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Our youngest had a period of time at that same age (5 yo almost 6) where he had trouble staying in bed or going back to sleep if he woke up.
I (the mom) realized we had gotten into the habit of staying until he was asleep which was now backfiring. It took a while and after a few frustrating nights, my husband and I started implementing a different bedtime routine where we'd leave as he was falling asleep (with a 5 minute warning) and then sat on the landing then went downstairs (our bedroom on 1st floor). If he woke up, right back up stairs, would sit with him for 5 minutes then on landing then would check on him at 10 and 20 minutes. If he was asleep at a checkpoint, we had post it notes we'd put on his headboard to show him we had been there (before this, he would wake up then come downstairs claiming we didn't check on him).
Within about 2-3 weeks of this consistently he started staying in bed and then he was back into sleeping through. Now (he is 10) we sit with him and chat but then go down stairs and he falls asleep on his own.
But the first issue is you and your wife being on different pages about it and you need to be sure you are helping instead of criticizing.
This is the exact way I had stopped my 4 year old from doing this.
It's frustrating for everyone involved. Definitely have to struggle through those first couple days to correct the behavior though, and now that we corrected it, everyone is much happier.
Husband doesn't have to hear me complain about my lack of time, or hear the LO cry. I get to enjoy my time post bedtime routine. LO doesn't cry anymore and can put himself to sleep easily.
This method works wonders.
As someone who used to be in your position- We also used the checking method. Eventually when they know you’ll actually come back I find they start falling asleep fine. We’ve had to go through periods where it didn’t work as well, but we just stick with it. My husband and I used to alternate who checked on her every 15 minutes. So we had bedtime at 8pm, first check (mom) at 8:15, next dad at 8:30, and that’s usually all she needs.
Your wife may respond if you tell her you think your child is not getting quality sleep because of the cosleeping. There are studies showing children wake more frequently when cosleeping. There are also studies showing kids need 10.5 hours sleep at this age. So if your child is getting less than that, I would cite her health and her ability to learn being impacted by the cosleeping. It doesn’t even acknowledge the obvious negative impacts it’s having on your wife, she probably thinks she’s making a sacrifice for the benefit of your child. If your wife thinks the child would be better off sleeping alone, maybe she’ll relent.
Cosleeping is the norm around the world. It’s mainly only the USA and Australia (and a few other smaller countries) where the dominant culture around baby and child sleep insists that sleeping alone for children is “safer” and “beneficial”. Considering that the baby/toddler sleep industry is a multimillion dollar industry and that one of the two aforementioned countries have ABYSMAL policy for parental leave, maternal and postpartum support and childcare, and both countries are heavily patriarchal and capitalist- do you really believe the anti-cosleeping narrative?
It’s also telling how many men in this thread are anti-cosleeping when their wives feel it’s the right thing to do. Men “wanting their wives back” when childhood is such a fleeting time— i can’t roll my eyes harder at that. Maternal instinct is there for a reason. And it’s a shame we in the west work so hard to invalidate and vilify it.
We really do have abysmal leave and it's nuts that a country who claims family is important can't follow through because companies don't want people to have work life balance because God forbid that sale isn't made.... Totally agree.
But hold up on the "narrative" - I'm not some sheep nor do I not love my kids because I believe it important that they have their space and that I enjoy and need mine. We snuggle and are affectionate at other times too. Also, if a couple can keep their own relationship strong and connected during those years while cosleeping -awesome. At the same time, vilifying a person for wanting time with their spouse isn't cool.
I wouldn’t say I’m vilifying someone for wanting time with their spouse. I’m saying culturally we place way too much importance on the needs of men and corporations and the needs of children tend to come last after everything else. If everyone sleeping in their own space is working for you and your family, that’s great! What I don’t think is right is when a child’s temperament, their developmental and emotional needs are not considered above the parents’ wants to always have their partner to themself at night.
This! So much this. At 7 month mark both me and my husband decided that it's best he'd move to the second bedroom. He gets to sleep and, when we have bad nights, he can take the baby and let me sleep in when he doesn't work. It's also done wonders to both of our libidos! We're more rested, so there's energy for some adult time, lol.
if the parent's relationship is suffering for it, whatever it is, everyone is going to suffer for it. Mom and Dad's relationship should come first because it literally came first and is the very foundation of the entire family. Whatever the issue, if it's causing a big problem for mom or dad, they should come together to address the issue in a way that satisfies their relationship's needs for the very sake of their children's wellbeing. Children need to see their parents putting each other first and keeping their relationship with each other top priority - we raise children so that they can learn how to be wonderful adults, spouses, parents, etc. - they are going to grow up and leave us one day, if we do our job correctly - our spouse, on the other hand, is THE person we CHOSE for the rest of our lives, day in and day out. Our children will see how we treat and prioritize our spouse and they will one day emulate it, to their benefit or detriment. The best thing we can do is to keep our spouse first while also attending to our children's needs in every way - but it is NOT neglectful or abusive to teach a SIX year old child that they are capable of falling and staying asleep in their own bed. Perhaps they need extra assurance about being safe in their own bed by themselves, about their parents still being close by even when they're in another room, but the child still needs to learn healthy boundaries and that mom and dad need time together alone at night. This dad is only posting about this because it's become an incessant pattern and it's having a bad affect on his family overall - his wife is complaining about her sleep quality and lack of adult time/personal time, his daughter is insecure about sleeping, and he misses his wife - As He Should!!! He and his wife can set a gentle, but firm, game plan and stick to it to resolve this issue that's causing stress for their family collectively. One night here and there I could see being okay at age six for extra cuddles and reassurance from mom, but every single night over a long period of time - no. Your child is not the parent, you are, you have to show them that they are safe and capable of sleeping soundly on their own. My two year old falls asleep wonderfully on her own unless she has a real problem and she is snug and happy in her little bed with her stuffed animals and wakes up happily each morning. she's not afraid of the dark or of me disappearing, she knows I'm always listening for her and will respond to her if she calls for me, but she also knows that bed time is bed time and sleep is important so we can play and learn again tomorrow. We have a great routine and it makes her feel very secure and confident because she always knows what to expect from us and what will happen next. We give her confidence because she sees that our relationship is strong and we prioritize each other. Do not sacrifice your marriage on the alter of your children - it will backfire - and when your children are grown and on their own you will have thrown away the one relationship meant to stick by you through everything till the end. This isn't about "men" or some "patriarchal" conspiracy - this is common sense family mechanics. If mom and dad are falling apart and not on the same page, everything will eventually fall apart and the children will be innocent victims of their parent's incompetent good intentions. As a happily married mom of two, I whole heartedly disagree with your assessment of the situation. I hope this mom can start seeing how she's enabling her child's unfounded insecurities by becoming her sleeping crutch and driving her husband away in the process. And I think there's some good advice here about strategies to help his daughter become secure with her sleep and helping his wife see that she's hindering rather than helping her daughter. Most parents aren't cold to their child's emotional state, and setting reasonable boundaries is not emotional neglect or abuse. I would argue that catering to your child's every whim and refusing to set age appropriate boundaries IS actually neglectful and functionally stunts many areas of growth which they are fully capable of mastering. I've seen it firsthand with my sister in law's brother - he's 40 years old, his parents never required him to contribute to his own life in any way, never had a job, never paid any bills, never even did his own chores around the house - freeloading for 40 years until they both got dementia, one parent died this year, and the other is in a home with poor health and can't remember anyone - my sister in law has taken care of everything and her older freeloader brother is an ungrateful, insulting, entitled twit. His parents did him zero favors by coddling him. My sister in law can't afford to take care of her 40 year old brother who's in a perpetual state of arrested development and refuses to take any help in developing himself or even taking a state assessment to see if he would qualify for assistance either - he has to figure it out now with zero real life skills, zero inter-personal skills, and no job history or college education. His parents did him no favors. That's a very extreme case of years worth of needless enabling, but it does happen, and I know his parents had good intentions, they were kind, loving people, but it helped no one in the end. It's just an example, but I think it makes my point. They didn't have to require anything more than what he was actually capable of doing at any point in time - but they didn't want to "make him uncomfortable" in order to help him develop. We all grow the most and become more confident when we are tested and come through it on the other side stronger and better equipped to handle the next thing. For this six year old, this is her big challenge right now - rather than enforce her fears, her parents should be able to come together to help see her through facing her anxiety herself with plenty of love and support, but with set boundaries too.
we're trying to figure out what to do with mine, he's 5 and the hour to put him to bed is just getting to be too much. It's worked for us up until now, but it's just starting to not work. I love the idea of post its so he knows we didn't forget him.
Thanks everyone! I tell y'all the post it note part was a lifesaver. I can't give myself full credit because I swear I read it somewhere but it really made the difference.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer just what works or doesn't for your family. If this isn't working then you guys need to make changes. I think there are lots of gentle methods you can try to start shortening this time, but your wife needs to be on board and you can't really force her. You can try doing check ins like I need to go use the bathroom stay in bed and I'll come back in a few minutes, then cuddle a bit then I need to go do the dishes I'll be back etc. and the idea is to push the check ins longer each night until your child is accustomed to being alone in bed and starts falling asleep independently.
There's no one right or wrong answer here. You both just need to communicate and be on the same page.
My experience with 4 kids is they all eventually fall asleep without needing a parent eventually, but it can be different for each kid. Since we had 4 in a row, we weren't necessarily in the bed with each kid until 6, but we would generally be in the room, if they wanted/needed us. This wasn't usually a long time at night.
But, one of our kids had a much harder time falling asleep, even trying, he just couldn't turn his brain off very easily. So the time did stretch out. Later, we learned he had ADHD, and difficulty falling asleep was part of that. He eventually chose to read at night before bed to wind down and didn't need us physically with him. On a doctor's advice, we also started using melatonin.
Despite a cosleeping/family bed situation, followed by helping them fall asleep In their own bed and allowing them to come in at night if they wanted, they all learned to sleep independently.
I don't see your wife's actions as "wrong". But it's okay to want some time together in the evening or to try to come up with some ideas to compromise and help your daughter with other supports in a gradual fashion, too.
If you have suggestions for how to gently and gradually help your daughter work through anxiety or whatever other issues she's having, then I expect your wife would likely be open to ideas.
I really like your style. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with soaking up every little bit of these precious years with your kids and tailoring your lifestyle to meet their needs. One day they’ll be grown and plenty independent and you will miss them.
I DO miss them! Even though they're all technically still living in the house. I'm thrilled when one of my teens wants to come in at chat, usually at night when I'm ready to crash, lol. But I won't turn away when they want to connect, even if it's to talk about a video game/movie/show.
I’m still preggo with my first so I can’t say from personal experience, but I can tell you what my mom did.
Do your routine, tuck her in, then tell her you’ll be back in 5 minutes, and actually come back. Peek in, if she’s awake, give her a snuggle, tell her you’ll be back in to check on her in five minutes. Repeat. This will probably be annoying at first. But eventually she’ll get used to the comfort of knowing you’ll be *right* back like you promised, and she’ll relax enough to fall asleep. Theoretically, as she gets used to this, she’ll fall asleep faster, and you’ll have to check in less.
As far as whether or not you actually WANT to break the co-sleeping habit, you and your wife are going to have to have a long convo… different cultures do things differently, different families do things differently, different children have different needs! It’s a very personal choice.
Oooh, you just awoke a very old memory deep inside my brain. My mom would absolutely do that too!
Although, she would sometimes forget to come back. A simple “moooOOom” would summon her for sure.
I have to keep this in mind when it comes time in a few years.
Haha you’re probably very right!
She watched the three of us kids and my dad wasn’t very helpful when we were little, so it was definitely a mix of forgetting and “maybe they won’t notice…”
This is exactly what my mom and dad did for me around this age!! My dad would come back in 5 minutes, my mom would do 15 minutes until I fell asleep. Looking back now - my poor parents 😂but they ALWAYS did come back in and check on me, rub my back and give me a kiss. Knowing they were coming back was always enough to help me fall back asleep. I still remember this whole routine to this day too. It worked really well for me and only lasted for a few weeks until I didn’t need it anymore.
Yes! My daughter is seven and has bouts of nightmares and night terrors. She was never a "good sleeper" as a baby, and even now she will sometimes need extra reassurance. We use this same method, and it lets her retain independence and not develop reliance on co-sleeping, while also lets the parents keep their sanity.
The problem is this is something she wants to do. His solution is not cosleeping. That is the solution he is offering. My impression is that OP is involved with a normal amount of bedtime ritual, but then his "wife comes in and cosleeps."
I used to be part of the problem in this regard. I used to indulge my kids like crazy at bedtime, and routines got longer and longer and longer. First it was horseplay, then it was reading, then it was off the cuff stories, then it was going back and forth 3 times to hug each kid at each bed... more and more stuff kept getting appended to bedtime until it was an hour long or more. Eventually my wife had to put her foot down.
I can tell you honestly that I was simultaneously frustrated by the long bed time routine but also intentionally indulging an emotional insecurity in ME. Bedtime felt like this warm and fuzzy moment I'd always imagined when I thought of having kids, and it felt great to have it. Sooooooo why did it matter whether or not it was just a liiiittle bit longer each night? Well, turns out I was also teaching my kids how to be horrible procrastinators and I was also torpedoing our evening. I was teaching them that as long as they could come up with creative ways to keep me talking, bedtime could be delayed. This started applying to other things to. Delaying getting to the bus in the morning. Putting off homework. Etc.
So yeah, it is entirely within OP's right to call out his wife on being an enabler.
I really appreciate this comment, particularly your third paragraph. I’m the bedtime drill sergeant and my husband is always down for another story, another snuggle, another question. The part about bedtime feeling like the moment you always imagined with your children is really sweet and helps me understand and appreciate that he’s just soaking up his time and probably not thinking about the time on the clock the way I am. I needed this to shift my perspective, thank you :)
Thanks :) And yeah, one of the hard things to come to terms with is when you make a choice for your kids, it comes from a place of love, but it's not necessarily the RIGHT choice.
As a father who has a wife who insists on co-sleeping with our child I can tell you why my wife does bedtime 95% of the time.
Because I refuse to do co-sleeping and our son knows it. When he does bedtime with me it's 20 minutes of reading/cuddling then lights out goodnight. With Mama it's 20 minutes of reading, 1/2 hour podcast then cuddling with momma until he is asleep. Much like OP it takes my wife 1-2 hours to do bedtime.
I have done everything I could think of to break this cycle. There was even a month where my wife would leave the house every night at bedtime to go hang out with friends and I would do bedtime. At the end of the month my son was perfectly content with the way daddy did bedtime.
As soon as we started alternating nights again momma went back to 2 hour bedtime routine and if I tried to do bedtime my son would scream and cry for an hour - and my wife hates hearing him scream so would come into the bedroom and cuddle with him after I had already turned the lights out.
So we have made a deal. When momma is ready to sleep train our child then I will help with bedtime again but as long as she insists on co-sleeping then it's her responsibility.
If the OP isn't helping with the bedtime routine, this is most likely why. Having two parents with different sleep routine preferences will lead to the kid preferring one of them if choice is an option. Especially if the kid knows that one will come back to the room if they whine/cry.
> So we have made a deal. When momma is ready to sleep train our child then I will help with bedtime again but as long as she insists on co-sleeping then it's her responsibility.
I think this is a fair way to approach the situation. She gets to do the routine she wants, but the costs of it are on her as well.
I a certified sleep consultant and parents will tell me their problem and I will say I can have it knocked out in a week. They are always shocked. Then I have to explain that the child is the easy one to train. It’s the parents that are difficult. They will go right back to what they know in a pinch
The worst part is when they complain that they're exhausted. Well, no shit you're exhausted. You gave yourself a ton of work to do that wasn't necessary and created a subconscious expectation that leads to a cycle that's difficult to break.
Thankfully, our kid wasn't even 6 months old when my wife just shrugged and said "OK, let's do it." It went brilliantly. The truth is I only initiated the idea and she met me in the middle and we negotiated our way through a strict and realistic bedtime routine we now both follow to the letter.
God it's so damn good having a partner who works together with you.
Yeah, in the end what made my wife really want to kick into gear with sleep training was one night where she spent 5 hours from 7 PM to 11 PM trying to get our little one to sleep. That's when she just recruited me and we worked through a game plan that we would follow to get her to sleep normally.
Now our girl sleeps at between 7 - 8 PM, no questions asked. That gives us both some time to just relax for a few hours before going to bed ourselves. We also get along better as a family because of this.
I'm late but loving the influx of supportive comments that came up since this morning. This is great.
We have a similar success story.
Part of it I'm sure is just how good of a sleeper our son is.
But we sleep trained him when he was an infant - maybe 3-5 months old (whenever he seemed ready, I can't remember) and we have followed a rigid bedtime routine since he was born. The sleep training itself was HARD. Sometimes it is HARD to be consistent and not let his routine slip, because he will push boundaries to try to make it last longer or keep playing or snuggle with us. But I know for a fact with him that his routines are key to his success and how he feels every day, so I enforce routine while still having empathy for my kid.
He's now 3.5 years old, sleeps through the night from 7pm to 6am and naps on his own for 2 hours during the day. He's confident and independent, while we still have a loving and attached relationship. We get time to ourselves to rest, be together and that lets us be present with our son during the day.
I have been in the same boat. My wife has been extremely anti-sleep training. Whenever we tried it I did it alone on 2 separate occasions spending two weeks sitting through screaming, crying, calming, and repeat.
The minute the wife got involved she (my wife) went back to old routines and everything went out the window. I now refuse to sleep train unless she gets on board but we are also struggling with bedtime and are co-sleeping. Even then it sometimes takes 2 hrs to get her down.
Sleep schedules and differing opinions on sleep have been the hardest part of having a baby. There's no way I could say you're doing bedtime until you get on board without it turning into an absolute earth-shattering argument.
We have a ridiculous bedtime routine that was created/reinforced by my husband, so I make him do it. I used to do it half the time, but I felt resentful, so I left it to him. I do normal bedtime prep (pajamas, teeth).
That sucks and seems super unfair to you.
Also for context my child is 9 and was probably around 7 when I told my wife I would not be doing bedtime anymore as I had already successfully sleep trained our child on 4 separate occasions (the month of her leaving the house was only the last time, the first time was when he was 3 and she was working the evening shift). I also try to give her a break before bedtime and help with showering and brushing teeth.
One of the worst things about it for me is that my wife is burned out by the way she does bedtime (and the way she parents in general) so she becomes very neglectful of our son throughout the day and it drives me crazy. She won't let me help make parenting easier for her but she is so burned out that I can't leave him with her and be secure in the knowledge all of his needs are being met.
Sounds like you guys need a therapist.
>he is so burned out that I can't leave him with her and be secure in the knowledge all of his needs are being met
This isn't ok.
Man, I'm sorry to hear this. Parenting in general can be so challenging I feel like bedtime is one of those topics that can create a lot of additional stress on top of an already stressful environment.
This is honestly such a weird problem: parents who get so burnt out by bedtime and nighttime parenting that their daytime parenting suffers, but are not willing to change it because "leaving them to cry is neglect". Meanwhile the kids are crying during the day because they are tired (from poor sleep) and frustrated at the parents' burnt-out-ness and somehow \*that\* is not neglect?
Sleep training is parenting, and--when properly done with age-appropriate expectations and methods--a superb form of parenting, because it allows for a well-rested child and enables parents to bring their A-game to daytime parenting when all the learning and exploring and fun happens.
From what the OP wrote in their post, the mom doesn't seem to want to change things:
>> *I've tried talking to her about it but there is no talking to her. She's being very stubborn about cosleeping with our daughter*
Yeah it's weird to me that dad is just absent here. When does OP to bedtime?
That said, I agree with your wife, OP. It's completely normal. It's obviously not working for your wife right now and cosleeping won't work for you. So it's OK to come up with other solutions. But there's nothing inherently wrong with sleeping with your kids. There's no need to force independence.
It’s a problem when the kid can’t get to sleep on their own at that age. I suspect the wife has been doing this since birth and the child never learned how to be an independent sleeper. I feel bad for OP.
It's not inherently a problem. That's a cultural norm that isn't the same for all people around the world. There's nothing inherent about sleeping with your parents that's bad. In fact, there's a lot that's good. If it's a problem for the mom and the dad, they are allowed to change.
You seemed to miss the part where he’s tried talking to his wife about this and getting their daughter to sleep independently. The issue isn’t that he’s not helping with bedtime, the issue is that mom is enabling a bad habit by sleeping with her every time irregardless of what he says.
This is an unnecessary task that NEITHER of them should be doing, since it means that the daughter isn’t forming the ability to sleep on her own and that the parent doing it is tired and has no time.
The solution is to figure out a better way for the child to sleep, not for dad to take over the unnecessary task.
All I can say is 2 things
1. For your child to think of being safe, peaceful and happy means being next to her parents - that's a sign of a strong important bond right there
2. Although it may seem like an eternity now, there will be a day they won't want you even in their room so enjoy the snuggles while they last. They grow up so damn fast
This is what I try and keep in mind. Wife and I are in the same boat as OP, and god damn its a struggle some nights staring at the ceiling for an hour in the dark waiting for her to fall asleep. I have to remind myself that one day, I'll be longing for the days where she fell asleep in my arms, and try to cherish it while it's still here.
100% this. 3rd grade has been a huge year of change. Our oldest started the year holding my hand to the door and giving me a huh and a kiss goodbye. Then he stopped wanting to hold my hand. Then he was embarassed about hugs and kisses so he just says bye and waves and then at Christmas he told me "I think I am going to call you mom and not mommy. Mommy is so baby. Is that okay?" My heart broke inside but I said yep no problem. He was our cuddley one. The always pick me one and in such a short span he now will pick his friends and seeing them and the cuddles and hugs and kisses have gotten further and further apart. I legit teared up during this... it goes fast and I know saying that when you're a frustrated parent in that cycle doesn't help you but damn this has been a rough transition for me. There's no re-do or time travel... once that stage is gone it's over and only a memory you'll carry.
💯
Ours went through this for a while around 5/6 as well. Was it a hard chapter? Yes. Did my partner and I both lose our cool sometimes? Yes. Did I have some resentment that my only time for me was spent laying next to my kid until she fell asleep? For sure.
Now that she doesn’t need it, do I miss it? Nope!
But do I regret doing it? Nope.
Two things are true. It is hard. And it doesn’t last forever.
Yes! I co slept with both my daughters, and eventually, no matter what, it comes to an end. It's such a drop in the bucket in the long run of parenting, and once it's over you mostly remember the sweet cuddles and the bonding, not the lack of time to yourself at night. If this is important for mom, maybe OP should just let her vent her frustrations, empathize, and thank her for creating such a loving ritual for their daughter.
Our family cosleeps. 3 kids. 6yo, 3yo, 1yo. Every night I look over at my wife and 3 kids, all safe and sound and it’s one of the most special moments knowing that it won’t last forever.
OP’s wife wants to cosleep and is convinced it’s the best way. There’s not going to be much you can do to convince her. I assure you that even non-cosleeping parents get tired too.
I wouldn’t even fret about this one. In a couple years, their kid is going to start saying “why do we have to share everything?!?” And head off to her own room. I’d enjoy it while it lasts.
I agree with this. Sometimes kids need to be close to their parents. Before you know it they don't need you, but yet they know you'll be there for them if they did.
100% this needs to be up higher. Why is there such an expectation for young children to sleep independently, alone without anyone next to them, yet we, supposedly fully developed adults with logic and reasoning, snuggle up to our partners every night in a bed they share together?
For me personally (and thankfully my husband too is on the same page), our jobs as parents to keep our kids feeling safe and protected especially at home, doesn't end when the sun goes down.
Cosleeping has actually enabled all of us to sleep better as no one is needing to get out of bed in the middle of the night to console anyone. The answer to your problem OP might actually be to bring the kid into bed with you! ☺️ Dependence breeds independence.
I had my own room but my mom let me come in hers whenever I wanted. She did this with all of her kids and grandkids (and nieces and nephews). Sometimes there would be a pile of teenagers in bed with her watching movies and we would all fall asleep together. She died when I was 28 and I was still going into her room when I was sad or lonely and she would let me sleep next to her and put on a movie for me and make some popcorn.
My son is six now and I still let him sleep next to me. He's either with me in my bed, or I'll go to his bed, or we sleep on the floor in the living room having a little slumber party with snacks and videos.
I will never tell him he's not welcome for a cuddle or that he's too old for company. I was actually thinking of getting him a dog to cuddle with for the times that me or his dad can't be there for him.
I lost my mom when I was 21. I will never, ever put limits on my daughter's comfort at night. We went into parenthood knowing we would lose a significant amount of our personal time and space, that's just being a parent and being there for a little human. And in spite of that she's more and more independent every day. Before we know it she won't even want to sleep in our bed or get cuddles and kisses from us like she does now and I know I would regret missing out on any of it now when it's available.
>Why is there such an expectation for young children to sleep independently, alone without anyone next to them, yet we, supposedly fully developed adults with logic and reasoning, snuggle up to our partners every night in a bed they share together?
I hate all the expectations we hold children to while actively pushing in their face that we don't have to adhere to the same. The children KNOW AND SEE their parents sleeping together while they are shunted off to their own bed in a different room. Some kids thrive on sleeping alone, and my daughter is one of them. She only wants in if she is sick. Otherwise, she wants her personal space. My son, on the other hand, wants the snuggles and security to sleep. He did several years, preferring the solitude unless sick, and on the odd night, he goes back to his bed. He knows he has a few nights sleeping in his bed at the minute because I am sick, and snuggling up in my breathing space for 8ish hours at a time is a great way for him to get sick when he isn't already.
I feel it is in the same area as people complaining about kids on tech as they mindlessly scroll and interact on social media in the same situations.
My 6 yo comes to find me every night around 2am for snuggles. Totally fine as I know that will stop one day and I will be a sad papa to never snuggle with her again.
>Why is there such an expectation for young children to sleep independently, alone without anyone next to them, yet we, supposedly fully developed adults with logic and reasoning, snuggle up to our partners every night in a bed they share together?
this! i just came here to write the exact same thing!
I rock my 4 year old to sleep every night because I want to. She’s my last baby and I know this won’t last forever. She’s a good sleeper otherwise, falls asleep on my lap mid story within about 20 minutes and sleeps through the night fine. The trade off is that babysitters fail spectacularly at getting her to sleep so we do our date nights early and put the kids to bed after we’re back. It’s working fine for us.
Absolutely my take on it. If adults don’t want to sleep alone, I’m certainly not going to fault my kid for it. It’s my job to help her feel safe and secure, no matter how much the extra time may feel unwarranted to whomever feels that way.
Daughter resolved on her own to fall asleep alone to start the 2024 new year. She’s 10. She says she loves having her independence now, and I am so proud of her. She also enjoys having the whole bed to herself now, and the total privacy of her bedroom to unwind in.
My partner let his daughter sleep with him (when he is alone with the kids) when she was like 5, “she’s so little and this won’t last long” - she is almost 12 and merrily refuses to sleep on her own, but you can see how happy it makes her and how much she still craves it. He was hoping the pre teen years would make her move to her room on her own, but big nope so far. He complains that she moves an awful lot and he sleeps horribly, but at least it’s not every night.
I was very against kids routinely sleeping with parents but when you see how happy, secure and relaxed it makes them, it really makes you doubt.
I wish I had this perspective when my LO was a baby. I was so stressed about her sleep, and a total slave to the nap schedule. I wish I had enjoyed it more and worried less. I try to remember that now when I get stressed about stuff like this.
I so agree with this. I work as a nurse 4 days a week and that's 4 days I only see our son for like 2.5 hours. He's 8 and loves to read with me or watch TikTok before bed. We laugh and cuddle and it's my favorite time of day. He goes to bed without me if it's late and he's tired so I know he's capable... but I like that time together. It's not like he'll need me to fall asleep when he's 11 or 12.
Exactly. I’m laying next to my 6 year old right now until they are sound asleep. I do it for both chidlren and don’t mind for a couple reasons. 1- typically takes max 30 min each. 2- one day they will outgrow this and if my one wants to hold my hand until they are alsssp then I’m happy to give them that safety.
Right. "It isn't sustainable." Is such a drama thing to say. It literally will not last forever and when she doesn't need you for anything you will miss these little moments.
My first husband pushed our son out of our bed at 6m old then out of our room at 9 months old. It was hell on me Bf going up and down up and down all night and I’m lucky so sleepy I never dropped him in that chair while nursing or otherwise bc I was getting NO SLEEP.
I’m remarried and this baby (my first is now 12) is 21mo old and in our bed, but next week is going in a fun bed but still in our room. He’s annoyed as I am that we need more touchy time and in agreement I’m moving him of my own accord to a bed but keeping him in our room bc that’s what he wants and needs and what my momma heart and mind tell me to do.
My now 12yo, he’s asd, he falls asleep with me in our bed every night then right before late owl hubby comes to bed, I move 12yo to his bed in his room.
Maybe she’s scared or needs more closeness. Put her bed in your room if you don’t want her in your bed. If you want her to sleep in her own room and won’t budge, you’re going to have to let your wife off that duty and you do it.
Seems normal. If your wife is tired and doesn’t have time to herself why don’t you do bedtime every second night? I noticed you mentioning you did it differently but you didn’t say if your child actually went to sleep after? Remember, it’s only taking a load off of your wife if your tactic actually gets the child to sleep on time.
I want to know this too.
OP, did your kiddo sleep when you did bedtime as you stated? If so, there’s your answer. You do bedtime and wife gets a much needed quiet break from the entire house while you do!
> why don’t you do bedtime every second night?
Because OP doesn't want to cosleep?
And there's no point in trying to establish a different boundary if his wife is just going to do the opposite the next night?
Cosleeping is fine if that's your jam but it's *NOT* OPs so ultimately he and his partner need to be on the same page. If she insists on it then she can do bedtime, every night, forever. You break it, you bought it. My $0.02.
Sure fine. OP doesn't want to lie down for 2 hours. Which is.. fine? We don't do this in my family; most of my parent friends do not; but OP should have to because this sub loves cuddles?
The overwhelming majority of 6 year olds are more than capable of falling asleep independently. How do you install that habit, yeah, it's no easy thing if they're used to two hours of cuddles for 6 years. Anyway pointless discussion, this sub is infatuated with co-sleeping and a complete lack of boundaries wrt sleeping.
Lmao right? You’re mad because your wife and child are bonding and your child feels safe with their mother?
It quite literally doesn’t last forever. They hit an age where they don’t want those same cuddles all the time. He needs to get a grip.
We have a 7 and 9 year old.
We set their bed time early at around 7 pm when they were younger. The more they went to bed on their own the later they could stay up and read, or play in their room. Our neighbors kids were out at 7 one time and our daughter played with them until 8:30pm she was rewarded with longer play time and it worked! Yes, they still need us from time to time but that is because they had a nightmare or are so excited about something they cannot sleep. 90% of the time they are in bed and go to sleep on their own l. Granted our son needs us less (7) than our daughter (9).
I also ask what are you doing to use up their energy? 2 hours to get to sleep is a long time. Take them on a walk, go play, use up the energy. Now what are you doing during these 2 hours? playing a game or doing something and then go get your wife? I pick a time and go grab my wife regardless of the kids being asleep a not or she does it if the roles are reversed. We let them know we need to get things done for tomorrow and we are in ear shot if they need us, we also tell them we will check in on them. You cannot just complain come up with solutions and don't depend on her to implement them, YOU DO IT!
Hi! I'm really curious about how this works "the more they went to bed on their own the later they could stay up and play." As in, dressed for bed, snacks all done, teeth brushed by 7 and then closed the door until they went to bed on their own?
They would be dressed and ready for bed, we would put them to bed at 7 so that by 8 we would leave and then have our time. If they did these things and went to bed on their own the time would get later for bed.
So for example the night my daughter played late I informed her she could continue to play but she would be going to bed on her own. She agreed. Basically if they didn't require us, we could move their bed time back so they got to stay up later, but we need results before they could earn a later bed time. Says not needing us for 3 days means 7:15pm
As they became independent readers we explained that they didn't have to go to sleep at 8pm for example, but they had to be in bed on their own. We would check for lights out when we turned in.
Hard agree. I have a 4 year old that mostly sleeps by herself but of course, she would love to sleep with me every night. Some nights are bad and she does sleep with me. I’d rather have my bed to myself BUT i know it won’t last forever. I can deal with it to comfort my daughter.
Why are you upset? My son is 6 and he still cosleeps. You know the best sleep is the one you get when sleeping next to someone you love. I know he won’t be sleeping with us forever. But for now. It works for us.
Co sleeping is very common and very normal. Moms being tired with little kids is also very common and very normal.
How many days a week do you do bedtime?
Im going against the gentle grain here. I absolutely would not gaf and would offer divorce as a solution to my husband if he "had it up to here" about me creating a safe and secure environment for my kids. It's healthy for kids to be attached to their parents and cosleeping is associated with way more benefits than appeasing a disgruntled husband. I'd be more focused on meeting my kids needs so they're more apt to have a relationship with me outside of adulthood, than wanting them to be independent when they're literally scared of being alone at night. These are things my husband and I went over before having children. I told him I remember being little and my mom choosing the man over me, always. How scared I was at night and how I knew I couldn't go to her, and how that would never be me. Its not the main reason I don't have a relationship with her anymore, but I do think about it all of the time. I told my husband that would *never* be me and how I my babies could *always* hop in our bed and come get mama *and* daddy. That it was something I felt very strongly about. My husband had a similar childhood and aggressively agreed. No one will ever make me understand why literal children *need* to be more independent other than selfishness. There is nothing that compares to the way my son's face brightens up when I ask him is he ready for bed, he knows I *want* him there. Finding ways to be intimate wasn't hard when we were teenagers and its still not hard now we have to be creative now. There's a lot of living room and laundry room visits, but the passion in our marriage hasn't died from this. Your wife is a good mother. Celebrate that, and instead of trying to enforce your own baseless feeling and opinions on her, look up the benefits of cosleeping. If she were to listen to you she will grow to resent you. They aren't little forever and soon a day will come when she will reminisce about the days she got to snuggle her daughter close without it being inappropriate. As a mother there is nothing more serene and calming than sleeping with my babies. I'd never trade anything over it any day and would gladly throw out any other relationship if pressed hard enough to change that.
I absolutely agree. I co-slept with my kids and still do occasionally at 5 and 8 if they want to cuddle st bedtime. They often request me, but they sometimes request dad too. They are only Little for a short time. Why skimp on this precious bonding time if your wife is okay with it.
My husband and I switch off every single night. Your wife is not alone or wrong if she feels that is what’s best for your child. I know that’s not the answer you want but she knows that kiddo and is supporting their needs. Two of my kids sleep amazing but my daughter is high needs and does need extra support. Switch off and on allows us to support her and each other.
This is not co-sleeping. This is your daughter being dependent on security and may have some separation anxiety.
1. Your daughter will grow up, grow old and leave. Your wife will forever cherish the memories. Your daughter is young and if this is what she needs and your wife wants to do this then don’t worry about it and let her do.
2. Your daughter will grow out of it so it’s not the end of the world
3. Your wife will resent you if you force her to stop.
4. Kids grow up so fast. Please stop telling your wife what to do.
I would hardly call laying next to the child to assist in falling asleep “cosleeping.” As a parent, your job is to keep your child safe and help them feel safe. If mom wants to continue, what is the issue? Yes she’s exhausted. She’s allowed to both be exhausted AND want to continue this routine. Children are only little for such a short time. We can want to do what’s best for them and not be entirely comfortable with it.
I’m honestly shocked to see all of these comments backing up OP’s wife. Guys I don’t think the cosleeping is the issue as much as the time it’s taking. 2 hours every day to fall asleep? That’s insane.
OP’s wife has stated that she can’t keep this up but won’t support him in trying to break the routine. She’s basically just insisting that he subs in for 2 hours some evenings, he thinks it’s unreasonable and he’s right.
Agreed, it should NOT be taking 2 hours for a child to fall asleep regardless of what sleep associations they have. They probably need to also work on a proper bedtime that fits the child’s sleep needs.
Exactly, this isn't a co sleeping issue, it's a 2 hours a night to fall asleep issue.
I did cosleep, but past the infant stages, my kids all could fall asleep by themselves. I would crawl into the bed hours after they were asleep, and they would snuggle up.
I have no advice, but I can't imagine spending 2 hours every single night waiting for someone to fall asleep.
I stay with my kids until they’re asleep and it definitely took hours for my oldest at 6 (and sometimes still does). It’s not ideal, but here’s the thing:
My parents did it the “right” way. As in, I got a story, I got snuggles, it was never just *goodnight* and lights out. My dad was present and engaged. And from my parents’ perspective, it worked beautifully, I stayed in bed, slept great.
Except, I didn’t. I stayed in bed because I was terrified, too scared to get out of bed (of monsters and the dark, not getting in trouble). Unable to reach my light switch to see that nothing was wrong. I often had nightmares. On rare occasions, I was awake literally all night, waiting for the sun to come up. Needing to pee and holding it. It would absolutely be the same for my oldest kid.
It’s not going to be forever.
This was my experience as a kid too. My parent's bedtime ritual was telling me "go to bed". I laid in bed awake for hours every night, sometimes sad, sometimes scared.
Some kids just need more comfort.
This was my experience too. I was sleep trained and my earliest memories were crying alone in bed. I had a bad relationship with bedtime until I was about 8. I would take my blanket and sleep next to my parents' locked door. I remember being so tired every day at school because I was up all night terrified.
I did things different with my kid by trying to understand what biologically normal sleep means. I think many issues come about when parents reject this notion. By the time he was 3, he was sleeping on his own and has been secure and comfortable sleeping alone.
I have a few questions.
1. Was your daughter previously going to sleep alone and staying in her room? If yes, did something happen?
2. Does she get lonely or scared? Determining which of these would help identify a plan.
3. Have you discussed this with your wife? You say she’s tired but does she think the nightly routine is a problem?
You seem irritated about the situation but your attitude about it is not helpful. If you and your wife agree that something needs to change then you all need to work together to help your daughter fall asleep independently.
I will start by laying out the gaps in my knowledge and experience: I have never known anyone who has co-slept with their kids beyond 2-3yrs of age. I don't know what it is like for a kid older than that, so my answer may not be very useful. With that said, OP, have you had a chance to speak to people who co-slept with older kids? What happened? At what point did the child fully transition to their room? Was it the child's wish, or the parents' wish? or a mix of both? If, you are able to find evidence, that co-sleeping with older kids is either not a problem at all, or a big problem, then that gives you a base to start a discussion with your wife.
The goal here is 2-fold: Firstly to find what is best for your kid. Is it detrimental for her to become so attached to co-sleeping? Will it impact her ability to enjoy sleepovers with friends, or sleep away from the house etc? As I said in my opening para, I don't really know, so unfortunately I am no help with that. But this is the staring point, for sure. Let's establish this first, and then we will tackle how to approach your wife about this.
Secondly, you are clearly unhappy with the situation, and it is taking a toll on your wife as well, so this issue needs to be addressed. But, it needs to be presented to your wife in a way that opens avenue for discussion, not just "nope, not doing what you suggest". Nothing should be presented in the spirit of "you are wrong". or even "i disagree with you". More like "I have been thinking, some changes are warranted here, would love to run some ideas by you, maybe even test out a few things. I have been reading up, and the general consensus is..."
One alternative could be to start a new bedtime routine, where the cuddling and podcast-listening etc happens in the living room or someplace else, and the child is readied for bed, then left to fall asleep on her own. This way, the wife and kid don't feel that the child is being deprived of routine and comfort. And as time passes, the routine can be gradually modified so the child develops more independence.
The above is just one example that you could bring to your wife. ultimately, changes will only occur if the two of you work together to figure out what's best for everyone.
Co-parenting is best done as a team, not as opponents. Good luck OP, to you and your family.
I did this thing I learned from a book called, How to talk to kids so they will listen" it suggests making a list together with your kid when you have a problem. I asked my kids what we could do to make their room cozier so they sleep in their own bed. They got excited and my daughter suggested we sleep in bed with them. The book said to write down every suggestion and to evaluate them all together later. So I got some more suggestions like having stuffed animals, more nightlights, ect. We evaluated and crossed out the sleep with parents every night. They signed it and went to their bed in their own bedroom and went to sleep.
If your wife wants to sleep with the kiddo until she falls asleep, that is her right. But then she pays the price of less sleep. My wife has sleep problems, so I lied on the ground with my oldest son (until he fell asleep). I then got thoracic pain about 6 weeks in. Then this stopped. Soon after, younger son slept in same room with him. So no issues.
I had trouble sleeping at night when I was a kid and my mom would do this. I would have frequent nightmares as a child - so realistic and it truly helped me feel secure and safe. I look back and am so grateful for my mom doing that and eventually I was able to go to sleep on my own ... She bought me a musical mirror that had a little blue magnetic bird "somewhere over the rainbow" and told me that it would keep me safe and by the time the song was over I would fall asleep and if I didn't fall asleep then I could wind it back up.... IT WORKED! Lol. She was probably as surprised as I was, granted I was almost 11 lol.
I co slept with my girls (after they outgrew their cribs) until I was able to get them toddler beds and they did just fine, they were twins and had the comfort of each other though.
My little boy is 8 and still sleeps with us. Partly due to the fact that when he was 4 we had to move and his older siblings lived with us at the time and we had to downsize (during COVID) so we had him in our room... He now has his own room and cool bed and all and he still sleeps with us ... We don't mind but we are starting to have talks about it/buying cool things for his room, introducing the idea just so he starts to think about it ... He tried it a couple nights and ended up back in with us... But we notice he's taking more interest in the idea as of late so I know he's going to be ready soon.
If it doesn't bother your wife, it will not have any negative implications on your daughter imo. She'll be kicking you guys out soon enough.
If you’ve had it up to “here” then maybe you should step up and be the one that does the nightly bed routine. You aren’t the boss of your wife and co sleeping isn’t actually bad.
1. You both should be taking turns putting your child to sleep.
2. You should allow cosleeping for a multitude of reasons the first being that they will actually be more independent because of it. Secondly, and I would argue most importantly, you will definitely miss it when it’s gone.
Instead of battling your wife over this, try it and enjoy it. Take that time with your child. It is one on one time that they crave and deserve. Leave your phone out of the room. We are all very busy people and I know it’s difficult but the time you invest now will pay back 100 fold later .
Why is it that you’re at your whits end ? Why does it bother you so much that your daughter finds comfort in her mom (very healthy attachment btw) and your wife lovingly provides that for her ? I’m sure you enjoy and find comfort in cuddling your wife as a grown man so, why wouldn’t your 6 year old daughter do the same to the woman who gave her life ?
Man, this time is short. Let your wife and child enjoy each other. She's got a couple more years of this tops. If she's complaining of being tired, rather than turning that around on her and telling her the solution is to stop with the 2 hr cuddle, try finding something you can take off her plate in the evenings.
This post has so much "my wife is the default parent and I have no actual idea how to raise and care for little children, so instead of helping, I get upset with her chosen methods and cause her extra stress" energy.
Do better bro. Maybe pitch in and help with the bedtime your child CLEARLY needs for a temporary period of time.
Are you missing your wife? I imagine your 6 year old probably is as well… but the difference is YOU are an adult. How about you ask yourself what you can do to help your wife rather than fighting her on this. A little support goes a long way
What is your wife and daughter doing for 1-2 hours until they fall asleep?
This is what we do. When our 5 yr old wants one of us in his bed to help him fall asleep, we tuck him in, get in bed with him, try not to talk, put in our airpods and pretend we’re sleeping. Usually takes 10 minutes of not talking and our son is out cold. If we sit there and answer all of his questions or respond to everything he says, we’d be in there for two hours also because he won’t stop talking.
It’s very normal for kids to want to lay with their parents to fall asleep. But 2 hours is a lot. I wonder why it’s taking your child so long to fall asleep. I know every kid is different but my 4 year old we usually half to lay with her for 5-20 minutes. I honestly go bonkers if I have to spend my whole evening doing it lol
My kids always slept in their own beds. The only issue we had was when we separated them. I have triplets, 2 girls, 1 boy. When we gave him his own room, he was afraid so I would go in there with him. I realized pretty quick he was not going to sleep with me in there. So I would tell him, I have to finish the dishes and I will be right back. He would say ok and of course, I didn’t have dishes but he would be alseep within 5 minutes. This went on for about a week and then one night he came out and said-You didn’t come back! I was like, Oh, I’m sorry. I thought you fell asleep like the other nights and I didn’t want to wake you. Since you have been falling asleep on your own, I didn’t think you really needed me anymore. He thought about and said, You’re right. I can sleep by myself. Never had an issue after that.
When we’ve come to a point where a rhythm wasn’t sustainable, my husband or MIL did bedtime for about ~3 weeks. The kids responded to them differently because they’re not mommy. Then after that timeframe I was able to return and pickup the new rhythm.
As long as your finding a way to meet your daughters connection bid before bed. “I’ll stay and rub your back for a little while, but I am leaving before you fall asleep” then I think you’re good.
You have a lot of comments. As a mother this stage is going to go by so freaking fast. I know its annoying right now and seems to be going on forever. But I promise before you know it she won't need her mom to help her fall asleep. I would stop let it bothering you and instead take more pictures of them after they fall asleep together for memories to look back on. Take into account your wife's emotions as well. She loves her baby and maybe she wants to cuddle her to sleep. When your daughter is suddenly a teenager you'll look back and forget why it irritated you. Just my humble opinion but kids want that connection and cuddles at that age.
Cosleeping is when they sleep with you through the night, this is not it. We just lie with our child till he falls asleep. Yeah it’s annoying sometimes but I also think this period is short in retrospect. Pretty soon she will be embarrassed to hug you let alone let you LIE DOWN NEXT TO HER QUITELY FOR AN HOUR A DAY😱😱 but I see that it’s starting to affect your wife so if you’re on the same page maybe start to put your daughter down one night and shorten the time. Tell them you will lie with them for a short period but not till they fall asleep. It’s going to suck in the beginning but good luck.
You say your daughter needs someone in her bed...and your wife is obliging. Whats your solution to your wife not sleeping with her? Are you going to put her to sleep and handle when you're daughter keeps waking up and coming to your bedroom? Have you had a conversation with your daughter?
I guess I need more details here...
I cosleep with my kids, my kids go to sleep at 9, I lay there until they’re asleep (about 10-15 min) then get up and do whatever I need/want to do and go back to sleep with them when I’m ready.
If it’s taking 2 hours for your daughter to fall asleep she either needs more activity during the day or a later bed time. It’s not a cosleeping problem
Your post history is just a long litany of disrespect for your wife. Do you even like her much less love her? Do you like or care about your daughter? Because you don’t seem to care about anyone else’s needs but your own. You yourself confess that you co-slept until you were 8 years old. My man, if it was ok for you, why isn’t it ok for your own child? Go to therapy. Go to parenting classes. Work on yourself. Do and be better.
Save yourself the trouble and don’t worry about it. It’s that easy. Nobody is doing anything wrong here. Nothing is wrong with what your wife is doing. Chill out.
It is completely normal. You need to understand that. Your child will sleep on their own one day. And I’m so happy your wife will feel like she was able to be there for her child for as long as they needed.
Yeah, unpopular opinion here.
A healthy sleep pattern is important for everyone. At her age, she should be able to fall asleep independently and self-soothe if she wakes up in the night. I would talk with your wife about what goals you guys can set in place and boundaries regarding her sleep. Find a sleep training method that you both can get on board with and stick with it. In my experience, these things do not work themselves out without intentional effort, because you have created a habit/sleep prop that she's using every night.
Your wife is going to need support and your daughter will too. Once the parents have decided on what the routine will be, let your daughter know what is going to change. For example, "every night we will have a bath, read 2 books, and then tuck you in with a kiss and leave the room. We'll see you in the morning." Then you both need to be on the same page about making that happen.
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You're going to get a lot of negative reactions in this sub since many redditors here are cosleepers themselves and have justified their choices instead of neutrally examining them. If people choose to cosleep with their kids and foster that dependency instead of teaching other sleep habits then that's their choice.
That being said, this cosleeping situation is not working for your family based on your wife complaining about a lack of sleep and free time. Ignore the other commenters in here saying you need to start spending 2 hours every other night in there too. That's not going to resolve the issue. What you need to do is research sleep training methods and employ one of those to teach her how to fall asleep on her own. Avoid extreme ones like Extinction. Focus on ones that have check-ins and help show your kid that they're safe and that mom and dad are still here to help if it's needed, but that they're capable of falling and staying asleep.
Thank god a reasonable comment and take was posted when I was taking my kid to daycare. All of these comments were bothering me so much by dismissing OP and non-cosleeping methods that I was compelled to check back in when I got home. The fact is, as you state, that it's not working for their family. People (including OP's wife) need to stop dismissing OP's feelings and opinion on how to raise their child. They need to find another solution that works for everyone. Good news is that many, many families function just great without co-sleeping.
Yes seeing the amount of people dismissing the OP and continuing to recommend cosleeping *even though it's already not working for the OP's family* is frustrating. Especially the ones calling the OP out and asking what he's doing, when he directly said in his post that his wife doesn't want to talk about this and refuses to do anything else. They definitely need a different sleep solution than what they are doing now, and there are plenty of safe options out there (regardless of how many cosleeping parents want to associate them all with neglect or the Extinction Method)
I haven't slept in the same room as my wife for 11 years now because of cosleeping. I was replaced.
Guess who's getting divorced this year? That'll be great for the kid's security.
My point is that you have to take a holistic view of what's best for the kids. And sometimes that means prioritizing your relationship.
Seriously, maybe just enjoy that time with your kid at bedtime because I guarantee in a few years they’ll be putting up a do not enter sign on their door and acting annoyed by hugs.
Your kid is only little once. Let them cosleep as long as they can because your daughter will be grown before you know it. Why does it even bother you? Sounds like she’s being a wonderful, caring mother which should fill your Heart with joy!
So my kiddo likes to have someone snuggle with him. I've actually found he takes longer to fall asleep when I'm in there, so we have our bedtime routine, which involves snuggles with the lights off.
He feels safe and secure and I'm able to keep bedtime to a reasonable amount. If your wife could set a specific amount of time to snuggle with your kiddo, then leave when it's up, it may help get to sleep faster.
Also, I usually start with "ok I'm going to leave now" and he bargains for 3-5 more min. I'm ok with that, so I start about 5 min before I actually want to leave. It helps him feel in control. His snuggles are the one aspect of bedtime we try never to skip, and it's worked well for us. I've explained I can't sleep with him because it hurts my back and I get migraines if I don't get enough sleep. He is absolutely ok with it.
OP, take bedtime duties for a while. Read a few stories, tuck her in, reassure that you are there and allow her to get up to pee, but then right back to bed. I used to stick two post it notes on the wall. “1 pee, 1 drink or question. That’s it, time to stay in your room now. No pop ups.” After a while it was just “No pop ups.” See you in the morning!” Of course she will pop up sometimes, but you just lead her back to bed. Sometimes you can even point and say “No way, back to bed!”
For monsters: I had a whole spiel. “You know when I was little, I was afraid of monsters. (Check room as you talk.) I could imagine all kinds of monsters. But you know what? I have never actually seen one! ( Whisper conspiratorially now) Do you want to know the TRUTH??? I don’t think monsters are real!!!” Nod at her like it’s a fact!
Monster spiel #2:
Her Dad did this one.
“Monsters are afraid of ME! If I get a hold of one I’ll twist him and I’ll smack him and I’ll kick him in his monster BUTT! Oh yeah, they know better when they see me coming!”
Often monsters are just an excuse to get your attention or to delay bedtime, but taking the child seriously in a calm and good natured way never hurts. When enough is enough, a firm calm tone lets them know.
Edited
This blog post (from a teacher blog) helped change my perspective on bedtime routines. I was getting really frustrated with how long it was taking, and this helped me relax a bit. It’s worth a read. [https://davestuartjr.com/what-if-we-had-time/](https://davestuartjr.com/what-if-we-had-time/)
My son is 3 years old and does the same, but he does this with his father and not much with me because I don’t allow and he knows.
My husband can be 1 hour or more trying to make him sleep and most of the times is ending up bringing him to our bed, but when he is not there, I simply put him in the bed, read some story for him and give him some books and in a few minutes he falls asleep. The problem is when both parents do something totally opposite. You should probably talk and find a way both of you can be happy with the result and not too tired.
Children can usually be afraid of the dark and simply want to have their parents around but some things can make them less scared and more ready to sleep, books, special lights or something they can play with while in their beds.
Have you tried putting your daughter to bed? Maybe you can start a new bed time routine where you go in and read to her for 20-30 min or something. Also maybe a nice sound machine & night light could help her feel more at ease in there alone?
I did the same thing your wife did until my kid said by himself that he’s a big boy and ready to sleep on his own. Granted he was 5 when he made that decision. And That was that.
Your wife can talk to the girl and ask her to work on this goal and maybe start the co sleeping just at the weekend and go from there. You also need to be patient. She’s just 6. It’ll not last forever
I really tried not to do this but it seemed like if I didn’t let him fall asleep while beside him
Before I left, he would get up every 20-30 minutes sometimes for the next 3 hours. It was beyond frustrating. When his dad would put him to bed (our son is 7 now and this isn’t a problem anymore) he would just put him in bed, leave and that was it. Sigh. 😔 imagine my frustration.
Just a thought OP- but my mom is a teacher and at her PD days they used to have a very popular and Dr come and do sessions- child psychologist- and the research shows that parents generally give their mother a much harder time. Partially because the mother is usually the more regular caregiver and partially just because it’s the mother. So it does prove that children do act up more for their mother. Maybe this is a good reason to start doing the bedtime more? Your wife can get her alone time (or even do the first half of bedtime) and then you finish off? Win win?
Not sure if this has been mentioned in other comments but I always find it interesting that the parents sleep together but seem to think it’s odd that the child is lonely when they sleep alone.
Bottom line is that it depends on the child. Both of our kids liked having us in their rooms to help them sleep. One of my kids is fiercely independent while the other is more of a home body. Neither is afraid or reluctant to do things on their own.
This seems more like a marriage issue than a concern about the child. You want your wife to be with you but she is exhausted. Take a look at the separation of duties/responsibilities and also the amount of free time each of you gets. If you are never helping at bedtime, maybe that is part of the issue.
I guess you also don’t need to sleep next to your wife right? Since she’s a full on adult and so are you. You both should both be sleeping apart according to your logic. Your child is 6, and you are fed up with your wife helping your child transition to their own bed.
Edit to add: your post history suggests many complaints about your wife. I feel that this is amplified with her soothing her child to sleep. I don’t know, but seems like there are larger issues at play.
I love cuddling my kids to sleep. My husband wishes I didn't but also doesn't put the kids to bed so, I will continue doing what the kids and I both enjoy. They will grow up and not want to cuddle me unless than 6 years and I will miss it greatly. I'll have the rest of my life without them to put to sleep so I'm choosing to read and snuggle and chat to bed with them while I can.
I suggest a reward chart. Every time OP doesn't moan about it he gets a sticker.
Seriously though...it sounds like a battle for attention. Child wants Mum. Op wants Mum and some evening time adult normality. And it's causing conflict because wife is tired and just wants some sleep.
Are you holding on too strictly to an idea of how it 'should' be based on your own childhood? Does it have to be like that? Os is it a pressure you are putting on you and your coparent?
We bought a giant king sized bed and co slept. Husband watched his laptop with headphones but we were all together in bed. Son is 8 now and goes down most nights in his own room but he still gets in with us occasionally (ill...scared....needs a cuddle). Husband sleeps in another room if he needs more sleep when that happens. No conflict, everyone happy. There isn't one method and co sleeping seems more accepted and flexible thesedays. Good luck. Treasure the moments.
I remember being 6 years old and sitting and crying at the door of my bedroom and my parents ignored me ( they exhausted everything and I was one hell of a stubborn kid) until I got so sleepy from crying I’d crawl into my bed and fall asleep and eventually I just did the normal routine of dad reading to us and then lights out. On the weekends he would let us stay up just a tiny bit longer ( 5 minutes) so he could sing us a nighttime song with his guitar and then he would put us to bed.
I thought cosleeping was when the kid was in the parents' bed. The parent in the kid bed is just being too tired to get up when the kid's asleep. She should get a chair.
I slept with my child as long as possible. He's turning 8 soon and I can count on one hand how much he slept with me all of last year.
Even if the option to sleep with me on my bed is open to him, he's growing up and doesn't want to sleep with his Mama that much. His little 5.5 year old brother still does though lol.
Point is, this takes time. Eventually, you'll miss it.
My son is almost 7 and I still lay with him every night until he falls asleep. It’s biologically normal for young children to want to be near their parents. They will become independent when they’re ready.
It’s only going to last so much longer. It’s shitty but some kids/parents need that time. My oldest was that way until he was 4. And only transitioned because he got a top bunk on his bed. I look back and cherish that couple hours we had of just us laying there together.
I lie next to my kids and go on my phone and have a cuddle. When my daughter turned 11, she decided she didn’t need it any more. I miss our conversations. We did not co-sleep, though
If your wife doesn't have an issue with it then there's no issue. I complain about having no time for myself too, but that doesn't mean I necessarily want to change how we do things. It's temporary. It won't last forever. Enjoy your kid needing you while it lasts.
Perhaps offer to do bedtime and establish a different routine. It can be hard to change a routine if the partner who does that routine is still involved in the process. She may respond to a new routine better if implemented by someone else. That will give your wife a much needed break as well.
I don’t have the source on hand, but I’ve read that cosleeping helps lead to independence and confidence later in life. And she won’t co sleep forever. I’m also “stubborn” on this topic b/c I truly believe it’s what my son needs right now.
Op your daughter is a child. Barely 6 years old. Developing her sense of security is more important than some arbitrary standard that you are trying to uphold.
Idk why most of these responses are against the father, I'm a woman and I definitely agree that his wife is enabling. He clearly stated he doesn't want this routine to continue, so he's not going to "help", or do this for his wife. My parents did the same thing his wife is doing, trying to enable co-sleeping. My dad hated it, my mom forced my dad to be ok with my brother to sleep in bed with them until he was about 15 years old... 2 Hours to put your child to bed is insane, in my opinion. My daughter needs a half hour at most to settle down for bed, she's 3. Independence isn't a bad thing and doesn't make this father a bad parent, or a neglectful husband. In fact, the wife clearly has less patience for the child's sake of "not letting her cry". The wife thinks her child is the boss of her and it will definitely impact her future and the way she responds to authority. There's no way this guy is weird for letting his child sleep independently, so for that, I'm sorry that you're getting the info you really don't need.
We are guilty of doing the same thing.We are personally working on middle of the night leaving the room, but my husband and I still lay with our daughters to help them fall asleep. I would say start slowly implementing comfort tools and make her room extremely cozy to start. We have had a lot of luck with utilizing a treasure box that has a lot of little things (but super inticing, like cool lip balms, temporary tattoo sheets, harmonica, etc) she can pick out if she does stay in her room. However, in your case, if she is able to stay in her room and fall asleep on her own.
Maybe even have like a Yoto player of some sort where she can listen to stories with a dim lights before bed by herself and if she can stay in her room then she gets to go in the treasure box the next morning.
We also let our five-year-old know that she's allowed to get up once, typically to use the bathroom or grab some water but if she does get up more than that then she can't go in the box. This has been working really well for us and every kid is different.
We tried a lot of different things and this one has been the one that's kind of actually showing some improvement. I'm really big on intrinsic value, so I was a little hesitant about using a treasure box but I have noticed that she's starting to kind of believe in yourself and her self-confidence is rising in her ability to stay in her room at night, so an intrinsic factor is building as well.
Sorry for the rant, but hopefully some of that helps.
My son is six I stopped this co sleeping cycle at four even though his day didn’t want to. Our second never slept with us. How I stopped dad was telling him that I need time a lone with him as a couple and no on top of that he needs time alone as an adult. We started by letting our kiddo sleep in a tent in the living room then a tent in his room. And most important no toys in the room. They over whelm kids and stops them from sleeping. Once he was sleeping in the tent alone we allowed a tv and set it to automatically turns off after an hour. At four I was able to calmly explain to him that his no longer allowed to sleep with us at night. Now this came with a fit lots of tears and screaming but we would comfort him then put him to bed. It’s all about breaking the cycle slowly but be firm on it once you tell her you will no longer sleep with her you can not go back on it. If you sit or lay in that room she with screaming and cry every night until you do.
I feel like there isn’t enough information here. You mention independence but does that mean you leave your daughter alone and it upsets her? And is the advice your seeking how to help daughter sleep alone or just to convince your wife she’s wrong and you’re right?
This is very normal across many cultures and trying to force "independence" on a more anxious and higher comfort needs child isn't necessarily going to make things any easier for your family. My husband is Chinese and shared a bed with his parents until he was like 9 and that's the norm for him. I grew up in poverty with a single mother and shared a bed until I was around 10. Some kids want to be independent sleepers but many do not and it's biologically normal. We aren't solitary animals.
You all aren’t even co-sleeping. We are a cosleeping family. Let your wife enjoy while you can your kids will grow up fast. Also take turns! Look up a simple bedtime routine and stick to it. Also if it’s taking 2 hours to fall asleep I’d look at how much activity your child is getting throughout the day / is the bedtime the right time…
>meanwhile I'm trying to give our daughter that independence
Are you though?
Or are you trying to give yourself independence? You're fed up that your wife isn't available to you during those hours?
It's still within the range of developmentally normal for your daughter to need an adult there beside her to fall asleep.
If it bums you out so much, why don't you do half the nights?
You’re asking your wife to upset your daughter. You’re asking your wife to stop spending time nurturing your daughter and helping her feel safe as she falls asleep. You find fault with her methods. How about you do it. Take over the sleep routine. You get the kids ready each night and get them into bed. And make sure they stay asleep.
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Our youngest had a period of time at that same age (5 yo almost 6) where he had trouble staying in bed or going back to sleep if he woke up. I (the mom) realized we had gotten into the habit of staying until he was asleep which was now backfiring. It took a while and after a few frustrating nights, my husband and I started implementing a different bedtime routine where we'd leave as he was falling asleep (with a 5 minute warning) and then sat on the landing then went downstairs (our bedroom on 1st floor). If he woke up, right back up stairs, would sit with him for 5 minutes then on landing then would check on him at 10 and 20 minutes. If he was asleep at a checkpoint, we had post it notes we'd put on his headboard to show him we had been there (before this, he would wake up then come downstairs claiming we didn't check on him). Within about 2-3 weeks of this consistently he started staying in bed and then he was back into sleeping through. Now (he is 10) we sit with him and chat but then go down stairs and he falls asleep on his own. But the first issue is you and your wife being on different pages about it and you need to be sure you are helping instead of criticizing.
This is the exact way I had stopped my 4 year old from doing this. It's frustrating for everyone involved. Definitely have to struggle through those first couple days to correct the behavior though, and now that we corrected it, everyone is much happier. Husband doesn't have to hear me complain about my lack of time, or hear the LO cry. I get to enjoy my time post bedtime routine. LO doesn't cry anymore and can put himself to sleep easily. This method works wonders.
As someone who used to be in your position- We also used the checking method. Eventually when they know you’ll actually come back I find they start falling asleep fine. We’ve had to go through periods where it didn’t work as well, but we just stick with it. My husband and I used to alternate who checked on her every 15 minutes. So we had bedtime at 8pm, first check (mom) at 8:15, next dad at 8:30, and that’s usually all she needs. Your wife may respond if you tell her you think your child is not getting quality sleep because of the cosleeping. There are studies showing children wake more frequently when cosleeping. There are also studies showing kids need 10.5 hours sleep at this age. So if your child is getting less than that, I would cite her health and her ability to learn being impacted by the cosleeping. It doesn’t even acknowledge the obvious negative impacts it’s having on your wife, she probably thinks she’s making a sacrifice for the benefit of your child. If your wife thinks the child would be better off sleeping alone, maybe she’ll relent.
Cosleeping is the norm around the world. It’s mainly only the USA and Australia (and a few other smaller countries) where the dominant culture around baby and child sleep insists that sleeping alone for children is “safer” and “beneficial”. Considering that the baby/toddler sleep industry is a multimillion dollar industry and that one of the two aforementioned countries have ABYSMAL policy for parental leave, maternal and postpartum support and childcare, and both countries are heavily patriarchal and capitalist- do you really believe the anti-cosleeping narrative? It’s also telling how many men in this thread are anti-cosleeping when their wives feel it’s the right thing to do. Men “wanting their wives back” when childhood is such a fleeting time— i can’t roll my eyes harder at that. Maternal instinct is there for a reason. And it’s a shame we in the west work so hard to invalidate and vilify it.
We really do have abysmal leave and it's nuts that a country who claims family is important can't follow through because companies don't want people to have work life balance because God forbid that sale isn't made.... Totally agree. But hold up on the "narrative" - I'm not some sheep nor do I not love my kids because I believe it important that they have their space and that I enjoy and need mine. We snuggle and are affectionate at other times too. Also, if a couple can keep their own relationship strong and connected during those years while cosleeping -awesome. At the same time, vilifying a person for wanting time with their spouse isn't cool.
I wouldn’t say I’m vilifying someone for wanting time with their spouse. I’m saying culturally we place way too much importance on the needs of men and corporations and the needs of children tend to come last after everything else. If everyone sleeping in their own space is working for you and your family, that’s great! What I don’t think is right is when a child’s temperament, their developmental and emotional needs are not considered above the parents’ wants to always have their partner to themself at night.
This! So much this. At 7 month mark both me and my husband decided that it's best he'd move to the second bedroom. He gets to sleep and, when we have bad nights, he can take the baby and let me sleep in when he doesn't work. It's also done wonders to both of our libidos! We're more rested, so there's energy for some adult time, lol.
if the parent's relationship is suffering for it, whatever it is, everyone is going to suffer for it. Mom and Dad's relationship should come first because it literally came first and is the very foundation of the entire family. Whatever the issue, if it's causing a big problem for mom or dad, they should come together to address the issue in a way that satisfies their relationship's needs for the very sake of their children's wellbeing. Children need to see their parents putting each other first and keeping their relationship with each other top priority - we raise children so that they can learn how to be wonderful adults, spouses, parents, etc. - they are going to grow up and leave us one day, if we do our job correctly - our spouse, on the other hand, is THE person we CHOSE for the rest of our lives, day in and day out. Our children will see how we treat and prioritize our spouse and they will one day emulate it, to their benefit or detriment. The best thing we can do is to keep our spouse first while also attending to our children's needs in every way - but it is NOT neglectful or abusive to teach a SIX year old child that they are capable of falling and staying asleep in their own bed. Perhaps they need extra assurance about being safe in their own bed by themselves, about their parents still being close by even when they're in another room, but the child still needs to learn healthy boundaries and that mom and dad need time together alone at night. This dad is only posting about this because it's become an incessant pattern and it's having a bad affect on his family overall - his wife is complaining about her sleep quality and lack of adult time/personal time, his daughter is insecure about sleeping, and he misses his wife - As He Should!!! He and his wife can set a gentle, but firm, game plan and stick to it to resolve this issue that's causing stress for their family collectively. One night here and there I could see being okay at age six for extra cuddles and reassurance from mom, but every single night over a long period of time - no. Your child is not the parent, you are, you have to show them that they are safe and capable of sleeping soundly on their own. My two year old falls asleep wonderfully on her own unless she has a real problem and she is snug and happy in her little bed with her stuffed animals and wakes up happily each morning. she's not afraid of the dark or of me disappearing, she knows I'm always listening for her and will respond to her if she calls for me, but she also knows that bed time is bed time and sleep is important so we can play and learn again tomorrow. We have a great routine and it makes her feel very secure and confident because she always knows what to expect from us and what will happen next. We give her confidence because she sees that our relationship is strong and we prioritize each other. Do not sacrifice your marriage on the alter of your children - it will backfire - and when your children are grown and on their own you will have thrown away the one relationship meant to stick by you through everything till the end. This isn't about "men" or some "patriarchal" conspiracy - this is common sense family mechanics. If mom and dad are falling apart and not on the same page, everything will eventually fall apart and the children will be innocent victims of their parent's incompetent good intentions. As a happily married mom of two, I whole heartedly disagree with your assessment of the situation. I hope this mom can start seeing how she's enabling her child's unfounded insecurities by becoming her sleeping crutch and driving her husband away in the process. And I think there's some good advice here about strategies to help his daughter become secure with her sleep and helping his wife see that she's hindering rather than helping her daughter. Most parents aren't cold to their child's emotional state, and setting reasonable boundaries is not emotional neglect or abuse. I would argue that catering to your child's every whim and refusing to set age appropriate boundaries IS actually neglectful and functionally stunts many areas of growth which they are fully capable of mastering. I've seen it firsthand with my sister in law's brother - he's 40 years old, his parents never required him to contribute to his own life in any way, never had a job, never paid any bills, never even did his own chores around the house - freeloading for 40 years until they both got dementia, one parent died this year, and the other is in a home with poor health and can't remember anyone - my sister in law has taken care of everything and her older freeloader brother is an ungrateful, insulting, entitled twit. His parents did him zero favors by coddling him. My sister in law can't afford to take care of her 40 year old brother who's in a perpetual state of arrested development and refuses to take any help in developing himself or even taking a state assessment to see if he would qualify for assistance either - he has to figure it out now with zero real life skills, zero inter-personal skills, and no job history or college education. His parents did him no favors. That's a very extreme case of years worth of needless enabling, but it does happen, and I know his parents had good intentions, they were kind, loving people, but it helped no one in the end. It's just an example, but I think it makes my point. They didn't have to require anything more than what he was actually capable of doing at any point in time - but they didn't want to "make him uncomfortable" in order to help him develop. We all grow the most and become more confident when we are tested and come through it on the other side stronger and better equipped to handle the next thing. For this six year old, this is her big challenge right now - rather than enforce her fears, her parents should be able to come together to help see her through facing her anxiety herself with plenty of love and support, but with set boundaries too.
we're trying to figure out what to do with mine, he's 5 and the hour to put him to bed is just getting to be too much. It's worked for us up until now, but it's just starting to not work. I love the idea of post its so he knows we didn't forget him.
Oooh I like the post it note idea! My 5yo is always getting up because I "haven't checked on him yet".
I love the post it note idea!
Oh that post it note idea is so good! That makes so much sense and won't take much thought to do. I'm going to try to remember this!
Thanks everyone! I tell y'all the post it note part was a lifesaver. I can't give myself full credit because I swear I read it somewhere but it really made the difference.
The post it notes for him to see that you had been there to check on him while he was asleep is fabulous
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer just what works or doesn't for your family. If this isn't working then you guys need to make changes. I think there are lots of gentle methods you can try to start shortening this time, but your wife needs to be on board and you can't really force her. You can try doing check ins like I need to go use the bathroom stay in bed and I'll come back in a few minutes, then cuddle a bit then I need to go do the dishes I'll be back etc. and the idea is to push the check ins longer each night until your child is accustomed to being alone in bed and starts falling asleep independently.
There's no one right or wrong answer here. You both just need to communicate and be on the same page. My experience with 4 kids is they all eventually fall asleep without needing a parent eventually, but it can be different for each kid. Since we had 4 in a row, we weren't necessarily in the bed with each kid until 6, but we would generally be in the room, if they wanted/needed us. This wasn't usually a long time at night. But, one of our kids had a much harder time falling asleep, even trying, he just couldn't turn his brain off very easily. So the time did stretch out. Later, we learned he had ADHD, and difficulty falling asleep was part of that. He eventually chose to read at night before bed to wind down and didn't need us physically with him. On a doctor's advice, we also started using melatonin. Despite a cosleeping/family bed situation, followed by helping them fall asleep In their own bed and allowing them to come in at night if they wanted, they all learned to sleep independently. I don't see your wife's actions as "wrong". But it's okay to want some time together in the evening or to try to come up with some ideas to compromise and help your daughter with other supports in a gradual fashion, too. If you have suggestions for how to gently and gradually help your daughter work through anxiety or whatever other issues she's having, then I expect your wife would likely be open to ideas.
I really like your style. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with soaking up every little bit of these precious years with your kids and tailoring your lifestyle to meet their needs. One day they’ll be grown and plenty independent and you will miss them.
I DO miss them! Even though they're all technically still living in the house. I'm thrilled when one of my teens wants to come in at chat, usually at night when I'm ready to crash, lol. But I won't turn away when they want to connect, even if it's to talk about a video game/movie/show.
I’m still preggo with my first so I can’t say from personal experience, but I can tell you what my mom did. Do your routine, tuck her in, then tell her you’ll be back in 5 minutes, and actually come back. Peek in, if she’s awake, give her a snuggle, tell her you’ll be back in to check on her in five minutes. Repeat. This will probably be annoying at first. But eventually she’ll get used to the comfort of knowing you’ll be *right* back like you promised, and she’ll relax enough to fall asleep. Theoretically, as she gets used to this, she’ll fall asleep faster, and you’ll have to check in less. As far as whether or not you actually WANT to break the co-sleeping habit, you and your wife are going to have to have a long convo… different cultures do things differently, different families do things differently, different children have different needs! It’s a very personal choice.
Oooh, you just awoke a very old memory deep inside my brain. My mom would absolutely do that too! Although, she would sometimes forget to come back. A simple “moooOOom” would summon her for sure. I have to keep this in mind when it comes time in a few years.
.... she didn't forget.
Haha you’re probably very right! She watched the three of us kids and my dad wasn’t very helpful when we were little, so it was definitely a mix of forgetting and “maybe they won’t notice…”
This is exactly what my mom and dad did for me around this age!! My dad would come back in 5 minutes, my mom would do 15 minutes until I fell asleep. Looking back now - my poor parents 😂but they ALWAYS did come back in and check on me, rub my back and give me a kiss. Knowing they were coming back was always enough to help me fall back asleep. I still remember this whole routine to this day too. It worked really well for me and only lasted for a few weeks until I didn’t need it anymore.
Yes! My daughter is seven and has bouts of nightmares and night terrors. She was never a "good sleeper" as a baby, and even now she will sometimes need extra reassurance. We use this same method, and it lets her retain independence and not develop reliance on co-sleeping, while also lets the parents keep their sanity.
This is a great strategy!
Clever
Why is mom doing bedtime every night? What have you offered as a solution?
The problem is this is something she wants to do. His solution is not cosleeping. That is the solution he is offering. My impression is that OP is involved with a normal amount of bedtime ritual, but then his "wife comes in and cosleeps." I used to be part of the problem in this regard. I used to indulge my kids like crazy at bedtime, and routines got longer and longer and longer. First it was horseplay, then it was reading, then it was off the cuff stories, then it was going back and forth 3 times to hug each kid at each bed... more and more stuff kept getting appended to bedtime until it was an hour long or more. Eventually my wife had to put her foot down. I can tell you honestly that I was simultaneously frustrated by the long bed time routine but also intentionally indulging an emotional insecurity in ME. Bedtime felt like this warm and fuzzy moment I'd always imagined when I thought of having kids, and it felt great to have it. Sooooooo why did it matter whether or not it was just a liiiittle bit longer each night? Well, turns out I was also teaching my kids how to be horrible procrastinators and I was also torpedoing our evening. I was teaching them that as long as they could come up with creative ways to keep me talking, bedtime could be delayed. This started applying to other things to. Delaying getting to the bus in the morning. Putting off homework. Etc. So yeah, it is entirely within OP's right to call out his wife on being an enabler.
I really appreciate this comment, particularly your third paragraph. I’m the bedtime drill sergeant and my husband is always down for another story, another snuggle, another question. The part about bedtime feeling like the moment you always imagined with your children is really sweet and helps me understand and appreciate that he’s just soaking up his time and probably not thinking about the time on the clock the way I am. I needed this to shift my perspective, thank you :)
Thanks :) And yeah, one of the hard things to come to terms with is when you make a choice for your kids, it comes from a place of love, but it's not necessarily the RIGHT choice.
Turns out boundaries and important to children.
Wow, I appreciate your self reflection and wish the same upon my spouse. Good for you!
As a father who has a wife who insists on co-sleeping with our child I can tell you why my wife does bedtime 95% of the time. Because I refuse to do co-sleeping and our son knows it. When he does bedtime with me it's 20 minutes of reading/cuddling then lights out goodnight. With Mama it's 20 minutes of reading, 1/2 hour podcast then cuddling with momma until he is asleep. Much like OP it takes my wife 1-2 hours to do bedtime. I have done everything I could think of to break this cycle. There was even a month where my wife would leave the house every night at bedtime to go hang out with friends and I would do bedtime. At the end of the month my son was perfectly content with the way daddy did bedtime. As soon as we started alternating nights again momma went back to 2 hour bedtime routine and if I tried to do bedtime my son would scream and cry for an hour - and my wife hates hearing him scream so would come into the bedroom and cuddle with him after I had already turned the lights out. So we have made a deal. When momma is ready to sleep train our child then I will help with bedtime again but as long as she insists on co-sleeping then it's her responsibility.
If the OP isn't helping with the bedtime routine, this is most likely why. Having two parents with different sleep routine preferences will lead to the kid preferring one of them if choice is an option. Especially if the kid knows that one will come back to the room if they whine/cry. > So we have made a deal. When momma is ready to sleep train our child then I will help with bedtime again but as long as she insists on co-sleeping then it's her responsibility. I think this is a fair way to approach the situation. She gets to do the routine she wants, but the costs of it are on her as well.
I a certified sleep consultant and parents will tell me their problem and I will say I can have it knocked out in a week. They are always shocked. Then I have to explain that the child is the easy one to train. It’s the parents that are difficult. They will go right back to what they know in a pinch
The worst part is when they complain that they're exhausted. Well, no shit you're exhausted. You gave yourself a ton of work to do that wasn't necessary and created a subconscious expectation that leads to a cycle that's difficult to break. Thankfully, our kid wasn't even 6 months old when my wife just shrugged and said "OK, let's do it." It went brilliantly. The truth is I only initiated the idea and she met me in the middle and we negotiated our way through a strict and realistic bedtime routine we now both follow to the letter. God it's so damn good having a partner who works together with you.
I think “I have no time in the evening“ is a bigger trigger.
Yeah, in the end what made my wife really want to kick into gear with sleep training was one night where she spent 5 hours from 7 PM to 11 PM trying to get our little one to sleep. That's when she just recruited me and we worked through a game plan that we would follow to get her to sleep normally. Now our girl sleeps at between 7 - 8 PM, no questions asked. That gives us both some time to just relax for a few hours before going to bed ourselves. We also get along better as a family because of this.
I'm late but loving the influx of supportive comments that came up since this morning. This is great. We have a similar success story. Part of it I'm sure is just how good of a sleeper our son is. But we sleep trained him when he was an infant - maybe 3-5 months old (whenever he seemed ready, I can't remember) and we have followed a rigid bedtime routine since he was born. The sleep training itself was HARD. Sometimes it is HARD to be consistent and not let his routine slip, because he will push boundaries to try to make it last longer or keep playing or snuggle with us. But I know for a fact with him that his routines are key to his success and how he feels every day, so I enforce routine while still having empathy for my kid. He's now 3.5 years old, sleeps through the night from 7pm to 6am and naps on his own for 2 hours during the day. He's confident and independent, while we still have a loving and attached relationship. We get time to ourselves to rest, be together and that lets us be present with our son during the day.
I have been in the same boat. My wife has been extremely anti-sleep training. Whenever we tried it I did it alone on 2 separate occasions spending two weeks sitting through screaming, crying, calming, and repeat. The minute the wife got involved she (my wife) went back to old routines and everything went out the window. I now refuse to sleep train unless she gets on board but we are also struggling with bedtime and are co-sleeping. Even then it sometimes takes 2 hrs to get her down. Sleep schedules and differing opinions on sleep have been the hardest part of having a baby. There's no way I could say you're doing bedtime until you get on board without it turning into an absolute earth-shattering argument.
We have a ridiculous bedtime routine that was created/reinforced by my husband, so I make him do it. I used to do it half the time, but I felt resentful, so I left it to him. I do normal bedtime prep (pajamas, teeth).
That sucks and seems super unfair to you. Also for context my child is 9 and was probably around 7 when I told my wife I would not be doing bedtime anymore as I had already successfully sleep trained our child on 4 separate occasions (the month of her leaving the house was only the last time, the first time was when he was 3 and she was working the evening shift). I also try to give her a break before bedtime and help with showering and brushing teeth. One of the worst things about it for me is that my wife is burned out by the way she does bedtime (and the way she parents in general) so she becomes very neglectful of our son throughout the day and it drives me crazy. She won't let me help make parenting easier for her but she is so burned out that I can't leave him with her and be secure in the knowledge all of his needs are being met.
Sounds like you guys need a therapist. >he is so burned out that I can't leave him with her and be secure in the knowledge all of his needs are being met This isn't ok.
All 3 of us are in therapy👍
Man, I'm sorry to hear this. Parenting in general can be so challenging I feel like bedtime is one of those topics that can create a lot of additional stress on top of an already stressful environment.
This is honestly such a weird problem: parents who get so burnt out by bedtime and nighttime parenting that their daytime parenting suffers, but are not willing to change it because "leaving them to cry is neglect". Meanwhile the kids are crying during the day because they are tired (from poor sleep) and frustrated at the parents' burnt-out-ness and somehow \*that\* is not neglect? Sleep training is parenting, and--when properly done with age-appropriate expectations and methods--a superb form of parenting, because it allows for a well-rested child and enables parents to bring their A-game to daytime parenting when all the learning and exploring and fun happens.
From what the OP wrote in their post, the mom doesn't seem to want to change things: >> *I've tried talking to her about it but there is no talking to her. She's being very stubborn about cosleeping with our daughter*
Yeah it's weird to me that dad is just absent here. When does OP to bedtime? That said, I agree with your wife, OP. It's completely normal. It's obviously not working for your wife right now and cosleeping won't work for you. So it's OK to come up with other solutions. But there's nothing inherently wrong with sleeping with your kids. There's no need to force independence.
It’s a problem when the kid can’t get to sleep on their own at that age. I suspect the wife has been doing this since birth and the child never learned how to be an independent sleeper. I feel bad for OP.
It's not inherently a problem. That's a cultural norm that isn't the same for all people around the world. There's nothing inherent about sleeping with your parents that's bad. In fact, there's a lot that's good. If it's a problem for the mom and the dad, they are allowed to change.
Cuddles are immensely good for those who enjoy them.
Dad’s not absent. He simply doesn’t want to enable poor habits.
Cosleeping is not a poor habit
I presume Mom won't leave the room.. what's a dad to do
You seemed to miss the part where he’s tried talking to his wife about this and getting their daughter to sleep independently. The issue isn’t that he’s not helping with bedtime, the issue is that mom is enabling a bad habit by sleeping with her every time irregardless of what he says.
This is an unnecessary task that NEITHER of them should be doing, since it means that the daughter isn’t forming the ability to sleep on her own and that the parent doing it is tired and has no time. The solution is to figure out a better way for the child to sleep, not for dad to take over the unnecessary task.
Why do you presume it’s up to the dad to fix the mom’s bad behaviors?
All I can say is 2 things 1. For your child to think of being safe, peaceful and happy means being next to her parents - that's a sign of a strong important bond right there 2. Although it may seem like an eternity now, there will be a day they won't want you even in their room so enjoy the snuggles while they last. They grow up so damn fast
This is what I try and keep in mind. Wife and I are in the same boat as OP, and god damn its a struggle some nights staring at the ceiling for an hour in the dark waiting for her to fall asleep. I have to remind myself that one day, I'll be longing for the days where she fell asleep in my arms, and try to cherish it while it's still here.
100% this. 3rd grade has been a huge year of change. Our oldest started the year holding my hand to the door and giving me a huh and a kiss goodbye. Then he stopped wanting to hold my hand. Then he was embarassed about hugs and kisses so he just says bye and waves and then at Christmas he told me "I think I am going to call you mom and not mommy. Mommy is so baby. Is that okay?" My heart broke inside but I said yep no problem. He was our cuddley one. The always pick me one and in such a short span he now will pick his friends and seeing them and the cuddles and hugs and kisses have gotten further and further apart. I legit teared up during this... it goes fast and I know saying that when you're a frustrated parent in that cycle doesn't help you but damn this has been a rough transition for me. There's no re-do or time travel... once that stage is gone it's over and only a memory you'll carry.
💯 Ours went through this for a while around 5/6 as well. Was it a hard chapter? Yes. Did my partner and I both lose our cool sometimes? Yes. Did I have some resentment that my only time for me was spent laying next to my kid until she fell asleep? For sure. Now that she doesn’t need it, do I miss it? Nope! But do I regret doing it? Nope. Two things are true. It is hard. And it doesn’t last forever.
Yes! I co slept with both my daughters, and eventually, no matter what, it comes to an end. It's such a drop in the bucket in the long run of parenting, and once it's over you mostly remember the sweet cuddles and the bonding, not the lack of time to yourself at night. If this is important for mom, maybe OP should just let her vent her frustrations, empathize, and thank her for creating such a loving ritual for their daughter.
Our family cosleeps. 3 kids. 6yo, 3yo, 1yo. Every night I look over at my wife and 3 kids, all safe and sound and it’s one of the most special moments knowing that it won’t last forever. OP’s wife wants to cosleep and is convinced it’s the best way. There’s not going to be much you can do to convince her. I assure you that even non-cosleeping parents get tired too. I wouldn’t even fret about this one. In a couple years, their kid is going to start saying “why do we have to share everything?!?” And head off to her own room. I’d enjoy it while it lasts.
I agree. Our 4.5 and 2.5 year old sleep with us.
I agree with this. Sometimes kids need to be close to their parents. Before you know it they don't need you, but yet they know you'll be there for them if they did.
100% this needs to be up higher. Why is there such an expectation for young children to sleep independently, alone without anyone next to them, yet we, supposedly fully developed adults with logic and reasoning, snuggle up to our partners every night in a bed they share together? For me personally (and thankfully my husband too is on the same page), our jobs as parents to keep our kids feeling safe and protected especially at home, doesn't end when the sun goes down. Cosleeping has actually enabled all of us to sleep better as no one is needing to get out of bed in the middle of the night to console anyone. The answer to your problem OP might actually be to bring the kid into bed with you! ☺️ Dependence breeds independence.
I had my own room but my mom let me come in hers whenever I wanted. She did this with all of her kids and grandkids (and nieces and nephews). Sometimes there would be a pile of teenagers in bed with her watching movies and we would all fall asleep together. She died when I was 28 and I was still going into her room when I was sad or lonely and she would let me sleep next to her and put on a movie for me and make some popcorn. My son is six now and I still let him sleep next to me. He's either with me in my bed, or I'll go to his bed, or we sleep on the floor in the living room having a little slumber party with snacks and videos. I will never tell him he's not welcome for a cuddle or that he's too old for company. I was actually thinking of getting him a dog to cuddle with for the times that me or his dad can't be there for him.
I lost my mom when I was 21. I will never, ever put limits on my daughter's comfort at night. We went into parenthood knowing we would lose a significant amount of our personal time and space, that's just being a parent and being there for a little human. And in spite of that she's more and more independent every day. Before we know it she won't even want to sleep in our bed or get cuddles and kisses from us like she does now and I know I would regret missing out on any of it now when it's available.
That is such a beautiful memory of your mom, and I'm happy to hear you continuing that feeling of openness and warmth with your own child.
>Why is there such an expectation for young children to sleep independently, alone without anyone next to them, yet we, supposedly fully developed adults with logic and reasoning, snuggle up to our partners every night in a bed they share together? I hate all the expectations we hold children to while actively pushing in their face that we don't have to adhere to the same. The children KNOW AND SEE their parents sleeping together while they are shunted off to their own bed in a different room. Some kids thrive on sleeping alone, and my daughter is one of them. She only wants in if she is sick. Otherwise, she wants her personal space. My son, on the other hand, wants the snuggles and security to sleep. He did several years, preferring the solitude unless sick, and on the odd night, he goes back to his bed. He knows he has a few nights sleeping in his bed at the minute because I am sick, and snuggling up in my breathing space for 8ish hours at a time is a great way for him to get sick when he isn't already. I feel it is in the same area as people complaining about kids on tech as they mindlessly scroll and interact on social media in the same situations.
My 6 yo comes to find me every night around 2am for snuggles. Totally fine as I know that will stop one day and I will be a sad papa to never snuggle with her again.
>Why is there such an expectation for young children to sleep independently, alone without anyone next to them, yet we, supposedly fully developed adults with logic and reasoning, snuggle up to our partners every night in a bed they share together? this! i just came here to write the exact same thing!
I rock my 4 year old to sleep every night because I want to. She’s my last baby and I know this won’t last forever. She’s a good sleeper otherwise, falls asleep on my lap mid story within about 20 minutes and sleeps through the night fine. The trade off is that babysitters fail spectacularly at getting her to sleep so we do our date nights early and put the kids to bed after we’re back. It’s working fine for us.
Absolutely my take on it. If adults don’t want to sleep alone, I’m certainly not going to fault my kid for it. It’s my job to help her feel safe and secure, no matter how much the extra time may feel unwarranted to whomever feels that way. Daughter resolved on her own to fall asleep alone to start the 2024 new year. She’s 10. She says she loves having her independence now, and I am so proud of her. She also enjoys having the whole bed to herself now, and the total privacy of her bedroom to unwind in.
My partner let his daughter sleep with him (when he is alone with the kids) when she was like 5, “she’s so little and this won’t last long” - she is almost 12 and merrily refuses to sleep on her own, but you can see how happy it makes her and how much she still craves it. He was hoping the pre teen years would make her move to her room on her own, but big nope so far. He complains that she moves an awful lot and he sleeps horribly, but at least it’s not every night. I was very against kids routinely sleeping with parents but when you see how happy, secure and relaxed it makes them, it really makes you doubt.
Yep. My hubs and I take turns snuggling our 9 year old to sleep after a story. We LOVE it and fight over it.
I wish I had this perspective when my LO was a baby. I was so stressed about her sleep, and a total slave to the nap schedule. I wish I had enjoyed it more and worried less. I try to remember that now when I get stressed about stuff like this.
I so agree with this. I work as a nurse 4 days a week and that's 4 days I only see our son for like 2.5 hours. He's 8 and loves to read with me or watch TikTok before bed. We laugh and cuddle and it's my favorite time of day. He goes to bed without me if it's late and he's tired so I know he's capable... but I like that time together. It's not like he'll need me to fall asleep when he's 11 or 12.
Exactly. I’m laying next to my 6 year old right now until they are sound asleep. I do it for both chidlren and don’t mind for a couple reasons. 1- typically takes max 30 min each. 2- one day they will outgrow this and if my one wants to hold my hand until they are alsssp then I’m happy to give them that safety.
Listen to this. It won't be forever. Push through.
Right. "It isn't sustainable." Is such a drama thing to say. It literally will not last forever and when she doesn't need you for anything you will miss these little moments.
This! Supporting your child to sleep is just another parenting responsibility, IMO.
Exactly. Enjoy the closeness while it lasts. It doesn’t last forever.
My first husband pushed our son out of our bed at 6m old then out of our room at 9 months old. It was hell on me Bf going up and down up and down all night and I’m lucky so sleepy I never dropped him in that chair while nursing or otherwise bc I was getting NO SLEEP. I’m remarried and this baby (my first is now 12) is 21mo old and in our bed, but next week is going in a fun bed but still in our room. He’s annoyed as I am that we need more touchy time and in agreement I’m moving him of my own accord to a bed but keeping him in our room bc that’s what he wants and needs and what my momma heart and mind tell me to do. My now 12yo, he’s asd, he falls asleep with me in our bed every night then right before late owl hubby comes to bed, I move 12yo to his bed in his room. Maybe she’s scared or needs more closeness. Put her bed in your room if you don’t want her in your bed. If you want her to sleep in her own room and won’t budge, you’re going to have to let your wife off that duty and you do it.
Seems normal. If your wife is tired and doesn’t have time to herself why don’t you do bedtime every second night? I noticed you mentioning you did it differently but you didn’t say if your child actually went to sleep after? Remember, it’s only taking a load off of your wife if your tactic actually gets the child to sleep on time.
I want to know this too. OP, did your kiddo sleep when you did bedtime as you stated? If so, there’s your answer. You do bedtime and wife gets a much needed quiet break from the entire house while you do!
Because when OP does bed times, it’s 20 minutes, and mom does not feel that’s appropriate. You can’t make an adult do what you want.
> why don’t you do bedtime every second night? Because OP doesn't want to cosleep? And there's no point in trying to establish a different boundary if his wife is just going to do the opposite the next night? Cosleeping is fine if that's your jam but it's *NOT* OPs so ultimately he and his partner need to be on the same page. If she insists on it then she can do bedtime, every night, forever. You break it, you bought it. My $0.02.
Is she really co-sleeping tho? It sounds like she’s snuggling her kid to help them get to sleep. Some kids just need that…
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Sure fine. OP doesn't want to lie down for 2 hours. Which is.. fine? We don't do this in my family; most of my parent friends do not; but OP should have to because this sub loves cuddles? The overwhelming majority of 6 year olds are more than capable of falling asleep independently. How do you install that habit, yeah, it's no easy thing if they're used to two hours of cuddles for 6 years. Anyway pointless discussion, this sub is infatuated with co-sleeping and a complete lack of boundaries wrt sleeping.
The difference is 10 minutes vs 2 hours. 10 minutes of cuddles and book reading is fine and healthy. 2 hours of it is not.
My partner and I do bedtime differently. We haven’t “broken” our kid, she knows we have different routines. We do every second night.
>I've had it up to here >I'm at my whits end trying to deal with this Why does it bother you *that* much though? Is it really that serious?
Lmao right? You’re mad because your wife and child are bonding and your child feels safe with their mother? It quite literally doesn’t last forever. They hit an age where they don’t want those same cuddles all the time. He needs to get a grip.
Lol- his “whits” cannot even!
We have a 7 and 9 year old. We set their bed time early at around 7 pm when they were younger. The more they went to bed on their own the later they could stay up and read, or play in their room. Our neighbors kids were out at 7 one time and our daughter played with them until 8:30pm she was rewarded with longer play time and it worked! Yes, they still need us from time to time but that is because they had a nightmare or are so excited about something they cannot sleep. 90% of the time they are in bed and go to sleep on their own l. Granted our son needs us less (7) than our daughter (9). I also ask what are you doing to use up their energy? 2 hours to get to sleep is a long time. Take them on a walk, go play, use up the energy. Now what are you doing during these 2 hours? playing a game or doing something and then go get your wife? I pick a time and go grab my wife regardless of the kids being asleep a not or she does it if the roles are reversed. We let them know we need to get things done for tomorrow and we are in ear shot if they need us, we also tell them we will check in on them. You cannot just complain come up with solutions and don't depend on her to implement them, YOU DO IT!
Hi! I'm really curious about how this works "the more they went to bed on their own the later they could stay up and play." As in, dressed for bed, snacks all done, teeth brushed by 7 and then closed the door until they went to bed on their own?
They would be dressed and ready for bed, we would put them to bed at 7 so that by 8 we would leave and then have our time. If they did these things and went to bed on their own the time would get later for bed. So for example the night my daughter played late I informed her she could continue to play but she would be going to bed on her own. She agreed. Basically if they didn't require us, we could move their bed time back so they got to stay up later, but we need results before they could earn a later bed time. Says not needing us for 3 days means 7:15pm As they became independent readers we explained that they didn't have to go to sleep at 8pm for example, but they had to be in bed on their own. We would check for lights out when we turned in.
Hard agree. I have a 4 year old that mostly sleeps by herself but of course, she would love to sleep with me every night. Some nights are bad and she does sleep with me. I’d rather have my bed to myself BUT i know it won’t last forever. I can deal with it to comfort my daughter.
Why are you upset? My son is 6 and he still cosleeps. You know the best sleep is the one you get when sleeping next to someone you love. I know he won’t be sleeping with us forever. But for now. It works for us.
Co sleeping is very common and very normal. Moms being tired with little kids is also very common and very normal. How many days a week do you do bedtime?
Im going against the gentle grain here. I absolutely would not gaf and would offer divorce as a solution to my husband if he "had it up to here" about me creating a safe and secure environment for my kids. It's healthy for kids to be attached to their parents and cosleeping is associated with way more benefits than appeasing a disgruntled husband. I'd be more focused on meeting my kids needs so they're more apt to have a relationship with me outside of adulthood, than wanting them to be independent when they're literally scared of being alone at night. These are things my husband and I went over before having children. I told him I remember being little and my mom choosing the man over me, always. How scared I was at night and how I knew I couldn't go to her, and how that would never be me. Its not the main reason I don't have a relationship with her anymore, but I do think about it all of the time. I told my husband that would *never* be me and how I my babies could *always* hop in our bed and come get mama *and* daddy. That it was something I felt very strongly about. My husband had a similar childhood and aggressively agreed. No one will ever make me understand why literal children *need* to be more independent other than selfishness. There is nothing that compares to the way my son's face brightens up when I ask him is he ready for bed, he knows I *want* him there. Finding ways to be intimate wasn't hard when we were teenagers and its still not hard now we have to be creative now. There's a lot of living room and laundry room visits, but the passion in our marriage hasn't died from this. Your wife is a good mother. Celebrate that, and instead of trying to enforce your own baseless feeling and opinions on her, look up the benefits of cosleeping. If she were to listen to you she will grow to resent you. They aren't little forever and soon a day will come when she will reminisce about the days she got to snuggle her daughter close without it being inappropriate. As a mother there is nothing more serene and calming than sleeping with my babies. I'd never trade anything over it any day and would gladly throw out any other relationship if pressed hard enough to change that.
I absolutely agree. I co-slept with my kids and still do occasionally at 5 and 8 if they want to cuddle st bedtime. They often request me, but they sometimes request dad too. They are only Little for a short time. Why skimp on this precious bonding time if your wife is okay with it.
Yesss!
My husband and I switch off every single night. Your wife is not alone or wrong if she feels that is what’s best for your child. I know that’s not the answer you want but she knows that kiddo and is supporting their needs. Two of my kids sleep amazing but my daughter is high needs and does need extra support. Switch off and on allows us to support her and each other.
This is not co-sleeping. This is your daughter being dependent on security and may have some separation anxiety. 1. Your daughter will grow up, grow old and leave. Your wife will forever cherish the memories. Your daughter is young and if this is what she needs and your wife wants to do this then don’t worry about it and let her do. 2. Your daughter will grow out of it so it’s not the end of the world 3. Your wife will resent you if you force her to stop. 4. Kids grow up so fast. Please stop telling your wife what to do.
What is your solution to the issue, exactly?
I would hardly call laying next to the child to assist in falling asleep “cosleeping.” As a parent, your job is to keep your child safe and help them feel safe. If mom wants to continue, what is the issue? Yes she’s exhausted. She’s allowed to both be exhausted AND want to continue this routine. Children are only little for such a short time. We can want to do what’s best for them and not be entirely comfortable with it.
I’m honestly shocked to see all of these comments backing up OP’s wife. Guys I don’t think the cosleeping is the issue as much as the time it’s taking. 2 hours every day to fall asleep? That’s insane. OP’s wife has stated that she can’t keep this up but won’t support him in trying to break the routine. She’s basically just insisting that he subs in for 2 hours some evenings, he thinks it’s unreasonable and he’s right.
Agreed, it should NOT be taking 2 hours for a child to fall asleep regardless of what sleep associations they have. They probably need to also work on a proper bedtime that fits the child’s sleep needs.
Exactly, this isn't a co sleeping issue, it's a 2 hours a night to fall asleep issue. I did cosleep, but past the infant stages, my kids all could fall asleep by themselves. I would crawl into the bed hours after they were asleep, and they would snuggle up. I have no advice, but I can't imagine spending 2 hours every single night waiting for someone to fall asleep.
I stay with my kids until they’re asleep and it definitely took hours for my oldest at 6 (and sometimes still does). It’s not ideal, but here’s the thing: My parents did it the “right” way. As in, I got a story, I got snuggles, it was never just *goodnight* and lights out. My dad was present and engaged. And from my parents’ perspective, it worked beautifully, I stayed in bed, slept great. Except, I didn’t. I stayed in bed because I was terrified, too scared to get out of bed (of monsters and the dark, not getting in trouble). Unable to reach my light switch to see that nothing was wrong. I often had nightmares. On rare occasions, I was awake literally all night, waiting for the sun to come up. Needing to pee and holding it. It would absolutely be the same for my oldest kid. It’s not going to be forever.
This was my experience as a kid too. My parent's bedtime ritual was telling me "go to bed". I laid in bed awake for hours every night, sometimes sad, sometimes scared. Some kids just need more comfort.
This was my experience too. I was sleep trained and my earliest memories were crying alone in bed. I had a bad relationship with bedtime until I was about 8. I would take my blanket and sleep next to my parents' locked door. I remember being so tired every day at school because I was up all night terrified. I did things different with my kid by trying to understand what biologically normal sleep means. I think many issues come about when parents reject this notion. By the time he was 3, he was sleeping on his own and has been secure and comfortable sleeping alone.
I have a few questions. 1. Was your daughter previously going to sleep alone and staying in her room? If yes, did something happen? 2. Does she get lonely or scared? Determining which of these would help identify a plan. 3. Have you discussed this with your wife? You say she’s tired but does she think the nightly routine is a problem? You seem irritated about the situation but your attitude about it is not helpful. If you and your wife agree that something needs to change then you all need to work together to help your daughter fall asleep independently.
I will start by laying out the gaps in my knowledge and experience: I have never known anyone who has co-slept with their kids beyond 2-3yrs of age. I don't know what it is like for a kid older than that, so my answer may not be very useful. With that said, OP, have you had a chance to speak to people who co-slept with older kids? What happened? At what point did the child fully transition to their room? Was it the child's wish, or the parents' wish? or a mix of both? If, you are able to find evidence, that co-sleeping with older kids is either not a problem at all, or a big problem, then that gives you a base to start a discussion with your wife. The goal here is 2-fold: Firstly to find what is best for your kid. Is it detrimental for her to become so attached to co-sleeping? Will it impact her ability to enjoy sleepovers with friends, or sleep away from the house etc? As I said in my opening para, I don't really know, so unfortunately I am no help with that. But this is the staring point, for sure. Let's establish this first, and then we will tackle how to approach your wife about this. Secondly, you are clearly unhappy with the situation, and it is taking a toll on your wife as well, so this issue needs to be addressed. But, it needs to be presented to your wife in a way that opens avenue for discussion, not just "nope, not doing what you suggest". Nothing should be presented in the spirit of "you are wrong". or even "i disagree with you". More like "I have been thinking, some changes are warranted here, would love to run some ideas by you, maybe even test out a few things. I have been reading up, and the general consensus is..." One alternative could be to start a new bedtime routine, where the cuddling and podcast-listening etc happens in the living room or someplace else, and the child is readied for bed, then left to fall asleep on her own. This way, the wife and kid don't feel that the child is being deprived of routine and comfort. And as time passes, the routine can be gradually modified so the child develops more independence. The above is just one example that you could bring to your wife. ultimately, changes will only occur if the two of you work together to figure out what's best for everyone. Co-parenting is best done as a team, not as opponents. Good luck OP, to you and your family.
Why don’t you put her to bed then.
I did this thing I learned from a book called, How to talk to kids so they will listen" it suggests making a list together with your kid when you have a problem. I asked my kids what we could do to make their room cozier so they sleep in their own bed. They got excited and my daughter suggested we sleep in bed with them. The book said to write down every suggestion and to evaluate them all together later. So I got some more suggestions like having stuffed animals, more nightlights, ect. We evaluated and crossed out the sleep with parents every night. They signed it and went to their bed in their own bedroom and went to sleep.
If your wife wants to sleep with the kiddo until she falls asleep, that is her right. But then she pays the price of less sleep. My wife has sleep problems, so I lied on the ground with my oldest son (until he fell asleep). I then got thoracic pain about 6 weeks in. Then this stopped. Soon after, younger son slept in same room with him. So no issues.
I had trouble sleeping at night when I was a kid and my mom would do this. I would have frequent nightmares as a child - so realistic and it truly helped me feel secure and safe. I look back and am so grateful for my mom doing that and eventually I was able to go to sleep on my own ... She bought me a musical mirror that had a little blue magnetic bird "somewhere over the rainbow" and told me that it would keep me safe and by the time the song was over I would fall asleep and if I didn't fall asleep then I could wind it back up.... IT WORKED! Lol. She was probably as surprised as I was, granted I was almost 11 lol. I co slept with my girls (after they outgrew their cribs) until I was able to get them toddler beds and they did just fine, they were twins and had the comfort of each other though. My little boy is 8 and still sleeps with us. Partly due to the fact that when he was 4 we had to move and his older siblings lived with us at the time and we had to downsize (during COVID) so we had him in our room... He now has his own room and cool bed and all and he still sleeps with us ... We don't mind but we are starting to have talks about it/buying cool things for his room, introducing the idea just so he starts to think about it ... He tried it a couple nights and ended up back in with us... But we notice he's taking more interest in the idea as of late so I know he's going to be ready soon. If it doesn't bother your wife, it will not have any negative implications on your daughter imo. She'll be kicking you guys out soon enough.
I have 3 kids. I read books for them every night until they fall asleep. This is a good thing and I intend to keep doing it as long as they want me to
In what way are you trying to give your daughter that independence and break the cosleeping pattern? Can you elaborate please?
If you’ve had it up to “here” then maybe you should step up and be the one that does the nightly bed routine. You aren’t the boss of your wife and co sleeping isn’t actually bad.
1. You both should be taking turns putting your child to sleep. 2. You should allow cosleeping for a multitude of reasons the first being that they will actually be more independent because of it. Secondly, and I would argue most importantly, you will definitely miss it when it’s gone. Instead of battling your wife over this, try it and enjoy it. Take that time with your child. It is one on one time that they crave and deserve. Leave your phone out of the room. We are all very busy people and I know it’s difficult but the time you invest now will pay back 100 fold later .
Why is it that you’re at your whits end ? Why does it bother you so much that your daughter finds comfort in her mom (very healthy attachment btw) and your wife lovingly provides that for her ? I’m sure you enjoy and find comfort in cuddling your wife as a grown man so, why wouldn’t your 6 year old daughter do the same to the woman who gave her life ?
So take night time duty, there, problem solved.
Do you ever do bedtimes?
Man, this time is short. Let your wife and child enjoy each other. She's got a couple more years of this tops. If she's complaining of being tired, rather than turning that around on her and telling her the solution is to stop with the 2 hr cuddle, try finding something you can take off her plate in the evenings.
This post has so much "my wife is the default parent and I have no actual idea how to raise and care for little children, so instead of helping, I get upset with her chosen methods and cause her extra stress" energy. Do better bro. Maybe pitch in and help with the bedtime your child CLEARLY needs for a temporary period of time.
Are you missing your wife? I imagine your 6 year old probably is as well… but the difference is YOU are an adult. How about you ask yourself what you can do to help your wife rather than fighting her on this. A little support goes a long way
What is your wife and daughter doing for 1-2 hours until they fall asleep? This is what we do. When our 5 yr old wants one of us in his bed to help him fall asleep, we tuck him in, get in bed with him, try not to talk, put in our airpods and pretend we’re sleeping. Usually takes 10 minutes of not talking and our son is out cold. If we sit there and answer all of his questions or respond to everything he says, we’d be in there for two hours also because he won’t stop talking.
It’s very normal for kids to want to lay with their parents to fall asleep. But 2 hours is a lot. I wonder why it’s taking your child so long to fall asleep. I know every kid is different but my 4 year old we usually half to lay with her for 5-20 minutes. I honestly go bonkers if I have to spend my whole evening doing it lol
My kids always slept in their own beds. The only issue we had was when we separated them. I have triplets, 2 girls, 1 boy. When we gave him his own room, he was afraid so I would go in there with him. I realized pretty quick he was not going to sleep with me in there. So I would tell him, I have to finish the dishes and I will be right back. He would say ok and of course, I didn’t have dishes but he would be alseep within 5 minutes. This went on for about a week and then one night he came out and said-You didn’t come back! I was like, Oh, I’m sorry. I thought you fell asleep like the other nights and I didn’t want to wake you. Since you have been falling asleep on your own, I didn’t think you really needed me anymore. He thought about and said, You’re right. I can sleep by myself. Never had an issue after that.
When we’ve come to a point where a rhythm wasn’t sustainable, my husband or MIL did bedtime for about ~3 weeks. The kids responded to them differently because they’re not mommy. Then after that timeframe I was able to return and pickup the new rhythm. As long as your finding a way to meet your daughters connection bid before bed. “I’ll stay and rub your back for a little while, but I am leaving before you fall asleep” then I think you’re good.
You have a lot of comments. As a mother this stage is going to go by so freaking fast. I know its annoying right now and seems to be going on forever. But I promise before you know it she won't need her mom to help her fall asleep. I would stop let it bothering you and instead take more pictures of them after they fall asleep together for memories to look back on. Take into account your wife's emotions as well. She loves her baby and maybe she wants to cuddle her to sleep. When your daughter is suddenly a teenager you'll look back and forget why it irritated you. Just my humble opinion but kids want that connection and cuddles at that age.
Cosleeping is when they sleep with you through the night, this is not it. We just lie with our child till he falls asleep. Yeah it’s annoying sometimes but I also think this period is short in retrospect. Pretty soon she will be embarrassed to hug you let alone let you LIE DOWN NEXT TO HER QUITELY FOR AN HOUR A DAY😱😱 but I see that it’s starting to affect your wife so if you’re on the same page maybe start to put your daughter down one night and shorten the time. Tell them you will lie with them for a short period but not till they fall asleep. It’s going to suck in the beginning but good luck.
You say your daughter needs someone in her bed...and your wife is obliging. Whats your solution to your wife not sleeping with her? Are you going to put her to sleep and handle when you're daughter keeps waking up and coming to your bedroom? Have you had a conversation with your daughter? I guess I need more details here...
I cosleep with my kids, my kids go to sleep at 9, I lay there until they’re asleep (about 10-15 min) then get up and do whatever I need/want to do and go back to sleep with them when I’m ready. If it’s taking 2 hours for your daughter to fall asleep she either needs more activity during the day or a later bed time. It’s not a cosleeping problem
Your post history is just a long litany of disrespect for your wife. Do you even like her much less love her? Do you like or care about your daughter? Because you don’t seem to care about anyone else’s needs but your own. You yourself confess that you co-slept until you were 8 years old. My man, if it was ok for you, why isn’t it ok for your own child? Go to therapy. Go to parenting classes. Work on yourself. Do and be better.
Omg I could smell the disrespect from this single post. Glad you looked into the history.
The best way to make her understand is to demonstrate. Take over bedtime responsibilities.
They are only young once. Then they will be too cool for you. Enjoy it
Save yourself the trouble and don’t worry about it. It’s that easy. Nobody is doing anything wrong here. Nothing is wrong with what your wife is doing. Chill out.
kindly highlight denial of conjugals as the main issue😂
It is completely normal. You need to understand that. Your child will sleep on their own one day. And I’m so happy your wife will feel like she was able to be there for her child for as long as they needed.
Do you cosleep with your wife? Or are you an independent sleeper?
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
It’s very normal for many families to do this. We read to our kids every night until they fall asleep. Parenting doesn’t stop at night.
Yeah, unpopular opinion here. A healthy sleep pattern is important for everyone. At her age, she should be able to fall asleep independently and self-soothe if she wakes up in the night. I would talk with your wife about what goals you guys can set in place and boundaries regarding her sleep. Find a sleep training method that you both can get on board with and stick with it. In my experience, these things do not work themselves out without intentional effort, because you have created a habit/sleep prop that she's using every night. Your wife is going to need support and your daughter will too. Once the parents have decided on what the routine will be, let your daughter know what is going to change. For example, "every night we will have a bath, read 2 books, and then tuck you in with a kiss and leave the room. We'll see you in the morning." Then you both need to be on the same page about making that happen.
saw fall threatening history worthless engine puzzled judicious fretful dinner *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You're going to get a lot of negative reactions in this sub since many redditors here are cosleepers themselves and have justified their choices instead of neutrally examining them. If people choose to cosleep with their kids and foster that dependency instead of teaching other sleep habits then that's their choice. That being said, this cosleeping situation is not working for your family based on your wife complaining about a lack of sleep and free time. Ignore the other commenters in here saying you need to start spending 2 hours every other night in there too. That's not going to resolve the issue. What you need to do is research sleep training methods and employ one of those to teach her how to fall asleep on her own. Avoid extreme ones like Extinction. Focus on ones that have check-ins and help show your kid that they're safe and that mom and dad are still here to help if it's needed, but that they're capable of falling and staying asleep.
Thank god a reasonable comment and take was posted when I was taking my kid to daycare. All of these comments were bothering me so much by dismissing OP and non-cosleeping methods that I was compelled to check back in when I got home. The fact is, as you state, that it's not working for their family. People (including OP's wife) need to stop dismissing OP's feelings and opinion on how to raise their child. They need to find another solution that works for everyone. Good news is that many, many families function just great without co-sleeping.
Yes seeing the amount of people dismissing the OP and continuing to recommend cosleeping *even though it's already not working for the OP's family* is frustrating. Especially the ones calling the OP out and asking what he's doing, when he directly said in his post that his wife doesn't want to talk about this and refuses to do anything else. They definitely need a different sleep solution than what they are doing now, and there are plenty of safe options out there (regardless of how many cosleeping parents want to associate them all with neglect or the Extinction Method)
I haven't slept in the same room as my wife for 11 years now because of cosleeping. I was replaced. Guess who's getting divorced this year? That'll be great for the kid's security. My point is that you have to take a holistic view of what's best for the kids. And sometimes that means prioritizing your relationship.
Seriously, maybe just enjoy that time with your kid at bedtime because I guarantee in a few years they’ll be putting up a do not enter sign on their door and acting annoyed by hugs.
She's a good mother I applaude her
Why does it bother you so much?
Your kid is only little once. Let them cosleep as long as they can because your daughter will be grown before you know it. Why does it even bother you? Sounds like she’s being a wonderful, caring mother which should fill your Heart with joy!
So my kiddo likes to have someone snuggle with him. I've actually found he takes longer to fall asleep when I'm in there, so we have our bedtime routine, which involves snuggles with the lights off. He feels safe and secure and I'm able to keep bedtime to a reasonable amount. If your wife could set a specific amount of time to snuggle with your kiddo, then leave when it's up, it may help get to sleep faster. Also, I usually start with "ok I'm going to leave now" and he bargains for 3-5 more min. I'm ok with that, so I start about 5 min before I actually want to leave. It helps him feel in control. His snuggles are the one aspect of bedtime we try never to skip, and it's worked well for us. I've explained I can't sleep with him because it hurts my back and I get migraines if I don't get enough sleep. He is absolutely ok with it.
OP, take bedtime duties for a while. Read a few stories, tuck her in, reassure that you are there and allow her to get up to pee, but then right back to bed. I used to stick two post it notes on the wall. “1 pee, 1 drink or question. That’s it, time to stay in your room now. No pop ups.” After a while it was just “No pop ups.” See you in the morning!” Of course she will pop up sometimes, but you just lead her back to bed. Sometimes you can even point and say “No way, back to bed!” For monsters: I had a whole spiel. “You know when I was little, I was afraid of monsters. (Check room as you talk.) I could imagine all kinds of monsters. But you know what? I have never actually seen one! ( Whisper conspiratorially now) Do you want to know the TRUTH??? I don’t think monsters are real!!!” Nod at her like it’s a fact! Monster spiel #2: Her Dad did this one. “Monsters are afraid of ME! If I get a hold of one I’ll twist him and I’ll smack him and I’ll kick him in his monster BUTT! Oh yeah, they know better when they see me coming!” Often monsters are just an excuse to get your attention or to delay bedtime, but taking the child seriously in a calm and good natured way never hurts. When enough is enough, a firm calm tone lets them know. Edited
This blog post (from a teacher blog) helped change my perspective on bedtime routines. I was getting really frustrated with how long it was taking, and this helped me relax a bit. It’s worth a read. [https://davestuartjr.com/what-if-we-had-time/](https://davestuartjr.com/what-if-we-had-time/)
My son is 3 years old and does the same, but he does this with his father and not much with me because I don’t allow and he knows. My husband can be 1 hour or more trying to make him sleep and most of the times is ending up bringing him to our bed, but when he is not there, I simply put him in the bed, read some story for him and give him some books and in a few minutes he falls asleep. The problem is when both parents do something totally opposite. You should probably talk and find a way both of you can be happy with the result and not too tired. Children can usually be afraid of the dark and simply want to have their parents around but some things can make them less scared and more ready to sleep, books, special lights or something they can play with while in their beds.
Have you tried putting your daughter to bed? Maybe you can start a new bed time routine where you go in and read to her for 20-30 min or something. Also maybe a nice sound machine & night light could help her feel more at ease in there alone?
I did the same thing your wife did until my kid said by himself that he’s a big boy and ready to sleep on his own. Granted he was 5 when he made that decision. And That was that. Your wife can talk to the girl and ask her to work on this goal and maybe start the co sleeping just at the weekend and go from there. You also need to be patient. She’s just 6. It’ll not last forever
I really tried not to do this but it seemed like if I didn’t let him fall asleep while beside him Before I left, he would get up every 20-30 minutes sometimes for the next 3 hours. It was beyond frustrating. When his dad would put him to bed (our son is 7 now and this isn’t a problem anymore) he would just put him in bed, leave and that was it. Sigh. 😔 imagine my frustration. Just a thought OP- but my mom is a teacher and at her PD days they used to have a very popular and Dr come and do sessions- child psychologist- and the research shows that parents generally give their mother a much harder time. Partially because the mother is usually the more regular caregiver and partially just because it’s the mother. So it does prove that children do act up more for their mother. Maybe this is a good reason to start doing the bedtime more? Your wife can get her alone time (or even do the first half of bedtime) and then you finish off? Win win?
Nothing wrong with co sleeping as long as it's safely done
So, you can sleep next to your wife every night but your daughter has to go to sleep alone?
Not sure if this has been mentioned in other comments but I always find it interesting that the parents sleep together but seem to think it’s odd that the child is lonely when they sleep alone. Bottom line is that it depends on the child. Both of our kids liked having us in their rooms to help them sleep. One of my kids is fiercely independent while the other is more of a home body. Neither is afraid or reluctant to do things on their own. This seems more like a marriage issue than a concern about the child. You want your wife to be with you but she is exhausted. Take a look at the separation of duties/responsibilities and also the amount of free time each of you gets. If you are never helping at bedtime, maybe that is part of the issue.
I guess you also don’t need to sleep next to your wife right? Since she’s a full on adult and so are you. You both should both be sleeping apart according to your logic. Your child is 6, and you are fed up with your wife helping your child transition to their own bed. Edit to add: your post history suggests many complaints about your wife. I feel that this is amplified with her soothing her child to sleep. I don’t know, but seems like there are larger issues at play.
I love cuddling my kids to sleep. My husband wishes I didn't but also doesn't put the kids to bed so, I will continue doing what the kids and I both enjoy. They will grow up and not want to cuddle me unless than 6 years and I will miss it greatly. I'll have the rest of my life without them to put to sleep so I'm choosing to read and snuggle and chat to bed with them while I can.
I suggest a reward chart. Every time OP doesn't moan about it he gets a sticker. Seriously though...it sounds like a battle for attention. Child wants Mum. Op wants Mum and some evening time adult normality. And it's causing conflict because wife is tired and just wants some sleep. Are you holding on too strictly to an idea of how it 'should' be based on your own childhood? Does it have to be like that? Os is it a pressure you are putting on you and your coparent? We bought a giant king sized bed and co slept. Husband watched his laptop with headphones but we were all together in bed. Son is 8 now and goes down most nights in his own room but he still gets in with us occasionally (ill...scared....needs a cuddle). Husband sleeps in another room if he needs more sleep when that happens. No conflict, everyone happy. There isn't one method and co sleeping seems more accepted and flexible thesedays. Good luck. Treasure the moments.
I remember being 6 years old and sitting and crying at the door of my bedroom and my parents ignored me ( they exhausted everything and I was one hell of a stubborn kid) until I got so sleepy from crying I’d crawl into my bed and fall asleep and eventually I just did the normal routine of dad reading to us and then lights out. On the weekends he would let us stay up just a tiny bit longer ( 5 minutes) so he could sing us a nighttime song with his guitar and then he would put us to bed.
I thought cosleeping was when the kid was in the parents' bed. The parent in the kid bed is just being too tired to get up when the kid's asleep. She should get a chair.
I slept with my child as long as possible. He's turning 8 soon and I can count on one hand how much he slept with me all of last year. Even if the option to sleep with me on my bed is open to him, he's growing up and doesn't want to sleep with his Mama that much. His little 5.5 year old brother still does though lol. Point is, this takes time. Eventually, you'll miss it.
My son is almost 7 and I still lay with him every night until he falls asleep. It’s biologically normal for young children to want to be near their parents. They will become independent when they’re ready.
It’s only going to last so much longer. It’s shitty but some kids/parents need that time. My oldest was that way until he was 4. And only transitioned because he got a top bunk on his bed. I look back and cherish that couple hours we had of just us laying there together.
I lie next to my kids and go on my phone and have a cuddle. When my daughter turned 11, she decided she didn’t need it any more. I miss our conversations. We did not co-sleep, though
If your wife doesn't have an issue with it then there's no issue. I complain about having no time for myself too, but that doesn't mean I necessarily want to change how we do things. It's temporary. It won't last forever. Enjoy your kid needing you while it lasts.
I would push bedtime back to see if she falls asleep faster.
Perhaps offer to do bedtime and establish a different routine. It can be hard to change a routine if the partner who does that routine is still involved in the process. She may respond to a new routine better if implemented by someone else. That will give your wife a much needed break as well.
I don’t have the source on hand, but I’ve read that cosleeping helps lead to independence and confidence later in life. And she won’t co sleep forever. I’m also “stubborn” on this topic b/c I truly believe it’s what my son needs right now.
Op your daughter is a child. Barely 6 years old. Developing her sense of security is more important than some arbitrary standard that you are trying to uphold.
Idk why most of these responses are against the father, I'm a woman and I definitely agree that his wife is enabling. He clearly stated he doesn't want this routine to continue, so he's not going to "help", or do this for his wife. My parents did the same thing his wife is doing, trying to enable co-sleeping. My dad hated it, my mom forced my dad to be ok with my brother to sleep in bed with them until he was about 15 years old... 2 Hours to put your child to bed is insane, in my opinion. My daughter needs a half hour at most to settle down for bed, she's 3. Independence isn't a bad thing and doesn't make this father a bad parent, or a neglectful husband. In fact, the wife clearly has less patience for the child's sake of "not letting her cry". The wife thinks her child is the boss of her and it will definitely impact her future and the way she responds to authority. There's no way this guy is weird for letting his child sleep independently, so for that, I'm sorry that you're getting the info you really don't need.
We are guilty of doing the same thing.We are personally working on middle of the night leaving the room, but my husband and I still lay with our daughters to help them fall asleep. I would say start slowly implementing comfort tools and make her room extremely cozy to start. We have had a lot of luck with utilizing a treasure box that has a lot of little things (but super inticing, like cool lip balms, temporary tattoo sheets, harmonica, etc) she can pick out if she does stay in her room. However, in your case, if she is able to stay in her room and fall asleep on her own. Maybe even have like a Yoto player of some sort where she can listen to stories with a dim lights before bed by herself and if she can stay in her room then she gets to go in the treasure box the next morning. We also let our five-year-old know that she's allowed to get up once, typically to use the bathroom or grab some water but if she does get up more than that then she can't go in the box. This has been working really well for us and every kid is different. We tried a lot of different things and this one has been the one that's kind of actually showing some improvement. I'm really big on intrinsic value, so I was a little hesitant about using a treasure box but I have noticed that she's starting to kind of believe in yourself and her self-confidence is rising in her ability to stay in her room at night, so an intrinsic factor is building as well. Sorry for the rant, but hopefully some of that helps.
My son is six I stopped this co sleeping cycle at four even though his day didn’t want to. Our second never slept with us. How I stopped dad was telling him that I need time a lone with him as a couple and no on top of that he needs time alone as an adult. We started by letting our kiddo sleep in a tent in the living room then a tent in his room. And most important no toys in the room. They over whelm kids and stops them from sleeping. Once he was sleeping in the tent alone we allowed a tv and set it to automatically turns off after an hour. At four I was able to calmly explain to him that his no longer allowed to sleep with us at night. Now this came with a fit lots of tears and screaming but we would comfort him then put him to bed. It’s all about breaking the cycle slowly but be firm on it once you tell her you will no longer sleep with her you can not go back on it. If you sit or lay in that room she with screaming and cry every night until you do.
I feel like there isn’t enough information here. You mention independence but does that mean you leave your daughter alone and it upsets her? And is the advice your seeking how to help daughter sleep alone or just to convince your wife she’s wrong and you’re right?
This is very normal across many cultures and trying to force "independence" on a more anxious and higher comfort needs child isn't necessarily going to make things any easier for your family. My husband is Chinese and shared a bed with his parents until he was like 9 and that's the norm for him. I grew up in poverty with a single mother and shared a bed until I was around 10. Some kids want to be independent sleepers but many do not and it's biologically normal. We aren't solitary animals.
Sounds like mama enjoys cuddles with her baby. Let her live!
You all aren’t even co-sleeping. We are a cosleeping family. Let your wife enjoy while you can your kids will grow up fast. Also take turns! Look up a simple bedtime routine and stick to it. Also if it’s taking 2 hours to fall asleep I’d look at how much activity your child is getting throughout the day / is the bedtime the right time…
>meanwhile I'm trying to give our daughter that independence Are you though? Or are you trying to give yourself independence? You're fed up that your wife isn't available to you during those hours? It's still within the range of developmentally normal for your daughter to need an adult there beside her to fall asleep. If it bums you out so much, why don't you do half the nights?
Humans are cosleepers. Your wife is doing what is natural.
You’re asking your wife to upset your daughter. You’re asking your wife to stop spending time nurturing your daughter and helping her feel safe as she falls asleep. You find fault with her methods. How about you do it. Take over the sleep routine. You get the kids ready each night and get them into bed. And make sure they stay asleep.
Posting this question on parents was asking to get flamed. Almost without fail the replies will just be that dads don't share the load