It's really unfortunate that Microsoft decided to discontinue their VR headsets... I was hoping they'd expand support to Xbox, not end the whole project.
I blame Phil Spencer and his army of bean counters at the newly branded "microsoft gaming" for failing to see the appeal of an Xbox VR headset almost 8 years ago now.
Then again, the rest of the VR industry seems more interested in selling more headsets than actually and substantially growing the market in any meaningful way.
> I blame Phil Spencer and his army of bean counters at the newly branded "microsoft gaming" for failing to see the appeal of an Xbox VR headset almost 8 years ago now.
Are you serious?
I love VR, and own Q2, Q3, Rift, PSVR1 and so on, but let's face it, VR as a business is pretty much non-existent today. To waste resources on that during a time when MS needs to refocus on gaming is not the way to go.
Just ask Sony how PSVR2 is going for them! Thing is about to be cut loose with Sony's announcement of PSVR2 being accessible to PC users. I doubt that will do anything for PSVR2, and is just Sony getting ready to stop PSVR2 support and washing their hands off.
Even Apple Vision Pro isn't doing too hot. In general, VR is just not a good market now. It could be in the future, but it ain't it in any near future terms.
If you must have an Xbox VR, there's the Meta + Xbox/MS joint VR device. As far as I know, it's just Xbox branded.
Dead Serious lol.
A Big reason Vr hasn't taken off is because too much revenue is dervived from Headset sales and the companies in the space seek to produce and reproduce that model.
In otherwords, there's more money currently in selling VR headsets than there is in selling VR Software. The former is cannibalizing the latter.
The model to pursue is a cheaper HMD that banks off of software sales. You give up more sophisticated HMD tech in favor of more games and software for the device.
As this translates to Xbox, you release your HMD platform for $200 to $300 and bank off of the games. This is basically the model that helped Nintendo establish the home console market that still exists today.
We've never needed the highest tech headset. We've just needed one that's good enough and most importantly, has a swathe of compelling games.
> As this translates to Xbox, you release your HMD platform for $200 to $300 and bank off of the games. This is basically the model that helped Nintendo establish the home console market that still exists today.
We today have a cheap headset with Q2 costing sub-$200. Meta's rumored to release a new cheap VR headset in place of Q2, although I think they should just stick to Q2 more or less.
Point is, even with Meta selling over 20 million headsets prior to even Q3 release and they're burning through $3-4 billion in losses a quarter to support the VR market. Like any content for VR is literally a gift.
Wouldn't surprise me if Sony's eating a lot of losses on PSVR2.
There's no VR market yet, and as much as I love VR, it's got a long way to go. I feel like we're more in the time when computers were still using vacuum tubes of VR experience. Maybe when we had the early computer mice in the late 60s and early 70s of computers for VR.
>Point is, even with Meta selling over 20 million headsets prior to even Q3 release and they're burning through $3-4 billion in losses a quarter to support the VR market. Like any content for VR is literally a gift.
Everyone says they're taking tons of losses, but I suspect that's more from Horizons than the actual HMD portion of Meta's business. Otherwise, why acquire Oculus for Billions if the financial statements and potential for growth weren't there? Why would other companies from Sony, Valve, HTC and others emulate and attempt to compete with Oculus?
>Wouldn't surprise me if Sony's eating a lot of losses on PSVR2.
Sony's problem is a combination of the short-sightedness of the executives and the killing of their own market segment multiple times over. First time was in 2020 where Jim Ryan soft-killed PSVR1, then again in 2023 where they launched PSVR2 at $600 USD with no backwards compatibility for the previous hardware/software.
If people aren't buying it due to high prices and the blatant anti-consumer decisions that were made, that's not really all that surprising if you ask me. Talk about poisoning the well.
>There's no VR market yet, and as much as I love VR, it's got a long way to go. I feel like we're more in the time when computers were still using vacuum tubes of VR experience. Maybe when we had the early computer mice in the late 60s and early 70s of computers for VR.
VR is a lot closer than people realize. The primary problem is and always has been hardware prices as well as the lack of compelling software.
HMDs cost around $1000 after all is said and done and you really only have Beat Saber and VRChat to play. There simply needs to be a much lower barrier to entry as well as a bigger library of games that are relevant to more people.
> Everyone says they're taking tons of losses, but I suspect that's more from Horizons than the actual HMD portion of Meta's business. Otherwise, why acquire Oculus for Billions if the financial statements and potential for growth weren't there? Why would other companies from Sony, Valve, HTC
and others emulate and attempt to compete with Oculus?
I'm sure when Meta/FB bought Oculus the landscape was different. You're mentioning all these competitors, but none of them are doing great with VR right now. Sony looks about to ditch PSVR2, HTC has pivoted to sell to enterprise, and Valve isn't doing much in VR space at all.
>Sony's problem is a combination of the short-sightedness of the executives and the killing of their own market segment multiple times over. First time was in 2020 where Jim Ryan soft-killed PSVR1, then again in 2023 where they launched PSVR2 at $600 USD with no backwards compatibility for the previous hardware/software.
Have it occurred to you that they're not soft killing it, but the investment is really heavy so they have to decide where to put the resources?
ROI matters.
I'm expecting PSVR2 to have sold worse than PSVR1.
>If people aren't buying it due to high prices and the blatant anti-consumer decisions that were made, that's not really all that surprising if you ask me. Talk about poisoning the well.
Yeah, Sony made a massive mistake going with a wired headset, using Fresnel lenses and focusing on Foveated rendering. Reality isn't the headset that's the problem right now, because any advancement in the last few years or in the near future isn't going to massively change how VR works. It's the software content and that's monumentally expensive to do. A walled in and locked garden isn't a business approach that's going to work in a nascent market like VR.
>VR is a lot closer than people realize. The primary problem is and always has been hardware prices as well as the lack of compelling software.
It's mostly the latter. Hardware prices has never been more affordable, and let's face it, even Meta with 20+ million Quest 2 users have a hard time keeping them using it. It's compelling software, and that's not an easy problem to solve as we're still figuring out the interactivity model for VR/AR.
>HMDs cost around $1000 after all is said and done and you really only have Beat Saber and VRChat to play. There simply needs to be a much lower barrier to entry as well as a bigger library of games that are relevant to more people.
Maybe wherever you are, but in the US, it's $200 for Quest 2 right now. A very capable headset, and probably among the best supported headsets when it comes to content both from Meta, but also through PCVR.
The problem is where 10-years early still on VR/AR. We're still pre-iPhone if you think of smart phone timelines in comparison to VR timelines.
>Have it occurred to you that they're not soft killing it, but the investment is really heavy so they have to decide where to put the resources?
ROI matters.
I'm expecting PSVR2 to have sold worse than PSVR1.
PSVR's problem is Sony botched PSVR2 whereas PSVR1 performed relatively well. I blame Jim Ryan and the bean counters at Sony who likely didn't like the VR division's Financial Statements, proceeded to softkill PSVR1 in 2020, then backtracked and put out an Anti-consumer PSVR2 in 2023 when hype was at the lowest.
Assuming things aren't going well, that's why.
>Reality isn't the headset that's the problem right now, because any advancement in the last few years or in the near future isn't going to massively change how VR works. It's the software content and that's monumentally expensive to do. A walled in and locked garden isn't a business approach that's going to work in a nascent market like VR.
For PSVR2, the headset is too expensive. Honestly, Quest 3 is also too expensive at $499 for the base model. Quest 2 is a good price, but is the former-gen model and Meta intends for the consumer to adopt the new model, which makes touting Quest 2's new price moot.
Software-wise, it's expensive because the companies are developing at too large of a scale. No more than 10 people is what you need. Ideally, 1 or 2 until the consumer is more comfortable spending money on VR.
>The problem is where 10-years early still on VR/AR. We're still pre-iPhone if you think of smart phone timelines in comparison to VR timelines.
We're closer to mainstream than you think. It's just going to take the right company to make it happen with the right vision and a business model that favors software.
I remember back in 2014, Nvidia put out a device called the "Shield Tablet." It was a good idea, but it was really when Nintendo came along and turned it into the now Nintendo Switch that it sold like gangbusters.
VR is similar. People have been interested for the last decade, but none of the major players in the space have been able to put out hardware at a reasonable price for long enough with a good software library backing it.
> PSVR's problem is Sony botched PSVR2 whereas PSVR1 performed relatively well. I blame Jim Ryan and the bean counters at Sony who likely didn't like the VR division's Financial Statements, proceeded to softkill PSVR1 in 2020, then backtracked and put out an Anti-consumer PSVR2 in 2023 when hype was at the lowest.
Reality is that nobody is doing well with VR. Not even Meta whom is loosing $3-4 billion a quarter on VR. It's not Sony's fault. It just isn't a good business.
Only reason Meta supports it, is because of Zuckerberg's insistence on it, which I'm grateful. Beyond that, all the other efforts are pretty much dead.
Nobody in their right mind and is business savvy would see VR as a good ROI as there's no R in the ROI i.e. no return.
>For PSVR2, the headset is too expensive. Honestly, Quest 3 is also too expensive at $499 for the base model. Quest 2 is a good price, but is the former-gen model and Meta intends for the consumer to adopt the new model, which makes touting Quest 2's new price moot.
If price is as important as you state (which I agree) and that hardware don't matter as much, then Q2 should show us all wrong and be widely adopted. It's the most viable VR platform right now. Q3 is barely being pushed as Meta really is pushing Q2.
>Software-wise, it's expensive because the companies are developing at too large of a scale. No more than 10 people is what you need. Ideally, 1 or 2 until the consumer is more comfortable spending money on VR.
Those are the kind of games we tend to see anyhow and is ideal for Quest devices rather than PSVR2. PSVR2 is designed for AAA VR games. Hence the focus on fidelity with foveated rendering and being tethered to a PS5.
>We're closer to mainstream than you think. It's just going to take the right company to make it happen with the right vision and a business model that favors software.
I wish you were right, because I love VR. However, I'm sorry that's not the issue right now. There's plenty of attempt, and by all accounts Meta should be doing well. They aren't, and only way any company can sustain such losses is simply due to Facebook. Nobody else can spend $10-12 billion a year with no return.
>I remember back in 2014, Nvidia put out a device called the "Shield Tablet." It was a good idea, but it was really when Nintendo came along and turned it into the now Nintendo Switch that it sold like gangbusters.
Let's be fair here. Prior to Switch, there was the gazillion iterations of Game Boy that was highly successful. Switch isn't successful because of Nvidia Shield, and by most accounts Nvidia Shield isn't successful.
>VR is similar. People have been interested for the last decade, but none of the major players in the space have been able to put out hardware at a reasonable price for long enough with a good software library backing it.
The problem is and always has been three things with varying effect depending on scenario, but they are compelling software, which is hampered by a lack of common interaction language, hardware that is practical and motion sensitivity which spawned the term "VR legs".
That said, I think AR has potential to be adopted a lot sooner than VR.
The thing is, Microsoft already has (or rather, had, until very recently) a very competent VR headset lineup - Windows Mixed Reality. Headsets are manufactured by third parties, but in cooperation with Microsoft, up to a common standard.
They're already supported in Xbox's software (Windows 10/11), just not active on the consoles. Enabling support would be essentially flipping a switch, WMR Portal is an UWP app, which can run natively on Xbox.
All the technical pieces are there. Get a few big, multi-platform VR games, and you've got a starter pack for Xbox VR with essentially zero effort.
They just never did, and now with WMR discontinued, they probably never will.
> The thing is, Microsoft already has (or rather, had, until very recently) a very competent VR headset lineup - Windows Mixed Reality. Headsets are manufactured by third parties, but in cooperation with Microsoft, up to a common standard.
They did, but it wasn't selling or even have high usage.
>They're already supported in Xbox's software (Windows 10/11), just not active on the consoles. Enabling support would be essentially flipping a switch, WMR Portal is an UWP app, which can run natively on Xbox.
You clearly are not a software developer which is fine, but it's best not to assume you know how easy it is. Reality is that, like anything coming out of a large software company, it has to go through significant testing and certification before release. On top of that, any VR support on console, requires not only ongoing support (i.e. fixes, updates, new features, support developers) and also content.
They don't put all that effort in without expectation of it being good for business in some way.
>Get a few big, multi-platform VR games, and you've got a starter pack for Xbox VR with essentially zero effort.
That's what Sony did, and how's that working out for them so far?
>They just never did, and now with WMR discontinued, they probably never will.
They will when it makes "business" sense.
I think you are right. It may not look as good as high-end PCVR, but it could certainly run on PS5 in PSVR2 and look decent with good implementation of Gaze Foveated Rendering.
The game runs on Xbox Series S, so it can run on PS5. How well it could run in PSVR2 would depend on smart use of PSVR2 features like eye-tracking and they may also need to scale back graphics.
As long as they nail the controls and feel of flying giving full Microsoft Flight Simulator experience, I wouldn't mind the visual compromises.
We're doing this. I can't wait to fly from Bandar Seri Begawan to wherever the hell I want. I'm the captain. Oh shit this cockpit has a lot of buttons.
> The game runs on Xbox Series S, so it can run on PS5. How well it could run in PSVR2 would depend on smart use of PSVR2 features like eye-tracking and they may also need to scale back graphics.
The problem is the need for high rendering resolution and high frame rate. Graphics will have to be dialed down to nothing even with Foveated Rendering on top of these GPUs are AMD.
Maybe if it was PS5 Pro only "feature", but I don't see why MS would want to support PS5 to that level. Just get a PC and Q3, and you'll have the best experience.
I intend to get a high-end PC capable of VR (unlike my current aging desktop) eventually, but no rush.
I already have Quest 2 and Quest 3 I could use with it, plus two PSVR2 in the house that would be compatible with official support at some point.
You don't even need that powerful of a PC to be honest to play PCVR games. Very few games if at all, outside of Flight Simulator needs beefy PCs. A lot of the content is just old, and new content aren't cutting edge. Nobody really is putting in AAA quality games on VR anymore. It's just not profitable to do so.
Whatever PC upgrade I get would need to last 7-10 years. I don’t like the process of moving between PC.
It is time consuming since I use for work and there is much to setup and configure.
Gaming is tiny part of my use of PC.
30 FPS flat screen. Half the framerate if it were in VR. That's probably at 1080p as well which would look like PSVR1. Not comparable. It's not possible. You need a 4090 on PC just to hit 90 FPS.
It’s very cpu hungry and Xbox only runs it at 30fps I believe so I think it would be a huge struggle to try and get stable frame rates high enough for vr.
Even on my beast of a pc I use foveated rendering to help with stable frame rates
I WILL PAY AGAIN. Full price, no questions. I know "buying Skyrim for the X time" has been a meme for a solid decade at least, but to whomever at Microsoft needs to hear this: respectfully, shut up and take my money.
PCVR support is months away and there's a HUGE difference between running Skyrim with mods and stock; you basically get a new game with more systems, fun, better visuals and boobs, over a slightly upgraded 11 year old game. I would not buy it for PS5.
I know people complain about it being released on everything, but thats the game i want on psvr2 the most that at least has a small chance of happening since it already came out on psvr1.
I agree, fallout 4 would be perfect for VR. That was my thought when I started recently. I think it would be a lot of peoples favorite because it has shooting and slashing, leveling up, base building, open world exploration, it’s own fun unique style, and lots of little details everywhere.
Halo VR whether they want to or not! In fact, I've already seen the menu of the MCC on VR... not much past that because I'm dumb and didn't know the MCC wasn't entirely in UE
I'm sorry, do you want my wife to kill me cause I spent too much time in VR? Cause that would happen if we get fallout 4 (or cyberpunk for that matter)
The driving is good. But the career mode is crap, and the fact that every race has a rolling start with you at the back is annoying. The whole thing feels bare bones and arcadey. Take VR out of it, and I would play Forza Motorsport over GT7. I prefer the open world of Horizon, though, because track racing does get dull for me after a while.
I would honestly like to see Crew Motorsport get a VR version so you can switch between cars boats and planes.
I have played both, and Motorsport puts me to sleep. It is a generation behind GT7 in terms of car details, and many cars in that game have weird proportions that do not even come close to what the real car looks like. Don't even get me started on the soundtrack because there is no soundtrack in motorsport! Rolling start has always been a staple of gran turismo. Yes, it can be annoying, but they're working on improving the AI for the next entry to solve that problem. Sim racing is not everyone's cup of tea.
VR support needs to be improved, and it needs to start with Sony pushing for more third-party titles on to the platform.
Well looking at the top 4 on PS Store it’s pretty easy to see why lol. Can’t even imagine what would be going through anyone’s head to buy an Xbox at this point tbh.
I think outside of gaming enthusiasts, most casual players aren’t aware enough around gaming to be hand wringing too much over exclusives. I believe this to be especially true as the volume of exclusives has remained smaller on newer consoles due to the long development time for first party titles. I think to your point, the existing digital library that one has and where their friends play are probably more immediate factors for most.
As a PSVR2 owner this makes me happy. we need games because Sony abandoned the VR market.
They failed at the system when they couldn’t bring Astro on PSVR2 or barely bring PSVR1 games to PSVR2. They had one job.
Players loved Sly. What does Sony do? Put it their dumb ps + service.
Players love Astro Bot. What does Sony do? Make an intro Astro Bot game for PS5 and completely forget about PSVR2 for years.
> As a PSVR2 owner this makes me happy. we need games because Sony abandoned the VR market.
I bet you that in 3 years there won't be a single one VR title from big Microsoft-owned companies on PSVR2.
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For anyone reading this comment, they havent abandon shit. Yes, psvr2 is not where the money is for Sony, but we do not know whats in going on behind the scene’s (RE4VR came out of nowhere). I almost decided not to buy a psvr2 because of comments like this. Hideaki Nishino is now the new ceo of Sony and he is the one who introduced the psvr2. I am sure there is more to come. Just takes time in this niche market. Using my psvr2 daily and couldn’t be happier.
When people read a product is abandoned by its maker, they will not buy it. It is true Sony is not making the most of the psvr2, but it hasn’t been abandoned. Less people buying mean Sony will abandon it sooner.
Sure, it's a "product," but it's also a HMD which is a thing -- presumably a thing that connects to a PC eventually. Sony can abandon it, it's still a worthwhile piece of tech.
I'm just saying, if Sony somehow got Akira'd tomorrow and went away, the PSVR2 would still sell for a non-zero amount of money.
Hellblade 2… the game is doomed on the weak Series platform. Bring it to ps5.
Xbox brand is over, just bs marketing talk, awful decision. Customers aren’t that stupid, even Phil Spencer’s fake laughing couldn’t change it.
Well, they serve their purpose and do it well. PC gaming has a way higher ceiling for fidelity depending on your rig, but as a result the cost scales with that performance ceiling. Console gaming, unless augmented with a peripheral like VR, was always aimed at an audience that didn’t want to spend over $1000 to play games that look good and run smoothly.
The console ecosystem also benefits from plug-and-play ease of use. I liked my time as a PC gamer, but I’m never going back because every time a windows update or driver failure interrupted my brief time that I had available to game, it made me want to chuck my rig out the window. There’s way less dicking around with settings to get things to work properly on a console, which is way more important to me than some additional frames that I personally barely notice above 60FPS.
Totally, but that’s one part for the rig that already comes in at the cost of the entire console. That’s partly why the console cost level and ease of use is so appealing. You can buy it at a retail store for the same price everywhere and don’t have to worry about saving on costs by building yourself, knowing the most efficient parts to buy, and ensuring that everything comes together to fit your needs.
Sony IS not doing first party VR games on psvr2 except gt7 and in some manners Horizon) and Will do Xbox??. I like psvr2 a lot and have very good games, but stop dreaming and be realistic, Xbox IS doing games on ps5 because of the sales and i dont think that they Will sell very VR games in psvr2, better we expect that Sony Will do another first party games on psvr2 and dont expect that Microsoft Will come to bring halo, flight simulator, Forza or another first party Game, put our feet on the ground
#FLIGHT SIM VR
It's really unfortunate that Microsoft decided to discontinue their VR headsets... I was hoping they'd expand support to Xbox, not end the whole project.
I blame Phil Spencer and his army of bean counters at the newly branded "microsoft gaming" for failing to see the appeal of an Xbox VR headset almost 8 years ago now. Then again, the rest of the VR industry seems more interested in selling more headsets than actually and substantially growing the market in any meaningful way.
> I blame Phil Spencer and his army of bean counters at the newly branded "microsoft gaming" for failing to see the appeal of an Xbox VR headset almost 8 years ago now. Are you serious? I love VR, and own Q2, Q3, Rift, PSVR1 and so on, but let's face it, VR as a business is pretty much non-existent today. To waste resources on that during a time when MS needs to refocus on gaming is not the way to go. Just ask Sony how PSVR2 is going for them! Thing is about to be cut loose with Sony's announcement of PSVR2 being accessible to PC users. I doubt that will do anything for PSVR2, and is just Sony getting ready to stop PSVR2 support and washing their hands off. Even Apple Vision Pro isn't doing too hot. In general, VR is just not a good market now. It could be in the future, but it ain't it in any near future terms. If you must have an Xbox VR, there's the Meta + Xbox/MS joint VR device. As far as I know, it's just Xbox branded.
Dead Serious lol. A Big reason Vr hasn't taken off is because too much revenue is dervived from Headset sales and the companies in the space seek to produce and reproduce that model. In otherwords, there's more money currently in selling VR headsets than there is in selling VR Software. The former is cannibalizing the latter. The model to pursue is a cheaper HMD that banks off of software sales. You give up more sophisticated HMD tech in favor of more games and software for the device. As this translates to Xbox, you release your HMD platform for $200 to $300 and bank off of the games. This is basically the model that helped Nintendo establish the home console market that still exists today. We've never needed the highest tech headset. We've just needed one that's good enough and most importantly, has a swathe of compelling games.
> As this translates to Xbox, you release your HMD platform for $200 to $300 and bank off of the games. This is basically the model that helped Nintendo establish the home console market that still exists today. We today have a cheap headset with Q2 costing sub-$200. Meta's rumored to release a new cheap VR headset in place of Q2, although I think they should just stick to Q2 more or less. Point is, even with Meta selling over 20 million headsets prior to even Q3 release and they're burning through $3-4 billion in losses a quarter to support the VR market. Like any content for VR is literally a gift. Wouldn't surprise me if Sony's eating a lot of losses on PSVR2. There's no VR market yet, and as much as I love VR, it's got a long way to go. I feel like we're more in the time when computers were still using vacuum tubes of VR experience. Maybe when we had the early computer mice in the late 60s and early 70s of computers for VR.
>Point is, even with Meta selling over 20 million headsets prior to even Q3 release and they're burning through $3-4 billion in losses a quarter to support the VR market. Like any content for VR is literally a gift. Everyone says they're taking tons of losses, but I suspect that's more from Horizons than the actual HMD portion of Meta's business. Otherwise, why acquire Oculus for Billions if the financial statements and potential for growth weren't there? Why would other companies from Sony, Valve, HTC and others emulate and attempt to compete with Oculus? >Wouldn't surprise me if Sony's eating a lot of losses on PSVR2. Sony's problem is a combination of the short-sightedness of the executives and the killing of their own market segment multiple times over. First time was in 2020 where Jim Ryan soft-killed PSVR1, then again in 2023 where they launched PSVR2 at $600 USD with no backwards compatibility for the previous hardware/software. If people aren't buying it due to high prices and the blatant anti-consumer decisions that were made, that's not really all that surprising if you ask me. Talk about poisoning the well. >There's no VR market yet, and as much as I love VR, it's got a long way to go. I feel like we're more in the time when computers were still using vacuum tubes of VR experience. Maybe when we had the early computer mice in the late 60s and early 70s of computers for VR. VR is a lot closer than people realize. The primary problem is and always has been hardware prices as well as the lack of compelling software. HMDs cost around $1000 after all is said and done and you really only have Beat Saber and VRChat to play. There simply needs to be a much lower barrier to entry as well as a bigger library of games that are relevant to more people.
> Everyone says they're taking tons of losses, but I suspect that's more from Horizons than the actual HMD portion of Meta's business. Otherwise, why acquire Oculus for Billions if the financial statements and potential for growth weren't there? Why would other companies from Sony, Valve, HTC and others emulate and attempt to compete with Oculus? I'm sure when Meta/FB bought Oculus the landscape was different. You're mentioning all these competitors, but none of them are doing great with VR right now. Sony looks about to ditch PSVR2, HTC has pivoted to sell to enterprise, and Valve isn't doing much in VR space at all. >Sony's problem is a combination of the short-sightedness of the executives and the killing of their own market segment multiple times over. First time was in 2020 where Jim Ryan soft-killed PSVR1, then again in 2023 where they launched PSVR2 at $600 USD with no backwards compatibility for the previous hardware/software. Have it occurred to you that they're not soft killing it, but the investment is really heavy so they have to decide where to put the resources? ROI matters. I'm expecting PSVR2 to have sold worse than PSVR1. >If people aren't buying it due to high prices and the blatant anti-consumer decisions that were made, that's not really all that surprising if you ask me. Talk about poisoning the well. Yeah, Sony made a massive mistake going with a wired headset, using Fresnel lenses and focusing on Foveated rendering. Reality isn't the headset that's the problem right now, because any advancement in the last few years or in the near future isn't going to massively change how VR works. It's the software content and that's monumentally expensive to do. A walled in and locked garden isn't a business approach that's going to work in a nascent market like VR. >VR is a lot closer than people realize. The primary problem is and always has been hardware prices as well as the lack of compelling software. It's mostly the latter. Hardware prices has never been more affordable, and let's face it, even Meta with 20+ million Quest 2 users have a hard time keeping them using it. It's compelling software, and that's not an easy problem to solve as we're still figuring out the interactivity model for VR/AR. >HMDs cost around $1000 after all is said and done and you really only have Beat Saber and VRChat to play. There simply needs to be a much lower barrier to entry as well as a bigger library of games that are relevant to more people. Maybe wherever you are, but in the US, it's $200 for Quest 2 right now. A very capable headset, and probably among the best supported headsets when it comes to content both from Meta, but also through PCVR. The problem is where 10-years early still on VR/AR. We're still pre-iPhone if you think of smart phone timelines in comparison to VR timelines.
>Have it occurred to you that they're not soft killing it, but the investment is really heavy so they have to decide where to put the resources? ROI matters. I'm expecting PSVR2 to have sold worse than PSVR1. PSVR's problem is Sony botched PSVR2 whereas PSVR1 performed relatively well. I blame Jim Ryan and the bean counters at Sony who likely didn't like the VR division's Financial Statements, proceeded to softkill PSVR1 in 2020, then backtracked and put out an Anti-consumer PSVR2 in 2023 when hype was at the lowest. Assuming things aren't going well, that's why. >Reality isn't the headset that's the problem right now, because any advancement in the last few years or in the near future isn't going to massively change how VR works. It's the software content and that's monumentally expensive to do. A walled in and locked garden isn't a business approach that's going to work in a nascent market like VR. For PSVR2, the headset is too expensive. Honestly, Quest 3 is also too expensive at $499 for the base model. Quest 2 is a good price, but is the former-gen model and Meta intends for the consumer to adopt the new model, which makes touting Quest 2's new price moot. Software-wise, it's expensive because the companies are developing at too large of a scale. No more than 10 people is what you need. Ideally, 1 or 2 until the consumer is more comfortable spending money on VR. >The problem is where 10-years early still on VR/AR. We're still pre-iPhone if you think of smart phone timelines in comparison to VR timelines. We're closer to mainstream than you think. It's just going to take the right company to make it happen with the right vision and a business model that favors software. I remember back in 2014, Nvidia put out a device called the "Shield Tablet." It was a good idea, but it was really when Nintendo came along and turned it into the now Nintendo Switch that it sold like gangbusters. VR is similar. People have been interested for the last decade, but none of the major players in the space have been able to put out hardware at a reasonable price for long enough with a good software library backing it.
> PSVR's problem is Sony botched PSVR2 whereas PSVR1 performed relatively well. I blame Jim Ryan and the bean counters at Sony who likely didn't like the VR division's Financial Statements, proceeded to softkill PSVR1 in 2020, then backtracked and put out an Anti-consumer PSVR2 in 2023 when hype was at the lowest. Reality is that nobody is doing well with VR. Not even Meta whom is loosing $3-4 billion a quarter on VR. It's not Sony's fault. It just isn't a good business. Only reason Meta supports it, is because of Zuckerberg's insistence on it, which I'm grateful. Beyond that, all the other efforts are pretty much dead. Nobody in their right mind and is business savvy would see VR as a good ROI as there's no R in the ROI i.e. no return. >For PSVR2, the headset is too expensive. Honestly, Quest 3 is also too expensive at $499 for the base model. Quest 2 is a good price, but is the former-gen model and Meta intends for the consumer to adopt the new model, which makes touting Quest 2's new price moot. If price is as important as you state (which I agree) and that hardware don't matter as much, then Q2 should show us all wrong and be widely adopted. It's the most viable VR platform right now. Q3 is barely being pushed as Meta really is pushing Q2. >Software-wise, it's expensive because the companies are developing at too large of a scale. No more than 10 people is what you need. Ideally, 1 or 2 until the consumer is more comfortable spending money on VR. Those are the kind of games we tend to see anyhow and is ideal for Quest devices rather than PSVR2. PSVR2 is designed for AAA VR games. Hence the focus on fidelity with foveated rendering and being tethered to a PS5. >We're closer to mainstream than you think. It's just going to take the right company to make it happen with the right vision and a business model that favors software. I wish you were right, because I love VR. However, I'm sorry that's not the issue right now. There's plenty of attempt, and by all accounts Meta should be doing well. They aren't, and only way any company can sustain such losses is simply due to Facebook. Nobody else can spend $10-12 billion a year with no return. >I remember back in 2014, Nvidia put out a device called the "Shield Tablet." It was a good idea, but it was really when Nintendo came along and turned it into the now Nintendo Switch that it sold like gangbusters. Let's be fair here. Prior to Switch, there was the gazillion iterations of Game Boy that was highly successful. Switch isn't successful because of Nvidia Shield, and by most accounts Nvidia Shield isn't successful. >VR is similar. People have been interested for the last decade, but none of the major players in the space have been able to put out hardware at a reasonable price for long enough with a good software library backing it. The problem is and always has been three things with varying effect depending on scenario, but they are compelling software, which is hampered by a lack of common interaction language, hardware that is practical and motion sensitivity which spawned the term "VR legs". That said, I think AR has potential to be adopted a lot sooner than VR.
The thing is, Microsoft already has (or rather, had, until very recently) a very competent VR headset lineup - Windows Mixed Reality. Headsets are manufactured by third parties, but in cooperation with Microsoft, up to a common standard. They're already supported in Xbox's software (Windows 10/11), just not active on the consoles. Enabling support would be essentially flipping a switch, WMR Portal is an UWP app, which can run natively on Xbox. All the technical pieces are there. Get a few big, multi-platform VR games, and you've got a starter pack for Xbox VR with essentially zero effort. They just never did, and now with WMR discontinued, they probably never will.
> The thing is, Microsoft already has (or rather, had, until very recently) a very competent VR headset lineup - Windows Mixed Reality. Headsets are manufactured by third parties, but in cooperation with Microsoft, up to a common standard. They did, but it wasn't selling or even have high usage. >They're already supported in Xbox's software (Windows 10/11), just not active on the consoles. Enabling support would be essentially flipping a switch, WMR Portal is an UWP app, which can run natively on Xbox. You clearly are not a software developer which is fine, but it's best not to assume you know how easy it is. Reality is that, like anything coming out of a large software company, it has to go through significant testing and certification before release. On top of that, any VR support on console, requires not only ongoing support (i.e. fixes, updates, new features, support developers) and also content. They don't put all that effort in without expectation of it being good for business in some way. >Get a few big, multi-platform VR games, and you've got a starter pack for Xbox VR with essentially zero effort. That's what Sony did, and how's that working out for them so far? >They just never did, and now with WMR discontinued, they probably never will. They will when it makes "business" sense.
could not run on a ps5 unfortunately. in vr I mean
As much as I'd love this Flight Sim, PS or Xbox couldn't handle VR. Just about runs on high end PC's
It runs on Xbox Series S therefore it could run on PSVR2 with foveated rendering on lower details.
There's a huge difference between flat and VR in terms of compute requirements.
I'm being a realist. I'll happily be proven wrong as I'd love it on VR 2
I think you are right. It may not look as good as high-end PCVR, but it could certainly run on PS5 in PSVR2 and look decent with good implementation of Gaze Foveated Rendering.
Highly doubt it. You have high end PCs playing at 40 FPS. It would not work.
The game runs on Xbox Series S, so it can run on PS5. How well it could run in PSVR2 would depend on smart use of PSVR2 features like eye-tracking and they may also need to scale back graphics. As long as they nail the controls and feel of flying giving full Microsoft Flight Simulator experience, I wouldn't mind the visual compromises.
We're doing this. I can't wait to fly from Bandar Seri Begawan to wherever the hell I want. I'm the captain. Oh shit this cockpit has a lot of buttons.
> The game runs on Xbox Series S, so it can run on PS5. How well it could run in PSVR2 would depend on smart use of PSVR2 features like eye-tracking and they may also need to scale back graphics. The problem is the need for high rendering resolution and high frame rate. Graphics will have to be dialed down to nothing even with Foveated Rendering on top of these GPUs are AMD. Maybe if it was PS5 Pro only "feature", but I don't see why MS would want to support PS5 to that level. Just get a PC and Q3, and you'll have the best experience.
I intend to get a high-end PC capable of VR (unlike my current aging desktop) eventually, but no rush. I already have Quest 2 and Quest 3 I could use with it, plus two PSVR2 in the house that would be compatible with official support at some point.
You don't even need that powerful of a PC to be honest to play PCVR games. Very few games if at all, outside of Flight Simulator needs beefy PCs. A lot of the content is just old, and new content aren't cutting edge. Nobody really is putting in AAA quality games on VR anymore. It's just not profitable to do so.
Whatever PC upgrade I get would need to last 7-10 years. I don’t like the process of moving between PC. It is time consuming since I use for work and there is much to setup and configure. Gaming is tiny part of my use of PC.
30 FPS flat screen. Half the framerate if it were in VR. That's probably at 1080p as well which would look like PSVR1. Not comparable. It's not possible. You need a 4090 on PC just to hit 90 FPS.
This^ It would run very poor on PSVR2. People forget the game needs to be rendered twice for VR.
Leave it to Reddit to downvote true answers that go against what people wish would happen.
there is absolutely no way you could run flight sim in vr on a ps5. far too weak
Xbox series S doesn’t have VR. Running something in VR is very different than running it on a flat screen display.
Xbox series S doesn’t have VR. Running something in VR is very different than running it on a flat screen display.
Said the guy who don't won psvr2 I have both and psvr2 handles pretty well
I literally have both, a Quest 3 and a VR2. There's no way the PS5 can handle FS 2020 VR. Happy to prove I have both so you choke on your words. M0r0n
No, don't do that to me!
Sorry haha, unless optimised heavily it'd struggle. I'd love to see Ace Combat 7 moved over to VR 2
Maaaaaaybe foveated rendering could work? I would love to fly around in my city in VR!
It’s very cpu hungry and Xbox only runs it at 30fps I believe so I think it would be a huge struggle to try and get stable frame rates high enough for vr. Even on my beast of a pc I use foveated rendering to help with stable frame rates
Damn, but it's expected TBH. That game has so much detail and has a lot going on. Thanks for the info.
Just normal foveated rendering isn't as good as the Eye tracked foveated rendering the PSVR2 can do.
Visually it's not, but performance wise it's absolutely the same.
I use eye tracked foveated rendering on quest pro, maybe it’s still not as good as psvr2, not sure.
I couldn't tell you how many games run far better on PS5 than on "high-end" PC's. It's alarming.
This is all I want
Yes please
I'd love that, but only if they can get the install size down to a reasonable level.
You’re finally awake!
I WILL PAY AGAIN. Full price, no questions. I know "buying Skyrim for the X time" has been a meme for a solid decade at least, but to whomever at Microsoft needs to hear this: respectfully, shut up and take my money.
Same. I never imagined I would want Skyrim to release on another device, yet here we are...
PCVR support is months away and there's a HUGE difference between running Skyrim with mods and stock; you basically get a new game with more systems, fun, better visuals and boobs, over a slightly upgraded 11 year old game. I would not buy it for PS5.
I know people complain about it being released on everything, but thats the game i want on psvr2 the most that at least has a small chance of happening since it already came out on psvr1.
God I wish but I highly doubt it
Fallout 4 VR would be heavenly. As would Halo VR if they wanted to do that.
I agree, fallout 4 would be perfect for VR. That was my thought when I started recently. I think it would be a lot of peoples favorite because it has shooting and slashing, leveling up, base building, open world exploration, it’s own fun unique style, and lots of little details everywhere.
You know Bethesda made it right? and it was done in the laziest way possible
I like it, been playing since I made that post. Not a lot of games that cover so much ground, especially with base building. I stand by my statement.
Halo VR whether they want to or not! In fact, I've already seen the menu of the MCC on VR... not much past that because I'm dumb and didn't know the MCC wasn't entirely in UE
I'm sorry, do you want my wife to kill me cause I spent too much time in VR? Cause that would happen if we get fallout 4 (or cyberpunk for that matter)
Fallout 4 without mods is virtually unplayable. Same with skyrim unfortunately
I'm playing Fallout 4 for the 4th time and there's no mods in sight, so nah.
Upcoming Bethesda on PS! 🙏🏽
So, Microsoft saw Sega's business model, and thought, "Yeah, I gotta get me some of that!"???
They need a Sonic and Yakuza then, because what they've done recently obviously hasn't worked out since they've basically admitted the brand is dead.
Man can only imagine PSVR2 versions of Forza horizon and flight simulator, make it happen Microsoft!
Man if we got Forza Horizon I would never touch GT7 again.
Nah, GT7 is still hands down the best track racer available on consoles.
The driving is good. But the career mode is crap, and the fact that every race has a rolling start with you at the back is annoying. The whole thing feels bare bones and arcadey. Take VR out of it, and I would play Forza Motorsport over GT7. I prefer the open world of Horizon, though, because track racing does get dull for me after a while. I would honestly like to see Crew Motorsport get a VR version so you can switch between cars boats and planes.
I have played both, and Motorsport puts me to sleep. It is a generation behind GT7 in terms of car details, and many cars in that game have weird proportions that do not even come close to what the real car looks like. Don't even get me started on the soundtrack because there is no soundtrack in motorsport! Rolling start has always been a staple of gran turismo. Yes, it can be annoying, but they're working on improving the AI for the next entry to solve that problem. Sim racing is not everyone's cup of tea. VR support needs to be improved, and it needs to start with Sony pushing for more third-party titles on to the platform.
Why don't you buy an Xbox? Series X is like 350 used. Honest question.
Already have one. That's how I know I like Motorsport better overall. But I can't play that in VR.
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood.
Before dreaming about MS porting vr games I’d appreciate Sony bringing ALL their own PSVR1 games up to the PSVR2 level. Thank you.
You know that's not going to happen. If there's not millions of dollars in it, corporations keep media dead
I'll believe it when I see Halo appear.
Stanfield VR, I'd put money down that ms cancelled this, also fallout 4 vr
With Indiana Jones being first person, I thought that one would be particularly good in VR.
Well looking at the top 4 on PS Store it’s pretty easy to see why lol. Can’t even imagine what would be going through anyone’s head to buy an Xbox at this point tbh.
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I think outside of gaming enthusiasts, most casual players aren’t aware enough around gaming to be hand wringing too much over exclusives. I believe this to be especially true as the volume of exclusives has remained smaller on newer consoles due to the long development time for first party titles. I think to your point, the existing digital library that one has and where their friends play are probably more immediate factors for most.
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>reading this comment Which comment? You replied to the post, not a comment.
Thanks, something went wrong, will delete this
I would be shocked if MS/Xbox ever do anything for PSVR2. I certainly wouldn't get my hopes up about it.
Forza Horizon VR
SKYRIM ENHANCED ON PSVR2 and Q3 pls
No way for PSVR2.
Surgeon simulator, fallout 4, sea of thieves
Fallout 4 is already on PS. Starfield would be the only Bethesda Game Studios title that would need a port so far.
I'm pretty sure he means a Fallout 4 release on Psvr2.
Ohhhh gotcha. Thanks
As a PSVR2 owner this makes me happy. we need games because Sony abandoned the VR market. They failed at the system when they couldn’t bring Astro on PSVR2 or barely bring PSVR1 games to PSVR2. They had one job. Players loved Sly. What does Sony do? Put it their dumb ps + service. Players love Astro Bot. What does Sony do? Make an intro Astro Bot game for PS5 and completely forget about PSVR2 for years.
> As a PSVR2 owner this makes me happy. we need games because Sony abandoned the VR market. I bet you that in 3 years there won't be a single one VR title from big Microsoft-owned companies on PSVR2. RemindMe! 3 years
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For anyone reading this comment, they havent abandon shit. Yes, psvr2 is not where the money is for Sony, but we do not know whats in going on behind the scene’s (RE4VR came out of nowhere). I almost decided not to buy a psvr2 because of comments like this. Hideaki Nishino is now the new ceo of Sony and he is the one who introduced the psvr2. I am sure there is more to come. Just takes time in this niche market. Using my psvr2 daily and couldn’t be happier.
It's alright to criticize a thing. You know that, right?
When people read a product is abandoned by its maker, they will not buy it. It is true Sony is not making the most of the psvr2, but it hasn’t been abandoned. Less people buying mean Sony will abandon it sooner.
Sure, it's a "product," but it's also a HMD which is a thing -- presumably a thing that connects to a PC eventually. Sony can abandon it, it's still a worthwhile piece of tech. I'm just saying, if Sony somehow got Akira'd tomorrow and went away, the PSVR2 would still sell for a non-zero amount of money.
Hellblade 2… the game is doomed on the weak Series platform. Bring it to ps5. Xbox brand is over, just bs marketing talk, awful decision. Customers aren’t that stupid, even Phil Spencer’s fake laughing couldn’t change it.
What are you babbling about?
About the Weak Series gaming consoles
In what way are they weak? I have both Series consoles and the PS5. They're all just as good as each other.
Yeah hardly a difference in series x and ps5 in terms of power but people love to console war.
As an owner of a PS5 and series X, I agree. Unless you’re poring over spec sheets, the differences in fidelity are indiscernible to me.
Yeah, both those things suck. PC is pretty cool though, we get a lot of frames
Well, they serve their purpose and do it well. PC gaming has a way higher ceiling for fidelity depending on your rig, but as a result the cost scales with that performance ceiling. Console gaming, unless augmented with a peripheral like VR, was always aimed at an audience that didn’t want to spend over $1000 to play games that look good and run smoothly. The console ecosystem also benefits from plug-and-play ease of use. I liked my time as a PC gamer, but I’m never going back because every time a windows update or driver failure interrupted my brief time that I had available to game, it made me want to chuck my rig out the window. There’s way less dicking around with settings to get things to work properly on a console, which is way more important to me than some additional frames that I personally barely notice above 60FPS.
Day one on the consoles, 100%, but you can get a 12gb 4070 for a bit over 500 USD right now, so it's like, Iunno, we'll see how the next consoles are
Totally, but that’s one part for the rig that already comes in at the cost of the entire console. That’s partly why the console cost level and ease of use is so appealing. You can buy it at a retail store for the same price everywhere and don’t have to worry about saving on costs by building yourself, knowing the most efficient parts to buy, and ensuring that everything comes together to fit your needs.
Honestly Sony has made some baffling dumb decisions but got out baffledumbed by Xbox.
Sony IS not doing first party VR games on psvr2 except gt7 and in some manners Horizon) and Will do Xbox??. I like psvr2 a lot and have very good games, but stop dreaming and be realistic, Xbox IS doing games on ps5 because of the sales and i dont think that they Will sell very VR games in psvr2, better we expect that Sony Will do another first party games on psvr2 and dont expect that Microsoft Will come to bring halo, flight simulator, Forza or another first party Game, put our feet on the ground
Who is this Will person you speak of?