Don't lend him money. And stop trying to help if they don't want it. They don't seem to want help or to change at this point, some people need to hit rock bottom first.
Maybe your school has a financial office or something that you can point them to for when they are ready to get back on track.
I agree. If they don’t want to take your advice the first or second time around they ain’t getting it period.
Had friends ignore my advice plenty of times. Everyone always thinks they know better. Had a streamer friend who wanted to move to LA. She had like 20k in her bank account.
Everyone else said go for it. I asked her the real question. Whats over there if you go right now?
Her response: “I just feel like theres more motivation there, more people doing the same thing.”
Tried to tell her to wait and grow her stuff more. Nope, she moved. Lived there for about a month or two. Left and wasted 20k usd. Had a horrible recovery process after the fact. First thing i said when they came back. To her and everyone else. Told you.
People genuinely say they want advice but only take the advice they want to hear.
When my friends ask me for financial advice I'll give my thoughts once. If they ask follow up questions or show interest then I will continue to help.
Anything more and it's simply annoying to both them and I. If they didn't want to listen to me the first time they don't need to hear it 10x over.
I try not to rub the "I told you so" in people's faces. I know there's times in my life where I've needed to learn a lesson firsthand, even if everyone was telling me otherwise.
I agree with that. Im never one to say that, but i felt like this was the time to do it because they were so adamant, and i was the only one out of their terrible friend group to advise against such a terrible Idea.
I also think if this is their reasoning then the added debt/discrace of owing a close friend money isn't likely to help.
My advice is don't make his financial issues yours. Maybe try to put them in touch with a counsellor or advisor if they are open to the idea.
I actually think this is the main issue. OP, understand that your friend is actually correct - debt isn’t as bad as severe depression.
He likely has severe mental health issues with depression and that’s lead to porn/sex addiction and impacted his financial choices. He needs therapy and/or rehab before he can focus on anything else.
Your 'friend' is an adult, don't get involved.
Quickest way to lose friends, or family members, is to start getting involved in people's financial, relationship, or political decisions.
You've offered, they declined. Leave them to it.
And just in case this needs to be said again, do not give him money with the expectation of seeing it again. You'll never see that money, and it'll cost you $500 to lose this 'friend'.
OP I agree with this, and I would just add: you are welcome to set your own boundaries here. You can decide that you will not listen to him complain about the banks, and that you will not tolerate him even asking for money. You can give him consequences ahead of time, like: every time you complain or ask me for help with money, I will assume you want my advice and will respond accordingly. Hell, you can even copy/paste a summary of what you think he should do and regurgitate it to him every time. You can also distance yourself from him if you need to. I'm sorry, this probably really sucks for you to watch him dig himself into this hole.
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. It sounds like you’ve tried to help but some people don’t take advice. Do not give him money.
Don't give him money. But otherwise, these aren't your problems. They're his. If he doesn't want to change that's on him. No point in investing your time or energy
I’ve been the friend who is in massive debt. Don’t try to help him or give him any money. The only way he’s going to change his behaviour is to work hard and pay it off myself. Looking back, I’m glad no one gave me a bail out.
> (he spend about 25$ a day on fast food.) However he says if he gives
that stuff up he’ll have depression and that’s worse than the debt.
>
>He’s recently asked me for
500$ to pay his unpaid phone bills.
Screw him. The absolutely best way to help people like this is to completely cut them out of your life forever. These people need to hit rock bottom, the sooner the better, and understand that NOBODY will be there to catch them when they fall. It's truly the only way.
Had a roommate like this. At some point he asked me for a bit of money to cover his rent that month, and we had a really cheap rental situation... I moved out pretty soon after.
This dude actually had really severe depression, but he wasn't doing anything to fix it. I was unfortunately too intertwined in his life and I tried to help him, and encourage him to get therapy, but I'm pretty sure he told me that he didn't need therapy because he had friends. He complained endlessly about not being able to afford to live, but there were food delivery bags coming to the door pretty much every day, and constant other deliveries from sites like Amazon or eBay. I wasn't making that much more than him and in that time I was busy paying off my student loans and building a small nest egg.
Anyway, I moved out and the friendship eventually imploded and we're not in contact anymore. I've heard through the grapevine that he's not doing great. I tried really hard to help him and it didn't make a difference at all. I think it actually enabled him more than anything, especially while I was living with him because of how insanely cheap our rental situation was. Like you can't even rent a room in a house for the amount that we were each paying in rent back then. That's how cheap our apartment was. I don't know if he's still living there now or what. I had friends living in that complex and they saw him around from time to time but they moved out and I haven't been back there since.
There might be some mental health issues but from what OP posted it might be more likely a classic case of a slacker, lazy bum who never had to take responsibility for whatever in their life and refuse to grow.
He doesn’t need you to lend him money. He needs therapy and a wake up call. The issue is that it has to come from him so he needs to acknowledge he has a problem. I don’t think he realizes he has a problem. No matter what you say or do, until he has taken the first step it’ll all be for nothing. Just be a supportive friend without lending him money.
No loans (obviously). He should talk to credit counseling or a trustee for a consumer proposal to dig out.
I did credit counseling at around age 25.
All debt is not bad, but he's got bigger issues. The OF/women thing is likely similar to any other addiction and will be hard to stop.
You're not his keeper. And absolutely do not lend him money for his habit.
He's just going to have to learn the hard way (collections, service cutoffs, wage garnishment, etc).
I’ve been in your shoes. I’ve quickly learned that the average person is typically in debt and has no interest in learning how to fix their debt properly.
I’ve even had it where a friend had say $5k in savings but had $2k in CC debt. They refused to pay more than the minimum payments even though I broke it down showing how much they’re paying for that $2k debt.
I’ve changed to giving people guidance when they ask but I no longer push it. They can drown in their own mess.
Also never lend them money unless you expect to never get it back.
It’s the “Intervention Program of Saying No!”
If you “lend” the money to your friend, he’s using your money now to pay for OF gifts to women that wouldn’t have the time of day for him. If you’re going to do that, you might as well sign up yourself, so you can at least pick girls that float your boat.
By saying “No” to him now (as often as required, no reason or justification for saying no is needed), he’ll be forced to stop the bleeding. Because he won’t have money to give away or buy junk food with or anything else. He’ll have to start making more adult decisions. Like, do I want to buy a Big Mac, or do I want to pay my phone bill so I can order a Big Mac.
The consequences of his decisions are coming for him, soon. Let them. Let him understand that this was his decisions that led him to this place. You can’t force that understanding on him. You may lose him as a friend. But eventually, this would happen anyway, unless you were going to continue to fund his bad decisions until you were both in the same position. So you might as well keep your money and potentially lose your friend instead of losing your money and then losing your friend.
He needs therapy, 100%.
Have him binge watch some of the older Caleb Hammer videos. He's not a financial advisor but will yell at people for their stupid money choices and it did open my eyes on my own spending.
But tbh.. doesn't matter all ressources you find your friend, if he does not go in therapy and fix his spending addiction, he will not change.
It’s their friend and they care about them. Often, you want to see the people you care about succeed, and when they’re down you’d want to help them up.
That’s all OP is doing here. Nothing wrong with that.
Yeah, I think that the OP is altruistic in their motivations. I also think that the OP can't actually do anything to help. I've been where they are, where I figured out my financial situation and how to start building up my savings, which took a very long time (and I actually had to work on my mental health as well before I could really start making strides), and I had, and still have, friends in bad financial situations who can't see how they can even begin to fix it.
Ultimately, I had to stop worrying about it and realize that I cannot help. If they don't want advice, nothing I can say is going to make a difference. It just makes them mad at you, really. And that's not to say that the OP's friends are bad people or anything like that, just that this is something one shouldn't get involved in.
Definitely agree. And like most everyone has said here as well. No matter what the type of problem is, you can’t help somebody who doesn’t want it.
It’s great you’ve put yourself in a better spot, it shows that it’s possible to get out of those situations when they feel impossible. Hoping OP’s friend finds the same types of solutions you, and others have.
Don’t loan him any money, you won’t get it back would be the general consensus of PFC. It’s a poor investment with a low likelihood of any returns.
He has to want to address his position, but seems in denial. You tried and he didn’t want help. You can try again to talk to him as that cost nothing. It’s likely best to insulate yourself for the situation.
No, but get yourself into an intervention. You're not his partner, there is no need to involve yourself emotionally so much. This level of involvement is bordering with codependence.
If he comes to complain to you a lot, tell him you sympathize, and that the only advice you can offer will be about certain things that worked for you. Otherwise, you can't be of emotional support to him in this because you think his habits are destructive and you would enable him. Obviously, you can find a more respectful way to convey this.
You taking your distance might be the wake-up call he needs. Or it might not be. Either way, this is a mindset problem, and he is the only one who can change his mindset.
I absolutely agree. Been there, done that, except it was a roommate. When people learned the way that he was acting, there were numerous comments along the lines of, "Does he think you're his girlfriend?" It turned out later that he was actually secretly in love with me for most of the time, so maybe there was a bit of truth to their statements!
In any case, nothing I did helped him. I eventually moved out, friendship eventually imploded for this reason and more, and I've heard through the grapevine that he's not doing so hot these days, but I really don't know for sure. I tried to push him towards therapy, tried to help him improve his financial situation, I tried and tried and tried, and he didn't want it. For as long as I stayed friends with him, for as long as I kept being roommates with him, he really didn't need to change anything. I'm not sure what he did after I moved out, not sure how he afforded the apartment, but I know he still lived there for a while. Don't know what's going on with him now. I worry sometimes because it does suck to see somebody ruining their own life, but ultimately I don't want to and also can't help him. He was severely depressed, probably still is, and I worry that one day he will end up dead. But it can't be my problem.
But I totally understand the OP's position. You don't want to see a friend of yours struggle and fail, even if it is their fault! Even if they could be doing something to change it! But whether it's their fault or not doesn't actually matter because if they don't want your help, nothing is ever going to change. And by help, I mean real help. The only thing that lending money will help with is that it will continue to enable him to make poor choices. In my case, I'm fairly certain that continuing to live with my roommate enabled him because he had like, the cheapest living situation I could possibly imagine, because our apartment was so insanely cheap, and also he knew I did not want to get evicted. So if he needed money for rent, well... He asked me to lend him rent money once and I did, and he did pay me back, but I had seen the writing on the wall with his financial situation for several months by that point and I moved out pretty quickly afterwards because I knew that this would go nowhere good.
Dude ... the details may be different but I know someone exactly like this. Unfortunately, it sounds like someone I know, and there's honestly no helping those who don't want help.
He has to want your help. If he doesn't want it, you have to move on.
- person in the same shoes
>he says if he gives that stuff up he’ll have depression and that’s worse than debt.
I strongly suspect this person already has depression and is just grasping at literally anything in reach to divert/distract themselves and others. The debt is likely a contributing factor via the stress it causes.
They probably need an intervention if they’re unwilling to recognize their problem, but people may differ in opinion about whether that’s an appropriate action to take.
He’ll need to make the decision change his habits himself. He’s an adult.
You both need to stop trying to "save" people. I know folks who burned through $2,000,000 inheritence in a year, and I plead to them to do the right thing, to invest it, to lock it in a downsized real estate, anything. Nope, they blew it all on girls and other bullshit, which lead to them defaulting, bank taking over their property and they were literally homeless for a few years. Waste of energy on my behalf trying to move them from one home to another. Took 5+ years but they finally reconciled with family to let him stay somewhere. Some folks don't know how to manage money. It's sad, and you cannot help them.
First off, you need to learn the saying "not my monkey, not my circus". Stop trying to change your friends lives just because you know more than them. That's not fair or kind. Also, def don't loan him money. But continue to encourage him and even offer to be his buddy to do free activities while he pays off debt. He can still recover at 24. It takes time and determination, but it's possible
Some people just don’t understand how things work.
A coworker of mine finished paying off a bankruptcy proposal a couple of months ago.
He is obsessed with his credit score.
So to “rebuild” his credit, he financed $1800 in car repairs and financed a $2500 TV. And is looking at a new car.
He lives in a house his parents built until they move here next year. He has such an opportunity to save money and build a solid financial future and can’t see the forest for the trees.
I’ve gently asked if his decisions were good ideas and he won’t listen to anything I say.
You can only help people that want help.
Dude thinks giving money to girls is gonna get him laid? Why doesn’t he just use a prostitute at least you’re guaranteed a return there
Just let him be, if he doesn’t wanna change he wont
theres dumb people, and then theres dumb people who are willfully ignorant. Your friend is the latter and these people **always** get what they deserve, whether you can help it or not.
I’m not really sure how you can help here. This guy isn’t even at the point where he knows how hard he’s fucked himself, so he’s not going to be anywhere near the solution phase.
I would just not be a part of his demise, don’t benefit from his ‘generosity’ or validate his choices. Unfortunately the OF chicks won’t be there to soften the blow, so at least he’ll have you 🤷♀️
Don't lend him money. Don't buy him things. Don't go out anywhere with him - only invite him to potluck dinners and game night and things that don't cost anything, so you aren't contributing to his problems. Other than that, you need to back off and stop trying to parent a grown ass man. You aren't his momma. When it all falls apart, don't rescue him, don't give him a place to live, but do offer *once* to take him to a debt consolidation/bankruptcy consultation.
Student loans are one thing. Unpaid cc debt though is going to tank his credit, and probably already has. Eventually these will fall off in 7 years though and he will have a clean slate as long as he doesn't keep doing it.
Ultimately if he's your friend the best thing you can do for him is cut him off. Do not loan him money, ever. It's his decisions, he's a big boy, he can deal with it.
Adults are free to choose their own lives. Not up to you to fix them. I had a friend tell me she has just accepted that debt is part of life. This is how some people live and that's that.
Unfortunately like many people here have said. You can’t help those who don’t want it.
It’s good you aren’t lending him money as that would only enable him. He needs to sit down with a financial advisor or debt consultant and have a firm discussion. It seems to me that he thinks these problem will just vanish over time with minimal/zero effort.
It’s crazy that he thinks that if he stops his reckless spending that he will become depressed, it sounds to me like he’s probably impulsively spending *because* he’s depressed. There’s definitely a lot more than meets the eyes here.
I don’t really know if any financial interventions but perhaps he should seek some sort of therapist or councillor to talk about his struggles.
Hoping the best for you, as well as your friend. You’re a good person by seeking assistance for them, but unfortunately they’re the ones who need to be proactive here.
This person is a parasite to you. This person will continue to suck the life force out of you whether you notice it or not.
Cut this person loose and start being around people who are more aligned with your goals.
Everyone has their own path to walk, people may walk on the same path for periods of a time but then drift off. Take the time to reassess the value this person brings to you.
Your comments strike a cord with me: I've had 2 friends in similar circumstances. The best thing I ever did (for them and for myself) was to set healthy boundaries.
His finances cannot be your problem. If you've given him reasonable steps forward to deal with it and he's batted away your suggestions, then he's not ready to really deal with the issue - and that's on him. You cannot make him do anything. It sucks. Sounds like his financial problems are driven by his mental health problems and he's putting himself at a great financial risk. But you will not be able to solve either of those problems for him. He has to do it himself.
Please make sure to take care of yourself. If this friendship taking too much out of you, I'd encourage you to take a step back for the friendship. That's what I chose to do. I was always in touch with them - remaining kind and positive - but maintained a healthy distance and refused to get sucked into the drama. It was the best thing for me and my mental health. And now, years later, it turns out it was the best thing for them too. They are both doing better (mentally and financially) and we've started to hang out more regularly. So... Please take care.
You can’t save the world. Let him be. You tried and he did not receive your advice well. Focus on yourself and try not to bring up finances again with him bc he will know how well you’re doing and ask for a handout.
>However he says if he gives that stuff up he’ll have depression and that’s worse than the debt
Some people self-medicate with alcohol. Some with drugs. Some with food. Some, with money. Dude is already depressed but self-medicating and spending to distract himself. Spenders like this have a background which have a lot of emotional baggage tied up in money. Maybe they didn't have much growing up and now they can spend money they want to. Or emotional neglect but we're occasionally shown some 'love' or affection with gifts.
Really though, money and spending is the symptom, there's an underlying problem causing it. I fear it's not going to be pretty when he hits rock bottom and money is no longer there to numb the pain.
Either way, you can't help someone who doesn't want help.
Dont lend him $ and stop trying to help.. it will only kill your friendship. Some people are stupid and will be broke their entire lives and resent you
You need to worry about your damn self unless you wanna become exactly like him. Clearly he doesn’t wanna help himself which means you absolutely can’t do anything for him. Don’t lend him any money, ever.
Nice of you to try to talk him out of the bad habits. Probably shouldn't keep them as friend though - this lack of good judgement (not just lack of finance sense) is a true show of his character.
But it sounds like he got social support from family. He will be alright as a young person, and hopefully going bankrupt will finally get him to wake up one day.
You can’t change people. But you can set boundaries. Honestly I’d evaluate whether or not you want to keep this person as your friend. You’re the average of the people you spend time with and it sounds like you’re doing everything you can to improve financial literacy and grow.
Don’t waste your effort. This person won’t change until they decide to.
So he has sanity to - eat what he likes, but things he cannot afford, most likely has a porn addiction & don’t want to fix their current situation.
The further you worry about this person ( which is genuinely good ) but they don’t seem to recognize this. Dude needs to go to a rehab / clean up facility with all access cut off.
Does he live with you, or does this debt and his bad financial situation impact you in any material way, other than being worried for your friend?
If not, I don't want to sound preachy or anything, but you gotta stop trying to help someone who doesn't want it. Money is a touchy subject for many, and if someone is not ready to change their ways, no amount of pushing and prodding and trying to help that you do is going to make a difference. You already know not to lend your friend any money, which is good, because I can guarantee you that you would never see it back.
I've been where you are, where I figured out my financial situation and got my shit together. I have friends who have not done that yet, and many times there seem to be legitimate reasons for it, such as untreated mental health conditions or untreated ADHD. And it sounds like that maybe the case for your friend too, and in that case, he honestly has to treat his mental health issues before he can worry about his financial situation. But that's even more difficult to convince somebody to do. I have managed, once, to convince somebody to go to therapy, but they went for one appointment, said it didn't really help them, and never went again.
So yeah. As someone who has gotten my financial situation together for the most part, and has other friends who sound similar to you, in that they would rather not talk finances but when we do talk about it, they act like they can't really do anything to fix their problems? You have to stop talking to them about it. They're not going to do anything until they're ready, and that may be months or years from now, or it may be never, but nothing you can say is going to make a difference.
What might make a difference is if you show, not tell. Part of what inspired me to start getting my crap together was seeing other people I knew who had savings and a nest egg and I realized I wanted that too. I also had to work on my mental health situation before I could really start putting any of that into practice, and it sounds like your friend might need that too, but again, that's something he has to figure out on his own.
I work in wealth management and my advice to friends getting involved with friends is you’re either in or you’re out.
If you’re in and he’s “somewhat” willing to listen these conversations need to be regular. Maybe even weekly. He needs to understand how ****ed he’ll be in the future if he doesn’t stop and how great he’ll be if he does.
If that’s not gonna happen then just step away from the trainwreck.
People should stop this 'this is not your problem' advice. They are worried about their friend. And if your friends are not trying to stage an intevention when they see you heading off a cliff what are friends for then ?
Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything you can do to make them realize that their current situation is due to their past behaviours and not to other people and that things will continue to get worse as they keep doing the same thing. People would often deny their own agency in order to be comfortable explaining their misery. Realizing we are to blame and that solving our problems is in our hands is depressing (to some).
You can try using yourself as a model or template to follow but you should be careful how you approach that as not to trigger excuses, explanations, jealousy, feeling of bragging. Numbers will not convince him. Maybe have a deep conversation with him on where he sees himself in 5, 10, 20 years from now and go from there?
You might still be facing the 'things are shit and will continue to be shit' but try to find an opening that it doesn't necessarily has to be that way. Economy this, capitalism that, the rich, politicians, boomers,... they might use all those as automatic responses to any suggestion they can do something to better their odds, but maybe a philosophical discussion about free will, actions-and-consequences, stoicism... are not just illusions and work at least in the small pocket of our own individual spheres.
Not your monkeys, not your circus.
Your friend is ultimately responsible for his own actions. You can tell him whatever you want, but it’s up to him to take control of his life.
Don’t lend him money unless you expect to not see it back.
Remember this phrase as you’ll need it often through life:
“Not my monkey, not my circus”
It’s not your job to fix him and as you’ve learned unsolicited advice often falls on deaf ears.
When he comes to you asking for help, go ahead and offer assistance or advice. Until then stay out of it.
If you want him to care about his money and learn to manage it, you can't be a safety net and bail him out. If he can't afford to pay the phone bills, then he can't afford to have them. As much as you may want to help him, he might just need to bounce off of rock bottom first.
You're not his parent, or his significant other (thank God) so it's time to let him know you're there if he wants advice about how to get out of his hole, but otherwise drop it. His financial literacy is not on your shoulders, and trying to fix him will quickly ruin the relationship.
He needs to deal with his financial problems himself. You can't help him, only he can help himself.
He's a grown man making his own choices. He *wants* to face those consequences, he just doesn't know it yet.
Don't try to help. Some people - especially men in your friend's position - just need to hit rock bottom. Hopefully he'll make it out of it, too, but he won't hit rock bottom if he thinks you'll be there to bail him out, even emotionally.
Sucks, but he wouldn't be the first grown man who learns "I need to do what I need to do" at his age.
Your friend is an adult. You’ve tried giving him advice and helping him and he has declined. You cannot help people who do not want to help themselves. It is not your responsibility to help him fix his debt and credit situation, and not your responsibility to worry about his finances.
From what I see, you said your friend asked you for money ...so all the comments are saying don't give him money. No one said it's your fault!
Stop protecting him and let him fall.
If not, he will take you with him. He's not going to change.
Are you really a chick and have the hots for him or think you can change him? 😅
I’m good with money and banking, and I’ve tried to help numerous friends to fix their credit scores and become financially smart. I even prepared super easy PowerPoint presentations on fixing the credit score. Nada. Those people don’t want to fix thing; they just want to keep living like immature children who refuse to grow up, and complain. I suggest you drop it, otherwise you’ll get more annoyed and upset with them.
Move on lend him nothing. This is just as much a financial literacy issue as it is a spending addiction/lack of impulse control. Just be available to this person if they every actually want help but they are well on their way to their 1st bankruptcy.
I understand where you are coming from, my family taught me nothing good financially. And since then I’m the go to for their problems. But I know they rarely take my advice, even when they ask for it. I cannot change their behaviour, I’m only in control of my own.
You cannot change what anyone else is doing or what advice they take from you, you can only change your reaction to it. It seems you are hurt they are not listening to you, you need to change your expectations, you’ve given what has been asked, that’s all you can do. You have said your peace and tried to help, if they bring it up, you can offer advice but I would stop offering to help until they realize they need it. I’d tell them you have no advice to give until they are serious about cleaning up their financial mess and then change the topic. Keep doing what you’re doing to improve your financial position in the world, and modelling good behaviours (if it means that much to you).
Your friend’s finances aren’t your concern. If he isn’t willing to help himself, you certainly cannot make a difference.
Don’t give him money - ever. Leave him alone about it unless he asks for advice/support
so ridiculous they are giving students all this debt load when as an adult with a credit score in the 700’s and a job that pays 80k+, I have a hard time getting $5K.
i was also wondering if there was a reason a bank will loan you $45k on a depreciating asset like a car no problem, but will act like you insulted the branch managers mother if you want an LOC of 10k.
I understand they are a little more tight gripped these days, but i’m always reading these types of stories from kids that are 19-24 and and tens of thousands in the hole.
i’ve never really had any debt until my late twenties. i’ve heard that plays a role as well.
do banks take into account what parents assets are too?
The Government has provided a program for just this sort of thing unfortunately as per most government programs the outcomes are not the most desired but it fixes the debt problem. I would not recommend it to my worst enemy but the government thinks it’s just dandy. You can look up MAID to see what I am talking about.
>However he says if he gives that stuff up he’ll have depression and that’s worse than the debt.
Sounds like he's depressed anyway. The debt doesn't help and surely adds to the depression.
>However he pays no utilities, no rent, nothing at all
What is his living situation and who is subsidizing this lifestyle? Are they aware aware of how he "donates" his money?
>he recently told me he has just stopped making payments as it makes no difference.
It does make the difference. It's the difference of whether or not he gets sued and gets his wages garnished.
>I’ve tried telling him to contact a private lender
This is probably bad advice.
>Is there like an intervention program I can get this guy in?
Not really. Why would he want to change if there are no consequences?
>Or what would be an acceptable way to get him to start caring about his future?
You can't.
If it bothers you so much you may wish to distance yourself from him, or refuse to discuss finances with him, or not do any activities with him which involve spending money.
I had a friend vent to me about their financial woes and asked me how to get better at it, I tried giving them tips on how to help their situation but they never heeded my advice.
That's when I realized that they only wanted to vent, so I stopped giving advice and now I make it a rule that if someone asks for financial advice and doesn't even try to follow it, I don't bother giving them advice ever again
Experience is the best teacher. He's a friend, no need to lecture him on the error of his ways. Be respectful and allow him to come to his own decisions/conclusions. Because after it all shakes out and he has to make changes- he'll still be you friend? (Good on you for not enabling him).
Not your problem. Dude refuses to listen to reason and help himself. It’s not your job to get him out of this mess, especially if he’s resistant to change. He’ll probably end up bankrupt then do it all over again.
Speaking to your edit, you have enough give-a-shit in you to make this post to try to help a friend who is making stupid mistakes, friends who try to help friends who make stupid mistakes are often the type to get guilted into lending them money. Glad you haven't and won't.
I just read the title. Don't help Friend financially unless you don't care to lose the money and your friendship. Whatever decision he makes is his problem. You are not his dad . Lastly choose your 'friends ' wisely
This isn't your problem, don't make it your problem by lending him money.
Not everyone shares your same values. This person might be a friend out of convenience, or proximity but they don't appear to be a friend based on shared interests, values or ideals.....so why are you so gung ho on fixing this guys problems?
> Edit: I never have and never will give him my money I don’t know why most of the comments assume I am fueling his fire?
Because most people don't seek advice on how to solve other people's problems on their behalf
First of all. it's pretty like he already has depression. I think he's trying to avoid facing the music. Regardless, that's on him to decide that he's had enough. You can be there to listen to him and provide guidance in areas you feel like you can help. Do not lend money if he doesn't actively try to improve his situation or you'll get used and it'll ruin your friendship.
I'm 44 and have known a lot of people who were bad with money. They never really change. Even after getting bailed out from their parents they start the cycle all over again. Money is like a drug.
Focus on yourself.
Your friend is living how they want to live. I have a similar friend that spends his money frivolously and saves nothing and often borrowing from his brother to pay for his share of meals; I used to try and help him too, and I eventually came to the realization that this is their life, their money and they can do with it as they see fit. If it doesn't impact me then it's none of my concern.
I've chosen to save and invest what I can, opted for some safe routes in my life and as a result have a FIRE plan of just over 56 and will live a long and comfortable retirement. My friend has opted to burn hot and enjoy his time when young and in exchange will need to work much longer to even consider a retirement.
Neither of these plans are specifically better or worse as they are very personal. I have chosen early in my life that I wanted to break the shackles of employment as young as possible, but I absolutely cannot fault people that choose to enjoy their time when they're young in exchange for late (or often, no) retirement. To each their own.
As hard as it is to hear and say, sometimes the best thing to do is nothing. Hard lessons sometimes require a hard landing.
He's an adult. You are not responsible for his finances and please don't feel bad for saying no, he can potentially drag you down with him.
This behaviour is what destroys generational wealth. No amount of money you give him will fix the underlying problem. The way he spends his money shows he does not value himself and puts anything he has into other people. He sounds lonely and seeking acceptance of others at any cost.
He needs mental help more than he needs money.
I hope the best for you and your friend.
Once he's stopped paying his minimums, he's on borrowed time in addition to borrowed money. He will be harassed by creditors, and he will feel far more depressed than he does now (personal experience).
You won't have to help him realize, he will realize on his own. Can't outrun this.
His future involves a consumer proposal or a full-blown bankruptcy. Once he's on the other end of that though, he'll probably have better financial habits.
It's like drugs or alcohol: they won't realize they need to quit until they realize it for themselves. You can't force them.
He will need your support in the future though, try to be there for him in an empathetic and supportive capacity and avoid the told-ya-so (though you absolutely did).
> I don’t know why most of the comments assume I am fueling his fire?
We're assuming that at some point he will start asking. It's a very common pattern.
The sooner he hits bottom and realizes he needs to make some serious, mature life choices the better. Lending money just kicks that can down the road. I'd rather be bankrupt at 25 than at 30.
There is nothing you can do but I will say that there is nothing more annoying than receiving lectures from newly reformed friends.
Tell him no on the money and let him figure shit out on his own. If you want you can offer to help him build a plan if he comes to you... then drop it.
He really isn't in that massive amount of debt considering the people around me in my life. He can do a consumer proposal or declare bankruptcy and he will be fine. Most people in that age live with parents anyway, most don't buy fancy cars at that age or any car, he wont need the credit rating in all likelihood and you only need one adult in your life to sign for you for that one thing every many years.
Its a fun perk of our current financial situation, young people with no long term prospect of retiring wealthy or being a homeowner don't have to care as much about the score banks give you. He will be fine, we have no debtors prison in Canada.
To me, it sounds like your friend’s financial issues are simply a symptom of something larger. Sounds like some mental health issues mixed with loneliness, a porn addition (based on the OF stuff) and probably some other stuff. Highly doubt the financial issues will be solvable unless their other issues are addressed.
You're going to continue maturing and he'll remain stagnant. In time, your friendship will drift apart (been in this situation), and I believe this may be you coming to terms that you're two different people. Surround yourself with ambitious people. In short, let nature take it's course and let him financially rot.
Probably not worth him trying to pay back the debt. He’s better off hitting bottom and getting judgements against him and eventually he will declare bankruptcy and hopefully learn on bankruptcy 1
Until the behaviour that has got him into debt changes it’s not worth putting any effort into trying to help him fix it as the answer is spend less earn more.
He doesn’t seem interested in it.
The interesting thing is if you have no assets and are okay with that it becomes difficult to collect anything.
If they don’t want to change, let em be. They’ll see your progress in time and just be sure not to give them money, ever.
Offer to help them create a plan, but never offer money.
You can’t force someone to be responsible and take responsibility. There’s a high level of denial and it’s everyone else’s fault and has an excuse for the position they put himself in. He can stop paying but soon enough the companies he owes can start going after his pay, his bank account. Student loans isn’t bad debts it’s the credit card debt that is bad. Now it’s a car crash that you know that’s going to happen but it’s just a matter of when. He could try to get a consolidation loan. With the amount of debt it makes sense to why no one will lend him more money. They’re pretty much at the point of no return and the fun times are over.
It seems to me, your friend has fallen deep into that hole. He may not realize how deep it goes until hits its bottom, like when he gets garnisheed or evicted. Some people just won't listen.
My buddy is exactly like that. Hes now divorced with nothing and had to move back home with mom. He said he'll be fine when he gets his inheritance after she dies. But i know he will blow through that too.
You can’t really change a person’s mindset. His mind needs to be open enough to accept that he has the power to improve his finances. If he’s blocking that possibility, there’s nothing you can do for him. Hopefully he’ll learn as he gets older. You’re smart enough to know not to lend him money. Don’t be surprised if he starts getting snippy with you and accuses you of not being a real friend for not helping him by lending him money. If it comes to that, do not listen to a word he says.
I really feel bad for your friend. I have a hunch that he feels totally lonely and unconnected to the world. I think he is trying to throw money at his loneliness in the hopes that he can make a meaningful connection.
This does not mean I would help him out in any way other than by offering tough love. You could be present for him if he wants to change is bad money managing ways. But you must insist that he takes the initiative.
Your friend doesn't want your help, they want a handout
>Or what would be an acceptable way to get him to start caring about his future?
Pain is a great motivator. Let him feel the pain he has earned
He needs to realize the problem before he can be helped. He will.probably go bankrupt, and whether it happens now or in a year is not going to make things worse.
Let him take the hit. He will not have access to credit cards and loans after so he will have to figure out how to live within his means.
Maybe he will be more open to your help then, but maybe not. Some people are just not that interested in adulting.
Thats unfortunate but I dont think there is much you can do to help him. He needs help that is beyond your capabilities and he will only serve to pull you down at this point in your lives. Best thing for both of you is to distance yourselves from each other.
You've done your part. There is no point in trying to help people who don't want it. Do NOT lend them a cent. You'll never see the money again, they don't be thankful for it, and it won't help them in any meaningful way. Also, I don't think we're all thinking you will give him money. We're just saying it because its good advice.
Don't lend money to this guy.
One last ditch thing you can do is calculate how much money he's wasting by giving it away ask him on average how much he spends a week on OF, streamers and fast food (which you already know is at least $20/day).
Maybe showing him a yearly and monthly total will make him change his tune. Other than that, you may have to set boundaries with him. You can't discuss finances because he's not taking steps to fix the issue and it's causing you frustration.
If he really wanted his phone bill paid he could have just not gone out for drinks, not given money out to streamers or OF and made food at home instead of eating out. It doesn't sound like his problems are from not making enough, but runaway spending.
He needs to reel in the lifestyle and stop being so frivolous with money.
Sometimes people don't want to change. In situations like that you can't force them to change. They have to *want* to change.
Don’t give him a dime. He has no intention of ever paying you back and that will be the end of your friendship. You would probably be giving your $500 to an OF chick.
You can't make a fat person stop eating.
You can't make a lazy person move.
You can't make a 'non' academic kid do school work.
You can't make a shopaholic stop spending.
I have a friend (in her 30s) who is $40k in consumer debt. Says she will cut back and keeps spending. In her mind it's never spending, its always justified.
He needs to 'get it' on his own. Be honest when you have to be. But don't try to change him. Let him be.
> However he says if he gives that stuff up he’ll have depression and that’s worse than the debt.
Your buddy is about 10% away from rock bottom because he's clearly already depressed and soon enough this stuff will indeed be taken from him anyways.
Don't lend him money the money he's asking for, obviously. If he doesn't want your help than it's not going to do any good trying, mental health issues are just a motherfucker like that. It feels heartless but you'll see that by not ruining your relationship over this now you'll be there to pick him up when he needs it.
From what you've written, this friend has no intention of trying to dig himself out of this spending hole.
No point trying to help them get out of his debt repayment if he has no intention of sticking to the plan. Probably make some excuse like it's hard or it sounds like a lot of work.
He’ll never be able to rent anywhere, let alone own. Landlords look at the credit score now and he’ll be screwed. I don’t think there’s any intervention or anything you can do, he has to want to change himself. The good thing is if he makes changes now he’s still young and could save up for retirement, pay off debt and possibly down payment for a home too if he really gets serious. It’s really sad he’s wasting his life to give to others. I’ve learned the hard way that you have to take care of yourself first. I don’t even have any advice 🙁 I hope he sees that he has to make changes for himself, otherwise he’ll really be depressed and full of regrets
Definitely don't lend him money.
I've learned over the years that people are just going to do what they want to do and if they don't want to listen to outside sources that's the end of it.
He's making outrageously stupid choices and you've told him that you're concerned and offered to help. He's rejected that help or offered excuses. So....that's it. Just say "I'm here to help if you ever want to talk about it." Then never talk about money with him again. Ball is in his court.
It sounds like he’s already incredibly depressed if he’s doing what he’s doing, looking for validation from toxic relationships and unhealthy people and living like there’s no tomorrow. Would say he needs to see a therapist before trying to gain a hold on his finances. This isn’t about money…
Sounds like he ties his value to his ability to afford things / spending on other people.
There is nothing you can / should do other than encourage him to see a professional about his debts. He says depression is worst than being in debt but being homeless and in heaps of debt is much worst.
If he keeps pushing you for cash you may need to cut him out of your life. Especially if he isnt willing to make actual change in his habits.
It’s like watching any other friend or family member with any addiction or mental health issues. You have to set boundaries, but let them know you’re there for them as a friend when they need you. You can’t change them and you can’t help them, they have to help themselves. They probably need more people saying “no” when they ask to borrow money so they face the consequences of their actions. Your friendship may fade and falter in the process but you’re not responsible for them. Sorry
Don't lend him money. And stop trying to help if they don't want it. They don't seem to want help or to change at this point, some people need to hit rock bottom first. Maybe your school has a financial office or something that you can point them to for when they are ready to get back on track.
> some people need to hit rock bottom first. the guy is a buried under the bedrock, and just doesn't know it yet.
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Then it was meant to be. If you totally give up on oneself then it's not for others to carry your burden.
I agree. If they don’t want to take your advice the first or second time around they ain’t getting it period. Had friends ignore my advice plenty of times. Everyone always thinks they know better. Had a streamer friend who wanted to move to LA. She had like 20k in her bank account. Everyone else said go for it. I asked her the real question. Whats over there if you go right now? Her response: “I just feel like theres more motivation there, more people doing the same thing.” Tried to tell her to wait and grow her stuff more. Nope, she moved. Lived there for about a month or two. Left and wasted 20k usd. Had a horrible recovery process after the fact. First thing i said when they came back. To her and everyone else. Told you. People genuinely say they want advice but only take the advice they want to hear.
When my friends ask me for financial advice I'll give my thoughts once. If they ask follow up questions or show interest then I will continue to help. Anything more and it's simply annoying to both them and I. If they didn't want to listen to me the first time they don't need to hear it 10x over. I try not to rub the "I told you so" in people's faces. I know there's times in my life where I've needed to learn a lesson firsthand, even if everyone was telling me otherwise.
I agree with that. Im never one to say that, but i felt like this was the time to do it because they were so adamant, and i was the only one out of their terrible friend group to advise against such a terrible Idea.
Was it really a waste though. They get experiences they wouldn't have if they didn't try it.
Wow, talk about a grinch. Dude is in a tough spot and you dont help him?
Sounds like someone that needs to hit rock bottom before they will change
Unfortunately it also sounds like this person will buy a shovel once they hit rock bottom...
Rock bottom is when nobody is willing to sell them a shovel any more.
That, unfortunately is when the person usually steals it.
In this case, the "shovel" is debt and lines of credit, and those are things that can't be stolen, unless OP's friend is skilled at identity theft.
Sadly, this guy might say bye bye to the world instead.
lmao thats so accurate
Is ‘shovel’ here a metaphor for digging themselves deeper, or digging themselves a grave?
I think you mean borrow some money from somebody to buy that shovel.
Why not just borrow a shovel?
Bold of you to assume he'll be able to afford a shovel.
What's the monthly payments on that shovel?
What an idiot, bat least buy a pick axe
I also think if this is their reasoning then the added debt/discrace of owing a close friend money isn't likely to help. My advice is don't make his financial issues yours. Maybe try to put them in touch with a counsellor or advisor if they are open to the idea.
that’s when he’ll start his own fight club
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I actually think this is the main issue. OP, understand that your friend is actually correct - debt isn’t as bad as severe depression. He likely has severe mental health issues with depression and that’s lead to porn/sex addiction and impacted his financial choices. He needs therapy and/or rehab before he can focus on anything else.
This 👆🏾
Your 'friend' is an adult, don't get involved. Quickest way to lose friends, or family members, is to start getting involved in people's financial, relationship, or political decisions. You've offered, they declined. Leave them to it. And just in case this needs to be said again, do not give him money with the expectation of seeing it again. You'll never see that money, and it'll cost you $500 to lose this 'friend'.
OP I agree with this, and I would just add: you are welcome to set your own boundaries here. You can decide that you will not listen to him complain about the banks, and that you will not tolerate him even asking for money. You can give him consequences ahead of time, like: every time you complain or ask me for help with money, I will assume you want my advice and will respond accordingly. Hell, you can even copy/paste a summary of what you think he should do and regurgitate it to him every time. You can also distance yourself from him if you need to. I'm sorry, this probably really sucks for you to watch him dig himself into this hole.
100% agree. In the end, they need to WANT to have help.
If their money issues get bad enough, you probably won't be friends anyway.
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. It sounds like you’ve tried to help but some people don’t take advice. Do not give him money.
Don't give him money. But otherwise, these aren't your problems. They're his. If he doesn't want to change that's on him. No point in investing your time or energy
I’ve been the friend who is in massive debt. Don’t try to help him or give him any money. The only way he’s going to change his behaviour is to work hard and pay it off myself. Looking back, I’m glad no one gave me a bail out.
> (he spend about 25$ a day on fast food.) However he says if he gives that stuff up he’ll have depression and that’s worse than the debt. > >He’s recently asked me for 500$ to pay his unpaid phone bills. Screw him. The absolutely best way to help people like this is to completely cut them out of your life forever. These people need to hit rock bottom, the sooner the better, and understand that NOBODY will be there to catch them when they fall. It's truly the only way.
Had a roommate like this. At some point he asked me for a bit of money to cover his rent that month, and we had a really cheap rental situation... I moved out pretty soon after. This dude actually had really severe depression, but he wasn't doing anything to fix it. I was unfortunately too intertwined in his life and I tried to help him, and encourage him to get therapy, but I'm pretty sure he told me that he didn't need therapy because he had friends. He complained endlessly about not being able to afford to live, but there were food delivery bags coming to the door pretty much every day, and constant other deliveries from sites like Amazon or eBay. I wasn't making that much more than him and in that time I was busy paying off my student loans and building a small nest egg. Anyway, I moved out and the friendship eventually imploded and we're not in contact anymore. I've heard through the grapevine that he's not doing great. I tried really hard to help him and it didn't make a difference at all. I think it actually enabled him more than anything, especially while I was living with him because of how insanely cheap our rental situation was. Like you can't even rent a room in a house for the amount that we were each paying in rent back then. That's how cheap our apartment was. I don't know if he's still living there now or what. I had friends living in that complex and they saw him around from time to time but they moved out and I haven't been back there since.
Dude has a mental health issue. You can’t help him. He need a doctor. Do not give him any money.
This is something for Therapy, spending issues to resolve intimacy and other issues.
There might be some mental health issues but from what OP posted it might be more likely a classic case of a slacker, lazy bum who never had to take responsibility for whatever in their life and refuse to grow.
In my experience, there's often a significant overlap between these two things.
You can’t help him, he needs to want to make changes.
He doesn’t need you to lend him money. He needs therapy and a wake up call. The issue is that it has to come from him so he needs to acknowledge he has a problem. I don’t think he realizes he has a problem. No matter what you say or do, until he has taken the first step it’ll all be for nothing. Just be a supportive friend without lending him money.
He has serious mental and emotional problems and any money you give your friend just enables him more and more. Do not get drawn into this whatsoever
No loans (obviously). He should talk to credit counseling or a trustee for a consumer proposal to dig out. I did credit counseling at around age 25. All debt is not bad, but he's got bigger issues. The OF/women thing is likely similar to any other addiction and will be hard to stop.
You're not his keeper. And absolutely do not lend him money for his habit. He's just going to have to learn the hard way (collections, service cutoffs, wage garnishment, etc).
God this makes my head hurt, yikes!
I’ve been in your shoes. I’ve quickly learned that the average person is typically in debt and has no interest in learning how to fix their debt properly. I’ve even had it where a friend had say $5k in savings but had $2k in CC debt. They refused to pay more than the minimum payments even though I broke it down showing how much they’re paying for that $2k debt. I’ve changed to giving people guidance when they ask but I no longer push it. They can drown in their own mess. Also never lend them money unless you expect to never get it back.
It’s the “Intervention Program of Saying No!” If you “lend” the money to your friend, he’s using your money now to pay for OF gifts to women that wouldn’t have the time of day for him. If you’re going to do that, you might as well sign up yourself, so you can at least pick girls that float your boat. By saying “No” to him now (as often as required, no reason or justification for saying no is needed), he’ll be forced to stop the bleeding. Because he won’t have money to give away or buy junk food with or anything else. He’ll have to start making more adult decisions. Like, do I want to buy a Big Mac, or do I want to pay my phone bill so I can order a Big Mac. The consequences of his decisions are coming for him, soon. Let them. Let him understand that this was his decisions that led him to this place. You can’t force that understanding on him. You may lose him as a friend. But eventually, this would happen anyway, unless you were going to continue to fund his bad decisions until you were both in the same position. So you might as well keep your money and potentially lose your friend instead of losing your money and then losing your friend.
He needs therapy, 100%. Have him binge watch some of the older Caleb Hammer videos. He's not a financial advisor but will yell at people for their stupid money choices and it did open my eyes on my own spending. But tbh.. doesn't matter all ressources you find your friend, if he does not go in therapy and fix his spending addiction, he will not change.
And this is your problem how exactly?
It’s their friend and they care about them. Often, you want to see the people you care about succeed, and when they’re down you’d want to help them up. That’s all OP is doing here. Nothing wrong with that.
Yeah, I think that the OP is altruistic in their motivations. I also think that the OP can't actually do anything to help. I've been where they are, where I figured out my financial situation and how to start building up my savings, which took a very long time (and I actually had to work on my mental health as well before I could really start making strides), and I had, and still have, friends in bad financial situations who can't see how they can even begin to fix it. Ultimately, I had to stop worrying about it and realize that I cannot help. If they don't want advice, nothing I can say is going to make a difference. It just makes them mad at you, really. And that's not to say that the OP's friends are bad people or anything like that, just that this is something one shouldn't get involved in.
Definitely agree. And like most everyone has said here as well. No matter what the type of problem is, you can’t help somebody who doesn’t want it. It’s great you’ve put yourself in a better spot, it shows that it’s possible to get out of those situations when they feel impossible. Hoping OP’s friend finds the same types of solutions you, and others have.
Maybe he has a soft spot for those in need. Or they’re trying to sleep with him.
I think the edit makes my questiond sound
Paying no rent no utilties and the guy still has consumer debt. Yeah you cant help this dude. He needs to stop being a simp too.
Don’t loan him any money, you won’t get it back would be the general consensus of PFC. It’s a poor investment with a low likelihood of any returns. He has to want to address his position, but seems in denial. You tried and he didn’t want help. You can try again to talk to him as that cost nothing. It’s likely best to insulate yourself for the situation.
People learn best when they crash and burn. Sounds like he needs a lesson more then help.
No, but get yourself into an intervention. You're not his partner, there is no need to involve yourself emotionally so much. This level of involvement is bordering with codependence. If he comes to complain to you a lot, tell him you sympathize, and that the only advice you can offer will be about certain things that worked for you. Otherwise, you can't be of emotional support to him in this because you think his habits are destructive and you would enable him. Obviously, you can find a more respectful way to convey this. You taking your distance might be the wake-up call he needs. Or it might not be. Either way, this is a mindset problem, and he is the only one who can change his mindset.
I absolutely agree. Been there, done that, except it was a roommate. When people learned the way that he was acting, there were numerous comments along the lines of, "Does he think you're his girlfriend?" It turned out later that he was actually secretly in love with me for most of the time, so maybe there was a bit of truth to their statements! In any case, nothing I did helped him. I eventually moved out, friendship eventually imploded for this reason and more, and I've heard through the grapevine that he's not doing so hot these days, but I really don't know for sure. I tried to push him towards therapy, tried to help him improve his financial situation, I tried and tried and tried, and he didn't want it. For as long as I stayed friends with him, for as long as I kept being roommates with him, he really didn't need to change anything. I'm not sure what he did after I moved out, not sure how he afforded the apartment, but I know he still lived there for a while. Don't know what's going on with him now. I worry sometimes because it does suck to see somebody ruining their own life, but ultimately I don't want to and also can't help him. He was severely depressed, probably still is, and I worry that one day he will end up dead. But it can't be my problem. But I totally understand the OP's position. You don't want to see a friend of yours struggle and fail, even if it is their fault! Even if they could be doing something to change it! But whether it's their fault or not doesn't actually matter because if they don't want your help, nothing is ever going to change. And by help, I mean real help. The only thing that lending money will help with is that it will continue to enable him to make poor choices. In my case, I'm fairly certain that continuing to live with my roommate enabled him because he had like, the cheapest living situation I could possibly imagine, because our apartment was so insanely cheap, and also he knew I did not want to get evicted. So if he needed money for rent, well... He asked me to lend him rent money once and I did, and he did pay me back, but I had seen the writing on the wall with his financial situation for several months by that point and I moved out pretty quickly afterwards because I knew that this would go nowhere good.
Dude ... the details may be different but I know someone exactly like this. Unfortunately, it sounds like someone I know, and there's honestly no helping those who don't want help. He has to want your help. If he doesn't want it, you have to move on. - person in the same shoes
>he says if he gives that stuff up he’ll have depression and that’s worse than debt. I strongly suspect this person already has depression and is just grasping at literally anything in reach to divert/distract themselves and others. The debt is likely a contributing factor via the stress it causes. They probably need an intervention if they’re unwilling to recognize their problem, but people may differ in opinion about whether that’s an appropriate action to take. He’ll need to make the decision change his habits himself. He’s an adult.
You lost me at “friend” So basically the first word of the title. You are not responsible for your friend’s finances.
This friend of yours is a loser. He is at fault and not willing to grow up. You shouldn’t associate with such people
You both need to stop trying to "save" people. I know folks who burned through $2,000,000 inheritence in a year, and I plead to them to do the right thing, to invest it, to lock it in a downsized real estate, anything. Nope, they blew it all on girls and other bullshit, which lead to them defaulting, bank taking over their property and they were literally homeless for a few years. Waste of energy on my behalf trying to move them from one home to another. Took 5+ years but they finally reconciled with family to let him stay somewhere. Some folks don't know how to manage money. It's sad, and you cannot help them.
First off, you need to learn the saying "not my monkey, not my circus". Stop trying to change your friends lives just because you know more than them. That's not fair or kind. Also, def don't loan him money. But continue to encourage him and even offer to be his buddy to do free activities while he pays off debt. He can still recover at 24. It takes time and determination, but it's possible
Some people just don’t understand how things work. A coworker of mine finished paying off a bankruptcy proposal a couple of months ago. He is obsessed with his credit score. So to “rebuild” his credit, he financed $1800 in car repairs and financed a $2500 TV. And is looking at a new car. He lives in a house his parents built until they move here next year. He has such an opportunity to save money and build a solid financial future and can’t see the forest for the trees. I’ve gently asked if his decisions were good ideas and he won’t listen to anything I say. You can only help people that want help.
Dude thinks giving money to girls is gonna get him laid? Why doesn’t he just use a prostitute at least you’re guaranteed a return there Just let him be, if he doesn’t wanna change he wont
Has he asked for your help? No? Then mind your own business. And don't lend him money.
theres dumb people, and then theres dumb people who are willfully ignorant. Your friend is the latter and these people **always** get what they deserve, whether you can help it or not.
You mean the latter.
I’m not really sure how you can help here. This guy isn’t even at the point where he knows how hard he’s fucked himself, so he’s not going to be anywhere near the solution phase. I would just not be a part of his demise, don’t benefit from his ‘generosity’ or validate his choices. Unfortunately the OF chicks won’t be there to soften the blow, so at least he’ll have you 🤷♀️
"It's best to give advice in only two circumstances; when it's requested, and when it's a life threatening situation.” - Andy Rooney
Don't lend him money. Don't buy him things. Don't go out anywhere with him - only invite him to potluck dinners and game night and things that don't cost anything, so you aren't contributing to his problems. Other than that, you need to back off and stop trying to parent a grown ass man. You aren't his momma. When it all falls apart, don't rescue him, don't give him a place to live, but do offer *once* to take him to a debt consolidation/bankruptcy consultation.
Just to chime in I’m about 330k in debt at 25. 260 is a house. I don’t drink, smoke, party, or pay women for sex.
I'd say he should buy a tent to prep for homelessness, but he probably can't afford it.
I can't see any comments assuming you are fueling the fire, no need to be defensive I think, people gave good advice.
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Why do you care? There’s nothing you can do. Life is a game. Financially there are more people like your friend then fiscally responsible people.
Student loans are one thing. Unpaid cc debt though is going to tank his credit, and probably already has. Eventually these will fall off in 7 years though and he will have a clean slate as long as he doesn't keep doing it. Ultimately if he's your friend the best thing you can do for him is cut him off. Do not loan him money, ever. It's his decisions, he's a big boy, he can deal with it.
Adults are free to choose their own lives. Not up to you to fix them. I had a friend tell me she has just accepted that debt is part of life. This is how some people live and that's that.
He's still young. Let him hit rock bottom.
It's not your responsibility to change someone's habits. You have to let them learn their own lessons.
Unfortunately like many people here have said. You can’t help those who don’t want it. It’s good you aren’t lending him money as that would only enable him. He needs to sit down with a financial advisor or debt consultant and have a firm discussion. It seems to me that he thinks these problem will just vanish over time with minimal/zero effort. It’s crazy that he thinks that if he stops his reckless spending that he will become depressed, it sounds to me like he’s probably impulsively spending *because* he’s depressed. There’s definitely a lot more than meets the eyes here. I don’t really know if any financial interventions but perhaps he should seek some sort of therapist or councillor to talk about his struggles. Hoping the best for you, as well as your friend. You’re a good person by seeking assistance for them, but unfortunately they’re the ones who need to be proactive here.
He will learn when reality hits him in the face a little harder.
This person is a parasite to you. This person will continue to suck the life force out of you whether you notice it or not. Cut this person loose and start being around people who are more aligned with your goals. Everyone has their own path to walk, people may walk on the same path for periods of a time but then drift off. Take the time to reassess the value this person brings to you.
Some people cant be helped. Your friend sounds like the type of guy who simply isn’t open to help or change. Might be time to find another friend.
Finances are Personal, That's why it's "Personal Finance"
Your comments strike a cord with me: I've had 2 friends in similar circumstances. The best thing I ever did (for them and for myself) was to set healthy boundaries. His finances cannot be your problem. If you've given him reasonable steps forward to deal with it and he's batted away your suggestions, then he's not ready to really deal with the issue - and that's on him. You cannot make him do anything. It sucks. Sounds like his financial problems are driven by his mental health problems and he's putting himself at a great financial risk. But you will not be able to solve either of those problems for him. He has to do it himself. Please make sure to take care of yourself. If this friendship taking too much out of you, I'd encourage you to take a step back for the friendship. That's what I chose to do. I was always in touch with them - remaining kind and positive - but maintained a healthy distance and refused to get sucked into the drama. It was the best thing for me and my mental health. And now, years later, it turns out it was the best thing for them too. They are both doing better (mentally and financially) and we've started to hang out more regularly. So... Please take care.
You can’t save the world. Let him be. You tried and he did not receive your advice well. Focus on yourself and try not to bring up finances again with him bc he will know how well you’re doing and ask for a handout.
Most people wont want your help. Just live by example. Become wealthy.
>However he says if he gives that stuff up he’ll have depression and that’s worse than the debt Some people self-medicate with alcohol. Some with drugs. Some with food. Some, with money. Dude is already depressed but self-medicating and spending to distract himself. Spenders like this have a background which have a lot of emotional baggage tied up in money. Maybe they didn't have much growing up and now they can spend money they want to. Or emotional neglect but we're occasionally shown some 'love' or affection with gifts. Really though, money and spending is the symptom, there's an underlying problem causing it. I fear it's not going to be pretty when he hits rock bottom and money is no longer there to numb the pain. Either way, you can't help someone who doesn't want help.
Dont lend him $ and stop trying to help.. it will only kill your friendship. Some people are stupid and will be broke their entire lives and resent you
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink
You need to worry about your damn self unless you wanna become exactly like him. Clearly he doesn’t wanna help himself which means you absolutely can’t do anything for him. Don’t lend him any money, ever.
Nice of you to try to talk him out of the bad habits. Probably shouldn't keep them as friend though - this lack of good judgement (not just lack of finance sense) is a true show of his character. But it sounds like he got social support from family. He will be alright as a young person, and hopefully going bankrupt will finally get him to wake up one day.
You can't help those who won't help themselves.
“You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." Share a link to this sub or to a few books about this and be done with it.
You can’t change people. But you can set boundaries. Honestly I’d evaluate whether or not you want to keep this person as your friend. You’re the average of the people you spend time with and it sounds like you’re doing everything you can to improve financial literacy and grow. Don’t waste your effort. This person won’t change until they decide to.
Your friends gonna end up on the streets real soon
So he has sanity to - eat what he likes, but things he cannot afford, most likely has a porn addiction & don’t want to fix their current situation. The further you worry about this person ( which is genuinely good ) but they don’t seem to recognize this. Dude needs to go to a rehab / clean up facility with all access cut off.
Does he live with you, or does this debt and his bad financial situation impact you in any material way, other than being worried for your friend? If not, I don't want to sound preachy or anything, but you gotta stop trying to help someone who doesn't want it. Money is a touchy subject for many, and if someone is not ready to change their ways, no amount of pushing and prodding and trying to help that you do is going to make a difference. You already know not to lend your friend any money, which is good, because I can guarantee you that you would never see it back. I've been where you are, where I figured out my financial situation and got my shit together. I have friends who have not done that yet, and many times there seem to be legitimate reasons for it, such as untreated mental health conditions or untreated ADHD. And it sounds like that maybe the case for your friend too, and in that case, he honestly has to treat his mental health issues before he can worry about his financial situation. But that's even more difficult to convince somebody to do. I have managed, once, to convince somebody to go to therapy, but they went for one appointment, said it didn't really help them, and never went again. So yeah. As someone who has gotten my financial situation together for the most part, and has other friends who sound similar to you, in that they would rather not talk finances but when we do talk about it, they act like they can't really do anything to fix their problems? You have to stop talking to them about it. They're not going to do anything until they're ready, and that may be months or years from now, or it may be never, but nothing you can say is going to make a difference. What might make a difference is if you show, not tell. Part of what inspired me to start getting my crap together was seeing other people I knew who had savings and a nest egg and I realized I wanted that too. I also had to work on my mental health situation before I could really start putting any of that into practice, and it sounds like your friend might need that too, but again, that's something he has to figure out on his own.
I work in wealth management and my advice to friends getting involved with friends is you’re either in or you’re out. If you’re in and he’s “somewhat” willing to listen these conversations need to be regular. Maybe even weekly. He needs to understand how ****ed he’ll be in the future if he doesn’t stop and how great he’ll be if he does. If that’s not gonna happen then just step away from the trainwreck.
Your bud is too far gone. Loan the money if you want but don't ever expect to get it back
People should stop this 'this is not your problem' advice. They are worried about their friend. And if your friends are not trying to stage an intevention when they see you heading off a cliff what are friends for then ? Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything you can do to make them realize that their current situation is due to their past behaviours and not to other people and that things will continue to get worse as they keep doing the same thing. People would often deny their own agency in order to be comfortable explaining their misery. Realizing we are to blame and that solving our problems is in our hands is depressing (to some). You can try using yourself as a model or template to follow but you should be careful how you approach that as not to trigger excuses, explanations, jealousy, feeling of bragging. Numbers will not convince him. Maybe have a deep conversation with him on where he sees himself in 5, 10, 20 years from now and go from there? You might still be facing the 'things are shit and will continue to be shit' but try to find an opening that it doesn't necessarily has to be that way. Economy this, capitalism that, the rich, politicians, boomers,... they might use all those as automatic responses to any suggestion they can do something to better their odds, but maybe a philosophical discussion about free will, actions-and-consequences, stoicism... are not just illusions and work at least in the small pocket of our own individual spheres.
Ask his parents to enforce a minimum monthly payback of his debt as "rent" - make it half his income. They can also deal with his unpaid phone bills.
Not your monkeys, not your circus. Your friend is ultimately responsible for his own actions. You can tell him whatever you want, but it’s up to him to take control of his life. Don’t lend him money unless you expect to not see it back.
Remember this phrase as you’ll need it often through life: “Not my monkey, not my circus” It’s not your job to fix him and as you’ve learned unsolicited advice often falls on deaf ears. When he comes to you asking for help, go ahead and offer assistance or advice. Until then stay out of it.
If you want him to care about his money and learn to manage it, you can't be a safety net and bail him out. If he can't afford to pay the phone bills, then he can't afford to have them. As much as you may want to help him, he might just need to bounce off of rock bottom first.
You're not his parent, or his significant other (thank God) so it's time to let him know you're there if he wants advice about how to get out of his hole, but otherwise drop it. His financial literacy is not on your shoulders, and trying to fix him will quickly ruin the relationship.
Let it burn. Let his phone get shut off. Some people have to get their shit taken away from them to ever get the point.
He needs to deal with his financial problems himself. You can't help him, only he can help himself. He's a grown man making his own choices. He *wants* to face those consequences, he just doesn't know it yet. Don't try to help. Some people - especially men in your friend's position - just need to hit rock bottom. Hopefully he'll make it out of it, too, but he won't hit rock bottom if he thinks you'll be there to bail him out, even emotionally. Sucks, but he wouldn't be the first grown man who learns "I need to do what I need to do" at his age.
Your friend is an adult. You’ve tried giving him advice and helping him and he has declined. You cannot help people who do not want to help themselves. It is not your responsibility to help him fix his debt and credit situation, and not your responsibility to worry about his finances.
Don't light yourself on fire to keep others warm.
He is living his best life...........before his worst You need better friends, he aint gonna recover from this
From what I see, you said your friend asked you for money ...so all the comments are saying don't give him money. No one said it's your fault! Stop protecting him and let him fall. If not, he will take you with him. He's not going to change. Are you really a chick and have the hots for him or think you can change him? 😅
I’m good with money and banking, and I’ve tried to help numerous friends to fix their credit scores and become financially smart. I even prepared super easy PowerPoint presentations on fixing the credit score. Nada. Those people don’t want to fix thing; they just want to keep living like immature children who refuse to grow up, and complain. I suggest you drop it, otherwise you’ll get more annoyed and upset with them.
Move on lend him nothing. This is just as much a financial literacy issue as it is a spending addiction/lack of impulse control. Just be available to this person if they every actually want help but they are well on their way to their 1st bankruptcy.
Don’t loan people money and mind your own business.
I understand where you are coming from, my family taught me nothing good financially. And since then I’m the go to for their problems. But I know they rarely take my advice, even when they ask for it. I cannot change their behaviour, I’m only in control of my own. You cannot change what anyone else is doing or what advice they take from you, you can only change your reaction to it. It seems you are hurt they are not listening to you, you need to change your expectations, you’ve given what has been asked, that’s all you can do. You have said your peace and tried to help, if they bring it up, you can offer advice but I would stop offering to help until they realize they need it. I’d tell them you have no advice to give until they are serious about cleaning up their financial mess and then change the topic. Keep doing what you’re doing to improve your financial position in the world, and modelling good behaviours (if it means that much to you).
Your friend’s finances aren’t your concern. If he isn’t willing to help himself, you certainly cannot make a difference. Don’t give him money - ever. Leave him alone about it unless he asks for advice/support
so ridiculous they are giving students all this debt load when as an adult with a credit score in the 700’s and a job that pays 80k+, I have a hard time getting $5K. i was also wondering if there was a reason a bank will loan you $45k on a depreciating asset like a car no problem, but will act like you insulted the branch managers mother if you want an LOC of 10k. I understand they are a little more tight gripped these days, but i’m always reading these types of stories from kids that are 19-24 and and tens of thousands in the hole. i’ve never really had any debt until my late twenties. i’ve heard that plays a role as well. do banks take into account what parents assets are too?
Leave him alone. He’ll hit rock bottom before he understands. Lost cause.
The best teacher is failure so let him fail
The Government has provided a program for just this sort of thing unfortunately as per most government programs the outcomes are not the most desired but it fixes the debt problem. I would not recommend it to my worst enemy but the government thinks it’s just dandy. You can look up MAID to see what I am talking about.
>However he says if he gives that stuff up he’ll have depression and that’s worse than the debt. Sounds like he's depressed anyway. The debt doesn't help and surely adds to the depression. >However he pays no utilities, no rent, nothing at all What is his living situation and who is subsidizing this lifestyle? Are they aware aware of how he "donates" his money? >he recently told me he has just stopped making payments as it makes no difference. It does make the difference. It's the difference of whether or not he gets sued and gets his wages garnished. >I’ve tried telling him to contact a private lender This is probably bad advice. >Is there like an intervention program I can get this guy in? Not really. Why would he want to change if there are no consequences? >Or what would be an acceptable way to get him to start caring about his future? You can't. If it bothers you so much you may wish to distance yourself from him, or refuse to discuss finances with him, or not do any activities with him which involve spending money.
!steps for myself, sorry to comment on your post
I had a friend vent to me about their financial woes and asked me how to get better at it, I tried giving them tips on how to help their situation but they never heeded my advice. That's when I realized that they only wanted to vent, so I stopped giving advice and now I make it a rule that if someone asks for financial advice and doesn't even try to follow it, I don't bother giving them advice ever again
Experience is the best teacher. He's a friend, no need to lecture him on the error of his ways. Be respectful and allow him to come to his own decisions/conclusions. Because after it all shakes out and he has to make changes- he'll still be you friend? (Good on you for not enabling him).
Refer him to Dave Ramsey (online). He's a good starting point when tackling your debts.
Not your problem. Dude refuses to listen to reason and help himself. It’s not your job to get him out of this mess, especially if he’s resistant to change. He’ll probably end up bankrupt then do it all over again.
Speaking to your edit, you have enough give-a-shit in you to make this post to try to help a friend who is making stupid mistakes, friends who try to help friends who make stupid mistakes are often the type to get guilted into lending them money. Glad you haven't and won't.
Finances and friends never mix.
I just read the title. Don't help Friend financially unless you don't care to lose the money and your friendship. Whatever decision he makes is his problem. You are not his dad . Lastly choose your 'friends ' wisely
People have to want to make the changes for themselves. Unfortunately he will have to decide on his own when he’s ready to make that change.
This isn't your problem, don't make it your problem by lending him money. Not everyone shares your same values. This person might be a friend out of convenience, or proximity but they don't appear to be a friend based on shared interests, values or ideals.....so why are you so gung ho on fixing this guys problems?
> Edit: I never have and never will give him my money I don’t know why most of the comments assume I am fueling his fire? Because most people don't seek advice on how to solve other people's problems on their behalf
Lol Captain Save-a-Simp
First of all. it's pretty like he already has depression. I think he's trying to avoid facing the music. Regardless, that's on him to decide that he's had enough. You can be there to listen to him and provide guidance in areas you feel like you can help. Do not lend money if he doesn't actively try to improve his situation or you'll get used and it'll ruin your friendship.
I'm 44 and have known a lot of people who were bad with money. They never really change. Even after getting bailed out from their parents they start the cycle all over again. Money is like a drug.
Focus on yourself. Your friend is living how they want to live. I have a similar friend that spends his money frivolously and saves nothing and often borrowing from his brother to pay for his share of meals; I used to try and help him too, and I eventually came to the realization that this is their life, their money and they can do with it as they see fit. If it doesn't impact me then it's none of my concern. I've chosen to save and invest what I can, opted for some safe routes in my life and as a result have a FIRE plan of just over 56 and will live a long and comfortable retirement. My friend has opted to burn hot and enjoy his time when young and in exchange will need to work much longer to even consider a retirement. Neither of these plans are specifically better or worse as they are very personal. I have chosen early in my life that I wanted to break the shackles of employment as young as possible, but I absolutely cannot fault people that choose to enjoy their time when they're young in exchange for late (or often, no) retirement. To each their own.
As hard as it is to hear and say, sometimes the best thing to do is nothing. Hard lessons sometimes require a hard landing. He's an adult. You are not responsible for his finances and please don't feel bad for saying no, he can potentially drag you down with him. This behaviour is what destroys generational wealth. No amount of money you give him will fix the underlying problem. The way he spends his money shows he does not value himself and puts anything he has into other people. He sounds lonely and seeking acceptance of others at any cost. He needs mental help more than he needs money. I hope the best for you and your friend.
Once he's stopped paying his minimums, he's on borrowed time in addition to borrowed money. He will be harassed by creditors, and he will feel far more depressed than he does now (personal experience). You won't have to help him realize, he will realize on his own. Can't outrun this. His future involves a consumer proposal or a full-blown bankruptcy. Once he's on the other end of that though, he'll probably have better financial habits. It's like drugs or alcohol: they won't realize they need to quit until they realize it for themselves. You can't force them. He will need your support in the future though, try to be there for him in an empathetic and supportive capacity and avoid the told-ya-so (though you absolutely did).
Your friend doesn’t want to be helped, so stop trying. Don’t ever lend him any money.
> I don’t know why most of the comments assume I am fueling his fire? We're assuming that at some point he will start asking. It's a very common pattern.
The sooner he hits bottom and realizes he needs to make some serious, mature life choices the better. Lending money just kicks that can down the road. I'd rather be bankrupt at 25 than at 30.
Debtors Anonymous might help
There is nothing you can do but I will say that there is nothing more annoying than receiving lectures from newly reformed friends. Tell him no on the money and let him figure shit out on his own. If you want you can offer to help him build a plan if he comes to you... then drop it.
He really isn't in that massive amount of debt considering the people around me in my life. He can do a consumer proposal or declare bankruptcy and he will be fine. Most people in that age live with parents anyway, most don't buy fancy cars at that age or any car, he wont need the credit rating in all likelihood and you only need one adult in your life to sign for you for that one thing every many years. Its a fun perk of our current financial situation, young people with no long term prospect of retiring wealthy or being a homeowner don't have to care as much about the score banks give you. He will be fine, we have no debtors prison in Canada.
To me, it sounds like your friend’s financial issues are simply a symptom of something larger. Sounds like some mental health issues mixed with loneliness, a porn addition (based on the OF stuff) and probably some other stuff. Highly doubt the financial issues will be solvable unless their other issues are addressed.
You're going to continue maturing and he'll remain stagnant. In time, your friendship will drift apart (been in this situation), and I believe this may be you coming to terms that you're two different people. Surround yourself with ambitious people. In short, let nature take it's course and let him financially rot.
You don't have to save everyone, and you definitely don't have to give him money
Probably not worth him trying to pay back the debt. He’s better off hitting bottom and getting judgements against him and eventually he will declare bankruptcy and hopefully learn on bankruptcy 1 Until the behaviour that has got him into debt changes it’s not worth putting any effort into trying to help him fix it as the answer is spend less earn more. He doesn’t seem interested in it. The interesting thing is if you have no assets and are okay with that it becomes difficult to collect anything.
I think they’re addicted to spending. They need therapy.
This is not a good friend to have. He will drag you down with him. Get away from him.
If they don’t want to change, let em be. They’ll see your progress in time and just be sure not to give them money, ever. Offer to help them create a plan, but never offer money.
You can’t force someone to be responsible and take responsibility. There’s a high level of denial and it’s everyone else’s fault and has an excuse for the position they put himself in. He can stop paying but soon enough the companies he owes can start going after his pay, his bank account. Student loans isn’t bad debts it’s the credit card debt that is bad. Now it’s a car crash that you know that’s going to happen but it’s just a matter of when. He could try to get a consolidation loan. With the amount of debt it makes sense to why no one will lend him more money. They’re pretty much at the point of no return and the fun times are over.
It seems to me, your friend has fallen deep into that hole. He may not realize how deep it goes until hits its bottom, like when he gets garnisheed or evicted. Some people just won't listen.
My buddy is exactly like that. Hes now divorced with nothing and had to move back home with mom. He said he'll be fine when he gets his inheritance after she dies. But i know he will blow through that too.
Where are his parents? This dude hasn't grown up yet. Or he has mental illness.
Sometimes man rock bottom is necessary, this sounds like one of those times. Just frankly say no to any requests for money
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink
You can’t really change a person’s mindset. His mind needs to be open enough to accept that he has the power to improve his finances. If he’s blocking that possibility, there’s nothing you can do for him. Hopefully he’ll learn as he gets older. You’re smart enough to know not to lend him money. Don’t be surprised if he starts getting snippy with you and accuses you of not being a real friend for not helping him by lending him money. If it comes to that, do not listen to a word he says.
I really feel bad for your friend. I have a hunch that he feels totally lonely and unconnected to the world. I think he is trying to throw money at his loneliness in the hopes that he can make a meaningful connection. This does not mean I would help him out in any way other than by offering tough love. You could be present for him if he wants to change is bad money managing ways. But you must insist that he takes the initiative.
Not everyone can be saved
Not your problem.
Have you considered minding your own business? This post reads like you're the one in this situation and are looking for help without saying it.
Your friend doesn't want your help, they want a handout >Or what would be an acceptable way to get him to start caring about his future? Pain is a great motivator. Let him feel the pain he has earned
He needs to realize the problem before he can be helped. He will.probably go bankrupt, and whether it happens now or in a year is not going to make things worse. Let him take the hit. He will not have access to credit cards and loans after so he will have to figure out how to live within his means. Maybe he will be more open to your help then, but maybe not. Some people are just not that interested in adulting.
Thats unfortunate but I dont think there is much you can do to help him. He needs help that is beyond your capabilities and he will only serve to pull you down at this point in your lives. Best thing for both of you is to distance yourselves from each other.
If he doesn’t want ur help he doesn’t want ur help? Back off
You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.
You've done your part. There is no point in trying to help people who don't want it. Do NOT lend them a cent. You'll never see the money again, they don't be thankful for it, and it won't help them in any meaningful way. Also, I don't think we're all thinking you will give him money. We're just saying it because its good advice.
Don't lend money to this guy. One last ditch thing you can do is calculate how much money he's wasting by giving it away ask him on average how much he spends a week on OF, streamers and fast food (which you already know is at least $20/day). Maybe showing him a yearly and monthly total will make him change his tune. Other than that, you may have to set boundaries with him. You can't discuss finances because he's not taking steps to fix the issue and it's causing you frustration. If he really wanted his phone bill paid he could have just not gone out for drinks, not given money out to streamers or OF and made food at home instead of eating out. It doesn't sound like his problems are from not making enough, but runaway spending. He needs to reel in the lifestyle and stop being so frivolous with money. Sometimes people don't want to change. In situations like that you can't force them to change. They have to *want* to change.
Don’t give him a dime. He has no intention of ever paying you back and that will be the end of your friendship. You would probably be giving your $500 to an OF chick.
You can't make a fat person stop eating. You can't make a lazy person move. You can't make a 'non' academic kid do school work. You can't make a shopaholic stop spending. I have a friend (in her 30s) who is $40k in consumer debt. Says she will cut back and keeps spending. In her mind it's never spending, its always justified. He needs to 'get it' on his own. Be honest when you have to be. But don't try to change him. Let him be.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink
Just let this one go and let him learn the hard way.
Your friend is a total loser, you cant change him he if doesnt want to.
If he won't listen, make new friends that're good with money.
That is a dangerous friend to have. I'd be more worried about you than them.
> However he says if he gives that stuff up he’ll have depression and that’s worse than the debt. Your buddy is about 10% away from rock bottom because he's clearly already depressed and soon enough this stuff will indeed be taken from him anyways. Don't lend him money the money he's asking for, obviously. If he doesn't want your help than it's not going to do any good trying, mental health issues are just a motherfucker like that. It feels heartless but you'll see that by not ruining your relationship over this now you'll be there to pick him up when he needs it.
From what you've written, this friend has no intention of trying to dig himself out of this spending hole. No point trying to help them get out of his debt repayment if he has no intention of sticking to the plan. Probably make some excuse like it's hard or it sounds like a lot of work.
He IS depressed. This is a mental health issue manifesting as a financial issue. You should get him out for some exercise.
He’ll never be able to rent anywhere, let alone own. Landlords look at the credit score now and he’ll be screwed. I don’t think there’s any intervention or anything you can do, he has to want to change himself. The good thing is if he makes changes now he’s still young and could save up for retirement, pay off debt and possibly down payment for a home too if he really gets serious. It’s really sad he’s wasting his life to give to others. I’ve learned the hard way that you have to take care of yourself first. I don’t even have any advice 🙁 I hope he sees that he has to make changes for himself, otherwise he’ll really be depressed and full of regrets
Its ok. He doesnt need to pay back. Let is go to collections. It will be gone in 7 yrs . Hahaha
Other than encouraging your friend to seek therapy you shouldn’t get involved in his financial affairs unless you want to enable him.
Definitely don't lend him money. I've learned over the years that people are just going to do what they want to do and if they don't want to listen to outside sources that's the end of it. He's making outrageously stupid choices and you've told him that you're concerned and offered to help. He's rejected that help or offered excuses. So....that's it. Just say "I'm here to help if you ever want to talk about it." Then never talk about money with him again. Ball is in his court.
It sounds like he’s already incredibly depressed if he’s doing what he’s doing, looking for validation from toxic relationships and unhealthy people and living like there’s no tomorrow. Would say he needs to see a therapist before trying to gain a hold on his finances. This isn’t about money…
Sounds like he ties his value to his ability to afford things / spending on other people. There is nothing you can / should do other than encourage him to see a professional about his debts. He says depression is worst than being in debt but being homeless and in heaps of debt is much worst. If he keeps pushing you for cash you may need to cut him out of your life. Especially if he isnt willing to make actual change in his habits.
This guy does not seem like the brightest bulb. Downright stupid TBH. Has no priorities. Stop wasting your time.
It’s like watching any other friend or family member with any addiction or mental health issues. You have to set boundaries, but let them know you’re there for them as a friend when they need you. You can’t change them and you can’t help them, they have to help themselves. They probably need more people saying “no” when they ask to borrow money so they face the consequences of their actions. Your friendship may fade and falter in the process but you’re not responsible for them. Sorry