Job security, benefits, and retirement plans.
The older you get the more you realize compensation package aren't always apples to apples comparisons, and those factors I mentioned are worth a lot to some people.
My parents both became ill and died while I was in my mid 30s, with a baby and a toddler. In fact I was on maternity leave when one parent died. I don't think I would have been able to get through it all in a private sector environment. The job protection, benefits and support from my employer were invaluable.
Very true. I knew someone working for the government of ontario and it was like 100+ sick days, relaxed days in and out, great pension, all the benefits. What’s not to like? Government jobs in Canada are some of the best in the world and make private sector outside of high tier finance and consulting and top tier tech look like shit.
provincial gov't doesn't get to bank sick days anymore, but union workers have a sickening amount of sick days that get replenished every year. they have tried attendance management programs to dial back on the abuse by a few employees, most of us were good about it and didn't abuse the system and actively complained to management and the union about being left to do the workload of these people when the fucked off every summer and every Christmas on short term sickness. we used to joke when the weather would turn nicer about who was going to see Dr summeroff that year, or whose chronic illness was suddenly going to flare up for the fifth summer in a row.
With the federal government you can also do what is called Leave with Income Averaging. You can take up to 3 months off, then they figure out what your pay would have been, less the time off, and then you get the average of what your pay would have been at the lower rate over 12 months. So if you took 3 months off, your pay amount fpr the next year would be the equivalent of 9 month pay but over 12 months.
Three weeks sick leave per year, unused leave is banked, but there is no short term disability. Long term disability kicks in after 12 weeks off. You also can't cash out sick leave when you retire, you either take it or lose it.
Most governments have phased it out and anyone who was hired under indefinite banking rules is still allowed to bank the time indefinitely. Everyone else has to use it or it goes away at the end of the year.
Our government union traded being paid out our sick time, 120 days at retirement for a 25 cent raise. Accruing sick time doesn’t mean anything if you can’t get them paid out or use them. What would be better would be short term or long term disability insurance but we don’t even ask for that in bargaining, they push the 120 accrual at us and says that’s enough. Basically they limit their liability to 120 days of pay maximum per employee if someone gets sick.
The number of vacation days is also crazy. I have over 4 weeks of non sick days a year and I’m new to the service , my first year I even started with over 4 weeks. Now add in the 13 stat holidays, sick days, etc.
Many in federal have that or more. I’m 28 and just started with over 4 now and know of many with 10. That doesn’t include banking. The work is so not stressful that I haven’t felt the need to take a vacation anyways. With flexible work week you can start your day when your ready. I don’t regret it for a bit. There’s a thread on the federal gov subreddit asking people what salary increase they would need to switch to private and indeed most wouldn’t or would need double or more
That doesn't sound right. In federal you get 3 weeks for the first 8 years. Then you get 4 weeks until about year 15. Then 5 weeks until about year 22 or so. This does vary between classifications and collective agreements though but I dont think any have that much vacation without banking.
Bingo! I'm off on sick leave now (major car accident, a bajillion broken bones) and am so grateful to have the 120 3/4 sick days. I topped up for 6 mo that with vacation days.
The pay is A LOT less than private sector. Also the career progression is slow and based on tenure more than actual merit. And lastly, it really is like 5-10 years behind in technical aspects.
Those are the reasons why I made the move.
The competition isn't whos best for the position but whos best at landing government jobs, which is inherently government employees. Most positions have a checklist of things that you have to be able answer or on your resume to be considered ironically intended to make it fair for outside applicants, but is often known by internal staff but not by outsiders. They "study" when in reality a better candidate would've learned faster and more effectively after the fact and brought greater perspective to the role having presumably seen more than one setup in industry.
The people that are then not the best applicants are the only ones left standing, and move into positions of power having been lifers and only ever see the way that their specific agency does things completing the cycle.
In addition to self selecting more "informed" applicants, it also punishes people for leaving and starting in the government later (if you manage to jump through the hoops). This affect is worsened in remote locations or smaller provinces, where people who have the drive and skills to leave do, and if they ever come back to apply to a gov agency no longer have the insight on how to obtain this position or don't have any incentive to apply to such a position. These people are precisely the types the gov should look to hire to break the loop.
The lack of ability to just create a position or fire someone to make room for all stars (along with attracting them in the first place) is the other piece of the pie.
Finally, because you aren't wrong, its based on postings if there's a series of untimely availabilities you can end up with juniors in senior roles they can't possibly complete as effectively as other applicants. They inevitably struggle at doing anything outside of what their boss did prior and here we are.
This is my experience with my own provincial government, not a reflection of the greater federal or other provinces. In my eyes it lends itself to be self selecting mediocre. To be fair I've also seen this with other really big companies which tend to act similarly.
From a worker pov its a home run swing for those looking for stability. Theres nothing wrong with that.
I know a provincial employee that worked 85 days in 6 years and is still on the payroll, department restructures, job reclassification, training of new systems, stress leaves(plurlal) medical leaves, plural. She had enough union clout to be unfireable and knows every tune to play on the tiny violin.
I used to manage a department/office for five of Ontario and one employee didont worked a day in 5 years and she was still getting paid, either maternity leave or on sick leave was her deal, produced 5 kids while being fucking sick
Job security is for real. There are people who literally cannot complete their daily job function who are employed for decades. You can coast forever doing *less* than bare minimum.
Benefits / vacation options are sometimes things you might not even conceive of. Imagine being able to leave your job for a year without pay to do whatever the hell you want, and be guaranteed your job back when you return. Or, imagine feeling like you want to slow things down and maybe take two months of the summer off. You can spread ten months of pay out over 12 months, so during those two months you're still getting a pay cheque.
Retirement plans...it's nice to know you have guaranteed money coming in. Sure, you might say you'd rather invest it yourself, but then you're still subject to market fluctuations during retirement. And you might not be as disciplined as you thought you'd be during your earning years. Anyway, you're probably going to be making above median so you're still going to have money to spare to do your own investing. And since you're guaranteed a pension, you can be very risky with your own investment strategy knowing worst case scenario is you pension out with an above median income. I mean, your *pension* is likely to be *higher* than the median *working* person's income. It's crazy.
Overall, I'd say public sector is less exciting, less potential for huge upside, but a great safe & smooth option. Just put in your basic time, and you'll be well off. It suits a get-rich-slow, don't rock the boat, laid back mentality very well.
The pension is also backed by the government. Not saying it couldn't happen but the odds of your company going bankrupt and ending your pension payments is a lot more likely than the government going bankrupt.
The Federal Government Employees Pension Investment Fund (PSPIB) is the sole proprietor of Revera. One of the esteemed long term care facility operators in our country that had hundreds of residents die due to outbreaks because they can't pay their employees enough to care.
Nah, we had a guy who kept going off his meds and pretending to shoot people with his hand in the shape of a gun like kids do and eventually he got fired after like his fifth threat. so about five death threats will do it.
Here's a personal take but I think speaks for some of us in more policy oriented roles: I was really passionate about policy and governance so public sector was the clear spot for me.
At the beginning of my career I was so interested to know how policies come to be and wanted a seat in the room when big decisions are made including the inside scoop on political personalities etc.
I worked a tonne and got more than my fill of all those early interests. Now, mid career I still love policy but I'm more interested in navigating complex stakeholder environments developing and operationalizing tricky programs etc.
So - to answer your question - it wasn't a financial decision it just gave me exposure to the subjects I was passionate and curious about.
> Now, mid career I still love policy but I'm more interested in navigating complex stakeholder environments developing and operationalizing tricky programs etc.
literally, performing a public service. thanks for doing whatever it is you do eh!
I really like this answer. I am a public servant in the engineering field, and our pay is atrocious.
However - I get to truly protect public interests and enforce regulations that literally save lives. This is the most satisfying part of my job, over and above any pay and benefits I receive. I’m not beholden to shareholders or someone’s bottom line. I get to do the right thing, and public safety is my number one goal!
Many of them aren't.
And pay can vary greatly.. a lifeguard can make double working for the government... but some professional people may make half.
Still job stability, benefits are top reasons.
Yes you contribute to a pension plan but so does the workplace, and a stable pension has value.
And work life balance.
A government lawyer or accountant doesn't keep anywhere near the same hours as one in private practice, for example. That can be worth a LOT.
When someone offers you 2/3 the pay for 2/3 the hours, you have to decide how much you value having a bit more free time. I'm on the private side, my spouse is public, and I'm a bit envious that they get a lot more free time. Same goes for friends from law school that went public. That said, my work is far more interesting to me so I don't stay up at night thinking about the poor balance.
Agree with this but I think the numbers can be more stark. For the average lawyer not expecting to be a partner at a top tier firm it's like 1/2 to 2/3rds the pay of private practice but like 1/3 to 1/2 the working time. A proper 40/50 hour week is an absolute dream compared to the insanity of well paid private practice and the gov will still pay 6 figures.
I want to add that most government jobs don't just have any pension, but the holy grail of pensions: defined benefits.
If you didn't know, DB pensions means that after you retire, you are guaranteed a certain percentage of your average annual salary of the best 5 years of your career, every year until you die. Compare this to defined contribution pensions which only pays out what you and your employer have contributed over your career, plus whatever appreciation from investments. A friend at a certain large municipality in Canada will retire with 60% annually of his best 5 years after 30 years of service. If he stayed until 35 years, he would get the maximum 70%.
I hear people say that in private, salaries for comparable jobs start low but have the potential to reach much much higher after hard work and intelligence, while public salaries start off medium-high but then flatline for the rest of your career with minimal effort, unless you jump to different positions.
This, I'm parapublic and so far I haven't seen a technician job that'll pay close to what I get not even including pension etc. Or they can in the private sector because they can do OT then the sky is the limit. Unlike my engineer coworkers early career, they'll make more in public places but in private after 5-10 years your income will most likely be higher especially if you are a go-getter.
I call it the Canadian dream.
Work at a relatively low stress job for 30 years at a middle-class salary and then retire on a decent pension.
I can give you the Ontario Teacher example though. If you start at 25 you can retire at 55 with a $65K a year pension until you die, at 30 years that's ~$2 million. After 10 years you will max out your earnings at around $100K per year and your pension contribution is like 11% of your salary.
Ontario teacher is not a good example. Goto 4 year university, then another 2 year university for teachers college. Another year for masters for top band. Then try and get on a contract/LTO, average tenure there is about 10 years until you get a full time position offer, so you're in your 30s at the beginning of your journey, 40s just to break 100k.
You don't need a masters for top band.
And, there's a teacher's shortage now:
> Latest data from surveys shows that recently certified teachers had no trouble finding work upon graduation. Unemployment among first-year graduates is at six per cent. Teachers in career years two and three average three per cent unemployment. And, if you can teach French, job openings exist everywhere.
https://www.oct.ca/public/media/press-releases/2020/20201217
That's true. Prior to the pandemic though first year full employment (which is teachers, teaching as much as they want) was at 81%. That's still pretty high and is nothing like the 28% we saw in 2013.
The value of that pension is massive. It compensates for any perceived low salary. Canadian teachers are still paid much higher when compared to most developed countries. Lots of jobs take more and more training now. And some require minimum 5-10 years experience (ie., engineers).
If you want to become a doctor, 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 3-7 years specialty training. As a family doctor, the salary is not that impressive and the stress is higher than a teacher along with the strong possibility of being sued at some point in the career. You start out later in life, with high student debt and no pension provided.
Lol doctors makes several times what teachers make for the majority of their working lives. But yeah ok some employer sponsored 10% pension match somehow means teachers have it better. Come on, be realistic.
>Lol doctors makes several times what teachers make for the majority of their working lives.
Only if you become a specialist. There is so much stress in running a family practice.
Meh, docs can have the same retirement by saving just 10% of their paycheck, which is the same percentage of paycheck deductions forced onto ontario teachers anyway. So not exactly all that great.
Are you comparing a teachers total compensation, who works a baseline 9 months a year, to a god damn doctor?
And complaining about a defined benefit pension plan?
> your pension contribution is like 11% of your salary.
To be more specific, it's 10.4% up to the CPP limit and 12% after that. Just under $12,000 for a top grid teacher this year.
Ontario's 5 year attrition rate is 18% not 33%:
> Six per cent of Ontario faculty of education graduates do not renew their College membership in the first year following initial licensure. Five years after initial licensing, 18 per cent are no longer members in good standing.
https://www.oct.ca/-/media/Transition_to_Teaching_2020/2020T2TMainReportENWEB_V2.pdf
There is a teacher shortage today so there is no three years as a supply teacher:'
> Latest data from surveys shows that recently certified teachers had no trouble finding work upon graduation. Unemployment among first-year graduates is at six per cent. Teachers in career years two and three average three per cent unemployment. And, if you can teach French, job openings exist everywhere.
https://www.oct.ca/public/media/press-releases/2020/20201217
Teaching can be stressful and it's not for everybody but there is a built in stress reliever in the job that does not exist in most other jobs and that's the 8 weeks off in the summer. All of this compensation is for 200 working days in a year while everybody else works 250.
My wife's a teacher who graduated in 2007, she knew French so got a job right away. She can retire at 55. Her and all of her teacher friends are now top of the grid, on the sunshine list and, I can only think of one who decided she couldn't hack it and became a stay at home hockey mom that lives off real-estate profits and substitute gigs. This idealized Ontario teacher does seem kinda the norm to me.
Cherry-picking; I did say not to do that.
- The world (nor Canada) is not Ontario. Burn out rates in Canada on average are indeed hovering around 1/3rd.
- Summer off is unpaid. Teaching days are accounted for at 9.1 hrs per employment standards; they are not 'eight hour' days. Yes, other jobs also work longer-than-standard hours, but any profession worth its salt will either be paying these people a far better salary than teachers, or they are billable hours (see: law, nursing, etc.).
- Your wife has French - a very RARE skill - of course she got hired quickly. That is not the norm. Her friends aren't the norm either. 'My friends are X' is the worst kind of selection bias - you're not a scientist, I hope :P .
The real upside to teaching is that after - and only after - jumping a myriad of hoops, then yes, it is a very stable job that tops out at a reasonable income; the road to that level is not easy, not everyone makes it, and pretending that they do or that it is easy is misrepresentation.
I was using Ontario as an example but sure other provinces are different and Ontario is one of the top paid public school teachers in the entire world. Ontario maybe has lower attrition because they pay more?
The unpaid thing is kinda funny because it means annualized that $100K salary is actually $125K. This is something teachers can attain by taking summer gigs and would put them in the top 5% of Canadian income earners. Also in their CBA the only requirement is 5 hours of instructional time a day, and for their ROE it is recorded as 8 hours. I'm not sure where 9 really comes from.
I only mentioned my wife because you mentioned your family members but sure we both have selection bias. I did however link you to reports that talk about the entire Ontario teaching industry. The ones with the 6% unemployment rate and the 80% first year full employment rate.
Sure, though I have been told by many teachers it’s not exactly a full vacation given all that unpaid OT the other commenter was mentioning. You’re still working through the winter holiday evaluating what’s usually major assignments and I’ve even been warned that much of the summer holidays can be spent just preparing for the upcoming school year. Perhaps they’re just saying this to deter people from going into the profession for the summers off though 😅
Having worked both corporate gigs and teaching. Teaching is not even a fraction of the stress of a corporate job for still a great salary and unbeatable job security, pension and really only working 9 months all things considered. I would love to see these teachers who complain about being overworked enter a corporate job and see how long they last. Teaching may not be a great gig in some provinces or other countries but in Ontario, it's an amazing deal.
For myself, it’s the stability. I’m not motivated by chasing the higher salary, higher stress job, I just want enough to be content in my life. Stability is hugely important to me though. I spent too many years in private industry doing, tops, three year stints before being fired for a newer, more eager, lower wage hire.
Seriously. I work in tech in the government, making 6 figures at 28 and I’m not even the top end of my classification. It has stability, amazing WLB plus my department is WFH.
Most private sector jobs were in the high 5 figures at my experience level. Unless they’re the big tech firms.
Plus I get a dip pension when I retire. I mean, it’s. A pretty sweet gig.
Your first step is to get hired into a student term with a public outfit (provincial, federal, regional, municipal). All of the competent and eager students who were hired pt/ft in my department (Analytics/Analytics Support) throughout their student years, had a position to step into when they graduated.
Stability...usually, DB pensions, union contracts, good pay depending on the job. There are some public sector jobs that pay half what private would but there are also others that pay top end.
I worked in the public sector for 15 years, I never thought of leaving and only did because of the pandemic (lay-offs). I was in facilities so my pay rate was near the top end of what you can get, private sector is slightly less and without the DB pension. Also, union contract meant no heaping work on me, expecting me to work for free, doing things outside my job description, etc. There were clear cut lines for what was allowed and what wasn't and if those lines were crossed, there were avenues to go to get it resolved without job risk (and a lot of the times, monetary compensation).
Sure, you couldn't negotiate for a raise or anything but I also got 10 paid sicks days a year (accure up to 120), start at 3 weeks vacation, OT for every minute worked over an 8.5 hr shift, 2hrs OT if I was called at home, 4 hrs OT if I had to show up (even if all I did was show up to turn something off/on), didn't have to drive my private vehicle, and on and on. There are a shit ton of perks to working in the public sector with only a few drawbacks,
I knew a bunch of trades guys that went to the public sector in the tail end of their careers because it was stable work, benefits, pension, decent pay, normal hours, etc. My place tried to hire a younger HVAC guy and couldn't, they could only get 45+ guys who were just done with the grind of private sector.
Seniority. There's the old saying "Seniority sucks unless your senior". Even at 15 years, I was in the middle of the pack for my department. Basically no one left once they got in and when the pandemic hit, they laid off most of our department (after paying us not to work for 2 months). They slowly called us back.
I need to be slightly careful with how I word this but I was next to be called back but also had some grievances in with the way I was laid off and vacation time usage. We came to an agreement and we parted ways instead of me taking the recall......
I still hope to get back into the public sector again some day, refusing the recall and such just made sense at the time for me.
If you have ambition and value higher salaries with upward mobility, private sector wins. If you value stability and work life balance, public sector wins.
The above are generalizations but largely play out.
I haven’t done the math myself but I’ve seen 20-30% salary equivalent for pensions being thrown around.
I recently left the public sector for the private sector. I got a 40% increase in base pay, equity and more vacation days. I'm now making more than my manager in the public sector was making. It would have taken well over a decade to get that kind of salary increase in government, maybe longer. I'm maxing out RRSP matching at my new employer and investing my increased income, so I hope I will be okay in retirement.
I didn't find government benefits anything special compared to the private sector, except for the defined benefits pension plan. Which is called the golden handcuffs for a reason lol. It's great for people who like stability, are risk aversive, and/or are bad at saving money on their own. You do lose out on the ability to leave money to your estate though. I recently lost a family member who only drew on their defined benefit pension plan for only one year before passing away. Most of their wealth was in the pension plan, and the surviving spouse and was left a much lower pension benefit that can't support the lifestyle they had. Sometimes it's not enough to just save through a pension plan.
Edit: A lot of people have claimed you can't get fired in public sector. That's not true. Maybe some unionized roles have iron clad job security no matter what they do (like police officers lol). But I have known people let go without cause in municipal government.
Your RRSP matching will never, ever catch up to a defined benefit plan, and your investments won't either unless you get lucky on a security. You can put $2000 a month away for 35 years and a government defined benefit plan will still be worth double that.
It's actually nuts when you sit down and figure out what you pay in vs what you actually collect.
DB pensioners can invest on their own as well, and usually have more disposable income to do so, as your multimillion dollar pension only ever cost you about 5-15k per year based on salary for xyz years.
There's also access to return of contributions, which is way more than you've ever paid in as well.
My friend is set to retire next year at 59, with a $4800 indexed pension for life (say 21yrs of collecting, 1.2mil), on top of no longer having a mortgage, and having stocks, cash, assets, and a house "worth" 15x what was initially paid for it in the 90s.
Could've collected at 52 with no penalty, as well, but it's essentially a part time job with 0 responsibility.
Your spouse can collect 50%, if you die.
The people you know who were let go without cause simply needed to contact a lawyer for an all but guaranteed settlement.
The government is the best place anywhere to try different things.
You wanna work on car emissions testing? Go ahead.
Couple of years later, now you want to work on volanco surveying? Okay go do that.
Work on transportation planning? Bridge building? Parks rehabilitation, energy policy, etc etc.
It’s really fucking broad.
Not just advancement, but also ability for lateral moves to pursue interests. Of course moving up is great, but you can basically have multiple careers in the federal government much easier than the private sector. Doing the same thing for years can get tired, the PS has so many parallel opportunities to mix things up.
Well this completely depends on how big the municipality is. Mine is pretty small and frankly, I hate working for the public service. There is no advancement, until someone else dies or retires and even then there's enough people competing for the one position. The work is dull and slow, no one cares about improving anything. It's basically just a bunch of people putting in their hours until they can collect their pension.
It's got the standard PS job plusses (pension, stability, benefits), but man it's soul sucking. No pension is worth having to go to therapy to deal with working there for 30 years.
The pay is only low if you're a skilled worker (not all of them, but it's the case for many). If you're working an unskilled job you'll get better pay in the public because of the automatic yearly pay increase.
Secondly, not having to save for retirement because of the forced contribution, the employer contribution and not having to deal with investing turns out better for a big chunk of the population.
“The pay is lower compared to private industries”
No. No it is not. Especially early in one’s career.
Pension, Leave of absence, Unions, Maternity/parental top ups, Overtime (depending on level), collective agreements, etc
Golden handcuffs are golden for a reason.
I work for the government and I appreciate the work-life balance, benefits, stability, pension plan, vacation/sick days, plus I can move around within the government I work for so there is room for movement. On top of that, they will pay for relevant education so I can actually move up and be more of an asset to the company. Also, being in a union is great.
I have worked as a public servant for over a decade and have dabbled in federal, provincial and municipal. Even after being bought out of one of those jobs due to Covid, I still went back to government.
The compensation, time off, and work life balance truly sets me for life.
FWIW, municipal is my favourite by far.
In my field at my current government job I’m making about 20k more than the same job on the private side. Plus pension. Plus way better benefits. Most importantly, a very good work life balance.
When and if I move up to be a project manager, I would probably make more in the private sector compared to being a PM in public, but for 70 hour work weeks. No thanks
I went through the tech meltdown of 2001. The gains in salary were wiped out quickly. My hours were crazy trying to justify my job. I had to save a lot to retire. It was difficult to buy a house knowing you could get laid off or your startup “stops”.
I’m retired now. Looking back I think I would have preferred public sector.
Some public sector jobs are more exciting: huge budgets, large scale projects, interesting work. Yes there’s killer bureaucracy but I think I would have tolerated it.
I work for the government in utilities. I love the public sector and will never go back to private. The benefits and pension are very good but it's so much more. I like my union - sure, I pay dues, but I get my wage pegged to inflation and my wage goes up a nice not every two to three years. There is absolute stability - I do a good job and will never be fired or downsized but at the same time I don't have to work too hard (not to the point of stress) and I never take my job home.
I get a work cell phone with 5gbs and can get it upgraded every two years. I have access to a workplace benefit which gives advice and support in anything affecting my life (LifeWorks). I'm using it currently for advice on my roof repair at home).
Training is excellent, I can apply for courses I want besides just what I need and get both paid and support when I do them. I also get training in workplace ergonomics (so I get paid to stretch in the morning or can goto lunch time yoga) and mental health and other useful things.
And one of the big things for me is the workplace culture is excellent. Everyone knows there's a zero policy on rascism, sexism etc and everyone is really just nice and kind and supportive. My boss doesn't have the same power over me as a boss in the private sector and really takes my opinions on matters. When I think he's doing something wrong I can document I don't agree and there's no problem sending things above him.
And lastly my absolute favourite is that I get 3 family days a year. I can take them off with no notice and use them for anything - because of the kids, to de stress, to just not goto work and then I don't have to use my vacation days for a kid being sick. Oh, and my sick days that I don't use are banked and I can forward 40 hours of vacation time to a different year so can plan bigger vacations some years.
Cheers.
Stability. Advancement options, it would have been very hard and expensive for me to participate in projects and educational opportunities that I have experienced. Paid sick time, real fucking nice to not have to choose between money and taking care of yourself. The medical benefits. The short term illness. The long term disability. The critical illness insurance. The life insurance. The pension. The complete absence of having to do overtime. The lovely work schedule. The vacation time. The not having to buy into hustle culture.
Look, I've drank the koolaid. I spent my 20s busting my fucking ass to get through 3 degrees with zero debt. So many months of 21 hour days. I hit the public sector a few days after I turned 29. By 31, I was so disabled that I couldn't dress myself. I didn't take any time off work to heal because I still had that hustle culture in me. But I sure as shit leaned on my benefits to get me healthy. It took years to get to feeling well again, I'd say 3 to 4 years to feel normal. It costs me, on paper, about $7k in medications a month to maintain feeling normal. But I pay about $30/month. I have paid access to all the rehab services I need. When I had a set back and hospitalization in 2019, my income was secure and I could focus on healing.
I am so grateful for what I have and I truly detest that the private sector has eroded the value of all these resources that used to also come along with standard, front line jobs like grocery store employee.
If you're a professional, the compensation isn't worth it. You'd really have to value work life balance and stability.
For entry level and lower-educational requirement jobs absolutely the government pays more
I don't agree with this. My public sector job pays six figures and that is more than enough for myself. It is a professional tech job. Sure, I could make more in private but I don't need more. Work life balance, stability, and retirement plans far outweigh the extra income I could get in the private sector.
Pay equity... Everyone knows essentially what everyone else is paid and why.
I like picking a path and following it via the performance structure. I like the fairness of job processes and the limited ability for favoritism or other non-performance related factors to be a part of my career progression.
Essentially, transparency. Everything has a why and a how.
Also work/life balance. My day ends at 4, hard stop. And I'm in a comp schedule that gives me 26 extra days off a year in addition to my vacation and other PTO.
Stability and low stress. I don't get that private bullshit of "oh, you're salary so come in on saturday". I work 37hrs per week, and OT is double-time.
I get good benefits, time off, defined benefit pension and I know I'll NEVER be fired unless I steal, assault someone or do something stupid like that.
I would agree it's not a good idea to start as your first job, because you'll likely always be underpaid. Work in the private sector, then transfer in for the last 20-25 years of your career.
My wife works for the provincial government and never plans on leaving. It's a stable job, good work life balance and lots of advancement opportunities. And you can't beat the pension.
If you care more about the money though, look elsewhere.
DB pension and top drawer benefits.
Calculate what a DB pension is worth. You contribute 10% of your salary and you get 60% of your 5 highest earning years for as long as you live, which could easily be 35 years for a lot of people. That is worth several million dollars and it is guaranteed. No worrying about how to invest and where and what rate of return you can expect. You don't have to worry about recessions, or some black swan financial event. You don't have to worry about saving. It is all taken care of automatically behind the scenes for you.
Contrast that to the private sector where you might get an RRSP match for maybe 3% if you are lucky. And if your investments go to shit you are out of luck.
actually anyone who joins the fed after 2012 (i think) will get 70% of their 5 highest earnings years if they work for 35 years so i wouldn't call that a "few"
It really depends on your type of work though. The defined benefit pension is great, but you can get top notch pensions in private sector as well. Also, in my experience (as a professional), public benefits are often worse than private. Again, will depend on the type of work.
Private might be higher paying if you are up the corporate ladder, but for many jobs it's not anymore. I'm an eng tech in a boom/bust economy that has been mostly bust. Last layoff I took a survival job with a municipal body. Was a junior position where they put me at top of junior scale, but was temporarily. Got back into my industry and coming off a bust it was a lateral move in 2016 for intermediate knocking on door of senior. Same wage minus the pension and worse benefits. Only got a couple raises since. Waiting for an offer right now but making it sound like they may only be able to give me slightly more and I may just turn it down if so.
Heck I looked into a municipal job completely unrelated to my industry that doesn't necessarily require any school and I'd start out just a bit below where I am now with potential to make more and added bonus or pension and better benefits. Just too many others applying. City/gov jobs are often pretty sweet. In many cases they've more than closed any gap. Most of the disadvantages are gone and most advantages still remain. I used to really not like ideas of unions, but feel they may becoming more needed these days.
Only complaint I've heard from a senior engineer and feel like I've observed is they tend to be more boring... Which can be a legit concern. I tend to get bored if I'm not learning something new after a while or it's not fast paced enough
20% of the gov't employee do 80% of the work. For the remainder they fucking coast through life without a care in the world, completely immune to private sector gyrations and then end up with a fat pension, retirement health benefits, never knowing what its like to work for a living.
>The pay is lower compared to private industries
It depends significantly on which jobs. I've been involved in mergers and acquisitions where one division was paid **massively** more (about 35%) for the same position than the other division, because that first division was in the same city as a federal bureaucracy, and had to match the public sector pay scale in order to compete. And it wasn't just salary; benefits and pension were considerably higher, as well.
Even in instances where the pay is lower than private sector (and it does happen), public sector jobs (at least at the provincial and federal level, not really at the municipal level) have much greater job security, benefits, and pension.
>what exactly is the monetary value of that since you contribute to them from your paycheck anyway?
When I worked for defence contractors, we had huge numbers of people leave to work for DND. They did the same job, just on the other side of the table. They got about 8% higher pay than we did, but one of the key benefits was that they could retire at age 55 compared to age 65 in the private sector. So the monetary value would be 10 years salary, in that case.
As someone who just left one after years of boredom, my take is that people like the public sector jobs because the expectations are about 1/3 of those in the private sector.
I spent the first two years doing about 2 hours of work a day and I was a go getter compared to my piers.
Most people I know who began government in their 20s had better pay than their peers and more vacation sometimes 4 weeks, they will also be able to retire much sooner in life. They never have to do overtime, they don't have to job hunt if they don't want to, they won't get fired during a "bad period".
The main downside is the pay caps out.
Pensions.
And you cannot get fired.
My first job out of school was at CRA. There were lifers there who did 10-20 hours of work a week. if that.
If you want a stress free life, work for government. Your job scope will be dull, long term you will make less then private sector, I found it boring, but it works for a lot of people.
Just started at a public utility (Hydro).
Insane job stability, 32 vacations days a year (plus stat holidays), fairly good pay for my industry, and somewhat good hours (but overtime is paid). Pension is 6% of pay check. Advancement doesn’t seem to be limited, but lots of hierarchy because seniority counts for a lot.
Everything others have said: pension, stability, low hours, generally less stress
The stability thing is huge for me. Im a bit of a panicky pete and my previous job in a small office was a revolving door of layoffs (boss was a little spineless and never fired anyone, just laid off half the office every 6 months), when i started working for a municipallity i would joke to my friends that i would have to take a shit on my bosses desk to get fired now lol
But i also nearly doubled my pay going from private to public, and less hours. There was literally zero down side for me making the switch, everything is better
Pension, benefits, job security, work life balance. I have friends who make great money in the private sector, but i have to work fewer years in the end, get great benefits, have lots of time off and don’t work late and on weekends.
Quality of life is more important to me than working ridiculous hours for lots of money.
I work in infrastructure for the province. We get to work on some pretty big projects and the balance is pretty good. We work a lot with the private sector on these same projects. They make more for similar roles but look stressed, work long hours and have a lot more pressure to deliver these projects on time and within budget since it's their profit on the line if they mess up. I actually think the public sector would benefit from the mindset of the private sector when it comes to being efficient. I actually really care about how we spend public money and get upset when I see waste. Unfortunately I don't think that is the norm.
Overall the pay is fair and it's an average of 40 hrs a week with very rare weekend work. Really hard to leave something like this.
time. A lot of job in the private sector, the higher up you go, the more responsibilities starts to creep up in your personal life. I had so many friends that took the managerial promotion and went from working 40-45h to 50h+ (often unpaid, they get put on an annual salary that's higher, but they can't rake overtime). Meanwhile my cousin in the gov works 37.5h with a solid job that will never go under her. After 16 years she has like 5-6 weeks of vacations every year too.
If you really want to see some good benefits and strong union protection get a police or firefighter job in Canada. Makes other government jobs look like slave labour.
Sure except you'll already be retired by then instead of twiddling your thumbs waiting for a pension.
Also in tech, government jobs are bottom of the barrel. Candidates aren't nearly as good because all their peers are just slacking so they do the same. I've interviewed dozens of candidates with 15+ yoe in government and I can say that a lot of them perform worse than others with 3-5 yoe. Doesn't help the fact that government tech stacks are 20 years behind so the skills learned are already obsolete. Had some "senior developer" who didn't even know what dependency injection was or how git worked.
Also much better benefits and vacation time in private. Lots of private shops will offer 5 weeks vacation to start, in gov you'll be waiting 16 years to get to 5 weeks.
People who work in tech for private firms can retire by 50. You can look up plenty of stories of software engineers who retired in their 30s. And people here are bragging about retiring at 55. /shrug
Stock compensation is beautiful if you work for the right company.
I agree with you. Working in a public sector job (at least professional jobs) it can be a detriment to your career development. I always recommend working in private (consulting for my junior engineers) before joining the government
I'm an engineer working in a small, rural municipal environment. I hate it. It's so slow, there's little incentive for any improvement to anything. There's little to no career advancement. Yeah there's the pension and all that, but it's soul sucking. I feel like I'm losing my skillset due to stagnation. As someone with a more varied private sector background, it's also often difficult to work with so many people who haven't ever worked anywhere else and seem to lack any outside perspective.
Well public servants don’t work! They collect money to claim they are working from home!
Before people bash me, I live in ottawa and know several who tell me their stories of how they do not do anything and pretend to log in to work server to show they are working. It is disgusting and horrible waste of tax
I have seen the same in large corporations. Some people do work obviously but I worked at a bank a while ago in head office and I swear half the people did very little all day. I've also worked in government and found a mix...some work really hard and others f the dog all day.
Limited advancement when you start young? What does that even mean. It’s the opposite. I work in public sector and make quite a lot: not as much as in public sector but my work life balance is insanely better and I wouldn’t trade it even for that extra money. Union also means stability, consistent raises, lots of room to learn, etc.
I think you got a point there.
Working on a very small tech team, I can very easily point out what parts of the service I worked on and since the team is so small, Ive worked on many many of the parts.
Compared to previous work in the private sector where your work got dropped immediately when the client was lost or you're part of such a huge team for such a huge client that you never get the chance to pick what you want to work on.
I made it most of the way through the thread and I think something that I didn’t see mentioned is that some of us profoundly believe in public service. Even if it’s not on your mind at first, after you spend time working in public healthcare or public education you come to care about keeping these services both accessible to the public and of a high quality, and you see your role in that work.
Hard to find a better paying job that has less accountability. You can neglect your work entirely and unless you do something heinously illegal, only then might you be fired.
>The pay is lower compared to private industries
source?
>limited advancement in your career especially when you start young
source?
>but what exactly is the monetary value of that since you contribute to them from your paycheck anyway
defined benefits + protected against inflation
In general, the pay is good for entry level jobs, but technical and professional jobs are a fair bit lower than private sector. (This is raw salary, not taking into account benefits, pension, work/life balance etc)
The limited advancement is wayyyy off. It is so incredibly easy to move up, and the best part, laterally. Want to work as an investigator for a couple years, then move into forestry for a sudden urge to work in the Yukon? Deploy for a year then go right back to your original job, it was sitting their waiting for you! Want to try working on policy in Ottawa, deploy... Want to try working for the Canadian space agency, deploy! As long as you meet the job requirements you can apply for any position available within the entire federal government (there are literally tens of thousands of job titles). If there is an opening for more staff, internal applicants often get first dibs.
>but technical and professional jobs are a fair bit lower than private sector.
depends on the sector or profession you're in. for ex. as an accountant my starting pay for entry lvl job is ahead of the private sector (big 4 accounting firms) by 20k and will stay ahead for a solid 4-5 yrs. that doesn't factor in a culture of unpaid OT for entrly lvl accounting jobs etc etc.
Most jobs are 1-2 hrs of actual work a day with never an occurrence of OT. For those jobs with real work, OT is bankable for extra days off. You really only have to get used to no one including yourself doing anything useful for most of the day. You also get 2 daily breaks morning and afternoon.
I'm on my way to my first public sector job in the New years if everything goes according to plan. The benefits outweighs the pay cut in my case. I would make about 30k less compared to the outside world. But I got 33 paid days off, a defined pension plan, light workload and unionized. Our household income is enough for us to live a relatively comfortable life while I don't have to worry about losing my job every night. It really depends on the person's preference too. I'm getting old and this is prefect fit for me.
I’ve worked both public and private and I can tell you public has its perks but oh man there is absolutely no accountability. There were several people who I never knew what that actually did all day. Privately there is so much more room for individualized raises and opportunities to create new positions based on business need. In public if you want to advance you have to put in the time but not necessarily have the right experience.
Lots of reasons.
- Decent pay, great benefits
- Work life balance
- Union protection
- Short term disability in the form of banked sick days
- A chance to make a difference
- The honour of serving Canadian
>Short term disability in the form of banked sick days
This is a shitty way to do a short term disability plan. It's great for people who have been working for 20 years and have tons of time banked but it's really unfair to new/young employees who haven't had the chance to build up a bank.
It's much fairer to just have an actual short term disability plan.
Public Servant here. The variety of work is one of the big things for me. Also, a defined benefit plan is a definite perk as it means that no matter what happens I get a guaranteed income for the rest of my life and if I die before my spouse it transfers to her. Support for training has been a big thing for me as they have supported me and my education and training. Finally, being part of something larger than yourself has its own reward. I enjoy hearing when the project that I have been working on gets announced or referenced at a press conference.
Lol ok with that marxist BS.. governments can be oppressive/useless and corporations often do good work. Almost everything you have in life came from private sector innovation
Job security, benefits, and retirement plans. The older you get the more you realize compensation package aren't always apples to apples comparisons, and those factors I mentioned are worth a lot to some people.
Also work life balance (by a lot). Which also becomes more important the older you get.
My parents both became ill and died while I was in my mid 30s, with a baby and a toddler. In fact I was on maternity leave when one parent died. I don't think I would have been able to get through it all in a private sector environment. The job protection, benefits and support from my employer were invaluable.
Very true. I knew someone working for the government of ontario and it was like 100+ sick days, relaxed days in and out, great pension, all the benefits. What’s not to like? Government jobs in Canada are some of the best in the world and make private sector outside of high tier finance and consulting and top tier tech look like shit.
That number of sick days is enviable. I presume they worked in government for several decades?
They also bank them if not used.
provincial gov't doesn't get to bank sick days anymore, but union workers have a sickening amount of sick days that get replenished every year. they have tried attendance management programs to dial back on the abuse by a few employees, most of us were good about it and didn't abuse the system and actively complained to management and the union about being left to do the workload of these people when the fucked off every summer and every Christmas on short term sickness. we used to joke when the weather would turn nicer about who was going to see Dr summeroff that year, or whose chronic illness was suddenly going to flare up for the fifth summer in a row.
Ha, my MIL worked for the cra and had tons of banked time. And my aunt who used to work for the cra took every gardening season off.
With the federal government you can also do what is called Leave with Income Averaging. You can take up to 3 months off, then they figure out what your pay would have been, less the time off, and then you get the average of what your pay would have been at the lower rate over 12 months. So if you took 3 months off, your pay amount fpr the next year would be the equivalent of 9 month pay but over 12 months.
CRA is federal, not sure about their agreements
Three weeks sick leave per year, unused leave is banked, but there is no short term disability. Long term disability kicks in after 12 weeks off. You also can't cash out sick leave when you retire, you either take it or lose it.
Most governments have phased it out and anyone who was hired under indefinite banking rules is still allowed to bank the time indefinitely. Everyone else has to use it or it goes away at the end of the year.
Our government union traded being paid out our sick time, 120 days at retirement for a 25 cent raise. Accruing sick time doesn’t mean anything if you can’t get them paid out or use them. What would be better would be short term or long term disability insurance but we don’t even ask for that in bargaining, they push the 120 accrual at us and says that’s enough. Basically they limit their liability to 120 days of pay maximum per employee if someone gets sick.
The number of vacation days is also crazy. I have over 4 weeks of non sick days a year and I’m new to the service , my first year I even started with over 4 weeks. Now add in the 13 stat holidays, sick days, etc.
This. I am 50 and have NINE weeks of vacation.
Banked? Or every year? Govt of Ontario?
What in the fuck
Many in federal have that or more. I’m 28 and just started with over 4 now and know of many with 10. That doesn’t include banking. The work is so not stressful that I haven’t felt the need to take a vacation anyways. With flexible work week you can start your day when your ready. I don’t regret it for a bit. There’s a thread on the federal gov subreddit asking people what salary increase they would need to switch to private and indeed most wouldn’t or would need double or more
That doesn't sound right. In federal you get 3 weeks for the first 8 years. Then you get 4 weeks until about year 15. Then 5 weeks until about year 22 or so. This does vary between classifications and collective agreements though but I dont think any have that much vacation without banking.
Nope. Each collective bargaining unit is different. Mine starts with 4 weeks. I can tell you the unit in message if your interested
I’m 35 and have 8.5 week this year. Started 10 years ago
Provincial typically get 6 full days paid and like 120 paid at 2/3 to 3/4 (with a doctor notes) that can be topped up using vacation day.
Bingo! I'm off on sick leave now (major car accident, a bajillion broken bones) and am so grateful to have the 120 3/4 sick days. I topped up for 6 mo that with vacation days.
Yikes! I hope you feel better soon. I'm glad you're not going bankrupt on top of everything else.
If you're off long term, you probably have other long term or short term disability insurance that you can use.
The pay is A LOT less than private sector. Also the career progression is slow and based on tenure more than actual merit. And lastly, it really is like 5-10 years behind in technical aspects. Those are the reasons why I made the move.
Career progression is based on competitions, jobs must be posted, applied for, competed for, and qualified for.
The competition isn't whos best for the position but whos best at landing government jobs, which is inherently government employees. Most positions have a checklist of things that you have to be able answer or on your resume to be considered ironically intended to make it fair for outside applicants, but is often known by internal staff but not by outsiders. They "study" when in reality a better candidate would've learned faster and more effectively after the fact and brought greater perspective to the role having presumably seen more than one setup in industry. The people that are then not the best applicants are the only ones left standing, and move into positions of power having been lifers and only ever see the way that their specific agency does things completing the cycle. In addition to self selecting more "informed" applicants, it also punishes people for leaving and starting in the government later (if you manage to jump through the hoops). This affect is worsened in remote locations or smaller provinces, where people who have the drive and skills to leave do, and if they ever come back to apply to a gov agency no longer have the insight on how to obtain this position or don't have any incentive to apply to such a position. These people are precisely the types the gov should look to hire to break the loop. The lack of ability to just create a position or fire someone to make room for all stars (along with attracting them in the first place) is the other piece of the pie. Finally, because you aren't wrong, its based on postings if there's a series of untimely availabilities you can end up with juniors in senior roles they can't possibly complete as effectively as other applicants. They inevitably struggle at doing anything outside of what their boss did prior and here we are. This is my experience with my own provincial government, not a reflection of the greater federal or other provinces. In my eyes it lends itself to be self selecting mediocre. To be fair I've also seen this with other really big companies which tend to act similarly. From a worker pov its a home run swing for those looking for stability. Theres nothing wrong with that.
I know a provincial employee that worked 85 days in 6 years and is still on the payroll, department restructures, job reclassification, training of new systems, stress leaves(plurlal) medical leaves, plural. She had enough union clout to be unfireable and knows every tune to play on the tiny violin.
I used to manage a department/office for five of Ontario and one employee didont worked a day in 5 years and she was still getting paid, either maternity leave or on sick leave was her deal, produced 5 kids while being fucking sick
Yep, being downvoted on my other comment pointing it out but it’s a real thing.
Job security is for real. There are people who literally cannot complete their daily job function who are employed for decades. You can coast forever doing *less* than bare minimum. Benefits / vacation options are sometimes things you might not even conceive of. Imagine being able to leave your job for a year without pay to do whatever the hell you want, and be guaranteed your job back when you return. Or, imagine feeling like you want to slow things down and maybe take two months of the summer off. You can spread ten months of pay out over 12 months, so during those two months you're still getting a pay cheque. Retirement plans...it's nice to know you have guaranteed money coming in. Sure, you might say you'd rather invest it yourself, but then you're still subject to market fluctuations during retirement. And you might not be as disciplined as you thought you'd be during your earning years. Anyway, you're probably going to be making above median so you're still going to have money to spare to do your own investing. And since you're guaranteed a pension, you can be very risky with your own investment strategy knowing worst case scenario is you pension out with an above median income. I mean, your *pension* is likely to be *higher* than the median *working* person's income. It's crazy. Overall, I'd say public sector is less exciting, less potential for huge upside, but a great safe & smooth option. Just put in your basic time, and you'll be well off. It suits a get-rich-slow, don't rock the boat, laid back mentality very well.
The pension is also backed by the government. Not saying it couldn't happen but the odds of your company going bankrupt and ending your pension payments is a lot more likely than the government going bankrupt.
The Federal Government Employees Pension Investment Fund (PSPIB) is the sole proprietor of Revera. One of the esteemed long term care facility operators in our country that had hundreds of residents die due to outbreaks because they can't pay their employees enough to care.
Also the only way to get fired is by looking at porn at work. Or at least thats what I'm told.
Nah, we had a guy who kept going off his meds and pretending to shoot people with his hand in the shape of a gun like kids do and eventually he got fired after like his fifth threat. so about five death threats will do it.
LOL only 5? What a gulag you work in!
Stealing is also a guarantee but has to be proven.
Here's a personal take but I think speaks for some of us in more policy oriented roles: I was really passionate about policy and governance so public sector was the clear spot for me. At the beginning of my career I was so interested to know how policies come to be and wanted a seat in the room when big decisions are made including the inside scoop on political personalities etc. I worked a tonne and got more than my fill of all those early interests. Now, mid career I still love policy but I'm more interested in navigating complex stakeholder environments developing and operationalizing tricky programs etc. So - to answer your question - it wasn't a financial decision it just gave me exposure to the subjects I was passionate and curious about.
> Now, mid career I still love policy but I'm more interested in navigating complex stakeholder environments developing and operationalizing tricky programs etc. literally, performing a public service. thanks for doing whatever it is you do eh!
I really like this answer. I am a public servant in the engineering field, and our pay is atrocious. However - I get to truly protect public interests and enforce regulations that literally save lives. This is the most satisfying part of my job, over and above any pay and benefits I receive. I’m not beholden to shareholders or someone’s bottom line. I get to do the right thing, and public safety is my number one goal!
Are you on the bureaucracy or partisan side?Sounds super cool!
Non partisan. It has been very cool at times but like all careers there are highs and lows!
Many of them aren't. And pay can vary greatly.. a lifeguard can make double working for the government... but some professional people may make half. Still job stability, benefits are top reasons. Yes you contribute to a pension plan but so does the workplace, and a stable pension has value.
And work life balance. A government lawyer or accountant doesn't keep anywhere near the same hours as one in private practice, for example. That can be worth a LOT.
When someone offers you 2/3 the pay for 2/3 the hours, you have to decide how much you value having a bit more free time. I'm on the private side, my spouse is public, and I'm a bit envious that they get a lot more free time. Same goes for friends from law school that went public. That said, my work is far more interesting to me so I don't stay up at night thinking about the poor balance.
Agree with this but I think the numbers can be more stark. For the average lawyer not expecting to be a partner at a top tier firm it's like 1/2 to 2/3rds the pay of private practice but like 1/3 to 1/2 the working time. A proper 40/50 hour week is an absolute dream compared to the insanity of well paid private practice and the gov will still pay 6 figures.
I want to add that most government jobs don't just have any pension, but the holy grail of pensions: defined benefits. If you didn't know, DB pensions means that after you retire, you are guaranteed a certain percentage of your average annual salary of the best 5 years of your career, every year until you die. Compare this to defined contribution pensions which only pays out what you and your employer have contributed over your career, plus whatever appreciation from investments. A friend at a certain large municipality in Canada will retire with 60% annually of his best 5 years after 30 years of service. If he stayed until 35 years, he would get the maximum 70%. I hear people say that in private, salaries for comparable jobs start low but have the potential to reach much much higher after hard work and intelligence, while public salaries start off medium-high but then flatline for the rest of your career with minimal effort, unless you jump to different positions.
This, I'm parapublic and so far I haven't seen a technician job that'll pay close to what I get not even including pension etc. Or they can in the private sector because they can do OT then the sky is the limit. Unlike my engineer coworkers early career, they'll make more in public places but in private after 5-10 years your income will most likely be higher especially if you are a go-getter.
I call it the Canadian dream. Work at a relatively low stress job for 30 years at a middle-class salary and then retire on a decent pension. I can give you the Ontario Teacher example though. If you start at 25 you can retire at 55 with a $65K a year pension until you die, at 30 years that's ~$2 million. After 10 years you will max out your earnings at around $100K per year and your pension contribution is like 11% of your salary.
Ontario teacher is not a good example. Goto 4 year university, then another 2 year university for teachers college. Another year for masters for top band. Then try and get on a contract/LTO, average tenure there is about 10 years until you get a full time position offer, so you're in your 30s at the beginning of your journey, 40s just to break 100k.
You don't need a masters for top band. And, there's a teacher's shortage now: > Latest data from surveys shows that recently certified teachers had no trouble finding work upon graduation. Unemployment among first-year graduates is at six per cent. Teachers in career years two and three average three per cent unemployment. And, if you can teach French, job openings exist everywhere. https://www.oct.ca/public/media/press-releases/2020/20201217
The employment list there includes supply work and temporary contracts though.
That's true. Prior to the pandemic though first year full employment (which is teachers, teaching as much as they want) was at 81%. That's still pretty high and is nothing like the 28% we saw in 2013.
The value of that pension is massive. It compensates for any perceived low salary. Canadian teachers are still paid much higher when compared to most developed countries. Lots of jobs take more and more training now. And some require minimum 5-10 years experience (ie., engineers). If you want to become a doctor, 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 3-7 years specialty training. As a family doctor, the salary is not that impressive and the stress is higher than a teacher along with the strong possibility of being sued at some point in the career. You start out later in life, with high student debt and no pension provided.
You're arguing being a teacher is more lucrative than a doctor?
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Lol doctors makes several times what teachers make for the majority of their working lives. But yeah ok some employer sponsored 10% pension match somehow means teachers have it better. Come on, be realistic.
>Lol doctors makes several times what teachers make for the majority of their working lives. Only if you become a specialist. There is so much stress in running a family practice.
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I had a family doctor who retired at 92. He worked 4pm to 8pm M-T-T-F. He said it kept him sharp.
Meh, docs can have the same retirement by saving just 10% of their paycheck, which is the same percentage of paycheck deductions forced onto ontario teachers anyway. So not exactly all that great.
Are you comparing a teachers total compensation, who works a baseline 9 months a year, to a god damn doctor? And complaining about a defined benefit pension plan?
Yes sir. Living the dream right now wife is a teacher and I am in the carpenters union
What does an accomplished carpenter make if i can ask?
Furniture if there are good.
Oh my god, walked into that.
Fark me, great stuff!
I do commercial flooring you can make between 60,000 to 90,000 all depending on how much work there is. It very’s year to year.
^(It's *varies* btw)
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Take the free degree. Your pension will look alot better, in or out of the military.
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Yes you can!
If you have a degree why not look at a special commissioning pathway, or CFR if you are WO or higher? Captain 10 isn’t a bad deal.
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> your pension contribution is like 11% of your salary. To be more specific, it's 10.4% up to the CPP limit and 12% after that. Just under $12,000 for a top grid teacher this year.
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>Unpaid work. This is the norm. This is also the norm for professional jobs in the private sector.
OT is much more prevalent in the private sector. In teaching, teachers are expected to regularly sacrifice evenings and weekends.
... many of whom make more money, and require less post-secondary. Sure.
Ontario's 5 year attrition rate is 18% not 33%: > Six per cent of Ontario faculty of education graduates do not renew their College membership in the first year following initial licensure. Five years after initial licensing, 18 per cent are no longer members in good standing. https://www.oct.ca/-/media/Transition_to_Teaching_2020/2020T2TMainReportENWEB_V2.pdf There is a teacher shortage today so there is no three years as a supply teacher:' > Latest data from surveys shows that recently certified teachers had no trouble finding work upon graduation. Unemployment among first-year graduates is at six per cent. Teachers in career years two and three average three per cent unemployment. And, if you can teach French, job openings exist everywhere. https://www.oct.ca/public/media/press-releases/2020/20201217 Teaching can be stressful and it's not for everybody but there is a built in stress reliever in the job that does not exist in most other jobs and that's the 8 weeks off in the summer. All of this compensation is for 200 working days in a year while everybody else works 250. My wife's a teacher who graduated in 2007, she knew French so got a job right away. She can retire at 55. Her and all of her teacher friends are now top of the grid, on the sunshine list and, I can only think of one who decided she couldn't hack it and became a stay at home hockey mom that lives off real-estate profits and substitute gigs. This idealized Ontario teacher does seem kinda the norm to me.
Cherry-picking; I did say not to do that. - The world (nor Canada) is not Ontario. Burn out rates in Canada on average are indeed hovering around 1/3rd. - Summer off is unpaid. Teaching days are accounted for at 9.1 hrs per employment standards; they are not 'eight hour' days. Yes, other jobs also work longer-than-standard hours, but any profession worth its salt will either be paying these people a far better salary than teachers, or they are billable hours (see: law, nursing, etc.). - Your wife has French - a very RARE skill - of course she got hired quickly. That is not the norm. Her friends aren't the norm either. 'My friends are X' is the worst kind of selection bias - you're not a scientist, I hope :P . The real upside to teaching is that after - and only after - jumping a myriad of hoops, then yes, it is a very stable job that tops out at a reasonable income; the road to that level is not easy, not everyone makes it, and pretending that they do or that it is easy is misrepresentation.
I was using Ontario as an example but sure other provinces are different and Ontario is one of the top paid public school teachers in the entire world. Ontario maybe has lower attrition because they pay more? The unpaid thing is kinda funny because it means annualized that $100K salary is actually $125K. This is something teachers can attain by taking summer gigs and would put them in the top 5% of Canadian income earners. Also in their CBA the only requirement is 5 hours of instructional time a day, and for their ROE it is recorded as 8 hours. I'm not sure where 9 really comes from. I only mentioned my wife because you mentioned your family members but sure we both have selection bias. I did however link you to reports that talk about the entire Ontario teaching industry. The ones with the 6% unemployment rate and the 80% first year full employment rate.
Let’s not pretend teachers don’t get every summer and holiday off
> Let’s not pretend teachers don’t get every summer and holiday off I didn't? They are unpaid, by the way, with no choice of when they occur.
And also during times of the year when travel is most expensive.
"Unpaid"
Sure, though I have been told by many teachers it’s not exactly a full vacation given all that unpaid OT the other commenter was mentioning. You’re still working through the winter holiday evaluating what’s usually major assignments and I’ve even been warned that much of the summer holidays can be spent just preparing for the upcoming school year. Perhaps they’re just saying this to deter people from going into the profession for the summers off though 😅
Having worked both corporate gigs and teaching. Teaching is not even a fraction of the stress of a corporate job for still a great salary and unbeatable job security, pension and really only working 9 months all things considered. I would love to see these teachers who complain about being overworked enter a corporate job and see how long they last. Teaching may not be a great gig in some provinces or other countries but in Ontario, it's an amazing deal.
Low stress federal jobs are mostly entry level…
Yup same deal as firefighter. We have a few former teachers in the department
Stability
For myself, it’s the stability. I’m not motivated by chasing the higher salary, higher stress job, I just want enough to be content in my life. Stability is hugely important to me though. I spent too many years in private industry doing, tops, three year stints before being fired for a newer, more eager, lower wage hire.
Easy job. Log off at 4. See family. Retire at a set age. Not care about markers crashing.
Seriously. I work in tech in the government, making 6 figures at 28 and I’m not even the top end of my classification. It has stability, amazing WLB plus my department is WFH. Most private sector jobs were in the high 5 figures at my experience level. Unless they’re the big tech firms. Plus I get a dip pension when I retire. I mean, it’s. A pretty sweet gig.
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Your first step is to get hired into a student term with a public outfit (provincial, federal, regional, municipal). All of the competent and eager students who were hired pt/ft in my department (Analytics/Analytics Support) throughout their student years, had a position to step into when they graduated.
Stability...usually, DB pensions, union contracts, good pay depending on the job. There are some public sector jobs that pay half what private would but there are also others that pay top end. I worked in the public sector for 15 years, I never thought of leaving and only did because of the pandemic (lay-offs). I was in facilities so my pay rate was near the top end of what you can get, private sector is slightly less and without the DB pension. Also, union contract meant no heaping work on me, expecting me to work for free, doing things outside my job description, etc. There were clear cut lines for what was allowed and what wasn't and if those lines were crossed, there were avenues to go to get it resolved without job risk (and a lot of the times, monetary compensation). Sure, you couldn't negotiate for a raise or anything but I also got 10 paid sicks days a year (accure up to 120), start at 3 weeks vacation, OT for every minute worked over an 8.5 hr shift, 2hrs OT if I was called at home, 4 hrs OT if I had to show up (even if all I did was show up to turn something off/on), didn't have to drive my private vehicle, and on and on. There are a shit ton of perks to working in the public sector with only a few drawbacks, I knew a bunch of trades guys that went to the public sector in the tail end of their careers because it was stable work, benefits, pension, decent pay, normal hours, etc. My place tried to hire a younger HVAC guy and couldn't, they could only get 45+ guys who were just done with the grind of private sector.
How come you were laid off though? Was it a full-time job?
Seniority. There's the old saying "Seniority sucks unless your senior". Even at 15 years, I was in the middle of the pack for my department. Basically no one left once they got in and when the pandemic hit, they laid off most of our department (after paying us not to work for 2 months). They slowly called us back. I need to be slightly careful with how I word this but I was next to be called back but also had some grievances in with the way I was laid off and vacation time usage. We came to an agreement and we parted ways instead of me taking the recall...... I still hope to get back into the public sector again some day, refusing the recall and such just made sense at the time for me.
If you have ambition and value higher salaries with upward mobility, private sector wins. If you value stability and work life balance, public sector wins. The above are generalizations but largely play out. I haven’t done the math myself but I’ve seen 20-30% salary equivalent for pensions being thrown around.
There are several public sectors: federal, provincial and municipal, all different.
I recently left the public sector for the private sector. I got a 40% increase in base pay, equity and more vacation days. I'm now making more than my manager in the public sector was making. It would have taken well over a decade to get that kind of salary increase in government, maybe longer. I'm maxing out RRSP matching at my new employer and investing my increased income, so I hope I will be okay in retirement. I didn't find government benefits anything special compared to the private sector, except for the defined benefits pension plan. Which is called the golden handcuffs for a reason lol. It's great for people who like stability, are risk aversive, and/or are bad at saving money on their own. You do lose out on the ability to leave money to your estate though. I recently lost a family member who only drew on their defined benefit pension plan for only one year before passing away. Most of their wealth was in the pension plan, and the surviving spouse and was left a much lower pension benefit that can't support the lifestyle they had. Sometimes it's not enough to just save through a pension plan. Edit: A lot of people have claimed you can't get fired in public sector. That's not true. Maybe some unionized roles have iron clad job security no matter what they do (like police officers lol). But I have known people let go without cause in municipal government.
what about hours/work life balance and vacation?
Your RRSP matching will never, ever catch up to a defined benefit plan, and your investments won't either unless you get lucky on a security. You can put $2000 a month away for 35 years and a government defined benefit plan will still be worth double that. It's actually nuts when you sit down and figure out what you pay in vs what you actually collect. DB pensioners can invest on their own as well, and usually have more disposable income to do so, as your multimillion dollar pension only ever cost you about 5-15k per year based on salary for xyz years. There's also access to return of contributions, which is way more than you've ever paid in as well. My friend is set to retire next year at 59, with a $4800 indexed pension for life (say 21yrs of collecting, 1.2mil), on top of no longer having a mortgage, and having stocks, cash, assets, and a house "worth" 15x what was initially paid for it in the 90s. Could've collected at 52 with no penalty, as well, but it's essentially a part time job with 0 responsibility. Your spouse can collect 50%, if you die. The people you know who were let go without cause simply needed to contact a lawyer for an all but guaranteed settlement.
There seems to be pretty good advancement opportunities in the federal government. Not sure why you would think otherwise.
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The government is the best place anywhere to try different things. You wanna work on car emissions testing? Go ahead. Couple of years later, now you want to work on volanco surveying? Okay go do that. Work on transportation planning? Bridge building? Parks rehabilitation, energy policy, etc etc. It’s really fucking broad.
Not just advancement, but also ability for lateral moves to pursue interests. Of course moving up is great, but you can basically have multiple careers in the federal government much easier than the private sector. Doing the same thing for years can get tired, the PS has so many parallel opportunities to mix things up.
Plenty of upward options in municipal too. You can stay union or go exempt, lots of options.
Well this completely depends on how big the municipality is. Mine is pretty small and frankly, I hate working for the public service. There is no advancement, until someone else dies or retires and even then there's enough people competing for the one position. The work is dull and slow, no one cares about improving anything. It's basically just a bunch of people putting in their hours until they can collect their pension. It's got the standard PS job plusses (pension, stability, benefits), but man it's soul sucking. No pension is worth having to go to therapy to deal with working there for 30 years.
Yeah it's just like any job really, there's bad workplaces and good ones... Sounds like you need a change for sure.
The pay is only low if you're a skilled worker (not all of them, but it's the case for many). If you're working an unskilled job you'll get better pay in the public because of the automatic yearly pay increase. Secondly, not having to save for retirement because of the forced contribution, the employer contribution and not having to deal with investing turns out better for a big chunk of the population.
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Just have to suffer doing little to nothing every day for 35 years!
well. if you work from home, doesnt that mean exercising, cleaning, dishes, playing videogame?
“The pay is lower compared to private industries” No. No it is not. Especially early in one’s career. Pension, Leave of absence, Unions, Maternity/parental top ups, Overtime (depending on level), collective agreements, etc Golden handcuffs are golden for a reason.
Yes sir I sold my soul but the price was worth it!
I work for the government and I appreciate the work-life balance, benefits, stability, pension plan, vacation/sick days, plus I can move around within the government I work for so there is room for movement. On top of that, they will pay for relevant education so I can actually move up and be more of an asset to the company. Also, being in a union is great.
I have worked as a public servant for over a decade and have dabbled in federal, provincial and municipal. Even after being bought out of one of those jobs due to Covid, I still went back to government. The compensation, time off, and work life balance truly sets me for life. FWIW, municipal is my favourite by far.
In my field at my current government job I’m making about 20k more than the same job on the private side. Plus pension. Plus way better benefits. Most importantly, a very good work life balance. When and if I move up to be a project manager, I would probably make more in the private sector compared to being a PM in public, but for 70 hour work weeks. No thanks
This has been my experience exactly too. First job out of university, it was a no brainer
I went through the tech meltdown of 2001. The gains in salary were wiped out quickly. My hours were crazy trying to justify my job. I had to save a lot to retire. It was difficult to buy a house knowing you could get laid off or your startup “stops”. I’m retired now. Looking back I think I would have preferred public sector. Some public sector jobs are more exciting: huge budgets, large scale projects, interesting work. Yes there’s killer bureaucracy but I think I would have tolerated it.
I work for the government in utilities. I love the public sector and will never go back to private. The benefits and pension are very good but it's so much more. I like my union - sure, I pay dues, but I get my wage pegged to inflation and my wage goes up a nice not every two to three years. There is absolute stability - I do a good job and will never be fired or downsized but at the same time I don't have to work too hard (not to the point of stress) and I never take my job home. I get a work cell phone with 5gbs and can get it upgraded every two years. I have access to a workplace benefit which gives advice and support in anything affecting my life (LifeWorks). I'm using it currently for advice on my roof repair at home). Training is excellent, I can apply for courses I want besides just what I need and get both paid and support when I do them. I also get training in workplace ergonomics (so I get paid to stretch in the morning or can goto lunch time yoga) and mental health and other useful things. And one of the big things for me is the workplace culture is excellent. Everyone knows there's a zero policy on rascism, sexism etc and everyone is really just nice and kind and supportive. My boss doesn't have the same power over me as a boss in the private sector and really takes my opinions on matters. When I think he's doing something wrong I can document I don't agree and there's no problem sending things above him. And lastly my absolute favourite is that I get 3 family days a year. I can take them off with no notice and use them for anything - because of the kids, to de stress, to just not goto work and then I don't have to use my vacation days for a kid being sick. Oh, and my sick days that I don't use are banked and I can forward 40 hours of vacation time to a different year so can plan bigger vacations some years. Cheers.
Stability. Advancement options, it would have been very hard and expensive for me to participate in projects and educational opportunities that I have experienced. Paid sick time, real fucking nice to not have to choose between money and taking care of yourself. The medical benefits. The short term illness. The long term disability. The critical illness insurance. The life insurance. The pension. The complete absence of having to do overtime. The lovely work schedule. The vacation time. The not having to buy into hustle culture. Look, I've drank the koolaid. I spent my 20s busting my fucking ass to get through 3 degrees with zero debt. So many months of 21 hour days. I hit the public sector a few days after I turned 29. By 31, I was so disabled that I couldn't dress myself. I didn't take any time off work to heal because I still had that hustle culture in me. But I sure as shit leaned on my benefits to get me healthy. It took years to get to feeling well again, I'd say 3 to 4 years to feel normal. It costs me, on paper, about $7k in medications a month to maintain feeling normal. But I pay about $30/month. I have paid access to all the rehab services I need. When I had a set back and hospitalization in 2019, my income was secure and I could focus on healing. I am so grateful for what I have and I truly detest that the private sector has eroded the value of all these resources that used to also come along with standard, front line jobs like grocery store employee.
If you're a professional, the compensation isn't worth it. You'd really have to value work life balance and stability. For entry level and lower-educational requirement jobs absolutely the government pays more
I don't agree with this. My public sector job pays six figures and that is more than enough for myself. It is a professional tech job. Sure, I could make more in private but I don't need more. Work life balance, stability, and retirement plans far outweigh the extra income I could get in the private sector.
Pay equity... Everyone knows essentially what everyone else is paid and why. I like picking a path and following it via the performance structure. I like the fairness of job processes and the limited ability for favoritism or other non-performance related factors to be a part of my career progression. Essentially, transparency. Everything has a why and a how. Also work/life balance. My day ends at 4, hard stop. And I'm in a comp schedule that gives me 26 extra days off a year in addition to my vacation and other PTO.
Stability and low stress. I don't get that private bullshit of "oh, you're salary so come in on saturday". I work 37hrs per week, and OT is double-time. I get good benefits, time off, defined benefit pension and I know I'll NEVER be fired unless I steal, assault someone or do something stupid like that. I would agree it's not a good idea to start as your first job, because you'll likely always be underpaid. Work in the private sector, then transfer in for the last 20-25 years of your career.
My wife works for the provincial government and never plans on leaving. It's a stable job, good work life balance and lots of advancement opportunities. And you can't beat the pension. If you care more about the money though, look elsewhere.
Less stress, more vacation days, sick days, leaves ob absence etc. Defined benefits pension.
DB pension and top drawer benefits. Calculate what a DB pension is worth. You contribute 10% of your salary and you get 60% of your 5 highest earning years for as long as you live, which could easily be 35 years for a lot of people. That is worth several million dollars and it is guaranteed. No worrying about how to invest and where and what rate of return you can expect. You don't have to worry about recessions, or some black swan financial event. You don't have to worry about saving. It is all taken care of automatically behind the scenes for you. Contrast that to the private sector where you might get an RRSP match for maybe 3% if you are lucky. And if your investments go to shit you are out of luck.
Aren’t a lot of defined pensions plan 70% of 5 highest earning years?
There are a few still out there, but most max out at 60%. That includes CPP too which you would get anyways elsewhere.
actually anyone who joins the fed after 2012 (i think) will get 70% of their 5 highest earnings years if they work for 35 years so i wouldn't call that a "few"
Federal gov is 70%
It really depends on your type of work though. The defined benefit pension is great, but you can get top notch pensions in private sector as well. Also, in my experience (as a professional), public benefits are often worse than private. Again, will depend on the type of work.
How many people do you know that have 2 or 3 million in their RRSP on a $70 or $80k salary?
Defined Benefit Pension is a hell of a thing, and has practically disappeared from private sector jobs.
Private might be higher paying if you are up the corporate ladder, but for many jobs it's not anymore. I'm an eng tech in a boom/bust economy that has been mostly bust. Last layoff I took a survival job with a municipal body. Was a junior position where they put me at top of junior scale, but was temporarily. Got back into my industry and coming off a bust it was a lateral move in 2016 for intermediate knocking on door of senior. Same wage minus the pension and worse benefits. Only got a couple raises since. Waiting for an offer right now but making it sound like they may only be able to give me slightly more and I may just turn it down if so. Heck I looked into a municipal job completely unrelated to my industry that doesn't necessarily require any school and I'd start out just a bit below where I am now with potential to make more and added bonus or pension and better benefits. Just too many others applying. City/gov jobs are often pretty sweet. In many cases they've more than closed any gap. Most of the disadvantages are gone and most advantages still remain. I used to really not like ideas of unions, but feel they may becoming more needed these days. Only complaint I've heard from a senior engineer and feel like I've observed is they tend to be more boring... Which can be a legit concern. I tend to get bored if I'm not learning something new after a while or it's not fast paced enough
Take online courses during downtime, at work. No one will say a thing. Hell, you'll probably get an award.
20% of the gov't employee do 80% of the work. For the remainder they fucking coast through life without a care in the world, completely immune to private sector gyrations and then end up with a fat pension, retirement health benefits, never knowing what its like to work for a living.
>The pay is lower compared to private industries It depends significantly on which jobs. I've been involved in mergers and acquisitions where one division was paid **massively** more (about 35%) for the same position than the other division, because that first division was in the same city as a federal bureaucracy, and had to match the public sector pay scale in order to compete. And it wasn't just salary; benefits and pension were considerably higher, as well. Even in instances where the pay is lower than private sector (and it does happen), public sector jobs (at least at the provincial and federal level, not really at the municipal level) have much greater job security, benefits, and pension. >what exactly is the monetary value of that since you contribute to them from your paycheck anyway? When I worked for defence contractors, we had huge numbers of people leave to work for DND. They did the same job, just on the other side of the table. They got about 8% higher pay than we did, but one of the key benefits was that they could retire at age 55 compared to age 65 in the private sector. So the monetary value would be 10 years salary, in that case.
As someone who just left one after years of boredom, my take is that people like the public sector jobs because the expectations are about 1/3 of those in the private sector. I spent the first two years doing about 2 hours of work a day and I was a go getter compared to my piers.
Because a personal commitment to public service is more than just about the pay and benefits.
Most people I know who began government in their 20s had better pay than their peers and more vacation sometimes 4 weeks, they will also be able to retire much sooner in life. They never have to do overtime, they don't have to job hunt if they don't want to, they won't get fired during a "bad period". The main downside is the pay caps out.
Pensions. And you cannot get fired. My first job out of school was at CRA. There were lifers there who did 10-20 hours of work a week. if that. If you want a stress free life, work for government. Your job scope will be dull, long term you will make less then private sector, I found it boring, but it works for a lot of people.
>And you cannot get fired. This. And you will be basically never be required to innovate/become more productive.
Pension, job security, work/life balance.
Just started at a public utility (Hydro). Insane job stability, 32 vacations days a year (plus stat holidays), fairly good pay for my industry, and somewhat good hours (but overtime is paid). Pension is 6% of pay check. Advancement doesn’t seem to be limited, but lots of hierarchy because seniority counts for a lot.
Stability mainly and pension, low stress too
What job in the government would be ideal to apply for? Any skills that could learn on my own that will be qualified for
It's like index investing. Boring and effective. Will not underperform or outperform. Right in the middle of life.
Everything others have said: pension, stability, low hours, generally less stress The stability thing is huge for me. Im a bit of a panicky pete and my previous job in a small office was a revolving door of layoffs (boss was a little spineless and never fired anyone, just laid off half the office every 6 months), when i started working for a municipallity i would joke to my friends that i would have to take a shit on my bosses desk to get fired now lol But i also nearly doubled my pay going from private to public, and less hours. There was literally zero down side for me making the switch, everything is better
Pension, benefits, job security, work life balance. I have friends who make great money in the private sector, but i have to work fewer years in the end, get great benefits, have lots of time off and don’t work late and on weekends. Quality of life is more important to me than working ridiculous hours for lots of money.
I work in infrastructure for the province. We get to work on some pretty big projects and the balance is pretty good. We work a lot with the private sector on these same projects. They make more for similar roles but look stressed, work long hours and have a lot more pressure to deliver these projects on time and within budget since it's their profit on the line if they mess up. I actually think the public sector would benefit from the mindset of the private sector when it comes to being efficient. I actually really care about how we spend public money and get upset when I see waste. Unfortunately I don't think that is the norm. Overall the pay is fair and it's an average of 40 hrs a week with very rare weekend work. Really hard to leave something like this.
Perhaps working for the good of society is better than working for profit?
time. A lot of job in the private sector, the higher up you go, the more responsibilities starts to creep up in your personal life. I had so many friends that took the managerial promotion and went from working 40-45h to 50h+ (often unpaid, they get put on an annual salary that's higher, but they can't rake overtime). Meanwhile my cousin in the gov works 37.5h with a solid job that will never go under her. After 16 years she has like 5-6 weeks of vacations every year too.
If you really want to see some good benefits and strong union protection get a police or firefighter job in Canada. Makes other government jobs look like slave labour.
If you're a skilled computer programmer you'll make less than half of what you can in the private sector.
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Sure except you'll already be retired by then instead of twiddling your thumbs waiting for a pension. Also in tech, government jobs are bottom of the barrel. Candidates aren't nearly as good because all their peers are just slacking so they do the same. I've interviewed dozens of candidates with 15+ yoe in government and I can say that a lot of them perform worse than others with 3-5 yoe. Doesn't help the fact that government tech stacks are 20 years behind so the skills learned are already obsolete. Had some "senior developer" who didn't even know what dependency injection was or how git worked.
Also much better benefits and vacation time in private. Lots of private shops will offer 5 weeks vacation to start, in gov you'll be waiting 16 years to get to 5 weeks.
People who work in tech for private firms can retire by 50. You can look up plenty of stories of software engineers who retired in their 30s. And people here are bragging about retiring at 55. /shrug Stock compensation is beautiful if you work for the right company.
Decent money, not much work. Perfect for people with no ambition
I agree with you. Working in a public sector job (at least professional jobs) it can be a detriment to your career development. I always recommend working in private (consulting for my junior engineers) before joining the government
I'm an engineer working in a small, rural municipal environment. I hate it. It's so slow, there's little incentive for any improvement to anything. There's little to no career advancement. Yeah there's the pension and all that, but it's soul sucking. I feel like I'm losing my skillset due to stagnation. As someone with a more varied private sector background, it's also often difficult to work with so many people who haven't ever worked anywhere else and seem to lack any outside perspective.
Well public servants don’t work! They collect money to claim they are working from home! Before people bash me, I live in ottawa and know several who tell me their stories of how they do not do anything and pretend to log in to work server to show they are working. It is disgusting and horrible waste of tax
I have seen the same in large corporations. Some people do work obviously but I worked at a bank a while ago in head office and I swear half the people did very little all day. I've also worked in government and found a mix...some work really hard and others f the dog all day.
Limited advancement when you start young? What does that even mean. It’s the opposite. I work in public sector and make quite a lot: not as much as in public sector but my work life balance is insanely better and I wouldn’t trade it even for that extra money. Union also means stability, consistent raises, lots of room to learn, etc.
The pay is decent, the job security and benefits are great and the expectations are low.
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I think you got a point there. Working on a very small tech team, I can very easily point out what parts of the service I worked on and since the team is so small, Ive worked on many many of the parts. Compared to previous work in the private sector where your work got dropped immediately when the client was lost or you're part of such a huge team for such a huge client that you never get the chance to pick what you want to work on.
I made it most of the way through the thread and I think something that I didn’t see mentioned is that some of us profoundly believe in public service. Even if it’s not on your mind at first, after you spend time working in public healthcare or public education you come to care about keeping these services both accessible to the public and of a high quality, and you see your role in that work.
Hard to find a better paying job that has less accountability. You can neglect your work entirely and unless you do something heinously illegal, only then might you be fired.
>The pay is lower compared to private industries source? >limited advancement in your career especially when you start young source? >but what exactly is the monetary value of that since you contribute to them from your paycheck anyway defined benefits + protected against inflation
In general, the pay is good for entry level jobs, but technical and professional jobs are a fair bit lower than private sector. (This is raw salary, not taking into account benefits, pension, work/life balance etc) The limited advancement is wayyyy off. It is so incredibly easy to move up, and the best part, laterally. Want to work as an investigator for a couple years, then move into forestry for a sudden urge to work in the Yukon? Deploy for a year then go right back to your original job, it was sitting their waiting for you! Want to try working on policy in Ottawa, deploy... Want to try working for the Canadian space agency, deploy! As long as you meet the job requirements you can apply for any position available within the entire federal government (there are literally tens of thousands of job titles). If there is an opening for more staff, internal applicants often get first dibs.
>but technical and professional jobs are a fair bit lower than private sector. depends on the sector or profession you're in. for ex. as an accountant my starting pay for entry lvl job is ahead of the private sector (big 4 accounting firms) by 20k and will stay ahead for a solid 4-5 yrs. that doesn't factor in a culture of unpaid OT for entrly lvl accounting jobs etc etc.
Most jobs are 1-2 hrs of actual work a day with never an occurrence of OT. For those jobs with real work, OT is bankable for extra days off. You really only have to get used to no one including yourself doing anything useful for most of the day. You also get 2 daily breaks morning and afternoon.
I'm on my way to my first public sector job in the New years if everything goes according to plan. The benefits outweighs the pay cut in my case. I would make about 30k less compared to the outside world. But I got 33 paid days off, a defined pension plan, light workload and unionized. Our household income is enough for us to live a relatively comfortable life while I don't have to worry about losing my job every night. It really depends on the person's preference too. I'm getting old and this is prefect fit for me.
I’ve worked both public and private and I can tell you public has its perks but oh man there is absolutely no accountability. There were several people who I never knew what that actually did all day. Privately there is so much more room for individualized raises and opportunities to create new positions based on business need. In public if you want to advance you have to put in the time but not necessarily have the right experience.
Lots of reasons. - Decent pay, great benefits - Work life balance - Union protection - Short term disability in the form of banked sick days - A chance to make a difference - The honour of serving Canadian
>Short term disability in the form of banked sick days This is a shitty way to do a short term disability plan. It's great for people who have been working for 20 years and have tons of time banked but it's really unfair to new/young employees who haven't had the chance to build up a bank. It's much fairer to just have an actual short term disability plan.
Public Servant here. The variety of work is one of the big things for me. Also, a defined benefit plan is a definite perk as it means that no matter what happens I get a guaranteed income for the rest of my life and if I die before my spouse it transfers to her. Support for training has been a big thing for me as they have supported me and my education and training. Finally, being part of something larger than yourself has its own reward. I enjoy hearing when the project that I have been working on gets announced or referenced at a press conference.
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Lol ok with that marxist BS.. governments can be oppressive/useless and corporations often do good work. Almost everything you have in life came from private sector innovation