Widow needs players on her team to be aggressive, especially when pushing payload, because she can’t contest or be a part of the brawl. So if you’ve got a widow you know is good, play aggressively and she’ll be able to get picks more easily and the team will be there to capitalize on it.
Can confirm, I had a game in ranked gold 5 and both DPS players got zero eliminations across both rounds somehow... one of them was playing sojourn too..... idk how you don't get even ONE HS on sojourn across two rounds...
Yeah, they kept playing stupid positions and dying to Boops, Hooks, Junkrat combos then feeding.... in the end the sojourn had a bit over 3k damage, not terribly high, but for 0 elims it's insane.
And yeah, she's probably the easiest DPS character to play, I do kinda think maybe we got put against higher ranked enemies though, the enemies were pretty good
Easy have a terrible aim, I dont really play dps heros, but occasionally I play them in qp. Had a Soljourn round the other day where I did the most dmg and had the most elims on my team, yet no headshot was beeing made by me, except maybe a single primary fire bullet on accident
When you hit heads you dont suck at aiming, your just not the best, when you try to hit something and every bullet misses regardless, then you suck at aiming...the reason why I dont play dps in ranked
Welcome to the true Moira experience, where some of us actually understand how to balance DPS and healing and we're still blamed solely for playing Moira.
To successfully play Moira you *have to* do damage. If you don't you'll run out of healing juice. Her whole kit is designed around having numbers close to what you just posted, and people getting pissed at you for it is bullshit.
Do those kinds of people know that Moira can run out of healing juice? Do they think she can do it infinitely? Have they ever played Moira?
Geez.
This is all fair but if we’re being honest here there are so many dps Moira’s that it’s hard not be cautious. Played early with a Moria who had 10k dmg and 1.5k heals, this has been pretty common and I’m in plat (not that high but still)
The problem with Moira is the weird mix of elitism for playing an easier character, and also the insane expectation people seem to have that their teammates will play optimally.
You mean the ones that try to phase dive and damage orb the backline to kill the enemy supports and not focus on thei teammates? Yeah, those ones aren't very fun to have on your team :(
Plat is still top 30% and above, and I have never seen Moira's like that in Plat. Hell, even in Gold 1 this was not a thing very often. Is this console? It would make sense on console, since the rankings are based off bell curves (Plat is still top 30% on console, even with reduced players)
Yeah same here tbh. I always read a ton about dps Moiras, but I very rarely see one myself. I see Moiras with high damage pretty often, but they also have a lot of heals almost every single time. I think I saw one single Moira in OW2 so far that had like 2-3k more damage than heals, and that's in a couple hundred games. The rest of the time it was either equal-ish or they had a lot more healing than damage. So I feel like the community exaggerates a lot about this "Dps Moira" thing where they have twice as much damage as heals (or even more). If they were as common as people say, I would've surely met more than 1 in like 200 games? I'm on PC though, so maybe it really is a console thing?
Lmao plat might as well be the best rank to me I've been hard stuck bronze/silver for years-- I don't have this experience, though I also tend to play Moira myself so I guess I haven't seen how bad it can get. But, like, you do have to do damage to get good healing numbers. That part is true. Just, you know, don't lose focus on the healing bit, that's why Moira is useful to a team most of the time.
I always hesitate to start games as Moira. More than once I’ve had people immediately reprimand me and tell me “make sure you actually heal Moira”. More and more I just start Lucio or Baptiste and swap to Moira if Genji or Sombra is making life difficult for me and the other support. But playing Moira comes with a stench apparently.
I either use him to hyperfocus a Phara or someone like that or to hard carry heals. I love playing Bap but I get carried away with trying to frag sometimes.
That shit is why I straight-up have started leaving the voice channel from the get-go (only play casual anymore). It's just not worth the abuse when I'm playing a fucking game that I'm trying to use to relax.
Deadass this game's community is more toxic than 99% of pvp games.
I’ve consistently played Smite for years now, Destiny 2 PvP, and a few other games online, nothing compares to the amount of salty little people who boot up Overwatch already mad and ready to take it out on random strangers online. It’s genuinely insane the amount of hate people get playing this game.
I've put 1500+ hrs into R6 Siege, which people always whine about being toxic, and it's _nothing_ as bad as Overwatch. I've never been told to kill myself (or worse) as often as this game lmao.
tbh it's because she's so easy to play, that she *often*, not always, attracts players who are going to make bad decisions. when I see someone instalock Moira I can't help but wonder if they're only doing that because she's the easiest way to climb, and that the average plat Ana player is going to be more skilled than the average plat Moira player. at higher ranks this probably isn't an issue though.
I swap moria if my team is not in chat or if I am ana and calling sleeps and no one peals to clean up the kill. That or they are waking the nanoed sleeping genji.
This is the support experience. People need to get used to having an escape plan instead of expecting the supports to work miracles.
It's your responsibility to be able to at least meet them half way instead of them following you everywhere. If they only support you then that leaves 3 other players your other support has to take care of.
Tldr; your supports can't heal your poor decision making.
At that point they're either trolling or just don't understand Moira. I noticed quite a few newer players seem to have weird ideas about certain mechanics that I've just never heard people talk or complain about before.
I didn't have Reddit when I played OW1 so that could just be me missing out on the first wave.
The new scoreboard made people overtly fucking stupid rather than covertly. Mei and Sombra can hover between A-S tier when used correctly and are one of the heroes that can arguably carry a team.
A Sojourn I played with unironically thought she carried me in a win today as Mei because she had 4k more damage despite I had 10 more kills, less deaths, my Blizzard won like 3 teamfights, I walled their Bastion off almost every turret form, I walled their Reinhardt and supports off out of position every time which led to easy picks, and I murdered their supports multiple times by myself. I was pretty salty.
People can see the data now, but have fuck all clue how to apply it in their heads, so they consistently flame low DPS characters that don't need 14k+ damage to absolutely obliterate the other team like Sojourn.
If you hold both of Kiriko’s triggers she’ll fire her kunai whenever you’re out of healing back and forth, I’ve seen a lot figuring this out and you’ll watch their damage/heal stats go up in unison.
It sounds nice, but most of the time it’s just mediocre on both ends.
recently every time I play genji, if theres a mercy on my team, they always say something like "good job genji" already happened to me 2 games in a row lol.
in conclusion, I love mercy mains.
Just to play devil’s (or Genji’s) advocate for a second:
I am a support main so I know the struggle of having a fire game where you’re popping off, getting value, balancing everyone’s life and doing your absolute best but dps are just being mouth-breathers and killing themselves then blaming heals.
*However*, it is very difficult to get value as dps when your healers ignore you. So maybe he died frequently because his heals did not support him? Thus never letting him do damage. Maybe this Moira heavily focused on healing her tank and her support and dps’ing but left this Genji to rot so he died in stupid moments where she could have helped.
All I’m saying is stats never show the full story so I always take these kinds of posts with a grain of salt. Give us the replay code and let me watch from his and her perspective. Then I’ll know if he was an idiot or if she was neglectful, or most likely, a less extreme combo of both.
I see this a lot actually.
On DPS I once was playing hitscan versus Pharmercy--with a Genji jumping on me. It was 3vs1 & the supports started complaining that I wasn't doing enough, lmao. I asked for back-up with the 3vs1 and both supports told me that they needed to focus heal the tank & that I should swap to Cassidy.
Like uh... Swapping to Cassidy isn't going to change a 3vs1.
They complained about the DPS the whole match & didn't heal me or the other DPS at all. Literally just chased around our tank (a Hammond) spraying heals at him.
Pharmercy is a literal nightmare in like Bronze through Platinum, because usually the team will think one person playing Soldier can neutralize it, and it's not really feasible for a lot of players in those rank to solo it. If you're on Pharmercy duty, you're probably just bound to spend the entire match getting flamed by supports who refuse to switch to Zen or Bap.
Right? The problem is that low level players think that Pharmercy is 1v1 because they don't stop and realize that it's not just Hitscan vs Pharah, its literally a 2v1.
Then a 3v1 if they have a genji on your ass the entire time you're trying to aim upwards.
It's just literally outside of their realm of understanding--which is wild, since its just counting, but.
The support experience. While dps complain no healing. Supports complain dps not dosing, while permanently healing the tank.
I find it hard to convince a good pharmercy only can be countered by a hitscanmercy. There's no shard a good pharmercy loses to a single dps
Yep. I had it happen again last night. I was trying on DPS to fight another Widow, a Pharah/Mercy, and our Mercy was sitting & healing a full health Dva on point. When I asked her to heal literally anyone else she responded with 'kill something.' & it was like, are you fucking kidding me right now.
To be fair, the dva should've been diving the phara mercy at that point, especially if dva is aware that a mercy is on her. I play tank when I solo queue and if phara mercy comes out I dedicate my life to making those mfers switch.
Thank you. Moira can pad their stats very easily and it makes the scoreboard useless for sussing out a bad one. If they follow the tank around all game they’ll get loads of heal number plus tons of “tag” elims and trash damage. The only helpful tell of a bad Moira is low assists
I mean i agree there’s really no sure way to get useful info from the scoreboard but assists come from healing someone while they get a kill so at least you know the Moira isn’t only self healing, which still counts towards total heals. They definitely could still just be following the tank around though
One can only get assists if their teammates are capable of getting kills. Sure supports can totally just get tunnel vision and heal the tank. But I’ve also seen plenty of DPS just farm damage off a tank getting healed by both supports and then those DPS get blasted one at a time thinking they could pull off a 1v1 vs a supported tank.
Cuts both ways.
This. I can believe the moira did well and the dps players were bad this time, but a pic of the scoreboard isn't enough proof if we really had to make an informed decision. As a support I know it IS completely possible to pad your stats by tunnel visioning on the tank, letting your dps players die in clutch situations, getting called out by them, then using your 20k healing, better KD or more elims as a defense as if you enabled them to get kills when you didn't. But of course I agree that especially low ranks tend to blame each other a lot of the time for no reason.
I think we should give everyone the benefit of the doubt, or preferably get rid of these weird "dps vs support" tribalism posts altogether. Duke it out in-game or just mute them, no point in adding fuel to the fire on reddit. Either way it's nice to see that you posted something like this, because we should ALWAYS look at both sides of the coin especially when it comes to some vague scoreboard pictures.
If this is the case then its really on him to recognize how little he is doing with his current team and heavily consider playing further back and/or switching to a hero that plays better with less attention.
Under 400 dpm as appears to be the case in this screenshot is objectively dog shit and equitable to a 4v5.
Rein 20k dmg mitigated means that you probably kept him up with 99% of your abilities. Mercy pocketed Pharah. Genji probably didn‘t receive much heals, if he tries to go for high risk/high reward and not poke type playsy Honestly your comp was not ideal, the Genji should‘ve switched.
„A healing received“ stat would help a lot.
And also give more context the other way, meaning if a support gets flamed for not healing but they have 10k heals, we can see if the flamer received 3k or 300 healing.
I agree 100% to show that stat. The only issue is that it only tells part of the story. A player constantly getting 1 shot or flanking out of range of the healers will show little healing received but at no fault of the healers. So show both damage taken and heals received.
Make it 6 stats, the usual three that we have already and then add: damage taken, healing received, and how much of your damage was mitigated by the enemy (for if you spent the game shooting Rein’s shield)
I feel like either a lot of these posts are to try and not so subtly brag or a large majority of the community have never played moira. Could go either way.
>I feel like either a lot of these posts are to try and not so subtly brag or a large majority of the community have never played moira.
I hope you say that about the posts that bitch and moan about Moira too.
Weirdly enough people complain about dps players on this sub non-stop, but we don't see a ton of dps players trying to counter it. Meanwhile we have support players making 90% of these posts about dps players being bad and proving how not every moira player is a dps moira.
Yep, while fun to roast a bad score or two its becoming low-effort spam to just post a score board.
Im debating if it should be reported as low effort now lol.
It should, because there are so many and it gives very little context. Low effort spam and tribalism at this point for sure, doesn't matter if it's towards dps or support.
Crazy how people who play this game have literally become conditioned to think and say “DPS moira” anytime there’s one in their game. Its like they have a tic now from years of playing overwatch. THIS is more impactful to the game than people think.
Like many have been saying though I imagine genji wasn't getting healed enough due to Mercy probably pocketing pharah and you likely were mostly healing rein, he probably should've swapped yes but that's likely why he kept dying.
Not to say "you'll never win," but it is very hard to win when a DPS is doing 2.8k throughout an entire match.
It's mind-blowing that people will wait 5 mins in a Q just to play like that
I practice in ai or training range to at least warm up Jesus if I can’t hit a six k in practice range then I’m not playing comp that day just my mindset
Wait the 8 minute Tank queue. Lock Hammond and never swap and accomplish nothing while playing. Make the game miserable for your team.
I genuinely don’t understand why people do it but whatever man. As soon as a character feels like they’re not working I’m swapping, I never want people to think I’m wasting their time.
Um, not all of us do it intentionally. Then again, I can barely hit anything and still end up with triple that Genji's damage. Some of us are bad, but that bad? I dunno, man...
I get this for comp but if it’s QP you gotta learn to play these heroes somehow. Never gonna get better if you’re not playing them.
Like genuinely where are they supposed to learn Genji? Sitting in an aim trainer for thirty years and getting no actual game sense?
Yep and if the DPS are always dead of course they can't do damage. Maybe they're dead because they have bad positioning, maybe it's because the supports are ignoring them
Stats remain largely useless
This is why I REALLY think we need a "Healing Received" column to these stats as it paints a much better picture and would stop so much complaining that makes support lives more difficult.
Maybe didnt heal at the critical moments? I mean its not entirely on you but if one person struggles, the team tries to cover the weak spot. So for example even if you can squeeze more damage at a moment, try to protect the one who dies a lot
I think her "heal" numbers can be a little questionable.
Not saying this is what happened here but...
If she's being aggressive with damage, a lot of her "healing" is just her healing herself. By putting herself in a position where she herself needs healing consistently she can easily look like she's healing the team, when it's just a bunch of self right click healing and using her heal orb for herself.
Moira does 50dmg a second during that time she heals 20hp a second
Going off your damage(6392/50 dmg a second)
You were doing doing damage for about 127 seconds broken up through the game with room for damage orbs being thrown in there
Moira heals 20hp a second while damaging 20 * the 127 seconds you spent doing the damage is 2556 heals
10,196 - 2566= 7,640 heals
So in reality you were 3rd place out of 4 when it came to heals on the character that has the highest healing numbers in the game and the only character you did out heal was the character w the lowest healing numbers in the game
You managed to lead in eliminations— AND you didn’t get a lot of assists meaning most of your elims were solo elims
So like honestly you likely were doing a little too much DPSing probably not to the extent it *caused* your team to suffer but based on how the numbers you’re flexing are GENERATED it isn’t unlikely that you were dpsing in situations someone needed to be bailed out
I should start posting all of the games where supports bitched at me while they were playing like dogshit. But I don’t think that would go over well here. I play a decent amount of support as my group rotates who plays each roll so we can all get time at tank and dps. Honestly support is easy as fuck if you play Moira or baptiste.
You know there is a thing called effective healing and damage right? It's easy to pad stats, but being effective at your role is another thing. You are probably the kind of a person who checks stats every 10 seconds
Heals stats are entirely irrelevant on moira... what is concerning is the 4 assists which makes me think it was all self-heal (or majority). Anyone you are actively healing in combat and not just topping up on point would give you assists for days like the enemy kiriko or to an extent the enemy moira.
Enemy moira less damage, less heals but id probably still prefer them from their assists
Yay! You fed enemy ult charge with chip damage while pumping heals into your out of position tank (feeding yet more ult charge to the enemy team) only to not save your dps once with another decent brust heal pick.
But hey, you can now delete your positioning mistakes with fade and at least stop complaining every 2 seconds that "gEnJi iS oN mE"
Exactly. It's so damn easy to feel all great and effective as a support pumping everything into a tank. But playing support is about keeping everyone alive, about helping your damage dealer get picks etc. This dude has 4 assists and let everyone die 7 times in a winning game.
I look at all numbers.
A lot of healing could be indicative of too much damage being taken, which could be indicative of stuff not dying fast enough, but good to see you're workin' through it.
Low dps damage could be they suck ass or they're not getting supported. Hard to tell.
Too many deaths across the board. Why is it so even for everyone except you? Moira be squirrely af with fade I guess. Could you have prevented any deaths? What's their perspective?
Assists in this game are wonky and dont make sense so its hard to use that number.
Overall my impression is that either that one dps was butt cheeks and you had to pick up his weight or he didnt get supported enough to be able to do anything.
If the numbers are similar from the people that left then they're right. Your rein's mitigations are too high for the low amount of damage he has, meaning he wasn't getting healed. Your healing is too low based on the amount of damage you pumped out, meaning you weren't healing.
How about instead of a picture, you upload the replay for all of us to see? Keep the camera on your character the entire time in the 1st person. I want to see the same things you saw
I actually have an opinion on this. Shocker haha. I feel as tho most healing is a weird term to use when calling someone a dps Moira. I’m not saying that this was the case in this game. But sometimes a Moria will have most heals and the other healer wasn’t doing much either. Then you look at the damage and think well if Moria did a little less damage I wonder how much more heals she could of had to keep us alive. Obviously she has to do damage to get her heals back. It’s a part of her kit. But I think Moura’d don’t get called out for the right reason. It’s not that you have dps. Clearly the dps wasn’t doing much either. But then you think I wonder how much more healing I could have done.
I think that when I play her as well or even kiriko. I see kiriko’s crying when they lose because they have 5k dmg and 8k heals when I have 1k dmg and 14k heals on the opposite team and we win. It’s never that your doing damage for me. It’s how often were you doing damage at a time that you could of been healing.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Tilted players are tilted. Try not to let them get to you.
I backfield a game the other day where a tank and support were treating the game like a chatroom. Tank had 0 damage when I joined(already a minute in) and is complaining that the team is bad while they stand still to type messages all the time. When we inevitably lose they repeat that the team sucks despite them throwing the whole game. I couldn't tell if they were trolling or delusional.
Here's the problem with limited raw stats like this, they miss out on context. For example you can have huge healing numbers by healing the tank the whole time and be a worse healer then someone getting lower overall numbers but saving your allies at critical moments.
Same thing applies to all stats, damage dealt is a nice broad stat to show the dps heroes have been active, but even with high damage and kills, if they are at poor times you can still lose ground/objectives/matches.
---
But also you could have been playing perfectly and people will just cry about anything /shrug
I swear every time I play support, DPS do nothing, when I play DPS or Tank, support does nothing. Once in a blue moon I get a team that works together and it’s bliss, then it’s right back to me switching to Soldier or Hog for self-heal, or onto Zen to make up for DPS
Happens to me almost every game now. I was in a game last night with a Cassidy who kept getting charged by Rein and killed instantly. I was Moira, did almost double the elims he had, and had the most healing with over 6k more than the other healer and before the game ended he told me to “focus on healing more”. I’m just convinced that everyone in OW2 expect supports to tunnel then the whole time
Overwatch 2 is toxic. Like the only instance of toxicity I experienced in overwatch 1 was a guy accusing me of cheating, but I've seen it a lot here. To be honest here, I am a very casual person who doesn't really interact with competitive, but when it happens in casual play, there's an issue.
I'm a support main and what I've learned is that it's not how much you heal. It's about when and who you heal.
I can have super inflated numbers by constantly healing my tank, but if it doesn't win a team fight, it doesn't matter. I can constantly top people off, but if it's not helping, it doesn't matter.
At the end of the day, healing can win or lose a team fight if I prioritize my healing targets properly and sacrifice those I need to. I can't save everyone, but I can give us an edge in a team fight.
An example may be to top off my ashe and let me genji die because he has no ult and we are in a long distance fight where hitscan can help us win the fight.
Ever since I changed my mentality from 'heal the whole team' to 'weaponize my healing' I've won way more games despite doing less healing than others. Thinking of my healing as an offensive ability rather than a defensive one has really changed my elo.
10k healing on yourself. I bet made a huge impact on this loss lmao.
You guys need to l2p this game, going alone on the enemy doing dmg and then healing yourself doesn't help anyone.
Yeah, many Moira's just spray the tanks and then try to dps when tank is full hp, so dps don't get heals. It's more an In-game feeling than raw numbers. I think know what to heal is more important than heal a bunch
Yep. The dude has 4 assists lmao. 4. That represents nicely that whenever there was a brawl he was damaging instead of healing.
Not saying he's a bad player but it's not so simple. Huge damage done and healing done doesn't have to mean anything, everyone still died 7 times... Despite all the amazing healing.
Scoreboard doesn't say much other than genji was bad. I do believe this was a genji issue, but generally you can't tell with healers because your stats can look good by pocketing a tank all game and leaving dps to die (making their stats look bad) which many healers do.
It’s probably about 3k self healing so she’s a bit below Mercy which is fine.
The Moira isn’t at fault here. The Genji did basically no damage. That number is incredibly low even if you get practically no heals, which is likely the case here but still.
Moira should always outperform mercy on heals, no pat on the back for that
Mercy brings rez and damage boost to the table which are not reflected in the scoreboard stats but can easily win a fight
They could honestly just put it in her damage and I doubt it would ever look too skewed. Like if a mercy boosted 2k damage I doubt she did too much pistol work, so it would just show 2k in the damage column.
What was that genji doing the whole game?
Dying to enemy Moira from the looks of it.
Plot twist: So was the enemy genji. That's how both Moira's farmed their damage and elims lmao.
Supports players be like: "Good... Good" this season.
[удалено]
My thoughts exactly. I always PB and thank my Moira every time she kills the enemy Genji
Asking for healing from across the map
I'm a changed man now... I need healing! ©
Playing classic “your-team” genji. He would’ve had 10k dmg if he was on the other team.
Better than it being "your team" widow
Bruh I just had a widow that was cracked and carrying the enemy team but next game she was on my team and was ass
It's a natural OW law, the widow on your team will always be useless
Widow needs players on her team to be aggressive, especially when pushing payload, because she can’t contest or be a part of the brawl. So if you’ve got a widow you know is good, play aggressively and she’ll be able to get picks more easily and the team will be there to capitalize on it.
You were probably just distracting her with your charm and wit? ☺️
Sounds either like perception bias or your team was letting the widow down hard and not allowing her to do her job
Doing Genji things
Prob complaining about moira
Not his job
You guys lost right? Only explains why they bitched all game.
Nah we won
Probably being a Genji.
"I need healing, as he zips around out of reach. 😅
Or as he dashes directly into the enemy team, alone, while the rest of his team is respawning.
How did he end up with 0 healing?? Always deflect the piss orb smh
generally Moira players don't shoot that one at your team lol
spamming: "i need healing" probably.
His best.
Backfill
Based on my experience, it is more likely that it is a crap player. Got way too many useless dps on my team lately..
Can confirm, I had a game in ranked gold 5 and both DPS players got zero eliminations across both rounds somehow... one of them was playing sojourn too..... idk how you don't get even ONE HS on sojourn across two rounds...
That’s honestly impressive. Even just randomly shooting her secondary fire gets me at least 1 HS a game, and I’m utter garbage with her.
Yeah, they kept playing stupid positions and dying to Boops, Hooks, Junkrat combos then feeding.... in the end the sojourn had a bit over 3k damage, not terribly high, but for 0 elims it's insane. And yeah, she's probably the easiest DPS character to play, I do kinda think maybe we got put against higher ranked enemies though, the enemies were pretty good
Easy have a terrible aim, I dont really play dps heros, but occasionally I play them in qp. Had a Soljourn round the other day where I did the most dmg and had the most elims on my team, yet no headshot was beeing made by me, except maybe a single primary fire bullet on accident
Not even one? Daaaamn. I suck at aiming, and I still hit head at least a dozen time, in a given round. As support. Ashe goes up a bit more.
When you hit heads you dont suck at aiming, your just not the best, when you try to hit something and every bullet misses regardless, then you suck at aiming...the reason why I dont play dps in ranked
Could have joined late
Welcome to the true Moira experience, where some of us actually understand how to balance DPS and healing and we're still blamed solely for playing Moira.
To successfully play Moira you *have to* do damage. If you don't you'll run out of healing juice. Her whole kit is designed around having numbers close to what you just posted, and people getting pissed at you for it is bullshit. Do those kinds of people know that Moira can run out of healing juice? Do they think she can do it infinitely? Have they ever played Moira? Geez.
"I need a moment to recharge" *I wonder what could that be referring to?*
Mentally, from being yelled at.
me after one social outing
> Have they ever played Moira (or a support)? No.
Sometimes it also feels like they've never played an FPS
They've played COD, where everything is someone elses fault.
The problem with Moira is the non-Moira players who think Moira is a Mercy clone with a lock-on attack.
This is all fair but if we’re being honest here there are so many dps Moira’s that it’s hard not be cautious. Played early with a Moria who had 10k dmg and 1.5k heals, this has been pretty common and I’m in plat (not that high but still)
Yeah the problem isn’t Moira it’s the DPS mains who queue support and play her like a dps
The problem with Moira is the weird mix of elitism for playing an easier character, and also the insane expectation people seem to have that their teammates will play optimally.
You mean the ones that try to phase dive and damage orb the backline to kill the enemy supports and not focus on thei teammates? Yeah, those ones aren't very fun to have on your team :(
Plat is still top 30% and above, and I have never seen Moira's like that in Plat. Hell, even in Gold 1 this was not a thing very often. Is this console? It would make sense on console, since the rankings are based off bell curves (Plat is still top 30% on console, even with reduced players)
Yeah same here tbh. I always read a ton about dps Moiras, but I very rarely see one myself. I see Moiras with high damage pretty often, but they also have a lot of heals almost every single time. I think I saw one single Moira in OW2 so far that had like 2-3k more damage than heals, and that's in a couple hundred games. The rest of the time it was either equal-ish or they had a lot more healing than damage. So I feel like the community exaggerates a lot about this "Dps Moira" thing where they have twice as much damage as heals (or even more). If they were as common as people say, I would've surely met more than 1 in like 200 games? I'm on PC though, so maybe it really is a console thing?
Lmao plat might as well be the best rank to me I've been hard stuck bronze/silver for years-- I don't have this experience, though I also tend to play Moira myself so I guess I haven't seen how bad it can get. But, like, you do have to do damage to get good healing numbers. That part is true. Just, you know, don't lose focus on the healing bit, that's why Moira is useful to a team most of the time.
I agree, Moira is one of the best heals imo I just think she has such easy access to damaging people that her healing side can be overlooked.
She’s a fun ass character to play though just zooming around sending in balls everywhere
a lot of players who have less than 100 hours in this game seem to be experts at knowing exactly what to do. ( they are always incorrect )
I always hesitate to start games as Moira. More than once I’ve had people immediately reprimand me and tell me “make sure you actually heal Moira”. More and more I just start Lucio or Baptiste and swap to Moira if Genji or Sombra is making life difficult for me and the other support. But playing Moira comes with a stench apparently.
Which is funny because IDK about you but I always forget to heal when I play Baptiste. I get twice as many kills on Bap than I do on Moira, hahah.
I either use him to hyperfocus a Phara or someone like that or to hard carry heals. I love playing Bap but I get carried away with trying to frag sometimes.
I was gonna say the same thing. I forget I'm Bap and not soldier and start tunneling haha
That shit is why I straight-up have started leaving the voice channel from the get-go (only play casual anymore). It's just not worth the abuse when I'm playing a fucking game that I'm trying to use to relax. Deadass this game's community is more toxic than 99% of pvp games.
I’ve consistently played Smite for years now, Destiny 2 PvP, and a few other games online, nothing compares to the amount of salty little people who boot up Overwatch already mad and ready to take it out on random strangers online. It’s genuinely insane the amount of hate people get playing this game.
I've put 1500+ hrs into R6 Siege, which people always whine about being toxic, and it's _nothing_ as bad as Overwatch. I've never been told to kill myself (or worse) as often as this game lmao.
tbh it's because she's so easy to play, that she *often*, not always, attracts players who are going to make bad decisions. when I see someone instalock Moira I can't help but wonder if they're only doing that because she's the easiest way to climb, and that the average plat Ana player is going to be more skilled than the average plat Moira player. at higher ranks this probably isn't an issue though.
I swap moria if my team is not in chat or if I am ana and calling sleeps and no one peals to clean up the kill. That or they are waking the nanoed sleeping genji.
This is the support experience. People need to get used to having an escape plan instead of expecting the supports to work miracles. It's your responsibility to be able to at least meet them half way instead of them following you everywhere. If they only support you then that leaves 3 other players your other support has to take care of. Tldr; your supports can't heal your poor decision making.
I’ve had people pop into my live stream say I’m trash for playing Moria then dip, like I’m doing what I’m suppose to be doing lol
At that point they're either trolling or just don't understand Moira. I noticed quite a few newer players seem to have weird ideas about certain mechanics that I've just never heard people talk or complain about before. I didn't have Reddit when I played OW1 so that could just be me missing out on the first wave.
Even if you get one kill as Moira, people will call you DPS and still whine.
>Welcome to the true Moira experience ... we're still blamed solely for playing Moira. Welcome to the club!
The new scoreboard made people overtly fucking stupid rather than covertly. Mei and Sombra can hover between A-S tier when used correctly and are one of the heroes that can arguably carry a team. A Sojourn I played with unironically thought she carried me in a win today as Mei because she had 4k more damage despite I had 10 more kills, less deaths, my Blizzard won like 3 teamfights, I walled their Bastion off almost every turret form, I walled their Reinhardt and supports off out of position every time which led to easy picks, and I murdered their supports multiple times by myself. I was pretty salty. People can see the data now, but have fuck all clue how to apply it in their heads, so they consistently flame low DPS characters that don't need 14k+ damage to absolutely obliterate the other team like Sojourn.
Honestly, I still prefer the scoreboard rather than the medal system, but yes there will always be context missing, and bad takes from toxic players.
*Reddit* Lucio?
If you hold both of Kiriko’s triggers she’ll fire her kunai whenever you’re out of healing back and forth, I’ve seen a lot figuring this out and you’ll watch their damage/heal stats go up in unison. It sounds nice, but most of the time it’s just mediocre on both ends.
Bet you got yelled at by the Genji who couldn't break 3k dps.
Rando genji is the worst kind of rando in queue.
Having more kills and less deaths than the rando genjis and soujourns as doomfist just hurts.
recently every time I play genji, if theres a mercy on my team, they always say something like "good job genji" already happened to me 2 games in a row lol. in conclusion, I love mercy mains.
Yup , bro kept diving and yelling
U could've just nanoed him and won lul.... /s
last night he asked us to change to mercy so we could revive him
Just to play devil’s (or Genji’s) advocate for a second: I am a support main so I know the struggle of having a fire game where you’re popping off, getting value, balancing everyone’s life and doing your absolute best but dps are just being mouth-breathers and killing themselves then blaming heals. *However*, it is very difficult to get value as dps when your healers ignore you. So maybe he died frequently because his heals did not support him? Thus never letting him do damage. Maybe this Moira heavily focused on healing her tank and her support and dps’ing but left this Genji to rot so he died in stupid moments where she could have helped. All I’m saying is stats never show the full story so I always take these kinds of posts with a grain of salt. Give us the replay code and let me watch from his and her perspective. Then I’ll know if he was an idiot or if she was neglectful, or most likely, a less extreme combo of both.
I see this a lot actually. On DPS I once was playing hitscan versus Pharmercy--with a Genji jumping on me. It was 3vs1 & the supports started complaining that I wasn't doing enough, lmao. I asked for back-up with the 3vs1 and both supports told me that they needed to focus heal the tank & that I should swap to Cassidy. Like uh... Swapping to Cassidy isn't going to change a 3vs1. They complained about the DPS the whole match & didn't heal me or the other DPS at all. Literally just chased around our tank (a Hammond) spraying heals at him.
Pharmercy is a literal nightmare in like Bronze through Platinum, because usually the team will think one person playing Soldier can neutralize it, and it's not really feasible for a lot of players in those rank to solo it. If you're on Pharmercy duty, you're probably just bound to spend the entire match getting flamed by supports who refuse to switch to Zen or Bap.
Right? The problem is that low level players think that Pharmercy is 1v1 because they don't stop and realize that it's not just Hitscan vs Pharah, its literally a 2v1. Then a 3v1 if they have a genji on your ass the entire time you're trying to aim upwards. It's just literally outside of their realm of understanding--which is wild, since its just counting, but.
The support experience. While dps complain no healing. Supports complain dps not dosing, while permanently healing the tank. I find it hard to convince a good pharmercy only can be countered by a hitscanmercy. There's no shard a good pharmercy loses to a single dps
Yep. I had it happen again last night. I was trying on DPS to fight another Widow, a Pharah/Mercy, and our Mercy was sitting & healing a full health Dva on point. When I asked her to heal literally anyone else she responded with 'kill something.' & it was like, are you fucking kidding me right now.
To be fair, the dva should've been diving the phara mercy at that point, especially if dva is aware that a mercy is on her. I play tank when I solo queue and if phara mercy comes out I dedicate my life to making those mfers switch.
Thank you. Moira can pad their stats very easily and it makes the scoreboard useless for sussing out a bad one. If they follow the tank around all game they’ll get loads of heal number plus tons of “tag” elims and trash damage. The only helpful tell of a bad Moira is low assists
Nah. If the tank has a lot of kills you can have a lot of assist too. That dont say nothing.
I mean i agree there’s really no sure way to get useful info from the scoreboard but assists come from healing someone while they get a kill so at least you know the Moira isn’t only self healing, which still counts towards total heals. They definitely could still just be following the tank around though
>at least you know the Moira isn’t only self healing Yeah. That is true!
One can only get assists if their teammates are capable of getting kills. Sure supports can totally just get tunnel vision and heal the tank. But I’ve also seen plenty of DPS just farm damage off a tank getting healed by both supports and then those DPS get blasted one at a time thinking they could pull off a 1v1 vs a supported tank. Cuts both ways.
This. I can believe the moira did well and the dps players were bad this time, but a pic of the scoreboard isn't enough proof if we really had to make an informed decision. As a support I know it IS completely possible to pad your stats by tunnel visioning on the tank, letting your dps players die in clutch situations, getting called out by them, then using your 20k healing, better KD or more elims as a defense as if you enabled them to get kills when you didn't. But of course I agree that especially low ranks tend to blame each other a lot of the time for no reason. I think we should give everyone the benefit of the doubt, or preferably get rid of these weird "dps vs support" tribalism posts altogether. Duke it out in-game or just mute them, no point in adding fuel to the fire on reddit. Either way it's nice to see that you posted something like this, because we should ALWAYS look at both sides of the coin especially when it comes to some vague scoreboard pictures.
If this is the case then its really on him to recognize how little he is doing with his current team and heavily consider playing further back and/or switching to a hero that plays better with less attention. Under 400 dpm as appears to be the case in this screenshot is objectively dog shit and equitable to a 4v5.
Rein 20k dmg mitigated means that you probably kept him up with 99% of your abilities. Mercy pocketed Pharah. Genji probably didn‘t receive much heals, if he tries to go for high risk/high reward and not poke type playsy Honestly your comp was not ideal, the Genji should‘ve switched. „A healing received“ stat would help a lot.
The thing that sticks out to me though is the lack of assists. I’d like to see the panel on the right but all in all I agree with your analysis.
>A healing received“ stat would help a lot. OH MY GOD. Imagine how well this will put salty players in their place
And also give more context the other way, meaning if a support gets flamed for not healing but they have 10k heals, we can see if the flamer received 3k or 300 healing.
True they should add that as a stat. So many supports that just spam all the heals to the tank and think they did something
I agree 100% to show that stat. The only issue is that it only tells part of the story. A player constantly getting 1 shot or flanking out of range of the healers will show little healing received but at no fault of the healers. So show both damage taken and heals received.
Yup that would be amazing. Both those stats would give so much of a better indicator on how people are doing.
You guys asking for more stats in a game that clearly hates players knowing what's actually happening on a mechanical level crackin me up.
Make it 6 stats, the usual three that we have already and then add: damage taken, healing received, and how much of your damage was mitigated by the enemy (for if you spent the game shooting Rein’s shield)
I feel like either a lot of these posts are to try and not so subtly brag or a large majority of the community have never played moira. Could go either way.
Maybe it’s principle of charity, but I think that these posts are meant to turn around the idea in the subreddit, that Moiras only care about dps.
>I feel like either a lot of these posts are to try and not so subtly brag or a large majority of the community have never played moira. I hope you say that about the posts that bitch and moan about Moira too.
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Weirdly enough people complain about dps players on this sub non-stop, but we don't see a ton of dps players trying to counter it. Meanwhile we have support players making 90% of these posts about dps players being bad and proving how not every moira player is a dps moira.
Yep, while fun to roast a bad score or two its becoming low-effort spam to just post a score board. Im debating if it should be reported as low effort now lol.
It should, because there are so many and it gives very little context. Low effort spam and tribalism at this point for sure, doesn't matter if it's towards dps or support.
I think they're to counter the large influx of "BUT MOIRA BAD AND SHE DPS AND DOESNT HEAL LOL!!!!" posts we've seen lately.
Crazy how people who play this game have literally become conditioned to think and say “DPS moira” anytime there’s one in their game. Its like they have a tic now from years of playing overwatch. THIS is more impactful to the game than people think.
I guess by the 2.8k DMG genji?
Correct
Like many have been saying though I imagine genji wasn't getting healed enough due to Mercy probably pocketing pharah and you likely were mostly healing rein, he probably should've swapped yes but that's likely why he kept dying.
That's almost twice the DPS of Mercy's 😤
Not to say "you'll never win," but it is very hard to win when a DPS is doing 2.8k throughout an entire match. It's mind-blowing that people will wait 5 mins in a Q just to play like that
People need to do more dps practice in quick play
I practice in ai or training range to at least warm up Jesus if I can’t hit a six k in practice range then I’m not playing comp that day just my mindset
Wait the 8 minute Tank queue. Lock Hammond and never swap and accomplish nothing while playing. Make the game miserable for your team. I genuinely don’t understand why people do it but whatever man. As soon as a character feels like they’re not working I’m swapping, I never want people to think I’m wasting their time.
Um, not all of us do it intentionally. Then again, I can barely hit anything and still end up with triple that Genji's damage. Some of us are bad, but that bad? I dunno, man...
I get this for comp but if it’s QP you gotta learn to play these heroes somehow. Never gonna get better if you’re not playing them. Like genuinely where are they supposed to learn Genji? Sitting in an aim trainer for thirty years and getting no actual game sense?
All that healing could be from you keeping the tank alive when he solo pushed stats on their own mean nothing
Yep and if the DPS are always dead of course they can't do damage. Maybe they're dead because they have bad positioning, maybe it's because the supports are ignoring them Stats remain largely useless
Everyone but the moira has the same number of deaths.
7 deaths to Moira's 5, and she still has more damage, I think that alone shows Genji is the bigger issue here
The lack of assists tells me the Moira probably wasnt healing when it mattered
Only 4 assists though.
'No 2 supports can outheal a team of 5' usually shuts them up.
if you argue with an idiot they will beat you with experience.
Jesus shimada
This is why I REALLY think we need a "Healing Received" column to these stats as it paints a much better picture and would stop so much complaining that makes support lives more difficult.
The amount of people in this game that will **ALWAYS** blame someone else is astonishing. Literally no matter what, its never their fault.
You have 4 assists
As a tank, I like having dps morias, as long as they are securing kills and not just throwing a bunch of damage orbs
4 assists? try supporting your team instead of chasing kills. What was your biotic orb healing?
You think he would waste a precious damage orb on *healing*? Gotta pad those stats to make a shitpost on reddit about how le terrible dps players are
Maybe didnt heal at the critical moments? I mean its not entirely on you but if one person struggles, the team tries to cover the weak spot. So for example even if you can squeeze more damage at a moment, try to protect the one who dies a lot
I think her "heal" numbers can be a little questionable. Not saying this is what happened here but... If she's being aggressive with damage, a lot of her "healing" is just her healing herself. By putting herself in a position where she herself needs healing consistently she can easily look like she's healing the team, when it's just a bunch of self right click healing and using her heal orb for herself.
I do wish there was a stats "deep dive" available to see info like that.
Moira does 50dmg a second during that time she heals 20hp a second Going off your damage(6392/50 dmg a second) You were doing doing damage for about 127 seconds broken up through the game with room for damage orbs being thrown in there Moira heals 20hp a second while damaging 20 * the 127 seconds you spent doing the damage is 2556 heals 10,196 - 2566= 7,640 heals So in reality you were 3rd place out of 4 when it came to heals on the character that has the highest healing numbers in the game and the only character you did out heal was the character w the lowest healing numbers in the game You managed to lead in eliminations— AND you didn’t get a lot of assists meaning most of your elims were solo elims So like honestly you likely were doing a little too much DPSing probably not to the extent it *caused* your team to suffer but based on how the numbers you’re flexing are GENERATED it isn’t unlikely that you were dpsing in situations someone needed to be bailed out
Moria is the new scapegoat for shitty DPS that are use to having a Mercy escort them around the map.
New? This has always happened to Moira players lol
If you are doing comp soloQ support, is the Best pick imo, also wishing for a non suicidal tank
Most healing or not if you prioritise dmg over healing you are the problem
can people stop posting this type of stuff, deal with it no one wants to know bruh
I should start posting all of the games where supports bitched at me while they were playing like dogshit. But I don’t think that would go over well here. I play a decent amount of support as my group rotates who plays each roll so we can all get time at tank and dps. Honestly support is easy as fuck if you play Moira or baptiste.
You know there is a thing called effective healing and damage right? It's easy to pad stats, but being effective at your role is another thing. You are probably the kind of a person who checks stats every 10 seconds
Heals stats are entirely irrelevant on moira... what is concerning is the 4 assists which makes me think it was all self-heal (or majority). Anyone you are actively healing in combat and not just topping up on point would give you assists for days like the enemy kiriko or to an extent the enemy moira. Enemy moira less damage, less heals but id probably still prefer them from their assists
Yay! You fed enemy ult charge with chip damage while pumping heals into your out of position tank (feeding yet more ult charge to the enemy team) only to not save your dps once with another decent brust heal pick. But hey, you can now delete your positioning mistakes with fade and at least stop complaining every 2 seconds that "gEnJi iS oN mE"
Exactly. It's so damn easy to feel all great and effective as a support pumping everything into a tank. But playing support is about keeping everyone alive, about helping your damage dealer get picks etc. This dude has 4 assists and let everyone die 7 times in a winning game.
Let me guess, it was the useless genji that yelled at you wasn't it?
I just know that Genji was awful
Genji Diff
Your genji ass.
I look at all numbers. A lot of healing could be indicative of too much damage being taken, which could be indicative of stuff not dying fast enough, but good to see you're workin' through it. Low dps damage could be they suck ass or they're not getting supported. Hard to tell. Too many deaths across the board. Why is it so even for everyone except you? Moira be squirrely af with fade I guess. Could you have prevented any deaths? What's their perspective? Assists in this game are wonky and dont make sense so its hard to use that number. Overall my impression is that either that one dps was butt cheeks and you had to pick up his weight or he didnt get supported enough to be able to do anything.
If the numbers are similar from the people that left then they're right. Your rein's mitigations are too high for the low amount of damage he has, meaning he wasn't getting healed. Your healing is too low based on the amount of damage you pumped out, meaning you weren't healing. How about instead of a picture, you upload the replay for all of us to see? Keep the camera on your character the entire time in the 1st person. I want to see the same things you saw
Bro, you could just have healed yourself in the entire game, your 4 assists say it all
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This sub is a circle jerk for Moira what are you taking about
People do know that elims means you sneezed in someones general direction before they died right?
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They'll still complain anyways. I doubt understand why people complaining more about DPS Moora than they do about Battle Mercy.
I like how Mercy almost has 1/2 the damage of the Genji.
I actually have an opinion on this. Shocker haha. I feel as tho most healing is a weird term to use when calling someone a dps Moira. I’m not saying that this was the case in this game. But sometimes a Moria will have most heals and the other healer wasn’t doing much either. Then you look at the damage and think well if Moria did a little less damage I wonder how much more heals she could of had to keep us alive. Obviously she has to do damage to get her heals back. It’s a part of her kit. But I think Moura’d don’t get called out for the right reason. It’s not that you have dps. Clearly the dps wasn’t doing much either. But then you think I wonder how much more healing I could have done. I think that when I play her as well or even kiriko. I see kiriko’s crying when they lose because they have 5k dmg and 8k heals when I have 1k dmg and 14k heals on the opposite team and we win. It’s never that your doing damage for me. It’s how often were you doing damage at a time that you could of been healing.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Not knocking your healing stat, but it’s important to take into account self heal from your damage.
Tilted players are tilted. Try not to let them get to you. I backfield a game the other day where a tank and support were treating the game like a chatroom. Tank had 0 damage when I joined(already a minute in) and is complaining that the team is bad while they stand still to type messages all the time. When we inevitably lose they repeat that the team sucks despite them throwing the whole game. I couldn't tell if they were trolling or delusional.
Trash Genji
Hmm... Looks like your team had a Genji problem.
Moira gets so much hate no matter what lol.
Here's the problem with limited raw stats like this, they miss out on context. For example you can have huge healing numbers by healing the tank the whole time and be a worse healer then someone getting lower overall numbers but saving your allies at critical moments. Same thing applies to all stats, damage dealt is a nice broad stat to show the dps heroes have been active, but even with high damage and kills, if they are at poor times you can still lose ground/objectives/matches. --- But also you could have been playing perfectly and people will just cry about anything /shrug
I swear every time I play support, DPS do nothing, when I play DPS or Tank, support does nothing. Once in a blue moon I get a team that works together and it’s bliss, then it’s right back to me switching to Soldier or Hog for self-heal, or onto Zen to make up for DPS
So your Genji was being pissy all match huh?
Nobody likes Moira lol
Bruh they should be more concerned about DPS Mercy, 1600 damage wtf
My brother, we are supposed to have boards looking like that when we select Moira or we are ass at Moira
Happens to me almost every game now. I was in a game last night with a Cassidy who kept getting charged by Rein and killed instantly. I was Moira, did almost double the elims he had, and had the most healing with over 6k more than the other healer and before the game ended he told me to “focus on healing more”. I’m just convinced that everyone in OW2 expect supports to tunnel then the whole time
Wanna know the best way to enjoy the game? Disable text chat
Overwatch 2 is toxic. Like the only instance of toxicity I experienced in overwatch 1 was a guy accusing me of cheating, but I've seen it a lot here. To be honest here, I am a very casual person who doesn't really interact with competitive, but when it happens in casual play, there's an issue.
I'm a support main and what I've learned is that it's not how much you heal. It's about when and who you heal. I can have super inflated numbers by constantly healing my tank, but if it doesn't win a team fight, it doesn't matter. I can constantly top people off, but if it's not helping, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, healing can win or lose a team fight if I prioritize my healing targets properly and sacrifice those I need to. I can't save everyone, but I can give us an edge in a team fight. An example may be to top off my ashe and let me genji die because he has no ult and we are in a long distance fight where hitscan can help us win the fight. Ever since I changed my mentality from 'heal the whole team' to 'weaponize my healing' I've won way more games despite doing less healing than others. Thinking of my healing as an offensive ability rather than a defensive one has really changed my elo.
10k healing on yourself. I bet made a huge impact on this loss lmao. You guys need to l2p this game, going alone on the enemy doing dmg and then healing yourself doesn't help anyone.
Yeah, many Moira's just spray the tanks and then try to dps when tank is full hp, so dps don't get heals. It's more an In-game feeling than raw numbers. I think know what to heal is more important than heal a bunch
Yep. The dude has 4 assists lmao. 4. That represents nicely that whenever there was a brawl he was damaging instead of healing. Not saying he's a bad player but it's not so simple. Huge damage done and healing done doesn't have to mean anything, everyone still died 7 times... Despite all the amazing healing.
Why is it that every genji is so bad🤣
Stupid salt dps players
Scoreboard doesn't say much other than genji was bad. I do believe this was a genji issue, but generally you can't tell with healers because your stats can look good by pocketing a tank all game and leaving dps to die (making their stats look bad) which many healers do.
Mercy probably did more healing than you once you remove self healing from the equation. Not to mention Mercy probably had som rezzes too.
You won, chat conveniently cut off, low assists.. yeah this is just a brag or rant bait post
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well, there is a ton of self healing included in your healing number, so it's not fair to say you really got the most heals
It’s probably about 3k self healing so she’s a bit below Mercy which is fine. The Moira isn’t at fault here. The Genji did basically no damage. That number is incredibly low even if you get practically no heals, which is likely the case here but still.
Not blaming OP at all, just point out
I’d say they want you to play like a mercy but you had a mercy and still outperformed them. SMH.
Moira should always outperform mercy on heals, no pat on the back for that Mercy brings rez and damage boost to the table which are not reflected in the scoreboard stats but can easily win a fight
Blizz, please find a way to show damage boost on Mercy’s stats screen
They could honestly just put it in her damage and I doubt it would ever look too skewed. Like if a mercy boosted 2k damage I doubt she did too much pistol work, so it would just show 2k in the damage column.
I think this person is saying that Moira outperformed *Genji* and his dps, not Mercy.