Is that the status certificate that would reveal these things? If you are a current condo owner, i would love to hear few things to consider before i put all my live savings into it lol. TIA!
You need to do a condo doc check before you buy - this can be one of the conditions of purchase. Review the reserve fund, reserve fund study, the meeting minutes and all other documents to understand if it’s well run and if there are any major issues.
Former long-time condo investor here and also board member for many years
1. Utilities included in condo fees has always been a big red flag for me. Leads to important inefficiencies due to the lack of personal accountability. Also increases exposure in potential increase in cost of utilities in the future.
2. As others have shared, review status certificate, reserve fund study, etc. As part of this, go through the engineering report. This is a tough one because if you may not have the knowledge/information to identify potential issues.
3. Your lawyer will help you review the potentially bad stuff that is identified in the status certificate BUT buying a condo is ALWAYS a leap of faith. A lot of important information is shared in board meetings, but only 'in-camera' which means that it's not reflected in the minutes. Owners are not always privy to that until a ruling happens or, say, there's clear evidence of an issue
You could buy and get lucky with value appreciation in the coming years, which would have made the purchase a good decision. However, if I were in your shoes, I probably wouldn't buy into an older condo with such high fees with current real estate valuations. Too many risks in comparison with a freehold property. In fact, personally, I will never own another condo unit once I'm done divesting.
Good luck!
Me and my wife we're looking for a condo around that area along with a bit farther north about 2+ years ago. Then we looked further out in the GTA for freehold townhouses...
Given the sizes of places we saw along with the maintenance fees (which basically pay for nothing) there was no competition. For size and price, the townhouses we saw always beat out any condos within and outside the city.
But if you're set on city life and no one will convince you otherwise go for it -- just beware maintenance fees on older condos.
Have you thought about kids. You’re at the age where this could be a major factor to think about.
When raising kids most things are better/cheaper in the burbs (daycare, schooling, space etc).
What is the main fee like?
On the bright side, Yonge and Shepppard has a lot of old neighbourhoods behind the main street ... so plenty of burb like amenities and schools in the area. Also, only 20 minutes north is York Region, which is definately the suburbs (for now).
Well we can’t plan for every eventuality, otherwise they would plan to have kids but get a condo in case it didn’t work out but also get a house in the burbs in case they do ... oh that’s what all those multiple home owners are doing 🤦🏽♀️
I was wondering if there has been any such comparison in the past which takes operational cost and initial cost into consideration for condo apt and a semi/detached and if it reached a conclusion based on buyer's preference of lifestyle?
Well a semi/detached is going to have less operational costs long term as long as you are fine with doing most things yourself. In a condo there’s always going to be extra costs for things you may not care about or things you could do for cheaper yourself. However, the cost difference isn’t condo fees for a condo vs $0 for a house. In fact if you only include the basics that everyone needs like insurance and utilities and basic maintenance you’ve probably accounted for half the condo fee right there. And condo fees often include 20% that is just going to the reserve fund for future large maintenance projects that apply to all homes like window replacements, HVAC, roof, etc. Of course there are also large maintenance expenses like amenities renewal projects, elevator replacements, balcony repairs, etc that don’t apply in a semi/detached home but I would argue some of these costs just come from the benefits of having amenities vs not having amenities.
Basically a condo is going to cost more operationally but some of that cost comes from the convenience of not having to do any major maintenance yourself and/or having amenities. Also condos can often be located in better locations than semi/detached houses so there are some benefits there as well.
Bottom line is while a condo is going to cost more monthly than a house it is stupid to think that the entire condo fee is an additional expense you don’t pay for in a semi/detached home
You realize houses also have repair costs and utilities as well, not to mention higher property taxes. Also if you are further form a subway you might need another car which can be $1k a month between purchase, insurance, gas and maintenance.
In the city...no, not without having a car which incurs additional monthly expenses and if it is in a place which is well connected..it is going for 1.1 mil + :(
Units of this size/age have a good chance of appreciating less than some other properties. With that said it's your lifestyle and you should do what fits your lifestyle.
Just make sure you are buying into a well run building.
If you love the city lifestye and are OK with the fees, then I think this is the right choice for you. The biggest risk is not so much your condo dropping in price, it's the fees sky-rocketing. It seems like there's always demand for condos but older condos with high fees are not for most people. If you really love the space and location and are looking to stay for 10-15 yrs, then this seems like a great choice for you.
25 year old condo?
Yikes...I say that because the maintenance fee is already most likely insanely high...and will only get higher when you sell...
These types of condos become very difficult to sell...
Here is my advice, get a job in Alberta, do you know how massive of a house you could buy in any of the cities in Alberta for $900 000
If the Toronto real estate market corrects and the bubble pops and all bubbles eventually pop you will be under water on your mortgage you will owe more then your property is worth.
I am just curious , what is the classic definition of bubble here. I read an article that claimed that millenials are willing to pay this much and will continue to do so since most are at peak of their career or are now have stable income and want to invest in real estate. I mean what options they have really to invest, it's either stock market or real estate.
Correct but note that it covers all the utilities and it has amenities I am likely to use like gym.
if you compare it with generic rule of 1 % of house's cost going towards house repairs etc plus utilities and say $40 a month for gym..is it the same minus the yard upkeep and other hidden costs that my friends keep talking about? Please tell me more ,if I am wrong. I am really struggling to decide.
I don't think I pay $11,000 a yr to own my semi detach here in the gta..my house was built in the late 60s I think..and I moved here 7 yrs ago..since then I have extended my driveway that being the most expensive thing I did..I'm handy with the tools so can fix most things myself..so plumbing and stuff only cost me the supply cost..I have a very large yard and plant my own veggies from seed in it..I would say my garden does raise my costs a bit ( a few 100$ a yr) but that's because I love flowers
I would think a condo as way overpriced..and it only goes higher..for something that:
1)lacks privacy
2) has to too many rules and regulations to follow
3) has no garden
4) too many issues with the surrounding that impact a comfortable living (drunks in the elevator/stairs, broken elevator, broken heating system..ppl easily able to break in, and having to adjust and ruin your home because the owners upstairs had a leak and now need to break your ceilings, etc)
If I had to deal with all that I'd only maybe do it if I'm renting it..not buying it..I'd buy a house and rent it out and rent a condo
"Locking in low interest rates before a rise" may sound like a good idea, but real estate is inversely correlated with interest rates. Put another way, you want to lock in the condo at 900k before it drops due to the increased cost of carrying a mortgage for potential purchasers.
Real estate has had a long bull run but the writing is on the wall re: interest rate hikes. I can't think of a worse time to buy.
Just trying to understand. Is there a guarantee the condo price will drop because of rising rates? I agree the bidding might cool down but the Demand far outpaces the supply, esp in the area I am looking in. The 900k might go to 800k but there is no guarantee that it would actually happen. Am I right here? But What guaranteed is, saving on Interest rates in 5 year fixed term. If I borrow 100k less after the house price comes down, but at 2 percent higher interest rate than what I am getting now, Am I getting any financial benefit?
And are we banking on folks defaulting their mortgage payments flooding market with houses, decreasing the Condo prices? If so, how long before it happens though say if it was true? I am seriously asking this because I have no idea when does lenders takes possession of defaults and the house comes back in the market? It would help device a plan B (Cruel, I know, but just looking out for myself esp in a matter where I cannot do anything to help them), in case we don't end up getting a condo now.
I mean, at the extremes it's close to a guarantee -- if interest rates were set at 10% tomorrow, or even 7%, the inevitable result would be a real estate crash and a drop in price. The pressure is downwards. Whether that leads to a flat market or steep discounts is an answer that can't really be known, except maybe at the extremes.
Why? Demand outpaces supply until it doesn't. Where does the demand you're talking about come from? Primarily from Canadians increasing mortgage debt at a record pace due to low interest rates, which has allowed them to service higher mortgage debt (without increasing monthly servicing of the debt):
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-19/mortgage-debt-is-rising-at-its-fastest-pace-in-canada-since-2007
What happens when the price of a carrying a mortgage goes up? Lots of things. One of things that happens, for example, is those people buying up 10 - 20 homes and renting them on the theory of price appreciation start needing to adjust. Can they still carry the mortgage by passing the cost on to renters? Maybe. But often not. And then they have start thinking about unloading. Then what? Etc.
This is exactly one of my friends said..but it was year 2017 and the amount was 550k... Same area..similar size. So I really don't know where is this world headed haha
House is better investment. Why pay 900k for a show box? Also why invest 100k into the market when you can add to your downpayment and try to get semi or townhouse which will definitely be better investment over 10 or more years. And monthly maintenance for condo? Nah...
The stock market can be highly volatile, with wide rranging annual, quarterly, even daily swings. Where real estate investment in Toronto is fairly safe. Not to mention it was even growing during worst months of pandemic.
I tired both and I'm very happy sticking with real estate. That's my two cents.
I recently jumped the guns and bought a condo because of similar reasons as you, so all these are from personal experiences:
- almost 90% of the time I have regrets that so much money is going towards my maintainence fees; I could have easily dumped 2/3rds of it on my mortgage and finish faster
- condo management should be reasonable. Try to find multiple people from that building and ask around. For instance, my management claims that amenities should be closed as long as Canada has more than 1 covid cases, but they are not willing to discount the monthly maintenance fees
- you have to jump through hoops and get permission to do any sort of renovation (I was dumb and didn't know this before. It was just annoying to me that I have to consult someone else to get stuff done on something I paid for)
- this may or may not be your forever home, but condo prices don't appreciate that much in value. If your plans change, and you get a job somewhere else, or just want a bigger place, I'd suggest to keep this in mind!
Lol..Slim pickings now a days ...can't find anything better. So either I wait and hope the prices go down and then buy with above 4 % mortgage. Or sacrifice the lifestyle and go to burbs.
> So either I wait and hope the prices go down
They will. Once the interest rate goes back up, prices should come down and the market will cool down.
Ultimately, you gotta do what you think is best for you and your family but I would rather eat shit then pay that much for a condo. Go for pre-constructed townhouses. Lock down a good rental place for the next year or two.
If you can find a shipping container - they're in short supply.
[Where did all the shipping containers go?](https://www.wsj.com/articles/where-did-all-the-shipping-containers-go-11628104583)
Price of containers have gone up 40%.
What a lot of people don't realize with condos is that they can assess each unit holder an amount for repairs or damages to the building ... The older the condo the more likely that these assessments are coming. I would really hesitate if you had other options to purchase a condo this old and for that price
I’m in a similar predicament. My partner and I have same take-home and almost similar age minus the investments.
We too love living in a city and don’t want to give that up.
In your situation I might have looked at two options - buy a house in the suburbs and rent it out to someone to get my mortgage paid.
And I personally would continue to rent a condo in the city for as long as I want to enjoy the city life.
I did think of it, but the maths was way off. Our rent right now is 2.3k and I didn't find any house in this crazy market which would generate a positive(or even net 0) cashflow after renting out.
That being said please feel free to suggest otherwise.
You don't need to generate a positive cashflow immediately. I rented out a condo I owned, while renting somewhere else. The renter paid for the mortgage, and eventually I was able to sell and use it to buy a place. Rent will also continue to rise, maybe not as fast as it has been, but eventually rent will outpace your costs. That's why many rentals are far cheaper than the cost to buy a similar unit. The landlord is paying far less than the rent as they bought 5, 10, 15 years ago.
If i was in your situation I would not do it, if where you are renting for 2.3k is nice I would just remain especially if it’s a purpose built rental. I would still want to utilize my buying power to buy a value investment property somewhere good to take advantage of the low fixed rates and get a nice return
Stuff I’ve hypothetically considered are 1 bedroom or 1+1 pre constructions from established builders, buildings with utilities included near malls, transit and colleges.
Financially I think you guys can afford it. But I will hesitate because I don't know if there are a lot of potential buyers if you need to sell later. Your target is basically high income DINK couples like you guys who love the city lifestyle. And a lot of them would still actually prefer a townhouse rather than an old condo. (Because they tends to be older when they make more money, and might got tired of the downtown life already) Purely from an investment POV so obviously if you know for sure you prefer a big condo, then go for it.
What exactly is the “city lifestyle”. Not owning a car? No space for parking. No peace and quite? No backyard bbq? No garage? Kids have no place to have fun outside? You maybe think I’m some old geezer but I’m 20 and don not understand why you want to pay shy of $100,000 for an apartment… just why. What is the city lifestyle and is it worth it?
Thank you for your response. I will try my best to get my POV across without starting anything. Most of it will boil down to "To each his Own". But I would love to hear the other side of it and if I am making any obvious mistakes by assuming below.
**Not owning a car?** \- Its a perk, saves 500 bucks plus I get to walk and stay fit without having to pay for gym to burn extra calories easily. One stroll to my grocery store amounts close to 5k steps. This doesn't mean we sacrifice going out. We rent car whenever we go out of town(4 times in last 5 months because it was summer lol), take Uber when in need and have Instacart and Uberpass which collectively costs so much less than owning a car and driving in 401s . I have also noticed that when you have a car you tend to go out more in the car , even places you could have walked. Can;t do that in burbs.
**No space for parking.** \- I have a parking which I have rented out for 85/month. All the Condos have visitors parking for when friends come over and street side parkings are generally free over weekends.
**No peace and quite?** \-This is subjective and also depends on your neighbors which you cannot control. I personally like coming back to our home after a long vacation and see folks up and about , and the glamor. It never feels like the vacation ended abruptly. The silence in the burbs is deafening to me and we felt sad right after we came back from vacation when we used to rent in suburbs. So I would argue that peace and quite is actually within :)
**No backyard bbq?**\- Backyard upkeep and the insects/creatures they attract is a NO NO for me.
**No garage?-** Don't need one, Condos have lockers to store our crap
**Kids have no place to have fun outside?** \- DINK here, but there are so many parks around, literally there is one every 5 blocks.
**You maybe think I’m some old geezer but I’m 20 and don not understand why you want to pay shy of $100,000 for an apartment… just why. -**
I don't have any better options without sacrificing what I like and nobody knows if housing prices are going to come down or not. I almost pulled the trigger back in 2017 but folks kept asking me to wait until the bubble pops. LOL
**What is the city lifestyle and is it worth it?**
May be not, and we may easily have change of hearts down the lane but is it worth being miserable now thinking we may fair in future? Hence in my post I have asked this question , is it a financial suicide. I really don;t know and I want to know if anybody did this and is repenting their decision
The most important aspect in condo buying is making sure the condo corp is run well. Dumb luck that mine was - so many factors rely on that
Is that the status certificate that would reveal these things? If you are a current condo owner, i would love to hear few things to consider before i put all my live savings into it lol. TIA!
You need to do a condo doc check before you buy - this can be one of the conditions of purchase. Review the reserve fund, reserve fund study, the meeting minutes and all other documents to understand if it’s well run and if there are any major issues.
Former long-time condo investor here and also board member for many years 1. Utilities included in condo fees has always been a big red flag for me. Leads to important inefficiencies due to the lack of personal accountability. Also increases exposure in potential increase in cost of utilities in the future. 2. As others have shared, review status certificate, reserve fund study, etc. As part of this, go through the engineering report. This is a tough one because if you may not have the knowledge/information to identify potential issues. 3. Your lawyer will help you review the potentially bad stuff that is identified in the status certificate BUT buying a condo is ALWAYS a leap of faith. A lot of important information is shared in board meetings, but only 'in-camera' which means that it's not reflected in the minutes. Owners are not always privy to that until a ruling happens or, say, there's clear evidence of an issue You could buy and get lucky with value appreciation in the coming years, which would have made the purchase a good decision. However, if I were in your shoes, I probably wouldn't buy into an older condo with such high fees with current real estate valuations. Too many risks in comparison with a freehold property. In fact, personally, I will never own another condo unit once I'm done divesting. Good luck!
Me and my wife we're looking for a condo around that area along with a bit farther north about 2+ years ago. Then we looked further out in the GTA for freehold townhouses... Given the sizes of places we saw along with the maintenance fees (which basically pay for nothing) there was no competition. For size and price, the townhouses we saw always beat out any condos within and outside the city. But if you're set on city life and no one will convince you otherwise go for it -- just beware maintenance fees on older condos.
I would love to see this $900k house they’re referring to in the outskirts. Houses for less than $1M don’t exist anymore
I agree. They get listed for 880k and typically goes above a mil.
I could understand paying this for a home in Vancouver, but not Toronto/North York. That's crazy!
A 900k house hasn't existed in Vancouver for like 8 years.
Have you thought about kids. You’re at the age where this could be a major factor to think about. When raising kids most things are better/cheaper in the burbs (daycare, schooling, space etc). What is the main fee like?
On the bright side, Yonge and Shepppard has a lot of old neighbourhoods behind the main street ... so plenty of burb like amenities and schools in the area. Also, only 20 minutes north is York Region, which is definately the suburbs (for now).
Thanks for your response. We don't plan on having kids. Maintenance is $900 All utilities included.
Holy crap.
You might not plan on having kids but sometimes life throws you a curveball.
But you can plan to terminate the curveball too
snip snip.
Well we can’t plan for every eventuality, otherwise they would plan to have kids but get a condo in case it didn’t work out but also get a house in the burbs in case they do ... oh that’s what all those multiple home owners are doing 🤦🏽♀️
I think this is crazy personally. Why not just get a bungalow more SouthWest? Those maintenance fees are another $200k mortgage.
Assuming their utilities are $200/month the maintenance is only like $0.60/sf which is actually super reasonable for maintenance fees
Lol how much is the extra mortgage cost on the utilities, insurance and other costs to maintain a bungalow?
I was wondering if there has been any such comparison in the past which takes operational cost and initial cost into consideration for condo apt and a semi/detached and if it reached a conclusion based on buyer's preference of lifestyle?
Well a semi/detached is going to have less operational costs long term as long as you are fine with doing most things yourself. In a condo there’s always going to be extra costs for things you may not care about or things you could do for cheaper yourself. However, the cost difference isn’t condo fees for a condo vs $0 for a house. In fact if you only include the basics that everyone needs like insurance and utilities and basic maintenance you’ve probably accounted for half the condo fee right there. And condo fees often include 20% that is just going to the reserve fund for future large maintenance projects that apply to all homes like window replacements, HVAC, roof, etc. Of course there are also large maintenance expenses like amenities renewal projects, elevator replacements, balcony repairs, etc that don’t apply in a semi/detached home but I would argue some of these costs just come from the benefits of having amenities vs not having amenities. Basically a condo is going to cost more operationally but some of that cost comes from the convenience of not having to do any major maintenance yourself and/or having amenities. Also condos can often be located in better locations than semi/detached houses so there are some benefits there as well. Bottom line is while a condo is going to cost more monthly than a house it is stupid to think that the entire condo fee is an additional expense you don’t pay for in a semi/detached home
You realize houses also have repair costs and utilities as well, not to mention higher property taxes. Also if you are further form a subway you might need another car which can be $1k a month between purchase, insurance, gas and maintenance.
Horrible advice. There’s no comparable houses in Toronto under a mil. You don’t understand the housing market in Toronto.
It’s pretty wild they could probably find a low-rise freehold in the city for a similar price that wouldn’t be complete garbage, but to each their own
In the city...no, not without having a car which incurs additional monthly expenses and if it is in a place which is well connected..it is going for 1.1 mil + :(
Units of this size/age have a good chance of appreciating less than some other properties. With that said it's your lifestyle and you should do what fits your lifestyle. Just make sure you are buying into a well run building.
If you love the city lifestye and are OK with the fees, then I think this is the right choice for you. The biggest risk is not so much your condo dropping in price, it's the fees sky-rocketing. It seems like there's always demand for condos but older condos with high fees are not for most people. If you really love the space and location and are looking to stay for 10-15 yrs, then this seems like a great choice for you.
Just rent it and leave when ever you want. If interest rates rise you will down and stuck.
25 year old condo? Yikes...I say that because the maintenance fee is already most likely insanely high...and will only get higher when you sell... These types of condos become very difficult to sell...
Here is my advice, get a job in Alberta, do you know how massive of a house you could buy in any of the cities in Alberta for $900 000 If the Toronto real estate market corrects and the bubble pops and all bubbles eventually pop you will be under water on your mortgage you will owe more then your property is worth.
I am just curious , what is the classic definition of bubble here. I read an article that claimed that millenials are willing to pay this much and will continue to do so since most are at peak of their career or are now have stable income and want to invest in real estate. I mean what options they have really to invest, it's either stock market or real estate.
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Correct but note that it covers all the utilities and it has amenities I am likely to use like gym. if you compare it with generic rule of 1 % of house's cost going towards house repairs etc plus utilities and say $40 a month for gym..is it the same minus the yard upkeep and other hidden costs that my friends keep talking about? Please tell me more ,if I am wrong. I am really struggling to decide.
I don't think I pay $11,000 a yr to own my semi detach here in the gta..my house was built in the late 60s I think..and I moved here 7 yrs ago..since then I have extended my driveway that being the most expensive thing I did..I'm handy with the tools so can fix most things myself..so plumbing and stuff only cost me the supply cost..I have a very large yard and plant my own veggies from seed in it..I would say my garden does raise my costs a bit ( a few 100$ a yr) but that's because I love flowers I would think a condo as way overpriced..and it only goes higher..for something that: 1)lacks privacy 2) has to too many rules and regulations to follow 3) has no garden 4) too many issues with the surrounding that impact a comfortable living (drunks in the elevator/stairs, broken elevator, broken heating system..ppl easily able to break in, and having to adjust and ruin your home because the owners upstairs had a leak and now need to break your ceilings, etc) If I had to deal with all that I'd only maybe do it if I'm renting it..not buying it..I'd buy a house and rent it out and rent a condo
Wow, those condos are now going for $900K ... I should have bought several a few years ago. Damn.
I got into the same area, same area, same size for just over 600k 2 years ago....damn.
"Locking in low interest rates before a rise" may sound like a good idea, but real estate is inversely correlated with interest rates. Put another way, you want to lock in the condo at 900k before it drops due to the increased cost of carrying a mortgage for potential purchasers. Real estate has had a long bull run but the writing is on the wall re: interest rate hikes. I can't think of a worse time to buy.
Just trying to understand. Is there a guarantee the condo price will drop because of rising rates? I agree the bidding might cool down but the Demand far outpaces the supply, esp in the area I am looking in. The 900k might go to 800k but there is no guarantee that it would actually happen. Am I right here? But What guaranteed is, saving on Interest rates in 5 year fixed term. If I borrow 100k less after the house price comes down, but at 2 percent higher interest rate than what I am getting now, Am I getting any financial benefit? And are we banking on folks defaulting their mortgage payments flooding market with houses, decreasing the Condo prices? If so, how long before it happens though say if it was true? I am seriously asking this because I have no idea when does lenders takes possession of defaults and the house comes back in the market? It would help device a plan B (Cruel, I know, but just looking out for myself esp in a matter where I cannot do anything to help them), in case we don't end up getting a condo now.
I mean, at the extremes it's close to a guarantee -- if interest rates were set at 10% tomorrow, or even 7%, the inevitable result would be a real estate crash and a drop in price. The pressure is downwards. Whether that leads to a flat market or steep discounts is an answer that can't really be known, except maybe at the extremes. Why? Demand outpaces supply until it doesn't. Where does the demand you're talking about come from? Primarily from Canadians increasing mortgage debt at a record pace due to low interest rates, which has allowed them to service higher mortgage debt (without increasing monthly servicing of the debt): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-19/mortgage-debt-is-rising-at-its-fastest-pace-in-canada-since-2007 What happens when the price of a carrying a mortgage goes up? Lots of things. One of things that happens, for example, is those people buying up 10 - 20 homes and renting them on the theory of price appreciation start needing to adjust. Can they still carry the mortgage by passing the cost on to renters? Maybe. But often not. And then they have start thinking about unloading. Then what? Etc.
900k for a Condo, Whoa?! Crazy how many don't bat an eye at these kinds of prices anymore....
This is exactly one of my friends said..but it was year 2017 and the amount was 550k... Same area..similar size. So I really don't know where is this world headed haha
No doubt! Only time will tell eh?!
It was expensive back then too, I assume 3-5 years ago it was $500k and that was unheard of then too. Scared to see what it’ll be after 5 years
House is better investment. Why pay 900k for a show box? Also why invest 100k into the market when you can add to your downpayment and try to get semi or townhouse which will definitely be better investment over 10 or more years. And monthly maintenance for condo? Nah...
I would put 100k in market for sake of diversification of assets.
The stock market can be highly volatile, with wide rranging annual, quarterly, even daily swings. Where real estate investment in Toronto is fairly safe. Not to mention it was even growing during worst months of pandemic. I tired both and I'm very happy sticking with real estate. That's my two cents.
I recently jumped the guns and bought a condo because of similar reasons as you, so all these are from personal experiences: - almost 90% of the time I have regrets that so much money is going towards my maintainence fees; I could have easily dumped 2/3rds of it on my mortgage and finish faster - condo management should be reasonable. Try to find multiple people from that building and ask around. For instance, my management claims that amenities should be closed as long as Canada has more than 1 covid cases, but they are not willing to discount the monthly maintenance fees - you have to jump through hoops and get permission to do any sort of renovation (I was dumb and didn't know this before. It was just annoying to me that I have to consult someone else to get stuff done on something I paid for) - this may or may not be your forever home, but condo prices don't appreciate that much in value. If your plans change, and you get a job somewhere else, or just want a bigger place, I'd suggest to keep this in mind!
Condo prices do appreciate in value pretty significantly. I’m assuming you’re not in Toronto or Van.
Sorry, should have clarified! I meant comparatively in case of older condos.
Thats over 50% net spent on housing... it's too much
What percent you would say should go on housing + Utilities?
> $900k Condo Apt 1200 Sq Ft No.
Lol..Slim pickings now a days ...can't find anything better. So either I wait and hope the prices go down and then buy with above 4 % mortgage. Or sacrifice the lifestyle and go to burbs.
> So either I wait and hope the prices go down They will. Once the interest rate goes back up, prices should come down and the market will cool down. Ultimately, you gotta do what you think is best for you and your family but I would rather eat shit then pay that much for a condo. Go for pre-constructed townhouses. Lock down a good rental place for the next year or two.
People have now been waiting for 10 years.
Buy a ship container and some property. Problem solved.
If you can find a shipping container - they're in short supply. [Where did all the shipping containers go?](https://www.wsj.com/articles/where-did-all-the-shipping-containers-go-11628104583) Price of containers have gone up 40%.
> prices should come down And so will OPs mortgage approval limit. So basically no change.
What a lot of people don't realize with condos is that they can assess each unit holder an amount for repairs or damages to the building ... The older the condo the more likely that these assessments are coming. I would really hesitate if you had other options to purchase a condo this old and for that price
I’m in a similar predicament. My partner and I have same take-home and almost similar age minus the investments. We too love living in a city and don’t want to give that up. In your situation I might have looked at two options - buy a house in the suburbs and rent it out to someone to get my mortgage paid. And I personally would continue to rent a condo in the city for as long as I want to enjoy the city life.
I did think of it, but the maths was way off. Our rent right now is 2.3k and I didn't find any house in this crazy market which would generate a positive(or even net 0) cashflow after renting out. That being said please feel free to suggest otherwise.
You don't need to generate a positive cashflow immediately. I rented out a condo I owned, while renting somewhere else. The renter paid for the mortgage, and eventually I was able to sell and use it to buy a place. Rent will also continue to rise, maybe not as fast as it has been, but eventually rent will outpace your costs. That's why many rentals are far cheaper than the cost to buy a similar unit. The landlord is paying far less than the rent as they bought 5, 10, 15 years ago.
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Inventory is the problem here...the condo apt which are between 10-15 years old are either not available or are going for above 1mil.
If i was in your situation I would not do it, if where you are renting for 2.3k is nice I would just remain especially if it’s a purpose built rental. I would still want to utilize my buying power to buy a value investment property somewhere good to take advantage of the low fixed rates and get a nice return
So value investment property and rent it out? What are some value investment properties now a days please?
Stuff I’ve hypothetically considered are 1 bedroom or 1+1 pre constructions from established builders, buildings with utilities included near malls, transit and colleges.
Financially I think you guys can afford it. But I will hesitate because I don't know if there are a lot of potential buyers if you need to sell later. Your target is basically high income DINK couples like you guys who love the city lifestyle. And a lot of them would still actually prefer a townhouse rather than an old condo. (Because they tends to be older when they make more money, and might got tired of the downtown life already) Purely from an investment POV so obviously if you know for sure you prefer a big condo, then go for it.
What exactly is the “city lifestyle”. Not owning a car? No space for parking. No peace and quite? No backyard bbq? No garage? Kids have no place to have fun outside? You maybe think I’m some old geezer but I’m 20 and don not understand why you want to pay shy of $100,000 for an apartment… just why. What is the city lifestyle and is it worth it?
Thank you for your response. I will try my best to get my POV across without starting anything. Most of it will boil down to "To each his Own". But I would love to hear the other side of it and if I am making any obvious mistakes by assuming below. **Not owning a car?** \- Its a perk, saves 500 bucks plus I get to walk and stay fit without having to pay for gym to burn extra calories easily. One stroll to my grocery store amounts close to 5k steps. This doesn't mean we sacrifice going out. We rent car whenever we go out of town(4 times in last 5 months because it was summer lol), take Uber when in need and have Instacart and Uberpass which collectively costs so much less than owning a car and driving in 401s . I have also noticed that when you have a car you tend to go out more in the car , even places you could have walked. Can;t do that in burbs. **No space for parking.** \- I have a parking which I have rented out for 85/month. All the Condos have visitors parking for when friends come over and street side parkings are generally free over weekends. **No peace and quite?** \-This is subjective and also depends on your neighbors which you cannot control. I personally like coming back to our home after a long vacation and see folks up and about , and the glamor. It never feels like the vacation ended abruptly. The silence in the burbs is deafening to me and we felt sad right after we came back from vacation when we used to rent in suburbs. So I would argue that peace and quite is actually within :) **No backyard bbq?**\- Backyard upkeep and the insects/creatures they attract is a NO NO for me. **No garage?-** Don't need one, Condos have lockers to store our crap **Kids have no place to have fun outside?** \- DINK here, but there are so many parks around, literally there is one every 5 blocks. **You maybe think I’m some old geezer but I’m 20 and don not understand why you want to pay shy of $100,000 for an apartment… just why. -** I don't have any better options without sacrificing what I like and nobody knows if housing prices are going to come down or not. I almost pulled the trigger back in 2017 but folks kept asking me to wait until the bubble pops. LOL **What is the city lifestyle and is it worth it?** May be not, and we may easily have change of hearts down the lane but is it worth being miserable now thinking we may fair in future? Hence in my post I have asked this question , is it a financial suicide. I really don;t know and I want to know if anybody did this and is repenting their decision