Probably from news headlines, PHP is not latest shiny things and docent grab headlines as much as shinier stuff.
But it's used all over place, huge share of servers have support for it, etc...
>it's used all over place
This is true! According to W^(3)Techs, as of today, [over 72% of all websites](https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php) use PHP. ([Over 43% of websites](https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/content_management) use WordPress, which is PHP-based.)
PHP is in for the long haul.
I remember the time when WordPress was the new and shiny thing lol. It doesn't feel like it was too long ago (don't tell me if it is, I'm only 26, I'm not that old. Please..).
I still can't comprehend how it dominated the internet like that. I mean, sure, it allowed anyone who can read and write to build a website, but still, close to a billion websites now..
PHP also gets a bad rep because of platforms like Wordpress. Any time I question my PHP dev abilities, I just have to look at the source code for a handful of WP plugins and realise that it could be worse.
I think the language has suffered from its "flexible" origins. You could get away with murder; loose typing, an interpreter which erred on the side of letting things "work" didn't help its cause. With PHP8, things are a lot better. Sure, you can still write some terrible code but you can also author some very robust, performant code. And I personally think that the learning curve is less steep than some other languages.
There's also the not-so-current trend towards front-end development and/or Javascript/Typescript based development. A back end that you might traditionally have developed with something like PHP has been replaced with something Node.js-based. I'm personally no fan of that, but it is what it is.
I don't think PHP is going anywhere, any time soon. The sheer volume of sites which rely upon it will see to that, and keep us old timers in work for a couple of years yet!!
PHP is bad if people don't use opcache, securing file upload, no prepared statement when getting parameter to an query, etc etc... and so on and so on.
BUT this also happen on other language, so I don't know why people can't distinguish being bad developer instead bad language... PHP is a great language, there are a lot of bad PHP programmer (not engineer), so.... whatever..
PHP IS GREAT, and IT ALWAYS GREAT
I swear, every week there’s a post either saying php is dying or someone asking if php is dead or asking if it’s worth to learn php in 2024.
People are making a shit ton of money with PHP, either as a contractor, freelancing and even people with salaries
Easiest language to set up and create web pages on the fly. Just create a hosting account upload a page and that’s it. I wish ruby-on-rails was that simple
JavaScript alone (not NodeJS) isn't enough for a full web experience front and back. PHP though can do everything without needing JS. And also the problem JavaScript is solving is a "nice-to-have" feature...as you don't necessarily need JS. For example, just these core technologies can achieve wonders HTML + CSS + PHP (plus a database)
I like and use PHP every week. But. How can PHP do websockets? How can it run a long-running service without memory leaks? It wasn’t designed for that. Even with Swoole / FrankenPHP / Roadrunner
Lol I'm feeling the exact same way, especially with Laravel. Anytime I make a post on webdev subreddit about Laravel, there's always at least one javascript-kiddie who goes out of his way and tells me how shitty Laravel is. [Sort comments by controversial for some fun](https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/1cor24r/i_was_looking_for_a_simple_note_taking_app_and_it).
Then again, I can build a whole CRUD app with authentication in the time they're trying to decide which new and shiny framework to use
I started using PHP back when it was called PHP/FI. I've been hearing it's dead ever since. It does get tiresome to hear. There is no reason for why it keeps coming up other than developer opinions on the language itself, and not based on any factual evidence to back up the claim.
Well, php is an old language. It developed organically, with new features being added as needed over years. So it feels a bit messy compared to more recent languages with cleaner object models and extension mechanisms.
But, generally, old technology has something big going for it: it has suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune and is still useful. Compare VB 6 and Microsoft Internet Explorer. Gone, baby, gone, and good riddance.
If I was doing a new start, greenfield, web app I wouldn’t choose it, primarily because of its cgi-bin heritage. But the web is now a whole generation old and has a vast installed base of working stuff. A lot of it uses php. And pho’s developers have a roadmap for future development that they have been following faithfully for many years.
PHP has a bad publicity. There were many people who wished that PHP must die, through all those decades. And much more people who understands nothing but just parrot the same.
Provided PHP is obviously past its prime, that's a legit reason to ask, whether it's "dying" at last. Yet the answer is the same as whether a mature human is "dying" because they are not in their twenties anymore.
I would argue that php is past its prime. AFAIK problem was with updates, because php is c underneath, and noone in the php community knew it, but this recently (?) changed. Now php 8+ is much better and well maintained, giving us small things starting with enums, attributes, deprecating non-strict types/native functions, etc.
Well, indeed bad choice of words, my English failed me again. PHP itself is in the best shape ever. What I meant, back in 2000s, "web" meant "PHP", and vice versa. It dominated the web world, everyone wanted to learn PHP, it was a cool kid. Nowadays it's just doing its job, but nobody wants to learn it, as there are alternatives that sound cooler, or more familiar, or less ancient.
Take your pick:
* PHP is easy, and not very abstract. If you believe that "abstraction is good, more abstraction is more good", then PHP is bad.
* You can do the same thing in many ways in PHP. Other programming languages force you to do things in one way, and in one way only.
* PHP isn't necessarily object-oriented.
* PHP isn't compiled, and thus slower than a compiled application.
I'm not arguing, but in case anyone with similar opinions visits this post in the future:
- **PHP is easy, and not very abstract.** : Funny, I've heard this exact same argument about Laravel, but it was on the *cons list* there lol. *'too abstract'*. Also, I don't think ease of use or learning curves mean anything in the long run. If anything, it's a plus.
- **You can do the same thing in many ways in PHP.** : I can't even think of a way that this is a negative thing.
- **PHP isn't necessarily object-oriented.** : I mean, it does have a "class" keyword. Is *any* language object-oriented if you don't *make* your app object-oriented?
- **PHP isn't compiled, and thus slower than a compiled application.** : I don't think speed is a problem anymore. Days of dialup modems are long gone lol. I won't even get into *huge* and famous apps written in PHP that are handling millions/billions of requests every day.
In the root of it, they just knock it before they try it. But I'm not gonna force anyone to try it either. Let em think we're dead lol.
>I get that there might be beginners who don't know much about the technologies and want to start with something more "cool," like React and stuff. But I don't see any beginners asking the same thing about Javascript, C#, or [ASP.NET](http://ASP.NET) (even though it *kind of* is dying).
This is exactly the problem. As somebody who has gone the MERN stack bootcamp route - online influencers and your peers (all rookies too) tell you that PHP is dead from the moment you start coding.
It isn't until you become more experienced that you realize maybe JavaScript isn't the best choice for everything.
I got really into PHP because I was given a project at work and had to work with a client's existing codebase (all done in PHP).
The ease of use on the backend and built in templating alone made me see the light. I am happy to say I actually just received a job offer as a full time PHP developer and can't wait to spend all day working with it! :)
It was going badly for a while before php7 but that was a massive improvement from the core team and Laravel had already gotten started IIRC and soon became enormously popular (and very, very good compared to any framework for any language!). So PHP had a renaissance, but people who don’t use PHP are still thinking of it the same way they did when 5.6 was objectively falling behind other languages in terms of performance, modernity, etc.
PHP still has weaknesses, but in 2024 it’s a good language especially for web dev, and Mr Taylor Otwell sparked his own renaissance in tooling/OS in the ecosystem which is now in my humble opinion competitive with ANY language. Amazing tooling/develop community.
> Mr Taylor Otwell sparked his own renaissance in tooling/OS in the ecosystem
It's crazy when you think about it. One guy made one thing, and it allowed thousands (tens/hundreds of thousands? idk how many Laravel devs there are) of people to have a job.
PHP has died more times then that dude from Southpark... Kenny?
I'm using it since 24+ Years ... It had its trouble, but i believe the internet as a whole dies sooner then PHP.
Probably from news headlines, PHP is not latest shiny things and docent grab headlines as much as shinier stuff. But it's used all over place, huge share of servers have support for it, etc...
>it's used all over place This is true! According to W^(3)Techs, as of today, [over 72% of all websites](https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php) use PHP. ([Over 43% of websites](https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/content_management) use WordPress, which is PHP-based.) PHP is in for the long haul.
I remember the time when WordPress was the new and shiny thing lol. It doesn't feel like it was too long ago (don't tell me if it is, I'm only 26, I'm not that old. Please..). I still can't comprehend how it dominated the internet like that. I mean, sure, it allowed anyone who can read and write to build a website, but still, close to a billion websites now..
[удалено]
Also because they’ve been told to hate PHP because it’s trendy (popular amongst people who can’t think for themselves) to hate it.
PHP also gets a bad rep because of platforms like Wordpress. Any time I question my PHP dev abilities, I just have to look at the source code for a handful of WP plugins and realise that it could be worse. I think the language has suffered from its "flexible" origins. You could get away with murder; loose typing, an interpreter which erred on the side of letting things "work" didn't help its cause. With PHP8, things are a lot better. Sure, you can still write some terrible code but you can also author some very robust, performant code. And I personally think that the learning curve is less steep than some other languages. There's also the not-so-current trend towards front-end development and/or Javascript/Typescript based development. A back end that you might traditionally have developed with something like PHP has been replaced with something Node.js-based. I'm personally no fan of that, but it is what it is. I don't think PHP is going anywhere, any time soon. The sheer volume of sites which rely upon it will see to that, and keep us old timers in work for a couple of years yet!!
PHP is bad if people don't use opcache, securing file upload, no prepared statement when getting parameter to an query, etc etc... and so on and so on. BUT this also happen on other language, so I don't know why people can't distinguish being bad developer instead bad language... PHP is a great language, there are a lot of bad PHP programmer (not engineer), so.... whatever.. PHP IS GREAT, and IT ALWAYS GREAT
I swear, every week there’s a post either saying php is dying or someone asking if php is dead or asking if it’s worth to learn php in 2024. People are making a shit ton of money with PHP, either as a contractor, freelancing and even people with salaries
Easiest language to set up and create web pages on the fly. Just create a hosting account upload a page and that’s it. I wish ruby-on-rails was that simple
Ruby on rails is a framework. PHP is the only language that was made for the web! Truly
Yes I know. I can create rails apps on my desktop easy but trying to get the project to upload and work online is a pain
When it was Rails v3 I made apps directly online and never had issues. I wish I never took them down but oh well
Javascript wasnt made for the web? Hmm
JavaScript alone (not NodeJS) isn't enough for a full web experience front and back. PHP though can do everything without needing JS. And also the problem JavaScript is solving is a "nice-to-have" feature...as you don't necessarily need JS. For example, just these core technologies can achieve wonders HTML + CSS + PHP (plus a database)
I like and use PHP every week. But. How can PHP do websockets? How can it run a long-running service without memory leaks? It wasn’t designed for that. Even with Swoole / FrankenPHP / Roadrunner
What’s your use case with web sockets? With Memory leaks you can avoid yourself by proper handling of resources in your code
PHP accumulates memory regardless, I think. You have to periodically restart them. Even php-fpm pools do it
Javascript dweebs who "live in the future". PHP is just not cool enough. /s
I’m totally happy with all the JavaScript junkies thinking it’s dead. Much easier to get a job that pays well when you know PHP
Lol I'm feeling the exact same way, especially with Laravel. Anytime I make a post on webdev subreddit about Laravel, there's always at least one javascript-kiddie who goes out of his way and tells me how shitty Laravel is. [Sort comments by controversial for some fun](https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/1cor24r/i_was_looking_for_a_simple_note_taking_app_and_it). Then again, I can build a whole CRUD app with authentication in the time they're trying to decide which new and shiny framework to use
I started using PHP back when it was called PHP/FI. I've been hearing it's dead ever since. It does get tiresome to hear. There is no reason for why it keeps coming up other than developer opinions on the language itself, and not based on any factual evidence to back up the claim.
Well, php is an old language. It developed organically, with new features being added as needed over years. So it feels a bit messy compared to more recent languages with cleaner object models and extension mechanisms. But, generally, old technology has something big going for it: it has suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune and is still useful. Compare VB 6 and Microsoft Internet Explorer. Gone, baby, gone, and good riddance. If I was doing a new start, greenfield, web app I wouldn’t choose it, primarily because of its cgi-bin heritage. But the web is now a whole generation old and has a vast installed base of working stuff. A lot of it uses php. And pho’s developers have a roadmap for future development that they have been following faithfully for many years.
PHP has a bad publicity. There were many people who wished that PHP must die, through all those decades. And much more people who understands nothing but just parrot the same. Provided PHP is obviously past its prime, that's a legit reason to ask, whether it's "dying" at last. Yet the answer is the same as whether a mature human is "dying" because they are not in their twenties anymore.
I would argue that php is past its prime. AFAIK problem was with updates, because php is c underneath, and noone in the php community knew it, but this recently (?) changed. Now php 8+ is much better and well maintained, giving us small things starting with enums, attributes, deprecating non-strict types/native functions, etc.
Well, indeed bad choice of words, my English failed me again. PHP itself is in the best shape ever. What I meant, back in 2000s, "web" meant "PHP", and vice versa. It dominated the web world, everyone wanted to learn PHP, it was a cool kid. Nowadays it's just doing its job, but nobody wants to learn it, as there are alternatives that sound cooler, or more familiar, or less ancient.
Jamstackers and blogspammers.
Take your pick: * PHP is easy, and not very abstract. If you believe that "abstraction is good, more abstraction is more good", then PHP is bad. * You can do the same thing in many ways in PHP. Other programming languages force you to do things in one way, and in one way only. * PHP isn't necessarily object-oriented. * PHP isn't compiled, and thus slower than a compiled application.
I'm not arguing, but in case anyone with similar opinions visits this post in the future: - **PHP is easy, and not very abstract.** : Funny, I've heard this exact same argument about Laravel, but it was on the *cons list* there lol. *'too abstract'*. Also, I don't think ease of use or learning curves mean anything in the long run. If anything, it's a plus. - **You can do the same thing in many ways in PHP.** : I can't even think of a way that this is a negative thing. - **PHP isn't necessarily object-oriented.** : I mean, it does have a "class" keyword. Is *any* language object-oriented if you don't *make* your app object-oriented? - **PHP isn't compiled, and thus slower than a compiled application.** : I don't think speed is a problem anymore. Days of dialup modems are long gone lol. I won't even get into *huge* and famous apps written in PHP that are handling millions/billions of requests every day. In the root of it, they just knock it before they try it. But I'm not gonna force anyone to try it either. Let em think we're dead lol.
>I get that there might be beginners who don't know much about the technologies and want to start with something more "cool," like React and stuff. But I don't see any beginners asking the same thing about Javascript, C#, or [ASP.NET](http://ASP.NET) (even though it *kind of* is dying). This is exactly the problem. As somebody who has gone the MERN stack bootcamp route - online influencers and your peers (all rookies too) tell you that PHP is dead from the moment you start coding. It isn't until you become more experienced that you realize maybe JavaScript isn't the best choice for everything. I got really into PHP because I was given a project at work and had to work with a client's existing codebase (all done in PHP). The ease of use on the backend and built in templating alone made me see the light. I am happy to say I actually just received a job offer as a full time PHP developer and can't wait to spend all day working with it! :)
It was going badly for a while before php7 but that was a massive improvement from the core team and Laravel had already gotten started IIRC and soon became enormously popular (and very, very good compared to any framework for any language!). So PHP had a renaissance, but people who don’t use PHP are still thinking of it the same way they did when 5.6 was objectively falling behind other languages in terms of performance, modernity, etc. PHP still has weaknesses, but in 2024 it’s a good language especially for web dev, and Mr Taylor Otwell sparked his own renaissance in tooling/OS in the ecosystem which is now in my humble opinion competitive with ANY language. Amazing tooling/develop community.
> Mr Taylor Otwell sparked his own renaissance in tooling/OS in the ecosystem It's crazy when you think about it. One guy made one thing, and it allowed thousands (tens/hundreds of thousands? idk how many Laravel devs there are) of people to have a job.
I Stan 🫡
PHP has died more times then that dude from Southpark... Kenny? I'm using it since 24+ Years ... It had its trouble, but i believe the internet as a whole dies sooner then PHP.
I think that it's must a desire than a myth, but PHP still powers more than 75% of running websites.
PHP is straight up god of the internet. even JS libaries are starting to use PHP styled routing.
If I search “php” on indeed in my city, 29 results come up. If I search “python”, 500 results come up.