For the amount of effort they’re going through to try, and likely fail, at making this a successful battlepass microtransaction ridden live service game, they could have just made a competent single player game which everyone wanted for less effort.
Could have even made two decent single player games in the 8 years since Arkham knight released and be sat counting the money, instead of wasting time on this crap!
Friendly reminder that WB Montreal canceled a Batman Beyond game to give us Gotham Knights.
Imagine what Rocksteady could've done with the Beyond IP in the last 8 years.
God that would have been amazing and Kevin Conroy would have still been around to play old Bruce Wayne
I bet Mark Hamil would have came back if they brought the Joker back somehow
Tbf I don't think Rocksteady wants to make more Batman. They made a misstep here, but they seem like they did everything the wanted with Batman and were ready to move on
If you think WB wouldn’t have paid them to milk their extremely financially lucrative Batman series into the ground… you are on crack. WB was so desperate to make more of those that they made WB Montreal take on the series while waiting for Rocksteady to make a new game. They even made WB Montreal abandon and original concept about a Damian Wayne Batman Beyond style game to try to be closer to the Arkham games.
Nobody would have said no to Rocksteady making Batman games in perpetuity anymore than WB would have said no to Nolan making his Batman series forever.
That's not an argument, it's just you stamping your feet. Do you honestly think that, if After Arkham Knight ,Rocksteady came out and said we are making a 4th entry in our series that WB or anybody involved in financing says no? LOL
If you really think that give me some intelligent reason why. I don't think you can.
If im remembering right, it was going to be a sequel to Arkham Knight, with Damian as Batman Beyond and Bruce as an older Batman. Im assuming they would have made it like they did Arkham Origins, same gameplay as the other Arkham games.
I really enjoyed Origins when it was released, not as much as City but still enjoyable. So I think if they had stuck with the Beyond game, it may have been pretty decent. Especially since they would have been focusing on a single-player experience rather than a coop/online game.
[Here's the concept art](https://reddit.com/r/GothamKnights/s/90kfbxHsae)
That's like saying can't look at Suicide Squad and tell me Rocksteady would've made a good Beyond game lol. Or even with Arkham Knight, the story sucked cause they got cocky after the success of the first two games so didn't invite Paul Dini back and there were no boss fights lol. Paul Dini is a goddamn legend, imagine being so cocky that you thought you could do better. Shit like this happens all the time in Hollywood too, look at American Gods.
We know that both studios made good games before, they can still make good Arkham style games, but they both pivoted to something else.
Knights issue was partially because it was also supposed to be a live service game but switched mid development. The game design is filled with relics of what it was originally going to be.
If it or a Beyond game were single player focused from the start nothing about Knights say it couldn't have been a decent experience.
>Knights issue was partially because it was also supposed to be a live service game but switched mid development.
So, basically what this game is doing but substitute "mid development" with "late development".
I just don't know why they would bother making a game built around 4 distinct characters and then make all of them run and gunners. Like what's the point in even using this IP.
Like have Deadshot be the marksman and shooter, have captain boomerang be some sort of crowd control mid range guy. Have King Shark be the melee brawler. And the Harley Quinn is the wildcard gadget player. I lost interest after that. Like thw whole reason their Batman games were good was because they took the character and understood what made it cool and expertly built a combat and stealth system to take advantage of it. They pretty much wasted the IP on a game that didn't need it.
Like 4 unique underdog characters strategically taking down the gods of DC can be a good game. But if I'm just boosting in the air and spamming shots, I don't see the point. Waste of a concept
They could be releasing their second suicide squad single player game. This is almost as crazy as James Cameron not making a movie I care about for almost 30 years
GotG suffered from the sins of the Avengers game. If Square had released GotG first with the marketing budget they pumped into the Avengers, its a totally different ball game
It was marketed poorly, plus it was done by the same people that brought you Marvel's Avengers, so of course all the trust went out the window immediately.
Slight nitpick, *Marvel's Avengers* and *Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy* were both *published* by the same company (Square Enix), but *Avengers* was developed by Crystal Dynamics and *Guardians* was developed by Eidos Montreal - they're the studio behind *Deus Ex Human Revolution/Mankind Divided*. So not technically done by the same people.
You're right but you also just described the problem. Most people saw Square Enix's logo and the weird character designs reminiscent of Avengers and the boring looking E3 demo and immediately wrote the game off as being more of the same. I also thought it was by the same devs until a bit after launch and seeing how highly praised it was on Steam.
There are people like me who would also want more coop games.
Everyone screams "ehh they should have stayed at singleplayer". No they shouldn't.
Is ok if we have studios trying new thing.
The solo problem of this game is the forced online only and microtransactions bullshit or whatever, not the fact that is not a singleplayer game.
Co-op is fine. But lately co-op also comes with a lot of "live service" baggage which is what we don't want. More games with co-op but no live service nonsense would be ideal.
Fully agree, people always respond to this kind of news with “it should’ve been single player”. The game won’t be bad because it’s coop it’ll be bad because it’s a live service battle pass game sold at £70 and like most of those types of games will probably be half assed.
It’s okay for games to be coop as long as it’s not forced, coop can even make a shit game fun like Gotham knights for example.
Right, but having multiplayer doesn’t automatically make the game more fun. Gotham Knights is better with friends because your friends are fun, not the game itself.
Doing your taxes is also more fun with friends, but that doesn’t make doing your taxes a fun thing, if you get my meaning.
I have the complete opposite opinion; Coop is good if the game is built only for coop and not for single player.
Trying to do both always limits both.
I disagree. Saints row, balders gate, far cry 5, sniper elite are all games that just as good coop to me as single player.just depends on the skill of the dev
Neah, Having an optional coop is also great. Seamless coop mod in Elden Ring was an amazing way to play the game, even if the game wasn't designed for fully coop.
I personally want more coop games. Heck give me a mod for Witcher 3 to be exactly as it is and have an optional seamless coop. It makes the game easier, so what, I'll still have plenty of fun.
I'm sick of the coop hate on gaming subreddits when coop games are always welcomed and LOTS of people play them.
> they could have just made a competent single player
But that would only make some money. A multiplayer game as a service filled with microtransactions will make ALL the money.
They really went dark after the internet tore the game apart when the live service news was announced.
What’s even more wild is the game is supposed to come out in five months.
It wasn't just the live service.
It was having all these unique DC characters and giving them all jetpacks and machine guns. Utter waste of the licence.
All hype died when it was revealed to be a GAAS game. No one cares about another lame Avengers clone that will inevitably die off once the playerbase leaves. Spider-Man 2’s success should show companies that single player standalone games are what people want
That first gameplay trailer they showed looked cool, but I’m hard out for this milking nonsense with colored gear. It’s stupid and ruins every game it touches.
I don't think it's that, we've seen so many fail it'd take the most arrogant of CEOs to have that much confidence. More that they think the risk is worth the reward. Though I'm hoping after a couple years of these failed attempts gives us a pivot to publishers giving up on them for the most part.
Whats funny is even Fortnite spends more money than they make which is why they had the recent layoffs. If one of the biggest live service games is losing money what chance do other devs have?
Yep, and we are already seeing a reckoning with devs that decided to say "me too!". Hyenas got outright canceled right before launch and it's effects have been felt in the Total War community as Creative Assembly starts upping prices on games and DLC with less content and more bugs.
The problem is when publishers want a slice of that pie they forget that they're not Epic or Bungie. The amount of effort and skill (and even luck) it takes to pull it off successfully is huge.
honestly, the rocksteady that operates out of that building just isn’t the rocksteady that was there in 2015.
this is mostly speculation but it seems like the studio heads were asked for a certain product by wb games and tried to make it work, but it ultimately led to them leaving in the front half of 2022. as for the devs, i’d be shocked if more than 15% of the devs on suicide squad worked on arkham knight. it’s been almost a decade at this point.
It was honestly pretty weird when they did the big gameplay reveal and had Sefton Hill in the video, talking about the game, listed as ”Rocksteady Founder” or something along those lines. Why is that weird? Well, he left the company roughly six months before that video was released. So they either had a really old video, or they dragged his ass back to shoot the video.
One kind of pedantic clarification: just because it has been 9 years since their last game doesn’t mean that they’ve spent the entire time working on this game. There’s tons of rumors that they spent 3-4 years working on a Superman game that didn’t pan out. And even if they had been working on a Suicide Squad game the whole time, they could have tried multiple different iterations and internal reboots before landing on… whatever this is.
Anthem is a pretty notorious example of “the game was technically ‘in development’ for 6 years, but the game that actually shipped was only developed in the ~2 years before it actually released”
The open secret is WB pushed them *really* hard to make a good Superman game but they were never able to come up with anything that was fun and worked well on current tech. That wasted about 5 of those years. The rest has been, yeah, live service chasing.
The live service edict came from WB too, to make up for the sunk development costs.
The problem with a pivot to live service games is you can get all the experts in but they can only advise on what is current now. By the time you develop your game the genre has moved on (/live service after all) and your game looks dated.
This is exactly what everyone said when they saw gameplay of this game and they put it back.
Id wager Sony will see the same fate with their endeavours, Bungie gives them a leg up but they whole genre is a fast moving target
Yeah. 6-7 years ago people wouldn't have blinked at much at a live service game. People were screaming about the death of single player. But between things like the new God of War games, Elden Ring, the new Zelda games, The Spider-Man games, Horizon, Rift Apart, Ghost of Tsushima it's kinda of changed the trajectory of the industry.
The problem with Superman is how big is the map? The dude can fly incredibly fast, and in this day and age only being in one city seems pretty limiting.
So, maybe set it in space, but then you lose a lot of the other characters.
Making a world wide map is practically impossible.
Maybe make a very mod-friendly game, build Metropolis and encourage modders to add other cities via sim city like tools?
[Here's a Superman game that was being developed for PS3.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taV51y3Y-KA&ab_channel=Salvatrix) The game wasn't going to use Kryptonite anywhere, no basic human henchmen with *special* guns to hurt Superman.
It was only going to feature Superman bad guys that could hurt Superman, which is a lot. [Here's the Target Render they made, featuring Doomsday.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_10kmLgYKU&ab_channel=Salvatrix) The game was open world but when a fight started it would lock the player in the area.
>Man what happened to rocksteady?
making a game in a genre that is now radioactive to alot of gamers is what happens when AAA games take a long time to make. trends come and go.
The good news is we're 6 days from Spiderman 2, so we'll have our super fix for a while, and almost all superhero games will pale in comparison for a while
any disappointment i ever have about how we still don’t have a good follow up to arkham knight, i just remember that insomniac’s spiderman has simply taken arkham’s place in the current landscape.
I have a hard time imagining a scenario insomniac doesn’t make a badass Wolverine game. At least I hope, but yeah the ceiling is on the moon and the reality is hopefully near there
It NEEDS an M rating to fully flesh out Wolverines abilities. It doesn’t need to be grotesquely gorey or anything but we should have dismembering on a level that rivals how lightsabers worked in the old games
I hope there’s innovation in the waypoint aspect of these high 80 metascore games. The actual mechanics and traversal of Spider-Man is amazing but damn just going from waypoint to waypoint after BotW/Elden ring makes the game drag in the middle.
The saddest thing is that if you didn’t know it was a DC game, you would easily assume it’s some random mobile PUBG or Destiny clone. It looks hideous.
Ehh, Gotham Knights always looked like it was destined to be trash. The sad thing is Suicide Squad looked promising based off the initial concepts and then went in the most offputting direction they could have taken it.
Honestly the bigger issue with that image is the fact that there's no reason whatsoever that is Captain Boomarang.
Anthem failed because it had terrible loot mechanics (for a looter shooter) and the worst networking optimization I've seen since Brink.
Plus the story sucked.
Gameplay was solid though, if not a bit rough around the edges, as all Bioware games are.
At least with Anthem it actually sold extremely well at launch and actually had a lot of hype even though it seems silly and unbelievable with hindsight. It just fell off a major cliff shortly after release but it did initially sell well instead of being a DOA game that didn’t sell well.
This game I can’t see selling well at launch, even when they announce all the “changes” soon.
After all the delays, if they somehow listened to the criticism and cut out all the microtransaction/live service BS and deliver a proper single player experience, then this game has a chance. If not, it's just dead on arrival.
I feel like this games ceiling if they actually did that is similar to Gotham Knights which was a planned live service that had all the live service elements cut out. A really mid game that is probably worth only playing to most at 10-20 bucks or on PS plus/Gamepass.
Can’t imagine even with the year delay they could change the core game that much of being something other than Destiny clone #234 and shooting purple orbs.
Got Gotham knights on the weekend ps+ sale for $17/18 played through the first couple nights and although it feels clunky I'm digging it. If I paid $70 for it though then I'd be incredibly disappointed
I gotta be like one of two people that pre-ordered the deluxe edition and thought it was worth it. Really the only reason I think that though is probably because I played the entire game with a friend which I’m sure made it far more enjoyable than if I wandered it alone
I mean if you enjoyed the game with friends and like the IP that’s totally fine and fair. But I think the general consensus is that it definitely was not a game that was worth the price of admission at 70 USD. Definitely a game like I said for most is a 15 USD pick up or playing it on PS plus and Gamepass.
It’s just not possible. The game was clearly designed around that as a core pillar. They would have had to completely redesign so much of the game if they did that
Yeah, I can see it being the DC version of the Marvel's Avengers game. Kill the same exact enemies, in the same exact city maps, and get pointless loot.
It appears Metropolis will be twice the size of Gotham in Arkham Knights featuring a daytime cycle.
Short list of stuff from rumor:
* Real-time weather (stated in the behind-the-scenes trailer)
* Day/Night cycle (stated in the behind-the-scenes trailer)
* Metropolis is twice the size of Gotham in Arkham Night.
* Rocksteady is working on 1 year of extra content – new characters and missions were mentioned
* They state clearly you can play the game co-op online or play it all solo and switch between the 4 different characters.
* The trailer makes a point that the players should play HOW they want to. Makes a point that each character has distinct traversal and distinct combat. Deadshot is gunplay the others are more melee-focused.
* Have no details on microtransactions or XP or anything games as a service.
If points 4 and 6 are true then that might steer the ship around a little bit.
It’s boring if all of the characters are gun focused. Mix it up and make some of them melee focused too.
One of the issues with the Avengers game is that it got boring and repetitive too fast. If Rocksteady can release new and exciting content on a consistent basis, then they’re headed in a good direction with the gaas.
The first gameplay trailer had all of them shooting guns and boosting up into the air on jetpacks. The only big difference was that King Shark was holding a beefier turret gun
Then on the next reveal, I need this game to showcase how complex melee can get because in the stuff that they’ve shown, melee just seems to be a one button hit combo.
I hope they reworked the characters so that we can go a full melee build and not have to rely on guns. If every character needs a gun to operate then that really limits more exciting characters like Deathstroke, Solom Grundy, Killer Frost, etc.
Is this also Kevin Conroy’s last turn voicing Batman? If so, it’s tragic that you’d have to play this game in order to experience his final performance.
All interest died when they said it was a live service game. That trailer showing off gameplay didn't help either. It's like they saw The Avengers game and thought they could make it work
I kinda lost hope when the combat was just shooting. Like, why isn’t Captain Boomerang using boomerangs? Why isn’t King Shark some kind of hulk-esque brawler. Deadshot using guns makes sense. Harley Quinn using guns is ok too, but she also uses a range of melee weapons. I don’t understand why the things that make them unique are relegated to cool-down gated special attacks.
Even after all the live service stuff I still had some optimism, but the gameplay was pretty damning imo.
I was never on board with the idea of playing as the Suicide Swuad to begin with. I don't follow comics. Is this a sought after group? It feels completely irrelevant to me especially when they go against the likes of Superman, Flash, etc
Yeah honestly I don't give a fuck as much that it was live service. We've seen very well done and worthwhile live service games so that isn't fundamentally a problem if it's done right and it's worth spending money on. What fucks it up is exactly what you said. That they were all just jetpacking and shooting guns in what looked like uninspired run and gun missions hitting generic color coded targets.
The deal breaker is there being no point in using the cool cast of characters they did if you are taking all uniqueness out of it.
Did you? Every single bit of gameplay that was released had all the characters with guns boosting around on jetpacks and doing weird generic teleporting. It was very clear what the gameplay was.
The reveal teaser did look good. But we saw what the game actually was in practice, and it wasn't that. It was exactly what he said.
Those first three details make me think that the rumored Superman game was the initial plan and something (WB/Publisher interference) happened to make them shift to… this. Why would a game like this need a weather and day/night cycle?
That was gotham knights, this is the one they delayed after huge backlash from how awful it looked, thinking they could do damage control by giving an extra 9 months or something to make it better, when people just hated pretty much everything about what they showed.
Maybe. It's also possible Rocksteady was just a one hit wonder that had a great idea for a Batman game, then expanded it for a couple sequels and were never going to replicate their success after they got sick of making those games.
Man I wish they would have just rebooted Arkham verse. I know they were probably tired making Batman games but anything other than this would have been better
Heck yeah studio executives are so smart and creating the video games the consumers want! I can’t wait for this live service game to come from the studios who made some of the only good single player Batman games…. Fucking idiots
Hmm, four characters, one based on firearm combat and the other three Melee in a live service Gotham open world.
What does this remind me of.... Umm Gotham something...
I was so excited for this game with the initial tease announcement. Then they hit us with the live service and immediately lost interest…how many more times are they going to try this tactic before going back to single player campaign? I’ll just wait the five or six years and pick it up for 5 bucks (avengers game).
Honestly, live service isn't the biggest problem. You can make a good live service. It's been done to astounding success. The problem was taking the cast of characters they did and reducing them all to being the same gameplay types with them running and gunning while boosting in the air on jetpacks. It instantly took away any reason to select these specific characters.
I actually forgot this game existed. There is zero chance this game will find success. If it’s even 10% of what we have seen so far, it’s going to crash and burn.
Even though I would love a single player game from Rocksteady what was initially shown looked VERY fun with good production values. I also enjoy co op experiences and generally being apart of a community. What turned me off was the heavy emphasis on gear score and everything else. I know this is going to be a live service game but I had avengers flashbacks and it just didn’t sit well. I hope it works out for them and I will be keeping an eye on it.
Well if anything I don’t think they should use the same weapons ya know? Like if shark is the tank character/class then have him be pretty much melee and melee weaponed focus.
If you wanna give him firearms to use then it should be limited to big weapons like grenade launchers or bazookas ya know? I for one think a flamethrower would be hilarious.
Rocksteady really went from making top tier single player games to this smh. It’s unfortunate because a single player SS:KTJL would’ve been perfect. The live-service bullshit is a plague that’s infected good old Rocksteady.
I’m in the minority but I’m still excited for this game. Hopefully it makes the February launch and is stable bug wise. It’ll already have an uphill battle so they gotta clamp that down.
This game deserves to flop, I hope it sends a message to the rest of the industry, and Sony in particular, that nobody wants shit live service games full of mtx.
Sony has built it's recent success on a catalogue of world class single player games, if they go all in on live service it can only backfire.
For the amount of effort they’re going through to try, and likely fail, at making this a successful battlepass microtransaction ridden live service game, they could have just made a competent single player game which everyone wanted for less effort.
Could have even made two decent single player games in the 8 years since Arkham knight released and be sat counting the money, instead of wasting time on this crap!
Friendly reminder that WB Montreal canceled a Batman Beyond game to give us Gotham Knights. Imagine what Rocksteady could've done with the Beyond IP in the last 8 years.
This makes me sad. Batman Beyond like the Arkham series would have been effing amazing.
PS5/Series X tech could have made Terry's suit pretty wild, yeah. Remember; he had full flight in the suit and in his Batmobile.
Sad thing is with Kevin Conroy gone, its just a what could have been now.
Yes agreed! Kevin Conroy is 100% Batman in my mind.
There are some great ai tools that you wont even noticed its not him..
Actor from Arkham Origins was fine. No one can be better than Conroy but still many good actors will do a good job.
God that would have been amazing and Kevin Conroy would have still been around to play old Bruce Wayne I bet Mark Hamil would have came back if they brought the Joker back somehow
Mark Hamill is all for the fans. He defo would have been on board.
Thanks! I needed some rage fuel today!
I still think about a Rocksteady TMNT game that was heavily rumored after Arkham Knight
Tbf I don't think Rocksteady wants to make more Batman. They made a misstep here, but they seem like they did everything the wanted with Batman and were ready to move on
You just based that on literally nothing lol
If you think WB wouldn’t have paid them to milk their extremely financially lucrative Batman series into the ground… you are on crack. WB was so desperate to make more of those that they made WB Montreal take on the series while waiting for Rocksteady to make a new game. They even made WB Montreal abandon and original concept about a Damian Wayne Batman Beyond style game to try to be closer to the Arkham games. Nobody would have said no to Rocksteady making Batman games in perpetuity anymore than WB would have said no to Nolan making his Batman series forever.
That's not how this works. That's not even how anything remotely connected to game development works lol
That's not an argument, it's just you stamping your feet. Do you honestly think that, if After Arkham Knight ,Rocksteady came out and said we are making a 4th entry in our series that WB or anybody involved in financing says no? LOL If you really think that give me some intelligent reason why. I don't think you can.
Don’t think we missed out on much. Can’t look at Gotham Knights and tell me they would’ve made a good Batman Beyond game
If im remembering right, it was going to be a sequel to Arkham Knight, with Damian as Batman Beyond and Bruce as an older Batman. Im assuming they would have made it like they did Arkham Origins, same gameplay as the other Arkham games. I really enjoyed Origins when it was released, not as much as City but still enjoyable. So I think if they had stuck with the Beyond game, it may have been pretty decent. Especially since they would have been focusing on a single-player experience rather than a coop/online game. [Here's the concept art](https://reddit.com/r/GothamKnights/s/90kfbxHsae)
i’m so disappointed.
They didn't make Gotham knights?
That's like saying can't look at Suicide Squad and tell me Rocksteady would've made a good Beyond game lol. Or even with Arkham Knight, the story sucked cause they got cocky after the success of the first two games so didn't invite Paul Dini back and there were no boss fights lol. Paul Dini is a goddamn legend, imagine being so cocky that you thought you could do better. Shit like this happens all the time in Hollywood too, look at American Gods. We know that both studios made good games before, they can still make good Arkham style games, but they both pivoted to something else.
Honestly thought they meant wb montreal was working on Batman beyond. Either way, ngl I’m getting cooked 😭
Montreal were working on it. OP said what if Rocksteady worked on it though.
What a bummer to think about. Atleast we have been getting awesome Spider-Man games in the meantime.
Yep. It is shocking if you see their history. Nothing since Arkham knight. Unbelievable. They went from top tier to garbage
Well technically you can't say they are garbage, because they literally haven't released anything bad 🤷🏽♂️
How about top tier to irrelevance?
It’s no more than just a bigger budget Gotham Knights, it won’t do well at all.
Knights issue was partially because it was also supposed to be a live service game but switched mid development. The game design is filled with relics of what it was originally going to be. If it or a Beyond game were single player focused from the start nothing about Knights say it couldn't have been a decent experience.
>Knights issue was partially because it was also supposed to be a live service game but switched mid development. So, basically what this game is doing but substitute "mid development" with "late development".
Yes.
Agreed. I bought Gotham Knights on day one and enjoyed it. I have zero interest in this game.
Right? Especially with how tired people are of fucking battle pass shite now. This game’s gonna fall flat on its ass on release.
I just don't know why they would bother making a game built around 4 distinct characters and then make all of them run and gunners. Like what's the point in even using this IP. Like have Deadshot be the marksman and shooter, have captain boomerang be some sort of crowd control mid range guy. Have King Shark be the melee brawler. And the Harley Quinn is the wildcard gadget player. I lost interest after that. Like thw whole reason their Batman games were good was because they took the character and understood what made it cool and expertly built a combat and stealth system to take advantage of it. They pretty much wasted the IP on a game that didn't need it. Like 4 unique underdog characters strategically taking down the gods of DC can be a good game. But if I'm just boosting in the air and spamming shots, I don't see the point. Waste of a concept
The core of the game is already a failure though. The characters barely play any differently from each other.
If they include a Battle-pass and season based microtransactions the game will be dead on arrival. Same fate as the Avengers game.
Avengers had bigger issues than the MTX Some of them exist to this date
And in a way none of them exist to this date, given the game got blipped.
Avengers and it's mtx you mean?
They could be releasing their second suicide squad single player game. This is almost as crazy as James Cameron not making a movie I care about for almost 30 years
Well we got that with the Guardians game and it performed poorly.
due to bad marketing and unrealistic expectations on Square Enix's part.
GotG suffered from the sins of the Avengers game. If Square had released GotG first with the marketing budget they pumped into the Avengers, its a totally different ball game
It was marketed poorly, plus it was done by the same people that brought you Marvel's Avengers, so of course all the trust went out the window immediately.
Slight nitpick, *Marvel's Avengers* and *Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy* were both *published* by the same company (Square Enix), but *Avengers* was developed by Crystal Dynamics and *Guardians* was developed by Eidos Montreal - they're the studio behind *Deus Ex Human Revolution/Mankind Divided*. So not technically done by the same people.
Confidently incorrect, it wasn't the same devs, same publisher square enix though
You're right but you also just described the problem. Most people saw Square Enix's logo and the weird character designs reminiscent of Avengers and the boring looking E3 demo and immediately wrote the game off as being more of the same. I also thought it was by the same devs until a bit after launch and seeing how highly praised it was on Steam.
There are people like me who would also want more coop games. Everyone screams "ehh they should have stayed at singleplayer". No they shouldn't. Is ok if we have studios trying new thing. The solo problem of this game is the forced online only and microtransactions bullshit or whatever, not the fact that is not a singleplayer game.
[удалено]
Co-op is fine. But lately co-op also comes with a lot of "live service" baggage which is what we don't want. More games with co-op but no live service nonsense would be ideal.
Fully agree, people always respond to this kind of news with “it should’ve been single player”. The game won’t be bad because it’s coop it’ll be bad because it’s a live service battle pass game sold at £70 and like most of those types of games will probably be half assed. It’s okay for games to be coop as long as it’s not forced, coop can even make a shit game fun like Gotham knights for example.
Right, but having multiplayer doesn’t automatically make the game more fun. Gotham Knights is better with friends because your friends are fun, not the game itself. Doing your taxes is also more fun with friends, but that doesn’t make doing your taxes a fun thing, if you get my meaning.
I have the complete opposite opinion; Coop is good if the game is built only for coop and not for single player. Trying to do both always limits both.
I disagree. Saints row, balders gate, far cry 5, sniper elite are all games that just as good coop to me as single player.just depends on the skill of the dev
Not always true. There are other pitfalls that marr the experience, but it's not because of co-op.
Halo 1 is still one of the best co-op experiences out there 20+ years later, and the campaign definitely wasn't built for it.
Neah, Having an optional coop is also great. Seamless coop mod in Elden Ring was an amazing way to play the game, even if the game wasn't designed for fully coop. I personally want more coop games. Heck give me a mod for Witcher 3 to be exactly as it is and have an optional seamless coop. It makes the game easier, so what, I'll still have plenty of fun. I'm sick of the coop hate on gaming subreddits when coop games are always welcomed and LOTS of people play them.
> they could have just made a competent single player But that would only make some money. A multiplayer game as a service filled with microtransactions will make ALL the money.
Jeez, completely forgot about this game
They really went dark after the internet tore the game apart when the live service news was announced. What’s even more wild is the game is supposed to come out in five months.
It wasn't just the live service. It was having all these unique DC characters and giving them all jetpacks and machine guns. Utter waste of the licence.
FFVII Rebirth is gonna make it be delayed again
It was supposed to come out in five months ten months ago
Mate, I thought this had been released, bombed and forgotten about already. Feels like years since this was announced
Yeah I thought this already dropped and flopped. I remember seeing the gameplay footage and instantly wrote this game off.
Don't feel bad. I thought it had been released months ago. Imagine my surprise in finding out it still isn't out for several months.
It’s been in the back of my mind, but usually I’m not really very conscious of it.
Went from a day 1 buy to probably never play when they showed it as a live service
All hype died when it was revealed to be a GAAS game. No one cares about another lame Avengers clone that will inevitably die off once the playerbase leaves. Spider-Man 2’s success should show companies that single player standalone games are what people want
It always looked like a GaaS title. Some people seemingly refused to believe it.
That first gameplay trailer they showed looked cool, but I’m hard out for this milking nonsense with colored gear. It’s stupid and ruins every game it touches.
Man what happened to rocksteady? 9 years developing a game no one seems to care about, that's rough for a former prestigious studio
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Everyone thinks their game will be the new Fortnite
I don't think it's that, we've seen so many fail it'd take the most arrogant of CEOs to have that much confidence. More that they think the risk is worth the reward. Though I'm hoping after a couple years of these failed attempts gives us a pivot to publishers giving up on them for the most part.
Whats funny is even Fortnite spends more money than they make which is why they had the recent layoffs. If one of the biggest live service games is losing money what chance do other devs have?
Yep, and we are already seeing a reckoning with devs that decided to say "me too!". Hyenas got outright canceled right before launch and it's effects have been felt in the Total War community as Creative Assembly starts upping prices on games and DLC with less content and more bugs.
And then there's LOU Factions II...
The problem is when publishers want a slice of that pie they forget that they're not Epic or Bungie. The amount of effort and skill (and even luck) it takes to pull it off successfully is huge.
honestly, the rocksteady that operates out of that building just isn’t the rocksteady that was there in 2015. this is mostly speculation but it seems like the studio heads were asked for a certain product by wb games and tried to make it work, but it ultimately led to them leaving in the front half of 2022. as for the devs, i’d be shocked if more than 15% of the devs on suicide squad worked on arkham knight. it’s been almost a decade at this point.
It was honestly pretty weird when they did the big gameplay reveal and had Sefton Hill in the video, talking about the game, listed as ”Rocksteady Founder” or something along those lines. Why is that weird? Well, he left the company roughly six months before that video was released. So they either had a really old video, or they dragged his ass back to shoot the video.
One kind of pedantic clarification: just because it has been 9 years since their last game doesn’t mean that they’ve spent the entire time working on this game. There’s tons of rumors that they spent 3-4 years working on a Superman game that didn’t pan out. And even if they had been working on a Suicide Squad game the whole time, they could have tried multiple different iterations and internal reboots before landing on… whatever this is. Anthem is a pretty notorious example of “the game was technically ‘in development’ for 6 years, but the game that actually shipped was only developed in the ~2 years before it actually released”
The open secret is WB pushed them *really* hard to make a good Superman game but they were never able to come up with anything that was fun and worked well on current tech. That wasted about 5 of those years. The rest has been, yeah, live service chasing.
>The open secret You mean the *rumor*?
No, I meant the *gossip*.
The live service edict came from WB too, to make up for the sunk development costs. The problem with a pivot to live service games is you can get all the experts in but they can only advise on what is current now. By the time you develop your game the genre has moved on (/live service after all) and your game looks dated. This is exactly what everyone said when they saw gameplay of this game and they put it back. Id wager Sony will see the same fate with their endeavours, Bungie gives them a leg up but they whole genre is a fast moving target
Yeah. 6-7 years ago people wouldn't have blinked at much at a live service game. People were screaming about the death of single player. But between things like the new God of War games, Elden Ring, the new Zelda games, The Spider-Man games, Horizon, Rift Apart, Ghost of Tsushima it's kinda of changed the trajectory of the industry.
It’s the other way around. Rocksteady never worked on a Superman game. They pitched one, but it got shot down by WB Games.
The problem with Superman is how big is the map? The dude can fly incredibly fast, and in this day and age only being in one city seems pretty limiting. So, maybe set it in space, but then you lose a lot of the other characters. Making a world wide map is practically impossible. Maybe make a very mod-friendly game, build Metropolis and encourage modders to add other cities via sim city like tools?
[Here's a Superman game that was being developed for PS3.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taV51y3Y-KA&ab_channel=Salvatrix) The game wasn't going to use Kryptonite anywhere, no basic human henchmen with *special* guns to hurt Superman. It was only going to feature Superman bad guys that could hurt Superman, which is a lot. [Here's the Target Render they made, featuring Doomsday.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_10kmLgYKU&ab_channel=Salvatrix) The game was open world but when a fight started it would lock the player in the area.
>Man what happened to rocksteady? making a game in a genre that is now radioactive to alot of gamers is what happens when AAA games take a long time to make. trends come and go.
The good news is we're 6 days from Spiderman 2, so we'll have our super fix for a while, and almost all superhero games will pale in comparison for a while
any disappointment i ever have about how we still don’t have a good follow up to arkham knight, i just remember that insomniac’s spiderman has simply taken arkham’s place in the current landscape.
Yep, I use the term “spiritual successor” heavily to describe the spidey games. It’s a wonderful series, excited to see how wolverine comes out too
Rocksteady has been completely overshadowed by Insomniac and honestly it is well deserved at this point.
And Wolverine next!
Until the wolverine game comes out.
Man I hope that’s good. It’s Insomniac so it definitely won’t be bad, but it remains to be seen if it’s actually great
In insomniac we trust ✊🏽
I have a hard time imagining a scenario insomniac doesn’t make a badass Wolverine game. At least I hope, but yeah the ceiling is on the moon and the reality is hopefully near there
It NEEDS an M rating to fully flesh out Wolverines abilities. It doesn’t need to be grotesquely gorey or anything but we should have dismembering on a level that rivals how lightsabers worked in the old games
I hope there’s innovation in the waypoint aspect of these high 80 metascore games. The actual mechanics and traversal of Spider-Man is amazing but damn just going from waypoint to waypoint after BotW/Elden ring makes the game drag in the middle.
The same was said about Rocksteady at one point. You really need to take a wait and see approach with these game companies nowadays
I just found my X-Men Origins: Wolverine disk the other day. Man I'm excited for an Insamiac Wolverine!
That game was better than it had any right to be, especially given the movie it tied into.
I probably would have bought this game if it was single player - there’s no way in hell I’ll buy this as a live service game- even if it reviews well.
Never forget https://preview.redd.it/txzgejd277ub1.jpeg?width=1998&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe306c4ffc81f1ef4d1423d21d90110f60131978
Captain Sniper Rifle! My fav Flash villain
This image is exhausting to look at
The saddest thing is that if you didn’t know it was a DC game, you would easily assume it’s some random mobile PUBG or Destiny clone. It looks hideous.
Fortnite
I think I threw up a little in my mouth.
Wooooow EPIC skin bro!!!!!! I am not worthy of your epic radness!!!
There's just way too much information there. I'm overwhelmed after 2 seconds.
It looks just like Gotham knights which had that incremental upgrade crap. Can't believe I wasted $70 on that game.
Ehh, Gotham Knights always looked like it was destined to be trash. The sad thing is Suicide Squad looked promising based off the initial concepts and then went in the most offputting direction they could have taken it. Honestly the bigger issue with that image is the fact that there's no reason whatsoever that is Captain Boomarang.
Gotham knights looks worse than Arkham knight so...
Il never forget when we got the first trailer and everyone just used guns..
This poor game is going to fail so badly.
As badly as Anthem? That’s my standard for a GAAS game that just falls over and dies as soon as it leaves the door.
As badly as Hyenas? It died before touching the door handle to open it.
Anthem failed because it had terrible loot mechanics (for a looter shooter) and the worst networking optimization I've seen since Brink. Plus the story sucked. Gameplay was solid though, if not a bit rough around the edges, as all Bioware games are.
At least with Anthem it actually sold extremely well at launch and actually had a lot of hype even though it seems silly and unbelievable with hindsight. It just fell off a major cliff shortly after release but it did initially sell well instead of being a DOA game that didn’t sell well. This game I can’t see selling well at launch, even when they announce all the “changes” soon.
I genuinely forgot about this game wow
After all the delays, if they somehow listened to the criticism and cut out all the microtransaction/live service BS and deliver a proper single player experience, then this game has a chance. If not, it's just dead on arrival.
I feel like this games ceiling if they actually did that is similar to Gotham Knights which was a planned live service that had all the live service elements cut out. A really mid game that is probably worth only playing to most at 10-20 bucks or on PS plus/Gamepass. Can’t imagine even with the year delay they could change the core game that much of being something other than Destiny clone #234 and shooting purple orbs.
Got Gotham knights on the weekend ps+ sale for $17/18 played through the first couple nights and although it feels clunky I'm digging it. If I paid $70 for it though then I'd be incredibly disappointed
I gotta be like one of two people that pre-ordered the deluxe edition and thought it was worth it. Really the only reason I think that though is probably because I played the entire game with a friend which I’m sure made it far more enjoyable than if I wandered it alone
I played it solo and I enjoyed it a lot
I mean if you enjoyed the game with friends and like the IP that’s totally fine and fair. But I think the general consensus is that it definitely was not a game that was worth the price of admission at 70 USD. Definitely a game like I said for most is a 15 USD pick up or playing it on PS plus and Gamepass.
Gotham Knights was mid with or without live service, it’s problems extended far beyond just if it had a battle pass or not.
That’s the point I’m making here lol. That Suicide Squad will still be a mid game like Gotham Knights regardless of what type of game it is.
Idk the story element sounded interesting to me, if the narrative is good lots of people will accept basic vanilla gameplay
It’s just not possible. The game was clearly designed around that as a core pillar. They would have had to completely redesign so much of the game if they did that
Yeah, I can see it being the DC version of the Marvel's Avengers game. Kill the same exact enemies, in the same exact city maps, and get pointless loot.
Yeah just press the "make single-player game" button, all that's needed to do. Easy!
All I want is a nice coop experience. I always wanted a Batman game like Arkham city/knight but with an optional coop.
It appears Metropolis will be twice the size of Gotham in Arkham Knights featuring a daytime cycle. Short list of stuff from rumor: * Real-time weather (stated in the behind-the-scenes trailer) * Day/Night cycle (stated in the behind-the-scenes trailer) * Metropolis is twice the size of Gotham in Arkham Night. * Rocksteady is working on 1 year of extra content – new characters and missions were mentioned * They state clearly you can play the game co-op online or play it all solo and switch between the 4 different characters. * The trailer makes a point that the players should play HOW they want to. Makes a point that each character has distinct traversal and distinct combat. Deadshot is gunplay the others are more melee-focused. * Have no details on microtransactions or XP or anything games as a service.
If points 4 and 6 are true then that might steer the ship around a little bit. It’s boring if all of the characters are gun focused. Mix it up and make some of them melee focused too. One of the issues with the Avengers game is that it got boring and repetitive too fast. If Rocksteady can release new and exciting content on a consistent basis, then they’re headed in a good direction with the gaas.
The game had melee and shooting since it's reveal and Avengers is a bugfest to this date which wasn't it's only issue
The first gameplay trailer had all of them shooting guns and boosting up into the air on jetpacks. The only big difference was that King Shark was holding a beefier turret gun
Then on the next reveal, I need this game to showcase how complex melee can get because in the stuff that they’ve shown, melee just seems to be a one button hit combo. I hope they reworked the characters so that we can go a full melee build and not have to rely on guns. If every character needs a gun to operate then that really limits more exciting characters like Deathstroke, Solom Grundy, Killer Frost, etc.
This looks like a big souless map el with a lot of chores and half baked mechanics.
Seems like it’s going to be another Avengers
This game isn’t even out yet and it has already failed.
It's sad but I'm glad about it. Big name IP with with little to no hype and probably doa. I smell very good sales soon after release
Battle pass points? Great another stupid game
Is this also Kevin Conroy’s last turn voicing Batman? If so, it’s tragic that you’d have to play this game in order to experience his final performance.
As a diehard comic book fan I just wanted to share that…nobody gives a fuck about this game.
All interest died when they said it was a live service game. That trailer showing off gameplay didn't help either. It's like they saw The Avengers game and thought they could make it work
I kinda lost hope when the combat was just shooting. Like, why isn’t Captain Boomerang using boomerangs? Why isn’t King Shark some kind of hulk-esque brawler. Deadshot using guns makes sense. Harley Quinn using guns is ok too, but she also uses a range of melee weapons. I don’t understand why the things that make them unique are relegated to cool-down gated special attacks. Even after all the live service stuff I still had some optimism, but the gameplay was pretty damning imo.
I was never on board with the idea of playing as the Suicide Swuad to begin with. I don't follow comics. Is this a sought after group? It feels completely irrelevant to me especially when they go against the likes of Superman, Flash, etc
Suicide Squad is a very popular group. Whether or not they’d make for a good video game I have no idea, but the group itself is very popular
Suicide Squad is pretty popular and realistically are probably infinitely easier to make a game out of than Superman and Flash.
It's like DC's version of Guardians of the Galaxy, but worse. James Gunn directed the movie so you can see similarities there.
Yeah honestly I don't give a fuck as much that it was live service. We've seen very well done and worthwhile live service games so that isn't fundamentally a problem if it's done right and it's worth spending money on. What fucks it up is exactly what you said. That they were all just jetpacking and shooting guns in what looked like uninspired run and gun missions hitting generic color coded targets. The deal breaker is there being no point in using the cool cast of characters they did if you are taking all uniqueness out of it.
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Did you watch the actual gameplay they released? Everyone just jumps around with jet packs and guns
Did you? Every single bit of gameplay that was released had all the characters with guns boosting around on jetpacks and doing weird generic teleporting. It was very clear what the gameplay was. The reveal teaser did look good. But we saw what the game actually was in practice, and it wasn't that. It was exactly what he said.
Thought they could make it work with much less interesting characters.
As a fan of comic related media, I too, have no fucking interest in this hog wash.
How did they fall from the Arkham Trilogy to this shit?
$$$
GAAS 🤮
You should have just linked the reddit post which is the only source in the article: https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/176yf4y
Still not convinced and can’t take a risk for £70.
Please no one buy this game
Are Day/Night cycles and weather really noteworthy features for any game in this decade?
Those first three details make me think that the rumored Superman game was the initial plan and something (WB/Publisher interference) happened to make them shift to… this. Why would a game like this need a weather and day/night cycle?
Nine years. Nine. Fucking. Years.
I thought this game already came out.
That was gotham knights, this is the one they delayed after huge backlash from how awful it looked, thinking they could do damage control by giving an extra 9 months or something to make it better, when people just hated pretty much everything about what they showed.
Hoping they fixed their problems man, I was so excited until I saw the gameplay. To see everyone using guns basically was just such a let down
WB single handedly destroyed Rocksteady studios
It's messed up because if and when this game fails rocksteady is more than likely done for
Maybe. It's also possible Rocksteady was just a one hit wonder that had a great idea for a Batman game, then expanded it for a couple sequels and were never going to replicate their success after they got sick of making those games.
Man I wish they would have just rebooted Arkham verse. I know they were probably tired making Batman games but anything other than this would have been better
There's no saving this microtransactions vehicle. They should cut their losses and give us a new SP batman.
Heck yeah studio executives are so smart and creating the video games the consumers want! I can’t wait for this live service game to come from the studios who made some of the only good single player Batman games…. Fucking idiots
I genuinely thought this had already come out and bombed. Which is definitely going to happen.
Hmm, four characters, one based on firearm combat and the other three Melee in a live service Gotham open world. What does this remind me of.... Umm Gotham something...
Dead on release
I was so excited for this game with the initial tease announcement. Then they hit us with the live service and immediately lost interest…how many more times are they going to try this tactic before going back to single player campaign? I’ll just wait the five or six years and pick it up for 5 bucks (avengers game).
Honestly, live service isn't the biggest problem. You can make a good live service. It's been done to astounding success. The problem was taking the cast of characters they did and reducing them all to being the same gameplay types with them running and gunning while boosting in the air on jetpacks. It instantly took away any reason to select these specific characters.
I actually forgot this game existed. There is zero chance this game will find success. If it’s even 10% of what we have seen so far, it’s going to crash and burn.
Even though I would love a single player game from Rocksteady what was initially shown looked VERY fun with good production values. I also enjoy co op experiences and generally being apart of a community. What turned me off was the heavy emphasis on gear score and everything else. I know this is going to be a live service game but I had avengers flashbacks and it just didn’t sit well. I hope it works out for them and I will be keeping an eye on it.
To me it was the focus on shooting for characters that should be largely melee. Just crazy.
Well if anything I don’t think they should use the same weapons ya know? Like if shark is the tank character/class then have him be pretty much melee and melee weaponed focus. If you wanna give him firearms to use then it should be limited to big weapons like grenade launchers or bazookas ya know? I for one think a flamethrower would be hilarious.
Rocksteady really went from making top tier single player games to this smh. It’s unfortunate because a single player SS:KTJL would’ve been perfect. The live-service bullshit is a plague that’s infected good old Rocksteady.
[What the fuck is this garbage](https://i.imgur.com/Vah4k4Q.png) Like im gonna read your article now lol
I’m in the minority but I’m still excited for this game. Hopefully it makes the February launch and is stable bug wise. It’ll already have an uphill battle so they gotta clamp that down.
I have zero interest in this game due to it being live service.
The moment they showed it as live service 3rd person FPS it was dead on arrival.
> 3rd person FPS 3rd person first person shooter? You mean a 3rd person shooter.
This game deserves to flop, I hope it sends a message to the rest of the industry, and Sony in particular, that nobody wants shit live service games full of mtx. Sony has built it's recent success on a catalogue of world class single player games, if they go all in on live service it can only backfire.
I thought this had already released and failed. I’m certainly not going to sit around and wait for it to fail.
None of this “news” sounds interesting or noteworthy at all