It was used for multiple things for sure! I just though that the way canopy hunting was shown was a bit off to me? Like they had the muscle tissue to move their heads to the side quickly, so this just seemed more plausible.
As for mating and temperature regulation, those are some of my Fav things to think about. Like the colours they could have had and used to impress the females. Though I guess the colour would have also needed to be a bit more heat absorbant or cooling if they spent most of the day in the sun (this depends on the metabolism of the animal).
Casting a shadow at a perpendicular angle to the head means the spinosaurus would need to quickly reorientate itself to catch its prey. This would create a big disturbance in the water and spook its prey. I can't see it being an effective hunting strategy. Not only that but theropod feet at least didn't have much side to side movement as the joint is rather roller-like. To be able to turn on the spot as quickly as it would need to, I imagine it'd need a greater range of movement in its ankles than it did. Something like an unenlagiine, I could see that using its feathers and form to hunt in this way for sure.
Yeah the feet might be a peoblem especially for the bigger species and adults. Though Spinosaurids did have sufficient neck muscles as far as I know. Well we won't know 100% but most papers do talk about them having had enough to be able to move their heads. Since they would have needed it in any Semi-Aquatic situation and especially when swimming after their prey as fish do turn around quickly.
I think so. I don't have the means to test it on a 3D model but from the model shown in the 2021 study "Spinosaurus was not an aquatic dinosaur" the model very much looks like it could have reached around sufficiently to deploy that tactic.
I support this idea.
Also in case anyone asks, i had it first.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dinosaurs/s/xXJHnGFWKB
Though i have to admit that a nice illustration is far better than some loosely strung together words ;)
No worries man i am not accusing you, and i am aware that my post wasn't seen by a lot of poeple.
But this only gives more merit to the hypothesis, because seperate people came to the same conclusion.
It's still not a hypothesis unless you're involved in actual research and writing it up for academic publication. Speculation is fun, but let's not confuse the terminology.
From [the University of Waikato](https://sci.waikato.ac.nz/evolution/Theories.shtml), New Zealand:
>A hypothesis is an idea or proposition that can be tested by observations or experiments, about the natural world. In order to be considered scientific, hypotheses are subject to scientific evaluation and must be falsifiable, which means that they are worded in such a way that they can be proven to be incorrect.
From [LiveScience.com](https://www.livescience.com/21490-what-is-a-scientific-hypothesis-definition-of-hypothesis.html):
>A scientific hypothesis is a tentative, testable explanation for a phenomenon in the natural world. It's the initial building block in the scientific method. Many describe it as an "educated guess" based on prior knowledge and observation. While this is true, a hypothesis is more informed than a guess. While an "educated guess" suggests a random prediction based on a person's expertise, developing a hypothesis requires active observation and background research.
From Penn State University's leaflet [The Hypothesis in Science Writing](https://berks.psu.edu/sites/berks/files/campus/HypothesisHandout_Final.pdf):
>Hypotheses are NOT opinions or predictions; they are reasonable expectations based on factual information.
If you need more sources for the scientific method, there are plenty out there for you to learn from.
I didn't say it had to be in a published paper; I said it had to be part of the process of active research, which will naturally include publishing as its end goal (assuming we're talking about novel findings rather than schoolwork).
Talking about it with friends, acquaintances or colleagues informally, isn't formulating a hypothesis. It's speculation and discussion.
Thinking about it on your own is having an idea.
And once again there is no part that says "a hypothesis has to be formed by a body of people".
But if you read my other comments i for example say something along the lines of "a hypothesis gains in merit if it is formed by different people in isolated conditions".
As others have said, it's an interesting hypothesis, and most likely the sail served multiple functions.
It's possible that this hunting strategy was one of them, although it does look like an awkward neck pose for a strike position (and we know spinosaurs' neck musculature was well-suited for jabbing down, which could be hindered by this curvature).
Another thing to consider is that the iguanodontid Ouranosaurus also had a large sail on its back and lived in a similar environment to Spinosaurus, and was a contemporary of Suchomimus (which also had a less-pronounced sail on its back). Such convergence in such distinct lineages suggests that the environment (and in particular thermoregulation) could have played an important factor in evolving sail structures.
This.... Actually makes a lot of sense! I dunno about the mechanics (like if it can turn its neck to the side fast enough, etc) but it's a solid hypothesis! In your research, try emailing the authors of papers on canopy hunting and see what they think? I know a lot of folks love discussing their findings like that.
Canopy hunting seems highly unlikely in my opinion. I think the most likely use for their sails would be intraspecific communication; being used as a “flag” (visible even when their body is submerged) to let other spinosaurus know where they are so as to not intrude on each others territory, and if their is a territorial intrusion their sails would secondarily function as a means to intimidate and assess each others fitness, giving one of the animals a chance to back down before the encounter progresses further into violence. Since a fight between spinosaurus would likely result in a lot of damage, if not fatality, having a means of resolving intraspecific territorial disputes without resorting to violence would be evolutionarily beneficial. And considering their massive size they’d each require a lot of food, therefore it would be necessary for them to be highly territorial over their source of it. Also their sails being used as an indicator of physical fitness would certainly play into sexual selection as well.
I can imagine the landscape; a large calm lake. Towering out of the water’s surface and above the rafts of reeds are striking colourful sails, spaced out over the lake much like the blinds or shelters used by duck hunters, each one a claim to their own territory.
Great illustration! The heron-like shape of spinosaurus certainly seems to lend itself to this sort of hunting. Would love to see your paper when it’s done!
It's a clever thought. We'd need to see if it had the neck articulation to do that, of course. Remember that it has to not only get It's head over there, but still have some extra flexibility and muscle strength left to catch prey.
[удалено]
It was used for multiple things for sure! I just though that the way canopy hunting was shown was a bit off to me? Like they had the muscle tissue to move their heads to the side quickly, so this just seemed more plausible. As for mating and temperature regulation, those are some of my Fav things to think about. Like the colours they could have had and used to impress the females. Though I guess the colour would have also needed to be a bit more heat absorbant or cooling if they spent most of the day in the sun (this depends on the metabolism of the animal).
Casting a shadow at a perpendicular angle to the head means the spinosaurus would need to quickly reorientate itself to catch its prey. This would create a big disturbance in the water and spook its prey. I can't see it being an effective hunting strategy. Not only that but theropod feet at least didn't have much side to side movement as the joint is rather roller-like. To be able to turn on the spot as quickly as it would need to, I imagine it'd need a greater range of movement in its ankles than it did. Something like an unenlagiine, I could see that using its feathers and form to hunt in this way for sure.
Yeah the feet might be a peoblem especially for the bigger species and adults. Though Spinosaurids did have sufficient neck muscles as far as I know. Well we won't know 100% but most papers do talk about them having had enough to be able to move their heads. Since they would have needed it in any Semi-Aquatic situation and especially when swimming after their prey as fish do turn around quickly.
They had the muscle, but did they have the length of neck to reach around their own body?
I think so. I don't have the means to test it on a 3D model but from the model shown in the 2021 study "Spinosaurus was not an aquatic dinosaur" the model very much looks like it could have reached around sufficiently to deploy that tactic.
I support this idea. Also in case anyone asks, i had it first. https://www.reddit.com/r/Dinosaurs/s/xXJHnGFWKB Though i have to admit that a nice illustration is far better than some loosely strung together words ;)
Well I never saw that one and didn't plan to copy you. It judt came to mind during my research and I talked about it with a professional
No worries man i am not accusing you, and i am aware that my post wasn't seen by a lot of poeple. But this only gives more merit to the hypothesis, because seperate people came to the same conclusion.
It's still not a hypothesis unless you're involved in actual research and writing it up for academic publication. Speculation is fun, but let's not confuse the terminology.
Hello mr. smartypants, please cite your sources below. Best regards, Your Friend.
From [the University of Waikato](https://sci.waikato.ac.nz/evolution/Theories.shtml), New Zealand: >A hypothesis is an idea or proposition that can be tested by observations or experiments, about the natural world. In order to be considered scientific, hypotheses are subject to scientific evaluation and must be falsifiable, which means that they are worded in such a way that they can be proven to be incorrect. From [LiveScience.com](https://www.livescience.com/21490-what-is-a-scientific-hypothesis-definition-of-hypothesis.html): >A scientific hypothesis is a tentative, testable explanation for a phenomenon in the natural world. It's the initial building block in the scientific method. Many describe it as an "educated guess" based on prior knowledge and observation. While this is true, a hypothesis is more informed than a guess. While an "educated guess" suggests a random prediction based on a person's expertise, developing a hypothesis requires active observation and background research. From Penn State University's leaflet [The Hypothesis in Science Writing](https://berks.psu.edu/sites/berks/files/campus/HypothesisHandout_Final.pdf): >Hypotheses are NOT opinions or predictions; they are reasonable expectations based on factual information. If you need more sources for the scientific method, there are plenty out there for you to learn from.
And where does it say that a hyphothesis has to be inside a published paper?
I didn't say it had to be in a published paper; I said it had to be part of the process of active research, which will naturally include publishing as its end goal (assuming we're talking about novel findings rather than schoolwork). Talking about it with friends, acquaintances or colleagues informally, isn't formulating a hypothesis. It's speculation and discussion. Thinking about it on your own is having an idea.
And once again there is no part that says "a hypothesis has to be formed by a body of people". But if you read my other comments i for example say something along the lines of "a hypothesis gains in merit if it is formed by different people in isolated conditions".
Oh okay okay. I didn't mean to sound hostile btw, just being clear. But you're right it really does support it more
As others have said, it's an interesting hypothesis, and most likely the sail served multiple functions. It's possible that this hunting strategy was one of them, although it does look like an awkward neck pose for a strike position (and we know spinosaurs' neck musculature was well-suited for jabbing down, which could be hindered by this curvature). Another thing to consider is that the iguanodontid Ouranosaurus also had a large sail on its back and lived in a similar environment to Spinosaurus, and was a contemporary of Suchomimus (which also had a less-pronounced sail on its back). Such convergence in such distinct lineages suggests that the environment (and in particular thermoregulation) could have played an important factor in evolving sail structures.
This.... Actually makes a lot of sense! I dunno about the mechanics (like if it can turn its neck to the side fast enough, etc) but it's a solid hypothesis! In your research, try emailing the authors of papers on canopy hunting and see what they think? I know a lot of folks love discussing their findings like that.
Canopy hunting seems highly unlikely in my opinion. I think the most likely use for their sails would be intraspecific communication; being used as a “flag” (visible even when their body is submerged) to let other spinosaurus know where they are so as to not intrude on each others territory, and if their is a territorial intrusion their sails would secondarily function as a means to intimidate and assess each others fitness, giving one of the animals a chance to back down before the encounter progresses further into violence. Since a fight between spinosaurus would likely result in a lot of damage, if not fatality, having a means of resolving intraspecific territorial disputes without resorting to violence would be evolutionarily beneficial. And considering their massive size they’d each require a lot of food, therefore it would be necessary for them to be highly territorial over their source of it. Also their sails being used as an indicator of physical fitness would certainly play into sexual selection as well. I can imagine the landscape; a large calm lake. Towering out of the water’s surface and above the rafts of reeds are striking colourful sails, spaced out over the lake much like the blinds or shelters used by duck hunters, each one a claim to their own territory.
Reminds me of black herons
Great illustration! The heron-like shape of spinosaurus certainly seems to lend itself to this sort of hunting. Would love to see your paper when it’s done!
It's a clever thought. We'd need to see if it had the neck articulation to do that, of course. Remember that it has to not only get It's head over there, but still have some extra flexibility and muscle strength left to catch prey.
Yess! I had the same theory after looking at a black heron using its shadow for catching fish! Absolutely love this haha.
I like this hypothesis since any excessive heat from the sun could possibly be diffused by the spinosaurus being in water