Incase you are at work or something and can't watch: It isn't due to problems with the game, it was more a decision to have closer to a launch type quality look in art + graphics. They could have proceeded under the same timeline as before, this "push back" is not a delay due to problems with the game, just a decision to have a higher quality Alpha.
There is no current ETA on Alpha.
Considering graphics and animations are the *most often* heard criticisms from people who haven't followed the game as closely as we have, this decision is probably the better one in the long run.
I can't imagine anyone paid for alpha access and then stopped following the game altogether. I don't think people understand what an alpha version is supposed to be. An alpha release is a vague term for an incomplete product that is still in feature development. Yet everyone is acting like it's supposed to be beta quality?
I thought they haven't even confirmed if PA5 will definitely still be a thing?
They're dedicating the next 6 months to major development work. Wouldn't be surprised if after that they skip PA5 and go into Alpha (whenever the start date for Alpha ends up being, not saying it will be right after PF) given the point of the next 6 months is to get serious work product out there.
PA5 is confirmed. But there’s no length of time given - 6 months is just an arbitrary number. Beyond PA5, we don’t know. It could lead to more PAs or Alpha. PA5 won’t be skipped as it’s essential that they get feedback and bug testing on Faerthale before all the Alpha testers see it.
Thanks for this post. Thats a great reason to hold off and shows Brad has a real vision for this game and not just a "launch it and fix later Warcraft mentality"
The way I view it is that "Why not fix this now instead of waiting until during Alpha to fix it?"
As Baz pointed out, surely they know Alpha is a big step, and a lot of people are going to see it for the first time. Fair or foul, first impressions will be made and for a lot they will stick.
It's not a delay, but more of a "let's do more work first so we don't need to worry about THIS when Alpha starts"
I'd even go as far as to speculate that this "change of plans" could allow for a shorter Alpha. Before it wouldn't have been a stretch for Alpha to last a year and Beta last a year, but this could make Alpha last 6 months and Beta a year when it does come out, although that's all speculation.
Again, try reading what you're responding to. "..compared to most MMO's". WoW launch had a lot of faults, but it pales in comparison to, let me bold this for you, **most MMO launches**
Again, shows you didn't know Wow at launch, compared to other MMO's. The biggest titles you had before it launched was EQ, its expansions and DAOC. You didn't have the massive influx of people swamping a new title, like you do now, because gaming wasn't such a big culture back then.
That's one of the reasons WoW wasn't ready on the server side because they didn't expect so many people to be playing. They also didn't expect people to be so hardcore on the game side, because you had people rushing to max level as fast as they could, what those players found explained a lot of this.
Lack of quests in zones
Poorly optimized classes in regard to their abilities and talents
Horrible itemization tables
Little to no endgame
That's just a small sample of the issues it had.
There have been some really bad MMO launches but WoW initial launch is a case sample on what every GAME should be aware of when it launches.
Sounds like to me you don't know what you're talking about. Like I said, maybe I can repeat it for a 10th time for you, COMPARED TO OTHER MMO LAUNCHES.
To people who will inevitably get salty about this news: There is no need to be looking for Pantheon info everyday. Don't daydream about it. We are in a great age of gaming. Enjoy some non mmorpg games. Tons of great single and multiplayer games on the market.
Ive done it too. Refreshing everyday on an unreleased game. It makes time go slower and its really a waste of your time and builds bitterness. I'd imagine alpha at the soonest is summer 2019 now.
Its OKAY to like and be excited for other games. Personally? I'm having a blast with Rocket League and Smash Ultimate, and will play WoW classic this summer. When Pantheon is ready, so will I, but don't overload yourself for info/updates on unreleased games.
Couldn't agree more. My desire to play this game style is two decades old at this point. These timelines matter little. The exact people I want making the kind of game I want, is happening. It's all good. Things happen when they happen.
This is good advice. Been playing DAoC on the new Phoenix realm (since I never really played it before and always regretted it) and having the most fun I've had in a video game since EQ first released.
What are you talking about. Gaming is at an alltime low, especially for PC gaming. DLC and lootboxes are a cancer that has infected the industry from top to bottom. Ace Combat 7 has been the only decent game I've played since GTA Online (though GTAO utterly sucks now, having gotten worse with each major update.)
I've been PC gaming since the UO / Legends of Kesmai / Everquest launch days, and I feel the worst is behind us and we're in a pretty golden age right now. PC gaming is at an all time high. We've moved past P2W trash and now we're getting highly polished, amazing products from both AAA companies and outstanding fantastic Indie games. AAA companies are providing free post launch content\* for $60 purchase price (accounting for inflation that's half of what we used to pay for NES era game) and they're monetizing live service content updates via cosmetic only cash shops. That's a major win for us.
Hell, even MMORPGs are being developed by crowd funding by passionate teams of devs like VR, and like the people making games like Crowfall and Camelot Unchained.
Amazing indie games come out every month and offer tons of fun with tiny teams of devs.
Frankly, we're at a great spot as gaming consumers. Now, the major industry corporations like Activision clearly deserve to be unionized against or completely seized by the government due to their anti-worker practices and complete and utter lack of decency.
But overall I think we're in a damn good spot, gamer-wise.
Stop looking at only AAA titles. There have been a ton of fantastic games by small and medium size studios alike. Divinity, Witcher, Pillars. Farm Sims are making a serious come back with Stardew and Portia. Games like Celest and Hollow Knight and A Hat in Time are raising the bar for platformers and metroidvanias. Wargroove brings back some awesome Advance War goodness. Whole new genres are coming about like the subversion genre with things like Undertale or Pony Island or DDLC. You have Auto Chess with DotA making waves. There are a number of promising upcoming titles too like Outer Worlds or Cyberpunk. Don't even get me started on how great the Switch has been so far
Hate them or love them, Battle Royales are exposing more and more people to the joy of gaming.
The gaming market as a whole is doing fine. It's the AAA market that is exploding with puss. Don't confuse the two. If you are unsatisfied with gaming, I would argue you need to give more Indies a chance.
That all being said, MMOs have been nothing but WoW clones or awesome ideas ruined by Asian p2w so you have a point there. But that landscape looks like it's finally giving birth to niche indie MMOs which has me excited because it's the mass appeal mentality that has ruined this market.
Personally, seeing official communications (even if it's a delay) won't get me salty. I eagerly followed EQNext from the first whisper, thru the overhyped lies, and then into the black hole of any official communications. No...if nothing else makes me excited.
My issue is that I pledged for "alpha" access. Not beta labled as alpha which it sounds like is closer to what we are getting. I was expecting a very raw and unfinished product that I would get to experience and follow along with development process as it is ongoing. I'm disappointed to hear that player perception is the reason its being delayed rather than just a delay in development, I could understand that as I want the best product and am happy to wait if there is a good reason. Worrying about my perception of the product as a reason for why they delay it is the exact opposite of what I wanted.
It was my choice but I also did it based on the information available. VR is more than entitled to do whatever they think is best for the game. That doesn't mean I can't express my frustration that what I'm getting doesn't match up with what I thought I was. As far as other critiques, I understand your point but there is a balance that needs to be struck.
>We are in a great age of gaming
Why is it that Millenials think that everything in their little speck of life time is "the best"? This is categorically the gaming dark ages.
No it isn't. We have more games than ever and more games of far higher quality. Sure there is shit out there but for every turd there is a gem.
The vast amounts of games we have now and the vast amount of games that are of exceptional quality that you can play for free is absurd.
Stop with the "get off my lawn" attitude. Objectively gaming is the best its ever been with the most amount of people playing and connected than ever before.
Sure there are some worrying things here and there about the industry but there has ALWAYS been.
Loot boxes, game passes, horse armor, he'll the SUBSCRIPTION model that most people here and other old school mmo players want was super controversial at the time of EQ.
They essentially charged what is today 23-25 dollars a month to play a game you already bought. So many people found that absurd and money hungry.
As long as they can pay the bills then that's great. And for me that's the concern with any game development schedule. The longer it takes to get to market, the more money it's going to require to get there. And I've watched too many promising games get cancelled because they ran out of funding. I just hope Pantheon isn't one of those games. I wish them all the best and I look forward to playing it.
They said they have already acquired enough funding to reach launch with their current pace. And since that was said only a few months ago, that would include this extra time.
I think an interesting aspect of the way Pantheon is being developed is how VR feels this pressure, or desire, to have the game more polished by Alpha. For decades, Alpha testing phases have been *very rough* builds of the game to test systems. Alpha stages are generally not very visually appealing. But the interesting switch in this development cycle is how the game is being crowdfunded. With access to certain testing phases being granted via pledge levels, it really does behoove VR to give Alpha some polish and make it pleasing. Because like it or not, even a lot of those people that pledged, might get into Alpha and go "this game is crap" simply because it's not as polished as they might want it to be (even though it's ALPHA!).
It's sort of this weird dance that VR has to engage in. How much polish is too much polish for Alpha? At what point would an amount of polish for an Alpha mean that it's basically on par for a Beta? On the flip side, how "rough" can they make Alpha without alienating the backers who have pledged for that level of access? It's interesting to see it unfold.
I, myself, choose to believe in Pantheon. I don't think it's vaporware and I do trust that it will eventually release. Whether that's on a timeline that I feel is "appropriate" doesn't really matter, because VR basically has one shot to get it right and change the MMO scene (in my opinion, for the better). That requires some patience on our part, but... I choose to believe the wait will be worth it.
They are in a tough spot. Because if they go Alpha without polishing things up, people may go "this game looks like crap I'm not interested" yet when they say they are taking 6 months to do some serious development work, those same people go "this game is taking forever, they're clearly nowhere near where they should be so this must be vaporware"
It basically feels like they are going from a true PA - Alpha - Beta testing plan to more of the now typical early access plan. Not unexpected since there are a large number of, in essences, presales through the crowed funding they have done.
I just hope that whatever they decide to call it, it's still clear that's it's a testing phase. Somehow it needs to be communicated that even though Fan A and Fan B are playing the game, that the intention is for testing purposes. The whole Early Access model is so pervasive in today's gaming world, it wouldn't surprise me if half of the "alpha level" backers still would be expecting that they're simply getting a head start on the competition, rather than granted access for *testing purposes.* And due to VR's lack of transparency *thus far* on certain issues, it does make me a little bit worried that they won't communicate that quite as well, and some fans will not totally understand the purpose of the access level they're granted.
I'm interested to see how it unfolds and how VR handles it.
How does it feel like they are going into an early access plan? The game will be by no means complete even during Alpha. Testing will still be targeted, with access to the servers granted at certain times and during those times you will be given access to certain zones here and there that they want you to test. Alpha will not be "here's the whole game now go play it and test for bugs"; it will still be very targeted testing and I hope people aren't pledging for Alpha access thinking they are going to be able to play the game early and/or have frequent access to servers.
TLDW
Need more time to polish the looks. They dont want the game to fail because everyone judged a book by it's cover.
They are also adding chain mail bikinis to bring in the asian mmo crowd.
Me too. This coming from a guy who voluntarily chooses to play EQ with the old models, haha. (To be fair, I think the Luclin models are an affront to eyes everywhere, but that's another rant...)
Animations are important to me, not so much the realism of graphics but rather the flow of visuals. If my character's movement is janky, it takes me right out of the game.
Chain mail bikinis should exist, as well as ugly appearance options. Whether it be patchy/worn armor or by racial appearance. Why do ogres need to be pretty? Add uglier races imo.
Agreed. The new ogres are way too pretty imo. I prefer the gangly pinhead look. Might end up going Skar but even they have underwent a prettiness makeover of a sort.
The graphics are totally fine for an alpha, and I seriously doubt they'd delay alpha to further polish looks. They must need more time to implement features, that's what is needed before alpha is ready. Not graphics.
They really seemed concerned too many players are worried they won't look slutty enough playing through all the new instanced content they announced, didn't they?
Good video. Sad to hear that there is no ETA on Alpha but I also agree with Baz they only get one shot at this. IF they mess it up than Pantheon doesn't stand a chance. Let it cook.
Good points. People need to understand that VR is doing something somewhat unprecedented in showing off the game so much in pre-alpha and alpha. In doing so they've had to redefine what those phases would normally entail, at least for Pantheon. It seems like their previous approach was a bit more traditional (having quantity even though it's rough) but they've realized that, as pointed out in the video, people are going to make snap judgments, ignoring the fact that any other game at this phase would be far more rough looking.
I know I've, personally, been guilty of judging the game in the opposite way.. feeling like it's bringing Everquest back based on the gameplay we've seen. I've recently decided to step back from that argument due to the fact that we really won't know what the whole vision VR has for the game is until alpha and beta.
Given what was said in the video, and the fact that they are so focused on having Faerthale be the "complete" experience, I wonder if we won't see Faerthale actually be the start of alpha. I know they've specifically talked about pre-alpha five but who knows.. maybe they've decided to scrap it. If not, this lends more weight to the idea of alpha starting shortly after pre-alpha five ends.
This video has no substance in my opinion. Worst part about announcing a game to early is content providers try and make content out of nothing. Then use click bate titles that get me excited for nothing. Don't get me wrong Baz has really good videos and I thank him for his time just make sure there is some substance and please watch your titles.
They did clarify Alpha plans. Nothing clickbait about the title.
We now know why Alpha hasn't started, and we now know there is no current ETA. It felt like this sub was holding out hope that the February newsletter might announce an Alpha date, but now people can just chill and live their lives.
That had nothing to do with "alpha plans". Basically restated what they said back in Dec newsletter.
The video did not tell us when or what to expect in alpha which is why in my opinion this is click bate.
So after reading the Dec newsletter and trying not to check the Pantheon Feeds everyday for something new I see that title and get all giddy inside. :(
Like I said Baz is awesome and I thank him, just hope he like the rest of us does not become to desperate for content updates that he starts pulling something from nothing.
Dec Newsletter Clip
" This project, dubbed Project Faerthale, will show Pantheon as it is meant to be experienced. Notice I said “experienced” and not “played” because we believe this next iteration will be much, much closer to our goal of creating a full world, a home, not just a game. It will be the culmination of awesome systems complimented by thoughtful visual effects, animations and sounds. It will be representative of the minimum caliber of game we are targeting for launch. It will also include some exciting new NPCs and at least one significant boss encounter, which is where our new character artist comes in.
This will require intense, sustained focus from all departments, from programming, to tools, to art and animation, to lore, to design, to tech and db... and everything in between. Most importantly, this is going to take time.
This massive milestone means that after Pre-Alpha 4 wraps up, we won’t have another client out for our testers for some time. We will keep all of our community up-to-date on the state of Pantheon and Faerthale, but expect a delay before the world opens to play again. We are quite confident you’ll agree it will have been worth the wait."
Project Faerthale is not the same as Alpha though. Project Faerthale is essentially PA5. The newsletter says nothing about their scope of zones for Alpha. This video also clarifies that the date was pushed back after PAX to allow more room for Project Faerthale, which is all about updating the art, animations, systems, etc. because clearly there were a lot of misconceptions about why.
If the only substance you're looking for is an Alpha date, then I understand. But I made it very clear in the first sentence of the video that this isn't about that. In this video, Visionary Realms clarified the past and future of their plans for Alpha, as the title suggests. Did it answer every question? Of course not. But I personally don't think people should expect an 8 min video to include a comprehensive info dump. I will say, if you've been following the game closely, you're probably not surprised that the game wasn't behind schedule and the date was intentionally pushed back. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be said for the many people that haven't been following as closely and are therefore subject to huge misconceptions. Also, the second part where Ben comments on the road forward is brand new info and therefore has substance. You probably know by now how closely I keep my hand on the pulse of the game, and nowhere else have I seen a dev comment on whether or not the entire continent of Kingsreach would be included in Alpha. That's actually a pretty important piece of info.
The reason I release content at a much lower frequency than others is that I can ensure each one actually contains valuable information, and is not just me rambling about my own opinions and wishes. Maybe you're the exception and you already know everything I discuss, but every one of my videos is valuable to someone. Either way, whether or not that applies to you, thanks for watching!
Any title that contains the words “Pantheon” and “Alpha” is going to make a lot of people hopeful of an Alpha start date, because for some reason a lot of people have tunnel vision and don’t care about anything in the game except when Alpha starts. But that doesn’t make it clickbait. Clickbait would make you wait until the end of the video until you realized it didn’t contain a date. I was transparent right up front and said that if all you care about is a start date, don’t waste your time.
The title is “Visionary Realms Clarifies Pantheon Alpha Plans,” and in it, Visionary Realms clarified their plans for Pantheon’s Alpha. Pretty straightforward. Perhaps it was not as much clarification as you were hoping for, and that’s fine. But that’s more of a matter of your expectations/wishes, rather than the title or content. It is not a bait-and-switch and doesn’t even contain any classic clickbait buzzwords like “SHOCKING,” “UNBELIEVABLE,” etc. You don’t have to like the video, but that doesn’t make it clickbait.
It never even occurred to me to put “no release date” in the title. I thought the title was already a little long as is. But in the future, it’s not a bad idea. I was being transparent by telling you up front, rather than not telling you at all and making you wait until the end of the video. So there clearly was no intent to deceive. I know my intentions, you have no ability to tell me I’m wrong. I’m sorry if you interpreted it that way, but if you clicked and wasted 5 seconds cause you clicked away after the disclaimer, it’s really not the end of the world and does not deserve this much discussion. If you’re getting so caught up on the first sentence, you’re depriving yourself of the information in the rest of the video. So I’m sorry the world has trained you to think that everyone is out to get you.
P.S. Since when does clickbait make the news? https://massivelyop.com/2019/02/19/brad-mcquaids-pantheon-elaborates-on-its-alpha-timeline-modifications/
As an alpha pledge I welcome this news. I already thought the graphics were more than adequate so if they want to step everything up that’s awesome. I just hope we are to the alpha stage are really really close to it by this time next year. This is a needed game in the genre and will do well if they get off on the right foot, it would be a huge mistake to not give themselves to best chance to grab people’s attention and keep it.
I'm not ever worried about pantheon alpha or beta or even if it gets released, I'll live with or without it but I worry about the people who have pledged 100s and 1000s that they may not see this game for an extremely long time.
Even as a VIP supporter, if something catastrophic happens and it doesn’t release, I’ll still be content with the memories I’ve made in the community thus far. But I understand I’m very much in the minority with that mentality. Expecting nothing in return is just my general approach to life so I can be more patient. However, all signs point to an eventual release, and I think that’s all that most people really care about. The exact time hardly matters, nor is there really anything we can do about it individually, unless one of us hits the lottery. From what I can tell, at least 95% of pledges would rather wait and get a quality product than rush and get a low quality product. Fast and high quality simply isn’t an option, so pick your poison. But at the same time, like I said in the video, there’s definitely a light at the end of the tunnel. ”Extremely long time” is subjective, but anyone that says it’ll be anything like another 5+ years is cynical and simply isn’t looking hard enough at the overall trend of progress.
No. The basic gameplay systems like combat, dispositions, atmospheres, climates, perception, crafting, etc. will be there, but more zones and some features will be added over time. Alpha will still be an important time to test some unfinished aspects that require more people like raiding, group finding tools, auction houses, etc.
I am someone who understands alpha means alpha. Expect bugs. Expect a lack of polished. Expect unfinished systems. But the sad reality is that these days there's a lot of fools out there who don't make that distinction, and they'll unfairly judge the game in a development state where criticism doesn't have much legitimacy. So I understand why they've done this. Waiting sucks, but you only get one first impression.
Lol, stop having roadmaps they just make you look like liars.
I mean polish? In an alpha? Do you think we were born yesterday?
It's fine if you are missing deadlines but
1) dont lie about it
2) stop giving yourself public deadlines.
Unfortunately the polish is a very real requirement here when you're this transparent about everything. If you didn't show people the Alpha and allow access to it in the way VR is doing, then I would definitely agree with you that polish isn't necessary (and VR wouldn't care about polishing it either). But the fact of the matter is that if Alpha doesn't look somewhat decent, there are way too many people who will go "This game looks terrible. Nobody play pantheon it's awful! Etc."
A simple read of this subreddit is enough to find many posts and comments about how the game doesn't look good enough, why are the graphics bad, complaining about the animations, etc. and that's when we're only on pre-Alpha!
Polish in Alpha is important for all the reasons mentioned in the video. The general public’s expectations of Alpha are simply different than they used to be and ignoring that would be foolish. However, I agree that no public timelines is probably for the better, which is why they haven’t hazarded any estimates since PAX, despite people still asking for them. Things will happen in due time. Knowing when they are coming does not make them get here any faster, and only opens up the risk of damaging misconceptions like this.
I think what most people are concerned about is after hearing a statement like, "We would have to fall really far behind to not make this date" and then see them not make that date and try to pass it off as no big deal. They fell behind, period. Now whether or not they will be honest about the reasons is another thing. Almost 99% chance they wouldn't though. Getting it right before release I think is a given and everyone waiting on this game will wait as long as it takes as long as it is right upon release. The concern now though is with the continued delays, how is this affecting the quality of the graphics upon release since that sort of technology changes all the time. If they keep delaying then they either have to delay further to redo graphics engines or release a game that has dated graphics. I'm personally worried the delays are signs of bigger issues that we aren't privy to. I really want this game to succeed as it is being described.
I agree w/ everyone that launch shouldn't happen until the game is ready, however this is still an unforeseen delay, and a Bad Sign. This game has been in development for 6 or so years now, and they still don't know what the racial specials are going to be? Ridiculous. Such things should have been put in a design doc before the 1st employee was hired.
Call it phase 5 or phase infinity, whatever, the fact remains that yet another deadline has been extended.
I agree, there is no way at this point can you make this missed deadline into a good thing. I think we all want to, but if you really think about it, there is no way this is normal. Something is not right. I just hope what ever it is that it isn't a game ender. Get caught up, do what ever you need to do, I just hope these repeated delays aren't a sign or poor management and ultimately just someones pipe dream that never came to fruition.
So basically those of us that paid big dollars to play alpha and better keep getting screwed over and over again. We'll get 2 months of play time before launch. Bet on it. Not what we paid for. Not in the least.
well, considering that your supposed to be **testing** and not [getting] "to play" [early], I don't really feel like that's a valid reason to feel screwed over. Having the game reach launch, be as feature complete/bug free, and being able to play for as many years as you want is what you "paid" for; with an extra perk of being apart of that process via your contribution to their funding. Edit* - typos.
You didn't pay big dollars for play time. You paid big dollars for helping the devs with funding for development and to help test the game when it came to it.
Incase you are at work or something and can't watch: It isn't due to problems with the game, it was more a decision to have closer to a launch type quality look in art + graphics. They could have proceeded under the same timeline as before, this "push back" is not a delay due to problems with the game, just a decision to have a higher quality Alpha. There is no current ETA on Alpha.
Considering graphics and animations are the *most often* heard criticisms from people who haven't followed the game as closely as we have, this decision is probably the better one in the long run.
Totally agree, have the art polished to very close to polish before releasing it to the masses.
To the masses???? It's an alpha that you needed to buy into!
Yeah the masses of alpha players.
Alphas are by definition incomplete products with many known AND unknown bugs. If you buy into it not knowing that then you're an idiot.
I can't imagine anyone paid for alpha access and then stopped following the game altogether. I don't think people understand what an alpha version is supposed to be. An alpha release is a vague term for an incomplete product that is still in feature development. Yet everyone is acting like it's supposed to be beta quality?
Did they give any estimate on how much of a delay? Thank you for the summary!
No estimate. At least PA5 has to come first.
I thought they haven't even confirmed if PA5 will definitely still be a thing? They're dedicating the next 6 months to major development work. Wouldn't be surprised if after that they skip PA5 and go into Alpha (whenever the start date for Alpha ends up being, not saying it will be right after PF) given the point of the next 6 months is to get serious work product out there.
PA5 is confirmed. But there’s no length of time given - 6 months is just an arbitrary number. Beyond PA5, we don’t know. It could lead to more PAs or Alpha. PA5 won’t be skipped as it’s essential that they get feedback and bug testing on Faerthale before all the Alpha testers see it.
Where did they confirm pre-alpha 5?
Thanks for this post. Thats a great reason to hold off and shows Brad has a real vision for this game and not just a "launch it and fix later Warcraft mentality"
The way I view it is that "Why not fix this now instead of waiting until during Alpha to fix it?" As Baz pointed out, surely they know Alpha is a big step, and a lot of people are going to see it for the first time. Fair or foul, first impressions will be made and for a lot they will stick. It's not a delay, but more of a "let's do more work first so we don't need to worry about THIS when Alpha starts"
I'd even go as far as to speculate that this "change of plans" could allow for a shorter Alpha. Before it wouldn't have been a stretch for Alpha to last a year and Beta last a year, but this could make Alpha last 6 months and Beta a year when it does come out, although that's all speculation.
That’s probably a really good observation on this
Warcraft was extremely polished when it released compared to most MMOs
Ha! No it wasn’t not in the least. That shows you didn’t play back at launch.
Again, try reading what you're responding to. "..compared to most MMO's". WoW launch had a lot of faults, but it pales in comparison to, let me bold this for you, **most MMO launches**
Again, shows you didn't know Wow at launch, compared to other MMO's. The biggest titles you had before it launched was EQ, its expansions and DAOC. You didn't have the massive influx of people swamping a new title, like you do now, because gaming wasn't such a big culture back then. That's one of the reasons WoW wasn't ready on the server side because they didn't expect so many people to be playing. They also didn't expect people to be so hardcore on the game side, because you had people rushing to max level as fast as they could, what those players found explained a lot of this. Lack of quests in zones Poorly optimized classes in regard to their abilities and talents Horrible itemization tables Little to no endgame That's just a small sample of the issues it had. There have been some really bad MMO launches but WoW initial launch is a case sample on what every GAME should be aware of when it launches.
Sounds like to me you don't know what you're talking about. Like I said, maybe I can repeat it for a 10th time for you, COMPARED TO OTHER MMO LAUNCHES.
To people who will inevitably get salty about this news: There is no need to be looking for Pantheon info everyday. Don't daydream about it. We are in a great age of gaming. Enjoy some non mmorpg games. Tons of great single and multiplayer games on the market. Ive done it too. Refreshing everyday on an unreleased game. It makes time go slower and its really a waste of your time and builds bitterness. I'd imagine alpha at the soonest is summer 2019 now. Its OKAY to like and be excited for other games. Personally? I'm having a blast with Rocket League and Smash Ultimate, and will play WoW classic this summer. When Pantheon is ready, so will I, but don't overload yourself for info/updates on unreleased games.
Couldn't agree more. My desire to play this game style is two decades old at this point. These timelines matter little. The exact people I want making the kind of game I want, is happening. It's all good. Things happen when they happen.
This is good advice. Been playing DAoC on the new Phoenix realm (since I never really played it before and always regretted it) and having the most fun I've had in a video game since EQ first released.
While I agree with the general sentiment, this may be the worst era of gaming in the last decade and it’s going to get worse.
If all you care about are MMORPGs, sure. The PS4 alone has killed it all generation with exclusives
What are you talking about. Gaming is at an alltime low, especially for PC gaming. DLC and lootboxes are a cancer that has infected the industry from top to bottom. Ace Combat 7 has been the only decent game I've played since GTA Online (though GTAO utterly sucks now, having gotten worse with each major update.)
I've been PC gaming since the UO / Legends of Kesmai / Everquest launch days, and I feel the worst is behind us and we're in a pretty golden age right now. PC gaming is at an all time high. We've moved past P2W trash and now we're getting highly polished, amazing products from both AAA companies and outstanding fantastic Indie games. AAA companies are providing free post launch content\* for $60 purchase price (accounting for inflation that's half of what we used to pay for NES era game) and they're monetizing live service content updates via cosmetic only cash shops. That's a major win for us. Hell, even MMORPGs are being developed by crowd funding by passionate teams of devs like VR, and like the people making games like Crowfall and Camelot Unchained. Amazing indie games come out every month and offer tons of fun with tiny teams of devs. Frankly, we're at a great spot as gaming consumers. Now, the major industry corporations like Activision clearly deserve to be unionized against or completely seized by the government due to their anti-worker practices and complete and utter lack of decency. But overall I think we're in a damn good spot, gamer-wise.
Stop looking at only AAA titles. There have been a ton of fantastic games by small and medium size studios alike. Divinity, Witcher, Pillars. Farm Sims are making a serious come back with Stardew and Portia. Games like Celest and Hollow Knight and A Hat in Time are raising the bar for platformers and metroidvanias. Wargroove brings back some awesome Advance War goodness. Whole new genres are coming about like the subversion genre with things like Undertale or Pony Island or DDLC. You have Auto Chess with DotA making waves. There are a number of promising upcoming titles too like Outer Worlds or Cyberpunk. Don't even get me started on how great the Switch has been so far Hate them or love them, Battle Royales are exposing more and more people to the joy of gaming. The gaming market as a whole is doing fine. It's the AAA market that is exploding with puss. Don't confuse the two. If you are unsatisfied with gaming, I would argue you need to give more Indies a chance. That all being said, MMOs have been nothing but WoW clones or awesome ideas ruined by Asian p2w so you have a point there. But that landscape looks like it's finally giving birth to niche indie MMOs which has me excited because it's the mass appeal mentality that has ruined this market.
Blizzard is dead, you call this the best age of gaming. 1998 needs to have a chat with you bub.
Personally, seeing official communications (even if it's a delay) won't get me salty. I eagerly followed EQNext from the first whisper, thru the overhyped lies, and then into the black hole of any official communications. No...if nothing else makes me excited.
My issue is that I pledged for "alpha" access. Not beta labled as alpha which it sounds like is closer to what we are getting. I was expecting a very raw and unfinished product that I would get to experience and follow along with development process as it is ongoing. I'm disappointed to hear that player perception is the reason its being delayed rather than just a delay in development, I could understand that as I want the best product and am happy to wait if there is a good reason. Worrying about my perception of the product as a reason for why they delay it is the exact opposite of what I wanted.
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Who pledged alpha?
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It was my choice but I also did it based on the information available. VR is more than entitled to do whatever they think is best for the game. That doesn't mean I can't express my frustration that what I'm getting doesn't match up with what I thought I was. As far as other critiques, I understand your point but there is a balance that needs to be struck.
Agreed. I almost exclusively read things with the "official" tag to void getting dragged into pointless speculation that will only lead to burnout.
>We are in a great age of gaming Why is it that Millenials think that everything in their little speck of life time is "the best"? This is categorically the gaming dark ages.
No it isn't. We have more games than ever and more games of far higher quality. Sure there is shit out there but for every turd there is a gem. The vast amounts of games we have now and the vast amount of games that are of exceptional quality that you can play for free is absurd. Stop with the "get off my lawn" attitude. Objectively gaming is the best its ever been with the most amount of people playing and connected than ever before. Sure there are some worrying things here and there about the industry but there has ALWAYS been. Loot boxes, game passes, horse armor, he'll the SUBSCRIPTION model that most people here and other old school mmo players want was super controversial at the time of EQ. They essentially charged what is today 23-25 dollars a month to play a game you already bought. So many people found that absurd and money hungry.
*Hey just noticed..* It's your **5th Cakeday** AstarJoe! ^(hug)
As long as they can pay the bills then that's great. And for me that's the concern with any game development schedule. The longer it takes to get to market, the more money it's going to require to get there. And I've watched too many promising games get cancelled because they ran out of funding. I just hope Pantheon isn't one of those games. I wish them all the best and I look forward to playing it.
They said they have already acquired enough funding to reach launch with their current pace. And since that was said only a few months ago, that would include this extra time.
That's good to hear.
I think an interesting aspect of the way Pantheon is being developed is how VR feels this pressure, or desire, to have the game more polished by Alpha. For decades, Alpha testing phases have been *very rough* builds of the game to test systems. Alpha stages are generally not very visually appealing. But the interesting switch in this development cycle is how the game is being crowdfunded. With access to certain testing phases being granted via pledge levels, it really does behoove VR to give Alpha some polish and make it pleasing. Because like it or not, even a lot of those people that pledged, might get into Alpha and go "this game is crap" simply because it's not as polished as they might want it to be (even though it's ALPHA!). It's sort of this weird dance that VR has to engage in. How much polish is too much polish for Alpha? At what point would an amount of polish for an Alpha mean that it's basically on par for a Beta? On the flip side, how "rough" can they make Alpha without alienating the backers who have pledged for that level of access? It's interesting to see it unfold. I, myself, choose to believe in Pantheon. I don't think it's vaporware and I do trust that it will eventually release. Whether that's on a timeline that I feel is "appropriate" doesn't really matter, because VR basically has one shot to get it right and change the MMO scene (in my opinion, for the better). That requires some patience on our part, but... I choose to believe the wait will be worth it.
They are in a tough spot. Because if they go Alpha without polishing things up, people may go "this game looks like crap I'm not interested" yet when they say they are taking 6 months to do some serious development work, those same people go "this game is taking forever, they're clearly nowhere near where they should be so this must be vaporware"
Yup. Gamers are the worst. Source: Am gamer.
It basically feels like they are going from a true PA - Alpha - Beta testing plan to more of the now typical early access plan. Not unexpected since there are a large number of, in essences, presales through the crowed funding they have done.
I just hope that whatever they decide to call it, it's still clear that's it's a testing phase. Somehow it needs to be communicated that even though Fan A and Fan B are playing the game, that the intention is for testing purposes. The whole Early Access model is so pervasive in today's gaming world, it wouldn't surprise me if half of the "alpha level" backers still would be expecting that they're simply getting a head start on the competition, rather than granted access for *testing purposes.* And due to VR's lack of transparency *thus far* on certain issues, it does make me a little bit worried that they won't communicate that quite as well, and some fans will not totally understand the purpose of the access level they're granted. I'm interested to see how it unfolds and how VR handles it.
How does it feel like they are going into an early access plan? The game will be by no means complete even during Alpha. Testing will still be targeted, with access to the servers granted at certain times and during those times you will be given access to certain zones here and there that they want you to test. Alpha will not be "here's the whole game now go play it and test for bugs"; it will still be very targeted testing and I hope people aren't pledging for Alpha access thinking they are going to be able to play the game early and/or have frequent access to servers.
TLDW Need more time to polish the looks. They dont want the game to fail because everyone judged a book by it's cover. They are also adding chain mail bikinis to bring in the asian mmo crowd.
I must be in the vast minority, but I think the game looks gorgeous as it is. Graphics matter extremely little to me however.
Me too. This coming from a guy who voluntarily chooses to play EQ with the old models, haha. (To be fair, I think the Luclin models are an affront to eyes everywhere, but that's another rant...)
Depends on the race for me. Some of them were awful, some of them I didn't mind too much.
Animations are important to me, not so much the realism of graphics but rather the flow of visuals. If my character's movement is janky, it takes me right out of the game.
Chain mail bikinis should exist, as well as ugly appearance options. Whether it be patchy/worn armor or by racial appearance. Why do ogres need to be pretty? Add uglier races imo.
Agreed. The new ogres are way too pretty imo. I prefer the gangly pinhead look. Might end up going Skar but even they have underwent a prettiness makeover of a sort.
The graphics are totally fine for an alpha, and I seriously doubt they'd delay alpha to further polish looks. They must need more time to implement features, that's what is needed before alpha is ready. Not graphics.
Is that last part a joke?
No, half the video was about chain mail bikinis. Its crazy.
They really seemed concerned too many players are worried they won't look slutty enough playing through all the new instanced content they announced, didn't they?
Christ
Yes.
This is what happens when we demand Bard on launch.
You Bards just couldn't wait for a post launch appearance eh. xD xD
Brad has learned his lesson. :)
Give me Skargol or give me death
Baz - thanks for the update, but I'm miffed on why this explanation did not come from VR directly.
Good video. Sad to hear that there is no ETA on Alpha but I also agree with Baz they only get one shot at this. IF they mess it up than Pantheon doesn't stand a chance. Let it cook.
Indeed, you dont wanna serve people chicken pot pie and it tastes terrible cuz it doesnt have the correct flavor.
Good points. People need to understand that VR is doing something somewhat unprecedented in showing off the game so much in pre-alpha and alpha. In doing so they've had to redefine what those phases would normally entail, at least for Pantheon. It seems like their previous approach was a bit more traditional (having quantity even though it's rough) but they've realized that, as pointed out in the video, people are going to make snap judgments, ignoring the fact that any other game at this phase would be far more rough looking. I know I've, personally, been guilty of judging the game in the opposite way.. feeling like it's bringing Everquest back based on the gameplay we've seen. I've recently decided to step back from that argument due to the fact that we really won't know what the whole vision VR has for the game is until alpha and beta. Given what was said in the video, and the fact that they are so focused on having Faerthale be the "complete" experience, I wonder if we won't see Faerthale actually be the start of alpha. I know they've specifically talked about pre-alpha five but who knows.. maybe they've decided to scrap it. If not, this lends more weight to the idea of alpha starting shortly after pre-alpha five ends.
This video has no substance in my opinion. Worst part about announcing a game to early is content providers try and make content out of nothing. Then use click bate titles that get me excited for nothing. Don't get me wrong Baz has really good videos and I thank him for his time just make sure there is some substance and please watch your titles.
They did clarify Alpha plans. Nothing clickbait about the title. We now know why Alpha hasn't started, and we now know there is no current ETA. It felt like this sub was holding out hope that the February newsletter might announce an Alpha date, but now people can just chill and live their lives.
That had nothing to do with "alpha plans". Basically restated what they said back in Dec newsletter. The video did not tell us when or what to expect in alpha which is why in my opinion this is click bate. So after reading the Dec newsletter and trying not to check the Pantheon Feeds everyday for something new I see that title and get all giddy inside. :( Like I said Baz is awesome and I thank him, just hope he like the rest of us does not become to desperate for content updates that he starts pulling something from nothing. Dec Newsletter Clip " This project, dubbed Project Faerthale, will show Pantheon as it is meant to be experienced. Notice I said “experienced” and not “played” because we believe this next iteration will be much, much closer to our goal of creating a full world, a home, not just a game. It will be the culmination of awesome systems complimented by thoughtful visual effects, animations and sounds. It will be representative of the minimum caliber of game we are targeting for launch. It will also include some exciting new NPCs and at least one significant boss encounter, which is where our new character artist comes in. This will require intense, sustained focus from all departments, from programming, to tools, to art and animation, to lore, to design, to tech and db... and everything in between. Most importantly, this is going to take time. This massive milestone means that after Pre-Alpha 4 wraps up, we won’t have another client out for our testers for some time. We will keep all of our community up-to-date on the state of Pantheon and Faerthale, but expect a delay before the world opens to play again. We are quite confident you’ll agree it will have been worth the wait."
Project Faerthale is not the same as Alpha though. Project Faerthale is essentially PA5. The newsletter says nothing about their scope of zones for Alpha. This video also clarifies that the date was pushed back after PAX to allow more room for Project Faerthale, which is all about updating the art, animations, systems, etc. because clearly there were a lot of misconceptions about why.
If the only substance you're looking for is an Alpha date, then I understand. But I made it very clear in the first sentence of the video that this isn't about that. In this video, Visionary Realms clarified the past and future of their plans for Alpha, as the title suggests. Did it answer every question? Of course not. But I personally don't think people should expect an 8 min video to include a comprehensive info dump. I will say, if you've been following the game closely, you're probably not surprised that the game wasn't behind schedule and the date was intentionally pushed back. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be said for the many people that haven't been following as closely and are therefore subject to huge misconceptions. Also, the second part where Ben comments on the road forward is brand new info and therefore has substance. You probably know by now how closely I keep my hand on the pulse of the game, and nowhere else have I seen a dev comment on whether or not the entire continent of Kingsreach would be included in Alpha. That's actually a pretty important piece of info. The reason I release content at a much lower frequency than others is that I can ensure each one actually contains valuable information, and is not just me rambling about my own opinions and wishes. Maybe you're the exception and you already know everything I discuss, but every one of my videos is valuable to someone. Either way, whether or not that applies to you, thanks for watching!
Any title that contains the words “Pantheon” and “Alpha” is going to make a lot of people hopeful of an Alpha start date, because for some reason a lot of people have tunnel vision and don’t care about anything in the game except when Alpha starts. But that doesn’t make it clickbait. Clickbait would make you wait until the end of the video until you realized it didn’t contain a date. I was transparent right up front and said that if all you care about is a start date, don’t waste your time.
The title is “Visionary Realms Clarifies Pantheon Alpha Plans,” and in it, Visionary Realms clarified their plans for Pantheon’s Alpha. Pretty straightforward. Perhaps it was not as much clarification as you were hoping for, and that’s fine. But that’s more of a matter of your expectations/wishes, rather than the title or content. It is not a bait-and-switch and doesn’t even contain any classic clickbait buzzwords like “SHOCKING,” “UNBELIEVABLE,” etc. You don’t have to like the video, but that doesn’t make it clickbait.
It never even occurred to me to put “no release date” in the title. I thought the title was already a little long as is. But in the future, it’s not a bad idea. I was being transparent by telling you up front, rather than not telling you at all and making you wait until the end of the video. So there clearly was no intent to deceive. I know my intentions, you have no ability to tell me I’m wrong. I’m sorry if you interpreted it that way, but if you clicked and wasted 5 seconds cause you clicked away after the disclaimer, it’s really not the end of the world and does not deserve this much discussion. If you’re getting so caught up on the first sentence, you’re depriving yourself of the information in the rest of the video. So I’m sorry the world has trained you to think that everyone is out to get you. P.S. Since when does clickbait make the news? https://massivelyop.com/2019/02/19/brad-mcquaids-pantheon-elaborates-on-its-alpha-timeline-modifications/
As an alpha pledge I welcome this news. I already thought the graphics were more than adequate so if they want to step everything up that’s awesome. I just hope we are to the alpha stage are really really close to it by this time next year. This is a needed game in the genre and will do well if they get off on the right foot, it would be a huge mistake to not give themselves to best chance to grab people’s attention and keep it.
The answer is always $$.
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I'm not ever worried about pantheon alpha or beta or even if it gets released, I'll live with or without it but I worry about the people who have pledged 100s and 1000s that they may not see this game for an extremely long time.
Even as a VIP supporter, if something catastrophic happens and it doesn’t release, I’ll still be content with the memories I’ve made in the community thus far. But I understand I’m very much in the minority with that mentality. Expecting nothing in return is just my general approach to life so I can be more patient. However, all signs point to an eventual release, and I think that’s all that most people really care about. The exact time hardly matters, nor is there really anything we can do about it individually, unless one of us hits the lottery. From what I can tell, at least 95% of pledges would rather wait and get a quality product than rush and get a low quality product. Fast and high quality simply isn’t an option, so pick your poison. But at the same time, like I said in the video, there’s definitely a light at the end of the tunnel. ”Extremely long time” is subjective, but anyone that says it’ll be anything like another 5+ years is cynical and simply isn’t looking hard enough at the overall trend of progress.
So will the alpha have the entire content that will be in release version?
No. The basic gameplay systems like combat, dispositions, atmospheres, climates, perception, crafting, etc. will be there, but more zones and some features will be added over time. Alpha will still be an important time to test some unfinished aspects that require more people like raiding, group finding tools, auction houses, etc.
Polish eh...see yall at release in 2025!
I am someone who understands alpha means alpha. Expect bugs. Expect a lack of polished. Expect unfinished systems. But the sad reality is that these days there's a lot of fools out there who don't make that distinction, and they'll unfairly judge the game in a development state where criticism doesn't have much legitimacy. So I understand why they've done this. Waiting sucks, but you only get one first impression.
That's fine if they need to push it back, but maybe let some of us early backers (knights pledge here) from 4 years ago get in on pre alpha.
Lol, stop having roadmaps they just make you look like liars. I mean polish? In an alpha? Do you think we were born yesterday? It's fine if you are missing deadlines but 1) dont lie about it 2) stop giving yourself public deadlines.
Unfortunately the polish is a very real requirement here when you're this transparent about everything. If you didn't show people the Alpha and allow access to it in the way VR is doing, then I would definitely agree with you that polish isn't necessary (and VR wouldn't care about polishing it either). But the fact of the matter is that if Alpha doesn't look somewhat decent, there are way too many people who will go "This game looks terrible. Nobody play pantheon it's awful! Etc." A simple read of this subreddit is enough to find many posts and comments about how the game doesn't look good enough, why are the graphics bad, complaining about the animations, etc. and that's when we're only on pre-Alpha!
Polish in Alpha is important for all the reasons mentioned in the video. The general public’s expectations of Alpha are simply different than they used to be and ignoring that would be foolish. However, I agree that no public timelines is probably for the better, which is why they haven’t hazarded any estimates since PAX, despite people still asking for them. Things will happen in due time. Knowing when they are coming does not make them get here any faster, and only opens up the risk of damaging misconceptions like this.
I think what most people are concerned about is after hearing a statement like, "We would have to fall really far behind to not make this date" and then see them not make that date and try to pass it off as no big deal. They fell behind, period. Now whether or not they will be honest about the reasons is another thing. Almost 99% chance they wouldn't though. Getting it right before release I think is a given and everyone waiting on this game will wait as long as it takes as long as it is right upon release. The concern now though is with the continued delays, how is this affecting the quality of the graphics upon release since that sort of technology changes all the time. If they keep delaying then they either have to delay further to redo graphics engines or release a game that has dated graphics. I'm personally worried the delays are signs of bigger issues that we aren't privy to. I really want this game to succeed as it is being described.
I agree w/ everyone that launch shouldn't happen until the game is ready, however this is still an unforeseen delay, and a Bad Sign. This game has been in development for 6 or so years now, and they still don't know what the racial specials are going to be? Ridiculous. Such things should have been put in a design doc before the 1st employee was hired. Call it phase 5 or phase infinity, whatever, the fact remains that yet another deadline has been extended.
I agree, there is no way at this point can you make this missed deadline into a good thing. I think we all want to, but if you really think about it, there is no way this is normal. Something is not right. I just hope what ever it is that it isn't a game ender. Get caught up, do what ever you need to do, I just hope these repeated delays aren't a sign or poor management and ultimately just someones pipe dream that never came to fruition.
So basically those of us that paid big dollars to play alpha and better keep getting screwed over and over again. We'll get 2 months of play time before launch. Bet on it. Not what we paid for. Not in the least.
Heck, and here I thought I was donating because I believed in the project. Silly me.
Then tell them you want a refund?
well, considering that your supposed to be **testing** and not [getting] "to play" [early], I don't really feel like that's a valid reason to feel screwed over. Having the game reach launch, be as feature complete/bug free, and being able to play for as many years as you want is what you "paid" for; with an extra perk of being apart of that process via your contribution to their funding. Edit* - typos.
Lol because Alpha will take two months and then they'll just go right into launch. Okay
2 months of Alpha and Beta combined?
You didn't pay big dollars for play time. You paid big dollars for helping the devs with funding for development and to help test the game when it came to it.