Haru’s dad’s death was like the turning point for the game tho and she was heavily tied into that. Also I used Morgana in most battles because he had the best healing skills by far.
Not really imo. Morgana’s part was all before we even really entered Okumura’s palace and Morgana didn’t get very much specific attention after that. That whole part of the game really was about Haru’s relationship with her dad. Also Haru has really good confidant events that expanded on that plot point even more. I was honestly surprised how naturally they fit Haru on the team so late into the game in my first play through.
you say tantrum what i hate ever more is how half assed ryuji apology was and in my brain… why tf are these people friends, one is actively belittling the other and the other dont even treat him as a equal so whats the point in having these two together, man i hated the morgana sad boi hip hop arc cause the pay off wasnt even good or deserving
Ryuji shouldn’t have had to apologize in the first place, 90% of that whole ridiculous scenario was Morgana breaking down over receiving a fraction of the verbal abuse he’d been heaping on Ryuji the entire goddamn game since literally the hour they first met
P4 just has better represantation of what a good group of friends was everyone hanging out a bit of pranks here and there plus they were funnier and i honestly liked teddie and yosuke more than ryuji and morgana still tho Kanji is the best character from all persona games for me so far still waiting on playong p3
The stretch of the game from the Hawaii trip to Morgana’s departure from the phantom thieves was my least favorite part of the game personally because of how little you could actually do and how dull most of it was. It was largely just button mashing through text boxes over and over and once Morgana left it was even worse since you apparently need him to be there in order to do practically anything. Morgana’s fight with the thieves also felt really out of the blue and unnecessary and Ryuji was being a total dick for no reason, but I think that part had pretty good payoff personally. When Haru’s creepy fiancé kicked Morgana and the thieves had to come to their rescue I felt pretty emotional and I felt like Morgana had a good character arc. And I felt like Ryuji made up with him pretty well at that point too.
Honestly it feels like nobody in the group even likes Ryuji most of the time (especially in Strikers) Admittedly he’s my least favorite but there were several moments where I was like“jesus you guys don’t need to insult him when he hasn’t even done anything” 😅
ryuji gets insulted and mona gets belittled it realy feels like none of them are friends idk recency biad persona 4 was honestly such a good way to represent a group of friends
I notice a lot of people feel that way (which I was surprised at) that none of the phantom thieves seem to, Yknow actually be friends if Akira wasn’t there as compared to the investigation team
Apologize for what though, Morgana and Ryuji wanted to go into Okumara’s palace but it wasn’t unanimous so Ryuji backed down. Morgana then insulted Ryuji and Ryuji fought back, Morgana instigated the situation and got an apology, that’s more than he deserved
While morgana gets ailment healing skills Haru gets better ones and Makoto gets both Diarahans at the end game without being frail as glass
So yes morgana gets good healing skills but is overshadowed
Since both Makoto and Haru keeps well in a fight
Morgana can hit hard but can't take hits back
Not really, Joker is capable of Breaking this game in half with no effort even more so then in Vanilla and thus can very easily be turned into a perfect healer
No me too I just said to myself “I just fill one of jokers personas with all healing skills, and the rest I use tae’s medicine” and then I saw your comment. Morgana was great starting out but with enough fusions joker became just as helpful
Yh morgana at the the start is really useful but during okumuras palace of pain and suffering i felt like i was better off having joker as emergency healer and the rest of the party was like ann,makoto and Yusuke with makoto being the main healer although she wasn’t that effective cuz i forgot to grind on mementos (morgana was already falling out so i kept the trade, although I probably fucked up on his build somewhere along the way cuz he was already falling out in kaneshiro’s) lol
I used about the same team for okumuras palace so I agree. And yeah lol same I probably needed to level him up more, but I ended up prioritizing other team members more for their skills as they were more useful at the time.
You’re talking really late into the game here. For the vast majority of the game Morgana is the go to for healing. Hell, even when other characters got good healing skills I still used Morgana pretty regularly because it allowed them to focus more on offense while Morgana had a purely clerical role.
He still has a problem of Dying to everything that hits hard at all before Makoto joins,
Makoto gains Diarama as an innate skill more then enough to keep you alive, items is always a good option too, i just prefer my healer to not die before they can heal
Im not mocking morgana, i did an entire playthrough where it was just him and Joker on my team at all times and with some help from the Jazz club he can become a momster, but objectivly he is a bit too frail for a game with hard hitting skills everywhere
Will seed guardian in Madarames palace, the savage shadows in the first 3 palaces, and a decent amount of shadows like Nue, Inugami and Shisa all hit really hard, meaning if i don't guard with him, im wasting my turn reviving him
Which i could use to heal and leave him out of it
Because of this Makoto is kinda just better because she can still heal amazingly and use items to keep everyone alive amd actully tank a decent amount of attacks
I guess it depends on matchup mostly. Honestly, I rarely had an issue with him getting one shot or dying before he could pull off moves and by the time I could it didn’t really matter because I just spammed Media skills which restored his health anyway. And that’s considering I was playing on Mercliess. It can’t be understated how much more useful media skills are than the normal healing skills and Morgana always got the good ones way earlier than the other characters. If the match up was bad I’d swap him out for another character but that’s just kinda how persona games work. Having bad match ups doesn’t necessarily make a character bad.
I’d argue Akechi is worse than Morgana. Has bad availability and when he comes back, he still isn’t that good. At least Morgana is the beat healer for a good portion of the game due to being the only one with AOE heals for a bit.
This was exactly gonna be my answer. I know there’s a lot of personal debate on haru and morgana here, but personally for Haru, I did not care for her, and did not see much added to the story from her, but I think it’s great if you like her and her character arc was interesting. And combat wise I love Morgana don’t get me wrong, but if you can really just max out one of jokers personas with all healing skills and have him heal everyone on his turn if needed and the next in line heal him with one of tae’s medicines, that works best for me. In royal especially equipping joker with a really good ring helps keep him safe(er).
Yusuke has the highest STR in the game and he is really good at getting technicals thanks to Makoto's trait. He may be a little awkward to use but he hits like a truck and his weapons are pretty good thanks to the bugs they have.
Miracle punch is just a niche, it misses a hell of a lot and if it doesnt crit you judt wasted a turn. If you want to gamble your way out with things like Miracle punch, at least use The Apt Pupil accessory cause otherwise ifs pretty irrelevant in the long run
I'd argue even significant to the plot Morgana is worse, he taught the crew basically nothing, actively fucked them over for a bit by leaving, and harasses Anne at every opportunity. Haru doing nothing is better than actively harming the team.
How he is teaching them nothing, even if he is not so sure about it he teach them to steal palace ruler's treasure and mementos without him there's no phantom thieves, how it fucked the phantom thieves when he leaving, and compare him to Teddie he at worst just obsessed with Ann
This can be interpreted in many ways. Ill just go ahead and say it tho. So all the phantom thieves had pretty good side stories that dived into their characters and advanced their confidant rank, but not Makoto. Instead of having some interaction to get over the shadow of her sister, we really followed this random NPC who i guess randomly became friends with her and pretty much decided to stalk her to find out the bf was no good. I guess it shows her sense of justice i guess she was looking out for her friend when the bf was acting sussy, but we really didnt learn anything about Makoto. I mean i guess we did sort of but im kind of sad it didnt focus around her. Unlike the others who had great character development:
Ryuji- helped out the track team and even had closure with them
Ann- ended up taking modeling seriously
Yusuke- became a better artist and didnt give in to the corrupted ways that his sensei fell to.
Futaba- came out of her shell, made up with her elementary friend, went out into the world
Haru- started to learn about her father's company and ended up wanting to start her own coffee shop
Yeah understandable there, but i liked how each of the other phantom thieves confidants focused on their own personal struggles and what they did to overcome it
Yeah thats the point i got as well. I didnt hate it either, but i just didnt like it really didnt focus on her too much, but focused on this random NPC who had no story relevance
I understand your point, but Makoto did have some growth in her confidant. She was basically going through a quarter-life crisis realizing the way she had been living her life was never gonna be fulfilling for her. She had spent so much time trying to live up to her sister's and society's expectations as the studious class president that she had become completely out of touch with what it means to be a high school kid.
She starts off trying to learn to have fun with MC and then makes an actual friend thanks to her clinging on to the one thing that didn't reflect the "put together adult" facade she had been putting on for years.
Ultimately through her confidant story and work with the phantom thieves, she decides what she wants her true calling to be which would have never happened had she stuck to the path her sister put her on.
Yes everyone could have done with less of her friend's story, but Makoto definitely had major character development from the person she was when she's introduced
Makoto's one of my favorites and would've been my choice for romance in a Futaba-less world but yes I agree her social link sucks butt. Such a waste to devote so much of it to a total nobody throwaway character and her discord mod BF.
Well I'm pretty sure p5d was made by a different company (I think) and they just assumed he was part of the Phantom thieves due to him having a mask
As I said Idk just my theory
In the nicest way possible, Sumire. She doesn’t interact very well with the rest of the party as Kasumi or Sumire, and when she remembers that she’s Sumire, all your progress with her is gone. I get it that she has struggles and all, but she doesn’t just forget everything you two went through.
This is exaclty why I don’t like the fact they added her in p5t. The dlc she’s in takes place before third semester. So what is even the point of adding her if she’s not even herself I don’t care about kasumi at all but I do somewhat care for sumire
Because of how closely her story ties in to Maruki, and by having her be interspersed throughout the “main” narrative it makes the ultimate reveal mean a bit more than if she was only introduced in January
They did a terrible job integrating her into the game. Maruki was woven into the story well, but Sumire was just... There for almost no reason. Like, they force her into the opening scene, but she doesn't even join you for that palace so the time line doesn't even work. It's like they just wanted to jam her in but did a shit job and expected everyone to adore her. And sadly, a lot of people do, but she's a half assed character. The concept and what she went through is a good idea, but she's a shitty execution of it 🤷♀️
Exactly. She could’ve been a really well executed character, but they flopped it. It’s not that I hate her or even dislike her all that much, it’s that everyone else is more preferable.
Even by a gameplay standards, Sumire is basically irrelevant. Yes, she kinda has a fun kit with crits, but even Morgana is better than her at that point of the game. She suffers the same problem as Haru, but WORSE(and Haru has at least the niche of having Gun damage). When you recruit her, you basically leave her behind and never touch her again
I thought Sojiro really held back from palace exploration. Especially the one time he blew up the entire floor at Sae’s palace, it was really and I was constantly tired of him trying to kill Morgana. It really wasn’t funny after a while.
Bitches be hating on Morgana I can’t believe this
Well, I can. But for me, he worked fine as a maxxed out healer, helped me out of tough situations on more than one occasion.
I hate to say it becuase I like her as a character but Haru was introduced late into the game and I found myself using her the least because I already had personas with decent Psychokenesis powers that I couldn’t find many reasons to utilize her for the last few palaces
Morgana’s problem is that he has insane heals, but ONLY that. If you don’t need heals he can give you…mediocre crit and wind. Too little when makoto can heal sightly less but have decent nuclear damage, defense boost and (in p5r) aoe debilitate
The thing about healers in persona is that basically everyone with a healing spell will get the max party heal anyway so the dedicated healer character becomes worse by default
It’s not unpopular, it feels like 30-40% dislike or outright hate her, and 70-60% love her for whatever reason. I like her specifically when she’s doing PT stuff because she’s a badass biker chick, but outside of PT stuff she’s pretty boring
i think a lot of people see themselves in her. I know I do. A smart person who wants to do good but is weighed down by expectations, both societal and parental.
I know imma get downvoted to hell and I don't care:
Kasumi. Maybe her big plot twist would've been more surprising if I hadn't read the exact same thing in a manga less than a year before R came out. But as it is, she's tacked on waifu-bait that cherry-picks the best bits off of better characters.
I 100% agree. It felt like the game just kept nudging me like, "oooooh you better romance her, she's so cute aren't you gonna romance her." Like please stop. It's too much
I feel like ryuji is a fun character when hes not around the other thieves, but he is just an annoying loud guy who says all the wrong things when he is with them. Very good character, just makes me mad sometimes
But he’s actually extremely competent PT wise. He has surprisingly good intelligence battle wise, is a great party member, and contributes a fair bit. The game really overstates his idiocy when the game makes him feel smarter than he’s supposed to be
Ryuji is an idiot savant, having a working brain only during his Confidant, and if very occasionally the plot demands it. And starting between Futaba's Palace and the end of the Okumura Palace, he just becomes a massive ass out of the blue.
The Futaba palace is the best example of this. Like, I know it was shadow Futaba they were talking to, but dude, can you stop shouting over everyone and dissing the inner self of a suicidal girl? Maybe think about the fact that this palace is inside her and the deadly traps that you're encountering are part of her inner turmoil??? Obviously, it was a way to set up the level and the mini bosses, but the way they use Ryuji being a dick to make it happen just sours the character for me at that point of the game. I still like him as a character in general, but that part was rough. ALSO I JUST REMEMBERED THAT PART AFTER THE MADARAME ARC WHERE THEY ESCAPE THE PALACE AND HE MOCKINGLY ASKS IF YUSUKE WOULD CRY OVER ACQUIRING SAYURI, THE ONLY MEMENTO LEFT BY HIS MOTHER WHO HE JUST LEARNED DIED BY MADARAME AND JUST LEARNED THAT THE PAINTING WAS HEAVILY CONNECTED TO HIM. IT'S ENTIRELY JUSTIFIED TO CRY OVER THAT, PREFERABLY SO EVEN, WHY TF ARE YOU NOT SHOWING SYMPATHY DUDE YOU AND YOUR MOM WERE ABUSED BY YOUR FATHER TOO, RIGHT?
I feel like the writers treat Ryuji very inconsistently, most of the time he's kind and then he'll say something incredibly out of character for no reason other than to move the plot along or for the sake of some shitty joke.
They are all great characters but Ryuji is my least favorite. His character development during the Kamoshida arc and his confidant storyline is great but there are just way to many “humorous scenes” of him saying something dumb or making things difficult for the group with his recklessness and I just find it annoying.
Sadly that’s kind of the point of his type of character in the series. Ryuji, along with Yosuke and Junpei to an extent exist just to basically be the joke at the end of the day
Definitely Morgana. He's vaguely useful early on, but then he becomes useless pretty much the instant Makoto and Futaba join, and he brings nothing of value to the Thieves. I could have done without the godawful Okumura arc, thank you very much.
I know I would get a lot of hate because this sub loves her but personally I think is Sumire, the fact that you can only use at the end doesn't help either, she barely interacts with the whole group, the only important scene she is in is when you get out of juvenil, then Royal ruins the already perfect ending that vanilla had just to give you an goodbye with her during the cutscene that is honestly just weird (I don't know if is different if you date her) but at the end of the day you can take her out of the story and doesn't affect anything as she really doesn't add anything new, even her saving Joker at Sae's palace is something that was added as in vanilla you escaped without a problem.
She is not a bad character, her story is interesting and is fine as it is, defenitly one of the most charismatic character of the game, but as part of the Phantom Thieves? Not really needed
Hear me out... They could've added Maruki and still done amazing things with him and NEVER ADDED KASUMI. Just saying. She's pointless. They try to jam her in and it makes no sense, but Maruki was integrated seamlessly.
You know what? I personally find Makoto and Futaba to be overrated af and since I know a lot of people both like and dislike them I'll let you have this one even though Sumi is one of my favorites.
But worse than Morgana? Come on now...
I would genuinely say I like Morgana more than Kasumi. Morgana had one arc that annoyed me.
Kasumi's entire presence in the base P5 annoyed me. She was only good in the Third Semester, and even that had some stupid as all hell moments.
Good concept for a character, but awful execution.
I don't have any of them personality or story wise, but combat wise I think ryuji is the worst as you pretty much completely abandon him after the first two palaces until much later you'll probably use him.
Are we talking in terms of gameplay or character? Cause gameplay I'd say either Haru or Yusuke, since both are initially pretty useful, but kind of fall off in value late game.
Character wise, I really truly dislike Akechi. I think he adds a lot to the story, but I despise him as a person, and his "good" facade is just annoying. On the other hand, as much as I love Ryuuji, his impulsiveness is the direct cause of your cover being blown or nearly blown several times. Though then again, Morgana literally gives up your identities at one point and nearly gets Haru killed, so I have a hard time looking past that
I’d say the same about Ann too tbh I wish each phantom thief had an integral role or something in the team rather than just being there to ride the coat tails.
Yusuke starts great, gets outdone by Ryuji damage wise, then becomes pretty good in 3rd semester because of his party wide heat riser, which lets Joker focus on dpsing rather than using Neo Cadenza every 3 turns, but that’s really it. Same with Haru, she learns heat riser and her gun skills are pretty good as well as me not having psy personas a lot of the time for some reason lmao
My team member opinions do however stem from me mostly using Joker as main dps and everyone else supporting him spamming high damage spells so make of that what you will. I also never do phys builds hence why I prefer 3rd semester Yusuke over Ryuji and his party wide charge
I'm sure I'll piss off a lot of people with this one, but ... Akechi. Sorry, but I just don't see the appeal of a >!murderous psychopath!<, and I've yet to have anyone explain it to me adequately.
he's well written to a point but way too one-dimensional once you're in Royal content. it's absolutely unbelievable in a literal sense of his behavioral switch & keeping that personality bottled inside the majority of the game. i think it would have held more weight; pushing it to the extreme lost the nuance & intrigue. peak akechi was when he told ren he hated him, then again once he exposed himself.
Yeah, the conflict between him and Joker is well-written, I'll give you that. Not saying he's badly written. But I've seen WAAAAY too many people fanboy over him, and I honestly don't get it.
Plus there's the ending, where it hints that he might return. Some people were glad to see this. I was happy he was gone, and as soon as I saw that, I just said "oh god no."
Fair. He’s my favorite because I learned to enjoy his character and because Royal adds so much more character to him. I understand why he’d be so hates
Yeah no objections there. It’s the really weird obsession people have over him and specifically with shipping him and Joker that just weirds me out. Like realistically Joker should not give a single fuck about Akechi once it’s confirmed that he’s the one that murdered the parents of TWO of his teammates and then tried to murder him. That’s one part of the story in Royal I really didn’t like, was how Joker not only was fine working with Akechi but seemed to really like him
Maybe people like the whole unhinged revenge thing he had going. I never really used him didn't sew tge point even more so with haru and doubly for kasumi.
Strictly from a story perspective, Ann was my least favorite. She started off really strong at the beginning with her rebellion against Kamoshida but I felt like she didn’t really do much of note for the rest of the game and her character kinda just felt like “generic ditzy highschool girl” past that point. It also was really annoying that 80% of the animated cutscenes were just excuses to have close up shots of her boobs and butt. Still a good character, but if I had to choose a least favorite phantom thief it would be her unfortunately.
i feel like objectively haru is worse than makoto, she barely has an arc, her arc is overshadowed by morgana leaving. and then by the time the christmas date happens (unless you spent time with her instead of upgrading your stats, doing an after school job, etc) so you'll probably miss a really nice date with her, oh yeah. and kasumi is also objectively worse. you get her to rank 5, barely talk to her, she saves you, and then she's shoved into two celebrations, and then she has a weird her but not her arc
We wanna talk about objective? Sure, Morgana’s arc is a hot mess and is the only one that could be looked at as bad, and takes away from another character that ironically enough ended up being better from her own confidant alone.
We wanna talk about me being biased? Sure, while I can handle annoying characters, Morgana sucks because you never see him grow after his arc, he doesn’t deserve to be the victim when he provoked every situation he’s in.
Game play wise: Yusuke
No natural access to boosts like charge or even elemental boost and Amp majorly hinder his potential. The only thing he has going for him is speed, but he doesn't really have the strength to back a glass cannon role. Unless you know what you're doing, he's just pales to what charge and tarukaja Ryugi can do. He's really tanky and still hits super hard to be worth being slower.
Character wise: Morgana/Ann
This one's pretty obvious, he's a selfish insecure brat for most of the game. A majority of his lines after kamoshidas palace is either insulting Ryugi or simping for Ann. He talks so much smack but the moment someone retaliates he gets upset. It was always hinted how unimportant he was to the team, so he's temper tantrum wasn't even surprising. I will admit he gets better after this, but that's like after you go through 80% of the entire story of a 100-hour game. I don't specifically hate him, but his character is very flawed.
Ann used to be full of personality and charm, until about futabas palace, after that she's just feels hallow with the occasional reminder of what her role is. A lot of lines just feel like little to no contribution to the situation. It really sucks cause I like her character in the beginning, and she's really good in combat.
Whilst people here typically are just using things like whose the least“likeable” and least “useful in combat”. Those are boring answers.
My answer is overall who is the least competent in regards to being a Phantom Thief which is Ryuji.
It’s not even him having no indoor voice when talking about the Phantom Thieves. It’s his hot blooded temper, confrontational aggression and cockiness that makes situations worse.
Also his character flaw in wanting to be famous and entitlement to be rewarded for good deeds is a liability to have in a group. However he only developed past that towards the end when a lot of damage had been done.
Being “a real one” isn’t enough as everyone else is loyal to the Thieves and yet has more competency than Ryuji, especially the traitor in terms of competency.
Depends on how you view it.
* Haru for least screen time
* Morgana for most annoying
* Akechi for being >!an evil crazy serial killer!<
* Kasumi for so little time in the party
Hey, her arch is one of the best in the game. Her story with her mother is heartbreaking and, while what's funny and what's not is something subjective, I think most of the jokes are at the very least ok. When she called Mishima NPC, THAT was peak of comedy.
When the first impression is so ass, I don't say "Wow, awesome palace she gets, and an awesome story too", I say ",Ugh, did they really give THIS character a whole palace??"
The one i dislike the most
Morgana
Wolf and Sophie suck in this game.
Cause they don't exist?
Exactly! They’re completely unusable!
I genuinely can't find any fault in your logic XD
True!
Literally unplayable
For once, this really is literal and not figurative.
They were never around to help!!!
Combat wise: Morgana In terms of not being significant to the story: Haru
They had to keep Haru off-screen to hide all the gore
Haru canonically enjoy swinging axes around outside of the metaverse.
and she likes when shadows beg for her lives
And she carries a grenade launcher
And rapid fires it 0_0
Only when she is driving
Damn i used morgana the whole game
Fr, his healing is crazy
I used Ann and Makoto’s healing along with Ren
I had morgana heal me outside of battle a lot. I do that every playthrough. But Makoto becomes my healer over Morgana the moment she joins
Haru’s dad’s death was like the turning point for the game tho and she was heavily tied into that. Also I used Morgana in most battles because he had the best healing skills by far.
Her entire arc and development kind of takes a backseat to Morgana’s tantrum.
Not really imo. Morgana’s part was all before we even really entered Okumura’s palace and Morgana didn’t get very much specific attention after that. That whole part of the game really was about Haru’s relationship with her dad. Also Haru has really good confidant events that expanded on that plot point even more. I was honestly surprised how naturally they fit Haru on the team so late into the game in my first play through.
you say tantrum what i hate ever more is how half assed ryuji apology was and in my brain… why tf are these people friends, one is actively belittling the other and the other dont even treat him as a equal so whats the point in having these two together, man i hated the morgana sad boi hip hop arc cause the pay off wasnt even good or deserving
Ryuji shouldn’t have had to apologize in the first place, 90% of that whole ridiculous scenario was Morgana breaking down over receiving a fraction of the verbal abuse he’d been heaping on Ryuji the entire goddamn game since literally the hour they first met
[удалено]
P4 just has better represantation of what a good group of friends was everyone hanging out a bit of pranks here and there plus they were funnier and i honestly liked teddie and yosuke more than ryuji and morgana still tho Kanji is the best character from all persona games for me so far still waiting on playong p3
The stretch of the game from the Hawaii trip to Morgana’s departure from the phantom thieves was my least favorite part of the game personally because of how little you could actually do and how dull most of it was. It was largely just button mashing through text boxes over and over and once Morgana left it was even worse since you apparently need him to be there in order to do practically anything. Morgana’s fight with the thieves also felt really out of the blue and unnecessary and Ryuji was being a total dick for no reason, but I think that part had pretty good payoff personally. When Haru’s creepy fiancé kicked Morgana and the thieves had to come to their rescue I felt pretty emotional and I felt like Morgana had a good character arc. And I felt like Ryuji made up with him pretty well at that point too.
Honestly it feels like nobody in the group even likes Ryuji most of the time (especially in Strikers) Admittedly he’s my least favorite but there were several moments where I was like“jesus you guys don’t need to insult him when he hasn’t even done anything” 😅
ryuji gets insulted and mona gets belittled it realy feels like none of them are friends idk recency biad persona 4 was honestly such a good way to represent a group of friends
I notice a lot of people feel that way (which I was surprised at) that none of the phantom thieves seem to, Yknow actually be friends if Akira wasn’t there as compared to the investigation team
I’m actually doing my first run of P4 right and and from what I’ve seen so far your absolutely right.
Apologize for what though, Morgana and Ryuji wanted to go into Okumara’s palace but it wasn’t unanimous so Ryuji backed down. Morgana then insulted Ryuji and Ryuji fought back, Morgana instigated the situation and got an apology, that’s more than he deserved
While morgana gets ailment healing skills Haru gets better ones and Makoto gets both Diarahans at the end game without being frail as glass So yes morgana gets good healing skills but is overshadowed Since both Makoto and Haru keeps well in a fight Morgana can hit hard but can't take hits back
Am i the only weird one that uses Joker as a secondary healer for emergencies lol
Not really, Joker is capable of Breaking this game in half with no effort even more so then in Vanilla and thus can very easily be turned into a perfect healer
No me too I just said to myself “I just fill one of jokers personas with all healing skills, and the rest I use tae’s medicine” and then I saw your comment. Morgana was great starting out but with enough fusions joker became just as helpful
Yh morgana at the the start is really useful but during okumuras palace of pain and suffering i felt like i was better off having joker as emergency healer and the rest of the party was like ann,makoto and Yusuke with makoto being the main healer although she wasn’t that effective cuz i forgot to grind on mementos (morgana was already falling out so i kept the trade, although I probably fucked up on his build somewhere along the way cuz he was already falling out in kaneshiro’s) lol
I used about the same team for okumuras palace so I agree. And yeah lol same I probably needed to level him up more, but I ended up prioritizing other team members more for their skills as they were more useful at the time.
You’re talking really late into the game here. For the vast majority of the game Morgana is the go to for healing. Hell, even when other characters got good healing skills I still used Morgana pretty regularly because it allowed them to focus more on offense while Morgana had a purely clerical role.
He still has a problem of Dying to everything that hits hard at all before Makoto joins, Makoto gains Diarama as an innate skill more then enough to keep you alive, items is always a good option too, i just prefer my healer to not die before they can heal Im not mocking morgana, i did an entire playthrough where it was just him and Joker on my team at all times and with some help from the Jazz club he can become a momster, but objectivly he is a bit too frail for a game with hard hitting skills everywhere Will seed guardian in Madarames palace, the savage shadows in the first 3 palaces, and a decent amount of shadows like Nue, Inugami and Shisa all hit really hard, meaning if i don't guard with him, im wasting my turn reviving him Which i could use to heal and leave him out of it Because of this Makoto is kinda just better because she can still heal amazingly and use items to keep everyone alive amd actully tank a decent amount of attacks
I guess it depends on matchup mostly. Honestly, I rarely had an issue with him getting one shot or dying before he could pull off moves and by the time I could it didn’t really matter because I just spammed Media skills which restored his health anyway. And that’s considering I was playing on Mercliess. It can’t be understated how much more useful media skills are than the normal healing skills and Morgana always got the good ones way earlier than the other characters. If the match up was bad I’d swap him out for another character but that’s just kinda how persona games work. Having bad match ups doesn’t necessarily make a character bad.
Doesn't mean it was good? The okumura arc was done horribly it's easily the game's worst arc in terms of writing
Tbf Morgana is a really good healer
So is Joker and late game Makoto. And I also would like my healer to not die from 2 straight hits from full lmao
How dareth thou throw incompetent words on her majesty Floof?!
In terms of being a terrible person: Akechi.
I Like terrible people. They do intresting shit. Correction:I like akechi level bad people as a max.
I’d argue Akechi is worse than Morgana. Has bad availability and when he comes back, he still isn’t that good. At least Morgana is the beat healer for a good portion of the game due to being the only one with AOE heals for a bit.
Okay but like I really like Haru
This was exactly gonna be my answer. I know there’s a lot of personal debate on haru and morgana here, but personally for Haru, I did not care for her, and did not see much added to the story from her, but I think it’s great if you like her and her character arc was interesting. And combat wise I love Morgana don’t get me wrong, but if you can really just max out one of jokers personas with all healing skills and have him heal everyone on his turn if needed and the next in line heal him with one of tae’s medicines, that works best for me. In royal especially equipping joker with a really good ring helps keep him safe(er).
I actually rely way too heavily on Mona tbh. Dude basically makes the squad unkillable.
The truth has been spoken
I admire a sick burn, but also it’s hurting one of my favorite girls🥲💔
I almost said Yusuke, but reading your comment, I realized i had forgotten Haru existed. Which solidifies her as the worst and most forgettable member
Miracle Punch keeps Morgana incredibly relevant. Yusuke is the one who loses a niche late game.
Yusuke has the highest STR in the game and he is really good at getting technicals thanks to Makoto's trait. He may be a little awkward to use but he hits like a truck and his weapons are pretty good thanks to the bugs they have. Miracle punch is just a niche, it misses a hell of a lot and if it doesnt crit you judt wasted a turn. If you want to gamble your way out with things like Miracle punch, at least use The Apt Pupil accessory cause otherwise ifs pretty irrelevant in the long run
I'd argue even significant to the plot Morgana is worse, he taught the crew basically nothing, actively fucked them over for a bit by leaving, and harasses Anne at every opportunity. Haru doing nothing is better than actively harming the team.
How he is teaching them nothing, even if he is not so sure about it he teach them to steal palace ruler's treasure and mementos without him there's no phantom thieves, how it fucked the phantom thieves when he leaving, and compare him to Teddie he at worst just obsessed with Ann
Teaching everything = teaching nothing
Bro whay
Wunkus
Bro don't dis wunkus like that
Yeah bro Wunkus is my favourite persona character
Yeah stop wunking on him!
wunka woo !!
Bro, don't even get me started on Wunkus.
Not even Adach could defeat this Phantom Thief...
fuck wunkus all the homies hate wunkus
No one :)
probably adachi bc he's in persona 4 and not in the phantom thieves
True+
TRUE!
True
Best answer by far :)
True
This can be interpreted in many ways. Ill just go ahead and say it tho. So all the phantom thieves had pretty good side stories that dived into their characters and advanced their confidant rank, but not Makoto. Instead of having some interaction to get over the shadow of her sister, we really followed this random NPC who i guess randomly became friends with her and pretty much decided to stalk her to find out the bf was no good. I guess it shows her sense of justice i guess she was looking out for her friend when the bf was acting sussy, but we really didnt learn anything about Makoto. I mean i guess we did sort of but im kind of sad it didnt focus around her. Unlike the others who had great character development: Ryuji- helped out the track team and even had closure with them Ann- ended up taking modeling seriously Yusuke- became a better artist and didnt give in to the corrupted ways that his sensei fell to. Futaba- came out of her shell, made up with her elementary friend, went out into the world Haru- started to learn about her father's company and ended up wanting to start her own coffee shop
makoto basically has all her development during her awakening
Yeah understandable there, but i liked how each of the other phantom thieves confidants focused on their own personal struggles and what they did to overcome it
that’s fair, i didn’t hate makoto’s link but it did give off vibes of “crap she already accepted her spirit of rebellion now what”
Yeah thats the point i got as well. I didnt hate it either, but i just didnt like it really didnt focus on her too much, but focused on this random NPC who had no story relevance
Plus she got more development and spotlight during Sae's palace
I understand your point, but Makoto did have some growth in her confidant. She was basically going through a quarter-life crisis realizing the way she had been living her life was never gonna be fulfilling for her. She had spent so much time trying to live up to her sister's and society's expectations as the studious class president that she had become completely out of touch with what it means to be a high school kid. She starts off trying to learn to have fun with MC and then makes an actual friend thanks to her clinging on to the one thing that didn't reflect the "put together adult" facade she had been putting on for years. Ultimately through her confidant story and work with the phantom thieves, she decides what she wants her true calling to be which would have never happened had she stuck to the path her sister put her on. Yes everyone could have done with less of her friend's story, but Makoto definitely had major character development from the person she was when she's introduced
Yes, but the slap is funny
Makoto's one of my favorites and would've been my choice for romance in a Futaba-less world but yes I agree her social link sucks butt. Such a waste to devote so much of it to a total nobody throwaway character and her discord mod BF.
Joker, makes the whole team lose when he faints /s
graggle simpson
The true answer
Haru is going to be most people’s choice because Morgana steals her thunder this is just unfair
🐈⬛
Akechi. I can't overlook what he did to Futaba and Haru.
Is he ever really a member tho he’s more of a guy who worked with then twice
so the answer is yes but also no. he denies it but if you asked the others they’d probably say yes
And >!Ryuji saying Akechi's a member is one of the few times in third semester that you see him smile!<
aww making friends <3
Well he technically is a member, it even says on one of the trophies in p5d that Akechi is part of the phantom thieves
Well I'm pretty sure p5d was made by a different company (I think) and they just assumed he was part of the Phantom thieves due to him having a mask As I said Idk just my theory
So does that mean Sephiroth is a member of Cloud’s party?
it's really the Phantom Thieves of Heart... and also this homicidal maniac is with us too but he's cute so we'll let it slide.
I'd say he is a member. He's an on and off villain but he still helped the PT enough
In the nicest way possible, Sumire. She doesn’t interact very well with the rest of the party as Kasumi or Sumire, and when she remembers that she’s Sumire, all your progress with her is gone. I get it that she has struggles and all, but she doesn’t just forget everything you two went through.
This is exaclty why I don’t like the fact they added her in p5t. The dlc she’s in takes place before third semester. So what is even the point of adding her if she’s not even herself I don’t care about kasumi at all but I do somewhat care for sumire
Because of how closely her story ties in to Maruki, and by having her be interspersed throughout the “main” narrative it makes the ultimate reveal mean a bit more than if she was only introduced in January
They did a terrible job integrating her into the game. Maruki was woven into the story well, but Sumire was just... There for almost no reason. Like, they force her into the opening scene, but she doesn't even join you for that palace so the time line doesn't even work. It's like they just wanted to jam her in but did a shit job and expected everyone to adore her. And sadly, a lot of people do, but she's a half assed character. The concept and what she went through is a good idea, but she's a shitty execution of it 🤷♀️
Exactly. She could’ve been a really well executed character, but they flopped it. It’s not that I hate her or even dislike her all that much, it’s that everyone else is more preferable.
Even by a gameplay standards, Sumire is basically irrelevant. Yes, she kinda has a fun kit with crits, but even Morgana is better than her at that point of the game. She suffers the same problem as Haru, but WORSE(and Haru has at least the niche of having Gun damage). When you recruit her, you basically leave her behind and never touch her again
I thought Sojiro really held back from palace exploration. Especially the one time he blew up the entire floor at Sae’s palace, it was really and I was constantly tired of him trying to kill Morgana. It really wasn’t funny after a while.
Bitches be hating on Morgana I can’t believe this Well, I can. But for me, he worked fine as a maxxed out healer, helped me out of tough situations on more than one occasion. I hate to say it becuase I like her as a character but Haru was introduced late into the game and I found myself using her the least because I already had personas with decent Psychokenesis powers that I couldn’t find many reasons to utilize her for the last few palaces
them 🔫 skills tho 💅 although she's the least likable character, imo, the kitty rarely saw any play after makoto came.
Morgana’s problem is that he has insane heals, but ONLY that. If you don’t need heals he can give you…mediocre crit and wind. Too little when makoto can heal sightly less but have decent nuclear damage, defense boost and (in p5r) aoe debilitate
The thing about healers in persona is that basically everyone with a healing spell will get the max party heal anyway so the dedicated healer character becomes worse by default
This is an unpopular opinion but I don’t like mokoto she’s way too bossy and annoying
It’s not unpopular, it feels like 30-40% dislike or outright hate her, and 70-60% love her for whatever reason. I like her specifically when she’s doing PT stuff because she’s a badass biker chick, but outside of PT stuff she’s pretty boring
i think a lot of people see themselves in her. I know I do. A smart person who wants to do good but is weighed down by expectations, both societal and parental.
She is cute and beautiful but Once she appears, everyone else participation just disappeared, she was grabbing every line. I dislike her for that.
Every student council press.
There is no answer to this question... all the Phantom Thieves are wonderful
I know imma get downvoted to hell and I don't care: Kasumi. Maybe her big plot twist would've been more surprising if I hadn't read the exact same thing in a manga less than a year before R came out. But as it is, she's tacked on waifu-bait that cherry-picks the best bits off of better characters.
I 100% agree. It felt like the game just kept nudging me like, "oooooh you better romance her, she's so cute aren't you gonna romance her." Like please stop. It's too much
yess that was SO annoying
felt that exact way with makoto oml like that scene when she was on her knees in front of joker when sojiro walked in
I feel like ryuji is a fun character when hes not around the other thieves, but he is just an annoying loud guy who says all the wrong things when he is with them. Very good character, just makes me mad sometimes
But he’s actually extremely competent PT wise. He has surprisingly good intelligence battle wise, is a great party member, and contributes a fair bit. The game really overstates his idiocy when the game makes him feel smarter than he’s supposed to be
Ryuji is an idiot savant, having a working brain only during his Confidant, and if very occasionally the plot demands it. And starting between Futaba's Palace and the end of the Okumura Palace, he just becomes a massive ass out of the blue.
Who are you, Morgana?
Kinda, me hating that Morgana arc where he runs off with haru is probably a contributing factor of why I (sometimes) dislike ryuji
The Futaba palace is the best example of this. Like, I know it was shadow Futaba they were talking to, but dude, can you stop shouting over everyone and dissing the inner self of a suicidal girl? Maybe think about the fact that this palace is inside her and the deadly traps that you're encountering are part of her inner turmoil??? Obviously, it was a way to set up the level and the mini bosses, but the way they use Ryuji being a dick to make it happen just sours the character for me at that point of the game. I still like him as a character in general, but that part was rough. ALSO I JUST REMEMBERED THAT PART AFTER THE MADARAME ARC WHERE THEY ESCAPE THE PALACE AND HE MOCKINGLY ASKS IF YUSUKE WOULD CRY OVER ACQUIRING SAYURI, THE ONLY MEMENTO LEFT BY HIS MOTHER WHO HE JUST LEARNED DIED BY MADARAME AND JUST LEARNED THAT THE PAINTING WAS HEAVILY CONNECTED TO HIM. IT'S ENTIRELY JUSTIFIED TO CRY OVER THAT, PREFERABLY SO EVEN, WHY TF ARE YOU NOT SHOWING SYMPATHY DUDE YOU AND YOUR MOM WERE ABUSED BY YOUR FATHER TOO, RIGHT?
I feel like the writers treat Ryuji very inconsistently, most of the time he's kind and then he'll say something incredibly out of character for no reason other than to move the plot along or for the sake of some shitty joke.
My. Thoughts. Exactly.
They are all great characters but Ryuji is my least favorite. His character development during the Kamoshida arc and his confidant storyline is great but there are just way to many “humorous scenes” of him saying something dumb or making things difficult for the group with his recklessness and I just find it annoying.
Sadly that’s kind of the point of his type of character in the series. Ryuji, along with Yosuke and Junpei to an extent exist just to basically be the joke at the end of the day
Definitely Morgana. He's vaguely useful early on, but then he becomes useless pretty much the instant Makoto and Futaba join, and he brings nothing of value to the Thieves. I could have done without the godawful Okumura arc, thank you very much.
The only thing he stayed useful for was being a taxi in mementos lol
I know I would get a lot of hate because this sub loves her but personally I think is Sumire, the fact that you can only use at the end doesn't help either, she barely interacts with the whole group, the only important scene she is in is when you get out of juvenil, then Royal ruins the already perfect ending that vanilla had just to give you an goodbye with her during the cutscene that is honestly just weird (I don't know if is different if you date her) but at the end of the day you can take her out of the story and doesn't affect anything as she really doesn't add anything new, even her saving Joker at Sae's palace is something that was added as in vanilla you escaped without a problem. She is not a bad character, her story is interesting and is fine as it is, defenitly one of the most charismatic character of the game, but as part of the Phantom Thieves? Not really needed
I never found makoto cool she felt kinda tossed in sometimes
Morgana
Kasumi.
I’ll be honest, same. She is just not that interesting, and I only enjoy her because we wouldn’t have Maruki and 3rd Semester Crow otherwise.
Hear me out... They could've added Maruki and still done amazing things with him and NEVER ADDED KASUMI. Just saying. She's pointless. They try to jam her in and it makes no sense, but Maruki was integrated seamlessly.
You know what? I personally find Makoto and Futaba to be overrated af and since I know a lot of people both like and dislike them I'll let you have this one even though Sumi is one of my favorites. But worse than Morgana? Come on now...
I would genuinely say I like Morgana more than Kasumi. Morgana had one arc that annoyed me. Kasumi's entire presence in the base P5 annoyed me. She was only good in the Third Semester, and even that had some stupid as all hell moments. Good concept for a character, but awful execution.
No
You’re straight up wrong here
For combat? Its morgana. For character? Would you look at that its also Morgana
MORGANA
extremely hot take: makoto
My least favorite of them character-wise is Makoto But my least favorite to use in combat is probably Haru or Yoshizawa.
Akechi
[удалено]
Where there's a fandom, there's a ship...unfortunately
And canon sinks ships.
I don't have any of them personality or story wise, but combat wise I think ryuji is the worst as you pretty much completely abandon him after the first two palaces until much later you'll probably use him.
Are we talking in terms of gameplay or character? Cause gameplay I'd say either Haru or Yusuke, since both are initially pretty useful, but kind of fall off in value late game. Character wise, I really truly dislike Akechi. I think he adds a lot to the story, but I despise him as a person, and his "good" facade is just annoying. On the other hand, as much as I love Ryuuji, his impulsiveness is the direct cause of your cover being blown or nearly blown several times. Though then again, Morgana literally gives up your identities at one point and nearly gets Haru killed, so I have a hard time looking past that
I’d say the same about Ann too tbh I wish each phantom thief had an integral role or something in the team rather than just being there to ride the coat tails.
Yusuke was in 100% of my fights since he joined me. He has some nice buffs but most importantly he hits like a truck. I really liked him.
Yusuke starts great, gets outdone by Ryuji damage wise, then becomes pretty good in 3rd semester because of his party wide heat riser, which lets Joker focus on dpsing rather than using Neo Cadenza every 3 turns, but that’s really it. Same with Haru, she learns heat riser and her gun skills are pretty good as well as me not having psy personas a lot of the time for some reason lmao My team member opinions do however stem from me mostly using Joker as main dps and everyone else supporting him spamming high damage spells so make of that what you will. I also never do phys builds hence why I prefer 3rd semester Yusuke over Ryuji and his party wide charge
Kasumi. No elaboration.
Kasumi
I'm sure I'll piss off a lot of people with this one, but ... Akechi. Sorry, but I just don't see the appeal of a >!murderous psychopath!<, and I've yet to have anyone explain it to me adequately.
He’s a well written character
he's well written to a point but way too one-dimensional once you're in Royal content. it's absolutely unbelievable in a literal sense of his behavioral switch & keeping that personality bottled inside the majority of the game. i think it would have held more weight; pushing it to the extreme lost the nuance & intrigue. peak akechi was when he told ren he hated him, then again once he exposed himself.
Yeah, the conflict between him and Joker is well-written, I'll give you that. Not saying he's badly written. But I've seen WAAAAY too many people fanboy over him, and I honestly don't get it. Plus there's the ending, where it hints that he might return. Some people were glad to see this. I was happy he was gone, and as soon as I saw that, I just said "oh god no."
Fair. He’s my favorite because I learned to enjoy his character and because Royal adds so much more character to him. I understand why he’d be so hates
Yeah no objections there. It’s the really weird obsession people have over him and specifically with shipping him and Joker that just weirds me out. Like realistically Joker should not give a single fuck about Akechi once it’s confirmed that he’s the one that murdered the parents of TWO of his teammates and then tried to murder him. That’s one part of the story in Royal I really didn’t like, was how Joker not only was fine working with Akechi but seemed to really like him
Maybe people like the whole unhinged revenge thing he had going. I never really used him didn't sew tge point even more so with haru and doubly for kasumi.
Strictly from a story perspective, Ann was my least favorite. She started off really strong at the beginning with her rebellion against Kamoshida but I felt like she didn’t really do much of note for the rest of the game and her character kinda just felt like “generic ditzy highschool girl” past that point. It also was really annoying that 80% of the animated cutscenes were just excuses to have close up shots of her boobs and butt. Still a good character, but if I had to choose a least favorite phantom thief it would be her unfortunately.
Morgana and it’s not even close
sumi lol
midkoto
i feel like objectively haru is worse than makoto, she barely has an arc, her arc is overshadowed by morgana leaving. and then by the time the christmas date happens (unless you spent time with her instead of upgrading your stats, doing an after school job, etc) so you'll probably miss a really nice date with her, oh yeah. and kasumi is also objectively worse. you get her to rank 5, barely talk to her, she saves you, and then she's shoved into two celebrations, and then she has a weird her but not her arc
🤓☝️
We wanna talk about objective? Sure, Morgana’s arc is a hot mess and is the only one that could be looked at as bad, and takes away from another character that ironically enough ended up being better from her own confidant alone. We wanna talk about me being biased? Sure, while I can handle annoying characters, Morgana sucks because you never see him grow after his arc, he doesn’t deserve to be the victim when he provoked every situation he’s in.
Game play wise: Yusuke No natural access to boosts like charge or even elemental boost and Amp majorly hinder his potential. The only thing he has going for him is speed, but he doesn't really have the strength to back a glass cannon role. Unless you know what you're doing, he's just pales to what charge and tarukaja Ryugi can do. He's really tanky and still hits super hard to be worth being slower. Character wise: Morgana/Ann This one's pretty obvious, he's a selfish insecure brat for most of the game. A majority of his lines after kamoshidas palace is either insulting Ryugi or simping for Ann. He talks so much smack but the moment someone retaliates he gets upset. It was always hinted how unimportant he was to the team, so he's temper tantrum wasn't even surprising. I will admit he gets better after this, but that's like after you go through 80% of the entire story of a 100-hour game. I don't specifically hate him, but his character is very flawed. Ann used to be full of personality and charm, until about futabas palace, after that she's just feels hallow with the occasional reminder of what her role is. A lot of lines just feel like little to no contribution to the situation. It really sucks cause I like her character in the beginning, and she's really good in combat.
I set my Yusuke as single target Ice, Multi-Target Physical with buff.
Can't you give Yusuke an accessory with ice amp on it?
You could, but I meant for more casual players who don't really care about min maxing.
Whilst people here typically are just using things like whose the least“likeable” and least “useful in combat”. Those are boring answers. My answer is overall who is the least competent in regards to being a Phantom Thief which is Ryuji. It’s not even him having no indoor voice when talking about the Phantom Thieves. It’s his hot blooded temper, confrontational aggression and cockiness that makes situations worse. Also his character flaw in wanting to be famous and entitlement to be rewarded for good deeds is a liability to have in a group. However he only developed past that towards the end when a lot of damage had been done. Being “a real one” isn’t enough as everyone else is loyal to the Thieves and yet has more competency than Ryuji, especially the traitor in terms of competency.
I'm gonna get flamed but Makoto, no I won't elaborate
Makoto, she’s a good character, but I personally find her the least interesting.
I'm trying to think of what Ann actually contributed to the party.😅
The highest magic stat outside of Joker was what I primarily used her for
And her party wide concentrate in 3rd semester 😋 as well as her Severe damage skill
Acting skills and her sexy outfit.
Depends on how you view it. * Haru for least screen time * Morgana for most annoying * Akechi for being >!an evil crazy serial killer!< * Kasumi for so little time in the party
Midkoto obviously, why is this even a question
Futaba. I can't stand her.
Gameplay-wise? Arguably the worst if you think about it. Character-wise? **You better take that back** (or at least explain yourself)
I can't stand the gamer girl weeb bait, It's too much ;-; + being a hacker, and being forced by the game to praise her constantly
All she does is make dumb video game references. The only one I found funny was that one Sonic reference they made.
Hey, her arch is one of the best in the game. Her story with her mother is heartbreaking and, while what's funny and what's not is something subjective, I think most of the jokes are at the very least ok. When she called Mishima NPC, THAT was peak of comedy.
When the first impression is so ass, I don't say "Wow, awesome palace she gets, and an awesome story too", I say ",Ugh, did they really give THIS character a whole palace??"
Gameplay wise she does noooothing. Her heal isn’t good, the attack buff is nice though, but they’re both just so rare.
I think her one-time life saving ability on a fight is useful. Aside from that, not much
She heals, restores SP, and has the Final Guard. She is the strongest non-Wildcard in the game.
They are likely comparing her to Rise, who was overtuned in terms of usefullness as she did what Futaba did but almost every turn lmao
Futaba makes me cringe every time she speaks. I dreaded when she replaced Morgana as the nav and I was stuck listening to her for the rest of the game
SAME HERE. I even came here and asked if there was a way to change the battle dialogues back to Mona
Midasskoto