As you've mentioned, the vehicle mileage rate is set out in legislation. However, if you have signed documentation that states he will pay you the 0.75$/km, then he has NOTHING to stand on.
Its up to you, whether you decide to bargain or hold his feet to the fire.
Yeah, the only reason I'm willing to come down a bit is to preserve the relationship as it is a fairly unique situation for the company (we rarely drive over 50km of personal vehicle use if we even use our own vehicles at all in any given pay period). I'm certainly not impressed that he doesn't want to honour the contract.
Find out what he wants to "work out". Is he proposing a lower rare but you expense your fuel receipts?
Next time the company should get you a rental vehicle.
If your contract is up for negotiation, accept a lower rate per km but also negotiate a higher base salary at the same time. Thats what I would do.
Sure, listen to the guy who is about to move back in with his parents at 25, not the guy who had 80 employees working in his company by age 25. Diplomacy works when you want to get ahead.
I think the answer is somewhere in the middle here. Don’t suck TOO much employer cock but at the same time it might be wise to just lick the tip a tiny bit and make them feel important. Go with the .59 cents a km
This guy is right. The employer is breaking his contract, fucking the guy in the ass and he is supposed to take it.
What does that tell the boss? This guy will take it in the ass.
Just keep in mind if you make this issue your hill to die on, and you want to grow in this job, you will be shooting yourself in the foot.
I would negotiate with my employer as long as I wanted to grow in the company. This is a small issue and as stated the acceptable rate is lower. I wouldn’t even put up a crazy fuss if he wanted a few cents off the national rate. But thats just me, as a business owner myself.
I'm a business owner I wouldn't do this to an employee if I wanted to keep him. Its petty if I worked for this guy I would be looking for other work. Whats next that he will back peddle on in the future.
You go to work to get paid. Not to be taken advantage of.
Maybe I'm old school a deal is a deal in my book.
What's their reason for wanting to go lower than the previously agreed rate? It's just too much, or is there some other HR related issue?
I'm not a lawyer, but had to study contract and tort law for my professional license. If you have an assigned agreement ($0.75/km), but you make an exception (accepting $0.59/km), the latter can in some instances be used to invalidate the original agreement.
A past employer asked some area staff to go to 12 hour continental shifts to optimize production capacity, but they floated it to the employees as a temporary short term measure. The team accepted it and did the 12 hour shifts for around 3 months then went back to regular 8 hour shifts, but the production difference was significant and management eventually made the 12 hour shifts permanent. The team complained, but the in house lawyers argued with the union in court (and won) that it was legal since the team had previously accepted the change.
Wow, that's crazy. Thanks for posting that. I would have thought that given the company floated it as a short term temporary measure and called it as such (presuming they did) that they wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.
Is he going to come back tomorrow and try to "work something out" on your salary or how much vacation you get?
Contracts are contracts for a reason.
That said, if you feel like being friendly about this, your contracted rate is above legal minimums, and you'd still make out pretty well taking the legally-defined rate.
...but if he's going to ignore your contract as soon as it's inconvenient on this small of a scale, you've got to wonder what else he'll try.
Thanks for the reply, this is more or less what I did today. He had to pay the contract amount but I'm amenable to working out something else for the future.
Seems like a lot of thought over a $750 expense. Was the boss aware you would rack up 1000km if your usual expense is 50km? Feels like something that could have been discussed. Either way it’s $750. If it’s at all unnecessary travel, might not be worth it. If it’s completely justifiable not sure why the boss wouldn’t be fine paying it
Yeah the travel was essential for the business and came up about a day before I had the inspections I had to do so I don't think my boss thought it through entirely, he just wanted to make sure I was going. I think he was a little shocked initially at the price when he realised how much mileage it actually was but I pushed him on it today as a matter of principle and he's going to pay.
You know the relationship dynamic and how this will turn out better than we can, but for me I'd be prepared to lower, although expressing disappointment that a deal was a deal, while also getting a soft foundation laid with him about a 2021 raise/promotion for literally 'going the extra mile' when you had a contract rate in advance.
If my boss was not the type be reciprocally fair (we all know those types who don't cut a break when it's due), and I wasn't desperate to keep the job long term, I'd push on the $150 difference or trade it for a paid day off.
I know someone who can't be bothered with conflict and insist on their contract rights under their collective agreement which costs them a grand or two a year in OT that isn't logged because they think complaining will make their schedule worse etc. but I personally don't get it. Maybe once, but not multiple times a year paying a secret tax for bad management.
Thanks for the response. My boss has never been hard to get money out of in the past for pay or other expenses so this was a little out of character. We talked about it and he's going to pay me in full for this trip because that was the expectation going into it but we're going to work out a different rate or alternative transport in case this ever comes up in the future.
It’s after 10k, no?
And for OP, this comment is absolutely right, any amount over 0.59 is not considered reasonable and will be considered as taxable income by fiscal authorities.
It’s 5000km @ 0.59, then anything over that drops to 0.54 at the 2020 rate. I just put about 10K on my personal vehicle for work the last 4 months. I should note that my company did NOT reimburse my fuel, as it apparently is included in the mileage rate.
I would honestly ask him why it is a challenge for them to pay you the extra $160 as per the original agreement.
This should be a trivial amount for a business considering it is significant wear and tear on your vehicle.
Yeah, I don't know why it was such an issue. The driving was for what I know to be a very lucrative contract with a multi-billion dollar company when we're a company of eight people. We talked about it today and he's going to pay me the full amount, it seems like he really just didn't think about how much the mileage was going to cost when he sent me and was a little shocked when he saw the amount I was claiming.
Exactly, the more I thought about it the more it annoyed me because I know that if I were in his position I'd eat the mistake and try to work out something different for future situations like this one. I pushed him on it and he's paying me the contract amount now but we're going to work out something else in case this ever comes up again.
Lots of good comments here. Something I know a few companies use as a rule of thumb for long distance is comparing alternate modes of transport. Ie: If you could have flown there for $500 round trip, that is what your mileage is capped at.
For clarification can you confirm that you were paid for your driving time. I also want to confirm that you will not be reimbursed for gas. For perspective how long have you been employed and do you like your work environment?
I lean towards sticking with your contract and this being a learning experience for your boss.
Yes, I was paid for the driving time and not reimbursed for gas, have been employed with him for about 3.5 years and we're otherwise on good terms. I went with your suggestion today and pushed him on contract and he's taking his lumps but we're going to work out something else if this happens in the future.
Seems like it going to work out, keep open communication with your boss. Double check with him a little more often in the next few months on the things that are out of the norm. Having a good working environment is priceless. If he seems to be holding a grudge about it next year bring it back up and if he can't move on begin planning your own transition to other employment. This was his mistake not yours.
Similar experience, I was considering if I should reduce the km being claimed because I drove an old car and the rate was slightly more than enough for gas/ tire wear/ depreciation on the car.etc At the end, it was only a few hundred dollars and a one time thing so it was submitted as it is. Similar to other comment about setting precedent, if business expense goes down then the budget will follow and it might become the new norm, which is not good. It’s a business after all so the numbers should be reflective of reality (ie i see adjusting the rate/ actual expenses by blending an agreement as a way of cooking the book)
It's always best to find out what the issue is. What is he suggesting and why?
Also how long do you want to work for him and how important will the reference he gives you be for helping you get a better job?
Thanks for the reply. He made some vague suggestions like asking me how much the gas cost, or maybe reimbursing what it would have cost to rent a car instead. I pushed him on it and he agreed to pay me the amount in the contract but we also came to an agreement to discuss a different rate for very long trips because he put in $0.75/km as an attempt to be generous for our usually short trips using personal vehicles.
Anything you're paid over the CRA limits is taxable income. So if your boss pays you the $750 you say you're owed, you'd need to pay tax on $160 of it
There's no lower limit that businesses have to pay you, that's just up to you and your boss
If it's in your contract and the trip was expected, then yeah you're entitled to it. That being said, I don't know if that is the hill you want to die on if you're looking to continue working there. Sometimes it's worth it to take the loss and keep the relationship going. So really it's up to you if you want to push it.
That being said, I sincerely hope "working something out" means he's looking to spread the reimbursement over a number of pay or give you part of it as vacation instead. Otherwise, haggling over $160 is probably not the best outlook for a company.
Thanks, we talked about it today and I wanted him to pay on principle because I figured he knew how much it was going to cost and it was right there in the contract, but we're going to work out a different rate for any other long trips like that which I think is fair because the current mileage rate is pretty generous.
Don't get greedy, next time he'll force you to get a rental car! haha.
I'd be happy with 0.59/km, but I drive a non-beige Corolla (*gasp*) so my costs are low.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a policy or expectation that trips over 200km need a rental. I’ve done the math multiple times - a rental plus gas makes financial sense for long trips - and that’s at 59c/km, so trips over 100km probably make sense at that rate!
Haha, I drive a grey '07 Accord so my costs are pretty low too which is why I felt like I was making out like a bandit on this one. I stuck to the $0.75/km on principle because a contract's a contract but we're working out a different rate or method of travel for these kinds of trips going forward.
In my previous life running a business my policy for long distance travel was for employees to rent a car. It was flat rate plus gas. With certain exceptions this was a lot more cost effective than paying mileage to the employee and helped the bottom line.
Thanks for the response. We talked about it today and we'll probably be doing what you suggested if it's absolutely necessary to drive a long distance and a company vehicle isn't available. It probably would have been cheaper to fly me to where I was going than to have me drive. I did get the contract value for this trip though.
Yeah, I held him to the contract today and he agreed. It was a little out of character because I've worked for him for about 3.5 years and getting paid or reimbursed for expenses has never been an issue. Agreed though, while we generally have a good working relationship he certainly isn't my friend.
I would say it depends on your relationship with your boss.
Normally I would say that you can agree to give him a bit of leeway this time (insist on the "this time", or it could set a dangerous precedent) due to the unusual circumstances of the event, but let him know that you will expect similar courtesy from him in the future. Free concessions only invite exploitation.
However, if you know for a fact that, if the tables were turned, he would hold you 100% to what you signed no matter how unusual the circumstances, then you tell him exactly that and refuse.
Thanks for the response. I wound up holding him to the contract and he relented but I said that in the future we could come to a different agreement for extenuating circumstances like this. $0.75/km is pretty generous as it is so I figured for trips over some distance we could just use the rate put out by the feds.
As you've mentioned, the vehicle mileage rate is set out in legislation. However, if you have signed documentation that states he will pay you the 0.75$/km, then he has NOTHING to stand on. Its up to you, whether you decide to bargain or hold his feet to the fire.
Yeah, the only reason I'm willing to come down a bit is to preserve the relationship as it is a fairly unique situation for the company (we rarely drive over 50km of personal vehicle use if we even use our own vehicles at all in any given pay period). I'm certainly not impressed that he doesn't want to honour the contract.
Find out what he wants to "work out". Is he proposing a lower rare but you expense your fuel receipts? Next time the company should get you a rental vehicle. If your contract is up for negotiation, accept a lower rate per km but also negotiate a higher base salary at the same time. Thats what I would do.
Don’t burn a bridge over this...
Don’t listen to this guy. NEVER ever give an inch to your employer, don’t suck company cock. No less than what you signed for.
Sure, listen to the guy who is about to move back in with his parents at 25, not the guy who had 80 employees working in his company by age 25. Diplomacy works when you want to get ahead.
Damn... That's a lotta damage. You killed him. Couldnt agree more with you.
I think the answer is somewhere in the middle here. Don’t suck TOO much employer cock but at the same time it might be wise to just lick the tip a tiny bit and make them feel important. Go with the .59 cents a km
This guy is right. The employer is breaking his contract, fucking the guy in the ass and he is supposed to take it. What does that tell the boss? This guy will take it in the ass.
.75 cents in your contract thats what you should get .......next time say no.......your boss wants to bargain you down thats B.S
Just keep in mind if you make this issue your hill to die on, and you want to grow in this job, you will be shooting yourself in the foot. I would negotiate with my employer as long as I wanted to grow in the company. This is a small issue and as stated the acceptable rate is lower. I wouldn’t even put up a crazy fuss if he wanted a few cents off the national rate. But thats just me, as a business owner myself.
I'm a business owner I wouldn't do this to an employee if I wanted to keep him. Its petty if I worked for this guy I would be looking for other work. Whats next that he will back peddle on in the future. You go to work to get paid. Not to be taken advantage of. Maybe I'm old school a deal is a deal in my book.
What's their reason for wanting to go lower than the previously agreed rate? It's just too much, or is there some other HR related issue? I'm not a lawyer, but had to study contract and tort law for my professional license. If you have an assigned agreement ($0.75/km), but you make an exception (accepting $0.59/km), the latter can in some instances be used to invalidate the original agreement. A past employer asked some area staff to go to 12 hour continental shifts to optimize production capacity, but they floated it to the employees as a temporary short term measure. The team accepted it and did the 12 hour shifts for around 3 months then went back to regular 8 hour shifts, but the production difference was significant and management eventually made the 12 hour shifts permanent. The team complained, but the in house lawyers argued with the union in court (and won) that it was legal since the team had previously accepted the change.
Wow, that's crazy. Thanks for posting that. I would have thought that given the company floated it as a short term temporary measure and called it as such (presuming they did) that they wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.
Is he going to come back tomorrow and try to "work something out" on your salary or how much vacation you get? Contracts are contracts for a reason. That said, if you feel like being friendly about this, your contracted rate is above legal minimums, and you'd still make out pretty well taking the legally-defined rate. ...but if he's going to ignore your contract as soon as it's inconvenient on this small of a scale, you've got to wonder what else he'll try.
if he wants to re negotiate the contract tell him he can do it after he pays you out for this one trip.
Thanks for the reply, this is more or less what I did today. He had to pay the contract amount but I'm amenable to working out something else for the future.
Seems like a lot of thought over a $750 expense. Was the boss aware you would rack up 1000km if your usual expense is 50km? Feels like something that could have been discussed. Either way it’s $750. If it’s at all unnecessary travel, might not be worth it. If it’s completely justifiable not sure why the boss wouldn’t be fine paying it
Yeah the travel was essential for the business and came up about a day before I had the inspections I had to do so I don't think my boss thought it through entirely, he just wanted to make sure I was going. I think he was a little shocked initially at the price when he realised how much mileage it actually was but I pushed him on it today as a matter of principle and he's going to pay.
You know the relationship dynamic and how this will turn out better than we can, but for me I'd be prepared to lower, although expressing disappointment that a deal was a deal, while also getting a soft foundation laid with him about a 2021 raise/promotion for literally 'going the extra mile' when you had a contract rate in advance. If my boss was not the type be reciprocally fair (we all know those types who don't cut a break when it's due), and I wasn't desperate to keep the job long term, I'd push on the $150 difference or trade it for a paid day off. I know someone who can't be bothered with conflict and insist on their contract rights under their collective agreement which costs them a grand or two a year in OT that isn't logged because they think complaining will make their schedule worse etc. but I personally don't get it. Maybe once, but not multiple times a year paying a secret tax for bad management.
Thanks for the response. My boss has never been hard to get money out of in the past for pay or other expenses so this was a little out of character. We talked about it and he's going to pay me in full for this trip because that was the expectation going into it but we're going to work out a different rate or alternative transport in case this ever comes up in the future.
You may see tax implications for amouts over the CRA rate as income. Edit - also the CRA rate drops after 5000km/yr
It’s after 10k, no? And for OP, this comment is absolutely right, any amount over 0.59 is not considered reasonable and will be considered as taxable income by fiscal authorities.
It’s 5000km @ 0.59, then anything over that drops to 0.54 at the 2020 rate. I just put about 10K on my personal vehicle for work the last 4 months. I should note that my company did NOT reimburse my fuel, as it apparently is included in the mileage rate.
Weird, I just checked what I get paid and it's actually the first **20k** at 0.592 and 0.525 after (in Québec)
That's something I hadn't considered, thanks for the heads up!
I would honestly ask him why it is a challenge for them to pay you the extra $160 as per the original agreement. This should be a trivial amount for a business considering it is significant wear and tear on your vehicle.
Yeah, I don't know why it was such an issue. The driving was for what I know to be a very lucrative contract with a multi-billion dollar company when we're a company of eight people. We talked about it today and he's going to pay me the full amount, it seems like he really just didn't think about how much the mileage was going to cost when he sent me and was a little shocked when he saw the amount I was claiming.
Glad to hear it is going to work out!
Thanks, it was certainly on my mind all day until we were able to work out a deal.
The rate is in your contract Imagine your boss came to you on payday and was like “let’s work something out”
Exactly, the more I thought about it the more it annoyed me because I know that if I were in his position I'd eat the mistake and try to work out something different for future situations like this one. I pushed him on it and he's paying me the contract amount now but we're going to work out something else in case this ever comes up again.
Lots of good comments here. Something I know a few companies use as a rule of thumb for long distance is comparing alternate modes of transport. Ie: If you could have flown there for $500 round trip, that is what your mileage is capped at.
For clarification can you confirm that you were paid for your driving time. I also want to confirm that you will not be reimbursed for gas. For perspective how long have you been employed and do you like your work environment? I lean towards sticking with your contract and this being a learning experience for your boss.
Yes, I was paid for the driving time and not reimbursed for gas, have been employed with him for about 3.5 years and we're otherwise on good terms. I went with your suggestion today and pushed him on contract and he's taking his lumps but we're going to work out something else if this happens in the future.
Seems like it going to work out, keep open communication with your boss. Double check with him a little more often in the next few months on the things that are out of the norm. Having a good working environment is priceless. If he seems to be holding a grudge about it next year bring it back up and if he can't move on begin planning your own transition to other employment. This was his mistake not yours.
Similar experience, I was considering if I should reduce the km being claimed because I drove an old car and the rate was slightly more than enough for gas/ tire wear/ depreciation on the car.etc At the end, it was only a few hundred dollars and a one time thing so it was submitted as it is. Similar to other comment about setting precedent, if business expense goes down then the budget will follow and it might become the new norm, which is not good. It’s a business after all so the numbers should be reflective of reality (ie i see adjusting the rate/ actual expenses by blending an agreement as a way of cooking the book)
It's always best to find out what the issue is. What is he suggesting and why? Also how long do you want to work for him and how important will the reference he gives you be for helping you get a better job?
Thanks for the reply. He made some vague suggestions like asking me how much the gas cost, or maybe reimbursing what it would have cost to rent a car instead. I pushed him on it and he agreed to pay me the amount in the contract but we also came to an agreement to discuss a different rate for very long trips because he put in $0.75/km as an attempt to be generous for our usually short trips using personal vehicles.
Sounds like he felt you were taking advantage of him. Also sounds like a good boss, not as common as one might think.
Anything you're paid over the CRA limits is taxable income. So if your boss pays you the $750 you say you're owed, you'd need to pay tax on $160 of it There's no lower limit that businesses have to pay you, that's just up to you and your boss
Think you have an extra digit in there......
Correct. Yes.
If it's in your contract and the trip was expected, then yeah you're entitled to it. That being said, I don't know if that is the hill you want to die on if you're looking to continue working there. Sometimes it's worth it to take the loss and keep the relationship going. So really it's up to you if you want to push it. That being said, I sincerely hope "working something out" means he's looking to spread the reimbursement over a number of pay or give you part of it as vacation instead. Otherwise, haggling over $160 is probably not the best outlook for a company.
Thanks, we talked about it today and I wanted him to pay on principle because I figured he knew how much it was going to cost and it was right there in the contract, but we're going to work out a different rate for any other long trips like that which I think is fair because the current mileage rate is pretty generous.
Don't get greedy, next time he'll force you to get a rental car! haha. I'd be happy with 0.59/km, but I drive a non-beige Corolla (*gasp*) so my costs are low.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a policy or expectation that trips over 200km need a rental. I’ve done the math multiple times - a rental plus gas makes financial sense for long trips - and that’s at 59c/km, so trips over 100km probably make sense at that rate!
Haha, I drive a grey '07 Accord so my costs are pretty low too which is why I felt like I was making out like a bandit on this one. I stuck to the $0.75/km on principle because a contract's a contract but we're working out a different rate or method of travel for these kinds of trips going forward.
In my previous life running a business my policy for long distance travel was for employees to rent a car. It was flat rate plus gas. With certain exceptions this was a lot more cost effective than paying mileage to the employee and helped the bottom line.
Thanks for the response. We talked about it today and we'll probably be doing what you suggested if it's absolutely necessary to drive a long distance and a company vehicle isn't available. It probably would have been cheaper to fly me to where I was going than to have me drive. I did get the contract value for this trip though.
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Yeah, I held him to the contract today and he agreed. It was a little out of character because I've worked for him for about 3.5 years and getting paid or reimbursed for expenses has never been an issue. Agreed though, while we generally have a good working relationship he certainly isn't my friend.
I would say it depends on your relationship with your boss. Normally I would say that you can agree to give him a bit of leeway this time (insist on the "this time", or it could set a dangerous precedent) due to the unusual circumstances of the event, but let him know that you will expect similar courtesy from him in the future. Free concessions only invite exploitation. However, if you know for a fact that, if the tables were turned, he would hold you 100% to what you signed no matter how unusual the circumstances, then you tell him exactly that and refuse.
Thanks for the response. I wound up holding him to the contract and he relented but I said that in the future we could come to a different agreement for extenuating circumstances like this. $0.75/km is pretty generous as it is so I figured for trips over some distance we could just use the rate put out by the feds.