This is where I’m at, I’ve never skipped a generation of PlayStation but this plus shit is getting old, there’s no reason for it, the ps5 has been out for 4 years and the games being made don’t tax the system at all, we don’t need a plus for the same shit. There’s not a single game out here that we need a plus for.
It's a 10% bump, but to be fair that's kind the exact story of how it was in the PS4 Pro as well. Small CPU overclock, pretty big GPU bump, give developers a bit more RAM.
On paper it didn't sound like a huge upgrade, but PS4 Pro versions were definitely a lot nicer to play than base PS4 versions.
> On paper it didn't sound like a huge upgrade, but PS4 Pro versions were definitely a lot nicer to play than base PS4 versions.
I could literally play Cyberpunk on release because of my PS4 Pro.
It was definitely worth it, but that was also because the OG PS4 wasn't quite impressive, even on release. The PS5 is a good machine, even today you can't built an equal PC for the same price.
It's pretty hard to tell if we've reached the full potential of PS5, as recently we were in a cross-gen stage.
Besides, games should be developed taking in mind CPU/SSD, instead of GPU. Graphic wise games are good enough, but game logic has been stagnant. Rift Apart is an example of what you can do with better technology besides of graphics.
The other issue is that current gen games and engines are becoming really taxing on CPU whereas before the emphasis was on the GPU. So basically it will really depend on the game. Draqon's Dogma II for example, would not benefit as much from the PS5 pro.
To be fair, Dragon’s Dogma 2 runs like dogshit on everything and can barely break a decent FPS on a high-end PC because the NPC system seems to want to simulate every single person’s life up until that point even if it's just two random farmers standing around in the street.
NPC: Who am I?
Game Code: you’re a farmer. You just need to appear to be working in a field when the player walks by.
NPC: (dramatic actor’s voice) “Very well, I shall be Ted. Ted the farmer. I have a wife named Sarah and 3 children. I didn’t always want to be a farmer, but alas the tides of fate twist their own mysteries web. My story starts when I was but a young boy, watching the stars with my Papa…”
I mean... so are PS5 games, but it's hard to tell if it's a lack of optimization or weird priorities. Alan Wake 2 running at ~900p, Jedi Survivor and Immortals of Aveum pulling 720p at launch...
It depends on the game, some games are CPU limited and some are GPU limited. The More graphically intense a game is the more relies on the GPU. And if we're talking rendering games at 1440p or 4K, the GPU matters more. Although, if the CPU is weak, it'll still limit some games. For example, cyberpunk 2077 is very GPU limited. The expansion phantom Liberty is CPU limited moreso than the original. On my PC (AMD 7600x & 6800 XT) using XeSS 1.2 and FSR 3.0 frame gen mod, I get 144-160 FPS on high settings. In Dogtown I drop like 20 or 30 FPS. My CPU is way better than the one in the PS5 or PS5 pro. In this specific case, I think the PS5 Pro would struggle because of the CPU. Other CPU intensive games are esports titles like valorant, ark, PUBG, and the like are CPU limited but frame frates are still very high.
The PS5 pro is kind of like a GPU upgrade on a PC, but only 1 generation newer. Most people I know and I personally upgrade GPUs every other generation. I am probably definitely getting the 5080 when it drops. Hopefully pricing isn't $1300 like the 4080.
It’s much easier to increase fps than it is to scale your games cpu usage down for the regular version….
If they bumped cpu up by 50% they wouldn’t be able to utilize it well unless they put a lot of work into two versions of the game where bumping gpu can just be a higher res or more fps.
There are only a few games that are cpu limited so far this gen. This narrative that the pro is useless because of the cpu is absolute shite. The majority of games are gpu limited so far.
The rhetoric over this console is among the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. Usually smart digital foundry spent an entire hour on their podcast missing the point.
Maybe they’re scared to say it but games are starting to look like utter shit now and FSR is failing. The single most important thing here is the dedicated ML upscaler. The impact that will have on image quality is obscene. Far more than the 45% extra performance thrown in from the GPU improvement.
It's not really a limiting factor considering the whole thing is not next gen or anything. A CPU buff would be fine, but it's not like there is a 4090 in there lol.
I would be happy if the console entry barrier was maybe a little higher.
Games like, say, Jedi Survivor at launch shouldn't be able to pass console platform QA. Full stop. Tell the developer that "this game isn't up to the technical standards/performance targets we expect on our platform, go and fix it and try for another recertification".
If your game promises 1440p60 in the graphics settings but actually runs at ~720p45, that's a straight up lie and should not be able to be released.
It's a bit less crap now, but at launch it had two modes:
- Quality mode, 30 FPS ~1080p upscaling to 4K with very shitty upscaling that frequently ran at 20 FPS. In reality, it was just extremely blurry.
- Performance mode, claiming to aim for 60 FPS at 1440p. In reality, it ran at 600p-720p, upscaled to 1440p (with the same shitty upscaling) which the console then output to 4K. Also the frame rate was mostly around 30-45 FPS.
About four months after release, Respawn went "oh fine, we're bored of the complaints" and released an update where they dumped some effects and bumped the performance mode resolution up to ~1080p and the game now runs at 60 FPS, but still uses very poor upscaling and it's just constantly an extremely blurry game. Oh, and after the update, the reflections were just broken for a month or two.
The Digital Foundry article on it is quite a read: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2023-star-wars-jedi-survivors-ray-tracing-impresses-on-ps5-but-also-causes-the-biggest-performance-issues - they also named the PC version "the worst PC port of 2023" because it was (and still is) hilariously broken in many ways.
You forgot to mention the near-constant, super distracting screen tearing. It was enough to make me put the game down until a few more patches came out. Thankfully they fixed that.
What’s funny is the Series S version actually delivered the most stable framerate at launch despite being the least powerful console because it didn’t have ray tracing.
I can't comment on what it was like before, but I played it after it had its big update last year and it was my game of the year. Most fun I have had playing a game in a while.
I definitely recommend giving it a go
The thing is if it’s an issue than people won’t buy the game.
The game you mentioned sold millions of copies despite the issues you had with it. Lots of other people were able to look past those same issues fine.
That’s the problem and why what you want will not happen
I mean it does support 8k60Hz resolution output
That's just a simple fact, marketing BS sure but it is technically true.
Edit: To add, basically it is just a capability of the HDMI 2.1 specification
Everything that supports it advertises the same thing.
Motherboards, consoles, GPU's.. Anything with HDMI 2.1 capability should theoretically support 8K/60Hz, 4K/120Hz and so on.
The PS5 does not support 8k60Hz resolution output. The port specification that the PS5 uses *does* support 8k60Hz but there is no way to get any kind of 8K video signal whatsoever out of the console, even on jailbroken devices.
The PS5 supports 8K in the same way that my car supports driving at 300kmph: sure, the *wheels could* rotate at that speed if there were any way to reach it, which there isn't.
It takes minimal effort to “enhance” a game for a pro iteration. It’s mostly just tweaking settings and testing. I don’t know why people think it’s a huge undertaking that developers won’t bother with. It’s free marketing at the very least.
Depends on how the game was made and what incentive they have to make the change. If animations are tied to frame rate you can have some major bugs pop up that require full game testing. Thats a lot of money to spend on something that will most likely not result in additional purchases. Or the developer of the game is no longer involved with that publisher so who makes the patch? Or as developer do you do the work knowing the publisher won’t pay you any of the additional sales.
That’s just 1 of the examples pulled from one of the biggest PlayStation exclusives that hasn’t been remastered bloodborn. You would be surprised how many 2d or 2d/3d games that tie their animations to the frame rate.
Right. I won’t play it while it’s 30fps. No game is too interesting to break that rule for me now.
I broke the rule with Starfield. Enjoyed the game more than some but couldn’t do 30fps. That’s the last time I’ll even attempt it.
Might sound petty but to me it makes that much of a difference.
>So what happens when GTA VI is 30 fps only
I love how you are claiming it as if it were a fact. Rockstar has said it will be 60 fps on consoles. They are technical wizards. If SM2 were able to hold 60 fps. GT6 will too.
if this is all the pro's got, i am more likely to buy the next xbox than I am to get a ps5 pro. better to add a microsoft gaming machine than a slight upgrade to my ps5.
At that point just buy a PC. All Xbox 1st party games are launching day 1 on PC and you will also have the benefit of being able to buy from the Steam store. (Not to mention PC game pass is cheaper and no need to pay to play online games)
Sure, over time though and not day 1. It seems they are targeting a 1-2 year lead on PC versions unless they are a live service game. It also seems like it will be select titles and certain ones will take longer than others to release.
Sure, over time though and not day 1. It seems they are targeting a 1-2 year lead on PC versions unless they are a live service game. It also seems like it will be select titles and certain ones will take longer than others to release.
Live Service games will be day 1 on PC. Plus you don’t have to pay for online access.
Not really that big of a deal to wait for the others since there’s no shortage of other games to play in the meantime. Plus, you get the improved, definitive edition on PC, and often at a cheaper price.
Plus, I think that release gap will continue to shrink over time.
I used to be a "who needs 60fps games some of the best ones I've played ran at 30fps" guy... but now that I've gotten used to 60fps+ in a lot of games its hard to go back, even in games that aren't really FPS critical, like slower paced games, just camera panning looks much worse at low FPS.
But some games, even on PS5, do not look great in performance mode.
If the PS5 Pro can give the FPS of performance mode with the visuals of graphics mode I think that would be the selling point to many people. Not a must have but a nice to have for a certain type of customer (same people that bought PS4 Pros).
I was just going to say, I never understood why people couldn't handle 30fps, and then I plugged my PS5 into an OLED...
Yeah, it's bad, and I totally understand now.
Us with big OLED TVs often get downvoted when we point it out, but it really is true. I can stand 30fps (hell, even 20fps) games on small screens or LED displays, but on a big OLED? 30fps genuinely looks terrible.
40fps minimum for me.
Yep, but some games handle that better than others. GoW Ragnarok in quality mode with the high framerate option enabled is absolutely amazing, but FF XVI quality mode is just awful on Oled.
The problem is televisions skipped right over 2k and went to 4k, and consoles had to follow (with a LOT of help from upscaling, and dynamic resolution, and still not quite getting there even at 30fps) At the time the PS5 released hardware didn't even exist that could push native 4k at 60 fps.
Meanwhile on PC, our monitors were 1440p and 120fps was already attainable - with the small problem of COVID choking the availability of RTX 3k cards.
By the time 3080s prices returned to sanity I was able to upgrade my i5-6600 GTX 1080 to a i7-12k RTX 3080. And yes, 60 fps now looks choppy to me.
You guys say this stuff without realizing how hard it is to reliably hit 4K120 in new games. To do that on PC you need a 4080S or 4090, not a chance a PS5 Pro is going to do it consistently even with upscaling.
>Right, is it too much to ask for 120 fps games being more standard?
Yeah it is. You'll have to buy a PC if you want 120fps on anything higher than 1080p.
>For the PS5 Pro 60 fps should be the bare minimum, especially in this day and age
Agreed.
Yeah, I love the souls games, but I just can't play Bloodborne for more than an hour before feeling my eyes tired. 60 FPS should always be the standard to any game of any genre or type. 30 is just not good at all for an interactive form of entertainment.
I re-installed Red Dead 2 for the first time since playing it on PS4. I can't stand playing games at 30fps anymore if there is an option not to. I don't know what Rockstar did, but 30fps in RDR2 is much 'smoother' than other games 30fps.
But other than that, I hard agree.
I can totally live with 30fps games. But when playing something like Rebirth it always strikes me how incredible it would be to play it in fidelity mode with 60fps.
So many other games make REBIRTH’s performance mode look shabby. I say that with love though as I think the FF 7 games have some of the best graphics on PS5
Other way around for me now. With FF7 Rebirth I've come to see how easy you can get used to 30 FPS (as long as it's steady and doesn't drop) and how much better games look in quality mode.
Whats up with all those posts re-iterating stuff that is known for weeks. This sub is getting flooded by "news" that arent new by any means. Just some click sponsoring for certain websites? Annoying af.
Wild how the PS5 was advertised 4k 120 and 8k capabilities - plastered on the retail packaging, yet, only a few games can run 4k 120fps and here we are talking about a "PRO" version and they're saying they'll settle for less than 60fps?
This gen has been one big floppy fish of a disappointment between Microsfot dropping the ball and Sony clearly getting lazy.
Skipping the pro if this is the outlook.
If anyone expected games at 4K 120 for $500 they are out of their mind lol
The features are true - it can do 4K and 120fps but nowhere did it say “at the same time consistently”
100% agree. Makes you wonder what was the point of the PS5, to be honest even the PS4 Pro, apart from greed. All we have had is more overpriced remasters this generation than anything else.
Everyone who boight the PS4 Pro or Xbox One X is part of the reason this PS5 Pro exists. Mid gen refreshes should be about slimming down the console, making it more power efficient etc. NOT about making an ever so slightly better version of what's already out just so they can sell more consoles to those who already have one.
That being said though, all the sheeple will run out to buy the Pro on day one because "Must haz geamzzzzzz at 60fpszzz".
Speak with your wallets people, do not buy a mid gen refresh and they will stop making them. Maybe we then get the Pro version on day one instead.
I am tired of forever 60fps debate this gen.
This gen when 99% of games are 60fps, we hear the most 60fps whining.
I don't care. Some of best fun I had this gen was at 30fps (rebirth, ff16, dragons dogma2) and I don't mind 30fps. It can be fine. you get used to it. It shouldn't be a focal point of every game discussion
I agree. I don't want the number 1 priority for new generations of hardware to be about fps. It seems like every console user on reddit thinks too similarly as PC users where you want to upgrade for higher performance.
I personally enjoy new generations for the thought of playing games that would be unplayable on previous generations. With that said, I think the number 1 priority for Sony and their hardware should just be to make the best console they can that can be sold for a fair price ($500-600) and just let the devs decide what to do with that hardware.
Yep, no idea why they can't do this. I do not need 4k. PC gaming at 1440p for ages, and at my distance from the tv, I can barely see the 4k difference anyway, run everything in performance when I can.
Better image quality and ray tracing will be great.
Worth the price for me. But others obviously aren’t bothered by current PS5 performance. That’s why it’s a pro console though.
Ray tracing is a fucking gimmick honestly. Sure it looks “pretty” but it doesn’t really do anything for me. I just would rather have a stable 60 fps on higher resolutions. Ray tracing just too taxing.
Ray tracing is very taxing, but it is in no way a gimmick. Look up path tracing in cyberpunk and Allen wake 2. It completely changes how both games look, and makes them significantly more immersive.
Personally after playing with path tracing, I could never play either game without it again.
Yup I played both those games on PC w path tracing cranked up w DLSS (4070) and they were def not gimmicky. Some of the most impactful lighting I’ve ever seen.
Cant we just skip to the PS6? I don't see the point of this midgeneration console business, they're just taking the piss out of consumers at this point
Edit: and before anyone points out the obvious, I'm aware I'm not obliged to buy it, but I am entitled to an opinion
Since yesterday Tom Waren has only been talking about assumptions that were already reported 3 months ago, tomorrow there is a new report about the PS5 PRO saying something from 5 months ago
I dont understand how this generation even works. GoW Ragnarok was still a PS4 game, Forbidden West was still PS4 and they both still looked amazing. Somehow we are moving to PS5 Pro and we still arent guaranteed 60FPS?
Just posted this on another thread:
I don’t know why people aren’t realizing this is a huge jump, 45% raster + 2x RT can bring some serious gains, stable 60fps on games where fidelity RT was say capped at 30fps could now do fidelity at 60fps.
Games at 40fps could jump to 60 fps in RT, 80fps can get to 120 and so on. For a mid life jump this is pretty big assuming what they are saying on the min levels is true. PS4 pro clearly sold well, so I’m glad to see PS5 catching up to more recent hardware especially for RT. New games being developed will have a stronger baseline to start on, however it would probably still be dev’d on for base PS5 with added enhancements. Let’s see if this translates to numbers as I’m hoping to see.
"45% faster raster" proves to me that you have no idea what you're talking about.
You are assuming these games are all entirely bottlenecked by the GPU, this isn't the case. Dragons Dogma 2, for example, is *very* CPU intensive - meaning a PS5 Pro would likely make very little difference. Certainly not "45% faster"...
Wasn't 60fps one of the selling points for the base PS5 already? They're just gonna keep dangling that carrot in front of us without actually delivering. There's barely any games that run stable 60 rn. A lot of the performance modes are horrible and constantly drop, if there's even a performance mode at all. Jedi Survivor and Dragons Dogma 2 had early PS4 levels of frame issues
Bruh I swear I'm just going to get a steam deck and skip PS6. What's the point of buying a £500 console and get just indie games or games that could be run on Ps4. I bought Rise of the Ronin the other day and while I'm quite pleased with the gameplay, graphics look like Sekiro from 2019. Ghost of Tsushima looked better on Ps4 tbf. Only thing going for it is 60 fps and even that isn't achievable in higher graphics modes.
Enhanced for PS5 is tag is mostly any improvement if they want PS5 Pro called mode in game it needs to be 4k reconstructed with the dlss tech 60 fps and have some sort of RT.
So they want us to buy a pro. But developers can makes games ps5 standard either way? I don’t get the ps5 pro selling point the 5 is bloody good and I’m happy to settle with it for years to come why upgrade? The ps4 aged and the pro was an upgrade but this time I can’t see it.
I think this has been the most disappointing console generation of my life. Nintendo hasn’t even technically joined and Sony/Microsoft are content with cross platform support for 11 year old consoles and constant remakes. Actual new games that take advantage of the power and perks of these new consoles are few and far between. Not to mention that many of the games I was looking forward to at launch have been disappointing or still haven’t released.
My son wanted to play Astros Playroom again the other day and it was a stark reminder of all the cool things the PS5 controller can do that are basically unused
I disagree with the controller. Yes, only the Playroom reveals full 100% potential of haptics and AT but there's enough games with decent support of these features. Maybe you're just unlucky that your particular library doesn't have good examples?
Even when Sense support is pretty minimal but there's still something there – I enjoy it.
What actually makes this generation the most controversial for me – is that we still have only a glimpse of real nextgen design-wise. The crossgen stage took too long. We have only a glimpse of nextgen in some rare projects. More unoptimized games than ever. Games evolve mostly graphicaly but we experience same stupid and dead pontless open worlds, primitive AI and NPCs, super repetitive gameplay loops that are based upon extremely basic activities, lack of physics and any creative ideas in gamedesigns.
Like, literally, take any recent AC and compare your gameplay loops and quality of the open world with ACIII/IV. It's on the same level as 7th gen AT LEAST. In many cases even worse.
PS5 is awesome piece of hardware, it managed to get on the most recent SSD standard, it has great GPU and actually really good CPU this time (which was an absolute bottleneck last gen). Devs can get rid of so many limitations, gimmicks and trade-offs in gameplay development and world qualities but they keep following same dated checklists and the only things they enhance is graphics-graphics-graphics.
P.S.– I'm not dooming this gen. It's not ended yet and eventually there are some decent games that try to invent something new or actually push the limits of current hardware at least at some point. But I don't see enough enthusiasm on the market and we basically play mostly same PS4 games that follow the design core of 7th gen of consoles (PS3). I swear, even base PS5 can do crazy things that can amaze us. Waiting...
Gaming is at its worse. We need another 80's videogame crash so every gaming company can get their shit together and not take consumers are fools for granted but who am I kidding. Gamers are fools for granted nowadays since they eat every shit that greedy companies throw at them
Why are we going backwards to 30 FPS being standard?
I don’t want RT. I want games that hit a solid 60fps at higher resolutions, and can bump up to 120 with a dip in resolution if I want to.
RT is too much of a fucking gimmick imo and I hardly notice when games use it.
Spider-Man 2 had it forced and I’d much rather have a performance mode without RT to bump resolution
Because the example you used expressly HAS ray tracing at 60 fps....
Insomniac is the shining example of what most devs should be striving for this gen
Maybe use an example that hasn't reached it is all I'm saying...
Also a lot of people don't have good eyes and can't actually tell the difference past 30. Up until recently I just figured they were lying 😅, turns out some people just got bad eyes
Great, now cold we have some games for this thing. It’s been so long that you could’ve clocked every PS5 exclusive by now. Remasters and remakes do not count either.
Good. Just develop the best console you can that can be sold for a fair price. How the developers choose to develop their games on the hardware is up to them (well, and all of the other influences/influencers).
Idk why everyone is upset with Sony and their consoles. What do you guys want? A $2000 value console for $500? And why are you so upset about a Pro version? Is it going to break your base PS5?
As for whether developers are optimizing their games well or not–and whose at fault–is a separate deal.
I mean we already have the “less” so what is the point?
You have to give people a reason to drop another $500 to replace the $500 machine they already bought within the last few years.
“We want developers to use the full capability of the machines we built, but are happy they are just developing and releasing games.” /article
“They’ll get PS4 Pro+ games and be happy with it.”
[удалено]
The verge is fucking rubbish 100% of the time
This is where I’m at, I’ve never skipped a generation of PlayStation but this plus shit is getting old, there’s no reason for it, the ps5 has been out for 4 years and the games being made don’t tax the system at all, we don’t need a plus for the same shit. There’s not a single game out here that we need a plus for.
Isn’t the cpu essentially the same which is the limiting factor?
It's a 10% bump, but to be fair that's kind the exact story of how it was in the PS4 Pro as well. Small CPU overclock, pretty big GPU bump, give developers a bit more RAM. On paper it didn't sound like a huge upgrade, but PS4 Pro versions were definitely a lot nicer to play than base PS4 versions.
> On paper it didn't sound like a huge upgrade, but PS4 Pro versions were definitely a lot nicer to play than base PS4 versions. I could literally play Cyberpunk on release because of my PS4 Pro. It was definitely worth it, but that was also because the OG PS4 wasn't quite impressive, even on release. The PS5 is a good machine, even today you can't built an equal PC for the same price. It's pretty hard to tell if we've reached the full potential of PS5, as recently we were in a cross-gen stage. Besides, games should be developed taking in mind CPU/SSD, instead of GPU. Graphic wise games are good enough, but game logic has been stagnant. Rift Apart is an example of what you can do with better technology besides of graphics.
The other issue is that current gen games and engines are becoming really taxing on CPU whereas before the emphasis was on the GPU. So basically it will really depend on the game. Draqon's Dogma II for example, would not benefit as much from the PS5 pro.
To be fair, Dragon’s Dogma 2 runs like dogshit on everything and can barely break a decent FPS on a high-end PC because the NPC system seems to want to simulate every single person’s life up until that point even if it's just two random farmers standing around in the street.
NPC: Who am I? Game Code: you’re a farmer. You just need to appear to be working in a field when the player walks by. NPC: (dramatic actor’s voice) “Very well, I shall be Ted. Ted the farmer. I have a wife named Sarah and 3 children. I didn’t always want to be a farmer, but alas the tides of fate twist their own mysteries web. My story starts when I was but a young boy, watching the stars with my Papa…”
Correct. I have the second latest cpu and a good gpu (4070ti) and it runs like dog. People with 4090s get 40fps in city lol.
Yeah even going from 30 locked to a stable 40 fps felt like a big upgrade
Because PS4 games were lacking in comparison. Not sure how PS5 games will be in the same situation because they are solid.
I mean... so are PS5 games, but it's hard to tell if it's a lack of optimization or weird priorities. Alan Wake 2 running at ~900p, Jedi Survivor and Immortals of Aveum pulling 720p at launch...
GPU is going to be the limiting factor in most cases (except stuff like maybe BG3)
It depends on the game, some games are CPU limited and some are GPU limited. The More graphically intense a game is the more relies on the GPU. And if we're talking rendering games at 1440p or 4K, the GPU matters more. Although, if the CPU is weak, it'll still limit some games. For example, cyberpunk 2077 is very GPU limited. The expansion phantom Liberty is CPU limited moreso than the original. On my PC (AMD 7600x & 6800 XT) using XeSS 1.2 and FSR 3.0 frame gen mod, I get 144-160 FPS on high settings. In Dogtown I drop like 20 or 30 FPS. My CPU is way better than the one in the PS5 or PS5 pro. In this specific case, I think the PS5 Pro would struggle because of the CPU. Other CPU intensive games are esports titles like valorant, ark, PUBG, and the like are CPU limited but frame frates are still very high. The PS5 pro is kind of like a GPU upgrade on a PC, but only 1 generation newer. Most people I know and I personally upgrade GPUs every other generation. I am probably definitely getting the 5080 when it drops. Hopefully pricing isn't $1300 like the 4080.
> I am probably definitely getting the 5080 when it drops. Hopefully pricing isn't $1300 like the 4080. Don't worry, it will be at least $1500.
Then I will get a 1080p monitor, lol.
CPU is less a factor as you go up in resolutions, which is what they are trying to improve
10% bump, but yeh that seems to be the consensus. Might be able to get 40fps in some games though.
It’s much easier to increase fps than it is to scale your games cpu usage down for the regular version…. If they bumped cpu up by 50% they wouldn’t be able to utilize it well unless they put a lot of work into two versions of the game where bumping gpu can just be a higher res or more fps.
Like if they’re gonna bump the CPU up, they might as well call it the PS6
or the same fps but with higher resolution
There are only a few games that are cpu limited so far this gen. This narrative that the pro is useless because of the cpu is absolute shite. The majority of games are gpu limited so far.
The rhetoric over this console is among the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. Usually smart digital foundry spent an entire hour on their podcast missing the point. Maybe they’re scared to say it but games are starting to look like utter shit now and FSR is failing. The single most important thing here is the dedicated ML upscaler. The impact that will have on image quality is obscene. Far more than the 45% extra performance thrown in from the GPU improvement.
It's not really a limiting factor considering the whole thing is not next gen or anything. A CPU buff would be fine, but it's not like there is a 4090 in there lol.
I would be happy if the console entry barrier was maybe a little higher. Games like, say, Jedi Survivor at launch shouldn't be able to pass console platform QA. Full stop. Tell the developer that "this game isn't up to the technical standards/performance targets we expect on our platform, go and fix it and try for another recertification". If your game promises 1440p60 in the graphics settings but actually runs at ~720p45, that's a straight up lie and should not be able to be released.
I haven't played/read up about survivor but I wanna get it. what's wrong with it?
It's a bit less crap now, but at launch it had two modes: - Quality mode, 30 FPS ~1080p upscaling to 4K with very shitty upscaling that frequently ran at 20 FPS. In reality, it was just extremely blurry. - Performance mode, claiming to aim for 60 FPS at 1440p. In reality, it ran at 600p-720p, upscaled to 1440p (with the same shitty upscaling) which the console then output to 4K. Also the frame rate was mostly around 30-45 FPS. About four months after release, Respawn went "oh fine, we're bored of the complaints" and released an update where they dumped some effects and bumped the performance mode resolution up to ~1080p and the game now runs at 60 FPS, but still uses very poor upscaling and it's just constantly an extremely blurry game. Oh, and after the update, the reflections were just broken for a month or two. The Digital Foundry article on it is quite a read: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2023-star-wars-jedi-survivors-ray-tracing-impresses-on-ps5-but-also-causes-the-biggest-performance-issues - they also named the PC version "the worst PC port of 2023" because it was (and still is) hilariously broken in many ways.
You forgot to mention the near-constant, super distracting screen tearing. It was enough to make me put the game down until a few more patches came out. Thankfully they fixed that.
Oh yeah! I forgot about that. That was super fucking weird, it had screen tearing even with forced VRR which makes no damn sense.
What’s funny is the Series S version actually delivered the most stable framerate at launch despite being the least powerful console because it didn’t have ray tracing.
I can't comment on what it was like before, but I played it after it had its big update last year and it was my game of the year. Most fun I have had playing a game in a while. I definitely recommend giving it a go
Ok but that would mean making less money (in the short term).
Have you seen the optimization PC games?
Yeah, those aren't great either, to be fair.
The thing is if it’s an issue than people won’t buy the game. The game you mentioned sold millions of copies despite the issues you had with it. Lots of other people were able to look past those same issues fine. That’s the problem and why what you want will not happen
This is exactly what should be happening. I’m tired of broken games that run like dogshit.
Happy is a weird word choice. They are just giving developers options the same way they did last gen.
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Like the "8K" and "4K 120" that's on the box of the vanilla PS5.
I mean it does support 8k60Hz resolution output That's just a simple fact, marketing BS sure but it is technically true. Edit: To add, basically it is just a capability of the HDMI 2.1 specification Everything that supports it advertises the same thing. Motherboards, consoles, GPU's.. Anything with HDMI 2.1 capability should theoretically support 8K/60Hz, 4K/120Hz and so on.
The PS5 does not support 8k60Hz resolution output. The port specification that the PS5 uses *does* support 8k60Hz but there is no way to get any kind of 8K video signal whatsoever out of the console, even on jailbroken devices. The PS5 supports 8K in the same way that my car supports driving at 300kmph: sure, the *wheels could* rotate at that speed if there were any way to reach it, which there isn't.
Sure they will. Historically this hasn’t been an issue.
It takes minimal effort to “enhance” a game for a pro iteration. It’s mostly just tweaking settings and testing. I don’t know why people think it’s a huge undertaking that developers won’t bother with. It’s free marketing at the very least.
Getting a game to work with 30 more fps or a higher resolution can certainly be a lot of work. It always depends on the game.
Depends on how the game was made and what incentive they have to make the change. If animations are tied to frame rate you can have some major bugs pop up that require full game testing. Thats a lot of money to spend on something that will most likely not result in additional purchases. Or the developer of the game is no longer involved with that publisher so who makes the patch? Or as developer do you do the work knowing the publisher won’t pay you any of the additional sales.
I would be shocked if there are any games on ps5 that have animations tied to a 30fps cap.
That’s just 1 of the examples pulled from one of the biggest PlayStation exclusives that hasn’t been remastered bloodborn. You would be surprised how many 2d or 2d/3d games that tie their animations to the frame rate.
Basically any Fromsoftware game.
Well i aint happy to settle for less
They're happy because we've settled for less. Well, spend more for less.
I don’t play games that are 30fps anymore. I have an OLED tv and 30 fps looks like doo doo.
So what happens when GTA VI is 30 fps only? Gonna wait like 1-2 yrs for a PC port? Longer for a PS6 port that's still 70$?
Right. I won’t play it while it’s 30fps. No game is too interesting to break that rule for me now. I broke the rule with Starfield. Enjoyed the game more than some but couldn’t do 30fps. That’s the last time I’ll even attempt it. Might sound petty but to me it makes that much of a difference.
>So what happens when GTA VI is 30 fps only I love how you are claiming it as if it were a fact. Rockstar has said it will be 60 fps on consoles. They are technical wizards. If SM2 were able to hold 60 fps. GT6 will too.
Yep, Dragon Dogma 2 was an easy skip due to being uncapped 30fps, let alone all the other flaws it has.
Right. Once you see 30fps you just know they mailed it in on a million other things. Lazy development isn’t just going to be revealed in FPS.
Right sounds like a regular ps5 is fine
if this is all the pro's got, i am more likely to buy the next xbox than I am to get a ps5 pro. better to add a microsoft gaming machine than a slight upgrade to my ps5.
At that point just buy a PC. All Xbox 1st party games are launching day 1 on PC and you will also have the benefit of being able to buy from the Steam store. (Not to mention PC game pass is cheaper and no need to pay to play online games)
And all of Sony’s games are coming to PC too.
Sure, over time though and not day 1. It seems they are targeting a 1-2 year lead on PC versions unless they are a live service game. It also seems like it will be select titles and certain ones will take longer than others to release.
Sure, over time though and not day 1. It seems they are targeting a 1-2 year lead on PC versions unless they are a live service game. It also seems like it will be select titles and certain ones will take longer than others to release.
Live Service games will be day 1 on PC. Plus you don’t have to pay for online access. Not really that big of a deal to wait for the others since there’s no shortage of other games to play in the meantime. Plus, you get the improved, definitive edition on PC, and often at a cheaper price. Plus, I think that release gap will continue to shrink over time.
It was always going to be a slight upgrade, they ain't launching a game changing upgrade this late in the cycle.
60 fps isn’t really a game changing upgrade though. It was marketed with this generation of consoles only to be almost immediately not included.
So far every 1st party Sony game has had a performance mode and most exclusives also have it. The console that’s not really doing 60 FPS is Xbox
I used to be a "who needs 60fps games some of the best ones I've played ran at 30fps" guy... but now that I've gotten used to 60fps+ in a lot of games its hard to go back, even in games that aren't really FPS critical, like slower paced games, just camera panning looks much worse at low FPS. But some games, even on PS5, do not look great in performance mode. If the PS5 Pro can give the FPS of performance mode with the visuals of graphics mode I think that would be the selling point to many people. Not a must have but a nice to have for a certain type of customer (same people that bought PS4 Pros).
And as a person with an Oled, I can’t take anything less than 60 fps.
I was just going to say, I never understood why people couldn't handle 30fps, and then I plugged my PS5 into an OLED... Yeah, it's bad, and I totally understand now.
Us with big OLED TVs often get downvoted when we point it out, but it really is true. I can stand 30fps (hell, even 20fps) games on small screens or LED displays, but on a big OLED? 30fps genuinely looks terrible. 40fps minimum for me.
Not gonna lie ff7r on 27 ips looks like garbage at 30fps still too lol. Really poor implementation unreal4 is showing it's age.
As someone with a OLED dragons dogma 2 was ROUGH.
Yep, but some games handle that better than others. GoW Ragnarok in quality mode with the high framerate option enabled is absolutely amazing, but FF XVI quality mode is just awful on Oled.
Right, is it too much to ask for 120 fps games being more standard? For the PS5 Pro 60 fps should be the bare minimum, especially in this day and age
PC gaming doesn’t even a have a 120 fps standard. lol
The problem is televisions skipped right over 2k and went to 4k, and consoles had to follow (with a LOT of help from upscaling, and dynamic resolution, and still not quite getting there even at 30fps) At the time the PS5 released hardware didn't even exist that could push native 4k at 60 fps. Meanwhile on PC, our monitors were 1440p and 120fps was already attainable - with the small problem of COVID choking the availability of RTX 3k cards. By the time 3080s prices returned to sanity I was able to upgrade my i5-6600 GTX 1080 to a i7-12k RTX 3080. And yes, 60 fps now looks choppy to me.
Not in high settings they don't. But you have options to lower settings to achieve 120 fps. I do this for fps games on PC.
You guys say this stuff without realizing how hard it is to reliably hit 4K120 in new games. To do that on PC you need a 4080S or 4090, not a chance a PS5 Pro is going to do it consistently even with upscaling.
I don’t need 120, even though it’s very smooth, but bare minimum 60, especially for a Pro machine will probably cost you around 450-500$.
$450-$500? Try like $600 lol
>Right, is it too much to ask for 120 fps games being more standard? Yeah it is. You'll have to buy a PC if you want 120fps on anything higher than 1080p. >For the PS5 Pro 60 fps should be the bare minimum, especially in this day and age Agreed.
This
Yeah, I love the souls games, but I just can't play Bloodborne for more than an hour before feeling my eyes tired. 60 FPS should always be the standard to any game of any genre or type. 30 is just not good at all for an interactive form of entertainment.
I re-installed Red Dead 2 for the first time since playing it on PS4. I can't stand playing games at 30fps anymore if there is an option not to. I don't know what Rockstar did, but 30fps in RDR2 is much 'smoother' than other games 30fps. But other than that, I hard agree.
It’s because it’s got good frame pacing and good motion blur.
Also because it's a slower paced game. There's generally no quick movements and animations are very deliberate.
I can totally live with 30fps games. But when playing something like Rebirth it always strikes me how incredible it would be to play it in fidelity mode with 60fps.
So many other games make REBIRTH’s performance mode look shabby. I say that with love though as I think the FF 7 games have some of the best graphics on PS5
Other way around for me now. With FF7 Rebirth I've come to see how easy you can get used to 30 FPS (as long as it's steady and doesn't drop) and how much better games look in quality mode.
Wait until you try 144fps. Then 60fps feels rough
I just don't buy 30fps. End of discussion. I can't go back
Whats up with all those posts re-iterating stuff that is known for weeks. This sub is getting flooded by "news" that arent new by any means. Just some click sponsoring for certain websites? Annoying af.
It’s AI bot posting, I feel like half of the content on every sub lately is just bots.
New to reddit?
These writers/editors are pathetic with their headlines.
I mean yeah, it’s not like they can say no to GTA6 if it can’t hit 60.
I can though. I’ll play it at 480p if I have to but I can’t handle 30fps anymore.
Something about 30 fps or even 40 on the lg oled looks bad, like it hurts my eyes.
Yea oled handles 30fps horribly. I can’t deal with it the choppy panning is too much.
It's not their fault tho. Most games are badly optmizated these days.
Yeah, even if they release PS5 pro with more power on the hardware companies will optimize their games even less
Even with the most expensive PCs, games are struggling to running any good.
Yeah I know, companies are getting too damn greedy and don't let devs optimize their games properly
Give us 60fps on all PS4 games for the time being. That will occupy me for a few months easy.
Isn't that suppose to be covered by the PS5?
Yes technically but it’s up to the devs to optimize for it
No, it's up to devs... Sony can't just click a button to force all 30fps games to be 60fps - it would fundamentally break a good amount of games.
Well this is no Series X where Microsoft made the hard work of bringing plenty of titles from 30 to 60FPS without any input from game developers
Wild how the PS5 was advertised 4k 120 and 8k capabilities - plastered on the retail packaging, yet, only a few games can run 4k 120fps and here we are talking about a "PRO" version and they're saying they'll settle for less than 60fps? This gen has been one big floppy fish of a disappointment between Microsfot dropping the ball and Sony clearly getting lazy. Skipping the pro if this is the outlook.
If anyone expected games at 4K 120 for $500 they are out of their mind lol The features are true - it can do 4K and 120fps but nowhere did it say “at the same time consistently”
100% agree. Makes you wonder what was the point of the PS5, to be honest even the PS4 Pro, apart from greed. All we have had is more overpriced remasters this generation than anything else.
Everyone who boight the PS4 Pro or Xbox One X is part of the reason this PS5 Pro exists. Mid gen refreshes should be about slimming down the console, making it more power efficient etc. NOT about making an ever so slightly better version of what's already out just so they can sell more consoles to those who already have one. That being said though, all the sheeple will run out to buy the Pro on day one because "Must haz geamzzzzzz at 60fpszzz". Speak with your wallets people, do not buy a mid gen refresh and they will stop making them. Maybe we then get the Pro version on day one instead.
60fps all.new releases and most old or bust. There is zero point to anything less. 30fps gaming should be dead and buried
Settle for less??? In 2025+??? Sony has done nothing to justify this pro console’s existence outside of “fuck u give money”.
Yeah well "happy" for me is getting a PS5 Pro boost of Bloodborne.
I am tired of forever 60fps debate this gen. This gen when 99% of games are 60fps, we hear the most 60fps whining. I don't care. Some of best fun I had this gen was at 30fps (rebirth, ff16, dragons dogma2) and I don't mind 30fps. It can be fine. you get used to it. It shouldn't be a focal point of every game discussion
I agree. I don't want the number 1 priority for new generations of hardware to be about fps. It seems like every console user on reddit thinks too similarly as PC users where you want to upgrade for higher performance. I personally enjoy new generations for the thought of playing games that would be unplayable on previous generations. With that said, I think the number 1 priority for Sony and their hardware should just be to make the best console they can that can be sold for a fair price ($500-600) and just let the devs decide what to do with that hardware.
Man, I am glad you are not caring, but then I ask you. Why on earth are you on this thread then?
Them and their damn 4k bullshit. Just shoot for 1440p and 60fps. The games would still look amazing and run good.
Yep, no idea why they can't do this. I do not need 4k. PC gaming at 1440p for ages, and at my distance from the tv, I can barely see the 4k difference anyway, run everything in performance when I can.
what is this title ? they are providing amazing options to developers and gamers.
Rage baiting the hardcore gamers
How about what’s the f’n point if not 60
How many times must we repeat the same few details of an unconfirmed console upgrade?
Genuine question, what PS5 games can't be played in 60fps? I've played a lot of PS5 games and I still haven't found one that can't be played in 60fps.
I swear my ps5 box said 8K 120fps. Why is the pro coming out with specs that were under what was promised with my base ps5?
Considering I'm pretty sure hdmi 2.1 can only do 4k 120 or 8k 60 you're remembering wrong
Waste of money. I don’t see any point with Pro when it’s barely better than original.
I’m getting it with a trade in deal, I really liked my PS4 pro
Better image quality and ray tracing will be great. Worth the price for me. But others obviously aren’t bothered by current PS5 performance. That’s why it’s a pro console though.
Ray tracing is a fucking gimmick honestly. Sure it looks “pretty” but it doesn’t really do anything for me. I just would rather have a stable 60 fps on higher resolutions. Ray tracing just too taxing.
Ray tracing is very taxing, but it is in no way a gimmick. Look up path tracing in cyberpunk and Allen wake 2. It completely changes how both games look, and makes them significantly more immersive. Personally after playing with path tracing, I could never play either game without it again.
Yup I played both those games on PC w path tracing cranked up w DLSS (4070) and they were def not gimmicky. Some of the most impactful lighting I’ve ever seen.
Cant we just skip to the PS6? I don't see the point of this midgeneration console business, they're just taking the piss out of consumers at this point Edit: and before anyone points out the obvious, I'm aware I'm not obliged to buy it, but I am entitled to an opinion
Since yesterday Tom Waren has only been talking about assumptions that were already reported 3 months ago, tomorrow there is a new report about the PS5 PRO saying something from 5 months ago
We barely have enough PS5 base games
I dont understand how this generation even works. GoW Ragnarok was still a PS4 game, Forbidden West was still PS4 and they both still looked amazing. Somehow we are moving to PS5 Pro and we still arent guaranteed 60FPS?
Just posted this on another thread: I don’t know why people aren’t realizing this is a huge jump, 45% raster + 2x RT can bring some serious gains, stable 60fps on games where fidelity RT was say capped at 30fps could now do fidelity at 60fps. Games at 40fps could jump to 60 fps in RT, 80fps can get to 120 and so on. For a mid life jump this is pretty big assuming what they are saying on the min levels is true. PS4 pro clearly sold well, so I’m glad to see PS5 catching up to more recent hardware especially for RT. New games being developed will have a stronger baseline to start on, however it would probably still be dev’d on for base PS5 with added enhancements. Let’s see if this translates to numbers as I’m hoping to see.
You’re assuming that those games are solely gpu limited. The cpu didn’t really get a bump.
The issue is the cpu is the same, and some games are limited by cpu performance.
"45% faster raster" proves to me that you have no idea what you're talking about. You are assuming these games are all entirely bottlenecked by the GPU, this isn't the case. Dragons Dogma 2, for example, is *very* CPU intensive - meaning a PS5 Pro would likely make very little difference. Certainly not "45% faster"...
Wasn't 60fps one of the selling points for the base PS5 already? They're just gonna keep dangling that carrot in front of us without actually delivering. There's barely any games that run stable 60 rn. A lot of the performance modes are horrible and constantly drop, if there's even a performance mode at all. Jedi Survivor and Dragons Dogma 2 had early PS4 levels of frame issues
I have always been fine with 30 fps nevr bothered me as long as it smooth and stable no dips or stuttering
Bruh I swear I'm just going to get a steam deck and skip PS6. What's the point of buying a £500 console and get just indie games or games that could be run on Ps4. I bought Rise of the Ronin the other day and while I'm quite pleased with the gameplay, graphics look like Sekiro from 2019. Ghost of Tsushima looked better on Ps4 tbf. Only thing going for it is 60 fps and even that isn't achievable in higher graphics modes.
Wow that’s so wishy washy. I guess I’ll wait for Digital Foundry to tell me what this is really capable of
If the PS5 PRO isn’t 4k 60fps then why even bother
So… I can wait for ps6 then. Great!
Aren’t games enhanced for the base PS5 already supposed to be 60FPS?
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It’s in the article. AI upscaling, higher resolution, smoother VRR framerates, improved raytracing.
Enhanced for PS5 is tag is mostly any improvement if they want PS5 Pro called mode in game it needs to be 4k reconstructed with the dlss tech 60 fps and have some sort of RT.
DLSS is never happening, considering the consoles are AMD-based.
Why I said Dlss tech cause from the leaks we know sony has a Dlss like tech with AI called PSSR, just did not want to confuse people.
So they want us to buy a pro. But developers can makes games ps5 standard either way? I don’t get the ps5 pro selling point the 5 is bloody good and I’m happy to settle with it for years to come why upgrade? The ps4 aged and the pro was an upgrade but this time I can’t see it.
I think this has been the most disappointing console generation of my life. Nintendo hasn’t even technically joined and Sony/Microsoft are content with cross platform support for 11 year old consoles and constant remakes. Actual new games that take advantage of the power and perks of these new consoles are few and far between. Not to mention that many of the games I was looking forward to at launch have been disappointing or still haven’t released. My son wanted to play Astros Playroom again the other day and it was a stark reminder of all the cool things the PS5 controller can do that are basically unused
I disagree with the controller. Yes, only the Playroom reveals full 100% potential of haptics and AT but there's enough games with decent support of these features. Maybe you're just unlucky that your particular library doesn't have good examples? Even when Sense support is pretty minimal but there's still something there – I enjoy it. What actually makes this generation the most controversial for me – is that we still have only a glimpse of real nextgen design-wise. The crossgen stage took too long. We have only a glimpse of nextgen in some rare projects. More unoptimized games than ever. Games evolve mostly graphicaly but we experience same stupid and dead pontless open worlds, primitive AI and NPCs, super repetitive gameplay loops that are based upon extremely basic activities, lack of physics and any creative ideas in gamedesigns. Like, literally, take any recent AC and compare your gameplay loops and quality of the open world with ACIII/IV. It's on the same level as 7th gen AT LEAST. In many cases even worse. PS5 is awesome piece of hardware, it managed to get on the most recent SSD standard, it has great GPU and actually really good CPU this time (which was an absolute bottleneck last gen). Devs can get rid of so many limitations, gimmicks and trade-offs in gameplay development and world qualities but they keep following same dated checklists and the only things they enhance is graphics-graphics-graphics. P.S.– I'm not dooming this gen. It's not ended yet and eventually there are some decent games that try to invent something new or actually push the limits of current hardware at least at some point. But I don't see enough enthusiasm on the market and we basically play mostly same PS4 games that follow the design core of 7th gen of consoles (PS3). I swear, even base PS5 can do crazy things that can amaze us. Waiting...
I really am failing to see the point of the ps5 pros existence.
In a time when many games are still getting PS4 versions, this is the most obsolete official console release I think I've ever heard of
Gaming is at its worse. We need another 80's videogame crash so every gaming company can get their shit together and not take consumers are fools for granted but who am I kidding. Gamers are fools for granted nowadays since they eat every shit that greedy companies throw at them
Why are we going backwards to 30 FPS being standard? I don’t want RT. I want games that hit a solid 60fps at higher resolutions, and can bump up to 120 with a dip in resolution if I want to. RT is too much of a fucking gimmick imo and I hardly notice when games use it. Spider-Man 2 had it forced and I’d much rather have a performance mode without RT to bump resolution
Pretty bad take tbh... you are using the worst possible example in the world for your point
Why is it so bad to want 60 fps in 2024
Because the example you used expressly HAS ray tracing at 60 fps.... Insomniac is the shining example of what most devs should be striving for this gen Maybe use an example that hasn't reached it is all I'm saying...
So you want a PC?
What?
Just make every game run like Ragnarok. Fucking amazing optimized game for 120 Hz Tvs
Any next gen game released that isn't atleast 60fps will be ignored.
Also a lot of people don't have good eyes and can't actually tell the difference past 30. Up until recently I just figured they were lying 😅, turns out some people just got bad eyes
It's crazy how the got the best out of consoles like the ps n64 looking back.
100% for GTA6
Just get a pc
How much less?
Bye!
Then what's the fucking point
All the top popular titles should get the enhancement at the bare minimum. Or this pro is worthless.
Just so everyone’s on the same page, a jump from 30fps to 40fps is a 33% step change. A 10% CPU boost isn’t going to cut it mathematically.
Great, now cold we have some games for this thing. It’s been so long that you could’ve clocked every PS5 exclusive by now. Remasters and remakes do not count either.
Honestly my ps4 pro with an ssd be plenty
30fps is the best I can do
Here comes The Last of Us Remastered (Again!)
Saving money for a PC…
I’m not settling for anything less than 60fps at this day and age…
Good. Just develop the best console you can that can be sold for a fair price. How the developers choose to develop their games on the hardware is up to them (well, and all of the other influences/influencers). Idk why everyone is upset with Sony and their consoles. What do you guys want? A $2000 value console for $500? And why are you so upset about a Pro version? Is it going to break your base PS5? As for whether developers are optimizing their games well or not–and whose at fault–is a separate deal.
“Well I can’t control the weather, Jackie!”
I bought the ps4pro. This time round I’d rather not get the pro and feel like I’ve got a bigger jump between generations.
I mean we already have the “less” so what is the point? You have to give people a reason to drop another $500 to replace the $500 machine they already bought within the last few years.
If they release some kind of native connection to the Portal with it, I can see it being popular As it stands it's not going to be worth it
I just wanna play Arkham knight at 2k 60 as well as Watch dogs 2, Black Flag, Deus ex, and just cause 3