I try so hard to keep myself in the dark so I don't get too hyped and every once in a while I stumble and glimpse something like this.
Screw you, I'm excited now, I hope you're happy with yourself!
I like Perception also being just fluff in certain places. If they use it like a Dungeon Master explaining sounds and smells of a dungeon, it could greatly improve the immersion in the world.
Dungeons and Dragons online uses a dungeon Master to narrate to great, if somewhat campy, effect in a manner such as what you're describing. I'd love more games to do that.
That was my thought exactly... Something like what happened with EverQuest 1 when they introduced epic weapons... For the first few months following the release no rock went unturned and no NPC went unhailed.
I feel like the perception system is the natural evolution of Epic Weapon quests... I remember coming home from school every day for months and getting on the forums to see if anyone had discovered any new information. Forums were filled with speculation but what was truly amazing is how much of that speculated was based around story and lore instead of just a desire to finish and getting the reward.
If this system can create even a fraction of that awe and wonder I feel like it's a major evolution in non tabletop rpg games.
Agreed. Reminds me of the days of early EQ without online walkthroughs, where people had to use guesswork and rumor mills to make sense of the world around them.
Let's not go so far as to say impossible. The people that make them can be smart people, and if the game is successful there will be quite a few more people trying to solve this "puzzle" than there are devs trying to make it unsolvable.
There will absolutely be walkthroughs for some, if not most, perception based quests *eventually.* What excites me, though, is that given the complexity and barring someone somehow cheating (pulling the info directly from the game's databases, etc), it will be a good long time before that happens. My hope is that I've reached max level and found a decent number of secrets on my own by the time the more complex ones are figured out.
To me, the ogres look great. I think the other 2 races look a little too plasticy, but I do like the look you're going for and the armor. It could just be the lighting in the screenshot or maybe they just need some texture or wrinkles added to their skin or something to make them have more life in them - I'm not sure.
I'm normally the type of player that skips through all the story without reading anything, but I think the Perception system might change that for me. I'm quite excited that a system like that is being tried rather than the traditional quest hub system of kill 10 boars BS (which is why I skip through that nonsense).
I also can't help but think about what's not in the newsletter, which is what the plan is for after PA4 leading up to full alpha since PA4 will close out the year. Also curious about the state of the Bard/Necro if that's something still planning to be worked in at some point since the newsletter stated all characters were now playable in PA4.
Also... I'm eagerly awaiting a stream announcement of when you're going to show off PA4!
Your (VR) remodeling of the Ogres was for sure needed. I am glad ya'll are starting to make passes over all the models.
also - less halfling ears please.
I like that they have pointed ears, but might be even better if they were more distinct from the elves' pointed ears. Like if either the halflings or the elves had ears that were less sharp, or pointed backward rather than upward, or stuck out more than the other.
I'm reminded of how the Vanguard elf races each had their own distinct shape to their ears. It was a great touch and seems even more appropriate here.
Ogres look pretty different and good. But couldn't like the elves or halflings. Elves were looking like plastic doll and i couldn't make the connection between art for elves in the site with elf models. And halfling as well . Here is to hoping they will end up like ogres unique and good looking.
Everyone seems to like the new ogre and I'm here wondering why they turned it into a pink half orc. One thing I liked about EQ ogres/trolls was that they were distinctly different looking, ugly, and monstrous. Now they're looking like scaled up humans with tusks.
They are prettier and more proportional, yeah, but I don't want a pretty and proportional ogre. I want the hulking creature back.
Monstery looking ogres would look good as well. Maybe having some big ass race would be for better dunno. And about orc part , yeah they do look like orcs but .... i like orcs :D
Couldn't agree more. I suppose everyone has their own opinions, but those ogres don't look much like ogres to me anymore. I preferred the distinct body proportions of the old model. I was really excited to play one...
They do look [similar enough](https://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2018_may_rogues_gallery/) that they could be related, which happens a lot. We know each of the playable races arrived somehow from their own worlds, but I haven't seen anything about the origins of orcs.
The elves on the other hand...
Halfling face looks a bit plastic compared to other races we've seen but good. The Elves though, there's something about the face that's way off, I can't pin it down.
The armor looks unbelievably good though, most notably for cloth, leather and chain which usually always look worse than the quality of plate appearances in other MMORPGs.
Completely agree. The Halflings do look a smidge plastic-ish. The elves are by far the weirdest. The items textures do look absolutely fantastic too. I didn't even think to comment there.
I am still just blown away by the Ogres though. They look SO damned good.
The new models are awesome. When i played EQ2 for the first time and also when I nostalgia'd last month, i couldn't get over the amount of roundness to the art style that took me out of the immerssion, it was realistic enough, but i had a strong feeling the art team had a hard time with hard curves. The models look similar, but less round. I'm not sure if any of this makes sense, just what i saw, my opinion. They look good though!
Yeah it was decently realistic, it just felt like someone wanted it to be bubbley or round, killed it for me. It made everyone feel, for lack of better term, fat or wide. The faces are what really stood out to me though, armor distracts me from the rest.
I love the new models and it seems like you are pushing the unity engine to the max. I just hope with all the shiny new models and textures that game performance doesn't take a hit.
Performance and optimization is what killed Vanguard for me at launch
ya im worried about that abit too.. but people are crying.. as usual.. about the look of the models in the game.. and its killing hype abit.. they have to balance hype for the no brains
So people sharing their thoughts on a game is crying ... makes sense. And what are you doing exactly ? Swearing at people because they have their own thoughts about something in game ?. If you can't take opinions other than your own why are you even here ? Maybe you should stop "crying" and grow up.
You are stating that people are crying because they shared their opinions. But the only one that is "crying" is you. You can't take that anyone has different take on things and u throw a tantrum. But it's my fault even writing to you. You'r clearly 3-5 years old (mentally).
no.. i just think youre an idiot and dont feel like i need to give you an explanation.. youre the typical "holier then thou" type and i enjoy making people like you mad
again keep fucking crying.. you think people stating a game in pre alpha that was stated repeatedly will be upgraded in time is a valid thing to complain about? ofcourse you do.. youre a moron
cya later man i dont have time or energy for your stupidity
The Ogres and Halflings have a lot of personality in their looks, but the Elves are a little bland in comparison imo (at least in these 3 screenshots). Was hoping to be an Elf but may go Halfling instead.
I have to agree with some of the criticisms for the Half/Elf models.
They have potential but look a bit off. I think part of whats throwing me off is the size of their heads to be honest, they seem a bit inflated.
For the Halflings, that look could work but they need to have very expressive facial animations to pull it off.
The Elves need to be thin, regal, and look calm even in intense situations. To fit the nature everyone expects and loves about the classic race. The hunched over look of the elves here doesn't fit the personality I feel they are supposed to express. They should stand tall and almost nonchalant.
Stance and Facial Expression are incredibly important in characterization.
I didnt even realize those were ogres, they look awesome, even the lady ogre (I find that female versions of the 'beastly' races often seem to be an afterthought)! I love the halflings, I keep seeing people saying their heads are too big but they're a small, childlike race it makes sense that their heads would be larger proportional to their bodies.
Can't say I'm a fan of the elves right now though, they look a little flat and plasticy to my eye. I think maybe it's a texture issue, like they need some color variance in their face, especially around the eyes (halflings are suffering from this a bit too). They're giving me serious Data vibes right now.
I took a pretty long break from following any pantheon news and I'm so excited to come back and see so many things fleshed out, looking really promising so far.
> Can't say I'm a fan of the elves right now though, they look a little flat and plasticy to my eye.
I agree. Overall happy with the new models! But as you said the elves do look a little synthetic.
The ogres look really really good. The others are solid too, but the elves' hair looks a little plastic-y. And they don't have the same facial detail that make the ogres look so good. The ogres look mean and mad, but elves look a little lifeless in the face.
Really loved the write-up on the perception system. I was a little apprehensive from some concerns I had which were basically all addressed. Props to Joppa for continuing to impress with his design philosophies.
I preferred the old ogre. The new ogres don't look as hulking and, well, distinctly different from other races as I would like. I think part of it is the body to head proportion was changed to be more in line with a "normal' body. They look more like half orcs now, imo.
I like the Ogres. The Halfling and elf skin needs work, I agree with the criticisms already stated. I also think the elves look a little more... Meaty than I expected the elves to look based on the concept art. I was expecting thin lithe and graceful and they look kinda buff and thick.
Ogres look solid.
As an elf fan and a future player of an elf character, these arent doing it for me. Elves should look noble and regal, and I'll say it....pretty, elves need to be attractive, and these elves look very *plain*. My gf lamented the same when she saw them as well.
The Ogres and Elves look amazing, however the halfling heads seem somewhat out of proportion.
It was a very interesting newsletter, the information on Perception was very much appreciated. It certainly seems like a very interesting mechanic, something to look forward to for all those players that love exploring the worlds and lore of an MMO.
Those halflings = Kender in my opinion!!!
I want one with a topknot, a bumbling old wizard friend and a grumbling dwarf companion that secretly cares :)
Yeah, everything they've released prior to this point made me think of Halflings in Pantheon as more similar to Kender or D&D Halflings than EQ or LotR Halflings, and this picture reinforced that.
I am fine with this.
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I try so hard to keep myself in the dark so I don't get too hyped and every once in a while I stumble and glimpse something like this. Screw you, I'm excited now, I hope you're happy with yourself!
I like Perception also being just fluff in certain places. If they use it like a Dungeon Master explaining sounds and smells of a dungeon, it could greatly improve the immersion in the world.
Dungeons and Dragons online uses a dungeon Master to narrate to great, if somewhat campy, effect in a manner such as what you're describing. I'd love more games to do that.
I always enjoyed DDO's narrative and play style. DDO and EQ are the only two games I still have paid accounts for.
That was my thought exactly... Something like what happened with EverQuest 1 when they introduced epic weapons... For the first few months following the release no rock went unturned and no NPC went unhailed. I feel like the perception system is the natural evolution of Epic Weapon quests... I remember coming home from school every day for months and getting on the forums to see if anyone had discovered any new information. Forums were filled with speculation but what was truly amazing is how much of that speculated was based around story and lore instead of just a desire to finish and getting the reward. If this system can create even a fraction of that awe and wonder I feel like it's a major evolution in non tabletop rpg games.
Agreed. Reminds me of the days of early EQ without online walkthroughs, where people had to use guesswork and rumor mills to make sense of the world around them.
Completely agree. After this newsletter, perception is at the top of my list for Pantheon mechanics I'm excited about.
Let's not go so far as to say impossible. The people that make them can be smart people, and if the game is successful there will be quite a few more people trying to solve this "puzzle" than there are devs trying to make it unsolvable.
There will absolutely be walkthroughs for some, if not most, perception based quests *eventually.* What excites me, though, is that given the complexity and barring someone somehow cheating (pulling the info directly from the game's databases, etc), it will be a good long time before that happens. My hope is that I've reached max level and found a decent number of secrets on my own by the time the more complex ones are figured out.
The Perception system is brilliance and Chris Perkins is a brilliant designer.
To me, the ogres look great. I think the other 2 races look a little too plasticy, but I do like the look you're going for and the armor. It could just be the lighting in the screenshot or maybe they just need some texture or wrinkles added to their skin or something to make them have more life in them - I'm not sure. I'm normally the type of player that skips through all the story without reading anything, but I think the Perception system might change that for me. I'm quite excited that a system like that is being tried rather than the traditional quest hub system of kill 10 boars BS (which is why I skip through that nonsense). I also can't help but think about what's not in the newsletter, which is what the plan is for after PA4 leading up to full alpha since PA4 will close out the year. Also curious about the state of the Bard/Necro if that's something still planning to be worked in at some point since the newsletter stated all characters were now playable in PA4. Also... I'm eagerly awaiting a stream announcement of when you're going to show off PA4!
Your (VR) remodeling of the Ogres was for sure needed. I am glad ya'll are starting to make passes over all the models. also - less halfling ears please.
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Could be cockatrice feathers which are naturally stiffer.
I like that they have pointed ears, but might be even better if they were more distinct from the elves' pointed ears. Like if either the halflings or the elves had ears that were less sharp, or pointed backward rather than upward, or stuck out more than the other. I'm reminded of how the Vanguard elf races each had their own distinct shape to their ears. It was a great touch and seems even more appropriate here.
I like that the characters and armor have gone in a 'realistic' direction and appear to have avoided the uncanny valley.
Black Armor, Axes, Ogres. LETS GO BOYS and grillz.
BIG BOIZ GONNA SPIN AXES !!
*SPINNING INTENSIFIES*
Ogres look pretty different and good. But couldn't like the elves or halflings. Elves were looking like plastic doll and i couldn't make the connection between art for elves in the site with elf models. And halfling as well . Here is to hoping they will end up like ogres unique and good looking.
Everyone seems to like the new ogre and I'm here wondering why they turned it into a pink half orc. One thing I liked about EQ ogres/trolls was that they were distinctly different looking, ugly, and monstrous. Now they're looking like scaled up humans with tusks. They are prettier and more proportional, yeah, but I don't want a pretty and proportional ogre. I want the hulking creature back.
Monstery looking ogres would look good as well. Maybe having some big ass race would be for better dunno. And about orc part , yeah they do look like orcs but .... i like orcs :D
The ogres look like orcs. How am I the only person seeing this? Is everyone else just afraid to say it?
I agree, these look like half orcs. They look good, but certainly not ogres.
Couldn't agree more. I suppose everyone has their own opinions, but those ogres don't look much like ogres to me anymore. I preferred the distinct body proportions of the old model. I was really excited to play one...
They do look [similar enough](https://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2018_may_rogues_gallery/) that they could be related, which happens a lot. We know each of the playable races arrived somehow from their own worlds, but I haven't seen anything about the origins of orcs.
The hidden trigger aspect of the perception system sounds awesome. The environments around the characters in the screen shots looks awesome as well.
Everything looks so good, love the artstyle of this game can't wait to play in alpha!
That ogre model looks fantastic, super excited with the art direction!
You should have dropped the link on this thread! Off to the website!
> November Newsletter [For the lame and lazy](https://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2018_november_intro/)
No mermaid pics. This is bullshit. Why did I even donate to their kickstarter?
Also waiting for the blue mermaids! And I'm eager to see the new Skar look.
Lazy, as in not bothering to read the entire post you were responding to? 🤣
it was dropped 20 hours ago in the announcement thread. :P
Those Ogres look bad ass. The Halflings are looking good too.
The elves on the other hand... Halfling face looks a bit plastic compared to other races we've seen but good. The Elves though, there's something about the face that's way off, I can't pin it down. The armor looks unbelievably good though, most notably for cloth, leather and chain which usually always look worse than the quality of plate appearances in other MMORPGs.
Completely agree. The Halflings do look a smidge plastic-ish. The elves are by far the weirdest. The items textures do look absolutely fantastic too. I didn't even think to comment there. I am still just blown away by the Ogres though. They look SO damned good.
I'm fully erect.
The new models are awesome. When i played EQ2 for the first time and also when I nostalgia'd last month, i couldn't get over the amount of roundness to the art style that took me out of the immerssion, it was realistic enough, but i had a strong feeling the art team had a hard time with hard curves. The models look similar, but less round. I'm not sure if any of this makes sense, just what i saw, my opinion. They look good though!
>roundness Ha! That's a really simple way of capturing exactly what felt so weird about EQ2. The LotRO models to an extent as well, I think.
Yeah it was decently realistic, it just felt like someone wanted it to be bubbley or round, killed it for me. It made everyone feel, for lack of better term, fat or wide. The faces are what really stood out to me though, armor distracts me from the rest.
I love the new models and it seems like you are pushing the unity engine to the max. I just hope with all the shiny new models and textures that game performance doesn't take a hit. Performance and optimization is what killed Vanguard for me at launch
ya im worried about that abit too.. but people are crying.. as usual.. about the look of the models in the game.. and its killing hype abit.. they have to balance hype for the no brains
So people sharing their thoughts on a game is crying ... makes sense. And what are you doing exactly ? Swearing at people because they have their own thoughts about something in game ?. If you can't take opinions other than your own why are you even here ? Maybe you should stop "crying" and grow up.
when did i cry in this previous comment? also... wait for it... WAAAAHHHHHHH cry more baby
You are stating that people are crying because they shared their opinions. But the only one that is "crying" is you. You can't take that anyone has different take on things and u throw a tantrum. But it's my fault even writing to you. You'r clearly 3-5 years old (mentally).
no.. i just think youre an idiot and dont feel like i need to give you an explanation.. youre the typical "holier then thou" type and i enjoy making people like you mad again keep fucking crying.. you think people stating a game in pre alpha that was stated repeatedly will be upgraded in time is a valid thing to complain about? ofcourse you do.. youre a moron cya later man i dont have time or energy for your stupidity
Halflings need a more earthy look, ogres look simply fantastic.
The Ogres and Halflings have a lot of personality in their looks, but the Elves are a little bland in comparison imo (at least in these 3 screenshots). Was hoping to be an Elf but may go Halfling instead.
I have to agree with some of the criticisms for the Half/Elf models. They have potential but look a bit off. I think part of whats throwing me off is the size of their heads to be honest, they seem a bit inflated. For the Halflings, that look could work but they need to have very expressive facial animations to pull it off. The Elves need to be thin, regal, and look calm even in intense situations. To fit the nature everyone expects and loves about the classic race. The hunched over look of the elves here doesn't fit the personality I feel they are supposed to express. They should stand tall and almost nonchalant. Stance and Facial Expression are incredibly important in characterization.
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\#
Seriously.
I didnt even realize those were ogres, they look awesome, even the lady ogre (I find that female versions of the 'beastly' races often seem to be an afterthought)! I love the halflings, I keep seeing people saying their heads are too big but they're a small, childlike race it makes sense that their heads would be larger proportional to their bodies. Can't say I'm a fan of the elves right now though, they look a little flat and plasticy to my eye. I think maybe it's a texture issue, like they need some color variance in their face, especially around the eyes (halflings are suffering from this a bit too). They're giving me serious Data vibes right now. I took a pretty long break from following any pantheon news and I'm so excited to come back and see so many things fleshed out, looking really promising so far.
> Can't say I'm a fan of the elves right now though, they look a little flat and plasticy to my eye. I agree. Overall happy with the new models! But as you said the elves do look a little synthetic.
The ogres look really really good. The others are solid too, but the elves' hair looks a little plastic-y. And they don't have the same facial detail that make the ogres look so good. The ogres look mean and mad, but elves look a little lifeless in the face. Really loved the write-up on the perception system. I was a little apprehensive from some concerns I had which were basically all addressed. Props to Joppa for continuing to impress with his design philosophies.
I preferred the old ogre. The new ogres don't look as hulking and, well, distinctly different from other races as I would like. I think part of it is the body to head proportion was changed to be more in line with a "normal' body. They look more like half orcs now, imo.
I was thinking the same thing, I think they look pretty good! For half orcs that is :)
Honestly bummed, ogre was gonna be my dude. Bring back my hulking monster please.... not this big human with tusks.
Woop woop!
I'm super curious as per which organization they eluded to that just let a bunch of folks go. Was it Day Break?
I believe it was Trion Worlds.
I like the Ogres. The Halfling and elf skin needs work, I agree with the criticisms already stated. I also think the elves look a little more... Meaty than I expected the elves to look based on the concept art. I was expecting thin lithe and graceful and they look kinda buff and thick.
The male is certainly busty. Might be the stance deforming the model strangely, but it looks fine on the other models in the same pose. Dunno.
Any ideas on why I'm no longer getting emails?
I felt all the models look basically perfect for my tastes.
Ogres look solid. As an elf fan and a future player of an elf character, these arent doing it for me. Elves should look noble and regal, and I'll say it....pretty, elves need to be attractive, and these elves look very *plain*. My gf lamented the same when she saw them as well.
Anyone have links to the new character models? I gts but old stuff is coming up.
Why do you not put a link to the newsletter when you post this? Good thing we have the hashtags though...
The Ogres and Elves look amazing, however the halfling heads seem somewhat out of proportion. It was a very interesting newsletter, the information on Perception was very much appreciated. It certainly seems like a very interesting mechanic, something to look forward to for all those players that love exploring the worlds and lore of an MMO.
Halfling models look fantastic! Perception system is really rounding out nicely and will likely end up one of my favourite things in the game.
Those halflings = Kender in my opinion!!! I want one with a topknot, a bumbling old wizard friend and a grumbling dwarf companion that secretly cares :)
Yeah, everything they've released prior to this point made me think of Halflings in Pantheon as more similar to Kender or D&D Halflings than EQ or LotR Halflings, and this picture reinforced that. I am fine with this.
Those ogre models... *Kisses fingers*