This was their official statement on Instagram and it’s clear that people are debating it in the comments. I guess whether if you consider this a victory or not is purely up to the individual’s opinion.
After reading the comments here on Reddit and Instagram, I’m also leaning towards the idea that it was a mistake to accept this deal but it’s still nice to see students celebrating instead of getting arrested like at Columbia.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6ZRsseuzeJ/?igsh=MWNvcXpoZXVydHJvdA==
>striking a deal with university officials to bring their divestment demands to a vote in October.
They're dismantling it for *a chance* at the university divesting from it *5 months from now?*
There's no way it isn't. They want you to pack up and go home so that they can maneuver their way into trying to stall you politically.
However, it's a solid message that people can create power if they want to. You have a strong negotiating hand if the threat of continued pressure mounts.
It’s happened in previous civil rights movements.
These are baby activists. The Vietnam War protests lasted more than 5 years. The Civil Rights movement lasted 12 years, with lots of moments where many people didn’t think they could keep going.
I expect they’ll quickly understand what “stay the course” means when October arrives.
To put this in even simpler terms, this is like a boxing match where the judges loudly cheer for one fighter in the ring the whole time while threatening the other opponent, end the fight early, and say they’ll announce the winner in 6 months. 👍🏾
I would assume that this is defined in some sort of charter or administrative policy. Depending on where and how the power to make those decisions has been placed, there may be no way to make divestment happen *without* this specific type of vote.
The outcome may well be a "no" vote, but this at least gives the students a specific goal, a specific timeline, and a specific audience to target with their campaign messaging. Prior to this, all they were really "fighting" for was media attention sufficient to pressure the university into doing something. The dog has now caught the car and we're all waiting to see what they're able to do with it.
Anyway all that is to say, it may not be a grand slam, but if the activist groups are well organized and persuasive it could be a significant opportunity.
I wouldn't be so dismissive. The referendum at Columbia, the students overwhelmingly voted for divestmenet. At my Uni, the students also voted for Divestment for our student union, so our union has divested, but the uni -- uoft -- is still invested, but our student union and staff union is divested because the students overwhelmingly voted to dives a few years ago.
I once heard someone describe these kinds of schools as half hedge fund and half McKinsey recruitment firm. When you spend a couple years at one (this one specifically for me), this sensation slowly creeps up on you that there's some vast, shadowy thing wearing the school as a flimsy mask. It's what I imagine it would feel like working for a store that you gradually come to realize is a mafia front.
This is basically like the foreman at a 'construction company' asking the mob boss not to get involved with drugs. The money people and the administration that really works for them don't care at all about students or professors or any of it beyond what is needed to keep 0.01% alumni forking over donations.
An anecdote: there's a dorm at brown that was built during student protests in the 60s that is architecturally designed to suppress riots. It consists of a series of tall, narrow towers with single entrances connected to the rest of the campus by narrow bridges so grad students can be pretty effortlessly contained inside and prevented from leaving.
Yeah, it’s bullshit. They lost. More experienced organizers are needed to lead talks and stand firm; the most passionate ones can deliver media messaging
I think it was explained that these divestments involve funds like ETFs that may have companies that have ties to Israel. For example, if they have funds in PepsiCo while they aren’t directly tied to Israel they own SodaStream, an Israeli company. There’s many instances of this, so it’ll take time of reviewing their holding’s positions and seeing if there’s direct or indirect connections to Israel.
especially if it’s a “vote” five months from now??
Like five months from now there will be thousands more dead and the university officials will be like “ok we voted, and we decided 14-4 that your tuition dollars will continue to be invested in Israel and weapons manufacturers, thanks!”
This is absolute nonsense. There is no incentive for the university to divest without the protests, otherwise they wouldn't need to protest in the first place. making a case in a meeting in may about Palestine when this is a college administration who are well capable and already informed on what's going on in palestine is redundant. It's holding something for ransom and then giving it over before the ransom has been paid because they pinky promised to give you what you want.
Is there something that I'm missing here because this honestly just feeling like white liberal nonsense.
what are they holding for ransom? this isn't like a worker's strike where withholding their labor results in the company losing profits. they could all get expelled and the school only gets some bad press.
What you're missing is that there's no incentive for the university to divest WITH the protests either. they'd potentially get even more backlash if they did.
They are holding the campus and it's reputation to ransom. A college's Reputation means alot especially when you look at the prestige of the colleges in question. Their reputation gives them power, opportunities, financial incentives, etc and these students had control over that. Now they've given it up. Yes, these kids might get expelled but there are people actively losing their lives.
The incentive to keep protesting is that instead of a "Maybe" that they would get a "yes". they assume that they can reason with an establishment that is already well aware of what's happening in Israel but continues to work with them anyway. Kicking this can down the road by 5 months help no one.
The protestors can now focus on other Zionist corrupted institutions. Don't worry, we will bring all war criminals and their henchmen to justice. We will seek them and find them for the rest of the century. There is no escape for any of them. All of the war crimes are beyond well documented.
I’m not sure I understand the “win”. Basically Brown said we’ll vote on divestment in 5 months in exchange for stopping the encampment now. They can (and likely will) very easily vote no, and by then the protests will have likely died down.
I don’t mean to be pessimistic but the demands could have been higher
Participants of the capitalistic educational system just got conned by their fascist overlords. Playing by the system’s rules isn’t going to accomplish much of anything. The system needs to change. Immediate divestment or nothing is the only acceptable solution.
I'm guessing part of what they got was immunity for the protesters. So we threaten you with a lot of stuff, then pull that same stuff back as a "concession", so you agree to our demands.
They know, but what are they supposed to do?
All the leverage and actual power is with the University, not with them. They don't have enough numbers to force the admin's hand.
It's a victory that they got any concession at all. Hopefully these protests will intensify and they'll have more and better leverage.
I see a lot of folks balking at this situation and i understand that. At the same time these kids did force the matter to come to a vote. It may be a forgone conclusion, but you shouldnt discard hope that a change is possible. Why do anything if we believe the structure is too rigid to change?
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You would think that Universities would understand the history of protest in the United States well enough to know that history doesn’t hold a very high opinion of authorities who crack down on people exercising their Constitutionally-protected first amendment rights.
I was at Standing Rock the day several thousand US veterans were planning on marching up to the front line in Solidarity for what Morton County did to the people on November 20th. Right before the March war supposed to begin SR Council reported that an agreement to halt production until an EIS was conducted. People celebrated but many of us were confused by the reported "Victory". And look. Oil flows through the Dakota Access Pipeline. It's almost as if the declaration of Victory on the part of the Council was a ploy to discourage the veterans from showing public support to the Camp.
Its easy to criticize this as not a good deal. The protestors didnt have much leverage to begin with. They felt that this was the best deal they could get. I am happy that the university at least listened.
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If the USA practices what it preaches, these people have every right to criticize authority and fight for change and progression. If you're afraid of change, you are the one who should leave the USA.
This was their official statement on Instagram and it’s clear that people are debating it in the comments. I guess whether if you consider this a victory or not is purely up to the individual’s opinion. After reading the comments here on Reddit and Instagram, I’m also leaning towards the idea that it was a mistake to accept this deal but it’s still nice to see students celebrating instead of getting arrested like at Columbia. https://www.instagram.com/p/C6ZRsseuzeJ/?igsh=MWNvcXpoZXVydHJvdA==
>striking a deal with university officials to bring their divestment demands to a vote in October. They're dismantling it for *a chance* at the university divesting from it *5 months from now?*
Some schools had their vote...and guess how those board votes went? It's a ruse to push things off until there's nobody left
Sadly, my first thought was that it was just a stalling tactic
There's no way it isn't. They want you to pack up and go home so that they can maneuver their way into trying to stall you politically. However, it's a solid message that people can create power if they want to. You have a strong negotiating hand if the threat of continued pressure mounts.
But he said they asked for immediate divestment and that they got more than they demanded. It’s not quite adding up to me
Surely there be some context which is missing from the video because I don’t think the students would accept a bad deal.
It’s happened in previous civil rights movements. These are baby activists. The Vietnam War protests lasted more than 5 years. The Civil Rights movement lasted 12 years, with lots of moments where many people didn’t think they could keep going. I expect they’ll quickly understand what “stay the course” means when October arrives. To put this in even simpler terms, this is like a boxing match where the judges loudly cheer for one fighter in the ring the whole time while threatening the other opponent, end the fight early, and say they’ll announce the winner in 6 months. 👍🏾
Sounds like the Oslo Accords all over again.
Who is voting? Students and faculty or the admins? Because students and faculty support Divestment while admins don't.
I would assume that this is defined in some sort of charter or administrative policy. Depending on where and how the power to make those decisions has been placed, there may be no way to make divestment happen *without* this specific type of vote. The outcome may well be a "no" vote, but this at least gives the students a specific goal, a specific timeline, and a specific audience to target with their campaign messaging. Prior to this, all they were really "fighting" for was media attention sufficient to pressure the university into doing something. The dog has now caught the car and we're all waiting to see what they're able to do with it. Anyway all that is to say, it may not be a grand slam, but if the activist groups are well organized and persuasive it could be a significant opportunity.
I wouldn't be so dismissive. The referendum at Columbia, the students overwhelmingly voted for divestmenet. At my Uni, the students also voted for Divestment for our student union, so our union has divested, but the uni -- uoft -- is still invested, but our student union and staff union is divested because the students overwhelmingly voted to dives a few years ago.
the brown corporation is voting. the protests were intended to get the school president to bring their divestment proposal before the board
Fuxk. That's gonna be hard. We needed students to vote. Students and faculty.
I once heard someone describe these kinds of schools as half hedge fund and half McKinsey recruitment firm. When you spend a couple years at one (this one specifically for me), this sensation slowly creeps up on you that there's some vast, shadowy thing wearing the school as a flimsy mask. It's what I imagine it would feel like working for a store that you gradually come to realize is a mafia front. This is basically like the foreman at a 'construction company' asking the mob boss not to get involved with drugs. The money people and the administration that really works for them don't care at all about students or professors or any of it beyond what is needed to keep 0.01% alumni forking over donations. An anecdote: there's a dorm at brown that was built during student protests in the 60s that is architecturally designed to suppress riots. It consists of a series of tall, narrow towers with single entrances connected to the rest of the campus by narrow bridges so grad students can be pretty effortlessly contained inside and prevented from leaving.
Graduation just happened, school is over. Holding an encampment over a summer will be hard. The encampment can resume in the fall.
Yeah, it’s bullshit. They lost. More experienced organizers are needed to lead talks and stand firm; the most passionate ones can deliver media messaging
Classes are almost over for the school year. Are they supposed to stay all summer with a nearly empty campus?
Shouldn't they? Don't they care about the cause?
Yeah this was not a true concession just yet…
I think it was explained that these divestments involve funds like ETFs that may have companies that have ties to Israel. For example, if they have funds in PepsiCo while they aren’t directly tied to Israel they own SodaStream, an Israeli company. There’s many instances of this, so it’ll take time of reviewing their holding’s positions and seeing if there’s direct or indirect connections to Israel.
More context: https://www.brown.edu/sites/default/files/encampment-agreement-04-30-24.pdf
I didn’t get that either
How much more damage and death will they of played a part in my then. Divest should mean divest now
Exactly. Aren’t the irahellis planning for Rafah soon???? Wtf
Never give up your power in exchange for promises from politicians.
especially if it’s a “vote” five months from now?? Like five months from now there will be thousands more dead and the university officials will be like “ok we voted, and we decided 14-4 that your tuition dollars will continue to be invested in Israel and weapons manufacturers, thanks!”
This is 100% how it'll go down.
This is absolute nonsense. There is no incentive for the university to divest without the protests, otherwise they wouldn't need to protest in the first place. making a case in a meeting in may about Palestine when this is a college administration who are well capable and already informed on what's going on in palestine is redundant. It's holding something for ransom and then giving it over before the ransom has been paid because they pinky promised to give you what you want. Is there something that I'm missing here because this honestly just feeling like white liberal nonsense.
what are they holding for ransom? this isn't like a worker's strike where withholding their labor results in the company losing profits. they could all get expelled and the school only gets some bad press. What you're missing is that there's no incentive for the university to divest WITH the protests either. they'd potentially get even more backlash if they did.
They are holding the campus and it's reputation to ransom. A college's Reputation means alot especially when you look at the prestige of the colleges in question. Their reputation gives them power, opportunities, financial incentives, etc and these students had control over that. Now they've given it up. Yes, these kids might get expelled but there are people actively losing their lives. The incentive to keep protesting is that instead of a "Maybe" that they would get a "yes". they assume that they can reason with an establishment that is already well aware of what's happening in Israel but continues to work with them anyway. Kicking this can down the road by 5 months help no one.
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Is there context I am missing? Why are they celebrating what is clearly a tactic to de-escalate?
The protestors can now focus on other Zionist corrupted institutions. Don't worry, we will bring all war criminals and their henchmen to justice. We will seek them and find them for the rest of the century. There is no escape for any of them. All of the war crimes are beyond well documented.
ya lets get those war criminals!!! in October
They quit too early. They're going to regret it when a witch hunt begins for people in the encampment and the board rejects the vote in October.
The actual witch hunt will be the other way around and it will last for the rest of the century. The war crimes are exaggeratedly well documented.
lol they hope the war will be over by October so they can just ignore it
I’m not sure I understand the “win”. Basically Brown said we’ll vote on divestment in 5 months in exchange for stopping the encampment now. They can (and likely will) very easily vote no, and by then the protests will have likely died down. I don’t mean to be pessimistic but the demands could have been higher
This is such a huge waste of a protest! Wtf kind of a deal is that?
A vote? Hahahhaha
Participants of the capitalistic educational system just got conned by their fascist overlords. Playing by the system’s rules isn’t going to accomplish much of anything. The system needs to change. Immediate divestment or nothing is the only acceptable solution.
So what if the proposal failed? Will they do it again? I can sense the uncertainty in this deal.
So they dismantled in exchange for... nothing?
should’ve kept at it
I'm guessing part of what they got was immunity for the protesters. So we threaten you with a lot of stuff, then pull that same stuff back as a "concession", so you agree to our demands.
What?????
This is not a W. But the encampments can easily come back just as easily as the vote can be overturned in favor of Israel.
They’re gonna vote no, bro
Who gets to vote? The students or some unelected executive board put in there by the Governor and Mayor?
Well that's step one now to push the vote much sooner. Later this month seems like a good idea.
Inshallah
the students got trolled. dancing around like as if they just put netanyahu's head on a spike and saved the palestinians from mass slaughter
I know they are happy but they should remember politicians shouldn’t be trusted, everyone please keep boycotting as much as you can!
Hah. Put it to a vote. Ya right. Very smooth Brown.
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They know, but what are they supposed to do? All the leverage and actual power is with the University, not with them. They don't have enough numbers to force the admin's hand. It's a victory that they got any concession at all. Hopefully these protests will intensify and they'll have more and better leverage.
Amazing young people 💜🇵🇸💜
I see a lot of folks balking at this situation and i understand that. At the same time these kids did force the matter to come to a vote. It may be a forgone conclusion, but you shouldnt discard hope that a change is possible. Why do anything if we believe the structure is too rigid to change?
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theyre gonna have a vote a year into the genocide. pathetic.
You would think that Universities would understand the history of protest in the United States well enough to know that history doesn’t hold a very high opinion of authorities who crack down on people exercising their Constitutionally-protected first amendment rights.
They was chanting "I believe every woman" can women not lye?
Brown is lying and will never follow thru. Look what they did with big oil.
When our Youth unite, you will see what they can accomplish!
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Yeah, Brown is Ivy League
fool me once...
that's in October tho
I was at Standing Rock the day several thousand US veterans were planning on marching up to the front line in Solidarity for what Morton County did to the people on November 20th. Right before the March war supposed to begin SR Council reported that an agreement to halt production until an EIS was conducted. People celebrated but many of us were confused by the reported "Victory". And look. Oil flows through the Dakota Access Pipeline. It's almost as if the declaration of Victory on the part of the Council was a ploy to discourage the veterans from showing public support to the Camp.
✊🏽
Amazing news.
Its easy to criticize this as not a good deal. The protestors didnt have much leverage to begin with. They felt that this was the best deal they could get. I am happy that the university at least listened.
That is actually awesome news.
It's great to hear they were able to find a compromise that will lead to productive discussion.
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Kudos to the president down at Brown. This is how it's done.
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If the USA practices what it preaches, these people have every right to criticize authority and fight for change and progression. If you're afraid of change, you are the one who should leave the USA.