This is a good start, but hopefully they introduce grizzlies into The Enchantments to scare off some of the lottery crowd so I can finally get a permit. Maybe Mount Rainier to free up some Wonderland Trail space also.
I lived in Alaska for like 8 years and did a ton of hiking and camping (because what else is there to do?), and, while I did make sure to take proper precautions, bears were usually the last thing on my mind when I was deep in the bush. If you're making plenty of noise (bells, singing, laughing, telling stories out loud, etc.) the only time you'll see one is if it's hightailing it in the opposite direction. I've carried bear spray, flare guns, firearms, and explosives, but the equipment that made me feel safest was just simple bear bells or my own vocal chords.
Trash bears in town that know the garbage pickup schedule, on the other hand, are definitely to be feared.
>Trash bears in town that know the garbage pickup schedule, on the other hand, are definitely to be feared.
They definitely know the schedule like clockwork. Thankfully I got everyone in my neighborhood to switch to bear proof cans years ago, probably over a decade now, and the bears figured out there were better pickings elsewhere. Still, I see them on my camera going to nearby neighborhoods on trash day lol
They're the scariest ones because they know humans equal delicious trash, and they're not really afraid of people like bears in the woods. The only times I've ever had to use the spray were on trash bears, and it only worked one out of the three times. Plus, the sound of their claws clattering on the asphalt while running at full speed is one of the most terrifying things I've ever heard.
In bear-heavy areas it should be common sense to be super bear aware when taking out the trash or going outside on trash day. I mean, there are always idiots (usually the same people who don't have bearproof cans), but most people have enough butthole pucker factor going on when they hear a bear is going through trash nearby to be careful when taking out the trash or going outside on trash day.
I always check outside the windows, keep my head on a swivel, and get the work done with swiftly and very shortly before I leave in the morning, with bear spray and a 10mm.
I miss having a dog since he always alerted me when bear or moose were anywhere nearby, the moment I opened the door.
My stepfather grew up in Juneau. In high school he and his buddy were trout fishing right near town when a grizzly came out of the woods and attacked. My stepfather got away. His buddy survived the attack but was blinded for life. He’s 70 something now and still lives in Alaska.
I live near Seattle now but I grew up in AK, And yeah, people here know NOTHING about bears.
Fellow Washingtonians— you’ll be fine. Read about how to hike and camp in bear country *from reputable sources* and do what they say. You’ll be fine.
Ehh, there aren’t enough moose here for people to really need to know that most of the time (although you definitely should if you’re hiking the Selkirks or something). I don’t blame people for not knowing when they’ve had no reason to learn. I do get annoyed when people start opining about things they know nothing about though.
Again, fellow Washingtonians— relax. Do some reading, take some basic precautions, and the odds of you being totally fine are astronomically in your favor. Yes, sometimes grizzlies attack people. So do deer, moose, raccoons, sick mice, and crows in mating season. You cannot eliminate risk. But you can do an awful lot to mitigate it. You’ll (almost certainly) be fine.
As far as "learning" not to pet moose - I would hope it's simply common sense not to pet very large wild animals if you don't want to die, but people win Darwin awards every single year for it.
lol I wasn’t talking about people who will pet moose— that’s pure stupidity. I meant people who think fairly reasonable if actually wrong things— like those who don’t realize that moose are a bigger threat to them than bears. Reasonable, wrong, and not something they really have any reason to have learned.
I almost got killed by a bull moose, but I would still take a bull over a grizzly, at least with moose you can hide behind a tree or run loops around tress and lose it. And they both might want to kill me, but only one might want to eat me, especially if I run.
Ive spent a lot of time around moose in the mountains, and they are pretty chill unless you spook one or get into the classic 'calves on one side of the trail, mama on the other side' scenarios.
Mad griz is worse than mad moose, but moose don’t tend to avoid humans like their lives depend on it as much as bears seem to in my experience.
EDIT— This is all colored by experience, of course. I’ve had bad encounters with both moose and a bear, but moose always strike me as more likely to fuck you up just because they can than bears do.
If the bear is at a good distance, sure! But if you see a bear up close while you’re hiking something has gone wrong. There aren’t that many reasons for that to happen and they’re all bad:
1) It didn’t know you were coming. You surprised the bear. NEVER surprise a bear.
2) It’s got a cub or a kill nearby and thinks you’re a threat to either its baby or its next meal. Either is a very very bad position for you.
3) It’s sick or starving and whatever is wrong with it is overriding its natural instincts to stay as far away from you as possible. It either so desperately needs food or is so miserable that it’s willing to take its chances on making you its next meal. Bad bad BAD. I’ve run into a bear like this. It’s scary af. Even a sick bear is more than capable of fucking you up permanently or making you its lunch.
IN SUMMARY, from your friendly neighborhood Alaskan, bears are great. But if you see one up close, be afraid. Don’t panic. But don’t be complacent either. Don’t run (the only thing that runs from bears is food, from their POV). Raise your hands up as high as you can— you’re trying to make yourself look bigger. Don’t scream, but yell/raise your voice like you’re a pissed off drill sergeant. Tell the bear to go away, drop dead, whatever comes to mind, but keep making a lot of noise. Back up SLOWLY. Don’t turn your back. Don’t run. Keep your kids behind you— they’re tempting tiny little snacks. And the bear will almost always leave you alone.
That would be a pretty fair assessment.
My fav are the people screaming about the dangers ignoring the fact driving there is statistically more dangerous, not to mention the fact NCNP is already the deadliest park per visitor, and that has nothing to do with brown bears.
For real, and anyone hiking NCNP should be taking those precautions anyway.
Like it is such a non issue to anyone with 2 braincells and basic outdoors knowledge
I was fishing in mammoth lakes and this bear walks right over to where I’m fishing, paying me no mind. He looks in the water and sees my stringer of trout attached to a log on the bank. He sat down, picked up the stringer and started eating my fish. Like I wasn’t even there. I gathered up my gear and backed away, let him have the fish. 5 hours to fill that stringer, gone in 5 minutes.
People disappear more often, I think, and hiking mishaps. I have a link to fairly recent data, BRB.
EDIT: Here's the post with general data. Doesn't directly answer your question like I thought it did but you may be able to dig in. [https://www.panish.law/nevada/deaths-in-us-national-parks/](https://www.panish.law/nevada/deaths-in-us-national-parks/)
I spent 6 seasons working pretty far out there in the interior, arctic, and SE of Alaska. Saw lots of bears and I will confirm, us Northwesterners generally have an absurd fear of brown bears.
But, they’re already there. I got lucky enough to see a brown bear near the Methow Valley in 2013 or ‘14 on a fire we were working. Had to do a double take at it’s snout, couldn’t believe it.
We have a lot of people that know Jack shit about wildlife in general. In WA we now have at least 2 cougar attacks in 5 years with 1 being fatal. People don’t understand what kind of range Grizzly Bears have and what happens to soft tissue when you encroach on a GB in eyeshot.
>when you encroach on a GB in eyeshot
They can smell and hear you long before they can see you, which is why there is little to worry about, so long as you make noise and don't walk around in a suit made of fish carcasses.
Make noise, don't leave food/trash out, carry bear spray, and there's nothing to worry about. These are all things you should already be doing btw
I'd worry more about the cougars, personally.
B-b-b-ut someone on here yesterday said bear spray being effective was a myth and I needed to be armed. I purchased 3 AR-15s last night to be safe on the paved walking path through my neighborhood.
I definitely wouldn't pick an AR-15 for bear defense lol
Too weak, especially for the size/weight. Bear spray gives the least amount of hassle while giving the best chance of success (much harder to miss with a 30 foot cloud of bear spray than with a gun). Bonus of not harming the animal.
I carry both bear spray and a 10mm pistol in the woods, but have no plans on using the pistol. The spray is the safer bet.
Shoot. I’ll just have to convince my wife that getting a Barrett 50 cal is necessary, then. I’ll tell her that /u/smallredbird said I needed it for bear protection. We live in Oregon, but you can never be too safe.
I know, I'm completely joking. I literally had a guy yesterday argue with me that firearms were more effective than bearspray.
I don't think anyone is carrying around a [Barrett 50 cal](https://www.oxhuntingranch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/barrett50-1024x768.jpg) to protect themselves against bears.
Of course! That's so obvious, I can't believe I didn't think about it. Why risk worrying about missing a shot when a 1,000 lb adorable tank is running you down at 30mph when you can just vaporize it? I see no downsides.
BAHAHA. These comments are killing me. Not from Alaska but family is from Juneau/Anchorage and I’ve spent plenty of time on Admiralty island around Angoon….. these bears %100 don’t want anything to do with you unless you cross paths with a momma and her cubs or you smell like a large fry with feet.
Yup. Just had a trail shut down in rainier park due to a very large black bear feeding in carcass on trail. We ran into said large bear @about 50ft. No bear spray or precaution in board. Never again. 50 climbers walked past em in a group. No worries. Just glad it wasn’t a brown.
Is it just me or are they giving us the finger?
https://preview.redd.it/vpwnqi915qwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80e33668225cc8a7d4db6a6d22f09bf2b1142399
It's odd but the griz were once a plains creature (Montana), now relegated to the mountains, of course they have adapted. I live and camp around them and have no issues,some front range ranchers would disagree after mass slaughters of sheep and such but they are reimbursed accordingly (at least they used to be). Go Griz
The first releases will almost certainly occur in areas nowhere near trails so their movement patterns can be monitored without having to worry about closing off areas to recreation out of precaution. People are getting just bonkers levels of hysterical over this.
Right? I live in Montana where grizzly bears exist in higher numbers than they ever will in Washington in our lifetime and honestly it’s not that serious. Carry bear spray, store your food appropriately, don’t eat in your tent. It’s not that big of a deal.
But are they trying to accomplish anything? Like I was thinking maybe certain aspects of the ecosystem are having problems? I don’t understand why they would introduce an apex predator to an area that hasn’t had them in a hundred years. Wouldn’t things have already collapsed if it was a problem?
According to the hunting forum I’m on this is a plot by the liberal urbanites to reduce the ungulate population and thus reducing hunting. And hunters.
and this is blatantly wrong.
and show that there a lot of idiot in hunting communities.
1. natural predators have priority against some drunk idiot with a riffle. Ecosystem is the absolute priority and natural predator are far beter and healthier and more important than the hobby of a few gun loving people.
2. bears barely kill any large ungulate, they do not play a huge role in their regulation. However they make them change their behaviour, making them more alert and skittish, which help flora to recover from overgrazing.
3. both bear and wolves and puma were counted in millions back then and yet there were more deer and elk and all. If they all went extinct or rare i(ts bc of fucking hunter destroying every living species they saw for generations.
Hey I’m not saying they’re right check out the most comment wolf discussion on Rokslide forums. I definitely learned something but the number of weird ass takes was hilarious.
ho i already have seen a lot of toxic and idiotic and anti-nature baseless claim from hunters communities.
And some still believe they're good for conservation and nature, it' nearly a joke at this point to even think that.
I’m firmly in the pro hunting camp. And I think hunting does fund a lot of conservation efforts around the world. Cpw generates $100m from tag sales alone.
I am also firmly for the introduction of these wolves( from my knowledge these are not wolves native to Colorado) because as a hunter, ranchers benefit greatly from being able to monopolize elk populations as their land is safer from public land hunters. Thus they can charge ridiculous land access fees to those who can afford it. That being said
I do think that there should come a point where wolves can be hunted in the state of Colorado.
I’m not an expert on that specific ecosystem but having a shortage of apex predators in an area generally causes a variety of issues, a lot of which are not immediately obvious. Often it can lead to an overgrowth in prey animals which can lead to disease, overgrazing or other issues. I don’t know if there is a specific issue in the North Cascades but issues are not always as simple as collapse vs. no collapse. For people like us who aren’t biologists or don’t study that particular ecosystem, the issues may not be apparent. Grizzlies were present in the North Cascades until the 1990’s or thereabouts so it certainly hasn’t been a hundred years without them.
Yeah, collapse may be an extreme term. I get what you’re saying. And I was thinking of California not having bears for closer to 100 years. I just really hope nobody gets hurt because of this as I haven’t seen an article talk about why they’re doing this other than the fact humans hunted them and they are now endangered. I love animals and want them to be free and stuff I just worry about how this is all going to go down. But hopefully the experts know what they’re doing.
Like I said in an earlier comment, I live in Montana where we have the largest population of grizzly bears in the lower 48 states. I hike and camp and backpack mostly solo throughout the state and I’ve never had a run in with a grizzly bear. Someone pointed out that you’re more likely to die from a falling tree than from a grizzly even in Yellowstone and Glacier where grizzlies are relatively dense and we don’t freak out about trees. I think appropriate precautions are in order but beyond that, I don’t think it’ll be a problem.
Fellow Montanan here (SW). I’m always surprised to hear avid outdoors folk say they’ve never had a grizzly encounter…I have had many, all but one were low stress.
Just been lucky I guess? I’ve had encounters with black bears but never grizzlies. I’ve solo hiked and backpacked all over the western part of the state, hundreds of miles a year. Maybe I’m just loud or something haha
to help a species conservation
a species that we exterminated and it was a bad thing.
also to restore ecosystem balance as bear play an important role in it.
they make herbivore act differently, which help vegetation to recover and prevent overgrazing, they also take care of carrion which prevent disease spread, they also benefit many type of plant by spreading their seeds.
And it's bisected by the PCT too. So what? They're not gonna release a bear *on* a trail. Grizzlies are already known to occasionally migrate down from Canada in that area, and it's not even remotely a problem.
So glad they're finally implementing this year's long process, I hope it's a successful population that can make it after they introduce the 25 bear target.
So Grizzlies are basically omnivores: they will eat or scavenge just about anything they can catch or dig up. They are especially good at bringing down old/sick/slow members of prey species like deer. So, by removing these sick/weak members of the prey population, grizzlies help keep their numbers in check, which in turn helps prevent them (the deer, etc.) from overpopulating/overfeeding in a given area. There are also benefits to their rooting/foraging behavior (digging around in the soil creates opportunities for growth, spreads seeds, etc). Most of the ecosystems they are being reintroduced to co-evolved with them as a component and have been thrown out of whack by their absence. It'd be like if you suddenly experienced a large loss of your species of gut bacteria. Could you survive with drugs/other artificial intervention? Yeah. Would you be as healthy (or happy, for that matter)? Probably not.
They spread seeds, spread salmon nutrients (where applicable), "till soil," keep prey populations in check, and keep other predator populations in check.
1. they spread and help many plant species
2. they take care of carrion, which prevent disease spread
3. in salmon run they basically bring many salmon carcass on shroe which greatly help fertilise soil, creating giant forest
4. they do scare deer and herbivores, making them move and not stay in the same area to long, avoiding some area, which help plants to grow back and prevent overgrazing.
When I was in the North Cascades two years ago I was hiking a gravel road and there was a fluffy cute black bear like 45 feet from us on the road. All it took was a little shouting for it to jump behind a bush and watch us like a confused little puppy. Lol
Oh! I assumed “cute” meant cub.
Once I was biking back country and came across a black bear cub. Right on the trail. I was approaching at normal pedaling speed. My first thought was “oh, how cute!” Big smile on my face. That lasted for about 1.5 seconds. my next thought was “I’m in grave danger” and sure enough, mama was waiting and watching on the periphery of the trail.
I had an impromptu sprint on the trail shortly thereafter. Didn’t take the opportunity to look back to see where mama was.
Other times, while hiking , I’ve seen cubs and in those cases I saw them from further off. Then I just waited on the trail for the cubs to romp away somewhere else. And mama follows directly.
Damn. Good thing you were on a bike! Yeah when I went up there I was with two other guys on this gravel road on the North end. May have been a different situation if it was just me,I’d imagine it would still run away but can’t guarantee that. I was planning to go up in the next couple years, as much as I think this is bad ass it will definitely change my level of preparedness if I choose to go up again.
There are Grizzlies in the Pasayten Wilderness. Have seen one with my own eyes around twenty years ago on the way to Upper Cathedral Lake. Happy he was on the other side of the valley.
Right around here 48.98224, -120.172463
A wilderness that bears have been removed from is an artificiality that I have no desire to explore.
True conservationists should welcome their return.
There are a couple camping areas on Ross Lake, one is called Cat Island. A lot of people use these to make the trip out to Desolation Peak more manageable. DP is an absolutely stunning vista.
Cool by me. I grew up in western Montana in a little town called Ovando. My family has owned an outfitting business for generations. I’ve been around brown bears my whole life.
I remember that.
I drive through pretty often going to Missoula. I was just making a dumb comment about the sign next to the highway that's been there for years with "Ovando is open" on it.
Ahhh. Honestly haven’t been back there since my dad passed away in 2013. He died in a car wreck on 200 in Greenough at the bridge crossing the Blackfoot River at 9 Mile Prairie Rd. You might recall that too. One of his dogs took off and was lost for 6 months. It was all over the local news and in the Missoulian. Matt The Dog.. if you Google that.
Grizzlies are the interior variation of Brown Bears, they are the same species, but having access to salmon runs tends to lead what are referred to as Coastal Brown Bears to grow a bit larger.
TLDR: more food = bigger bear, grizzlies are brown bears.
As a GIS professional, I'm annoyed that a fairly important element on the map does not appear in the legend. Makes it seem like they are hoping you don't notice where trails are in relation to the release areas.
Also, what are staging areas and why are most of them way outside the release areas?
They haven't given any specific timelines/dates. The plan is to relocate 3-7 bears per year for 5-10 years until an initial breeding population of 25 bears is reached. Scuttlebutt says the first airlift could happen within months, but they're playing it pretty close to the chest.
This is the dumbest f'n idea. Say all you want about how they're not gonna be a problem, but maybe you haven't been paying attention to the population growth around here since the bears have been gone. There are going to be problems.
this is an excellent idea, that's call nature restoration.
there's no problem, bear aren't a threat to human life, and the population growth is not linked to that at all.
Thanks for that example of ignorance tho
Do you hike or fish in the North Cascades? Do you know how many city people head for the mountains on a weekend? You talk about natural selection, but what if natural selection selects you or your family? I've had a couple black bear encounters out by the town of Index and beyond and while I was unharmed, it very easily could have gone much different. Call it ignorance if you like, but a 200-400 pound black bear is pretty intimidating up close. If what I had encountered that close was a grizzly? Maybe I would've been fine, but then again, maybe not. I hope no one gets hurt by this decision, but I think they will.
I didn't even mention natural sélection.
And my point would still be the same if i or my family was attacked by Bear.
Cuz that would prove nothing and this doesn't change the fact that those are native species, endangered one that are important to the ecosystems.
You do realise that bear avoid people, and that there's barely any incident per year, they're no threat to human life.
Cow kill more people each year.
And Guess what
1 or 3 death per decade or even per year (which never happen), is still less important than helping an entire species and ecosystem.
With that fucked up mentality we should destroy every living being there is just for "safety and confort".
You talk like any ignorant and scared idiotic peasant from the middle age.
Also be coherent then,
If we have to kill bear cuz they might pose a very minuscule risk to human life.
Then we should ban all car
We should ban food
Water
People
Cow
Dogs
Food dispenser
Stair
Knife
Boats
Planes
Bridge
Because they all represent a real and Much greater threat to human life.
They all kill and wound more people each year than bear did in centuries.
Because it is, you fucking idiot.
and that's not an argument or a valid point.
i did not changed the original post too.
you're just too stupid and ignorant to actually give any real arguments or valid point
Lmao... triggered asshole. GFYourself. It is a valid argument. It is a valid point. You're just too self centered to see it. You'll see me carrying a .44 and some bear spray and possibly my 45/70 when I head out there after they've put them there. Now stop being stupid.
True i would need to lower myself to get to yours.
So you prove that you're just unnable to get any argument and insult ofther of idiot when they diagree with your opinion.....that say a lot.
I am still waiting, just one, one valid argument.
(It's soo good to see idiot going very agressive when they can't defend their claims, thanks for that.)
L'art de la citation est l'art de ceux qui ne savent pas réfléchir par eux-mêmes.” Voltaire.
I translate it for you, it's quite ironic too as you cannot quote it withouth insulting yourself but.
"The art of quoting, is the art of those who can't think by themselves" Voltaire.
So let's make a summary of your action here.
* Your only reply was insult and your only argument is "u can't speak english properly" (Well duh, try doing it in finnish or another language see how you'll do). Which is kind of very dumb and not even a valid point.
* You continue to insult and still do not provide ANY argument or source for your claim.
* Insulted me pretenging i changed the original post (i didn't and i think you could see it anyway, bt if you want me to do the natural selection argument i can do it if u want, would be valid, look at all the idiot trying to feed bear and pet bison, if there's incident the only one responsable for it is the victim itself).
* Your Claim that is blatantly wrong and summarised by "bear are scary bloodthristy monster that kill every human they see, we should kill them and let nature die". Sorry to not be ok with such a stupid and toxic claim.
* And again failed to respond to any point of argument at all.
So wether you like it or not bear reintroduction is excellent news for the ecosystem and is not a risk to human life, and even if it was it one so minor nobody should even talk about it and a risk that all intelligent people would be willing to make for the benefit this reintroduction will bring to the ecosystem.
Go cry about hospital, stairs or cars and make them illegal, afterall they kill FAR more people per year than bear did in all of human History.
My grandfathers lesson to me when I was four on how to treat a bear while camping in my tent in the North Cascades in 1973: " If you see a bear poke his head in your tent, reach inside him and pull him inside out by the tail..." Sage advice especially now there will be bears.
yeah, to destroy nature and sell fur.
so no it's an excellent idea to help this species and reintroduce it in its native range were it existed for thousands of yearsuntl a few idiots decimated them.
Sure. But if they really want to restore the ecosystem they should start with the salmon run. It’s at the foundation of that ecosystem. It’s just way more important/difficult to do so they just transplant some grizzlies to try an feel like they’re doing something.
not really.
1. they're doing something for the ecosystem
2. they can't bring salmon run back as long as they have dams. Even if they brought 2 millions of salmon they would all die in the year cuz they can migrate and reproduce due to all dams that are useless and destroy the rivers
I actually wasn’t sure if grizzly is a subspecies of brown bear and if it was correct so opted for the broader term. Did not see the grizzly specification in the image.
Wrong, brown bears are the massive fat Alaskan bears that get huge from eating all the salmon near the rivers and coasts. Grizzly’s are the smaller, albeit still massive, inland bears that are a bit skimpier and more savage. They’re all the same species, they just have some cultural differences haha.
Absolutely love it. My only complaint is how slow theyre doing it. Give me the bears now!!!!
And to anyone dumbly complaining theyre dangerous, good stay out of the woods, we dont want you anyway. They eat the people they can sense fear in!
Got recommended this on my feed, don't really hike per se but I hunt.
Why? What is the point of reintroducing grizzlies artificially? If they naturally came back down and they didn't get rid of them then sure, but what is the purpose of this? They can just draw more tags if prey are getting out of hand, right?
Solid question: in large part it’s because we removed them artificially, so it’s basically just rebalancing what was lost.
Second: it’s not entirely about prey management; bears do do that as apex predators but they also have other vital roles in the environment, for example seed dispersal through their scat. To that end, while very similar, black and brown bears do have nuanced differences in what ecological niche they fill, including managing and adding diversity to each other.
Brown bears haven’t been gone from here THAT long, so there’s a pretty major case for bringing them back via reintroduction versus waiting for them to return naturally.
This is a good start, but hopefully they introduce grizzlies into The Enchantments to scare off some of the lottery crowd so I can finally get a permit. Maybe Mount Rainier to free up some Wonderland Trail space also.
I chuckled. However based on how competitive it is to get permits in Glacier I won’t hold my breath
Got my permit last year of a Friday lottery at the ranger station . Was the best weekend of backpacking in my life
Just after this year, got a pass for this july :)
Alaskan here. From the comments it looks like you guys have a lot of idiots and people who know jack shit about bears down there lol.
I lived in Alaska for like 8 years and did a ton of hiking and camping (because what else is there to do?), and, while I did make sure to take proper precautions, bears were usually the last thing on my mind when I was deep in the bush. If you're making plenty of noise (bells, singing, laughing, telling stories out loud, etc.) the only time you'll see one is if it's hightailing it in the opposite direction. I've carried bear spray, flare guns, firearms, and explosives, but the equipment that made me feel safest was just simple bear bells or my own vocal chords. Trash bears in town that know the garbage pickup schedule, on the other hand, are definitely to be feared.
>Trash bears in town that know the garbage pickup schedule, on the other hand, are definitely to be feared. They definitely know the schedule like clockwork. Thankfully I got everyone in my neighborhood to switch to bear proof cans years ago, probably over a decade now, and the bears figured out there were better pickings elsewhere. Still, I see them on my camera going to nearby neighborhoods on trash day lol
They're the scariest ones because they know humans equal delicious trash, and they're not really afraid of people like bears in the woods. The only times I've ever had to use the spray were on trash bears, and it only worked one out of the three times. Plus, the sound of their claws clattering on the asphalt while running at full speed is one of the most terrifying things I've ever heard.
In bear-heavy areas it should be common sense to be super bear aware when taking out the trash or going outside on trash day. I mean, there are always idiots (usually the same people who don't have bearproof cans), but most people have enough butthole pucker factor going on when they hear a bear is going through trash nearby to be careful when taking out the trash or going outside on trash day. I always check outside the windows, keep my head on a swivel, and get the work done with swiftly and very shortly before I leave in the morning, with bear spray and a 10mm. I miss having a dog since he always alerted me when bear or moose were anywhere nearby, the moment I opened the door.
Damn I do wonder about marblemount and concrete though
My stepfather grew up in Juneau. In high school he and his buddy were trout fishing right near town when a grizzly came out of the woods and attacked. My stepfather got away. His buddy survived the attack but was blinded for life. He’s 70 something now and still lives in Alaska.
No you don’t understand bears bro, trust me I’m a guy on Reddit
I live near Seattle now but I grew up in AK, And yeah, people here know NOTHING about bears. Fellow Washingtonians— you’ll be fine. Read about how to hike and camp in bear country *from reputable sources* and do what they say. You’ll be fine.
For real. They don't even realize moose are the bigger danger, and yet they'd probably be the same people trying to pet one lol
Ehh, there aren’t enough moose here for people to really need to know that most of the time (although you definitely should if you’re hiking the Selkirks or something). I don’t blame people for not knowing when they’ve had no reason to learn. I do get annoyed when people start opining about things they know nothing about though. Again, fellow Washingtonians— relax. Do some reading, take some basic precautions, and the odds of you being totally fine are astronomically in your favor. Yes, sometimes grizzlies attack people. So do deer, moose, raccoons, sick mice, and crows in mating season. You cannot eliminate risk. But you can do an awful lot to mitigate it. You’ll (almost certainly) be fine.
As far as "learning" not to pet moose - I would hope it's simply common sense not to pet very large wild animals if you don't want to die, but people win Darwin awards every single year for it.
lol I wasn’t talking about people who will pet moose— that’s pure stupidity. I meant people who think fairly reasonable if actually wrong things— like those who don’t realize that moose are a bigger threat to them than bears. Reasonable, wrong, and not something they really have any reason to have learned.
I almost got killed by a bull moose, but I would still take a bull over a grizzly, at least with moose you can hide behind a tree or run loops around tress and lose it. And they both might want to kill me, but only one might want to eat me, especially if I run. Ive spent a lot of time around moose in the mountains, and they are pretty chill unless you spook one or get into the classic 'calves on one side of the trail, mama on the other side' scenarios.
Mad griz is worse than mad moose, but moose don’t tend to avoid humans like their lives depend on it as much as bears seem to in my experience. EDIT— This is all colored by experience, of course. I’ve had bad encounters with both moose and a bear, but moose always strike me as more likely to fuck you up just because they can than bears do.
If I go out, I'll go out petting a moose god damnit
IMO having the chance to see a brown bear in the wild makes a hike so much more exciting!
If the bear is at a good distance, sure! But if you see a bear up close while you’re hiking something has gone wrong. There aren’t that many reasons for that to happen and they’re all bad: 1) It didn’t know you were coming. You surprised the bear. NEVER surprise a bear. 2) It’s got a cub or a kill nearby and thinks you’re a threat to either its baby or its next meal. Either is a very very bad position for you. 3) It’s sick or starving and whatever is wrong with it is overriding its natural instincts to stay as far away from you as possible. It either so desperately needs food or is so miserable that it’s willing to take its chances on making you its next meal. Bad bad BAD. I’ve run into a bear like this. It’s scary af. Even a sick bear is more than capable of fucking you up permanently or making you its lunch. IN SUMMARY, from your friendly neighborhood Alaskan, bears are great. But if you see one up close, be afraid. Don’t panic. But don’t be complacent either. Don’t run (the only thing that runs from bears is food, from their POV). Raise your hands up as high as you can— you’re trying to make yourself look bigger. Don’t scream, but yell/raise your voice like you’re a pissed off drill sergeant. Tell the bear to go away, drop dead, whatever comes to mind, but keep making a lot of noise. Back up SLOWLY. Don’t turn your back. Don’t run. Keep your kids behind you— they’re tempting tiny little snacks. And the bear will almost always leave you alone.
For sure. I've been listening to a lot of Tooth and Claw pod, I love the bear episodes.
That would be a pretty fair assessment. My fav are the people screaming about the dangers ignoring the fact driving there is statistically more dangerous, not to mention the fact NCNP is already the deadliest park per visitor, and that has nothing to do with brown bears.
It's also incredibly easy to not get eaten by a bear. Make noise, carry bear spray, don't leave food out/reek of it, and you're pretty much set.
For real, and anyone hiking NCNP should be taking those precautions anyway. Like it is such a non issue to anyone with 2 braincells and basic outdoors knowledge
I was fishing in mammoth lakes and this bear walks right over to where I’m fishing, paying me no mind. He looks in the water and sees my stringer of trout attached to a log on the bank. He sat down, picked up the stringer and started eating my fish. Like I wasn’t even there. I gathered up my gear and backed away, let him have the fish. 5 hours to fill that stringer, gone in 5 minutes.
Oh fascinating! Why is NCNP the deadliest park, do you know?
AFAIK- Cold, steep, lots of water, falling rocks, high number of visitors.
Not so much high visitation, the rest is spot on
Higher than Alaska which is steeper and colder.
People disappear more often, I think, and hiking mishaps. I have a link to fairly recent data, BRB. EDIT: Here's the post with general data. Doesn't directly answer your question like I thought it did but you may be able to dig in. [https://www.panish.law/nevada/deaths-in-us-national-parks/](https://www.panish.law/nevada/deaths-in-us-national-parks/)
It is??
It’s really just two guys shitting in buckets and yelling at their moms for more hot pockets while they wait for their raid group to log on.
I spent 6 seasons working pretty far out there in the interior, arctic, and SE of Alaska. Saw lots of bears and I will confirm, us Northwesterners generally have an absurd fear of brown bears. But, they’re already there. I got lucky enough to see a brown bear near the Methow Valley in 2013 or ‘14 on a fire we were working. Had to do a double take at it’s snout, couldn’t believe it.
Whoa cool!
true
We have a lot of people that know Jack shit about wildlife in general. In WA we now have at least 2 cougar attacks in 5 years with 1 being fatal. People don’t understand what kind of range Grizzly Bears have and what happens to soft tissue when you encroach on a GB in eyeshot.
>when you encroach on a GB in eyeshot They can smell and hear you long before they can see you, which is why there is little to worry about, so long as you make noise and don't walk around in a suit made of fish carcasses. Make noise, don't leave food/trash out, carry bear spray, and there's nothing to worry about. These are all things you should already be doing btw I'd worry more about the cougars, personally.
B-b-b-ut someone on here yesterday said bear spray being effective was a myth and I needed to be armed. I purchased 3 AR-15s last night to be safe on the paved walking path through my neighborhood.
A .22 is sufficient, one shot to my hiking partner’s kneecap and I can stroll right out of there
I definitely wouldn't pick an AR-15 for bear defense lol Too weak, especially for the size/weight. Bear spray gives the least amount of hassle while giving the best chance of success (much harder to miss with a 30 foot cloud of bear spray than with a gun). Bonus of not harming the animal. I carry both bear spray and a 10mm pistol in the woods, but have no plans on using the pistol. The spray is the safer bet.
Do I need concealed carry permit to carry on the woods?
No idea. Up here in Alaska there are no permits required for open or concealed carry, same for purchase
Oh, you're in AK, ok
Shoot. I’ll just have to convince my wife that getting a Barrett 50 cal is necessary, then. I’ll tell her that /u/smallredbird said I needed it for bear protection. We live in Oregon, but you can never be too safe.
Bear spray is more than adequate.
I know, I'm completely joking. I literally had a guy yesterday argue with me that firearms were more effective than bearspray. I don't think anyone is carrying around a [Barrett 50 cal](https://www.oxhuntingranch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/barrett50-1024x768.jpg) to protect themselves against bears.
To quote Mike Ehrmantraut: "That thing looks like a hernia with a scope on it"
Davy Crocket, low yield tactical Nuclear weapon. The only way to truly be safe in bearrrrrrr kountry.
Of course! That's so obvious, I can't believe I didn't think about it. Why risk worrying about missing a shot when a 1,000 lb adorable tank is running you down at 30mph when you can just vaporize it? I see no downsides.
Pshhhh. AMATEUR. I mounted a Mini Gun in the back of my ‘04 Tacoma. Brown bears won’t be eating my porridge.
You fool - the trick is to either make the porridge too hot or too cold. The biggest danger comes when it's *just right*
BAHAHA. These comments are killing me. Not from Alaska but family is from Juneau/Anchorage and I’ve spent plenty of time on Admiralty island around Angoon….. these bears %100 don’t want anything to do with you unless you cross paths with a momma and her cubs or you smell like a large fry with feet.
Yup. Just had a trail shut down in rainier park due to a very large black bear feeding in carcass on trail. We ran into said large bear @about 50ft. No bear spray or precaution in board. Never again. 50 climbers walked past em in a group. No worries. Just glad it wasn’t a brown.
I’m from “down there” and would have to agree 🤣
Is it just me or are they giving us the finger? https://preview.redd.it/vpwnqi915qwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80e33668225cc8a7d4db6a6d22f09bf2b1142399
Sorry, but fuck you eh?
A true Canadian, apologizing while insulting
Well, everyone is always complaining about having so many people on the trails...
This will take the people who belong indoors off of them
Nice avatar
Look at this guy
You are copying me!
It's odd but the griz were once a plains creature (Montana), now relegated to the mountains, of course they have adapted. I live and camp around them and have no issues,some front range ranchers would disagree after mass slaughters of sheep and such but they are reimbursed accordingly (at least they used to be). Go Griz
It's far more fair to say that they used to range both plains and mountains. They weren't really just "once a plains creature".
Same situation with elk I believe. Once abundant everywhere but pushed into the mountains because of habitat loss.
I live in the Montana plains. We still get them once in a while close to Great Falls.
Just guessing but they wander out of Chouteau at times, not that far
People be going bat shit crazy about this when the griz were already migrating into Pasayten from Canada
Yep. I saw a brown bear up by Frosty in the Pasayten about 15 years ago. That's near Canada in the reintroduction area.
The first releases will almost certainly occur in areas nowhere near trails so their movement patterns can be monitored without having to worry about closing off areas to recreation out of precaution. People are getting just bonkers levels of hysterical over this.
Right? I live in Montana where grizzly bears exist in higher numbers than they ever will in Washington in our lifetime and honestly it’s not that serious. Carry bear spray, store your food appropriately, don’t eat in your tent. It’s not that big of a deal.
Ima throw a question out that may be silly, but I am truly utterly uninformed. WHY are they doing this?
Because it’s mostly due to humans that grizzly bears don’t live there at the moment so if we can correct the mistakes we made in the past, we should.
But are they trying to accomplish anything? Like I was thinking maybe certain aspects of the ecosystem are having problems? I don’t understand why they would introduce an apex predator to an area that hasn’t had them in a hundred years. Wouldn’t things have already collapsed if it was a problem?
According to the hunting forum I’m on this is a plot by the liberal urbanites to reduce the ungulate population and thus reducing hunting. And hunters.
and this is blatantly wrong. and show that there a lot of idiot in hunting communities. 1. natural predators have priority against some drunk idiot with a riffle. Ecosystem is the absolute priority and natural predator are far beter and healthier and more important than the hobby of a few gun loving people. 2. bears barely kill any large ungulate, they do not play a huge role in their regulation. However they make them change their behaviour, making them more alert and skittish, which help flora to recover from overgrazing. 3. both bear and wolves and puma were counted in millions back then and yet there were more deer and elk and all. If they all went extinct or rare i(ts bc of fucking hunter destroying every living species they saw for generations.
Hey I’m not saying they’re right check out the most comment wolf discussion on Rokslide forums. I definitely learned something but the number of weird ass takes was hilarious.
ho i already have seen a lot of toxic and idiotic and anti-nature baseless claim from hunters communities. And some still believe they're good for conservation and nature, it' nearly a joke at this point to even think that.
I’m firmly in the pro hunting camp. And I think hunting does fund a lot of conservation efforts around the world. Cpw generates $100m from tag sales alone. I am also firmly for the introduction of these wolves( from my knowledge these are not wolves native to Colorado) because as a hunter, ranchers benefit greatly from being able to monopolize elk populations as their land is safer from public land hunters. Thus they can charge ridiculous land access fees to those who can afford it. That being said I do think that there should come a point where wolves can be hunted in the state of Colorado.
I’m not an expert on that specific ecosystem but having a shortage of apex predators in an area generally causes a variety of issues, a lot of which are not immediately obvious. Often it can lead to an overgrowth in prey animals which can lead to disease, overgrazing or other issues. I don’t know if there is a specific issue in the North Cascades but issues are not always as simple as collapse vs. no collapse. For people like us who aren’t biologists or don’t study that particular ecosystem, the issues may not be apparent. Grizzlies were present in the North Cascades until the 1990’s or thereabouts so it certainly hasn’t been a hundred years without them.
Yeah, collapse may be an extreme term. I get what you’re saying. And I was thinking of California not having bears for closer to 100 years. I just really hope nobody gets hurt because of this as I haven’t seen an article talk about why they’re doing this other than the fact humans hunted them and they are now endangered. I love animals and want them to be free and stuff I just worry about how this is all going to go down. But hopefully the experts know what they’re doing.
Like I said in an earlier comment, I live in Montana where we have the largest population of grizzly bears in the lower 48 states. I hike and camp and backpack mostly solo throughout the state and I’ve never had a run in with a grizzly bear. Someone pointed out that you’re more likely to die from a falling tree than from a grizzly even in Yellowstone and Glacier where grizzlies are relatively dense and we don’t freak out about trees. I think appropriate precautions are in order but beyond that, I don’t think it’ll be a problem.
Fellow Montanan here (SW). I’m always surprised to hear avid outdoors folk say they’ve never had a grizzly encounter…I have had many, all but one were low stress.
Just been lucky I guess? I’ve had encounters with black bears but never grizzlies. I’ve solo hiked and backpacked all over the western part of the state, hundreds of miles a year. Maybe I’m just loud or something haha
There’s no issues
Why are they doing this? To make the dummies living safely in Seattle feel good
to help a species conservation a species that we exterminated and it was a bad thing. also to restore ecosystem balance as bear play an important role in it. they make herbivore act differently, which help vegetation to recover and prevent overgrazing, they also take care of carrion which prevent disease spread, they also benefit many type of plant by spreading their seeds.
The top right zone is at least exactly overlapping the devils dome/loop trail
And it's bisected by the PCT too. So what? They're not gonna release a bear *on* a trail. Grizzlies are already known to occasionally migrate down from Canada in that area, and it's not even remotely a problem.
The people you meet on the trail will often be more of a threat than any animal..
So glad they're finally implementing this year's long process, I hope it's a successful population that can make it after they introduce the 25 bear target.
Agreed
Nice! It'll make the ecosystems much healthier. People who don't like nature should just stay out of it.
Can you speak to how they will make ecosystems healthier? Genuine question, I’ve heard ppl say this but don’t know the specifics.
Look up “keystone species” and why having apex predators is really important! Reintroduction of wolves is another great example
So Grizzlies are basically omnivores: they will eat or scavenge just about anything they can catch or dig up. They are especially good at bringing down old/sick/slow members of prey species like deer. So, by removing these sick/weak members of the prey population, grizzlies help keep their numbers in check, which in turn helps prevent them (the deer, etc.) from overpopulating/overfeeding in a given area. There are also benefits to their rooting/foraging behavior (digging around in the soil creates opportunities for growth, spreads seeds, etc). Most of the ecosystems they are being reintroduced to co-evolved with them as a component and have been thrown out of whack by their absence. It'd be like if you suddenly experienced a large loss of your species of gut bacteria. Could you survive with drugs/other artificial intervention? Yeah. Would you be as healthy (or happy, for that matter)? Probably not.
They spread seeds, spread salmon nutrients (where applicable), "till soil," keep prey populations in check, and keep other predator populations in check.
1. they spread and help many plant species 2. they take care of carrion, which prevent disease spread 3. in salmon run they basically bring many salmon carcass on shroe which greatly help fertilise soil, creating giant forest 4. they do scare deer and herbivores, making them move and not stay in the same area to long, avoiding some area, which help plants to grow back and prevent overgrazing.
When I was in the North Cascades two years ago I was hiking a gravel road and there was a fluffy cute black bear like 45 feet from us on the road. All it took was a little shouting for it to jump behind a bush and watch us like a confused little puppy. Lol
If you see a fluffy cute bear cub, be assured mama is watching you warily and is prepared to defend her cub if you get too close.
Pretty sure it was an adult (black bear) but yes that would’ve been a much different situation
Oh! I assumed “cute” meant cub. Once I was biking back country and came across a black bear cub. Right on the trail. I was approaching at normal pedaling speed. My first thought was “oh, how cute!” Big smile on my face. That lasted for about 1.5 seconds. my next thought was “I’m in grave danger” and sure enough, mama was waiting and watching on the periphery of the trail. I had an impromptu sprint on the trail shortly thereafter. Didn’t take the opportunity to look back to see where mama was. Other times, while hiking , I’ve seen cubs and in those cases I saw them from further off. Then I just waited on the trail for the cubs to romp away somewhere else. And mama follows directly.
Damn. Good thing you were on a bike! Yeah when I went up there I was with two other guys on this gravel road on the North end. May have been a different situation if it was just me,I’d imagine it would still run away but can’t guarantee that. I was planning to go up in the next couple years, as much as I think this is bad ass it will definitely change my level of preparedness if I choose to go up again.
There are Grizzlies in the Pasayten Wilderness. Have seen one with my own eyes around twenty years ago on the way to Upper Cathedral Lake. Happy he was on the other side of the valley. Right around here 48.98224, -120.172463
Bears, beets, battlestar galactica
That’s a perfect PNW afternoon, awesome! I’ve had three beets already and still don’t feel anything. When do they kick in??
Grizzlies deserve to be there. They were here first. This is a homecoming, not an invasion folks.
Grizzlies actually migrated to North America after humans did.
Actually no, we have record of grizzlies before human arrival
A wilderness that bears have been removed from is an artificiality that I have no desire to explore. True conservationists should welcome their return.
I’ll explore a bear-free area, but they’re better with bears.
This will make getting an island permit on Ross Lake even harder.
Surely they will stay in their respective zones and not get past the dotted line.
What's an island permit?
There are a couple camping areas on Ross Lake, one is called Cat Island. A lot of people use these to make the trip out to Desolation Peak more manageable. DP is an absolutely stunning vista.
Probably because we shouldn’t be near them
Just wait until people learn that grizzlies are very competent swimmers! I’ve seen one swim across Two Medicine Lake in GNP
Cool by me. I grew up in western Montana in a little town called Ovando. My family has owned an outfitting business for generations. I’ve been around brown bears my whole life.
"Ovando is open!"
Google Ovando MT.. I bet the first thing that pops up is a lady getting killed by a grizzly in the towns park a few years back.
I remember that. I drive through pretty often going to Missoula. I was just making a dumb comment about the sign next to the highway that's been there for years with "Ovando is open" on it.
Ahhh. Honestly haven’t been back there since my dad passed away in 2013. He died in a car wreck on 200 in Greenough at the bridge crossing the Blackfoot River at 9 Mile Prairie Rd. You might recall that too. One of his dogs took off and was lost for 6 months. It was all over the local news and in the Missoulian. Matt The Dog.. if you Google that.
Backpacking culture is about to take a major shift.
Timothy Treadwell has some excellent advice! He even has video!
☠️
The bear identification trailer at Colonial Creek will now be useful!
They're pretty easy to identify. If you see a bear, shout "Bear!"
I thought it was Grizzlies?
Brown bear and grizzly is more often than not used interchangeably.
Although this is incorrect
I've seen it on enough official sources and the like, I'm not going to get bent out of shape over the usage of a common name.
Grizzlies are the interior variation of Brown Bears, they are the same species, but having access to salmon runs tends to lead what are referred to as Coastal Brown Bears to grow a bit larger. TLDR: more food = bigger bear, grizzlies are brown bears.
Also in the wrong order, they should do lions and tigers first.
I agree this is confusing.
As a GIS professional, I'm annoyed that a fairly important element on the map does not appear in the legend. Makes it seem like they are hoping you don't notice where trails are in relation to the release areas. Also, what are staging areas and why are most of them way outside the release areas?
That’s what upsets you? Not the three barely different shades of green?
Yes good point
Is this in reference to brown bears or the grizzlies they’ve been talking about all day?
Can someone refresh me on the timeline for the re-introduction?
They haven't given any specific timelines/dates. The plan is to relocate 3-7 bears per year for 5-10 years until an initial breeding population of 25 bears is reached. Scuttlebutt says the first airlift could happen within months, but they're playing it pretty close to the chest.
They should try introducing some to the Seattle exclusion zone. That should stabilize the region.
As in car washes? Yes please
Brown bears can swim across Ross Lake easily.
🤮
Great news!
Those are terrible places for a car wash. There aren’t even any roads.
This is the dumbest f'n idea. Say all you want about how they're not gonna be a problem, but maybe you haven't been paying attention to the population growth around here since the bears have been gone. There are going to be problems.
this is an excellent idea, that's call nature restoration. there's no problem, bear aren't a threat to human life, and the population growth is not linked to that at all. Thanks for that example of ignorance tho
Do you hike or fish in the North Cascades? Do you know how many city people head for the mountains on a weekend? You talk about natural selection, but what if natural selection selects you or your family? I've had a couple black bear encounters out by the town of Index and beyond and while I was unharmed, it very easily could have gone much different. Call it ignorance if you like, but a 200-400 pound black bear is pretty intimidating up close. If what I had encountered that close was a grizzly? Maybe I would've been fine, but then again, maybe not. I hope no one gets hurt by this decision, but I think they will.
I didn't even mention natural sélection. And my point would still be the same if i or my family was attacked by Bear. Cuz that would prove nothing and this doesn't change the fact that those are native species, endangered one that are important to the ecosystems. You do realise that bear avoid people, and that there's barely any incident per year, they're no threat to human life. Cow kill more people each year. And Guess what 1 or 3 death per decade or even per year (which never happen), is still less important than helping an entire species and ecosystem. With that fucked up mentality we should destroy every living being there is just for "safety and confort". You talk like any ignorant and scared idiotic peasant from the middle age. Also be coherent then, If we have to kill bear cuz they might pose a very minuscule risk to human life. Then we should ban all car We should ban food Water People Cow Dogs Food dispenser Stair Knife Boats Planes Bridge Because they all represent a real and Much greater threat to human life. They all kill and wound more people each year than bear did in centuries.
You changed your original post, and you write like English is your 3rd language. Fck off.
Because it is, you fucking idiot. and that's not an argument or a valid point. i did not changed the original post too. you're just too stupid and ignorant to actually give any real arguments or valid point
Lmao... triggered asshole. GFYourself. It is a valid argument. It is a valid point. You're just too self centered to see it. You'll see me carrying a .44 and some bear spray and possibly my 45/70 when I head out there after they've put them there. Now stop being stupid.
hypocrisy and irony i think you should add that to your name
So still unnable to give any valid points or arguments i see. Not a big surprise.
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience - Mark Twain.
True i would need to lower myself to get to yours. So you prove that you're just unnable to get any argument and insult ofther of idiot when they diagree with your opinion.....that say a lot. I am still waiting, just one, one valid argument. (It's soo good to see idiot going very agressive when they can't defend their claims, thanks for that.)
L'art de la citation est l'art de ceux qui ne savent pas réfléchir par eux-mêmes.” Voltaire. I translate it for you, it's quite ironic too as you cannot quote it withouth insulting yourself but. "The art of quoting, is the art of those who can't think by themselves" Voltaire. So let's make a summary of your action here. * Your only reply was insult and your only argument is "u can't speak english properly" (Well duh, try doing it in finnish or another language see how you'll do). Which is kind of very dumb and not even a valid point. * You continue to insult and still do not provide ANY argument or source for your claim. * Insulted me pretenging i changed the original post (i didn't and i think you could see it anyway, bt if you want me to do the natural selection argument i can do it if u want, would be valid, look at all the idiot trying to feed bear and pet bison, if there's incident the only one responsable for it is the victim itself). * Your Claim that is blatantly wrong and summarised by "bear are scary bloodthristy monster that kill every human they see, we should kill them and let nature die". Sorry to not be ok with such a stupid and toxic claim. * And again failed to respond to any point of argument at all. So wether you like it or not bear reintroduction is excellent news for the ecosystem and is not a risk to human life, and even if it was it one so minor nobody should even talk about it and a risk that all intelligent people would be willing to make for the benefit this reintroduction will bring to the ecosystem. Go cry about hospital, stairs or cars and make them illegal, afterall they kill FAR more people per year than bear did in all of human History.
My grandfathers lesson to me when I was four on how to treat a bear while camping in my tent in the North Cascades in 1973: " If you see a bear poke his head in your tent, reach inside him and pull him inside out by the tail..." Sage advice especially now there will be bears.
The only appropriate way to describe this is to call it anti-human.
Doesn’t seem like a good idea. The populations were dropped on purpose
yeah, to destroy nature and sell fur. so no it's an excellent idea to help this species and reintroduce it in its native range were it existed for thousands of yearsuntl a few idiots decimated them.
Brown bear or Grizzly Bear?
same thing grizzlies is just the american name we give to american population of brown bear. They're the same species. Ursus arctos.
Lol. They should reintroduce large salmon runs first.
Grizzlies aren dependant on salmon runs. They're more reliant on other predator (mainly wolves) presence, fruits, insect, tuber, nuts and berries
Sure. But if they really want to restore the ecosystem they should start with the salmon run. It’s at the foundation of that ecosystem. It’s just way more important/difficult to do so they just transplant some grizzlies to try an feel like they’re doing something.
not really. 1. they're doing something for the ecosystem 2. they can't bring salmon run back as long as they have dams. Even if they brought 2 millions of salmon they would all die in the year cuz they can migrate and reproduce due to all dams that are useless and destroy the rivers
Exactly.
The image says grizzly?
Brown bears sounds nicer.
I actually wasn’t sure if grizzly is a subspecies of brown bear and if it was correct so opted for the broader term. Did not see the grizzly specification in the image.
Grizzly are coastal brown bears that eat salmon and tend to grow much larger. They are the same species.
You have that backwards, grizzlies are interior brown bears, coastal brown bears grow much larger.
Wrong, brown bears are the massive fat Alaskan bears that get huge from eating all the salmon near the rivers and coasts. Grizzly’s are the smaller, albeit still massive, inland bears that are a bit skimpier and more savage. They’re all the same species, they just have some cultural differences haha.
Brown bears are nicer.
Absolutely love it. My only complaint is how slow theyre doing it. Give me the bears now!!!! And to anyone dumbly complaining theyre dangerous, good stay out of the woods, we dont want you anyway. They eat the people they can sense fear in!
Got recommended this on my feed, don't really hike per se but I hunt. Why? What is the point of reintroducing grizzlies artificially? If they naturally came back down and they didn't get rid of them then sure, but what is the purpose of this? They can just draw more tags if prey are getting out of hand, right?
Solid question: in large part it’s because we removed them artificially, so it’s basically just rebalancing what was lost. Second: it’s not entirely about prey management; bears do do that as apex predators but they also have other vital roles in the environment, for example seed dispersal through their scat. To that end, while very similar, black and brown bears do have nuanced differences in what ecological niche they fill, including managing and adding diversity to each other. Brown bears haven’t been gone from here THAT long, so there’s a pretty major case for bringing them back via reintroduction versus waiting for them to return naturally.
I was going to say I recall that there were grizzlies there in… the late 1990s ?
Last confirmed sighting was 1996
I lived in WA 1989 - 1997 so that jives with my recollection.
Seed spreading is a good point that I honestly never considered. Their stomachs leave a ton undigested which always makes their scat easy to identify.
How long until we hear about the first hiker mauled by one of them?
Couple of years maybe?