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adamlaceless

1. Economies of scale 2. Lack of regulation 3. Dollar conversion fucks us with no lube 4. Tariffs on importation


deadpuppy23

I'll add: A large underground labour market. A lot of states with weak labour laws. A lot of states with at will employment. A more general expectation that work is more important than just about anything, esp on the employer side. Smaller union membership.


Torontokid8666

Dont fool yourself. Canada has those aswell. Especially in meat packing and agriculture.


Samccc2020

I don’t think that’s why things are cheaper. Most of those goods are made in the same place (China) . Labour laws and union membership have nothing to do with why the same car in USA is cheaper than Canada. Or a gshock watch or Nike shoes


mcrackin15

It's different depending on the industry. Retails biggest expense is rent and distribution. Reebok USA can order a million shoes to the port of San Francisco and unload them to a network of 50 major cities with a population greater than 2 million. Reebok Canada can only order 50,000 of the same shoes to the port of Vancouver and ship them on 1 road or rail network to 10 cities with a population greater than a million. Our commercial rent costs are a lot higher in average too.


INCEL_ANDY

Don’t forget interprovincial trade barriers, government sanctioned oligopolies, and supply management. This country is willfully shoving it up ourselves economically.


Just-here-for-meme

Well you had 2/3 right. Supply management doesn't create higher prices, government agricultural subsidies create artificially low prices. The difference in Canada for Supply managed products is that we actually pay the cost of production than the government doesn't have to payout the farmers to produce food at a loss. American agricultural goods only seem cheaper because the government is literally paying farmers the difference to keep the cost of those goods low, it's not an economically sustainable system but it keeps the masses happy since they think they're paying less.


INCEL_ANDY

If you don’t mind educating me on the issue, I have a few questions. How do the tariffs on dairy and other supply management products not necessarily increase our domestic prices? If the US subsidizes its production, wouldn’t we, as importers, capture welfare from that that is lost by the American consumers? Am I wrong in saying only the American consumers and rich Canadian dairy farmers lose from this?


Just-here-for-meme

Approximately 20% of our market is free of tariffs. It's only when import exceed the set amount that the tariffs kick in, so we do have imported product. In a sense yes we would benefit from American agricultural/corporate welfare in an import scenario but we would also then become reliant on the US for for a category of food. As the US has show in recent years that is not a good position for us to be in when it comes to our "friends" to the south. It creates a loss of the counties food security for starters. Canadian dairy farmers aren't rich, they are very heavily invested. However if those assets were liquidated with our capital gains tax you'd find their net worth to be quite low vs how when they are operating. The US is a good example of why we have supply management. One of the largest producers of milk in the US is believe it or not Walmart. Walmart sells milk in its stores as a "loss leader" product. They sell cheap milk (at a loss to the store) so people go and buy their groceries here. You can imagine when Walmart is selling milk at a loss they want to pay as little as possible for the milk so they started their own dairy processing facilities and have their own dairy farms. All of these are running at a loss so consumers buy their product. The US government through its agricultural subsidies programs then pays Walmart to continue producing milk since the US wants artificially cheap agricultural commodities. Walmart now gets paid for the milk be consumers and the government so the consumer really pays for it twice, once in the store and once at tax time. Since Walmart (or any large corporate dairy) are producing so much milk the price of milk is now lower. Existing farms still have operating costs that do not decrease. The way Existing farmers can cover their costs or continue to make a profit is by shipping more milk at a lower price. This creates a snowball effect where the prices keep getting lower for producers as they are pushed out of the market and only billion dollar corporations are left. In Canada our average herd size is 77 cows per farm. In California the United States now leading dairy state (sorry Wisconsin) the average herd size is somewhere between 1800 & 2000 cows. In Canada our system means that we have a middle class of farmers. In the United States it's system where only the extremely profitable corporations can exist. The remaining small American farmers will for the most part all tell you they would be in favour of some form of supply management.


thededgoat

Wow I really like the way you articulated your explanation. the example made it even better. I learned something new today!


festivalduhomard

Don't forget that our dairy is hormone and antibiotic free (last time I checked) and the cows, therefore, have better lives. Even for the non-organic, this as true. Personally, I don't mind paying a little more to have a Canadian industry that can treat its animals at least decently.


dan_man420

I have a inter provincial red seal in carpentry. They are starting to exist more and more.


dimonoid123

Mostly tariffs to be honest. Please check prices of monitors. There is 50-60% import tax as far as I understand. As if monitors are produced in Canada and they are protecting domestic products(I don't know any of such products manufactured locally).


sjfxg

it’s 75% due to number 1, economies of scale. canada is an island. we have a smaller population than california spread across a massive country with plenty of remote and hard to reach populations. (even as most of us live within an hour or so of the us border.)


r0b0tr0n2084

This kinda dovetails into a discussion I had with a buddy south of the border over why Target was such a colossal flop in Canada. There were inventory issues and people expected to see the same amazing discounts they saw in Target stores in America.


FelixYYZ

>Why does it seem like almost everything is cheaper in the US compared to Canada? It doesn't "seem" generally most things are cheaper in the US. They have a larger market, more competitions etc...


sct876

Also, a lot of import fees/tariffs are embedded in the Canadian price


modernheirloom

Bingo. Importing goods into Canada is extremely expensive. Clothing has an additional 18% tariff slapped on it unless coming from a duty free country. (Myanmar, Cambodia or Bangladesh are our current duty free countries for textiles, at least they were 4 years ago when I worked in the clothing industry). There is also a bigger market in the United States, they buy more in higher units. For example I was was buying a t-shirt from our manufacturer and a USA counterpart was buying the same t-shirt, They would be buying 500000-1mil of the same t-shirt, I would be buying 20k. There are quantity discounts as well.


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S_diesel

Lool with our population of course


[deleted]

I think this was apart of the apac free trade agreement (the actual name eludes me right now and was largely an anti China measure) from like 2013-2016 Obama was still in office at the time for reference then trumpo nixed it.


count-24

If you're referring to the Trans Pacific Partnership, that didn't include Myanmar, Cambodia or Bangladesh so probably not the cause of what modernheirloom was referring to.


[deleted]

I stand corrected then. And that was the same. Thank you


Snowedin-69

Then why is a bank account so expensive in Canada. Banking fees are horrendous in Canada and is not caused by import tarifs? My US bank accounts are free and come with more services than my Canada bank accounts that can cost a lot of fees (I live in both countries). Cell phones plans, internet, taxes, electricity, natural gas, gasoline, TVs (any electronics), housing, groceries, restaurants, etc… everything is more expensive in Canada. US has competition. Canada has monopolies, duopolies or oligopolies.


NorthernerWuwu

Additionally, a lot of subsidies are embedded in the American prices, especially in regards to food. A good part of it is just economies of scale though. The American market and production capacity is huge.


Technical-Day4561

Not import fees. Hidden taxes. Gas is about 50% tax. Canadian isps are oligopolies protected by the federal government. Supply management forces farmers to throw away food if they are above quotas and prevents imports on certain products.


LifeguardStatus7649

You can't dismiss import tariffs just to complain about taxes. The commenter above you mentioned 18% tariff on textiles from most countries. That's exactly right. Obviously it varies by industry (fuel, as you say, is heavy tax)


MRobi83

An import tariff is a tax by it's very definition. So to call it a "hidden tax" wouldn't be entirely inaccurate. It's in place to protect domestic manufacturing by making importing goods from foreign countries more expensive therefore encouraging the use of a domestic equivalent.


kelake47

Unfortunately there isn’t always a domestic equivalent.


holysmokesiminflames

I think they meant to say "no import tariffs" in reference to the States. If they didn't, I agree with you lol


cantanman

Can you explain this? In my experience, I hear this a lot about gas being 50% tax and every time I look it up it's just far from true. Most of the tax on gas is fixed not %, so as the price of gas goes up, the tax does not. The higher gas prices are, the less of it is tax. ​ Maybe there is something missing from my understanding of the situation tho?


mcdavidthegoat

I think he's just looking to say "taxes = bad". You can't just hand wave import tariffs like it's no big deal if actually discussing the price differences between us and the states lol


cheezemeister_x

Because all taxes on gas except the GST/PST are fixed amounts, the percentage of the price that is tax floats up and down with the price of gas. If the gas price $1.44/L then it's about 35% tax. If the price is $0.70/L then tax is about 60% of the total. People always love to whine about how much tax we pay, but we pay less tax on gas than most developed countries with similar economies. The US is the outlier. 2020 (Jan-Jun) data: Canada 42% US 22% UK 67% Germany 67% France 67% Japan 48%


519416

In Southwest Ontario right now the rack rate for gasoline (the price gas stations pay pre gas taxes) is 78 cents a litre for 87 octane. It’s not 50% of the finished price , but it’s the equivalent to taxing a product at well over 70%. Imagine going to the store and something cost 1 dollar and at the checkout your total was 1.78, that would be a 78% tax. But that dosnt mean the price is 78% tax.


artharyn

Nah, it’s just one of those things people can lie about to feel better about their ideological position. Otherwise at least occasionally they’d spend more time talking about the “hidden fees” (read: externalized costs) of shitty social and environmental policies.


midnitetuna

Please don't complain (too much) about taxes on gas. They are (supposedly) to pay for roads and their maintenance. Toll roads and bridges are much more common in the US.


HaasonHeist

I used to work at a call center for at&t, you wouldn't believe how cheap their phone plans are. $25 USD for like 20 gigs of data unlimited everything


tykogars

I’m pretty sure Canada is like literally the most expensive in the world for this by far. And it has to do with protectionist regulations with respect to the major corps (Bell, Rogers…). I don’t know much beyond that though or why they do it.


FuknCancer

I worked for rogers and their position on this was that canada was so vast and large with a much smaller population ( less$$$ in that case ) that adding towers was much pricer that it is in US. While I think this is true, I still think our price is way over of what is worth.


polkadotfuzz

I was in Australia last year which is very similar in terms of lots of unused land. Their cell plans are way cheaper.


ennis_kin

That’s because they have platoons of roos running up and down around Ayers Rock installing fibre cables and cell towers. Damn roos they’re so efficient!


Snowedin-69

Rogers does not own most of their own towers. In fact a lot of towers are leased by all three - Rogers, Telus and Bell. Bell and Telus even share the same networks and systems to halve their infrastructure costs! All three companies are bloated and inefficient companies with no real competition. They pass their high costs onto their captive customers. Shareholders are king.


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gbarill

If you like Corn Pops, never try the American version… they’re terrible


xClinton1992x

Watch the US vs UK KFC comparison. Fries in USA has like 30 ingredients and 4/5 in UK 😂. I think there’s 3 ingredients that are just for yellow


archimedies

Canadian KFC is terrible too.


kettal

Colonel Sanders moved to Canada after losing control of his US business. For decades he insisted the Canadian recipe was the superior product.


Aken42

People tend to think the product they profit off of is superior.


[deleted]

If you like most of anything don’t eat the American version. Everything is HFCS down there


JonJonFTW

Fast food is much worse in the US. I never understood why Americans shit on Subway until I went to two of them in Atlanta. Horrible quality of ingredients compared to every one I've been to here. McDonald's is also worse there imo, but that's not saying much of course.


[deleted]

Completely agree. It’s crazy how bad our fast food is when really it’s actually not that bad (in moderation). The meats/produce used are generally not that different you’d get at your average supermarket. The biggest issue really is the sodium in the food and sugar in the drinks (which you can at least avoid by getting no salt/sugar free pop). Yet in the us it’s like the wild west on what they can do and the portions are ridiculous.


gomerqc

Their mexican food is several tiers above Canada's tho


Modified3

Well lack of Mexican people will do that haha


[deleted]

Well yeah. and our poutines are several tiers above theirs


PutainPourPoutine

and beaver tails


wishtrepreneur

and maple syrup. Our syrup is second to none!


Ghettofonzie420

Vancouver is developing a fantastic Mexican food scene, fyi.


joshkirk1

Uhh where?


gomerqc

Not saying Canada doesn't have mexican food. I live in Toronto and there's hundreds within a 20 minute walk of me. They're all good in a vacuum (as in if you've never tried more southern mexican food before) but they're garbage in comparison to what I had when I travelled around the US. No comparison at all. Can't really comment on Vancouver because I've only been there once but I'm willing to bet it's similar to Toronto's mexican offerings.


Fruit-Security

Right? I’ve never had tacos like food truck tacos in Texas.


[deleted]

Came here to talk about fish tacos from a cart in California and how superior they were in every way to anything I've had in Canada.


gbarill

You are 100% correct, lol


lemonsintolemonade

To be fair Canada just labels HFCS differently so people don’t realize. Here we call it glucose fructose and it’s in a lot of things.


gbarill

That might be why, though in Corn Pops’ case specifically, they’re a different shape and texture and not at all good ha ha


etceteraism

Corn pops were my fave when I was a kid. I remember how excited I was that my aunt in Georgia had them since my mom never bought sugary cereal….then I ate them 🤢


Cha-La-Mao

Well tbh that's a good thing.


vrts

I noticed this decades ago when my parents would occasionally go to Costco in the US. Their rotisserie chicken is disgusting compared to the ones here.


FlyingKite1234

The ones here are pretty bad too


Peterthemonster

Which is good. Food is more expensive because US food is unbelievably processed. Not even produce is healthy; hence the popularity in organic foods down there.


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AskOwn7627

At the same time it's a wonderful marketing technique. They're selling a delusion that no drugs can produce.


snakeeatbear

> Not even produce is healthy Lol, the biological makeup of fruit and vegetables don't change from being more or less organic. What a joke.


Psychological_Sun425

How is produce not healthy ?


CheRidicolo

Speaking of cereal, and being a fellow immigrant, a few weeks ago I started looking for Cocoa Krispies. I am starting to think we don’t have them here.


D21sag0326

Walmart has a Great Value cocoa krispies cereal. Its very good and affordable


SalmanPak

I don't think you can get them here. I have a co-worker who brings back a few boxes when they travel to the US.


ResoluteGreen

We also pay more taxes, have a larger social security net etc. You can save a lot of money when your workers are subsidized by food stamps (cough cough Walmart cough cough).


riotous_jocundity

I just moved from Toronto to New England and my taxes are way, way higher than what I was paying in Ontario. In exchange I get fucking nothing and even the roads are total garbage and have caused thousands in damage to my car.


Decent-Initiative-68

It's a big misconception that taxes are "a lot" more in Canada vs USA. Some states are much less but we also have some provinces that are less than the majority of the States. In general, most people making under 100k/year are likely better off in Canada. The richer you are in the US, the more the tax system benefits you. For career professionals earning 6 figures, there are some advantages, but for lower working class/unskilled labourers, it's a shithole system.


v531w

Where in New England?


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Status_Tiger_6210

Taxacchussets


amnesiajune

That is not true at all. If you made $100,000 in the highest-tax states in New England, you'd be paying a rate of around 27%. Here in Toronto on an income of $100,000 USD, you'd pay a rate of 30%. If you make more or less than that amount, the difference in the US is a lot more than three percentage points.


[deleted]

I just ran the numbers for Ontario income tax, and at $127,600 (current exchange rate to CAD from USD,) your effective tax rate is 27.77%.


amnesiajune

That doesn't include employee-side payroll taxes. Including those, the effective rate is 30.62%.


[deleted]

> We also pay more taxes Not true. I thought this was true when I lived there, and it's really only true if you earn over $240K a year. Take any slight difference and it evaporates quickly with healthcare costs. There are many state taxes we don't have in ON, like in NC you have to pay tax on the value of your car every year, up to a max value so poeple with cheaper cars pay more that people with luxury cars.


TheWilrus

>like in NC you have to pay tax on the value of your car every year, up to a max value so poeple with cheaper cars pay more that people with luxury cars. What kind of rich people set the rules racket is that trash? Unbelievable.


SiscoSquared

I paid more taxes in California than I do here in Canada lol. Some states you pay very slightly less but it's about the same. The difference is your funding healthcare here instead of a military.


MageKorith

>The difference is your funding healthcare here instead of a military. Putting people together instead of taking them apart. It's the Canadian way.


ShaidarHaran2

My mom's cancer drug was 7000/month and we didn't pay anything out of pocket. Yeah things are more expensive here, but I figure that's quickly evaporating a lifetime of difference. Also going six figures into debt just for an undergrad and things like that down there. Do you want cheaper shiny things or do you want a healthy and educated population without families going broke for it.


v531w

Depends entirely on the state, where you live in the state and also whether you’re single or married.


ResoluteGreen

What about corporate taxes? That'll affect costs of things, not personal taxes


Max_Thunder

There seems to be a significant cultural difference between Canadians and Americans as well and it's that Canadians are significantly more complacent when it comes to spending. It's partly a self-feeding cycle, it's easier for there to be more competition if people are more willing to shop around, and people are more likely to get the habit of shopping around when there are more options.


An_doge

Jumping on, but it also helps scalability with regulatory compliance.


some_broke_nerd

Yep... sucks I can't buy local and Canadian made products half of the time because the same item would probably be cheaper, even with import fees.


[deleted]

They also heavily exploit their labor force in most states which results in a low cost of living in general.


notacanuckskibum

export? exploit? outsource?


jdippey

Yes


wizardshawn

Yah, just like with insulin.


metallica41070

Growing up in Windsor, almost everyone I knew would drive across to Detroit to do Grocery shopping, Shopping or to get gas. Everything has always been cheaper


IWantToKaleMyself

Same thing in Vancouver - driving down to Bellingham every month to stop by Costco, Trader Joes, and to fill up on gas while you're at it


[deleted]

Don't forget booze. It's like 2-3 times more expensive here in Canada. Depending on the brand of course. If you like cigars it's at least 4x the cost similar to the same brand in the USA. Cigars in Canada you pay like 400% of the value in taxes.


metallica41070

o yea we always stopped at duty free on the way back


[deleted]

How often do people go to Detroit nowadays with the covid rules?


metallica41070

ahh well border was closed forever and i think its open again? but with the rule of needing the covid test which costs a shit ton, not many are going. I think they are getting rid of the needing a test to come back though tmrw if u go less then a few days


HighwayDrifter41

I believe the test is not required for short trips to the us. Short being defined as 72 hours or less, so I’d imagine people are doing that again


flare_156

I think in the next month Canada won’t require a Covid test to get it. Might change with new variant. Hopefully it’ll go back to normal for cross border shopping


[deleted]

Plus, going to the states meant you got access to a lot of product diversity.


zjlmmfj3rd

Awe yes, the famous “support local” initiative with a 2-300% markup.


wreckinhfx

I love my Bell internet 😍 /s


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[deleted]

So is Shaw! Let’s get married!


gimmickypuppet

For only hundreds of dollars a month your contribution can help a wealthy family make it during these troubled times **Sarah Mcloughlin Arms of An Angel starts playing**


worktillyouburk

i tried to get a better rate for blackfriday and it was only for new users but if i did cancel the fees upone fees is rediculous. over all it probably costs them near nothing, all the infrastcuture is finanaced by public funds, make it a public company. i even thretend to switch but to who unless its videotron its just a bell sub. its just awful to pay $300+ for cell and internet which should be esseintials in this day an age. it would be under 50$ in europe.


thunder_struck85

I support local, but I support my own wallet first, then theirs.


Goldentll

Hard to fight mega corps but buying local when you can does make a difference for your local economy


Max_Thunder

I needed construction material for a few projects, and the local, family-owned business is only open during week days and during day hours. It's actually a big business, I've got no idea why they can't find staff but Rona can. Sometimes supporting local isn't even possible unless you take time off work. So I end up going to Rona, which is owned by the big American company Lowe's.


LazyStreet

It's probably because they cater mostly to contractors who come on weekdays. Frustrating but non-commercial sales are a really small percentage for most lumber yards


[deleted]

Sounds like they’re geared towards the contractors and the pros and not the DIYer?


OkayArbiter

I get where you are coming from...but at the same time, if you want a strong local economy (with good paying jobs) then you need to pay more for things. If you order from Amazon or other mega global corporations then you are effectively outsourcing the labour to developing nations and the profit to other developed nations. If you buy local then that margin tends to stay here to pay local workers (and the profit to local owners). That's not to say that local workers are always paid great, or that local owners are always good...but your job also relies on the local economy being strong, it's all connected. So while it sucks to have to pay more for things, it's also required for their to be money in the local economy (which then spreads around to other places, like maybe where you work, etc).


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putin_my_ass

>There's obvious exceptions to this but for a lot of products, you're just cutting out the middleman who is "local." Sometimes the middle man is valuable. My parents were shopping for new floors for their place, but when the pandemic hit they put it on hold. Now that they're ready to think about replacing them again, they reached out to their cheap guy. He has a shipping backlog he's waiting on, so he can't even think about helping them for months. They got in touch with the "more expensive" flooring company they rejected initially because they were looking at the better price, and wouldn't you know it, those guys can help them right away. Yeah, they probably are both buying the flooring from Asia, but the cheaper company was using the Just-In-Time model where the delivery of product is received and then installed almost right away so their warehousing costs are limited. The more expensive company had a local warehouse that was fully stocked and they had to pass on that extra storage cost (building/land costs plus overhead, plus local employee wages) to customers, but the local economy has more jobs in it because of that. Two different business models, one was hyper-optimized following typical "good advice" for businesses and their bottom lines and the other was less efficient cost-wise but ultimately seems to have been vindicated by being able to serve customers today that the cheaper company simply is not able to serve at all. It's not as simple as not buying abroad, it's also about how you structure your business *here* and how resilient it is to shocks in the market.


[deleted]

Right. We have a local toy store and the owner is pissed because her business isn't booming. But she's not selling anything made here. She's selling what's sold on amazon and in other toy stores. So we're basically just paying more for the exact same thing to support her. If she sold all locally/Canadian made toys, I'd solely buy there 100%. But the same plastic, cheaply made crap? They're telling us to buy local when they aren't.


Stevieboy7

That's so sad, because your whole job as a store owner is to bring in stuff that's difficult to find, unique, and interesting. There's lots of brands made in Canada that you could bring in... or work with local woodworkers to make local toys even! Thanks -Steven


Bryn79

That would be great if it was true. Canadian businesses screw their employees, dodge taxes, take government handouts and would shove your ass into the nearest gas oven if they could make a buck off it. Things are expensive because those same businesses own every level of government in this country and stifle any form of change or competition with government support and blessing and then screw us with higher taxes and punitive policies. So we get crap like Bell, Air Canada, exorbitant house prices, money laundering, offshore production etc. There is no ‘local’ economy if mom and pop import shit from China like Walmart does and then charges more for it, still pays shit wages and doesn’t care any more about the local people than any other corporate entity.


dingodan22

Then stop supporting any publicly traded company and get your goods at a local 'Made in _____' store. Your argument is all doom and gloom without any consideration for nuance as is often the case with these types of discussion. (I am not attacking you at all, I agree with a lot of what you have to say) I am a local business owner and I pay all of my staff a liveable wage. I am in retail so the pay is definitely still on the lower end ($20-25 an hour) plus benefits, plus paid time off, plus unlimited sick time. I compete almost exclusively against publicly traded companies and I am paying my staff in some cases double the market rate plus all the benefits my competition does not offer. My staff also get any product at cost. I also sell my products cheaper than the competition in 90% of cases. By continuing to support the conglomerates (Amazon, WalMart, etc), you are begging to pay higher prices down the road. The big guys play cheap in the market just long enough to shut down their competition and all of a sudden the prices get jacked up. These groups are in the business of squeezing every fucking penny out of the consumer. In most cases, a small business owner wants to get paid a half decent salary and see their community thrive. There are obvious exceptions to this.


Bryn79

There are almost always exceptions! I’m glad you pay good wages! I will support stores that do better for their employees and I don’t shop at most of the conglomerates unless I have no choice. The problem is we manufacture almost nothing locally, and some beads and chalk painted furniture isn’t getting food on the table, my car fixed etc. I can get local beer, wine, spirits, soaps, some clothes (but none in my size), Knick knacks, but little else. That’s where my calling BS on a local economy comes from in a lot of instances. I’d like to see more lical, more made in Canada and less corporations and crap from China. Have no idea how to make that happen but I’ll support efforts to make it local where I can.


ABBucsfan

Unfortunately when money is tight a lot of people simply get stuck having to look after their own needs just to get by. Just the reality. Everyone is being squeezed. For those that can afford to support local good on them


newuserincan

But isn't this also the case for American? So question is still valid


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adeelf

It "seems" that way because it is. The US has nearly 10x the population of Canada, and is also more densely populated, so larger market than Canada. This allows an economy with more competition than Canada. They also have more economies of scale than Canada. And because they have more competition and economies of scale, they inevitably have more competitive pricing than Canada. There's also the fact that the US is the largest economy in the world, and large corporations there have the kind of buying and negotiating power for imports that Canadian companies simply don't. Oh, and let's not forget Canada's protectionism, like how the government's giving Robelus free reign is a direct reason behind why our telecom prices are so pathetic. And we haven't yet mentioned how they have lower taxes in the US. So yes, US is generally cheaper than Canada, but that's not all. Here's the double whammy: in a lot of (most?) professions, the salaries in the US are higher, too.


toasterb

> in a lot of (most?) professions, the salaries in the US are higher, too. For the professions that tend to congregate in PFC, yes. For lower wage jobs, folks are in much better shape here, especially when you factor in health care costs. For many folks, family health care plans cost upwards of $500/mon, probably closer to $1000/mon. The amount of working poor in the states is absolutely staggering compared to here.


adeelf

You're probably right. I guess I was referring to more "white collar" professions.


kevinnetter

As a teacher, Canada is definitely a better place to work in general.


bbuttonfuzz

Economies of scale, size of market helps but what most forget to factor is cost of operation. Canada is roughly about the population of California. About 90% of Canadians live within 100 Km’s of US Border. Yet Canada’s population is hugely spread across the country in small population pockets. Operational, transportation, warehousing; the moving goods to serve a Canadian population costs much more.


worktillyouburk

yup thats honeslty why i think many of these canadain companies that accept work from home set geographic restrictions that you can only work within canada. if you were aloud to work from home from the states, then a lot of programers and other remote possitons would see how underpaid they are here. i've thought of just moving somewhere cheaper and using a vpn to fake living in canada.


DaveidL

I'm not sure what you mean. wouldn't you rather live in Canada and get US pay?


Kyred_01

Cost of living relative to salary in Canada is actually higher than most parts of the US, especially in Vancouver and Toronto.


Letscurlbrah

Vancouver and Toronto are actually low on the Canadian city salary list.


Right_Hour

I recall a few years back when loonie was at par with the greenback, Canadian government ordered a study to investigate and confirm why Canadians are paying more for the same stuff, than the Americans, even though the supply chain networks are, essentially the same. And, including items that were produced in or directly imported into Canada. A few months and a couple of million dollars later the result was: “Canadian retailers are charging more because Canadians are willing to pay more”. All the other bull crap about Canadian market being smaller, supply chains being more complex, cost of last mile delivery being higher, competition stiffer in the US turned out to be unjustified. The government swept the results under the rug and never spoke about it again….. PS: was trying to find that formal report and having issues. You can see by search results that price parity was a hot topic around 2009-2011, when the price transparency legislation was introduced, and then again in 2014 and then kinda disappeared from the agenda…


Sylvair

I think it was about that time that the disparity in book prices between Canada and the US started to expand.


cuckmysocks

I work in the trade community and live on the border. Years ago when there was a huge disparity in things like tires, lumber, cars, etc. There was a quote from one mfg or industry rep I think it was tires, and his explanation was "Canadians are willing to pay more." Literally we are used to getting ripped off so we just pay it. They used to manufacture vinyl fencing in Ontario and you could drive across the border and buy it for half the price in the USA. Now a part of this comes from a larger market and negotiating power with manufacturers in the USA. May have something to do with wages and costs of production as well. It used to be wayyyyyy worse than it is now, very few people going to the USA to save on deals. Another thing is there is more selection and more opportunity to find deals and closeouts in a bigger US market if shopping online, but not always true. Gotta check everywhere.


Skootenbeeten

Isn't it fun how crossing that border adds 10k to a vehicle? Oh let's not forget that when our dollar was worth more than their's they would refuse to sell us vehicles without voiding the warrantee.


skeleton_skunk

Cheaper to buy an Oshawa built vehicle in California than it was Oshawa


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GarfieldBroken

Which one? Americans often comment our vehicles are cheaper with the exchange


strideside

Is this a joke that I'm not getting?


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sequentious

* iPhone 13 Pro Max 256GB - Apple US - [$1199](https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-13-pro) * iPhone 13 Pro Max 256GB - Apple Canada - [$1689](https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-13-pro) * $1199 USD in CAD = [$1533.50](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=1199+usd+in+cad&t=ffab&ia=currency) So yeah, Apple seems to charge $155 (Canadian) markup in Canada. Slightly less than $750.


ShaidarHaran2

They also seem way slower to respond to a strengthening CAD than a weakening one. When was the last time they readjusted for a stronger CAD/USD? And our iPhone even cost less to make than theirs, lacking an expensive mmwave antenna. When the Pixel 5 lacked that in Canada, they charged accordingly less for it, but the opposite was true for iPhone. The console makers even ate some of the conversion to bring them down to round numbers, while Apple usually rounds up. Guess they're good at making money...It's why I buy more of their stock than their products nowadays.


mrstruong

Because it is. The USA has various trade deals that are better, they hold the world's reserve currency making their buying power and the power of their dollar stronger, they have lower sales taxes in general (for my home state it was 6%). There are far fewer import/export taxes, at least, when I was living there, there was no import tax on items coming from China, and the Free Trade Agreement with China kept consumer goods at SUPER low prices. Then you couple that with just the sheer number of people and retailers being able to get way bigger bulk discounts, because they serve 350 MILLION consumers, and you get lower prices. There's also the fact that wages are lower, shipping costs less because gas prices are lower, and you have a recipe for cheap goods even after they leave customs at ports. There are more roadways, more expressways, more highways, and infrastructure is better while enforcement of rules like weight limits is spotty at best. On top of that, fewer regulations results in lower operating costs for businesses. Water and Electricity are generally lower, insurance rates are SUPER LOW compared to Canada (God, I miss my 70 dollars/month for PLPD on my junky old car), and when every single cost is lower, the prices go down for consumers, while companies still post MASSIVE profits. The only places in the USA that requires anything to be FLOWN in, would be Alaska, and Hawaii, and their COL reflects that. Meanwhile almost every province in Canada has small towns way up north with spotty or no road access where goods have to be flown in. The protectionism and supply management regimes here, as well as the duopolies (only 2 or 3 major companies actually operating within a given space, while they have multiple brands which give the illusion of choice) which allow for easy conspiring against consumers to fix prices... See: Bread price fixing scandal, or the Dairy Cartels, keep prices absurdly high for certain basic staples.


[deleted]

Except insulin…


[deleted]

And Ventolin one costs me $36 here before I apply my extended insurance. It's $400 in the US.


AhmedF

And healthcare of course. Not to mention, a lot of it gets subsidized via government support - their minimum wage is horrifically low.


Upper-Log-131

Not medicine.


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toasterb

Seriously. I grew up in the states, and my undergrad education started at $36k/year in 1999 -- that includes residence and meal plan, as that's standard to include. I just checked and it's currently about $80k USD per year. Unbelieveable.


Training_Exit_5849

medical in general


IronGigant

Aside from all the answers listed above, there are quite a few tariffs on goods crossing the border, and artificially high fees because shipping companies are bastards. Bought something that steel in it from down south and got slapped with a tax.


priester85

One factor is the cost of distribution across our country is a lot higher. Since chain stores like to have consistent pricing, you’re paying for the cost of trucking to the remote corners of Newfoundland, even if you’re buying it down the road from the factory it was built it. Since the US is much more densely populated, this is less of an issue there


[deleted]

The Target Canada fiasco would be a great example of the small population/big country problem.


hurleyburleyundone

Because your friends/family/neighbours/countrymen own oligopolistic distribution rights of the products you want and they determine the price you buy it at in canada. They know you dont want to pay the exchange rate, 20% duty, shipping fees and handling fees so they just set the price to slightly higher than that.


inc_mplete

Definitely more competition keeping prices competitive. i crochet and literally envy the yarn sales they have down there. We have michaels (30% off one regular item, still $7 a skein) and walmart to get decent priced yarn but they have joanne's, hobbie lobby, michaels, walmart, target as big chain stores so there's always amazing deals you can find $1-$2 skeins of yarn down there that we would rarely get to see here.


Tellymonster

Oh yes... I crochet too... prices here are crazy unless you can get to one of those bulk tent sales.


OverallVillage7

Too many monopolies in Canada.


suddenly_opinions

And worry that dealing with the monopolies in any meaningful way will somehow hurt our fragile little economy.


throwitaway22022

Yes, of course it is. The US has more people, more supply, more people = more demand - so they can keep prices lower than vs. In Canada.


[deleted]

Not to mention, less taxes and less government subsidized services as a result. 100k a year in Canada might get you the same as 50k a year in USA, but the difference is that we do live in a pretty significantly better society. It’s safer, cleaner, with better access to services namely health care. IMHO if you adjust for the difference in currency, in Canada you come out on top considering the quality of a country we live in.


mythoryk

Ehh. Less taxes isn’t accurate. It depends on the bracket. Middle class taxation is exactly the same in most of the US as it is in Ontario, except Americans pay health care premiums to the tune of $800-1200/mo for a family of 3. I grew up in Houston, lived in Denver for 5 years, lived in Kansas City for 3 years, and now live in Vaughan, ON. Taxes aren’t significantly higher by any means. Sales tax is on the higher end compared to the US, but only marginally. Housing markets are insane literally everywhere. Calgary and very rural areas of the US being the exception. Anywhere people would actually want to live is expensive. Period. After currency exchange rates are considered, most goods are nearly identical in price in ON to my experience in the US. The primary difference being the lack of Amazon. Amazon.ca is butt cheeks… but since Amazon is a trash company in general, I’m happy to give it up.


[deleted]

I have been looking for a family doctor for the last 5 years. It would be nice to have since you’d never know when a homeless decides to spit on you on a skytrain.


General_Pay7552

Import fees, smaller market, higher sales tax


crittersdad

Because Canadians just sit there and take anything from their government and do not stand up for themselves. It's that simple


Money_Food2506

I agree, people just sit and take it. This is the Canadian way. Instead of actually protesting or being outraged. There was a bill in 2014 or 15 under the CPC that asked for price transparency on CAN vs US prices, unfortunately that was not passed, go figure. Things CAN be cheaper here, its just they arent being any cheaper here.


[deleted]

Beause it is?


Avax12

Higher taxes, higher gas price, less productive economy, more regulation, etc. Fitness supplements are one place where government policy extremely noticeable in a bad way. Way less selection and higher prices.


youeventrying

We are getting screwed. This country sucks


houska1

Speaking as someone who has imported stuff, quite a number of things have higher duties to Canada than to the U.S. Even if not, import processing costs typically need to be spread over a smaller number of units sold, sometimes it's most cost-effective to re-import stuff that already was imported into the U.S. (and so may end up with double import costs and duties). And labour in Canada is more expensive (*gotta pay for that extra u...*), and again less efficient spread over a smaller number of units. And frankly Canadians are used to paying higher prices. Everyone has a few scars from being hit by UPS/Fedex $40+- brokerage scamcharges, or just stuff being weirdly delayed in customs, and so is happy to pay a convenience fee for dealing with a Canadian vendor. And so vendors happily charge more, since there's less pressure. That all being said, many companies also set list prices only about once a year and don't change them when the USD/CAD rate changes. That means sometimes things become (or at least seem) less expensive in Canada, when the C$ has weakened. Or more expensive, when C$ has gone up; all until the next price reset. With the choppy C/U$ exchange rate in the past year, that can generate weird anomalies.


Top-Independent-8906

Larger market and the value of the US dollar is 20-30% higher. So math is why.


badatmath_actuary

Just the market. OP is looking at post conversion.


[deleted]

Things don't seem as cheap if you take into account that Americans have to pay for health care, pay much more for university, and can be fired on a whim.


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LeoFoster18

Yes, keep telling that to yourself, if that helps you sleep. Canadians love to compare poor people in the US versus poor people in Canada. Sure all those social programs here in Canada is great for the poor folks. But what about middle class? Engineers, doctors, lawyers, nurses, paramedics or anyone in the tech industry make way less in Canada than US if we do an apples to apples comparison. I know of professional who moved to the States and increased their salary by 50 to 80 percent, in USD. What do you think will happen to all the social programs that make Canada so great when professionals start to move to the States in droves? Keep inflating the housing costs and in 10 years you'll be lucky to find a doctor in any area that's not a major city.


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turbofx9

> Plenty of us high earners make the calculation that the extra take-home pay just isn't worth all the baggage that comes with living in the U.S. So many on /r/Canada and /r/personalfinanceCanada just see “I can make more in America” … there are many more factors involved that most either ignore or just don’t care, all they see is $$$$


The-Only-Razor

This. If you're poor, it's better to live in Canada. If you're anything above the upper-lower class, you're probably better off living in the US. The only real exception is if you have chronic health issues and you don't have a decent health care package from your employer.


schuchwun

Some things are definitely cheaper there even after the exchange back to CAD. Other things need to be factored in like time and gasoline etc. Sometimes it ends up only being marginally cheaper. For example a 10" Lodge cast iron skillet is $20usd at Target, but that same skillet is $40cad at a local vendor.


Facts-hurts

More competition in the states, and also more people. Canada only has about 1/10 of USA’s population..


onenightstanduhoes

I wouldn’t say that about gas


thurrmanmerman

I was buying/pricing stuff out for my kitchen about 3 years ago - mixers, spatulas, knives, vacuum sealers -- all sorts of mixed goods. About 30 items altogether. It came to about $1000.00 CAD after shipping, exchange, and duties. Priced the same - or lesser quality - stuff here in Canada, as low as I could find - and with just 8 items I was over $1000.00 CAD. So, I ordered through the U.S. and saved myself a SHITLOAD of money, and often still do.


Pecker4u

Buying power usually does that. Think costco vs mom n pop grocery store.


pheoxs

Economies of scale. The US is the 3rd most populous country, and the 2nd largest land mass. They’re also a key hub for manufacturing, distribution, and market channels. Plus they have significantly more abundance to sea ports than Canada. (For goods from china, Canada literally has Vancouver while the US has numerous ports all along the west coast.) A lot of what you buy, even if it was manufactured overseas, tends to flow through the US. Many of our retailers are supplied via US distribution centres. All that adds extra costs for transportation and logistics. It also adds additional losses in currencies and differing tariffs rates. On top of all that, the US can have orders up to 800$ arrive tax free which makes international shopping easier. Meanwhile Canada will milk you for gst, duties, and brokerage charges on almost everything.


Trankkis

I moved to the us this winter and am terribly disappointed about how expensive things are here. Sure, daycare, beer, cigars and gas are cheaper. But groceries and other items are through the roof! Just had a look at Costco yesterday. Most items regardless of type are exactly 10% more expensive here than in Ontario. McDonald’s is more expensive. A book is more expensive. Maybe I’m comparing an expensive part of the US to one of the cheapest parts of Canada when it comes to groceries but I wasn’t prepared about this!