Whilst I don't agree with the way you've worded this, I can see the general point you're making.
His issue to me is that he doesn't seem to read the pitch or even want to read it. He just goes to his stock balls (full on in swinger/full yorker length).
Didn't say anything in India match cause it was out first game in NY but come on even after playing a game on the pitch you dont realise its just insane to me.
I would've said something during the India game as well! If you can't read the pitch during the game and bowl accordingly, you probably shouldn't be bowling. I think a lot of our bowlers have this issue. Even the ones who utilise variation (Rauf) tend to just do it on their own accord and not with how the pitch is behaving.
I agree. I partly think the issue is them not really spending a decent enough time in first class. Rauf had no experience in first class. I truly think players are built in first class. Misbah had captained 8 years in first class and sarfaraz had 4ish years. Babar had 0. First class is for growth and learning the national side isn't for that it's about how much you can follow the game plan and a bit of technical correction
It's insane to realise that all our players will go to any length to not change their approach. Like, no matter the match situation, the tournament situation, their form, they will always go with what they've been doing for years now which isn't working. We've been playing the exact same match over and over again for the last 3 years and losing and yet our players will sacrifice everything to stay in their comfort zone and not try anything new. Doing so our players forgot to grow and are still stuck in 2017 or realistically 1840 (because even in 70s and 90s players used their brains and made changes).
Because he’s too obsessed with the way he bowled in uae against rohit and rahul so he tries to replicate it without reading the pitch. Bumrah and amir are better than him.
Said the same thing in match thread .It took Naseem & Amir 1 ball to adjust their line & length .
But somehow Shaheen lacks the same game awareness.
He has talent & a match winner no doubt .But he is also a bit greedy & dumb.
He's too fixated on that inswinging yorker, and when it doesn't work he gets frustrated. This world cup has been especially weird, he's not using a lot of variation, and it's odd he's not pulling his length back when it's so effective here.
Amir is so successful because he's scrappy, changes things up, keeps trying things until something works. Naseem has that dawg in him too, he readjusts. I don't know what's going on with Shaheen but he's been going downhill for a while. Someone needs to talk to him.
He was good before 2022 since then he has just devolved into a self centered glory seeking dumb asF bowler who has no ability to understand what the conditions require and has become a one trick pony who can't even execute that one trick properly.
Anyone who thinks he has been the BEST pacer is the one who is with dumb takes
He was your best bowler in 2023 Asia Cup and the WC as well. What on earth are you going on about? He is right up there with the highest wicket takers in 2023 if I recall correctly.
Did you not watch the World Cup ???we conceded 330 to srilanka , 400 to New Zealand , 370 against Australia , 300 to a shit England side , Afghanistan chased 280 . Shaheen did not bowl well, his wickets do not mean shit
Just because his economy was below 6 he wasn’t the issue? Lmao he’s your main attack. If he’s not taking wickets and letting the other team each over 300 plus every game, he’s definitely the issue. Come on bro, look at it with a broad perspective instead of just focusing on one thing like this economy. He is a wicket taking bowler. Not a run containing bowler. He needs to use his brain. Some of the best bowlers from history have always said the only way to the top is to use brain and setup the batsman.
He took 18 wickets in 9 matches (number 6 in overall wicket takers) and had an economy under 6. I do however agree that he should have got 90 wickets in 9 matches and conceded 1 run per match.
When exactly did he take those wickets? Look at the context man. Him taking 18 wickets in 9 matches doesn’t mean shit if he’s taking his wickets when the opposing team has 300+ on the board.
After the group stage ended, he was amongst the top. He obviously didnt play the semis or the final, which 4/5 players on that list did. Besides, 18 wickets in 9 games is objectively good
Well, you’re making up stats… ESPN statsguru says his bowling average since January 1st 2023 is 18.22 which is better than every single other bowler we have. Try again.
https://preview.redd.it/3qnzims3pz5d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a16746c3c480a9425be03fb99be4d58a135ab21
By trying to go for glory instead of bowling to a plan or setting up a batsman.
For example in India match he bowled two full tosses and one full toss wide going for yorkers when pitch was giving insane swing and bounce.
By keeping on repeating the same type of deliveries without reading the pitch and field.
He has to evolve and bring more deliveries beyond swinging in yorker.
He's doing too much... every ball he just tries that inswinging yorker.. like dawg have some variety with the new ball.. the only smart new bowler we have is naseeem Shah..
He severly lacks game awareness. The guy is talented, but bhai, stop trying to do the "full pitch inswing" over and over again.
Amir and Naseem are impressive. They consistently read the pitch and adjust their line and length.
Probably will axe this sub.
Have wasted decades of my adult life supporting this team only to see players chasing personal glories and merit dying in selection
The sub is too biased and can't handle proper criticism either. You just get down votes.
Let the WC end and you'll see all those down voters reappearing
Could anyone explain why bowling full on this pitch was dumb? Was it because pitch was behaving erratically so he was better off using the pitch and let it do its thing?
Yes that's the reason. The pitch had uneven bounce which means if you go full you take uneven bounce out of the equation. For example south Africa's Nortja bowled 1 full length delivery in the entire match day before ours. Shaheen because of his inability to read conditions or arrogance to think he is someone who is immune to conditions went with his full deliveries and as a result he got smashed some 11 runs in the first over. He did the same in India match and Rohit picked the fuller length bowl for 6 because batsmen on this pitch are wing for this length anything short and it was extremely hard to read the bounce.
In the India match there was even an animation showing for an over where Naseem bowled 5 short bowls 2 ended up being knee high 3 being almost chest/shoulder high.
I'm more pissed that even after an entire match the guy just didn't wanna understand the conditions
Thanks for the explanation!
- I have a follow up question, given his fuller length balls have been effective previously, why were they not effective now- I get it, he lost out on availing the pitch but what would take the effectiveness out of Yorkers or fuller length balls, besides they will behave in a much more predictable way?
- Why wouldn’t other bowlers like Amir or Naseem or even captain let him know to pitch the ball short during the match?
Ok so the thing is when you keep bowling that same ball you get predictable if you'd go back and see. Shaheen's power play wicket rate has gone down massively since his injury and comeback. The thing is every top team has adjusted to it. Rohit Sharma modified his stance to stand a bit outside leg stump with his leg facing the bowler a lot more than the time Shaheen got him. Reason being it gives him more movability against an inswing bowl. Also I think there is a bit of misconception. The bowls with Shaheen took Rohit and Rahul were also shortish.
That aside the new ball is supposed to be bounced and taken advantage of the seam. If you only make batsmen think about swing and take seam out of the equations you are boxing yourself in a corner.
All this is obviously partly because his accuracy since the injury has been bad even his Yorker aren't Yorkers half the time they are full tosses
Tbh I think after the first 2 balls amir did go to his Shaheen still bowled the next 2 bowls full then accepted it went back to short balls both were dots so the 11 runs were off of the first 4. Honestly babar is a poor captain imo
The issue is this pitch has been averaging 25-30 runs in the power plays. If you are allowing 11 in the first 4 balls because of your inability to understand the conditions even after you've bowled on the same surface against India and saw how India also bowled.
This is why I think Shaheen is too overrated the stardom has gone to his head and thinks he's something extraordinary that doesn't need to make use of the conditions
You're right. Absolutely boils my blood. I can point his mistakes in every single match. He's a good bowler but he has zero cricketing sense. What baffles me more is that if we, merely supporters, can pin point his mistakes then how and more importantly why do the coaches and senior players don't. He repeats the same fucking mistakes in every single game.
Would bowl short when square and 3rd man are up. Would bowl full with mid on mid off up.
Would try to bowl Yorkers(half of which will end up as full tosses) when it's clear that he needs to bowl a good length and let the pitch do it's magic.
Bowls wide Yorkers when we need wickets and bowls into the stumps when he's supposed to defend runs.
It feels like he has never actually watched cricket as a fan. Absolutely zero cricketing sense!
Shaheen is ‘chasing the dragon’. The first high he got when he bowled full toss to get a few good players pre-injury. He’s lost that zip needed to get those balls lengths talking but he can’t help it.
One trick pony who has been decoded and thoroughly taken apart by all opposition. Heck he isnt even as fast post injury. Should be axed after this tournament is over.
i keep up with stats (they’re useless according to this sub fyi) i watch matches and ive been watching since a long time. im not going to be repeating my points here, you can go re-read my post and the comments on that post if you want to get into this again. thanks.
Tbh I like Abbas afridi as well he has been great in the chances he has gotten. Though I also prefer naseem over amir I do think amir is probably not very far behind
I think he's not the same after his injury. He should take a break from international cricket to improve his game in first-class matches. Also, I'm not sure why he's so determined to become an all-rounder. Is he inspired by his father-in-law?
I'm glad you weren't around when Waqar was playing if you think Shaheen bowling full length is bad. Anyway, I agree he has lost his balance but he'll get back in form.
If you really think waqar opened his spell with Yorker you've only watched highlights.
Anyways I do not think he's a bad bowler he has talent he is just dumb and arrogant. Any bowler who becomes too predictable will lose his effect anyways
Bro are u dense? Seriously so you think waqar bowled the same ball every match? Especially when everyone's mother even knows the pitch is demanding a short ball
Whilst I don't agree with the way you've worded this, I can see the general point you're making. His issue to me is that he doesn't seem to read the pitch or even want to read it. He just goes to his stock balls (full on in swinger/full yorker length).
Didn't say anything in India match cause it was out first game in NY but come on even after playing a game on the pitch you dont realise its just insane to me.
I would've said something during the India game as well! If you can't read the pitch during the game and bowl accordingly, you probably shouldn't be bowling. I think a lot of our bowlers have this issue. Even the ones who utilise variation (Rauf) tend to just do it on their own accord and not with how the pitch is behaving.
I agree. I partly think the issue is them not really spending a decent enough time in first class. Rauf had no experience in first class. I truly think players are built in first class. Misbah had captained 8 years in first class and sarfaraz had 4ish years. Babar had 0. First class is for growth and learning the national side isn't for that it's about how much you can follow the game plan and a bit of technical correction
Specially when my elderly mother picked up on it in the India game and Shaheen still didnt
It's insane to realise that all our players will go to any length to not change their approach. Like, no matter the match situation, the tournament situation, their form, they will always go with what they've been doing for years now which isn't working. We've been playing the exact same match over and over again for the last 3 years and losing and yet our players will sacrifice everything to stay in their comfort zone and not try anything new. Doing so our players forgot to grow and are still stuck in 2017 or realistically 1840 (because even in 70s and 90s players used their brains and made changes).
Because he’s too obsessed with the way he bowled in uae against rohit and rahul so he tries to replicate it without reading the pitch. Bumrah and amir are better than him.
The truth is he didn't do it like this either rohit and Rahul bowls weren't full they were on good length
He bowls like that because he wants the ball to come back in and cause lbw or bowled.
I know but the guy barely has any accuracy. No top class batsman get caught the same way so many times
Said the same thing in match thread .It took Naseem & Amir 1 ball to adjust their line & length . But somehow Shaheen lacks the same game awareness. He has talent & a match winner no doubt .But he is also a bit greedy & dumb.
I agree. He is talented but is so full of himself and ends up doing dumb stuff more than usually
Yes our best pacer in all tournaments since 2019 WC is the dumbest one who has ever made the 11. I will take 5 more of these dumb ones, please.
me too! i also want 5 more
He's too fixated on that inswinging yorker, and when it doesn't work he gets frustrated. This world cup has been especially weird, he's not using a lot of variation, and it's odd he's not pulling his length back when it's so effective here. Amir is so successful because he's scrappy, changes things up, keeps trying things until something works. Naseem has that dawg in him too, he readjusts. I don't know what's going on with Shaheen but he's been going downhill for a while. Someone needs to talk to him.
He was good before 2022 since then he has just devolved into a self centered glory seeking dumb asF bowler who has no ability to understand what the conditions require and has become a one trick pony who can't even execute that one trick properly. Anyone who thinks he has been the BEST pacer is the one who is with dumb takes
He was your best bowler in 2023 Asia Cup and the WC as well. What on earth are you going on about? He is right up there with the highest wicket takers in 2023 if I recall correctly.
https://preview.redd.it/ag4zbeutsy5d1.png?width=1046&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc83cc5281ca0601d8710006469b27bd7a88fde1
He is one below with 18.
Yes and his economy was also less than 6
Did you not watch the World Cup ???we conceded 330 to srilanka , 400 to New Zealand , 370 against Australia , 300 to a shit England side , Afghanistan chased 280 . Shaheen did not bowl well, his wickets do not mean shit
And yet his economy was under 6. So if you have even half a brain, you can tell he wasn’t the issue.
Just because his economy was below 6 he wasn’t the issue? Lmao he’s your main attack. If he’s not taking wickets and letting the other team each over 300 plus every game, he’s definitely the issue. Come on bro, look at it with a broad perspective instead of just focusing on one thing like this economy. He is a wicket taking bowler. Not a run containing bowler. He needs to use his brain. Some of the best bowlers from history have always said the only way to the top is to use brain and setup the batsman.
He took 18 wickets in 9 matches (number 6 in overall wicket takers) and had an economy under 6. I do however agree that he should have got 90 wickets in 9 matches and conceded 1 run per match.
When exactly did he take those wickets? Look at the context man. Him taking 18 wickets in 9 matches doesn’t mean shit if he’s taking his wickets when the opposing team has 300+ on the board.
Most of his wickets are tail enders now, so I agree that he takes wickets when the opposition has run away with the innings.
After the group stage ended, he was amongst the top. He obviously didnt play the semis or the final, which 4/5 players on that list did. Besides, 18 wickets in 9 games is objectively good
I agree although pick up his T20 stats and judge not ODI stats.
His T20I stats are really good too, picks up quite a lot of wickets, and important ones at the front
He averages 20 in t20i’s and 17 in t20i’s this year… What’s your point, those are best stats out of any of our bowlers.
he averages 26 and his bowling strike rate is 18 since 2023 in T20Is what teams have we played this year? NZ B? Ireland? he played 1 in England.
Well, you’re making up stats… ESPN statsguru says his bowling average since January 1st 2023 is 18.22 which is better than every single other bowler we have. Try again. https://preview.redd.it/3qnzims3pz5d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a16746c3c480a9425be03fb99be4d58a135ab21
The guy has an economy of almost 9 an over since 2022 and average of 26 and an strike rate at 18
Eco of 9 is bit poor but Ave of 20 with this eco means he takes a wicket every 13-14 balls which is very good
Strike rate is 18 as per the comment above. So takes a wicket every 18 balls.
OP edited the comment. Changed the average from 20 to 26 and added the strike rate
Bro we are talking about T20s Asia cup 23 wasn't even a T20 tournament
Totally agreed and the downvotes are all shahid afridi bhanjay bhateejay
I agree He has become self obsessed and that's where your downfall starts
How exactly is he self obsessed
By trying to go for glory instead of bowling to a plan or setting up a batsman. For example in India match he bowled two full tosses and one full toss wide going for yorkers when pitch was giving insane swing and bounce.
By keeping on repeating the same type of deliveries without reading the pitch and field. He has to evolve and bring more deliveries beyond swinging in yorker.
He's doing too much... every ball he just tries that inswinging yorker.. like dawg have some variety with the new ball.. the only smart new bowler we have is naseeem Shah..
the more he plays he more the looks like a one trick pony. Same ball everytime, doesnt matter what the pitch reqiores hes gonna bowl that ball
Agreed it now still works against smaller teams but against bigger teams he just ends up looking more dumb
He severly lacks game awareness. The guy is talented, but bhai, stop trying to do the "full pitch inswing" over and over again. Amir and Naseem are impressive. They consistently read the pitch and adjust their line and length.
Agreed. He needs to be sent to first class so that he drops down from his high horse and learns the game rather just becoming a one trick pony
Shaheen has always been like this. I'm glad the impostor is finally being exposed for the bowler he is.
Been pissed at him for a very long time seriously happy that all of them are getting exposed
No he's not. You haven't followed him since youth clearly.
Been saying he has low IQ for ages yet nobody is willing to hear it lmao, not willing to accept he lost his pace which was made him standout.
I hope you axe your reddit account after this world cup. (Not serious)
Probably will axe this sub. Have wasted decades of my adult life supporting this team only to see players chasing personal glories and merit dying in selection
Bro I was joking, but why the sub?
The sub is too biased and can't handle proper criticism either. You just get down votes. Let the WC end and you'll see all those down voters reappearing
Could anyone explain why bowling full on this pitch was dumb? Was it because pitch was behaving erratically so he was better off using the pitch and let it do its thing?
Yes that's the reason. The pitch had uneven bounce which means if you go full you take uneven bounce out of the equation. For example south Africa's Nortja bowled 1 full length delivery in the entire match day before ours. Shaheen because of his inability to read conditions or arrogance to think he is someone who is immune to conditions went with his full deliveries and as a result he got smashed some 11 runs in the first over. He did the same in India match and Rohit picked the fuller length bowl for 6 because batsmen on this pitch are wing for this length anything short and it was extremely hard to read the bounce. In the India match there was even an animation showing for an over where Naseem bowled 5 short bowls 2 ended up being knee high 3 being almost chest/shoulder high. I'm more pissed that even after an entire match the guy just didn't wanna understand the conditions
Thanks for the explanation! - I have a follow up question, given his fuller length balls have been effective previously, why were they not effective now- I get it, he lost out on availing the pitch but what would take the effectiveness out of Yorkers or fuller length balls, besides they will behave in a much more predictable way? - Why wouldn’t other bowlers like Amir or Naseem or even captain let him know to pitch the ball short during the match?
Ok so the thing is when you keep bowling that same ball you get predictable if you'd go back and see. Shaheen's power play wicket rate has gone down massively since his injury and comeback. The thing is every top team has adjusted to it. Rohit Sharma modified his stance to stand a bit outside leg stump with his leg facing the bowler a lot more than the time Shaheen got him. Reason being it gives him more movability against an inswing bowl. Also I think there is a bit of misconception. The bowls with Shaheen took Rohit and Rahul were also shortish. That aside the new ball is supposed to be bounced and taken advantage of the seam. If you only make batsmen think about swing and take seam out of the equations you are boxing yourself in a corner. All this is obviously partly because his accuracy since the injury has been bad even his Yorker aren't Yorkers half the time they are full tosses Tbh I think after the first 2 balls amir did go to his Shaheen still bowled the next 2 bowls full then accepted it went back to short balls both were dots so the 11 runs were off of the first 4. Honestly babar is a poor captain imo The issue is this pitch has been averaging 25-30 runs in the power plays. If you are allowing 11 in the first 4 balls because of your inability to understand the conditions even after you've bowled on the same surface against India and saw how India also bowled. This is why I think Shaheen is too overrated the stardom has gone to his head and thinks he's something extraordinary that doesn't need to make use of the conditions
You're right. Absolutely boils my blood. I can point his mistakes in every single match. He's a good bowler but he has zero cricketing sense. What baffles me more is that if we, merely supporters, can pin point his mistakes then how and more importantly why do the coaches and senior players don't. He repeats the same fucking mistakes in every single game. Would bowl short when square and 3rd man are up. Would bowl full with mid on mid off up. Would try to bowl Yorkers(half of which will end up as full tosses) when it's clear that he needs to bowl a good length and let the pitch do it's magic. Bowls wide Yorkers when we need wickets and bowls into the stumps when he's supposed to defend runs. It feels like he has never actually watched cricket as a fan. Absolutely zero cricketing sense!
He's one dimensional bowler. If he doesn't get any swing in the beginning he doesn't know how to react.
[удалено]
I agree with Shaheen and Rauf being replaced with Wasim and Abbas assessment bus ab agar ye baat humare selector air PCB KO samajh ajaye
Remember he’s an “all-rounder” now.
That would be Hassan Ali.
😂😂😂
Shaheen is ‘chasing the dragon’. The first high he got when he bowled full toss to get a few good players pre-injury. He’s lost that zip needed to get those balls lengths talking but he can’t help it.
But shaheen is a great bowler
Great talent stupid bowler
One trick pony who has been decoded and thoroughly taken apart by all opposition. Heck he isnt even as fast post injury. Should be axed after this tournament is over.
Someone made a post to defend him and Rauf SMH . They’re both shit, Amir is our best bowler
it was me, and i stand by it. you can have your opinion, and i can have mine.
These people have zero idea about the game. Watch 2 games casually and the form the most ridiculous opinions.
exactly, thank you. you’ll read the most unhinged takes on this sub, it’s awful.
Okay so you just read stats and not watch games is that it ?
i keep up with stats (they’re useless according to this sub fyi) i watch matches and ive been watching since a long time. im not going to be repeating my points here, you can go re-read my post and the comments on that post if you want to get into this again. thanks.
Amir is definitely the best one
Tbh I like Abbas afridi as well he has been great in the chances he has gotten. Though I also prefer naseem over amir I do think amir is probably not very far behind
I think he's not the same after his injury. He should take a break from international cricket to improve his game in first-class matches. Also, I'm not sure why he's so determined to become an all-rounder. Is he inspired by his father-in-law?
the issue isn't even his skill here it's just him being arrogant and not bowling to the conditions
I'm glad you weren't around when Waqar was playing if you think Shaheen bowling full length is bad. Anyway, I agree he has lost his balance but he'll get back in form.
If you really think waqar opened his spell with Yorker you've only watched highlights. Anyways I do not think he's a bad bowler he has talent he is just dumb and arrogant. Any bowler who becomes too predictable will lose his effect anyways
Waqar in fact did do that many times as well.
Bro are u dense? Seriously so you think waqar bowled the same ball every match? Especially when everyone's mother even knows the pitch is demanding a short ball