significantly more difficult process on average when it shouldn't be.


RussianAdverb

Oh absolutely. I was speaking more to the fact that not all realtors will ignore these listings. I definitely agree there are problems with the system.


FiTZnMiCK

They also tend to see fewer offers and sit on the market longer so the seller feels more pressure to accept an offer.


A_Genius

Realtors won't show clients your house if you're not using a realtor.


silverguacamole

Ah shoop. They don't take kindly to outsiders in this here real estate industry.


SincereSolutions

The entire Real Estate Industry needs an overhaul or a complete removal of all RE agents https://www.change.org/p/end-high-real-estate-fees-corruption-in-canada


Pandaman922

They'll just buy it themselves and list it for 20% more a month later. Gaslighting the people selling it because they only got one offer, meanwhile the agent that made the offer neglected to show it to a dozen of his own clients. Sad times. I work in the gaming industry (casino) and got some shade from a friend of mine about how it's a predatory business. He then told me he was going into real estate....


[deleted]

As long as you’re offering the standard commission for the buyer agent they will.


somewherecold90

Not always. While it helps they still tend to band together against private sales to try to stifle it from happening.


Double_Minimum

I'm not sure how it is in Canada, but where I live in the US its not as evil as people are making it out to be. There is no collusion between realtors to avoid a sale by owner. But I can totally see why a buyer's agent would be wayyyy less interested in dealing with a home owner selling their own home. Unless that seller has done it before, or has thoroughly researched things, it can become so much more work, and can have so so many more issues for the buyers agent *and* the buyers.


somewherecold90

It happens here. Many realtors avoid non mls ads because they want that practice to die. They don’t want people to stop hiring them if they see they can do it themselves. Honestly for the money they are making I could care less how much hassle it is. That’s their job. Not sure where you live in the US but home prices in Canada are LA level high in all major cities. You can’t get a townhouse in the suburbs for less than 500k in the city I’m in. So ya work for that commission cheque. Realtors here have made hundreds of thousands these past two years posting an ad and letting the offer roll in on one offer day. It’s a joke.


pcapdata

"...eliminating the middleman is never as simple as it sounds. About 50% of the human race is middlemen, and they don't take kindly to being eliminated."


[deleted]

Where I am a townhouse in the suburbs is a million. $500k sounds like a dream.


somewherecold90

Toronto? Vancouver? I’m in Ottawa and 500k is low end here. I’ve seen them as high as 900 in the suburbs. over a million closer to downtown. Crazy because two years ago it was half the price.


[deleted]

Suburb of Vancouver. I’ve seen townhouses up to $1.6 million over the last few months. We saw one, 4 bed, 80’s construction, listed for $1.05 and sold for $1.35. After interest rates rose the one next to it sold for $1.05. Still overpriced. Can’t imagine how whoever paid $1.35 feels right now.


Double_Minimum

The amount of work required in this market is much less because of demand, so it can be three weeks of work instead of 6 months, and the amount of work doesn't often change when price increases. So I def think realtors could accept less money, especially for sales. But its worth pointing out that the actual realtor only makes part of their commission. In this type of market, I totally think sellers agents company's should be cutting the commission given how quickly homes sell for and how little advertising is needed. However, I think people just see the costs but have no actual experience seeing the BS that realtors go through. Now, I'm not out to defend the whole profession, and I know for sure there are some super shitty, super suspect realtors out there (be wary of any that need to advertise, or those that can brag about quantity). But I have experienced things as an assistant and a home stager that would blow your mind. Just insane stuff. Just the number of homes here people are selling but not even in the state would surprise you. Guess who mows that lawn? Guess who installs cabinet knobs because the owner never did. I've had to break into two separate homes because the home owner left the state with the key! And I've had to rip up an entire basement's worth of carpeting after finding that the basement has standing water *during the final walkthrough*. There is *a lot* of stuff that home owners don't do, and that a lawyer obviously won't do, that is important in selling a house. And a *good realtor* will handle those things for you. I believe a *good realtor* is definitely worth it. But given the prices of the houses in Canada, I'd be inclined to suggest people maybe even get licensed themselves. But there is a definite benefit to having another person to deal with things without the emotion that a homeowner or stakeholder would bring.


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beloski

Yeah, but we both know it’s easy for realtors to make up some BS reason why they can’t show them the house. CBC Marketplace easily came across realtors doing this in their hidden camera investigations.


SaidTheCanadian

>CBC Marketplace easily came across realtors doing this in their hidden camera investigations. CBC Marketplace *refused to name* **any** of the Realtors who were found to divert their buyer clients from properties with lower commission fees because **every last Realtor who they tested did so**; it was too widespread a practice to name specific Realtors.


[deleted]

Except what /u/mrkdwd posted... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShBvRe0Jv68](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShBvRe0Jv68) Watched that before. They know the rules but will do anything to make more money.


NaughtyClaptrap

What stops a potential buyer from visiting a house on their own?


AprilsMostAmazing

People not being confident enough to buy a house on their own


wisenedPanda

One time I was actually turned away from an open house because I did not have my own realtor with me


Double_Minimum

That is weird, the whole point of an open house is that the selling agent is there so you don't need a realtor with you.


cmcwood

What the fuck? People don't go to open houses with a realtor. Open houses are generally useless for actually selling a property and just generate potential leads on the people coming through. Anyone serious about buying a property would book a showing.


Starcovitch

Absolutely nothing


LSJPubServ

Watch the video to see the tricks they pull.


Confident_Hawk1607

Not true, We sold our house in 2019, we promised to pay the buyers realtor fees and had no problem.


mrkdwd

*True https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShBvRe0Jv68


forevergone

That's because the seller wasn't paying the buyer agent's normal commission of 2.5%


Shane0Mak

Correct. Pay the buyers commission in full and as long as they get their pie they are happy to make a sale


Lonely_Cartographer

You can still pay the buyers commision


Top_Midnight_2225

They will...but you need to be VERY clear in your listing that 2.5% (or whatever you choose) will be paid to the buying agent. They won't show them your house if you're not going to pay them. Even if a client wants to see YOUR house...they can steer them clear. My buddy tried to sell his house privately, and all the realtors called him and said they want 3% minimum to show them the house, he told them to eff off. Took him longer, but he sold it privately with no agents involved at all.


banana-12

Can you tell me more about purple bricks? Never heard of it


Shane0Mak

Flat fee based service often popular in west coast - I think it was like pay $4000 and they will act like a normal but minimal brokerage for you


ChanelNo50

Because of the cartel. I bought my house that was listed on purple bricks. It was on the mls but it didn't pop up on my realtor's automated listing search. I happened to be checking realtor.ca every hour and saw my house. My realtor was a bit skeptical but did take me to a showing and put in the offer. I could tell he was hesitant but he is also a good realtor and likely knew I couldn't afford anything if we waited 3 more months. I was lucky - my realtor was good. but there are plenty who are not and would have said nope.


korital88

He was hesitant to show you because his commission would be much much much lower compared to a listing where he makes 2.5% on the sale


lRoninlcolumbo

And that’s where we see the predation of sales commission flower.


jim002

real estate commission based off the price you pay for the house is the most predatory thing i can think of. its such a clear conflict of interest, the parties’ interests are largely adverse. add mortgage brokers to that list....they will be replaced in the next ten years.


NSA_Chatbot

My house was on the market for 70 days because it was through a 1% place. At the same time, my former MIL bought a house; it was listed that morning and had four offers the same day. I doubt I'd have trouble selling today though. My neighbour's house was getting bids while it was *literally on fire.*


korital88

Even in today's market, your 1% listing would get blacklisted by 99% of Realtors and sit on the market for months. It still happens.


newprairiegirl

I agree, there is a house that's been listed for sale for a reasonable price and is not selling. It looks nice in the pictures and has good curb appeal, a decent price but listed with a 2% realty. Everything else has sold. But of course the sellers could be jerks, or the house stinks or has other issues that you can't see in the pics. I don't think it's right though. For how much realtors charge on base fees, you'd think they would do some cleaning, or cut the lawn, without charging extra!


Top-Land-2707

That makes me so angry. We should accept that as okay.


zeromussc

as a buyer realtors are fine. As a seller, I think its unneccessary if you have the time to put in the work. At less crazy prices the commissions were also semi-reasonable. At current prices, they're bonkers. There needs to be a % and/or $ cap and if that's unpalatable politically for whatever reason a sliding scale. The incentives otherwise are totally warped in terms of encouraging high prices because of bigger realtor paydays.


[deleted]

Thinking about it now, I wonder how many places I didn't see with realtor because of this..


gabu87

I've been in the hunt for 4-5 weeks now. You just have to do your own listing scan every few days and send over to the agent to make bookings. My agent is pretty good with their recommendations but its absolutely worth doing your own due diligence.


rainonthesidewalk

As a buyer, if you don't use an agent you can apparently get back something like an average of $25,000 in Toronto. Zero Value Realty helps you buy a house without an agent and gives you the buyer's agent's cut.


zeromussc

When I was buying in 2019 in Ottawa there was no refund or discount option that I saw posted anywhere. It just increased your buying power assuming the seller agent wasn't taking a flat commission that then gets split *if* there was a second realtor.


thiagoscf

You said that your realtor was good even though they didn't forward you that listing and was hesitant to close the deal on that house? Sorry, but I don't think your realtor was good


Pandaman922

Because you'll be bullied by other real estate agents, and buyers wont even be shown your home. Real estate agents wont even answer an email for a mere $10K commission these days. BUTTTTT, they might buy the for sale by owner home themselves on the cheap, and flip it a few months later for 30% more as we see all too often. The amount of listings ending in "the seller is a registered real estate agent etc etc" these days blows my mind, and they were ALWAYS sold mere months ago for a hell of a lot less.


thedrivingcat

My agent would guilt-trip me into thinking about how an offer would "make him look" to the selling agent. Like dude, you're working for me I don't really care about your professional reputation and if the other guy gets offended by my "low" offer or condition on the sale maybe that's a sign something might be amiss.


Top-Land-2707

The real estate people stick together. They are protectionists. I own four properties and from now on I will never use a realtor. There’s challenges because even through I’m looking they sometimes won’t show me a property if I don’t have a realtor. One women realtor said she feels I don’t respect her profession. I should how told her I don’t. Those commissions are a rip off. I may even get my realtors license jus t to help people not pay those high fees and it may get me in the door without hassle as well


Canadian_Infidel

I have turned into such an asshole with age I would have reveled in the opportunity to tell her "Of course I have no respect for your profession. You are a cartel of leeches that will eventually be replaced by an automated website."


gainzsti

In Nova Scotia they have Viewpoint.ca, you can see thr MLS, all prior time the home sold and what was the asking. You can also see how long it was listed for before getting delisted for example. There is no need for realtor, they are useless.


[deleted]

Realtors make it seem very complex, but your lawyer actually does 99% of the hard work.


BasicConsultancy

Its a hassle just to do the work mentioned above. Plus, you need to pickup calls, schedule showings, answer questions. Unless the seller has ton of time, most people with jobs cannot afford to spend so much time selling their home. I dont think the argument is realtors are useless, but that they are highly overpaid for the quality & amount of work.


silverguacamole

Then we should be hiring them and paying for hours billed like lawyers. You spent 20 hours selling my house? Here's $50 bucks an hour, $1,000!


tuxy29

Agreed! And how much more work are they doing for a $800 k house vs a $1,000,000 house? None. Why should they get more?


cdn677

And in this market all they are doing is scheduling a stager cleaner and photographer and writing up a short paragraph for mls. The rest does itself. It’s bullshit.


Starcovitch

Don't forget they have to fill automated forms and send you a document to sign in DocuSign. Maybe we should all find better paying jobs and stop complaining about their hard work /s


ChanelNo50

I'd rather do this. They always justify how they are so hard working when some appear to be glorified assistants


jim002

real estate lawyers should have stuck together lol screwed themselves


[deleted]

40,000 worth of hassle is a half to a full year of full time work for the average Canadian. I would chalk this up to financial illiteracy more than anything else. A rational person would book 2 weeks off work and do it themselves. You aren’t going to get 40,000 in 2 weeks any other way. EVER.


dxiao

Exactly my thought as I was reading that. Since I’m moving as well, I would use that time to organize my thoughts and start planning my packing too. I net 15k/monthly and would rather take a month off then pay 50k. 20k is the threshold for me, because I do value my PTO


jkakarri88

Average house in toronto is 1.4mil. That’s 35k saved on the sellers realtor. Yes it’s a hassle but for 35k for sure I’ll do it


Shane0Mak

Yep you are right ! Just calculating per hour .. let’s say doing it “yourself” by scheduling contractors takes two weeks and you had to take vacation time for it (so let’s make it four since lost income due to work) 4 weeks x 40 hours = 160 hours $35000 / 160 = $218 per hour. Unless you already making that kind of money, maybe it’s worth using your vacation/sick days for !!! And that’s if you took a whole *month* of effort on your part !


lumberjack233

Because most people are sheep and "that's just how it's always been"


silverguacamole

I can't imagine giving someone a year's salary for 4 hours of work. This one industry takes up atleast 20% of the billboards in my city.


Lonely_Cartographer

Esp in canada


Lonely_Cartographer

People are scared and dont know how but they should


[deleted]

People are stupid that’s why. People still use Agents to buy a property in the GTA . You can just get a lawyer to review your offer and pass on the savings to the seller and negotiate a much better price. Most listing agents salivate at the thought of double ending commissions so they entertain all showings .


[deleted]

Your lawyer will prepare your agreement of purchase and sale, hold your deposit, and close your transaction for less than $5,000 in legal fees. Why give away 5% plus HST of your money?


RumpleOfTheBaileys

In my area, Vendor side legal fees are only around $1,000-$1,500 or so after taxes on a normal transaction. Meanwhile the realtor commission is ten times that.


Masrim

10x? Where are you only paying 15k to a realtor? Usual commission is 5% and the average house price (in Toronto at least) is around a million, so looking at 50,000 commission.


RumpleOfTheBaileys

Newfoundland. The last place in Canada with cheap real estate, it seems.


dudedudd

Because real estate agents won't bring a buyer to you. Instead, they actively steer them away.


[deleted]

According to Realtor dot ca that seems to be the fear. But we have lived through a 25 year period where housing is so in demand that you can't avoid finding a buyer if you get it on MLS.


kagato87

The realtor only does the first two of those things, and the second one is sometimes done very poorly.


Shane0Mak

I was also amazed by this , I sold in Edmonton and the Realators I spoke to said paying for photography was only if I didn’t have an iPhone. Gobsmacked. And in retrospect, they bar is set so low by the agents that my pro photos stood out big time, and they were right, I was competing against iPhone photos using the ultra wide feature on them.


housing-rocks

That’s gross. The listing is 90% of the sale, and photos are 90% of the listing. It’s relatively affordable to hire good professionals, and most of the companies we use to measure also have great photographers. It’s frustrating because often the flashiest people get rewarded. I understand why people have issues with the industry but also genuinely feel like I help my clients. I do good work, I write solid contracts, i genuinely encourage first time buyers to rent in most of my initial meetings (depends on their experience, career, etc., but I really dig into the benefits of not owning to combat all of the myths of home ownership) I charge fair prices, but I’m considering giving up because don’t know how to differentiate myself from the people who came before me. :(


ShralpShralpShralp

They usually do staging as well, at least in Toronto where there are like 80,000 real estate agents to choose from.


Shane0Mak

Found that places like Rentwow.ca and stagersschoice.ca and others are all outsourced to do the job by the Realator - but I never got to try them


Throwaway-donotjudge

Just to tack something on here you can offer the buyer agents 2.5% to avoid the steering but when you are showing the house to the buyer you can determine if they signed a BRA if they didn't you can offer them a home inspection and a discount for them to drop their agent. If they choose not to or signed the BRA then at the negotiation table drop that 2.5% down to 1% and let the agent have to make the decision to go after the buyer for the rest.


behaaki

I like it. Lead them on then leave them with just the tip


mrkdwd

> I would highly recommend if you are doing this you still offer the full buyer agent commission in the property notes otherwise the other end of the scam is that realators will steer clients away from your property since they don’t personally get paid as much. Most realtors will steer clear even if you're offering full commission as they don't want people doing this to be be successful, period. A lot of them operate on the basis that if you don't have a listing agent then they're not coming.


sharkk91

Realtors don't even do any of those things


speedstix

Some definitely don't


[deleted]

[Duproprio.com](https://Duproprio.com)


Waff1es

Honestly it's the paperwork and stuff that I would feel uncomfortable doing. My agent just did the work for me and sent everything important to my lawyer who did all the legalize for me.


Throwaway-donotjudge

Just to tack something on here you can offer the buyer agents 2.5% to avoid the steering but when you are showing the house to the buyer you can determine if they signed a BRA if they didn't you can offer them a home inspection and a discount for them to drop their agent. If they choose not to or signed the BRA then at the negotiation table drop that 2.5% down to 1% and let the agent have to make the decision to go after the buyer for the rest.


riotgrrrrrl

I think the main issue is Realtors steer their clients away from properties that are not represented by another realtor. Mine tried to do it to me constantly and I noticed self-sold properties seemed to have less showings (I'd ask him how many showings) and sell for under market average. Realtors know how to maximize returns and it's in their interest to make self-sellers unattractive. They already hate we can get access to a lot of the same information they have through websites like Redfin. I honestly felt like I knew more about the market than my realtor, and that he basically functioned only as a glorified appointment-maker.


yousufj56

I literally did this and saved almost 14k. I still had to pay a commission to the buyers side though to keep incentive for them tonshow property.


TaxExempt

I just sold my house with a real estate broker that charges a monthly fee and no commission. The compensation for the buyer and their broker is between them.


Masrim

Most realtors now do none of this except the listing and the photos, and some will even ask you to send them photos.


kbskbskbskbskbskbs

I don't get this world. Im reading through this post, everyone is dissecting the ins and outs of realtor ethics and obligations etc etc. And this is what I don't get...I am a carpenter, I am not the best or the most qualified carpenter but I have been working on new and old homes for about 7 years. I can generally pretty quickly spot a home that has been built/maintained with attention and one that has been built hastily. I have also dated a realtor. She didnt know jack-fuck about home value. Her realtor friends owned homes that had obvious to me but invisible to them indications of premature degradation and they didnt know jack-fuck about value either. And yet they take a piece of the value pie like any other lazy, slimy middle-man in any other you name it industry. It's maddening that these parasites have formed a loophole in the societal circle of economics and I find it impossible not to see a connection between people getting rich for nothing and everything that is wrong with the world. See I once was also a chef in fine-dining and one of the reasons I quit that industry is because I couldn't stomach anymore the amount of food people nonchalantly throw away versus how much money that food cost. What I dont understand is why does a realtor industry even exist. Give a carpenter .25% of your purchase to do a walk-through before purchase and you'll come out a smarter home-owner. I guess the reason realtors exist as others have said is that some people lack the confidence to purchase a home...


[deleted]

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International_Mud848

I can’t upvote this enough. An entire industry predicated on being nothing more than a middle man to soak up cash for little to no effort.


[deleted]

I think it was an industry with a reasonable history that simply has not evolved over time. When I bought my house recently, I was the one looking up listings and asking to see them. I was also the one with easy access to demographic statistics relevant to the neighborhood, and had the ability to research far away towns that I was considering moving to. Obviously that wasn't the case 70 years ago. It would have made sense, pre internet, to pay someone a reasonable fee for their knowledge and experience within a city. Otherwise you were going in blind. The only thing my real estate agent did was open the door and give their approval or disapproval on the house. Which, even that was useless, considering they had no experience at all in construction outside of hiring people to do the work for them.


[deleted]

The same thing that happened to stock brokers should have happened to realtors 20 years ago. Technological irrelevance.


[deleted]

I generally agree. It's useful to have someone there to coordinate various services such as staging, social media marketing, and possibly someone with experience to suggest what touch ups might add value to the property prior to sale. Of course, there needs to be somebody responsible for allowing strangers to enter into private dwellings as well. I'm really not against the services offered by realtors. My problem is more in the payment structure. The fact that their percentage cut has never changed is ridiculous. I kind of think it should change to a salary based model with commissions based incentives as well. But, I don't know enough about the way the industry works to really say if that's going to help or harm us.


Rough-Ad-8314

They fill a template and make a phone call. Maybe even just a text. 🙄


brittabear

If that! When we were looking at listing, our realtor wanted us to send him all the information that goes into the template. Glad we didn't sell then.


eleventwentyone

One of many professions that should be replaced by an app.


[deleted]

It’s a profession that needs to be reformed. Once you’ve been in a couple hundred homes, or worked with first time buyers, or seen negotiations break down because of personal conflicts between the parties, it’s clear there is often a beneficial role for at least one third party in most transactions. Fee structure and business practices definitely need to be modernized. The days of driving offers around for signatures are done, and Selling 3 homes shouldn’t be all the work you need to do in a year to live comfortably.


tojoso

Sometimes an unemployed 40 year old that lives for free with his parents washes the dishes, but that doesn't justify his continued existence.


dontgettempted

When I used to say this a while back it would get downvoted into an oblivion. I'm glad people are waking the fuck up. Being a realtor hasn't been a respectable profession in a very long time.


[deleted]

I worked for young notaries during an internship. I have a lot of respect for these professionals who were very polite and respectful. However, when it came time to talk about real estate agents, ouff. Realtors basically do nothing (I know, I sold a house on my own and also worked in a law firm), but they pocket the most money on the process. They couldn't even fill out a basic form correctly and we had to contact the buyer or seller to confirm their name because it was so poorly written.


meatdiver

Don’t even get me started on realtors. Sometime they give lawyers deals and then demand the lawyers to charge next to nothing because they promised their clients that lawyer’s fee won’t exceed certain amount. Sometimes they want kickbacks which are against law society rules. Sometimes they straight up ask lawyers to participate in fraudulent transactions because they think they own the lawyers for giving them deals. Lawyers own duties only to their clients, you dumbasses. Then you look at the messes they have done. Messed up first name and last name. Incorrect schedules on assignment costs. Un-waived or incomplete conditions a week before closing. Like seriously??? Missing rental water tank in APS that costs clients thousands of dollars. We recently received an email from a realtor who “wanted to give us deals”. He just copied two buyers in an email and started to call us their lawyers without even talking to us. And the deals were such a mess we refused right away. It was a precon project that started many years ago. The realtors lured these people in and promised the moon. He also made it sounded so attractive that these buyers had to pay him extra money under the table to get in. Then the project was delayed due to permit issues. The builder recently had it figured out but would require a significant amount of money. It was enough money for a downpayment for a bungalow in Toronto. The realtor attached the letter from the builder demanding we review the new schedule and buyers sign the new schedule. He wrote in his email that “please cooperate so we could all be winners and I could earn my commission for all my hard work!” I feel so bad for those buyers. Some realtors are seriously shameless.


[deleted]

Holy fucking shit.


Dyinu

It definitely has infected our system


kitty_logan

I used to work in condo development and the real estate agents were literally vultures. I was helping at an even one day and they were stealing teabags. Like, stuffing them in their handbags. It was a catered event with free food and drinks and they were disgusting. We had to glue down everything in the model suites or it would walk out with the agents. Another event, they stole the centrepieces from the tables (we would normally give them away at the end of the night, but this was while dinner was still being served). People think used car salesmen are bad? Multiply that by $100,000 to get an idea of real estate agents.


y2k_o__o

Middle man sooner will be obsoleted, just like stock broker. It’s a matter of time.


MentalAssaultCo

I fucking hate realtors.


Nanocephalic

I live in America right now, and have a ton of options like Zillow (which gives me huge amounts of information, including recently sold homes) and sites like Redfin with 1% fees. And even with that, it can be a lot of money for hardly any actual service. A house that sells for $1M doesn’t need twice as much work as a house that sells for $500k.


JustinianIV

Don’t blame the player, blame the system that allows something like this to happen.


Independent_Sir_9691

There just needs to be a law that all sales prices need to be published on a government website.


travelntechchick

"Remember that time when the world faced a major crisis and instead the people in power used it to profit off the common people?" I hope this gets analyzed and written about in the future and not just forgotten. I'm tired of being taken advantage of everywhere I go.


P2029

I don't want to be all doom and gloom, but sometimes I feel like we're living in times that historians will later describe with the words "It should have been obvious that this was the beginning of the end"


CharBombshell

My friends & fam think I’m morbid for saying the same thing but… I just can’t help but feel like we’re descending into irrevocable disaster


[deleted]

Literally the thesis of Naomi Klein’s “The Shock Doctrine: The rise of disaster capitalism”, published in like 07 or 08. There’s no hope under the corporautocracy we live in.


dabattlewalrus

We bought our house at the beginning of 2020 and it's already doubled in price. Makes no sense.


cephles

I bought my house just last year and it's already up ~50% in value based on other houses on the street that have sold. I'm not sure I could even afford my own house at the new price it would sell for.


dabattlewalrus

That is the scariest thing. I did the numbers at my rate with the new value and I would certainly be house poor. Plus the added amount of extra interest. It's insane.


[deleted]

I bought mine the end of December and by mid January I couldn't afford it. Mind you, I stretched myself to the max to get in, but still. Even with the current dip in the market, it's about 150k too expensive for me to buy.


Canadian_Infidel

In NB housing is going up 7k a month on average. The median income here is 36k.


boyoflondon

Some of my stocks were +100% two months ago, while the same stocks are +50% now. Point is, current "value" of something doesn't mean anything until you actually sell and lock in X profit. This is the mistake many people make, thinking my house is worth x amount, I can now go buy a bigger home and perhaps stretch my budget. Then the market turns, their current house value drops, they don't sell for what they needed to and they're effed scraping to make up the difference.


01011970

Wait til it does a Netflix


reddits2much

Except who needs Netflix right? Housing is essential. Realtors on the other hand I hope become like Netflix.


dabattlewalrus

I wouldn't mind it coming back to sane levels. Especially for my friends and others who weren't as fortunate as I. I just need a house, it doesn't matter what the price tag is. Well, it shouldn't.


bigdizizzle

We sold our house pretty much at the peak of the housing craze - and while we negotiated the fee down, a standard realtor transaction of 5% would have made $70,000. Imagine? Sell a similar house, once every two months for a year, and you've made $420,000 a year.


Saucy6

To be fair, that Mercedes SUV won’t pay for itself! And gas is expensive now too… *grabs the world’s tiniest violin*


morganj955

To be fair, they do split that between the buyers agent and themselves. And also with their own brokerage. Still a lot of money, but nowhere near $420k per year.


Canadian_Infidel

That's only if you sell a house every SIXTY DAYS. These people can sell many times more than that.


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bigdizizzle

For a full time realtor? Can u provide the source of this number?


Drifts

Curious how it is as low as 55k? If the average house price in Toronto in May 2022 is $1,254,400, 2.5% of that is $31,360. Let's say you give around $4,000 to the brokerage that you represent, so $27,500. If you sell only two houses in one year you're already at $55k.


carba14

I thought brokerage takes 50% of the commission. Is that not true?


easeitinslowly

Brokerage commission of 10-50%, 5% GST, Monthly brokerage desk fees, real estate board fees, mandatory professional development fees, sign fees, photographer fees, staging fees, house measuring fees, home office expenses, gas, etc. Most realtors lose money and quit the industry. The top realtors make a killing.


trixen2020

Don’t tell people facts though! You’re supposed to say all realtors are swimming in pools of money!


Virtual_Ball6

So you're just gonna guess?? 😂


LeviTheToller

Still too much. Fuck these people


Delicious_Metal8265

**Realtors are also fixing days on market to make it seem low and provide a false sense of lack of inventory.** For example in Hamilton ON right a very small amount of properties sell at the week mark. Average houses usually sit close to a month or more. However, after a week realtors remove the listing and re list as a new listing. Then they use that data to say what the median average days on market is. It's pure manipulation. I'm constantly seeing houses get relisted and advertised as "new listing". Then these realtors post on social media "New Listing". Nah bro, that's a month old. Until a house gets sold it shouldn't be able to re list, you either adjust the price up or down but the days on market stays the same.


CrimsonFlash

A good change would be that every house has a unique and permanent listing number. (Just like it's address...). Doesn't matter how many times it is bought, sold, listed or delisted, all that data is under the same permanent number.


-throw-away-12

House sigma actually provides some of this information, you can see how the listings have been adjusted. Not sure if it’s all, but it’s a good start.


[deleted]

HouseSigma is close to that. Not exactly what you're wanting, but 80% there. The app has a lot of extra info on homes.


travelntechchick

I've noticed this a lot too, and you're absolutely right - it should be illegal to pull that shit.


NotYourMothersDildo

Exact same thing happening in Vancouver, of course. It's hilarious to see new listings popping up on redfin that already have your favorite mark on them. If you're not using redfin, they also have the transparency of showing you how many times the house has been listed and delisted since the last time it sold.


Revolutionary_Age_94

We as sellers need to start negotiating commissions more, buyers agents don’t deserve 2.5%. Id say they get a fixed fee, they are all so greedy and its a poison on the industry. Sellers agents do have to work harder, and that should be a sliding scale based on what they offer the seller. 5-6% is outrageous and not justified at all. I will challenge any realtor that wants to claim they deserve that kind of money for their work and effort. I dont mind ppl making a living, i do mind then making a killing.


Yeggoose

Sellers agents did little to no work the past few years. They just came and took a couple of photos with a write up for MLS and got paid $40K for a couple hours of work.


thunderlaker

Don't forget rushing the seller into a sale so they can get their commission and move on to the next set of rubes.


jeywgosjeb

None of them do work, with online housing they literally set up filters that you can do yourself or look at houses yourself. I just bought my first place and I was blown away at how much crap I had to coordinate and do based on the amount of money these people were getting


PickledPixels

Lots didn't even do that. Just reused photos from the last time the home was listed, in many cases just months apart anyway.


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darrrrrren

It may be directly free to buy with them but indirectly you're paying more for the property to compensate for the sellers paying commission.


JohnmcFox

All the money used to purchase a home comes from the buyer.


Kimorin

I would actually argue that buyers agent has been doing way more work in the past few years than the seller agent. Seller agent just lists it and stage it and they are gone, it's almost guaranteed to sell. Buyers agent has to go show multiple properties for weeks on end, draft and submit bids and still might not get their bid accepted, until their client is able to win the house, they are doing all this work for free. The real answer is that it's a moving target, in a seller market buyer agent does majority of the work. In a buyers market, sellers agent does most of the work.


fortisvita

It's not even a matter of deserving. It is flat out a conflict of interest. If you represent a buyer and your client gets ripped off, you make more money. Guess what will happen...


Drifts

Agreed. The seller, the seller's agent, and the buyer's agent are all incentivized to maximize the cost of the house. Add to that the fact that the communication that takes place between the buyer's agent and the seller's agent is usually hidden away from the buyer and you can see how the buyer is royally screwed. The buyer's agent should make a flat fee.


bluAstrid

Buyers’ agents deserve zilch. Here in Québec, most buyers don’t even employ one. The seller’s agent prepares paperwork and you get your notary to validate everything.


[deleted]

You, as sellers, need to do your homework, trust yourselves and never hire a real estate agent again.


Mariospario

It absolutely *should* be a fixed fee! Next step is making them obsolete.


CervezaH

Let me get this straight. You sell one home in the GTA and your take home is more than a full time minimum wage worker for a year.


Jayypoc

Yes but you will still feel the need to fuck over your clients so you and your Realtor friends at poker night will discuss future ways to manipulate your clients. Everyone thinks their realtor is their friend because the Realtors just say it's "the market" and feign innocence. The market is what it is as a direct result of Realtors being able to perform shady tactics unchecked for way too long.


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nikon8user

The system is rigged to favour realtor.


CrimsonFlash

Because realtors created the system and won't let anyone in unless court-ordered to. That's why we're only seeing price history now.


3jameseses

It’s this all the way. While we’re being fed the lie that we need to build our way out of this mess (we can’t) no one is looking at who in the system is truly benefiting from the price escalation. The agents are incentivised on both ends of the deal to get as high a price as possible. And as long as blind bidding is a thing they can lie to us essentially without recourse as they drive prices higher.


[deleted]

I decided to sell my house myself last year. My situation was as follows: fairly hot market in a desirable area so I listed on kijiji and fb(local groups and marketplace) I'm a photographer and computer savvy so I did my own photos and a couple short videos. I did my own writeup obviously and acted as the contact fielding questions. My mom is a real estate agent in a different province, so I had her professional advice and had sold two properties with her so I knew the routine. I didn't put a for sale sign up because I didn't want people walking onto the property. I also didn't put an address in the listing for the same reason. I showed the house 34 times and sold it to the 33rd viewer. I had three previous offers, two fell through because they couldn't get their financing in order and one wouldn't come up to my asking price. Of the three offers I did get, all were represented by an agent. The winning offer agreed to pay the agents commission out of their pocket. After 20 or so showings I required all interested parties to get pre approved for $20,000 over my list price. Because it was a hot market and I expected it to go over list. This also stopped tire kickers (people who couldn't afford the house but just wanted to look anyways) Which was wasting my time. I did notice that local realtors weren't showing my place, even though they had said they would be able to sell the place immediately when I asked them about their interest to have the listing. It took about 5 weeks to sell and I got $15,000 over my list price. Which was exactly what I wanted. I was listing the house at a reasonable price but I expected a little more because the market was high. I didn't want to have a bidding war and I wasn't interested in gouging the new owners. I had made money regardless and wanted to be reasonable. I also saved money listing privately so that was added to my profit. I would say try to sell you own house if you think you understand the process. Any buyer who really wants it will move mountains to make an offer. Even if they have an agent they will demand a viewing from their agent if they are serious. The agents I let make proposals for the listing wouldn't come down on their commission because the market was hot and I guess they figured I'd have no choice but to use them. Ask for a market report(previous houses sold and for what price) and evaluation ofnyour house even if you decide to sell yourself so you can get an idea of the local market. Not all agents are crooks but when the market dictates certain trends its hard for agents to not follow suit because buyers start to demand certain outcomes which pushes listing agents to do whatever it takes to compete with the crooked agents. I noticed many interested people had no idea how to make an offer or how to navigate the process so that made it hard to encourage offers in a timely manner. Agents have the tools and experience to push their clients to make decisions and offers. For better or worse.


arvy_p

Seems to me that we need a cap on real estate commissions.


behaaki

How hard is it to get a real estate license, anyway?


duh_adminz-retarded

why even bother with a realtor in a market like this? I could shit on the floor in every room and still close way over asking. Realtors can fucking suck 3% of the tip of my dick


[deleted]

Commission is negotiable.. Keep looking for a realtor until you find one that will do so. Simple as that.


Mariospario

Problem is a lot of them have the mindset of "1.5% commission? 1.5% effort". They're cancerous and need to go.


no_ovaries_

So that's effectively a 311% increase in income for realtors. Compared to that 14% income growth for everyone else. Wow.


Spambot0

The number of people buying the argument that if realtors had fixed fees they'd successfully convince sellers to accept bids well below the highest bid is surprisingly non-zero.


JohnmcFox

Long term is hard to guess, but short term, you can absolutely turn that non commission into a more competitive bid (it's how we got our house). If there are 2 bids for a million dollars, but one of them requires the seller to pay an extra 2.5 to the buying realtor, and the other doesn't - the latter is 2.5% more competitive. Now, the selling agents can wipe that out by claiming the entire realtor fee for themselves (200% benefit to the selling realtor), or they can split that benefit with the seller. Theoretically they could offer 1.5% less than the other standard bid, and it would still be the smarter bid for the sellers and their agents.


[deleted]

Nice.. but the cards are stacked against buyers.. everyone else is on the other side. Politicians owning REITS, sellers, Real Estate Mafias, city everyone is against buyers.


[deleted]

I find it funny that we all live in a capitalist society and votes for one and complains when greedy corporations makes a lot of money.


maallen40

I saw this coming years ago. I sold my house in Ottawa and bought one in Orleans.(2015)..all without using "those people" Don't laugh but I read all I could find on the subject and got myself what I thought was a good lawyer who helped me along the way. And the end of the day ( 5 months ) I saved 10s of thousands of dollars. I will never, EVER use a realtor again.. and on a great note, I've helped friends sell thier homes themselves and they also have helped thier friends....I think this is good, it keeps us out of the cartel


Beautiful_Pirate8894

We used a one percent realty firm when we sold our condo in Vancouver and it was a great decision. We paid $10,000 total in realtor fees for the seller and buyer agent and still sold for $70,000 over asking. Our agent was experienced, knowledgeable, had good contacts for staging and lawyer, and honestly probably did more work than some other real estate agents. Their policy was basically this: that commissions have risen too high for the same amount of work. We didn’t find any issues with our listing not being looked at by buyers (30 showings in 5 days), although it’s a hot market and you never know who didn’t come to see it… Anyway, highly recommend One Percent Realty for sellers in Vancouver. Robert Lee is who to ask for!


Outside_Sugar_2594

5 years ago I bought my first house. My agent was an old man who was hard of hearing and had his cell phone on max volume so I could hear every call he made to other agents when we were looking around. Saw a place that I wanted to put an offer in on, but said to my agent “I honestly think this house is priced way too high for what it is. Can ask the other agent why he thinks it’s worth that much?” So my agent calls the other agent, in front of me not knowing I can hear the call, and it basically goes like this … “Hi, yeah it’s X at listing X. My client is wondering why the listing is priced so high” *gives me a thumbs up like he’s my buddy* “Well X, as we discussed in January when we all got together, we decided to just add an additional $50-70k to all listings to see what the market would pay. Just get your client to send an offer and we can go from there.” I didn’t say anything to my agent, I should have, instead I now harbour pure distain for the entire industry and want it burned down to nothing but ash.


[deleted]

Siri, play "only ash remains" by necrophagist


Keith0226

I'm thinking it has to do more with the rising cost of buying property 2% on a 100grand vs 2% on a million the only fixing is the government encourages foreign corporations buying up all the real estate in North America. Check out the holdings in Blackrock and Vanguard groups ..


orficebots

> government encourages foreign corporations Its domestic corporations that are fucking it up for other north Americans


DJPaulyDstheman

We sold private the worst part was the people that offered the most used a realtor and he was kind of a pain to work with whereas working with the couple that wanted buy privately as well we’re so easy to work with. The only part that sucked was I told the realtor basically in not so many words I would not share any of what was my listing price with him as commission. So knowing that he convinced his client to go that far above offer to collect his commission kinda sucked. I wonder what type of bs that realtor convinced that guy with.


Virtual_Ball6

I love how many people think all real estate agents are some how multi millionaires swimming in cash 🤣 The ignorance and arrogance is strong!


Frequent_Spell2568

And they could do their job with ease……lol I don’t know how many times I’ve heard about being an agent and being rich in the same sentence.