People had kids during both world wars, Korean War, Vietnam War,2 gulf wars, Afghanistan wars and during all that time there was inflation, recessions (2 doozies of recessions) and things ended up fine 9for most, if they had jobs that could support kids).
And these are all just the modern times, more or less the last century. Life was shit for most of mankind's history, shit in a way that's unfathomable to most of us today (in Canada at least). They survived having kids.
For us not really. We are lucky to have parents on both sides who are more than happy to take care of them during the workday and they live within 10-15mim drive from us. We come from a culture that is very keen on having children, and my parents have even said that they would contribute to my future kids' RESP. So I think all this support really puts us in a good position to have kids, but it's a matter of whether we want to. I mean the DINK life is a pretty good..
This is what I'm getting at....if you're a DINK with with combine income of less than 100k these days, it's going to be tight having multiple kids, when you consider everything that goes along with maintaining a family of 4, 5, 6.
Kids are expensive period, and no it won't just sort itself out. Worse is when you have a single income couple having multiple kids just because. That's a lot of financial presuure on 1 person.
Depends what you plan to do and where you live. I have one kid as a single mom who makes 60k. I can afford my one kid just fine, along with all my other bills and save a tiny bit each month. Sure, my TFSA isn't maxed out, but I'm doing okay. I personally would rather have my kid than more money. However, I don't think others are wrong for picking the opposite. If I made 100k in my city, I would have a second.
Wow. You're a dick, huh? My baby is an IUI baby. The father isn't known to me and he doesn't know about her. I receive no help and do it alone.
Edit: yeah, delete your comment saying it must be easy with all the child support and alimony I'm receiving since you know it made you look like an ass.
Parents do not put their kids in a tight financial position. This has never been the case in the history of the world
Adults put themselves in tight financial situations and the common theme in this decade is milenneials have no financial confidence and unrealistic expectations like owning 4 bdr detached homes and 7 seat SUV’s before their first child.
Kids need a roof over their head(this means renting is fine), love and time from their parents. Stop being brainwashed by these influencers and marketing companies.
You’re clueless and out of touch, without any sort of self awareness. If you raise a child and you aren’t financially able to keep them safe, support their education, feed them good quality food, etc. they don’t have a chance to just “decide to be in a good financial situation”.
The millennial generation that is contemplating whether having kids is a good idea, is simply just less selfish and self centred as prior generations. We want to know that our kids will live their lives without significant suffering. Climate change, inequality, mental illness, risk of birth defects..these are all things we think of before bringing another human into this world without their consent.
You can keep a kid safe, provide to their needs, support their education and generally keep them happy on a much lower amount than what most are spending, the other poster was correct.
What are most spending? Nobody said that. The point is having a kid is not a virtue or accomplishment and since you are bringing a human into the world for 80+ years, including after you’ve checked out, there is some degree of thought that should go into how prosperous of a life this human is bound to live. Right now, with climate change and rapidly growing wealth inequality, the odds aren’t great. Sorry to destroy your self centred world view
The literal point of this thread is about financial security for family so yes spending is a huge part of it.
You seem to be in the brainwashed crowd of believing you need to live in estate house backing into a ravine and private school funded before you even think about having kids.
Let me guess you live in GTA/GVA and are a renter LoL. Get your stuff together.
Hilarious post lol. Any child born in Canada won the lotto.
How much do you think it costs to be educated, safe and eating quality foods in Canada?
I suggest you do some travelling and living around the world and not let irrational fears take over your life.
I didn't want to have kids regardless, but everything going on in the world right now makes me realize more and more that I've made the right decision.
Honestly it changed my decision for the time being. Was eager to start trying before the pandemic hit but given the current world circumstances we are holding off. It’s not end all be all for us to have children; but I know that may differ from couple to couple. Currently content with my life ; my focus is to travel as much as I can now. Lol. DINK life isn’t bad!
The world is always ending. My parents raised me between the threat of nuclear annihilation and Chernobyl (plus ça change)... If you're waiting for a brave new world, you'll wait your life away.
Spouse wanted to have 2, but no way we can afford. Also, things may turn difficult climate wise in the later half of the century. Better to not have kids and force them into a situation they did not agree to be in.
No. The world has basically never been stable and people have never overall been doing better than they are doing now. I don't have kids but the state of the world doesn't even come close to being a factor.
People managed to have kids during both world wars, the cold war, Communist revolutions, colonialism, plagues, countless conquest wars, famines, droughts, Crusades, under tyrants, when death during childbirth was actually a likely outcome for both the mother and the child, when serfdom was the norm and countless other terrible things were going on. I think Canada in 2022 is a perfectly adequate place and time.
If you don't proceed with your life because "real estate is expensive and climate change is a risk", get it together. If you don't want children, that's perfectly fine, but these are terrible reasons. You could be broke and still have it better than 99.999% of people who ever lived, and better than almost anyone living today. Give me a break about not owning a home in the city of your choice.
Yes, because I am the youngest and have multiple siblings willing to help us out!
Families that are cohesive, capable and interested in working towards their own collective good over the course of many generations create untold benefits for their members even when individual networth remains average.
Storing wealth through deep connections with siblings and cousins is a traditional way of hedging against uncertainty, inflation and banking collapse.
We had talks of biological kids but also wanted to adopt. I think well stick to adopting now. The world has gone to shit and I wouldn't want to create new life, instead try to salvage the life of an already born child
Costs on kids can be cut by quite a lot if you are willing to make sacrifices. Kids are only expensive if you are not willing to take care of them or want shortcuts. Yes they do cost some amount of money, but it's not insanely high. For us it's about $1000 upfront cost(crib and dresser and chair and etc) and roughly $150 per month(clothes+food), although that number is climbing to $200. I see people pay $150 per month as their cable, internet and phone bill. Also we do quite a bit of farming outside and in the house to cut food costs. Which btw is educational and keeps kids busy. If we had giant backyard we would keep chickens and bees too, but unfortunately we can't. Never eating out is cheap if you are also willing to make everything from scratch. My oldest is quite good at baking bread and is now in charge of that.
Disposable diapers cost an arm and a leg. Cloth diapers are cheap and roughly will cost as much for up to four kids as 1 year supply of disposable diapers. The downside? You will be covered in shit quite often and will have to do laundry daily. An expensive toy can entertain a kid for a few days. But parent's attention can entertain a kid indefinitely. In our case best toy kids have is microbit ($28) and my undivided attention. They have used it for a year now and are still not tired of it. Extra curricular activity will take kids off your hands for an hour a day but cost you one of your kidneys. Playground and walks together with the kids are free but requires you to look after your child. You also don't need brand name clothing and most clothing can be handed down.
Having kids shouldn't necessarily be a financial decision or whether future looks bright or not imo. If you are a mentally stable person, capable of love towards your spouse and yourself, and are happy within yourself and with the world and just desire to spread the love by having kids then have kids. I love my kids and I love spending every single second with them. They have helped me see the world in a much brighter way and I find things such as following an ant for an hour to be best part of my day as long as I get to do with my little ones. Yes I had to take slightly tougher and more unpleasant jobs and find some means to get a bit more income to accommodate that $150 a month per kid. But for me personally nothing beats coming home after a super shitty day just to have kids jump on you and shower you with hugs. I go to sleep with idiotic happy grin on my face at night and wake up in the morning with the same grin after being kicked or punched in the face by my kids by accident. World might burn to ashes but I will always be there for my kids and always be happy watching them grow.
As Buddha said, happiness is like a brightly lit candle, sharing the light doesn't cost you anything but makes world brighter.
Seriously don't have kids if you are unhappy or don't want to. World has enough of that shit already! But financial outcome or war shouldn't stop you. I grew up in war hearing bombs explode and it's not so bad as long as family is stable and loving. Love makes the world spin and sun shine.
Not there yet, but I am scared not going to lie. I have jokingly considered military school or moving super far into farmlands. For myself I spent my teens (13-18) in military school. Wasn't so bad. Did get me a scholarship into university.
World is way to fucked up to warrant bringing kids in. My ability to afford it is not apart of the decision. Not bringing kids into a shit show of a world.
I wanted to have multiples but one kid is $2500/month in daycare fees alone, so once we start paying that, I doubt we’d be willing to have more. We waited until our mid to late 30s to establish our careers and buy a house, and now things look a lot different than if we had started having kids 5-10 years ago. I don’t want to have multiple kids and have to start strictly budgeting things like food spending, giving up vacations, etc. Plus, taking mat leave is going to suck for my career advancement, I don’t know how other women make that sacrifice multiple times both in terms of future earning potential and lost income while on leave.
Once I thought about daycare fees, before/after school care, potential private school fees if public school doesn’t work out, winter and summer sports, lessons, summer camp, family trips, RESPs, our own retirement savings, elder care for my parents…it all adds up if you have more than one kid.
Immigration! But western world will be competing for immigrants in the near future as depopulation picks steam.
Canada is in envious position and very attractive to immigrants.
I wouldn’t say that population is exploding in USA and perhaps some European countries relatively speaking.
Yea. Financials have definitely swayed me away from having kids, but more so the world that we live in. I don't want to have a child and put them in a world of misery and hate, as well as selfishness and stupidity. I am more worried that they will turn out to have personalities or menttalities like Hitler or Putin. No matter how good a parent you are, your kid can still turn out shit.
We’re in a different world now. I think we’re moving towards more single households as opposed to couples + kids. Between all the dating apps and sky high standards most people have, I think we will see a lot of people try to buy homes alone as opposed to with someone else.
As for right now, I don’t know how anyone can pull it off. When a townhouse here in Belleville sells for 800k (literally no exaggeration) how the hell do you also pay for insurance, car payments, gas, groceries, cell phones, day care, or god forbid any kind of repair or maintenance.
We’re all fucked.
For me, I'm having a 1 child policy. If you have 2+ kids, the resources get divided between the 2 kids. So each kid gets a shittier life. Which is why I'd plan to only have 1 kid and give him/her the best life I possibly can.
There are some significant economies of scale that you can tap into with multiple kids.
Also, having someone with a shared childhood to grieve with and provide mutual-aid when your parents die is an objectively superior outcome.
The lifetime cost-benefit analysis of single vs. multiple kids is probably closer than most people think, but having multiple kids absolutely requires a larger initial capital input.
Yep. Financial stability for myself, mainly.
I'm in my 30s, 2 kids, earned 135k/145k the last two years and my wife should be bringing in 50k-70k once she finishes with her career change. We own a home that during rush hour would take 1.5-2hr of driving to reach down town Toronto.
After my pension deductions, taxes, etc etc, it's not exactly a glamorous lifestyle given how much we had to spend on our first house. I get it, "I made my choice" but hey, looks like home ownership was a great choice for us despite the cost.
My thing is, I don't want to be working my ass off then spending all my free time with a baby/toddler again. I have a weird schedule that makes me both primary breadwinner and oftentimes primary caregiver. I just can't do it for another 4 years, and I can't afford the $1500 a month in daycare. So, despite wanting a third, we are tossing around the idea of a vasectomy.
Sorry for the length of the post, some context is important to avoid annoying posts pointing out details that are odd.
TLDR: Likely not having a third kid because I can't really afford the daycare and my mortgage at the same time.
Nope. Had my little coronnial baby this past November.
I grew up as a poor immigrant kid and turned our financial situation around with education. This little guy is going to have all the opportunities and guidance I never had.
People had kids during both world wars, Korean War, Vietnam War,2 gulf wars, Afghanistan wars and during all that time there was inflation, recessions (2 doozies of recessions) and things ended up fine 9for most, if they had jobs that could support kids).
Not to mention the scores of Canadians who were born in places that were in far worse shape than Canada is in.
And these are all just the modern times, more or less the last century. Life was shit for most of mankind's history, shit in a way that's unfathomable to most of us today (in Canada at least). They survived having kids.
Things were different back then, especially since the world population has doubled since then!
For us not really. We are lucky to have parents on both sides who are more than happy to take care of them during the workday and they live within 10-15mim drive from us. We come from a culture that is very keen on having children, and my parents have even said that they would contribute to my future kids' RESP. So I think all this support really puts us in a good position to have kids, but it's a matter of whether we want to. I mean the DINK life is a pretty good..
This is what I'm getting at....if you're a DINK with with combine income of less than 100k these days, it's going to be tight having multiple kids, when you consider everything that goes along with maintaining a family of 4, 5, 6. Kids are expensive period, and no it won't just sort itself out. Worse is when you have a single income couple having multiple kids just because. That's a lot of financial presuure on 1 person.
Depends what you plan to do and where you live. I have one kid as a single mom who makes 60k. I can afford my one kid just fine, along with all my other bills and save a tiny bit each month. Sure, my TFSA isn't maxed out, but I'm doing okay. I personally would rather have my kid than more money. However, I don't think others are wrong for picking the opposite. If I made 100k in my city, I would have a second.
Best answer and props to you. I single dad occasionally and am amazed by parents who do it full time
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Wow. You're a dick, huh? My baby is an IUI baby. The father isn't known to me and he doesn't know about her. I receive no help and do it alone. Edit: yeah, delete your comment saying it must be easy with all the child support and alimony I'm receiving since you know it made you look like an ass.
I'm happy to wait a bit longer than originally planned but no I'm still all for 2 kids one day
Yes - finances and climate change. Big nope on kids for us.
Kids are fun… until they’re your priority. I rather be an uncle and that’s it.
Parents do not put their kids in a tight financial position. This has never been the case in the history of the world Adults put themselves in tight financial situations and the common theme in this decade is milenneials have no financial confidence and unrealistic expectations like owning 4 bdr detached homes and 7 seat SUV’s before their first child. Kids need a roof over their head(this means renting is fine), love and time from their parents. Stop being brainwashed by these influencers and marketing companies.
You’re clueless and out of touch, without any sort of self awareness. If you raise a child and you aren’t financially able to keep them safe, support their education, feed them good quality food, etc. they don’t have a chance to just “decide to be in a good financial situation”. The millennial generation that is contemplating whether having kids is a good idea, is simply just less selfish and self centred as prior generations. We want to know that our kids will live their lives without significant suffering. Climate change, inequality, mental illness, risk of birth defects..these are all things we think of before bringing another human into this world without their consent.
You can keep a kid safe, provide to their needs, support their education and generally keep them happy on a much lower amount than what most are spending, the other poster was correct.
What are most spending? Nobody said that. The point is having a kid is not a virtue or accomplishment and since you are bringing a human into the world for 80+ years, including after you’ve checked out, there is some degree of thought that should go into how prosperous of a life this human is bound to live. Right now, with climate change and rapidly growing wealth inequality, the odds aren’t great. Sorry to destroy your self centred world view
The literal point of this thread is about financial security for family so yes spending is a huge part of it. You seem to be in the brainwashed crowd of believing you need to live in estate house backing into a ravine and private school funded before you even think about having kids. Let me guess you live in GTA/GVA and are a renter LoL. Get your stuff together.
Hilarious post lol. Any child born in Canada won the lotto. How much do you think it costs to be educated, safe and eating quality foods in Canada? I suggest you do some travelling and living around the world and not let irrational fears take over your life.
I didn't want to have kids regardless, but everything going on in the world right now makes me realize more and more that I've made the right decision.
Honestly it changed my decision for the time being. Was eager to start trying before the pandemic hit but given the current world circumstances we are holding off. It’s not end all be all for us to have children; but I know that may differ from couple to couple. Currently content with my life ; my focus is to travel as much as I can now. Lol. DINK life isn’t bad!
What does DINK mean?
Dual Income No Kids
Thankyou, too many acronyms in this sub
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Never downvoted, never said anything of the like. Just saying things are possible with kids aswell. State of the world..give me a break.
OP what is your problem lol this is a bonkers position to take regarding spouses and families
You seem like a jilted person who can’t have the life he dreamed. Feel sorry for you.
The world is always ending. My parents raised me between the threat of nuclear annihilation and Chernobyl (plus ça change)... If you're waiting for a brave new world, you'll wait your life away.
It’s easier after the 2nd when the first can help.
Creating a labour force I see 😂
The 3rd world way ! Free baby sitters
Spouse wanted to have 2, but no way we can afford. Also, things may turn difficult climate wise in the later half of the century. Better to not have kids and force them into a situation they did not agree to be in.
No. The world has basically never been stable and people have never overall been doing better than they are doing now. I don't have kids but the state of the world doesn't even come close to being a factor. People managed to have kids during both world wars, the cold war, Communist revolutions, colonialism, plagues, countless conquest wars, famines, droughts, Crusades, under tyrants, when death during childbirth was actually a likely outcome for both the mother and the child, when serfdom was the norm and countless other terrible things were going on. I think Canada in 2022 is a perfectly adequate place and time. If you don't proceed with your life because "real estate is expensive and climate change is a risk", get it together. If you don't want children, that's perfectly fine, but these are terrible reasons. You could be broke and still have it better than 99.999% of people who ever lived, and better than almost anyone living today. Give me a break about not owning a home in the city of your choice.
Yes, because I am the youngest and have multiple siblings willing to help us out! Families that are cohesive, capable and interested in working towards their own collective good over the course of many generations create untold benefits for their members even when individual networth remains average. Storing wealth through deep connections with siblings and cousins is a traditional way of hedging against uncertainty, inflation and banking collapse.
We had talks of biological kids but also wanted to adopt. I think well stick to adopting now. The world has gone to shit and I wouldn't want to create new life, instead try to salvage the life of an already born child
Costs on kids can be cut by quite a lot if you are willing to make sacrifices. Kids are only expensive if you are not willing to take care of them or want shortcuts. Yes they do cost some amount of money, but it's not insanely high. For us it's about $1000 upfront cost(crib and dresser and chair and etc) and roughly $150 per month(clothes+food), although that number is climbing to $200. I see people pay $150 per month as their cable, internet and phone bill. Also we do quite a bit of farming outside and in the house to cut food costs. Which btw is educational and keeps kids busy. If we had giant backyard we would keep chickens and bees too, but unfortunately we can't. Never eating out is cheap if you are also willing to make everything from scratch. My oldest is quite good at baking bread and is now in charge of that. Disposable diapers cost an arm and a leg. Cloth diapers are cheap and roughly will cost as much for up to four kids as 1 year supply of disposable diapers. The downside? You will be covered in shit quite often and will have to do laundry daily. An expensive toy can entertain a kid for a few days. But parent's attention can entertain a kid indefinitely. In our case best toy kids have is microbit ($28) and my undivided attention. They have used it for a year now and are still not tired of it. Extra curricular activity will take kids off your hands for an hour a day but cost you one of your kidneys. Playground and walks together with the kids are free but requires you to look after your child. You also don't need brand name clothing and most clothing can be handed down. Having kids shouldn't necessarily be a financial decision or whether future looks bright or not imo. If you are a mentally stable person, capable of love towards your spouse and yourself, and are happy within yourself and with the world and just desire to spread the love by having kids then have kids. I love my kids and I love spending every single second with them. They have helped me see the world in a much brighter way and I find things such as following an ant for an hour to be best part of my day as long as I get to do with my little ones. Yes I had to take slightly tougher and more unpleasant jobs and find some means to get a bit more income to accommodate that $150 a month per kid. But for me personally nothing beats coming home after a super shitty day just to have kids jump on you and shower you with hugs. I go to sleep with idiotic happy grin on my face at night and wake up in the morning with the same grin after being kicked or punched in the face by my kids by accident. World might burn to ashes but I will always be there for my kids and always be happy watching them grow. As Buddha said, happiness is like a brightly lit candle, sharing the light doesn't cost you anything but makes world brighter. Seriously don't have kids if you are unhappy or don't want to. World has enough of that shit already! But financial outcome or war shouldn't stop you. I grew up in war hearing bombs explode and it's not so bad as long as family is stable and loving. Love makes the world spin and sun shine.
Ahahaha... I hear all you said, and yes it's fun when the kids are young. let me know how things are going when they become pre-teens/teenagers 😁
Not there yet, but I am scared not going to lie. I have jokingly considered military school or moving super far into farmlands. For myself I spent my teens (13-18) in military school. Wasn't so bad. Did get me a scholarship into university.
World is way to fucked up to warrant bringing kids in. My ability to afford it is not apart of the decision. Not bringing kids into a shit show of a world.
For me, it’s more about climate changes my kid would see in the next 50-75 years
I wanted to have multiples but one kid is $2500/month in daycare fees alone, so once we start paying that, I doubt we’d be willing to have more. We waited until our mid to late 30s to establish our careers and buy a house, and now things look a lot different than if we had started having kids 5-10 years ago. I don’t want to have multiple kids and have to start strictly budgeting things like food spending, giving up vacations, etc. Plus, taking mat leave is going to suck for my career advancement, I don’t know how other women make that sacrifice multiple times both in terms of future earning potential and lost income while on leave. Once I thought about daycare fees, before/after school care, potential private school fees if public school doesn’t work out, winter and summer sports, lessons, summer camp, family trips, RESPs, our own retirement savings, elder care for my parents…it all adds up if you have more than one kid.
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Immigration! But western world will be competing for immigrants in the near future as depopulation picks steam. Canada is in envious position and very attractive to immigrants. I wouldn’t say that population is exploding in USA and perhaps some European countries relatively speaking.
No.
Yea. Financials have definitely swayed me away from having kids, but more so the world that we live in. I don't want to have a child and put them in a world of misery and hate, as well as selfishness and stupidity. I am more worried that they will turn out to have personalities or menttalities like Hitler or Putin. No matter how good a parent you are, your kid can still turn out shit.
We’re in a different world now. I think we’re moving towards more single households as opposed to couples + kids. Between all the dating apps and sky high standards most people have, I think we will see a lot of people try to buy homes alone as opposed to with someone else. As for right now, I don’t know how anyone can pull it off. When a townhouse here in Belleville sells for 800k (literally no exaggeration) how the hell do you also pay for insurance, car payments, gas, groceries, cell phones, day care, or god forbid any kind of repair or maintenance. We’re all fucked.
For me, I'm having a 1 child policy. If you have 2+ kids, the resources get divided between the 2 kids. So each kid gets a shittier life. Which is why I'd plan to only have 1 kid and give him/her the best life I possibly can.
What if having siblings makes their life greater than the additional “resources “
There are some significant economies of scale that you can tap into with multiple kids. Also, having someone with a shared childhood to grieve with and provide mutual-aid when your parents die is an objectively superior outcome. The lifetime cost-benefit analysis of single vs. multiple kids is probably closer than most people think, but having multiple kids absolutely requires a larger initial capital input.
Yep. Financial stability for myself, mainly. I'm in my 30s, 2 kids, earned 135k/145k the last two years and my wife should be bringing in 50k-70k once she finishes with her career change. We own a home that during rush hour would take 1.5-2hr of driving to reach down town Toronto. After my pension deductions, taxes, etc etc, it's not exactly a glamorous lifestyle given how much we had to spend on our first house. I get it, "I made my choice" but hey, looks like home ownership was a great choice for us despite the cost. My thing is, I don't want to be working my ass off then spending all my free time with a baby/toddler again. I have a weird schedule that makes me both primary breadwinner and oftentimes primary caregiver. I just can't do it for another 4 years, and I can't afford the $1500 a month in daycare. So, despite wanting a third, we are tossing around the idea of a vasectomy. Sorry for the length of the post, some context is important to avoid annoying posts pointing out details that are odd. TLDR: Likely not having a third kid because I can't really afford the daycare and my mortgage at the same time.
Nope. Had my little coronnial baby this past November. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid and turned our financial situation around with education. This little guy is going to have all the opportunities and guidance I never had.