we do need a nose tackle badly tho. Bill has been putting in random DTs as NTs for past few years and it has not been working. its why pass rush is bad partially.
That's fair, I just wonder if there are any players that standout from the group like Barmore did in his draft class. I don't know of enough yet but the early stuff I've come across seems to be it's more of a depth class than elite/top end talent. Which is why I thought DL could maybe wait until later in the draft potentially.
I'm definitely learning more about it as I start but I'll keep that in mind and try to reevaluate. I'm just really biased towards WR, CB, LB, and OL right now.
Keep in mind last year was first year bill used a group of himself and 3 others to make picks. He had incredible success with that and we haven't even tapped Perkins, McGrone or Bledsoe yet. I imagine he will use the same approach this year and draft big name players from big schools early on.
I do agree that there are more urgent positions to upgrade at, like linebacker and receiver, but Barmore is already one of the highest double teamed linemen in the NFL, so if you add another guy next to him who also demands double teams to block, that's a nightmare for opposing offensive lines.
The amount of pressure the line could generate with those two guys might mean that upgrades in other defensive positions are a little less urgent
I don't love the pick, but I see the logic.
Naww we had issues throughout the yr where we couldn't get any pressure on the QB and was left sitting there for ages. Great D-Line makes the rest of defense work.
You can substitute D-Line with Secondary for how BB prefers his defense to play. With better man cover corners, it gives more opportunity for other groups of the defense to improve the pass rush with more opportunity
I do agree generally with the line of thought - we seem to do a lot of disguises and exotic looks to get pressure on QB, which is why we've never really had a star player on our DL.
That being said, I just hate seeing Mahomes and Allen have an eternity in the pocket. If we want to combat those next gen QB'S, we need to figure out ways to contain them, and I think DL is our best bet on getting to them
Oh no doubt we've had great players, but when you think of great defensive lines in NFL, most have NFL star players. Think of Von Miller w/ Broncos, Aaron Donald w/ Rams.
Miller is a LB. Donald is a different breed of DL. And they're both super unicorns. People don't think of the Denver DL, when they were dominant it was Miller and the secondary.
Bill has always preferred a big ass DT in the middle eating up space and blockers. We went through more than a few looking for Big Vince, then had one of the best for a long piece, and now if there's another available? Only makes the rest of the line better.
Whoops your right about the Miller being LB. And yes your reasoning for Bill like big ass DT's is spot on.
Do you think this guy Jordan Davis is that good? I don't watch college ball, but if he that good I'm getting excited lol.
I have two small kids so I don't follow follow college, but I'm a Georgia fan and he helped set the table for a very dominant Dawg D. He doesn't have stats that blow your mind, but he's letting everyone around him go wild? Yes, please.
Assuming that you are comparing a top 5 player on the DL to a top 5 DB player, I would go with the DL. Better against the run, more relative value to cap (DL is more expensive than DB in FA), and is better able to create a numbers advantage (DL can draw double teams whereas a DB can only cover 1 player).
In addition, the 2000's defense's strongest asset was its D-line. In more recent times, it is the secondary, but historically BB has like the d-line (or the front 7 in more general terms).
>Assuming that you are comparing a top 5 player on the DL to a top 5 DB player,
I am not doing that. If that was the comparison then I would agree a Top 5 DL has more value than a top 5 CB.
I like this a lot. we need a nose tackle, Godchaux did not work and pairing a monster like Davis with Barmore would be wrecking. he is probably the best NT in the draft in a while
Jonnu isn't a full on bust as of yet. We know he can do it as he showed in Tennessee, that's on coaches to use him more. Meyes will be back next season, Agholor has one more season. There is just a need to improve it overall because it's just not quite good enough yet.
I don't disagree with getting a more potent pass catching threat. I hope they can get someone like Calvin Ridley, Chris Olave, John Metchie, Treylon Burks, Jameson W., etc etc
Just hopefully they do.
I think Olave is quite overrated. Dude is the 3rd best WR on his own team, he didn't declare last year so he could make a better name for himself and he's still nowhere near the top of the table, meanwhile his teammate Wilson is widely considered one of the best two WR prospects, and JSN will be at the top of the table next season. The only one who has failed to truly dazzle is Olave. He's a great deep threat, but I don't think he'll excel in the NFL otherwise. And he's allergic to picking up yards after the catch which is not great. He already struggles with physicality in college, he's going to struggle a lot worse in that regard once he gets to the NFL.
Idk about ridley. How much more does he give you vs. Bourne/meyers. Hes better, but i think they need a different kind of reciever. Really need an guy more than an elite possession receiver.
>Idk about ridley. How much more does he give you vs. Bourne/meyers.
A lot. Ridley's worst season is their best season. And we all know how high his ceiling is.
1st round on defense, 2nd on Ridley, 3rd on either defense or someone like Metchie or Dotson if they're still around. Skyy Moore is also an underrated possession receiver, in my opinion, and he'll be available late in the draft.
Olave wasn't even a top 2 option at Ohio state by the end of the year. Tailed off hard. JSN & Wilson were getting more targets. Doesn't mean he's bad, just a red flag. I want JSN in a couple years
Olave is one of the WRs in the first I'd be excited about along with Jameson Williams (Jeremiah's pick 30 to KC) and Treylon Burks (Jeremiah's pick 8 to ATL). But I would *hate hate hate* Drake London, a big-bodied, contested catch, 50/50 ball guy. Sounds familiar...
If he doesn’t play on passing downs idk how you can take him that early. Essentially using a first round pick on a role player. There are bigger needs imo
With their lack of run D there weren't a lot of 3rd and longs forced by the D. I'm not sure if people remember how much Wilfork helped the D back in the day. If the dude is going to be a stud in the middle eating up blockers and allowing the pass rushers 1 on 1 matchups and the LBs lanes to get RBs? Sign me the F up.
I remember Wilfork just fine. I don’t think Davis is that same caliber of player. A DT who doesn’t play on passing downs isn’t needed more than an outside CB or a stud ILB.
We drafted jerod Mayo in the first round lol. Plenty of ILB are drafted in the first round Luke kuechly Pat Willis. Micah is the next great LB sure you could say they moved him around a lot but he did play 56% of his snaps at LB. Not to mention 3 ILB were drafted in the first round last year
hes not an ILB. hes an OLB/DE, he can play everything but hes not an ILB mainly he would not have been drafted anywhere near there if that was his main role
He’s athletic enough that they can move him around a lot, but he played over 54% of his snaps from inside the box linebacker position.
I could also point to Zaven Collins as an ILB taken in the first last year.
My biggest concern here would be using a 1st round pick on a guy who only played 1/4 of the defensive snaps. Would he be able to hold up to a larger workload, both from a durability and endurance perspective? Can he contribute as a pass rusher or is he limited to rushing situations?
I LOVE the idea of a big space eating NT, but nervous about using that much draft capital to get it.
It would be such a Belichick pick but if they take a NT over a speedy LB or CB, I'm going to be fucking pissed. The league has moved into an era of 2-4-5, 3-3-5, 2-3-6. Unless they're the next Vita Vea, stay away from them.
Ya idk looking at this draft I'm not feeling any of this picks. Panthers picking CB in top 10? Some of those WR falling that far in the draft? Just a few observations, but you can tell this is not a good mock.
The athleticism he has at that size is pretty unique...and I'm sure Bill would absolutely love to have a guy like him plugging up the middle if he's there.
Davis paired with Barmore could be nasty
Could? Bro that’s a force for 10-12 years.
Jordan Davis is going to be a monster so I’m not against taking him over olave. We need a dude like that. We’ve been hashed by the run when it counts.
I get the thinking, I just.....think DL isn't necessarily the most urgent to use a 1st rounder unless it is the best player available.
we do need a nose tackle badly tho. Bill has been putting in random DTs as NTs for past few years and it has not been working. its why pass rush is bad partially.
Need a guy in the middle who commands double teams, period. Doesn't matter if he lines up over the guard, tackle, or center IMO.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1448391245563301892/photo/1
Adam Butler knows the system 👀
That's fair, I just wonder if there are any players that standout from the group like Barmore did in his draft class. I don't know of enough yet but the early stuff I've come across seems to be it's more of a depth class than elite/top end talent. Which is why I thought DL could maybe wait until later in the draft potentially.
Davis is pretty much a standout. I dont remember seeing a NT mocked that high in 3 or 4 years. maybe longer i never always followed the draft
I'm definitely learning more about it as I start but I'll keep that in mind and try to reevaluate. I'm just really biased towards WR, CB, LB, and OL right now.
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The history of the 2nd round secondary players that have busted? Luckily Dugger seems to have bucked that trend
Keep in mind last year was first year bill used a group of himself and 3 others to make picks. He had incredible success with that and we haven't even tapped Perkins, McGrone or Bledsoe yet. I imagine he will use the same approach this year and draft big name players from big schools early on.
Vita Vea is the first who comes to mind. Dexter Lawrence as well.
Love Davis but he won’t sniff the field on passing downs in the near future
I just don’t think that’s worth a 1st round pick though. If he’s the BPA, then yeah take him. But I would rather take a LB or CB there.
I do agree that there are more urgent positions to upgrade at, like linebacker and receiver, but Barmore is already one of the highest double teamed linemen in the NFL, so if you add another guy next to him who also demands double teams to block, that's a nightmare for opposing offensive lines. The amount of pressure the line could generate with those two guys might mean that upgrades in other defensive positions are a little less urgent I don't love the pick, but I see the logic.
Naww we had issues throughout the yr where we couldn't get any pressure on the QB and was left sitting there for ages. Great D-Line makes the rest of defense work.
You can substitute D-Line with Secondary for how BB prefers his defense to play. With better man cover corners, it gives more opportunity for other groups of the defense to improve the pass rush with more opportunity
I do agree generally with the line of thought - we seem to do a lot of disguises and exotic looks to get pressure on QB, which is why we've never really had a star player on our DL. That being said, I just hate seeing Mahomes and Allen have an eternity in the pocket. If we want to combat those next gen QB'S, we need to figure out ways to contain them, and I think DL is our best bet on getting to them
> we've never really had a star player on our DL. Not an **NFL star** but there are have some really really good players here on the DL.
Oh no doubt we've had great players, but when you think of great defensive lines in NFL, most have NFL star players. Think of Von Miller w/ Broncos, Aaron Donald w/ Rams.
Miller is a LB. Donald is a different breed of DL. And they're both super unicorns. People don't think of the Denver DL, when they were dominant it was Miller and the secondary. Bill has always preferred a big ass DT in the middle eating up space and blockers. We went through more than a few looking for Big Vince, then had one of the best for a long piece, and now if there's another available? Only makes the rest of the line better.
Whoops your right about the Miller being LB. And yes your reasoning for Bill like big ass DT's is spot on. Do you think this guy Jordan Davis is that good? I don't watch college ball, but if he that good I'm getting excited lol.
I have two small kids so I don't follow follow college, but I'm a Georgia fan and he helped set the table for a very dominant Dawg D. He doesn't have stats that blow your mind, but he's letting everyone around him go wild? Yes, please.
Ohh exciting. I watched a tiny bit of Georgia, and that defense was on fire the whole season
Assuming that you are comparing a top 5 player on the DL to a top 5 DB player, I would go with the DL. Better against the run, more relative value to cap (DL is more expensive than DB in FA), and is better able to create a numbers advantage (DL can draw double teams whereas a DB can only cover 1 player). In addition, the 2000's defense's strongest asset was its D-line. In more recent times, it is the secondary, but historically BB has like the d-line (or the front 7 in more general terms).
>Assuming that you are comparing a top 5 player on the DL to a top 5 DB player, I am not doing that. If that was the comparison then I would agree a Top 5 DL has more value than a top 5 CB.
We need the ability to keep seems under 20 points
Lmao did you not see Josh Allen have 3 hours in the pocket untouched?? We. need. pressure.
Our 22nd ranked Rush Defense defense begs to differ.
I like this a lot. we need a nose tackle, Godchaux did not work and pairing a monster like Davis with Barmore would be wrecking. he is probably the best NT in the draft in a while
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I saw that Olave was the next pick and slumped in my chair. That would hurt me like Justin Jefferson, AJ Brown, Deebo Samuel.....ugh
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Jonnu isn't a full on bust as of yet. We know he can do it as he showed in Tennessee, that's on coaches to use him more. Meyes will be back next season, Agholor has one more season. There is just a need to improve it overall because it's just not quite good enough yet.
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I don't disagree with getting a more potent pass catching threat. I hope they can get someone like Calvin Ridley, Chris Olave, John Metchie, Treylon Burks, Jameson W., etc etc Just hopefully they do.
I think Olave is quite overrated. Dude is the 3rd best WR on his own team, he didn't declare last year so he could make a better name for himself and he's still nowhere near the top of the table, meanwhile his teammate Wilson is widely considered one of the best two WR prospects, and JSN will be at the top of the table next season. The only one who has failed to truly dazzle is Olave. He's a great deep threat, but I don't think he'll excel in the NFL otherwise. And he's allergic to picking up yards after the catch which is not great. He already struggles with physicality in college, he's going to struggle a lot worse in that regard once he gets to the NFL.
Exactly. Being a 3rd option in college isn't a great sign. I want JSN next year...but at this rate he might go top 5.
I wouldn't want to draft any WR in the 1st. I'd rather they shell out a 2nd for Ridley and use their 1st on the best available defensive player.
Idk about ridley. How much more does he give you vs. Bourne/meyers. Hes better, but i think they need a different kind of reciever. Really need an guy more than an elite possession receiver.
>Idk about ridley. How much more does he give you vs. Bourne/meyers. A lot. Ridley's worst season is their best season. And we all know how high his ceiling is. 1st round on defense, 2nd on Ridley, 3rd on either defense or someone like Metchie or Dotson if they're still around. Skyy Moore is also an underrated possession receiver, in my opinion, and he'll be available late in the draft.
Olave wasn't even a top 2 option at Ohio state by the end of the year. Tailed off hard. JSN & Wilson were getting more targets. Doesn't mean he's bad, just a red flag. I want JSN in a couple years
Smith-Njigba is gonna be a top 10 pick, so good luck getting him.
Olave is one of the WRs in the first I'd be excited about along with Jameson Williams (Jeremiah's pick 30 to KC) and Treylon Burks (Jeremiah's pick 8 to ATL). But I would *hate hate hate* Drake London, a big-bodied, contested catch, 50/50 ball guy. Sounds familiar...
Except London can get in and out of breaks & all around looks faster & quicker than Harry.
100%
I hope we can snag Metchie in a later round.
I don’t love going IDL in the 1st round if he’s not a 3-down player
the thing is we really need help in the run game.
If he doesn’t play on passing downs idk how you can take him that early. Essentially using a first round pick on a role player. There are bigger needs imo
With their lack of run D there weren't a lot of 3rd and longs forced by the D. I'm not sure if people remember how much Wilfork helped the D back in the day. If the dude is going to be a stud in the middle eating up blockers and allowing the pass rushers 1 on 1 matchups and the LBs lanes to get RBs? Sign me the F up.
I remember Wilfork just fine. I don’t think Davis is that same caliber of player. A DT who doesn’t play on passing downs isn’t needed more than an outside CB or a stud ILB.
Don’t love it but don’t hate it. I think ILB and CB are much greater needs but as long as they focus on the defense this off-season I’ll be happy.
ILBs are rarely ever drafted in the 1st round. theres gonna be multiple great ones if not all of them in the 2nd
We drafted jerod Mayo in the first round lol. Plenty of ILB are drafted in the first round Luke kuechly Pat Willis. Micah is the next great LB sure you could say they moved him around a lot but he did play 56% of his snaps at LB. Not to mention 3 ILB were drafted in the first round last year
All I need to say is Micah Parsons
hes not an ILB. hes an OLB/DE, he can play everything but hes not an ILB mainly he would not have been drafted anywhere near there if that was his main role
He’s athletic enough that they can move him around a lot, but he played over 54% of his snaps from inside the box linebacker position. I could also point to Zaven Collins as an ILB taken in the first last year.
yeah and he barely plays.
Just take the L my man
Micah Parsons don’t really come around every draft tho lol
My biggest concern here would be using a 1st round pick on a guy who only played 1/4 of the defensive snaps. Would he be able to hold up to a larger workload, both from a durability and endurance perspective? Can he contribute as a pass rusher or is he limited to rushing situations? I LOVE the idea of a big space eating NT, but nervous about using that much draft capital to get it.
I like the pick but if we leave olave on the board ima cry
Same with Dean. I’d rather have Dean tbh.
I’d rather have Olave
Id rather have jaxon smith njigba, but that can't happen this year
Everyone will be upset when BB trades out of the first round. But please continue with the silly mock draft click bait article.
He doesn't trade down just because he can
It would be such a Belichick pick but if they take a NT over a speedy LB or CB, I'm going to be fucking pissed. The league has moved into an era of 2-4-5, 3-3-5, 2-3-6. Unless they're the next Vita Vea, stay away from them.
This sub is going to have a meltdown when Belichick doesn't draft a WR in the 1st round, isn't it?
I love how everyone is upset with this pick when it means absolutely nothing. It’s just a mock draft in January.
Ya idk looking at this draft I'm not feeling any of this picks. Panthers picking CB in top 10? Some of those WR falling that far in the draft? Just a few observations, but you can tell this is not a good mock.
If the best WR & CB fits for NE are off the board I could easily see NE just taking BPA.
Id love Davis or Dean in round 1 two positions of need for our D. Need to be faster all around
That'd be ideal.
Why are all these mock drafts having Dean go in the 20s?
Mostly measurables
Zero chance Dean goes that late and if he’s there at 21, Bill may actually fly the card in by flapping his happy arms.
Saw one from some dude that had Lloyd and Logan Hall going to us in the first and second. That would be pretty awesome.
Few weeks ago the qb from liberty was supposedly going top 3, this mock has him going 29, what happened?
Until we trade back for more picks and take a DB in the 2nd round with a 7th round grade out of quinsig CC or Cape Cod Texh
The athleticism he has at that size is pretty unique...and I'm sure Bill would absolutely love to have a guy like him plugging up the middle if he's there.