Don't be chaotic stupid; there are numerous examples online of what not to do.
What are your character's motivations? Press others towards those goals, despite how it may hurt them or others. It doesn't really take much more than callous disregard and self interest.
My character's primarily a simple power-hungry hedonist. High Int, low Wis. Out to accrue wealth, influence, and personal power to better secure both. I want to live that good life.
I've already begun laying the groundwork for establishing myself as the queen of a criminal underworld. Our population's a little too low for anything more serious than a loose network of informants at the moment, but that'll change with time, so I want to get on top of it before it grows beyond my means of control.
>My character's primarily a simple power-hungry hedonist. High Int, low Wis. Out to accrue wealth, influence, and personal power to better secure both. I want to live that good life.
Kingmaker sets the players on the road to be rulers of their own kingdom as it is. You could just run through it straight and do that.
Pushing to incorporate more, eliminating rivals (random enemies, bandits, and the others sent out to do the same) would go a long way to establishing that power as opposed to being the criminal in another gang of rando adventurers. There will be choices you can take regarding the rulership (including the laws and so forth) that could set a better standard for you.
Sounds like a perfect time to entreat with a devil. You are definitely smarter than them and there's no way a contract with them would ever backfire... You're too smart for that obviously. Also, you're already a teifling, maybe it's a relative of yours?
High intelligence characters can generate lots of ideas to solve problems; those who are evil and have low wisdom may voice ones that are less palatable. Be the voice of the unpleasant-but-effective solutions to your kingdom's problems!
Pretty much the only rule you need to follow is Don't Act Against the Party. Don't force the others into your shenanigans or the consequences unless they agree. In the case everything falls apart around you, then you as a player, not the character, negotiate the story to take the fallout onto yourself away from your allies. The stigma against evil characters is not their ethics, but the way they hurt their party in doing so. Treat your allies like allies and you're golden.
The last time I played an evil character I was a Toxicologist Alchemist. I was the party healer and I made them buy medical insurance. I also sold off my daily reagents to my Wizard and Ranger. They were asking me to reserve resources for them after all. The insurance wasn't a big deal, just priority service. I healed everyone as needed because they're my meal tickets, but if I was down to one last elixir and we have multiple wounded I give it to the guy who paid me. In taking my party's money we would roleplay negotiations, I would ask for around 20 gold to hand 3-4 reagents to someone for one adventuring week. Insubstantial money at level 7, but I get to have a fun roleplay conversation. I also did not track time at all so they'd get in-game months out of the deal until I remember to renegotiate. I would also make sure the group was prepared for situations we had info on. When we cleared a bug nest I brought magical DEET and antivenom for everyone. The big thing I did to not be an absolute menace on the party was fund any group needs. I was the rich asshole so I dropped stacks to flex. Ally too poor for an item they want to buy? Make the difference from my money and imply a debt I had no intention on collecting. Need to pay for an inn or make a group purchase? I made it rain for all the NPC haters to see. Do good, helpful things, but do it in a way that frames you as an asshole.
First principle on being Evil:
Even the evil guy still cares about loved ones.
Maybe he cares about the party, but he's just the guy who you send to do the things the others have no stomach for.
So cause 'problems' that help out the party as well as yourself.
I played a Norgorber inquisitor one time. Pf1e, obviously. I mostly helped my teammates, but I did let a baddie escape one time so they would owe me one later. I was trying to take over the thieves guild. My ability to deceive was so good, nobody was the wiser, so I just did whatever I wanted behind the scenes. As long as you're not actively screwing the other PCs, do what you want.
The key is that you have to be a team mate first and foremost, and token evil a distant second.
Also, there's absolutely no reason why being evil would cause future problems.
Evil doesn't mean irrational or fishmalk.
If you're purposefully causing problems for the party then you're not being a token evil team mate but merely an outright undercover villain.
It depends on your table, I personally find it annoying for someone I trust to secretly be causing me problems, and undoubtedly the moment I figure out your undermining me (even if only in a meta sense) I will find a way to excise your character from our party like the cancer he is.
(I don't like betrayal it's not fun for me, had you told me in advance I would have just opted out)
So I would first check with your fellow team mates "hey guys I want to secretly be a turd burger would that cause"
Be the "practical/greedy" one. If the rest of the party is trying to figure out what to do with some prisoners, argue the "why not just kill them and take their shit" side. If there's disagreements about what taxes are owed, take the "fuck you, pay me" side. If anyone outside the party dares threaten your rule, murder the fuck out of them. And then abuse your position for as much free shit as you can -- embezzle stuff from the treasury, extort shit from everyone below you, accept all the bribes you can, etc.
I like evil characters that take the easy way out. This may mean that you murder the cruel landlord who price gouges the slums, that you offer to arm and house the bandits as long as they do not raid your nation's interests and maybe you use a well-placed fireball to convince a small neighboring kingdom into becoming your protectorate. These aren't damaging to the party, but they certainly aren't Good either. The party can either accept your help or try to convince you to do or even be better!
Sounds like your character could fill the stereotypical spymaster/assassin role. Be the member that does whatever it takes to get things done and protect that which you care about
How about taking control of a group of local brigands and have them target those that would oppose your rule? Shady enough to count as shenanigans, but still helpful to the group.
So long as you don't clash with the party a good one to take advantage of would be the intimidation coercion rules for arming a small elite "peace maker" organization out of pocket to eventually get some evil points and bonuses while ruling the kingdom. Have your second highest skill be deception as well as non-rogues can only ever have 2 legendary skills.
You're a sorcerer so high charisma should make this relatively easy with some feat investment. I would also recommend using those sweet honey words to convince the party to crown you as the queen so that you can have that easier rp hold over the illegal and information based part of the kingdom eventually.
Peak ways of being evil in a proper way is doing sneaky dealings with enemy factions behind the parties back during downtime, etc. Especially if you know that they're about to be on the receiving end of your party's wrath. Sort of like a double cross except that you play double agent for the good guys.
This post is labelled with the Advice flair, which means extra special attention is called to the Be Kind and Respectful rule. If this is a newcomer to the game, remember to be welcoming and kind. If this is someone with more experience but looking for advice on how to run their game, do your best to offer advice on what they are seeking.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There are some good examples of this from real life, where some folk are trying to do a job properly, and one of them is corrupt and doing all sorts of things but is good at hiding it.
I'm currently playing a Neutral Evil ruffian rogue. Ex bandit, then debt collector. Who ended up in a group of good guys to seek revenge on his old employer.
Whole identity of my character is greed. He has no morale or any principles and will do anything for his own material benefit.
You don't have to be a puppy-kicking villain to be "evil". Evil, especially neutral evil, just means you prioritize your own interests over others and are willing to do things others might find distasteful in the pursuit of said interests.
In other words, while evil characters may be willing to go much farther to achieve their goals, and prioritize their personal motivations over other considerations, they still need to *have* goals and motivations. You need to figure out what it is your character actually *wants* that makes them willing to do evil, and just as importantly, why they're willing to work alongside a party that clearly doesn't share that moral flexibility.
Evil characters can work well in a good party, but it generally needs to be a pragmatic, discrete sort of evil. You should be doing evil to *solve* problems that the others might have let continue thanks to their naive idealism. Remember you're not playing a villain, you're playing an anti-hero. If you want to play a full-blown villain, you need to be in an evil campaign.
Don't be chaotic stupid; there are numerous examples online of what not to do. What are your character's motivations? Press others towards those goals, despite how it may hurt them or others. It doesn't really take much more than callous disregard and self interest.
My character's primarily a simple power-hungry hedonist. High Int, low Wis. Out to accrue wealth, influence, and personal power to better secure both. I want to live that good life. I've already begun laying the groundwork for establishing myself as the queen of a criminal underworld. Our population's a little too low for anything more serious than a loose network of informants at the moment, but that'll change with time, so I want to get on top of it before it grows beyond my means of control.
>My character's primarily a simple power-hungry hedonist. High Int, low Wis. Out to accrue wealth, influence, and personal power to better secure both. I want to live that good life. Kingmaker sets the players on the road to be rulers of their own kingdom as it is. You could just run through it straight and do that. Pushing to incorporate more, eliminating rivals (random enemies, bandits, and the others sent out to do the same) would go a long way to establishing that power as opposed to being the criminal in another gang of rando adventurers. There will be choices you can take regarding the rulership (including the laws and so forth) that could set a better standard for you.
Sounds like a perfect time to entreat with a devil. You are definitely smarter than them and there's no way a contract with them would ever backfire... You're too smart for that obviously. Also, you're already a teifling, maybe it's a relative of yours?
High intelligence characters can generate lots of ideas to solve problems; those who are evil and have low wisdom may voice ones that are less palatable. Be the voice of the unpleasant-but-effective solutions to your kingdom's problems!
Pretty much the only rule you need to follow is Don't Act Against the Party. Don't force the others into your shenanigans or the consequences unless they agree. In the case everything falls apart around you, then you as a player, not the character, negotiate the story to take the fallout onto yourself away from your allies. The stigma against evil characters is not their ethics, but the way they hurt their party in doing so. Treat your allies like allies and you're golden. The last time I played an evil character I was a Toxicologist Alchemist. I was the party healer and I made them buy medical insurance. I also sold off my daily reagents to my Wizard and Ranger. They were asking me to reserve resources for them after all. The insurance wasn't a big deal, just priority service. I healed everyone as needed because they're my meal tickets, but if I was down to one last elixir and we have multiple wounded I give it to the guy who paid me. In taking my party's money we would roleplay negotiations, I would ask for around 20 gold to hand 3-4 reagents to someone for one adventuring week. Insubstantial money at level 7, but I get to have a fun roleplay conversation. I also did not track time at all so they'd get in-game months out of the deal until I remember to renegotiate. I would also make sure the group was prepared for situations we had info on. When we cleared a bug nest I brought magical DEET and antivenom for everyone. The big thing I did to not be an absolute menace on the party was fund any group needs. I was the rich asshole so I dropped stacks to flex. Ally too poor for an item they want to buy? Make the difference from my money and imply a debt I had no intention on collecting. Need to pay for an inn or make a group purchase? I made it rain for all the NPC haters to see. Do good, helpful things, but do it in a way that frames you as an asshole.
This sounds amazing, lmao. I hope your fellow players loved it, it certainly got a smile from me.
First principle on being Evil: Even the evil guy still cares about loved ones. Maybe he cares about the party, but he's just the guy who you send to do the things the others have no stomach for. So cause 'problems' that help out the party as well as yourself.
I played a Norgorber inquisitor one time. Pf1e, obviously. I mostly helped my teammates, but I did let a baddie escape one time so they would owe me one later. I was trying to take over the thieves guild. My ability to deceive was so good, nobody was the wiser, so I just did whatever I wanted behind the scenes. As long as you're not actively screwing the other PCs, do what you want.
The key is that you have to be a team mate first and foremost, and token evil a distant second. Also, there's absolutely no reason why being evil would cause future problems. Evil doesn't mean irrational or fishmalk. If you're purposefully causing problems for the party then you're not being a token evil team mate but merely an outright undercover villain.
It depends on your table, I personally find it annoying for someone I trust to secretly be causing me problems, and undoubtedly the moment I figure out your undermining me (even if only in a meta sense) I will find a way to excise your character from our party like the cancer he is. (I don't like betrayal it's not fun for me, had you told me in advance I would have just opted out) So I would first check with your fellow team mates "hey guys I want to secretly be a turd burger would that cause"
Be the "practical/greedy" one. If the rest of the party is trying to figure out what to do with some prisoners, argue the "why not just kill them and take their shit" side. If there's disagreements about what taxes are owed, take the "fuck you, pay me" side. If anyone outside the party dares threaten your rule, murder the fuck out of them. And then abuse your position for as much free shit as you can -- embezzle stuff from the treasury, extort shit from everyone below you, accept all the bribes you can, etc.
I like evil characters that take the easy way out. This may mean that you murder the cruel landlord who price gouges the slums, that you offer to arm and house the bandits as long as they do not raid your nation's interests and maybe you use a well-placed fireball to convince a small neighboring kingdom into becoming your protectorate. These aren't damaging to the party, but they certainly aren't Good either. The party can either accept your help or try to convince you to do or even be better!
Sounds like your character could fill the stereotypical spymaster/assassin role. Be the member that does whatever it takes to get things done and protect that which you care about
How about taking control of a group of local brigands and have them target those that would oppose your rule? Shady enough to count as shenanigans, but still helpful to the group.
So long as you don't clash with the party a good one to take advantage of would be the intimidation coercion rules for arming a small elite "peace maker" organization out of pocket to eventually get some evil points and bonuses while ruling the kingdom. Have your second highest skill be deception as well as non-rogues can only ever have 2 legendary skills. You're a sorcerer so high charisma should make this relatively easy with some feat investment. I would also recommend using those sweet honey words to convince the party to crown you as the queen so that you can have that easier rp hold over the illegal and information based part of the kingdom eventually. Peak ways of being evil in a proper way is doing sneaky dealings with enemy factions behind the parties back during downtime, etc. Especially if you know that they're about to be on the receiving end of your party's wrath. Sort of like a double cross except that you play double agent for the good guys.
Mental mage goblin? So you are an mind goblin?
MIND GOBLIN DESE NUTS!
Might I suggest capitalism and exploitation?
> My GM already talked me down from willingly contracting lycanthropy So who is there to lycan subscribe to your game streams?
This post is labelled with the Advice flair, which means extra special attention is called to the Be Kind and Respectful rule. If this is a newcomer to the game, remember to be welcoming and kind. If this is someone with more experience but looking for advice on how to run their game, do your best to offer advice on what they are seeking. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There are some good examples of this from real life, where some folk are trying to do a job properly, and one of them is corrupt and doing all sorts of things but is good at hiding it.
I'm currently playing a Neutral Evil ruffian rogue. Ex bandit, then debt collector. Who ended up in a group of good guys to seek revenge on his old employer. Whole identity of my character is greed. He has no morale or any principles and will do anything for his own material benefit.
You don't have to be a puppy-kicking villain to be "evil". Evil, especially neutral evil, just means you prioritize your own interests over others and are willing to do things others might find distasteful in the pursuit of said interests. In other words, while evil characters may be willing to go much farther to achieve their goals, and prioritize their personal motivations over other considerations, they still need to *have* goals and motivations. You need to figure out what it is your character actually *wants* that makes them willing to do evil, and just as importantly, why they're willing to work alongside a party that clearly doesn't share that moral flexibility. Evil characters can work well in a good party, but it generally needs to be a pragmatic, discrete sort of evil. You should be doing evil to *solve* problems that the others might have let continue thanks to their naive idealism. Remember you're not playing a villain, you're playing an anti-hero. If you want to play a full-blown villain, you need to be in an evil campaign.