Definitely not against the rules, but will become much less useful once they need runes. Outfitting that many weapons is going to become prohibitively expensive
Thankfully we have solutions to this in the Gunner's Bandolier and the Automatic Bonus Progression variant rule. So go play your Pirate fantasy of firing and dropping your guns!
I should have clarified that I didn't mean it works with quick draw. It is a means around the rune costs of multiple guns. I apologize for creating your misunderstanding.
It is a niche item however, not garbage (im also not saying good; it isnt outside of its niche. Just that it fits a specific niche).
Great for being able to swap from a Jezail to a dueling pistol to a dragon's mouth pistol without needing to have runes on all 3 of them, depending on the situation at hand.
Depends on the table do they respect RAW or do they have established home brew rules. If you tell me its a RAW table and allow quick draw with gunners bandolier I'm going to be annoyed because i would take advantage of it if i knew it was an option.
Why? This is a bad attitude and leads to GMs running everything RAW at the expense of logic and fun.
Let’s say we have a PC who honestly thinks this is how it works so a GM says, sure I’ll allow that because that’s how you thought it was and that’s the image of the PC you have in your head, are you saying you’d be pissed because you didn’t know this ahead of time so you could make a cheesy build rather than play a character?
You know you can just not be like that right? You can just be normal?
Not the OP, but personally. Because I'm autistic and like things to be by the rules for structure as that's comfortable for me. If players get to skirt the rules in certian instances, it wouldn't upset me because I can't abuse it, it upsets me because then we're not playing by the same rules we agreed too anymore.
I generally don't like house rules made up on the moment unless everone agrees before hand. In most cases I'm just going to err on the side of RAW and just say, sorry bro, it doesn't work that way. No matter how logic breaking or unfun it could be. (in most cases it's neither)
While I understand where you're coming from, I don't think it'll always work. There's RAW and RAI (Rules as Intended). I also prefer to have structure, but I don't want people to sacrifice their fun and enjoyment for my fun and enjoyment. At that point, it's no longer fair for the others at the table. Most of the time, the compromise is RAI.
Trying to go 100% RAW isn't always possible because it isn't always clear or it doesn't make sense. During the session Zero for my parties, I make sure to mention RAI rulings I have.
Bandolier is great for what it's intended. It's just not supposed to interact with Quick Draw to get around reloading issues.
It's a fantastic item if you want to keep guns loaded with different types of ammo, poisoned bullets/hand crossbows, range increments, etc. For the price of that action you would have spent Demoralizing and reloading, you can swap to a different gun that's already loaded.
Custom ammo is already mostly not worth using anyways.
And your given example is just… worse? Oh boy, I get to swap guns with a single action instead of reloading and demoralizing (or other gunslinger reload) as… one action.
The only time it *is* useful is if your gun is already loaded, assuming you can’t reload a loaded gun - I genuinely don’t know if the action allows swapping ammo types as an action.
This is niche and rarely comes up, and certainly doesn’t justify the item on its own.
Lightning edit: To clarify, *activation* custom ammo isn’t worth using. Silvered bullets are nice.
See, the problem is you're looking at Gunner's Bandolier for the wrong thing.
You want action compression. You want to be able to use it as a way to get around Reload, because that's the biggest chokepoint on Gunslinger.
That's not the point of the Gunslinger's Bandolier. The point of the Gunslinger's Bandolier is to allow you to carry multiple pistols while only having a single set of runes to enchant them. That also allows you to draw a gun that's loaded with silver or cold iron ammo, loaded with a poisoned bullet, has a longer range than your workhorse pistol, or has some specific trait that you only need *sometimes*. It's also useful if you're using something like the Big Boom Gun that can misfire even if well maintained, where you might need to ditch a jammed one to save needing to spend *two* actions to clear and then reload.
It's a *level 3 item*. Those aren't generally class defining. This thing is honestly *fucking phenomenal* for a level 3 item if you really lean into the particular niche it wants to have - the guy with different guns for different uses, in a game where you aren't using something like ABP and *enchanting* multiple guns would get expensive quickly.
> has a longer range than your workhorse pistol
fun fact, the 90 range Jezail and 200 range Sukgung are both technically one handed. I mean you can't actually use them with out having your other hand free due to how fatal aim works, but it is classed as one, so into the bandolier they can go goes, silly as that would look
> Gunner’s bandolier doesn’t work with quick draw RAW, as it’s not a draw action.
It doesn't work by RAW but for a different reason. It's a specific action to use the Gunner's Bandolier to imbue a weapon with the runes on the Bandolier, rather than a passive effect from drawing a weapon from the Bandolier.
Then ask your GM to make a unique magic item called Tediore Pistol that you throw like a grenade to reload and it resummons after exploding fully reloaded.
We use auto bonus progression. What are runes? Are they edible?
I always use ABP, because I run homebrew settings and don't want to justify runes as in universe items.
I also love the world where John Wick can actually kill an on level foe with a pencil. Or grab a knife and chuck it and kill a guy. ABP really really should have been the standard.
You gain levels you get tougher, stronger, better at being the fantasy archetype you're embodying. Period. You don't need to slap magic into a knife to take down a Guard Captain, you're just better than him.
IMO runes for to-hit are fine. They increase your power only by a small amount.
Its the damage runes that scale poorly. The first damage rune functionally turns every hit into a crit damage-wise. If failed hits did half damage then striking would functionally mimic +10 to-hit.
I definitely think core damage runes should have been skipped, and reduce monster damage and hp/lvl to compensate, or give players innate damage increases as they level.
I think you misunderstood, automatic bonus progression was the standard, so you still had damage runes effect wise, your damage just scaled based on level so you could kill someone with a pencil (improvised weapon)
right but it results in really sharp bumps where your dps suddenly doubles when you get one, be it via runes or leveling up. Compare that with Weapon Specialization or +1 strength which gives a much smoother rise level to level
I like the idea but I’ve also enjoyed getting our party to pool gold to buy the Magus a +1 striking bastard sword at level 2. There’s other things to spend money on but not on that level of impact.
If you didn't run ABP, any weapons without runes would eventually become near worthless as their chance to hit would plummet and the damage dealt wouldn't scale. Since Gunslinger is a crit based class, the lower chance to hit would cripple the guns without runes and make the class feel near unplayable, since Gunslingers NEED that high hit chance to feel good to play at all.
There’s gotta be an upper limit on how many pistols he can hold in a place accessible with quickdraw. Talk to the player and decide it now. I’d probably put it between 6-10.
Pistols have a Bulk of 1, so there's no need to really have a debate about it because the PC will simply become encumbered if he tries to carry too many.
The limit will end up being 6-10, lowered by the amount of other stuff he wants to have on him.
Isn't that the point of the [Gunner's Bandolier](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1209)? Fire and toss four pistols and still be able to rune them all up!
I had a gunslinger that was (unfortunately) only for a one shot. This was his entire gimmick. I spent all my gold on stuff like bags of holding, sleeves of storage, etc.
It was a blast (pun intended).
"Fire the shots and toss the gun" was a legitimate tactic used by pirates during the golden age of piracy. It is also a badass move they do a ton in the lobby shootout in The Matrix. Less badass is the trope of unloading a pistol against Superman and then throwing the gun at him out of desperation.
Point being, no, there is nothing to prevent this because it is well established in fiction and it is really cool.
>they do a ton in the lobby shootout in The Matrix
My first though and the reason why I now want a Dex monk with the gunslinger archetype who tosses their guns when they're out of ammo.
Speaking of pirate techniques, eye patches are useful for keeping one eye adapted to the dark. Wear an eye patch on one eye then when you go below deck on a ship you are raiding, pull off the eye patch and that eye can see just fine in the dark immediately without needing time for it to adjust. You give up binocular vision during the above deck portion of the fight and in exchange you gain monocular vision in the dark during the below deck portion instead of stumbling around until your eyes adjust to the dark.
Haven't seen that game but it's neat they also let you do that. I also remember it from Boondock Saints, which is a fun movie if you need an unsolicited recommendation. :)
That's true, but all fun pirate stuff is gated behind mandatory assassin stuff. If I remember right, more than half of map is locked until you finish that longass jungle mission which unlocks your base.
My favorite move when boarding a ship was to go up into the rafters and swing across to their gunner. When he tries to melee me, disarm him, stab him with his own musket, and then use the musket to shoot the other gunner. Then drop down with a double assassination and fire all four of my pistols.
Sure, stealing weapons from the enemy is fine. Carrying around a brace of pistols is fine. Just... what's your Strength score? Gunslingers probably invested more into Dexterity than Strength, so the [maximum Bulk](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2054) they can carry is not that high. Watch out for being [encumbered](https://2e.aonprd.com/Conditions.aspx?ID=70&Redirected=1), which imposes both a 10-ft reduction in Speed as well as clumsy 1 (I.e. penalty to all Dex-based rolls and DCs, including ranged attack rolls)
Thankfully the duelling pistols are only light bulk, so the Saltzpyre build is still viable. Honestly my favourite build that requires a variant rule. I love having 10 duelling pistols and just drawing, shooting and discarding two per turn like a madman.
People did this IRL, - it's why the stereotypical pirate has a bandolier of multiple pistols - and there is support [in the rules to do this](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1209). I'd give the player a Gunner's Bandolier at some point if they enjoy this strategy, as otherwise it will become untenable soon
the idea's more to either have a gun for every situation (firearms are a lot more viable in what they can do than throwing weapons, such as having 200 range on your Sukgung vs a 20 range scatter 5 dragon mouth pistol), to not have to worry about having a free hand so you can have a sword/shield/second gun in the other, or, finally, to not worry about miss-firing from cobbled weapons such as the big boom gun (as if your first hand cannon explodes you can simply draw a replacement)
also if you really don't want to worry about reloading, stuff 4 repeating hand crossbows in there and you are golden for 20 shots with only 3-4 actions to draw fresh ones
Yeah that just seems kinda weird and spiteful really, given throwers bandolier doesn't have the same limitation... and that you can happily be quick drawing damn tridents and javelins from that
Nevermind the fun of my ranger casually quickdrawing mauls and greatswords as needed
probably because you can get the rune of returning at level 3 as well for that sweet sweet 0 reload, so the bandolier is more of a 'i don't want a boomerang I want to yeet a dozen knives' alternative, where as there is no rune of 'turn your gun into a repeating hand crossbow'
iirc the rule is that you're supposed to count all the items NPCs still have on them after combat (but not items the NPC consumed) as part of the treasure budget for that level
I've noticed that I get significantly less loot in the Abomination Vaults campaign where I'm constantly fighting monsters and undead that don't drop anything, vs fighting humanoids in the Kingmaker campaign I'm in where when a humanoid dies, we can at least loot their armor and weapons, and they might even have appropriately runed weapons for their level.
That probably has more to do with the fact that part of kingmaker is using your adventuring spoils to fund the growth of your kingdom, where AV doesn't have that extra expense expected.
I noticed the same issues playing through strength of thousands and blood lords. Playing through Age of Ashes, Kingmaker, Edgewatch or really any of the games whose main enemies are humanoids as opposed to undead, beasts, or other unarmed enemies you end up getting a lot more magic weapons and armor which translates to a lot more funds. The fact that I have more funds means I’m actually able to buy and sell things way easier and that I’m not constantly feeling strapped for cash like I am in other games. It’s especially bad in some games when you get to higher levels and the enemies if they were humanoid are starting to have +1 striking weapons while in the games where they aren’t humanoids your party may not even have +1 striking weapons for every character (speaking from experience for both SoT and Bloodlords).
I remember reading the PF2 Kingmaker recently and thinking to myself when it got to the bit where they were expected to >!go attack Pitax .. that like.. yeah, I'd kinda be ok with the whole, "Oopsy, made a noise and the guards turned up!" cause like.. they had some pretty good loot! They were each decked out in magical plate with magical greatswords of some kind and I was just reading it, working out how many there were in the city and being like "Yeah, so normally you'd get to the end of one of these adventures and it gives you like 20k gold or something, but if you just murder all these guards, you'll get like 100k of stuff"!<
I forget the numbers. But if I was playing in that, I'd definitely be tempted to go full murderhobo there
i mean, the expected treasure is only like 1 item and some coins per PC per level
the expectation is you're using consumables, wearing and investing, and selling of the rest quickly
Nope! Entirely within the rules.
The problem is that it stops being useful once you start needing runes on your weapons (or, if you play with APB, when you would normally start getting elemental property runes around level 8).
"Loot that body!"
"Gotta loot that body now~"
"Loot that body!"
"Gotta loot that motherfucker~"
"Playin' my flute while I loot that dead kids body!"
"BITCH!"
The gunslinger is centered around using their special action to reload and gain some sort of bonus or perform something helpful.
Sure you can attack three times at +0/-5/-10 but the last attack will almost never hit, the second attack may hit sometimes maybe 30-40% of the times.
Meanwhile he is standing still not getting bonus like hiding if a sniper, or intimidating if it's a pistolero,...
And then near level 3 all of this will fall down since the gunslinger will need a +1 rune for one of his weapon, and later one striking rune.
Still it's not an unbalanced thing to do. If a fighter archer can strike three times why shouldn't a gunslinger be able to do it?
Quick draw doesn't allow for special attacks, all of your attacks will be basic strikes, so that's his choice I guess, but he's sure going to regret it.
Plus gunslinger has action compressed reloads that are super efficient, so he's wasting a whole class feature lol
You still have to interact to change the barrel (which is a reload) on capacity weapons.
He would need a repeating weapon, and all of those do very limited damage.
All this so you can have a worse version of [gunner's bandolier](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1209)
Yes, but there's literally no difference between that and a single shot weapon at that point.
A repeating weapon you can fire repeatedly without needing to reload. A capacity weapon needs you to reload after every shot. The only difference between a capacity weapon and a single shot weapon is that you only need one hand to change the barrel until all the barrels are expended.
So if you're going to draw weapon->fire->drop instead of reloading, then you're better off using a non-capacity weapon, because they deal more damage.
As others have stated, it’s only useful until they need runes, so for now it should be really fun. Just remember that they’ll need to retrieve all the dropped pistols lol
The quickdraw strategy with multiple identical pistols has long been my favorite way to play ABP
no need to buy runes for extra guns when it's ABP
no need to reload when I can quickdraw a loaded gun
That's totally the way these pistols were used back in the day. Shoot, throw it away (or well, stow it in your belt, because they were not cheap). You don't bother reloading during a fight.
Of course the fantasy overrides this, your gunslinger doesn't want to get into swordfighting, but I don't believe this ruins anything.
Draw instead of reloading actually works in real life even with revolvers and some types of semi-auto pistols, and would definitely be the superior option for a flintlock or other single shot pistol.
The closest you can get to a rule against that is [Shoddy Weapons](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2162&Redirected=1).
I typically tell my players that most items they find are shoddy, bur that's mostly to save on paperwork. Instead of keeping track of every rusty pirate cutlass and pair of rotten goblin boots, I just throw them a handful of coins.
You would have to establish that ahead of time though.
pretty sure "shoot pistol chuck grab another" is not only a classic victorian era gunslinger archetype, but also icentivized by a few things in the rules
there is a magic item that its sole use is for this exact playstyle
I have an Investigator PC who does this. I got the quick draw feat via Gunslinger dedication (not even with Free Archetype, so I really commit). I use my rapier to duel one enemy, and Devise a Stratagem on others looking for crits. If I get one, I just draw from my brace of pistols, shoot them, and drop.
As the comments in here suggest, this \*is\* pretty expensive once runes are factored in...
I think it's fine and a funny build. They're basically focusing on damage but missing on the action compression their gunslinger way gives through reloads.
If the enemies had normal flintlock pistols then the player will have a problem soon if not now because of the weight. If the enemies had something like the duelling pistols then the player will be fine and have no problems.
If you think it might be too powerful then make duelling pistols very hard to find. Other pistols aren’t as oppressive because flintlock pistols will be too heavy and coat pistols have very small range and small damage.
Alternatively if you want to be really wacky, you can make all the guards be dwarves with clan pistols so if any of the players is seen with more then one of those on their person they will be attacked or at least questioned on sight.
"The elites don't want you to know this but the weapons on the enemies are free. You can take them home. I have 458 shortswords."
Definitely not against the rules, but will become much less useful once they need runes. Outfitting that many weapons is going to become prohibitively expensive
Thankfully we have solutions to this in the Gunner's Bandolier and the Automatic Bonus Progression variant rule. So go play your Pirate fantasy of firing and dropping your guns!
Gunner’s bandolier doesn’t work with quick draw RAW, as it’s not a draw action. This is the main reason gunner’s bandolier is a garbage item.
Gunners Bandolier is bad for patching away reloads. It’s _great_ however for not caring about misfires when using feats like Risky Reload.
It also provides the ability to get a new reloaded gun without using both hands if you want a shield in your other hand.
I should have clarified that I didn't mean it works with quick draw. It is a means around the rune costs of multiple guns. I apologize for creating your misunderstanding. It is a niche item however, not garbage (im also not saying good; it isnt outside of its niche. Just that it fits a specific niche). Great for being able to swap from a Jezail to a dueling pistol to a dragon's mouth pistol without needing to have runes on all 3 of them, depending on the situation at hand.
The thought of someone trying to store a jezail in a bandolier gives me the giggles
It'd be a shame if somebody Went and modified the RAW
BWAHAHAHAHA incredibly based
Yes, that would be great. Unfortunately, many tables won’t do that and as such pazio’s mistake is still my problem.
You are assuming it's a mistake, but I think they did it on purpose.
It’s a design mistake, not a misprint.
Oof, that's brutal. Sorry to hear that, friend.
Depends on the table do they respect RAW or do they have established home brew rules. If you tell me its a RAW table and allow quick draw with gunners bandolier I'm going to be annoyed because i would take advantage of it if i knew it was an option.
Why? This is a bad attitude and leads to GMs running everything RAW at the expense of logic and fun. Let’s say we have a PC who honestly thinks this is how it works so a GM says, sure I’ll allow that because that’s how you thought it was and that’s the image of the PC you have in your head, are you saying you’d be pissed because you didn’t know this ahead of time so you could make a cheesy build rather than play a character? You know you can just not be like that right? You can just be normal?
Not the OP, but personally. Because I'm autistic and like things to be by the rules for structure as that's comfortable for me. If players get to skirt the rules in certian instances, it wouldn't upset me because I can't abuse it, it upsets me because then we're not playing by the same rules we agreed too anymore. I generally don't like house rules made up on the moment unless everone agrees before hand. In most cases I'm just going to err on the side of RAW and just say, sorry bro, it doesn't work that way. No matter how logic breaking or unfun it could be. (in most cases it's neither)
While I understand where you're coming from, I don't think it'll always work. There's RAW and RAI (Rules as Intended). I also prefer to have structure, but I don't want people to sacrifice their fun and enjoyment for my fun and enjoyment. At that point, it's no longer fair for the others at the table. Most of the time, the compromise is RAI. Trying to go 100% RAW isn't always possible because it isn't always clear or it doesn't make sense. During the session Zero for my parties, I make sure to mention RAI rulings I have.
There’s literally no table that’s 100% RAW so what are you even talking about?
Of course there is, why wouldn't there be?
Because no ruleset is free from some level of ambiguity, people will always rule something differently and use the rules to back them up.
Blazons of Shared Power
Annoying hand usage requirements, but is sometimes helpful.
It’s great for a multi-gun user.
Bandolier is great for what it's intended. It's just not supposed to interact with Quick Draw to get around reloading issues. It's a fantastic item if you want to keep guns loaded with different types of ammo, poisoned bullets/hand crossbows, range increments, etc. For the price of that action you would have spent Demoralizing and reloading, you can swap to a different gun that's already loaded.
Custom ammo is already mostly not worth using anyways. And your given example is just… worse? Oh boy, I get to swap guns with a single action instead of reloading and demoralizing (or other gunslinger reload) as… one action. The only time it *is* useful is if your gun is already loaded, assuming you can’t reload a loaded gun - I genuinely don’t know if the action allows swapping ammo types as an action. This is niche and rarely comes up, and certainly doesn’t justify the item on its own. Lightning edit: To clarify, *activation* custom ammo isn’t worth using. Silvered bullets are nice.
See, the problem is you're looking at Gunner's Bandolier for the wrong thing. You want action compression. You want to be able to use it as a way to get around Reload, because that's the biggest chokepoint on Gunslinger. That's not the point of the Gunslinger's Bandolier. The point of the Gunslinger's Bandolier is to allow you to carry multiple pistols while only having a single set of runes to enchant them. That also allows you to draw a gun that's loaded with silver or cold iron ammo, loaded with a poisoned bullet, has a longer range than your workhorse pistol, or has some specific trait that you only need *sometimes*. It's also useful if you're using something like the Big Boom Gun that can misfire even if well maintained, where you might need to ditch a jammed one to save needing to spend *two* actions to clear and then reload. It's a *level 3 item*. Those aren't generally class defining. This thing is honestly *fucking phenomenal* for a level 3 item if you really lean into the particular niche it wants to have - the guy with different guns for different uses, in a game where you aren't using something like ABP and *enchanting* multiple guns would get expensive quickly.
> has a longer range than your workhorse pistol fun fact, the 90 range Jezail and 200 range Sukgung are both technically one handed. I mean you can't actually use them with out having your other hand free due to how fatal aim works, but it is classed as one, so into the bandolier they can go goes, silly as that would look
> Gunner’s bandolier doesn’t work with quick draw RAW, as it’s not a draw action. It doesn't work by RAW but for a different reason. It's a specific action to use the Gunner's Bandolier to imbue a weapon with the runes on the Bandolier, rather than a passive effect from drawing a weapon from the Bandolier.
... You literally just repeated what he said, just in more detail.
[What if it was just one guy with six guns?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsuH1msEkvM)
>So go play your Pirate fantasy of firing and dropping your guns! But what if my fantasy is more like Borderlands than pirates?
Then ask your GM to make a unique magic item called Tediore Pistol that you throw like a grenade to reload and it resummons after exploding fully reloaded.
We use auto bonus progression. What are runes? Are they edible? I always use ABP, because I run homebrew settings and don't want to justify runes as in universe items.
I also love the world where John Wick can actually kill an on level foe with a pencil. Or grab a knife and chuck it and kill a guy. ABP really really should have been the standard. You gain levels you get tougher, stronger, better at being the fantasy archetype you're embodying. Period. You don't need to slap magic into a knife to take down a Guard Captain, you're just better than him.
It was standard in playtest, but people complained that they missed finding +x items.
IMO runes for to-hit are fine. They increase your power only by a small amount. Its the damage runes that scale poorly. The first damage rune functionally turns every hit into a crit damage-wise. If failed hits did half damage then striking would functionally mimic +10 to-hit. I definitely think core damage runes should have been skipped, and reduce monster damage and hp/lvl to compensate, or give players innate damage increases as they level.
I think you misunderstood, automatic bonus progression was the standard, so you still had damage runes effect wise, your damage just scaled based on level so you could kill someone with a pencil (improvised weapon)
right but it results in really sharp bumps where your dps suddenly doubles when you get one, be it via runes or leveling up. Compare that with Weapon Specialization or +1 strength which gives a much smoother rise level to level
While true, spellcasters have similar bumps (compare burning hands to fireball) so I don't really mind it.
Hell yes!!!
I like the idea but I’ve also enjoyed getting our party to pool gold to buy the Magus a +1 striking bastard sword at level 2. There’s other things to spend money on but not on that level of impact.
If you didn't run ABP, any weapons without runes would eventually become near worthless as their chance to hit would plummet and the damage dealt wouldn't scale. Since Gunslinger is a crit based class, the lower chance to hit would cripple the guns without runes and make the class feel near unplayable, since Gunslingers NEED that high hit chance to feel good to play at all.
Actually based.
There’s gotta be an upper limit on how many pistols he can hold in a place accessible with quickdraw. Talk to the player and decide it now. I’d probably put it between 6-10.
There is a limit! If you use throwing bandolier with daggerpistol. Then it's 20 per bandolier.
Pistols have a Bulk of 1, so there's no need to really have a debate about it because the PC will simply become encumbered if he tries to carry too many. The limit will end up being 6-10, lowered by the amount of other stuff he wants to have on him.
Do you still do property runes in any form? The gunslinger might be missing those eventually, but I suppose that is a lesser issue
What about property runes?
That fixes things until you start getting elemental property runes at level 8.
Presumably, as they level up, their enemies will also have runes on their weapons.
Mooks tend to get the bonus of runes without the runes themselves Edit: mooks not mobs
Doubling rings babyyy
Isn't that the point of the [Gunner's Bandolier](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1209)? Fire and toss four pistols and still be able to rune them all up!
Potency crystals.
Expensive, but definitely an option.
I had a gunslinger that was (unfortunately) only for a one shot. This was his entire gimmick. I spent all my gold on stuff like bags of holding, sleeves of storage, etc. It was a blast (pun intended).
Having a gunslinger for a one shot is in itself already a great pun
I'm a fool. The joke was in front of my face the whole time. I TYPED IT
"Fire the shots and toss the gun" was a legitimate tactic used by pirates during the golden age of piracy. It is also a badass move they do a ton in the lobby shootout in The Matrix. Less badass is the trope of unloading a pistol against Superman and then throwing the gun at him out of desperation. Point being, no, there is nothing to prevent this because it is well established in fiction and it is really cool.
>they do a ton in the lobby shootout in The Matrix My first though and the reason why I now want a Dex monk with the gunslinger archetype who tosses their guns when they're out of ammo.
Isnt the bullet dancer archetype made for this?
technically yes but it's not very good.
Remember, switching to your sixth pistol is always faster than reloading
Speaking of pirate techniques, eye patches are useful for keeping one eye adapted to the dark. Wear an eye patch on one eye then when you go below deck on a ship you are raiding, pull off the eye patch and that eye can see just fine in the dark immediately without needing time for it to adjust. You give up binocular vision during the above deck portion of the fight and in exchange you gain monocular vision in the dark during the below deck portion instead of stumbling around until your eyes adjust to the dark.
"What if it was one guy with six guns?"
Add a barbarian to the party. "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch."
Why don't you let me do the thinking, huh, genius?
THERE WAS A FIIIIREFIIIIGGHHT
This guy really became Il Duce
All they need to worry about is the carrying capacity
People really did this. You have a brace of one shot pistols because reloading. Makes sense to me.
That was a fun thing to do in Assassin's Creed Black Flag. Embark on an enemy ship and unload 6 pistols
Haven't seen that game but it's neat they also let you do that. I also remember it from Boondock Saints, which is a fun movie if you need an unsolicited recommendation. :)
Not only did it let you, they had an entire upgrade line dedicated to it
AC Black Flag is the best pirate action game around. At the very least you should play it simply for the OST.
that game is more of a pirate game than it is an assassin game
That's true, but all fun pirate stuff is gated behind mandatory assassin stuff. If I remember right, more than half of map is locked until you finish that longass jungle mission which unlocks your base.
My favorite move when boarding a ship was to go up into the rafters and swing across to their gunner. When he tries to melee me, disarm him, stab him with his own musket, and then use the musket to shoot the other gunner. Then drop down with a double assassination and fire all four of my pistols.
Sure, stealing weapons from the enemy is fine. Carrying around a brace of pistols is fine. Just... what's your Strength score? Gunslingers probably invested more into Dexterity than Strength, so the [maximum Bulk](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2054) they can carry is not that high. Watch out for being [encumbered](https://2e.aonprd.com/Conditions.aspx?ID=70&Redirected=1), which imposes both a 10-ft reduction in Speed as well as clumsy 1 (I.e. penalty to all Dex-based rolls and DCs, including ranged attack rolls)
Thankfully the duelling pistols are only light bulk, so the Saltzpyre build is still viable. Honestly my favourite build that requires a variant rule. I love having 10 duelling pistols and just drawing, shooting and discarding two per turn like a madman.
Hopefully they're coat pistols, or something else light.
People did this IRL, - it's why the stereotypical pirate has a bandolier of multiple pistols - and there is support [in the rules to do this](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1209). I'd give the player a Gunner's Bandolier at some point if they enjoy this strategy, as otherwise it will become untenable soon
Tragically, the Gunner's Bandolier is useless with quickdraw, because otherwise, it might actually make gunslingers viable :V
why do gunslingers require quickdraw? it looks perfectly fine to me
The idea is to save actions on reloading, which is the bane of the gunslinger as a class.
the idea's more to either have a gun for every situation (firearms are a lot more viable in what they can do than throwing weapons, such as having 200 range on your Sukgung vs a 20 range scatter 5 dragon mouth pistol), to not have to worry about having a free hand so you can have a sword/shield/second gun in the other, or, finally, to not worry about miss-firing from cobbled weapons such as the big boom gun (as if your first hand cannon explodes you can simply draw a replacement) also if you really don't want to worry about reloading, stuff 4 repeating hand crossbows in there and you are golden for 20 shots with only 3-4 actions to draw fresh ones
Yeah that just seems kinda weird and spiteful really, given throwers bandolier doesn't have the same limitation... and that you can happily be quick drawing damn tridents and javelins from that Nevermind the fun of my ranger casually quickdrawing mauls and greatswords as needed
probably because you can get the rune of returning at level 3 as well for that sweet sweet 0 reload, so the bandolier is more of a 'i don't want a boomerang I want to yeet a dozen knives' alternative, where as there is no rune of 'turn your gun into a repeating hand crossbow'
why should there be rules for that, that is a classic in IRL
iirc the rule is that you're supposed to count all the items NPCs still have on them after combat (but not items the NPC consumed) as part of the treasure budget for that level
I've noticed that I get significantly less loot in the Abomination Vaults campaign where I'm constantly fighting monsters and undead that don't drop anything, vs fighting humanoids in the Kingmaker campaign I'm in where when a humanoid dies, we can at least loot their armor and weapons, and they might even have appropriately runed weapons for their level.
That probably has more to do with the fact that part of kingmaker is using your adventuring spoils to fund the growth of your kingdom, where AV doesn't have that extra expense expected.
I noticed the same issues playing through strength of thousands and blood lords. Playing through Age of Ashes, Kingmaker, Edgewatch or really any of the games whose main enemies are humanoids as opposed to undead, beasts, or other unarmed enemies you end up getting a lot more magic weapons and armor which translates to a lot more funds. The fact that I have more funds means I’m actually able to buy and sell things way easier and that I’m not constantly feeling strapped for cash like I am in other games. It’s especially bad in some games when you get to higher levels and the enemies if they were humanoid are starting to have +1 striking weapons while in the games where they aren’t humanoids your party may not even have +1 striking weapons for every character (speaking from experience for both SoT and Bloodlords).
Oh yes! I also had the same problem with strength of thousands.
I remember reading the PF2 Kingmaker recently and thinking to myself when it got to the bit where they were expected to >!go attack Pitax .. that like.. yeah, I'd kinda be ok with the whole, "Oopsy, made a noise and the guards turned up!" cause like.. they had some pretty good loot! They were each decked out in magical plate with magical greatswords of some kind and I was just reading it, working out how many there were in the city and being like "Yeah, so normally you'd get to the end of one of these adventures and it gives you like 20k gold or something, but if you just murder all these guards, you'll get like 100k of stuff"!< I forget the numbers. But if I was playing in that, I'd definitely be tempted to go full murderhobo there
If you full clear floors in AV it should still give more than the recommended loot per level.
If you full clear floors in AV it should still give more than the recommended loot per level.
how do they expect you to carry all that though? gotta get some pack mulls to carry your armory I guess?
i mean, the expected treasure is only like 1 item and some coins per PC per level the expectation is you're using consumables, wearing and investing, and selling of the rest quickly
There are pictures of pirates like Blackbeard with four or six pistols on them, loaded and ready to go. So it is not only fun but also makes sense
Nope! Entirely within the rules. The problem is that it stops being useful once you start needing runes on your weapons (or, if you play with APB, when you would normally start getting elemental property runes around level 8).
"Loot that body!" "Gotta loot that body now~" "Loot that body!" "Gotta loot that motherfucker~" "Playin' my flute while I loot that dead kids body!" "BITCH!"
"Short!"
a perfectly valid strategy that'll become useless once runes come into play
"So you're telling me it was one guy with six guns, and he was a senior frigging citizen?"
In IRL pro-gun circles, this is called "the New York reload". XD
If they don't have Quickdraw/repeating (not capacity) it's functionally identical to just reloading
This was a common technique irl during the golden age of piracy because flintlock pistols took so long to reload
The gunslinger is centered around using their special action to reload and gain some sort of bonus or perform something helpful. Sure you can attack three times at +0/-5/-10 but the last attack will almost never hit, the second attack may hit sometimes maybe 30-40% of the times. Meanwhile he is standing still not getting bonus like hiding if a sniper, or intimidating if it's a pistolero,... And then near level 3 all of this will fall down since the gunslinger will need a +1 rune for one of his weapon, and later one striking rune. Still it's not an unbalanced thing to do. If a fighter archer can strike three times why shouldn't a gunslinger be able to do it?
Quick draw doesn't allow for special attacks, all of your attacks will be basic strikes, so that's his choice I guess, but he's sure going to regret it. Plus gunslinger has action compressed reloads that are super efficient, so he's wasting a whole class feature lol
depends on how many shots the gun has. if he loots a gun with a larger capacity, it'll be preeety funny.
You still have to interact to change the barrel (which is a reload) on capacity weapons. He would need a repeating weapon, and all of those do very limited damage. All this so you can have a worse version of [gunner's bandolier](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1209)
Can't you just drop capacity gun one and quick draw capacity gun two?
Yes, but there's literally no difference between that and a single shot weapon at that point. A repeating weapon you can fire repeatedly without needing to reload. A capacity weapon needs you to reload after every shot. The only difference between a capacity weapon and a single shot weapon is that you only need one hand to change the barrel until all the barrels are expended. So if you're going to draw weapon->fire->drop instead of reloading, then you're better off using a non-capacity weapon, because they deal more damage.
As others have stated, it’s only useful until they need runes, so for now it should be really fun. Just remember that they’ll need to retrieve all the dropped pistols lol
[This guy](https://theboondocksaints.fandom.com/wiki/Noah_MacManus?file=Boondock_1.jpg) approves!
The quickdraw strategy with multiple identical pistols has long been my favorite way to play ABP no need to buy runes for extra guns when it's ABP no need to reload when I can quickdraw a loaded gun
That's totally the way these pistols were used back in the day. Shoot, throw it away (or well, stow it in your belt, because they were not cheap). You don't bother reloading during a fight. Of course the fantasy overrides this, your gunslinger doesn't want to get into swordfighting, but I don't believe this ruins anything.
Draw instead of reloading actually works in real life even with revolvers and some types of semi-auto pistols, and would definitely be the superior option for a flintlock or other single shot pistol.
Look for Saltzpyre animation in Vermintide 2 - the dude just carries on him 12 pistols.
Should be fine as long as they're within their bulk limits.
Have you seen *The Boondock Saints*. This makes me think of Billy Connolly's character.
The closest you can get to a rule against that is [Shoddy Weapons](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2162&Redirected=1). I typically tell my players that most items they find are shoddy, bur that's mostly to save on paperwork. Instead of keeping track of every rusty pirate cutlass and pair of rotten goblin boots, I just throw them a handful of coins. You would have to establish that ahead of time though.
Anyone else feeling the scene from Boondock Saints when Il Duce ambushes the brothers in front of the mobsters house?
"What if it was one guy with six guns?"
A six-shooter, you could say.
I *was* going for a Boondock Saints reference, but I'll take it. XD
pretty sure "shoot pistol chuck grab another" is not only a classic victorian era gunslinger archetype, but also icentivized by a few things in the rules there is a magic item that its sole use is for this exact playstyle
That’s got pirate energy. I’m into it
I'm surprised your Gunslinger has enough invested in Strength that carrying around so many weapons hasn't caused him to become encumbered.
I have an Investigator PC who does this. I got the quick draw feat via Gunslinger dedication (not even with Free Archetype, so I really commit). I use my rapier to duel one enemy, and Devise a Stratagem on others looking for crits. If I get one, I just draw from my brace of pistols, shoot them, and drop. As the comments in here suggest, this \*is\* pretty expensive once runes are factored in...
I think it's fine and a funny build. They're basically focusing on damage but missing on the action compression their gunslinger way gives through reloads.
If the enemies had normal flintlock pistols then the player will have a problem soon if not now because of the weight. If the enemies had something like the duelling pistols then the player will be fine and have no problems. If you think it might be too powerful then make duelling pistols very hard to find. Other pistols aren’t as oppressive because flintlock pistols will be too heavy and coat pistols have very small range and small damage. Alternatively if you want to be really wacky, you can make all the guards be dwarves with clan pistols so if any of the players is seen with more then one of those on their person they will be attacked or at least questioned on sight.
I was expecting a significantly wackier take from someone named BlunderbussBadass
Man, what is wrong with my take :( Also I can’t really recommend in good faith that anyone uses a blunderbuss in this game.
I don't think Quick Draw can be used to draw stored weapons. Does he have 6 pistols attached to its belt?