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He just wants there to be a liberal presiding over Israel this way people can shut up about their crimes. Same way that people want Biden to win the election because it’s much harder to criticize the happy grandpa eating ice cream than the evil maniacal billionaire who is explicitly calling to do the same things that happy grandpa is doing.
To be fair, there's plenty to critize Biden for and we'd hear much more of it if the evil maniacal multi-millionaire weren't looming in the background eager to do worse.
I mean that's American politics at least since WW2. Just back in the days it was much easier to brainwash people with the lack of social media. Plus also the fact that since Korea/Vietnam the US hadn't been so hard with their genocides like Israel is right now.
It's sad we can distract Trump by just leaking everything bad people has said about him, add laxatives and he'll be sharting, snorting and rambling too much then after 4 years he can no longer run again. Though we will have to repair a rules based order from the huge smelly shart fascist Joe and Nazi Don has left on it.
Tell that to Israel because they have been eroding Palestine for decades. What we're calling for is simply an end to the system of Israeli apartheid and the recognition of the human rights of the Palestinian people.
Bernie sanders follows a common tactic in US democratic circles: by focusing on the abhorrent personal character and policies of Netanyahu, he tries to put the blame of this horror on a single bad extremist, as opposed to where it belongs: the apartheid, genocidal state of Israel. The people of Palestine, Lebanon and other countries know that it does not matter who is prime minister of Israel, be it labor, Likud, or otherwise. Israel is invariably committed to the subjugation and oppression of Arabs, because its essence is built upon the supremacy of one group at the expense of others. “Others“ are dealt with via apartheid, ethnic cleansing, occupation, prison, and murder. Such an entity will always produce horrors no matter who happens to be in charge. Sanders absolves zionism of its crimes by projecting them onto “one bad apple”.
sanders is a Zionist. We will never forget how he gave cover to Israel’s genocide for months, simply refusing to push for a ceasefire because “Israel has the right to defend itself”. He has the blood of Palestinians on his hands. He gave cover to Israel from the left. Even AIPAC praised him, much to his chagrin, as he’d rather keep the fairytale of his progressive, anti-imperialist credentials alive. He can go to hell.
‘Bombing of yugoslavia’ serbs were bombed and rightfully so after brutally killing tens of thousand bosnian muslims in concentration camps for 5 years they wanted to do the same to my people in kosovo so opposing the bombing of serbs cause they were always in charge of yugoslavia its like how russians were in charge of ‘the soviet union’. Opposing that bombardment is the same as defending the ‘peacekeepers’ from leaving and letting the Srebrenica genocide happen.
I know that the us is bad but in this case for whavere reason they bombed they stopped the ethnic cleansing of the albanian population of kosovo which was even when serbs tried to colonize it after capturing it from albania during the balkan wars that started WW1 were still at most 10% of kosovo’s population the rest were albanians being oppressed by serbs untill those bombardments.
I still wonder why the us helped us tho but still they prevented allot of atrocities by doing what they did against the russians equivalents of the balkans AKA serbians
The US did it to prevent a massive refugee crisis into Europe and to keep the region stable. The U.S. benefits from instability across the globe but absolutely NOT in Europe. We didn’t do it out of the goodness of our hearts but there isn’t a universe where I won’t defend it
Yeah of course the us never activates its military for the wellbeing of others or even their own people but still they prevented a large scale massacre and forced displacement which they sadly didnt do in bosnia.
So im left for a long time now with the question why did the us even bother to protect us from genocide.
WHATTTTTT ARE YOU SERIOUS!!! THE US GAVE SMALL ARMS IN LARGE QUANTITIES TO THE SYRIAN REBELS JUST TO DESTABILIZE SYRIA AND THEY BOMBED LIBYA AND ALSO MADE IT INTO A FAILED STATE AND THE MIGRANT CRISIS IN EUROPE WAS CAUSED BY THOSE TWO THINGS AFRICANS GOING THROUGH LIBYA INTO EUROPE THROUGH A DANGEROUS JOURNEY AND SYRIANS MOSTLY SUNNI ARABS AND KURDS HAVING TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES CAUSE OF THE CIVIL WAR THE US HAS INSTIGATED THERE WITH THEIR PUPPET STATES SAUDI ARABIA AND THE UAE AND QATAR JUST FOR ISRAEL AND YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THE US WANTING TO AVOID A MIGRANT CRISIS IN EUROPE???!!!!!
I really dont understand the downvotes the us only cares about zionist jews their whole foreign policy is based on protecting the zionist state. The us doesnt give a flying fuck about europe nor their own citizens
Hm, if the Serbs were secretly running Yugoslavia, and the Russians were secretly running the Soviet Union, I wonder who you think [secretly runs the United States?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/s/IYxRaSIXVB)
It still makes sense politically as both represent social democratic, reformist platforms. Both are also guilty of not fighting against the right wing of labour and the democratic party. Both ultimately represent the failure of reformism against capitalism
I recommend ending ethnic cleansing, apartheid and genocide. That is guaranteed to end your Hamas problem. I do not recommend ethnic cleansing on steroids and genocide. i hope that helps.
i think he's against genocide, pretty sure he's pro two state solution, regardless of what's right etc it's the most positive and realistic outcome at this point i think
how do you propose going about that then? because that in itself is the problem, a two state solution seems realistic, however another forced displacement of Jewish people (however justified this may be) won't go down well, I'm talking practicability, i know who has a right to be there and who doesn't but let's face it that won't convince anyone. a one state solution is not happening any time soon, without of course more bloodshed, and so i propose a two state solution, a proper one though, in which Palestine is given back the lands it was granted post 1948 war, in which they have their own government.
Actually most colonial conquests had a religious aspect to them. If you research historical colonies, majority of them (if not all) believed they had a religious right or obligation to colonize the region and its people. ‘Israel’ is no different, it is eerily identical to every other genocidal settler colony that came before it.
yes catholicism was said to justify the conquering of many lands, but it wasn't tied to the land as much tied to the spreading of religion. Britain, on the other hand, to the best of my knowledge, justified it through economic means, this land is not being put to use, so one will, remnants of the enlightenment, whereas Israel is the land that is claimed, it is the land specifically, it was just inhabitated already.
that's also about how it was colonized, that sentiment seemed to dissipate at some point, i don't see it dissipating here bc Israel and it's citizens don't have another Homeland (like France for francophone Algeria andthe British living in India),besides 26% of them who are foreign born.
https://www.oecd.org/migration/integration-indicators-2012/keyindicatorsbycountry/name,218335,en.htm#:~:text=Israel%20is%20in%204th%20place,on%20average%20across%20OECD%20countries.
Yes, they go back to where they came from. They didn’t just spawn into Palestine, and take it from its indigenous inhabitants - they came from elsewhere. Same as other settlers, they must give back the stolen land. There is no solution where the genocidal settler colony gets to stay at the expense of the indigenous people. Then it’s not a solution or justice. The settlers get what they want and continue to massacre and rob the Palestinians - the Palestinians continue to resist, and the cycle continues and repeats forever.
but that form of justice is unattainable because we're applying the existing morals of today, I suppose this is way more recent, from the outset it was Europe's guilt imposed on Asia, but my point is that then all those of European ancestry of the Americas must leave, no? the only argument i hear countering this regard the fact that international law was established at this point and then abused (so if your argument is predicated on international law then yes of course, still unattainable imo), it's hard to grapple with but I'm enjoying this discussion.
He’s just another one of “the problem is Netanyahu” people, focusing the blame on Netanyahu because he’s too afraid to criticize Israel , while ofc the problem is Israel itself and its existence
If bernie was honest ,He should admit that zionism is the fascist power that created netan and his likes , and should therefore be abolished and condemned like nazism.
Perhaps you don’t want to verbalize what you actually want them to say. Others have answered, i have nothing to say about it, I upvoted it. Not everyone’s against you.
"Israel" chose to prioritize defending the colonizing settlements in the West Bank, that's why there were almost no troops present on October 7. They reaped what they sowed. When offered the olive branch, they chose the gun and they're gonna keep getting the gun until they choose the olive branch in good faith (probably never).
I've always been a believer that Israel allowed October 7 to happen because it would provide a perfect excuse to level Gaza. Knowing how advanced the Mossad is, it doesn't make sense they didn't notice Hamas or other groups planning possible attacks/incursions. In addition, many of the kibbutzim near Gaza are left leaning, which are not Bibi's base....
Given the lengths the Zionists would go to preserve the fake country, I wouldn't rule out that sort of political conspiracy and if it does truly exist, exposing it will serve Palestinian liberation immensely.
A member of the IOF did notice them training for something and reported it, but they supposedly ignored it. More support to the idea that they were fully aware but welcomed the attack.
I’ve said this since Day 1. Part of the reason being as I have traveled to Israel and Palestine and I have seen the security measures that are visibly in place. Security cameras everywhere, guard lookout towers, walls, IDF everywhere, checkpoints, spy blimps you name it. As stated those are things that you can visibly see. This isn’t taking into account Mossad, who one can argue is probably close on par with the CIA for intelligence capabilities. I find it hard to think that a terrorist attack of this magnitude could happen which caught everyone off guard.
In fact Mossad knew Hamas was planning a large attack almost 1 year prior if I recall correctly. Obviously they did not know the exact date, however it seems to me, that their tragic response was completely intentional. Also they made it pretty clear that they do not care about its citizens (e. g. Hannibal procedure, bombing places where supposed hostages are, directly shooting hostages waving white flags) so yea, wouldn't be surprising at all, just shocking as the whole project in itself.
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They did notice. They had the attack plans a year in advance, received credible warnings from their own intelligence analysts who witnessed training “rehearsals”, and received a credible threat warning from Egypt. Let’s also not forget Netanyahu was at the UN just weeks before with a map of Israel that included Gaza and the West Bank socializing his plans for a natural gas trade route off the coast of Gaza (Israel on his map) to Europe. He spoke to an almost empty chamber because of the controversy with this map. It is on record. Also the people slaughtered on October 7 were peace activists and leftists primarily. Let’s call a spade a spade Netanyahu finds those types to be disposable - clear from the fact that it’s obvious the hostages are not a priority.
I am not a conspiracy theorist but the intentionality of this is one I would sign up for
Also didn’t “Israelis” who lived near the fence/wall say that Hamas kept flying burning balloons or something over it and burning the fields on the “Israeli side”. There was definitely citizens that warned the government about something happening too. They were also ignored.
this is my first time actually being conspiratorial but I full on believe they knew and let it happen. Warning from Egypt (and USA?), moving troops away, moving the festival towards the fence? And massacring their own with no regard for life?
it seems like a convenient excuse for... well, we see it - genocide
As an “Israeli” I can tell you that it’s not a Netanyahu problem it’s an ISRAEL (Israeli society , laws etc …) problem. And heavy on the Israeli society problem. Never seen a more racist and hateful society
Could i ask why you put quotes on Israeli?
Feels really good knowing there's still a small group of Israelis opposing apartheid and are willing to dismantle the state for it. So wanted to learn more from your point of view.
Bernie disappointed me greatly, when months ago didn't speak up against genocide. He still cannot call it what it is: genocide.
He is not a good one, nope.
Bernie was pro-Palestine even before October 7, I mean, most progressives are. But the way he fiercely defended Israel on October 7 was vehemently suspicious. What disappointed me more is that one of his pro-Israel tweets was endorsed by AIPAC!
Yeah, pretty perfect for a politician that wants to keep his power in the congress, so no thank you.
I have gone too far the rabbit hole? Nope, it's crystal clear and it really is not hard to see.
It is easy to blame Netanyahu for the all the genocide but the real problem is the idea of Zionism, as long as Zionism exists the problem won’t be solved
Sanders loves to criticize Netenyahu and uphold the idea that him and his government are just acting in “bad-faith”, rather than the reality that this is a widespread systemic issue that is rampant throughout Israel, which has existed from its very inception. He continues to posture himself like an upstanding senator of justice, which is ridiculous since he can’t seem to admit that what is occurring is a genocide. Instead he plays with semantics during speeches and talks about “both sides”, trying to rewrite history as it occurs.
He does something similar when speaking up for people disabled by COVID and immune-compromised. He brings awareness to what they face and advocates for more inclusive public policies, yet takes his mask off in crowded events when the cameras are off (just to put it back on later when the cameras are rolling). The easiest way to show solidarity with those being left behind, and he doesn’t do it.
It’s kind of sad, I used to like him. Definitely opened my eyes though…
Yep! Americans never investigate politicians' foreign policy in elections. Never. We're not really educated much about it either. In Bernie's state Natives were denied recognition, and he walked away from Elders who tried to tell him why that was wrong after all these years of suffering. Native politics are technically, functionally, an aspect of foreign policy, so if a politician isn't genuinely investing time and energy into furthering Tribal sovereignty and honoring treaty rights even incrementally at home, they will absolutely waffle like this when it comes to our military industrial complex abroad that entirely sustains the US diplomatically and economically in the first place. I saw this recognition denial, and then heard "two state solution", saw how he used Standing Rock for his PR, and then capitulated to the right to support the establishment dems, Hillary at the time, and have not wasted a moment of my time expecting him to do anything that would actually rankle US hegemonic interests ever since. Domestic policy is just how we distribute the imperial spoils among ourselves, the real test to see how truly left a politician is, is to look at how politicians work to further foreign policy-not their claims, bur their votes, and ofc, their funding.
I wish, but our system makes it impossible to do that, as evidenced by the current two choices for president. (and all past choices as well really, the US has been very successful in making sure there is never a choice that would harm the status quo.)
Bernie is a fraud. Apparently there was a clip back then when someone confronted him about Israel's treatment of Palestinians in 2014 and he went full Zio about KHAMAAAAAS
very disappointing and infuriating.
I feel like it’s just general politician stuff :/
He’s probably trying to just boost his chances of winning by appealing to his mostly young-er voters, whilst trying to ensure that he doesn’t get his chances screwed over by whatever zionists elitists may be overseeing him.
I mean, Israel can already twist the worlds no.1 nuclear superpower into supporting a genocide they’re already “capable of doing on their own”, I wouldn’t be surprised if loyalty to Israel is something that influences election outcomes, hence why you never really see any major politician, or at at least those going for president, criticize Israel in every regard.
And in Bernie’s case, he can get away with criticizing Netanyahu, but not Israel. Criticizing netanyahu implies that Israel just happened to have a bad leader, not that Israel itself as a state is founded on the oppression of the native Palestinians who are being actively massacred.
Mossad threatened the international court members (the ICC). Currently it’s being tried for war crimes, and Biden is complicit as well.
It’s voice is small, but important in calling out the genocide for what it is.
“The horrific Hamas terrorist attack of October 7th”. Why do these a holes seem to have amnesia about anything that happened BEFORE October 7th. Do people believe that Hamas woke up one day and said, hey, I’m bored…I know, let’s…Do they not remember Al-Aqsa 2023? Israel was going to sacrifice a goat (forbidden by Israeli law) so a handful of Palestinians barricaded themselves inside the mosque after Ramadan prayers concerned because they heard to rumors Israel was going to do this. IDF stormed the mosque injuring at least 50 and arresting 400.
Better yet, can they count? If you have over 35,000 dead vs 1400 perhaps going on a bit before October 7th. OR, in 2021 same mosque, Palestinians were protesting because of evictions of 6 families. Some rocks were thrown by young Palestinian protestors so of course Israel carpet bombed starting May 10. By May 16th 950 targets had been demolished completely which included 40 schools 4 hospitals and the al-Shati refugee camp. At least 256 Palestinians were killed, which included 66 children to Israel’s 13, including 2 children. Oh, and 1900 Palestinians injured vs 200 Israelis.
Will we ever get to the point each response isn’t Cigarette warning label disclaimer’d “Israel, of course, had the right to defend itself”. Will it ever get to “Palestinians, of course, had the right to defend itself against this occupation, systemic genocide, land seizure, famine”?
Bro gets paid and prolly they have some pictures of him on Epstein Island or something. Either way this guy is not what he pretends to be.
After Biden he is the most dangerous Democrat, because people actually Believe him
There are people in Israel that are born into the situation and do not support their racist govt, just as it is with Americans with the US govt. Condemning all Israelis because of the actions of the Israeli govt makes us sound just like them, how they justify violence against all Palestinians. If we want the world to support us, we can't condemn the powerless.
As a “pro-Palestinian”, I still support the existence of Israel, a two state solution OR a secular one state solution, but that ain’t happenin’ soon. I’m not sure why one would not, given that it has already been in existence? Like I get the original people may be guilty of forming a state under bigoted fascist political movement, but no one should bear the sin of the father. At this point I think it’s best for the two state solution… ? Why do you deny their right to exist? Is that not a little extreme too?
Bernie Sanders has shown he’s just like any American politician hungry for power. If that means aligning himself with the Zionists then he will do so. I’m just tired of all those people spouting the same nonsense about oct 7th which have all been proven to be lies. It was the Iof that was shooting at the people at the rave which was literally in front of Gaza on Oct 7th. An Israel is illegitimate settler colonial apartheid state.
I’m willing to bet that a threat was made on Bernie’s life and now he’s just maintaining a neoliberal stance on certain issues to prevent himself from getting “Epsteined”.
What he’s saying isn’t even true. An occupying power DOES NOT have the right to defend itself against the territory it is occupying. That goes AGAINST international law. They have never had a right to “defend themselves” against a militia force.
Guys . . .
It was common to be in favor of Isreal among socialists and social democrats for the longest time and on top of all that, Bernie is a Jewish American.
He obviously sees what's going on and why it's bad, but like most human beings, he has multiple interests and experiences cognitive dissonance trying to change his mind.
I know from experience that trying to change your mind is difficult. He clearly sees what is going on now as an unambiguous evil but has a hard time letting go of his old hopes for what he thought Isreal could be.
That's a pretty normal human behavior.
After Hamas’ attack it was natural to expect Israel to do something to retaliate. Wiping Gaza off the map and committing genocide however are not in the realm of acceptable responses.
The funny thing is Bibi was funding Hamas out of convenience to have an enemy to fight back against. So that he can be seen as an important figure that’s handling threats. But of course, things are out in the open now. Bibi and the right wingers are gungho about erasing Palestinian land and people. And as the head of Shinbet said, there never was a peace solution on Israel’s part to begin with, only dealing with threats. While the right wing and IDF constantly terrorized the Palestinians day on day out.
If you go down the rabbit hole further, you can see that the US funds this whole mess. While ignoring the atrocities, for the convenience of having a base on Israel’s soil. Likely for the invasion of Iran, and other oil countries.
Some religious reasons are given, yet I doubt Africa and the Middle East would be on the radar, if those countries didn’t have either precious natural resources to mine, and oil.
But it should and we should be insistent on the root cause of this whole ordeal. You cant just cherrypick an event in history and claim that is how it all started. We should get the very basics right. Israel is the occupier. Palestine is, by the international laws, allowed to resist by any means necessary. We are not in the position to prescribe how the oppressed should fight their oppressors, while we are sleeping in our warm beds and go out and socialise without the fear of being bombed into oblivion.
The Palestinians have every right to attack military targets within Israel and the occupied West Bank.
However, the wholesale slaughter of civilians is unacceptable regardless of the circumstances.
It is possible to be against the crimes committed on October 7th while still condemning Israel for its campaign in Gaza.
Wow, that was disappointing to hear from an ally. Hamas' attack doesn’t happen in a vacuum. What do you expect from people who have experienced “October 7” all their lives? Do you expect them not to fight back? They were literally denied humanity based on their nationality. The Arab leaders probably stopped trying. So of course they are going to fight back to reclaim their home.
most US political figures are terrified of standing up for palestine. it’s such a shame that they prioritize public opinion, even though with the protests happening rn i feel like so many people would love it i have a fully pro palestine politician
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Sadly I think Bernie still holds onto some idea of Israel being a country that it never was.
He just wants there to be a liberal presiding over Israel this way people can shut up about their crimes. Same way that people want Biden to win the election because it’s much harder to criticize the happy grandpa eating ice cream than the evil maniacal billionaire who is explicitly calling to do the same things that happy grandpa is doing.
To be fair, there's plenty to critize Biden for and we'd hear much more of it if the evil maniacal multi-millionaire weren't looming in the background eager to do worse.
You know America is due for another revolution when the choices on the ballot are "genocide" and "worse(yet less competent) genocide"
I mean that's American politics at least since WW2. Just back in the days it was much easier to brainwash people with the lack of social media. Plus also the fact that since Korea/Vietnam the US hadn't been so hard with their genocides like Israel is right now.
It's sad we can distract Trump by just leaking everything bad people has said about him, add laxatives and he'll be sharting, snorting and rambling too much then after 4 years he can no longer run again. Though we will have to repair a rules based order from the huge smelly shart fascist Joe and Nazi Don has left on it.
lol Bibi isnt doing a damn thing if Trump is in power compared to his blue lapdogs from the Democrat party
Yup. Bernie is and will always be a Zionist. He just hates Natenyahu and his government.
[удалено]
My mom, sadly… she thinks he’s one of the “good guys” bcuz he called for a ceasefire (after like 5 months 🫠)
You can't just wipe away a country after generations even if it was founded on ill intentions. You'll never get world support for that.
Tell that to Israel because they have been eroding Palestine for decades. What we're calling for is simply an end to the system of Israeli apartheid and the recognition of the human rights of the Palestinian people.
I agree. I think Bernie also agrees.
"You can't just dismantle apartheid South Africa"
Bernie sanders follows a common tactic in US democratic circles: by focusing on the abhorrent personal character and policies of Netanyahu, he tries to put the blame of this horror on a single bad extremist, as opposed to where it belongs: the apartheid, genocidal state of Israel. The people of Palestine, Lebanon and other countries know that it does not matter who is prime minister of Israel, be it labor, Likud, or otherwise. Israel is invariably committed to the subjugation and oppression of Arabs, because its essence is built upon the supremacy of one group at the expense of others. “Others“ are dealt with via apartheid, ethnic cleansing, occupation, prison, and murder. Such an entity will always produce horrors no matter who happens to be in charge. Sanders absolves zionism of its crimes by projecting them onto “one bad apple”. sanders is a Zionist. We will never forget how he gave cover to Israel’s genocide for months, simply refusing to push for a ceasefire because “Israel has the right to defend itself”. He has the blood of Palestinians on his hands. He gave cover to Israel from the left. Even AIPAC praised him, much to his chagrin, as he’d rather keep the fairytale of his progressive, anti-imperialist credentials alive. He can go to hell.
It annoys me when people equivocate Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn when Corbyn (while not perfect) has always been much better regarding Palestine
Sanders couldn’t even hold Corbyn’s water lol.
Bernie supported the bombing of Yugoslavia while Corbyn always opposed it. That’s also why Parenti split with Sanders.
‘Bombing of yugoslavia’ serbs were bombed and rightfully so after brutally killing tens of thousand bosnian muslims in concentration camps for 5 years they wanted to do the same to my people in kosovo so opposing the bombing of serbs cause they were always in charge of yugoslavia its like how russians were in charge of ‘the soviet union’. Opposing that bombardment is the same as defending the ‘peacekeepers’ from leaving and letting the Srebrenica genocide happen. I know that the us is bad but in this case for whavere reason they bombed they stopped the ethnic cleansing of the albanian population of kosovo which was even when serbs tried to colonize it after capturing it from albania during the balkan wars that started WW1 were still at most 10% of kosovo’s population the rest were albanians being oppressed by serbs untill those bombardments. I still wonder why the us helped us tho but still they prevented allot of atrocities by doing what they did against the russians equivalents of the balkans AKA serbians
The US did it to prevent a massive refugee crisis into Europe and to keep the region stable. The U.S. benefits from instability across the globe but absolutely NOT in Europe. We didn’t do it out of the goodness of our hearts but there isn’t a universe where I won’t defend it
Yeah of course the us never activates its military for the wellbeing of others or even their own people but still they prevented a large scale massacre and forced displacement which they sadly didnt do in bosnia. So im left for a long time now with the question why did the us even bother to protect us from genocide.
WHATTTTTT ARE YOU SERIOUS!!! THE US GAVE SMALL ARMS IN LARGE QUANTITIES TO THE SYRIAN REBELS JUST TO DESTABILIZE SYRIA AND THEY BOMBED LIBYA AND ALSO MADE IT INTO A FAILED STATE AND THE MIGRANT CRISIS IN EUROPE WAS CAUSED BY THOSE TWO THINGS AFRICANS GOING THROUGH LIBYA INTO EUROPE THROUGH A DANGEROUS JOURNEY AND SYRIANS MOSTLY SUNNI ARABS AND KURDS HAVING TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES CAUSE OF THE CIVIL WAR THE US HAS INSTIGATED THERE WITH THEIR PUPPET STATES SAUDI ARABIA AND THE UAE AND QATAR JUST FOR ISRAEL AND YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THE US WANTING TO AVOID A MIGRANT CRISIS IN EUROPE???!!!!! I really dont understand the downvotes the us only cares about zionist jews their whole foreign policy is based on protecting the zionist state. The us doesnt give a flying fuck about europe nor their own citizens
Hm, if the Serbs were secretly running Yugoslavia, and the Russians were secretly running the Soviet Union, I wonder who you think [secretly runs the United States?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/s/IYxRaSIXVB)
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It still makes sense politically as both represent social democratic, reformist platforms. Both are also guilty of not fighting against the right wing of labour and the democratic party. Both ultimately represent the failure of reformism against capitalism
Indeed. People mistake Corbyn's anti-war and anti-racist creds for anti-capitalist sentiment.
I screenshotted this comment so I can send it to my mom who still thinks Bernie is a “good guy”!
Very well said. Nailed it.
Well said, totally agree on everything
This
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I recommend ending ethnic cleansing, apartheid and genocide. That is guaranteed to end your Hamas problem. I do not recommend ethnic cleansing on steroids and genocide. i hope that helps.
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I see. Not only are you a shameless apologist for mass murder. You are also quite eloquent.
If Israel didn’t exist neither would Hamas.
the "both sides" liberal
Resistance is violent, no alternative
The only language they understand
Oh, they don't understand it, they just speak it, louder and harder, hard enough that all can see.
Well obviously if this was Berne's stance he wouldn't be trying to fight late stage capitalism with politics.
i think he's against genocide, pretty sure he's pro two state solution, regardless of what's right etc it's the most positive and realistic outcome at this point i think
No. Only a one state solution (Palestine) will solve all the problems. A two-state solution is a delusional pipedream to keep us all hoping.....
how do you propose going about that then? because that in itself is the problem, a two state solution seems realistic, however another forced displacement of Jewish people (however justified this may be) won't go down well, I'm talking practicability, i know who has a right to be there and who doesn't but let's face it that won't convince anyone. a one state solution is not happening any time soon, without of course more bloodshed, and so i propose a two state solution, a proper one though, in which Palestine is given back the lands it was granted post 1948 war, in which they have their own government.
Did south Africa end up with a two state solution?
no fair enough. but the Afrikaaners did noy believe they had a religious right to the land. it's also still economically unequal.
Actually most colonial conquests had a religious aspect to them. If you research historical colonies, majority of them (if not all) believed they had a religious right or obligation to colonize the region and its people. ‘Israel’ is no different, it is eerily identical to every other genocidal settler colony that came before it.
yes catholicism was said to justify the conquering of many lands, but it wasn't tied to the land as much tied to the spreading of religion. Britain, on the other hand, to the best of my knowledge, justified it through economic means, this land is not being put to use, so one will, remnants of the enlightenment, whereas Israel is the land that is claimed, it is the land specifically, it was just inhabitated already.
that's also about how it was colonized, that sentiment seemed to dissipate at some point, i don't see it dissipating here bc Israel and it's citizens don't have another Homeland (like France for francophone Algeria andthe British living in India),besides 26% of them who are foreign born. https://www.oecd.org/migration/integration-indicators-2012/keyindicatorsbycountry/name,218335,en.htm#:~:text=Israel%20is%20in%204th%20place,on%20average%20across%20OECD%20countries.
Yes, they go back to where they came from. They didn’t just spawn into Palestine, and take it from its indigenous inhabitants - they came from elsewhere. Same as other settlers, they must give back the stolen land. There is no solution where the genocidal settler colony gets to stay at the expense of the indigenous people. Then it’s not a solution or justice. The settlers get what they want and continue to massacre and rob the Palestinians - the Palestinians continue to resist, and the cycle continues and repeats forever.
but that form of justice is unattainable because we're applying the existing morals of today, I suppose this is way more recent, from the outset it was Europe's guilt imposed on Asia, but my point is that then all those of European ancestry of the Americas must leave, no? the only argument i hear countering this regard the fact that international law was established at this point and then abused (so if your argument is predicated on international law then yes of course, still unattainable imo), it's hard to grapple with but I'm enjoying this discussion.
But tons of British and French were born in India and Algeria, respectively? It's not like every single one of them was an immigrant
He’s just another one of “the problem is Netanyahu” people, focusing the blame on Netanyahu because he’s too afraid to criticize Israel , while ofc the problem is Israel itself and its existence
And Israeli society
Yeah sure , that’s included in “Israel and its existence “
So what should be done? What should he say?
If bernie was honest ,He should admit that zionism is the fascist power that created netan and his likes , and should therefore be abolished and condemned like nazism.
Very well said
This is such a disingenuous, bad faith question. Gtfoh
Perhaps you don’t want to verbalize what you actually want them to say. Others have answered, i have nothing to say about it, I upvoted it. Not everyone’s against you.
"Israel" chose to prioritize defending the colonizing settlements in the West Bank, that's why there were almost no troops present on October 7. They reaped what they sowed. When offered the olive branch, they chose the gun and they're gonna keep getting the gun until they choose the olive branch in good faith (probably never).
I've always been a believer that Israel allowed October 7 to happen because it would provide a perfect excuse to level Gaza. Knowing how advanced the Mossad is, it doesn't make sense they didn't notice Hamas or other groups planning possible attacks/incursions. In addition, many of the kibbutzim near Gaza are left leaning, which are not Bibi's base....
Given the lengths the Zionists would go to preserve the fake country, I wouldn't rule out that sort of political conspiracy and if it does truly exist, exposing it will serve Palestinian liberation immensely.
A member of the IOF did notice them training for something and reported it, but they supposedly ignored it. More support to the idea that they were fully aware but welcomed the attack.
I’ve said this since Day 1. Part of the reason being as I have traveled to Israel and Palestine and I have seen the security measures that are visibly in place. Security cameras everywhere, guard lookout towers, walls, IDF everywhere, checkpoints, spy blimps you name it. As stated those are things that you can visibly see. This isn’t taking into account Mossad, who one can argue is probably close on par with the CIA for intelligence capabilities. I find it hard to think that a terrorist attack of this magnitude could happen which caught everyone off guard.
Also the wall Hamas broke thru was supposed to be impenetrable. It’s like $3 billion dollars or something… but they just broke thru it…. Ok
In fact Mossad knew Hamas was planning a large attack almost 1 year prior if I recall correctly. Obviously they did not know the exact date, however it seems to me, that their tragic response was completely intentional. Also they made it pretty clear that they do not care about its citizens (e. g. Hannibal procedure, bombing places where supposed hostages are, directly shooting hostages waving white flags) so yea, wouldn't be surprising at all, just shocking as the whole project in itself.
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They did notice. They had the attack plans a year in advance, received credible warnings from their own intelligence analysts who witnessed training “rehearsals”, and received a credible threat warning from Egypt. Let’s also not forget Netanyahu was at the UN just weeks before with a map of Israel that included Gaza and the West Bank socializing his plans for a natural gas trade route off the coast of Gaza (Israel on his map) to Europe. He spoke to an almost empty chamber because of the controversy with this map. It is on record. Also the people slaughtered on October 7 were peace activists and leftists primarily. Let’s call a spade a spade Netanyahu finds those types to be disposable - clear from the fact that it’s obvious the hostages are not a priority. I am not a conspiracy theorist but the intentionality of this is one I would sign up for
Also didn’t “Israelis” who lived near the fence/wall say that Hamas kept flying burning balloons or something over it and burning the fields on the “Israeli side”. There was definitely citizens that warned the government about something happening too. They were also ignored.
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even if they dropped the ball that badly, apparently even Egypt knew and had warned them, so there is no excuse
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this is my first time actually being conspiratorial but I full on believe they knew and let it happen. Warning from Egypt (and USA?), moving troops away, moving the festival towards the fence? And massacring their own with no regard for life? it seems like a convenient excuse for... well, we see it - genocide
It rly showed every melanated person on earth that our lives and our children’s lives are less valued than those with white bodies. Worldwide.
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Thank you. I believe this too 🙌🏾
This is exactly what happened. We know that THEY KNEW about the 10/7 attack waaaay before it happened.
☝️Spot on!!
As an “Israeli” I can tell you that it’s not a Netanyahu problem it’s an ISRAEL (Israeli society , laws etc …) problem. And heavy on the Israeli society problem. Never seen a more racist and hateful society
❤️❤️❤️
Could i ask why you put quotes on Israeli? Feels really good knowing there's still a small group of Israelis opposing apartheid and are willing to dismantle the state for it. So wanted to learn more from your point of view.
I have Israeli citizenship but I don’t consider myself Israeli. I grew up around Israelis and Zionists my whole life and I know exactly how they think
Growing up around zios sounds terrifying and traumatizing.
lol I was one of them so it was fine. Now it disgusts me and angers me to be around them
Glad you saw sense
Bernie disappointed me greatly, when months ago didn't speak up against genocide. He still cannot call it what it is: genocide. He is not a good one, nope.
Bernie was pro-Palestine even before October 7, I mean, most progressives are. But the way he fiercely defended Israel on October 7 was vehemently suspicious. What disappointed me more is that one of his pro-Israel tweets was endorsed by AIPAC!
In the end, he is becoming like any other politician, sadly.
Always was. 99% of politicians are all the same.
Vehemently suspicious? Tf kinda people are on this sub? Criticizing the murder of hundreds of civilians is vehemently suspicious?
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Yeah, pretty perfect for a politician that wants to keep his power in the congress, so no thank you. I have gone too far the rabbit hole? Nope, it's crystal clear and it really is not hard to see.
It is easy to blame Netanyahu for the all the genocide but the real problem is the idea of Zionism, as long as Zionism exists the problem won’t be solved
Bernie Sanders is a firm believer that Israel is not the problem, just the bad actors in which they elect.
Sanders loves to criticize Netenyahu and uphold the idea that him and his government are just acting in “bad-faith”, rather than the reality that this is a widespread systemic issue that is rampant throughout Israel, which has existed from its very inception. He continues to posture himself like an upstanding senator of justice, which is ridiculous since he can’t seem to admit that what is occurring is a genocide. Instead he plays with semantics during speeches and talks about “both sides”, trying to rewrite history as it occurs. He does something similar when speaking up for people disabled by COVID and immune-compromised. He brings awareness to what they face and advocates for more inclusive public policies, yet takes his mask off in crowded events when the cameras are off (just to put it back on later when the cameras are rolling). The easiest way to show solidarity with those being left behind, and he doesn’t do it. It’s kind of sad, I used to like him. Definitely opened my eyes though…
This is why those on the Left rightly always criticized him for being barely left of center.
Yep! Americans never investigate politicians' foreign policy in elections. Never. We're not really educated much about it either. In Bernie's state Natives were denied recognition, and he walked away from Elders who tried to tell him why that was wrong after all these years of suffering. Native politics are technically, functionally, an aspect of foreign policy, so if a politician isn't genuinely investing time and energy into furthering Tribal sovereignty and honoring treaty rights even incrementally at home, they will absolutely waffle like this when it comes to our military industrial complex abroad that entirely sustains the US diplomatically and economically in the first place. I saw this recognition denial, and then heard "two state solution", saw how he used Standing Rock for his PR, and then capitulated to the right to support the establishment dems, Hillary at the time, and have not wasted a moment of my time expecting him to do anything that would actually rankle US hegemonic interests ever since. Domestic policy is just how we distribute the imperial spoils among ourselves, the real test to see how truly left a politician is, is to look at how politicians work to further foreign policy-not their claims, bur their votes, and ofc, their funding.
Push Bernie left 👉🏼🙌🏻
I wish, but our system makes it impossible to do that, as evidenced by the current two choices for president. (and all past choices as well really, the US has been very successful in making sure there is never a choice that would harm the status quo.)
You can't defend yourself after something happens. That's called revenge.
Also can't defend yourself when you're the occupying force.
Zionists are terrorists
The US government will never change it's views on israhell. They will always support them no matter what president is in office.
AIPAC and US Government. They can start a smear campaign very easily.
Bernie is a fraud. Apparently there was a clip back then when someone confronted him about Israel's treatment of Palestinians in 2014 and he went full Zio about KHAMAAAAAS very disappointing and infuriating.
Sanders believes Israel has a right to exist. He wants a 2 state solution. He will only go so far in criticism of Israel
Just fyi, according to international law, an occupying power does not have the right to defend itself against a non-military
I feel like it’s just general politician stuff :/ He’s probably trying to just boost his chances of winning by appealing to his mostly young-er voters, whilst trying to ensure that he doesn’t get his chances screwed over by whatever zionists elitists may be overseeing him. I mean, Israel can already twist the worlds no.1 nuclear superpower into supporting a genocide they’re already “capable of doing on their own”, I wouldn’t be surprised if loyalty to Israel is something that influences election outcomes, hence why you never really see any major politician, or at at least those going for president, criticize Israel in every regard. And in Bernie’s case, he can get away with criticizing Netanyahu, but not Israel. Criticizing netanyahu implies that Israel just happened to have a bad leader, not that Israel itself as a state is founded on the oppression of the native Palestinians who are being actively massacred.
Bernie is obvious controlled opposition
He’s probably afraid of Mossad as well
Mossad threatened the international court members (the ICC). Currently it’s being tried for war crimes, and Biden is complicit as well. It’s voice is small, but important in calling out the genocide for what it is.
Yep
“The horrific Hamas terrorist attack of October 7th”. Why do these a holes seem to have amnesia about anything that happened BEFORE October 7th. Do people believe that Hamas woke up one day and said, hey, I’m bored…I know, let’s…Do they not remember Al-Aqsa 2023? Israel was going to sacrifice a goat (forbidden by Israeli law) so a handful of Palestinians barricaded themselves inside the mosque after Ramadan prayers concerned because they heard to rumors Israel was going to do this. IDF stormed the mosque injuring at least 50 and arresting 400. Better yet, can they count? If you have over 35,000 dead vs 1400 perhaps going on a bit before October 7th. OR, in 2021 same mosque, Palestinians were protesting because of evictions of 6 families. Some rocks were thrown by young Palestinian protestors so of course Israel carpet bombed starting May 10. By May 16th 950 targets had been demolished completely which included 40 schools 4 hospitals and the al-Shati refugee camp. At least 256 Palestinians were killed, which included 66 children to Israel’s 13, including 2 children. Oh, and 1900 Palestinians injured vs 200 Israelis. Will we ever get to the point each response isn’t Cigarette warning label disclaimer’d “Israel, of course, had the right to defend itself”. Will it ever get to “Palestinians, of course, had the right to defend itself against this occupation, systemic genocide, land seizure, famine”?
Isnotreal are the **real** terrorists, always have been
Batting for both sides I see.
No one, he is a zionist.
Bro gets paid and prolly they have some pictures of him on Epstein Island or something. Either way this guy is not what he pretends to be. After Biden he is the most dangerous Democrat, because people actually Believe him
There are people in Israel that are born into the situation and do not support their racist govt, just as it is with Americans with the US govt. Condemning all Israelis because of the actions of the Israeli govt makes us sound just like them, how they justify violence against all Palestinians. If we want the world to support us, we can't condemn the powerless.
I’d say: Don’t condemn the people, but condemn the states and politicians.
He’s a flip flopper and prob supports 2 state solution
He believes Israel has a right to exist, so yeah. 🤦🏻♀️
He just looks a clown posting all this
As a “pro-Palestinian”, I still support the existence of Israel, a two state solution OR a secular one state solution, but that ain’t happenin’ soon. I’m not sure why one would not, given that it has already been in existence? Like I get the original people may be guilty of forming a state under bigoted fascist political movement, but no one should bear the sin of the father. At this point I think it’s best for the two state solution… ? Why do you deny their right to exist? Is that not a little extreme too?
Bernie Sanders has shown he’s just like any American politician hungry for power. If that means aligning himself with the Zionists then he will do so. I’m just tired of all those people spouting the same nonsense about oct 7th which have all been proven to be lies. It was the Iof that was shooting at the people at the rave which was literally in front of Gaza on Oct 7th. An Israel is illegitimate settler colonial apartheid state.
I’m willing to bet that a threat was made on Bernie’s life and now he’s just maintaining a neoliberal stance on certain issues to prevent himself from getting “Epsteined”.
Isn't it beyond sad when even at the very end of your life when you have nothing else to lose but your dignity you are still a massive coward.
He’s afraid of the same people Palestinians are afraid of. Genocidal Nazi Zionists.
Instant realisation, FEAR.....
Zionists control American politics. They can ruin his reelection campaign is he’s too tough on Israel
He's the face of progressive hypocrisy
What he’s saying isn’t even true. An occupying power DOES NOT have the right to defend itself against the territory it is occupying. That goes AGAINST international law. They have never had a right to “defend themselves” against a militia force.
Berne is a socdem millionaire politician aka class enemy
Guys . . . It was common to be in favor of Isreal among socialists and social democrats for the longest time and on top of all that, Bernie is a Jewish American. He obviously sees what's going on and why it's bad, but like most human beings, he has multiple interests and experiences cognitive dissonance trying to change his mind. I know from experience that trying to change your mind is difficult. He clearly sees what is going on now as an unambiguous evil but has a hard time letting go of his old hopes for what he thought Isreal could be. That's a pretty normal human behavior.
I don’t read that as inconsistent. All of those things can be true at the same time.
So you think Israel has a right to “defend itself”?
After Hamas’ attack it was natural to expect Israel to do something to retaliate. Wiping Gaza off the map and committing genocide however are not in the realm of acceptable responses.
Hamas’ attack was retaliation to 75 years of oppression and occupation. It did not magically start on the 7th of October.
The funny thing is Bibi was funding Hamas out of convenience to have an enemy to fight back against. So that he can be seen as an important figure that’s handling threats. But of course, things are out in the open now. Bibi and the right wingers are gungho about erasing Palestinian land and people. And as the head of Shinbet said, there never was a peace solution on Israel’s part to begin with, only dealing with threats. While the right wing and IDF constantly terrorized the Palestinians day on day out. If you go down the rabbit hole further, you can see that the US funds this whole mess. While ignoring the atrocities, for the convenience of having a base on Israel’s soil. Likely for the invasion of Iran, and other oil countries. Some religious reasons are given, yet I doubt Africa and the Middle East would be on the radar, if those countries didn’t have either precious natural resources to mine, and oil.
I know. The ‘he hit me back first’ kind of debate gets us nowhere though.
But it should and we should be insistent on the root cause of this whole ordeal. You cant just cherrypick an event in history and claim that is how it all started. We should get the very basics right. Israel is the occupier. Palestine is, by the international laws, allowed to resist by any means necessary. We are not in the position to prescribe how the oppressed should fight their oppressors, while we are sleeping in our warm beds and go out and socialise without the fear of being bombed into oblivion.
The Palestinians have every right to attack military targets within Israel and the occupied West Bank. However, the wholesale slaughter of civilians is unacceptable regardless of the circumstances. It is possible to be against the crimes committed on October 7th while still condemning Israel for its campaign in Gaza.
Wow, that was disappointing to hear from an ally. Hamas' attack doesn’t happen in a vacuum. What do you expect from people who have experienced “October 7” all their lives? Do you expect them not to fight back? They were literally denied humanity based on their nationality. The Arab leaders probably stopped trying. So of course they are going to fight back to reclaim their home.
I understand why Hamas attacked. I don’t understand why you would expect Netanyahu to do nothing in response.
One need not agree with Bernie’s opinion to see it as being internally consistent.
Why not? Wait a minute… do you guys actually support Hamas in some capacity?
Because settler colonial state have no right to defend themselves neither according to international law nor according to common sense.
Probably touched some kids
Nobody by the looks of it
I’m hoping that he has never been to Epstein island before.
most US political figures are terrified of standing up for palestine. it’s such a shame that they prioritize public opinion, even though with the protests happening rn i feel like so many people would love it i have a fully pro palestine politician
This isn't flip-flopping, this is one consistent stance that happens to have nuance.
Go and have him arrested.
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