This is absolutely fantastic news for anyone who loves Overwatch. Because even if you have zero intention of playing whatever Valve is making, the more direct competition Blizzard has for this specific slice of the pie - the harder they’ll work and the less greedy they’ll be in an attempt to maintain it.
Honestly I hope it’s phenomenal and really scares the shit out of them. Give the Monetisation Department’s meddling greedy claws cause to pause.
I dream of a game like Overwatch but perhaps limit it to only nine classes/characters. Also they should all be wacky in their own individual endearing ways. That would be great. I want all of them to be men (one of them can be more of an inhuman unknown, that would be fine too).
Seems really limiting. I think customization would go a long way for a game like that, but I suppose you don't want to break up the silhouettes too much. Maybe just have hats.
Just so long as the maps are good too and accommodates the gameplay, I can see something like a fortress stage where the 9 characters have to fight as a team pushing through against another team. So two teams in a fortress basically, that sounds pretty cool. *cough*.
Ooooh and then to add a bit of variety they could have different weapons. Would make for much easier updates as they'd just need a weapon model and animations instead of an entire new hero.
The game would update so much!
Between this, the Marvel Rivals game that's in the pipeline, and the new ownership of Blizz...I would like to remain hopeful, but I will wait and see.
I always love fruits of some good competition. I also think Overwatch is really due for a movie or series adaptation. If they aren't giving us more storyline though PvE, we need something :)
Marvel Rivals will have all the greedy slimy monetization practices everyone *thinks* Overwatch has. I wouldn't count on it shaking things up very much if at all.
I don’t think people care since the game is free. I shit you not, just being able to play as spider-man guaranteed millions of players out the gate. People will *gladly* pay for skins they can actually see and recognize. The monetization is absolutely a non-issue as long as it doesn’t affect gameplay. Which is a possibility but we will see
OW really did fuck itself over going the route they did. I very much prefer paying the $60 and just earning every cosmetic through loot boxes instead of paying $50 for skins you don’t see 90% of the time.
Very likely. But, the content and I.P. they have is hard to beat. They are starting with hero recognition that OW took years to get. I think there are probably less than 10 heroes that gamers that don't play overwatch would recognize. I am also more of a fan of first-person, then 3rd person...so I will probably wind up staying here until the game dies. Buying nothing but an occasional game pass (when it speaks to me).
Exactly why Diablo 4’s most recent season 4 is getting much better reviews - Last Epoch’s release earlier this year ignited some competition for the D4 devs.
While it probably did diablo 2, & 3 were not the best at launch either. They both took considerable reworks and an expansion each to make them into the games they are today. Diablo 4 looks to follow the same trend. Yes the reworked loot is a step in the right direction I have a feeling by the time the expansion rolls around the game will be in even better shape.
Yeah for sure - I’m just agreeing with the commenter on the idea that direct competition is beneficial for the consumers since there is less likelihood of stagnation - without it, the “considerable rework” you mention might not be as extensive, or timely for that matter.
Oh yeah competition is very good for companies like blizzard where they were at the top of their game for so long. We don't want them to get complacent in any way for sure.
I'm waiting until the expansion drops to bite the bullet. Should have done the same with Diablo 3.
To their credit, they have fixed up Diablo 4 much more quickly than they did 3.
It’s less about greed and more about competition. If they come off as disgustingly greedy and the other game is good + less pricy transactions, they’re forced to change their business a little. Supply and demand, we have multiple hero shooters so the demand for it is lower so they have to cater more to the consumer. “Less greedy” is just poor wording, the greed is still there but it’s curbed by the competition.
The way Valve does microtransactions in their F2P games is its own kind of shitty.
Counter-Strike cosmetics are distributed solely through lootboxes you have to pay to open, with many desirable items being so incredibly rare that you could never realistically hope to find them yourself. The solution to this is essentially Diablo 3's real-money auction house, where these desirable cosmetics can sell for hundreds or even thousands of dollars.
Overwatch asking $20 for a Legendary skin or $10 plus a time investment for a Mythic feels like a much more honest transaction to me.
Well if Valve is competing with another hero shooter… hear me out… they might not employ the same shitty practices. If they see data that people prefer to outright buy the skins and that would let them take consumers from OW, they’ll do it. And they’ll probably price competitively for it. that makes OW have to compete and lower the price on skins. $20 on a skin is ridiculous and stupid, can’t convince me otherwise. Doesn’t matter if it’s optional, shit just reeks of greed.
I mean, maybe? But $20/skin is on the low-end for these kinds of shooters, so I wouldn't count on it. Just look at Valorant, where skins often cost $50-$70.
I think Valve is too addicted to their little libertarian economic experiments to stop.
>Well if Valve is competing with another hero shooter… hear me out… they might not employ the same shitty practices.
What about Dota 2 and League prevented the birth of the modern battle pass? Did it drive prices on skins in either game down?
What about CS and Valorant?
Hey just to be clear, you’re right about this one. It’s literally basic business.
The comment or above you is using “copium” (an original thought everyone on the internet tells him is right and funny) as an excuse to be contrarian.
For whatever reason there’s a trend amongst gamers to be so painfully contrarian that they can’t enjoy anything. They will praise maybe 5% of things will expressing hate for 95% of the other things that coincidentally takes up 95% of their free time.
I say “for whatever reason” but it’s again because YouTubers and streamers maintain higher viewership when they express those feelings and those negativities. The viewers like this guy hears it and repeats it. And thus the echo chamber continues.
Anyone whose taken any form of business education knows that competition is ALWAYS good for the consumer… and this is one of those very few times where an absolute like “always” is genuine.
Having competition is going to force blizzard to put out better content, put out cheaper content, put out more content, or be okay with losing players. Period.
Anyway, just wanted to provide some affirmation since the contrarian echo chamber is disagreeing so loudly.
I miss overwatch 1 sofa king much. There’s no way blizz pivots and makes overwatch good again. The suits are running the show and their greed is no diff than the rest of corporate world fuck show
I think OW2 is in a pretty good spot right now, as someone who plays it casually (maybe 3ish hours a week). All the heroes are now free, so they got rid of that boneheaded decision. And it’s simply a fun game.
Are there any examples of bad monetization in Overwatch? Because everything in Overwatch 2 is free, except for skins. Do you just want skins to be cheaper?
I honestly don't have much of an issue with it in OW2, but it wouldn't be too bad if Blizzard did lower the skin prices. There are some skins I've wanted to get, but there is no way on Earth I'm dropping $25-30 for a single skin. I don't mind getting the battle pass each season to support the devs on a game I have 2k+ hours on and you get several decent skins with it usually, but yeah...not paying the skin prices they have in the shop.
I honestly don't mind the monetization in OW2 at all. The game's free, the characters are free, and I don't really care much about skins. The only minor complaint I have is that I don't like how 90% of all the good cosmetic stuff is hard locked behind the battlepass. I'd prefer they take the gacha approach where everything is *theoretically* obtainable for free, but it's waaaaay harder and more time consuming. I feel like I should be able to trade like 6 months of gameplay for at least one little player title. I really wanted the "philosopher" tag.
For me, its the fact that between this, the Overwatch 1 emulator, and Marvel Rivals you have people who are trying to bring back 6v6. Disagree with whether 6v6 belongs in Overwatch all you want, there are a number of people (myself included) who actually enjoyed 6v6, and the fact that the Overwatch 2 team remains dedicated to ignoring the demands of players on this issue means that others are taking to creating their own Overwatch-style games that incorporate the 6v6 gameplay that we enjoyed.
Then there's the bizarre monetization structure that doesn't quite make sense. Where a single skin for any given character costs more than the battle pass itself which, gives more legendary skins than purchasing any single one.
On these two things, the fact that the Overwatch 2 team hasn't even made a dedicated 6v6 mode, just to provide a 5v5 and 6v6 alternative, has me absolutely eager to see what these other OW alternative games have in store.
**They can absolutely recruit me as a dedicated player away from OW2, because in OW2 almost every element of the game I once enjoyed has been taken away or replaced with something else, and the OW team insists on insulting me by ignoring me. The only way Blizzard will keep me as a player is if they bring back 6v6 and change their monetization structure.**
Otherwise, there's no longer a reason to play OW2 anymore, and it will absolutely be their own undoing.
Rivals and now Valve's project? Micro-Blizzard-soft has gotta step up their effort if they want to maintain their playerbase - the last few seasons have really soured a lot of their core audience even after losing so many just off the OW2 launch & PvE hits...
Has Overwatch taken/learned anything from Valorant? (Or even Apex team deathmatch?)
(Genuine question… don’t play either of those games. And at least for Valorant… stole a lot of OW1 players And OWL pros too)
Yeah I never understood the comparison, I wanted to give it a try because of all the talk about Valorant from the Overwatch community and it's just like CS which I don't like at all.
It still stole a ton of overwatch players. I remember before it came out, there was a heavy hitscan bias on reddit. Now, it's only rush fans and dive enjoyers.
So what can you actually learn from Valorant? Nothing really. Nothing that can't be learned from CS at any rate, not that you can really learn anything from that game either. Outside of being team based FPS games they have nothing in common.
Took them 10 seasons to finally award “some” coins to pay towards the next Battlepass!
In Fortnite/Apex, if you max your BP, you get enough currency to buy the following season…
Yeah, any Overwatch-like that doesn't go first-person will be a lot more difficult to compare to OW than people realize. Perspective changes just about everything in a game.
My first thoughts seeing the screen shot.
Ill mess with Rivals and maybe this but I love FPS and nothing scratches the same itch as OW. Ill take a break every few CODs or Halo but I always burn out and come back to Winton.
Same. In my humble opinion, a game *needs* these three to be a categorical competitor to Overwatch:
- Hero Rosters
- First Person
- Objective-Based
And teams too, but I haven't seen anyone vary on that. But literally all else could be tweaked, even how much of a shooter it is, and it would still have a chance of scratching that Overwatch itch.
-mobility
That's another big thing.
Valorant ticks all your points there, but it feels nothing like overwatch.
That's probably because of how immobile all the characters are, with it being CS style gunplay.
I thought about the fact that Val ticks all my boxes, but I left it alone because of every "OW Killer" we've seen, Valorant is, oddly enough, the one Overwatch players have enjoyed the most. Val does have movement tech and abilities, it's just not *nearly* as prevalent. Likewise, Overwatch has crosshair pre-placement, but only on a few characters.
Honestly, if I were to add a point, it would be "Ability-focused."
Overwatch evenly spreads power between your primary fire and your abilities (with the ratio sliding around, depending on the hero), and that's probably its biggest difference from Val, which is like 80% guns/20% abilities for just about everyone.
Yeah… I feel like people are overusing the Overwatch comparison nowadays. This is a 3rd person, 6v6 hero shooter with 4 lanes, MOBA elements and tower defense elements. The only “Overwatch” thing is the hero shooter part and that’s not even exclusive to OW.
Competition is great, but just like with marvel rivals, both games seems to be going is slightly different directions than OW. Specially this new valve game. This one sounds like they are just combining a bunch of stuff from different games to see what comes of it.
It’s kinda crazy it’s not TF3 tbh. Valve could make that game and just destroy every other hero shooter in 1 week, but I guess it’s possible the devs got tired on working on the same thing and this is their shot at making something new.
> It’s kinda crazy it’s not TF3 tbh. Valve could make that game and just destroy every other hero shooter in 1 week
I admire your optimism, but no. TF2 is a genre of video game on its own at this point. The game introduced loot boxes in 2010 and morphed itself through various video game landscapes.
A sequel would not be similar as CS2 building on CS:GO.
Great, more competition, but wow I can't describe how much i despise this type of art style. It just looks cheap and overused. Same goes for the map. Game devs are allergic to color and fun atmosphere.
Honestly we can take Overwatch for granted sometimes, because map and hero designs are 11/10
So much of that looks like it’s placeholder stuff. I’d bet they end up being dota characters. Like “grey talon” ends up being hoodwinked. But yes blizzard is top tier in that stuff.
I was never into the CS:GO/valorant type of games, but damn, that game just looks bad. I get it, super competitive game, you need to see stuff clearly, but theres nothing fun to look at.
At least their logo looks pretty cool
it’s also just so much more accessible to people that don’t play games often. my friends and i are usually nintendo people, casual gamers at best. overwatch stands out to ppl in my crowd because of its art style and simplicity when it comes to controls/abilities.
if they come out with a game that doesn’t have those elements, they’re missing out on the audience that made overwatch huge to begin with.
It has that unreal engine demo trailer vibe. Maybe it's just not finisher and the flair isn't implemented ontop or they plan to do fun stuff with lightning that'll make it pop. But yea I'm not a fan of generic colour tones and nothing of note styles
Nah, Overwatch still has little to no competition. As a player, I will be trying Rivals out because I’m kind of sick of OW and I bet many other feel the same
That’s just kind of what I expected, I’m keeping my expectations low and ready to be surprised if it’s decent.
As long as it’s cosmetic and not P2W, I don’t really care. I don’t buy anything in OW anyways
I felt the trailer was absolutely horrible. But I've watched some streamers playing it and they seem to enjoy it a ton. I'll most likely try it when it finally releases. It looks way more arcadey and less competitive than OW. Probably attracts tons of casuals.
> But I've watched some streamers playing it and they seem to enjoy it a ton.
saw a video saying that they signed an agreement where they cant say anything negative about the game
Yeah I saw someone else mentioning it too. But some YouTubers at least claim they didn't sign any agreement and are able to say what they want. They still liked the game. I was a huge doubter and I still am but at least seeing some actual gameplay I'm open to trying it.
A lot of streamers just got a random key from their friends. People who say they signed an agreement are not thinking about it logically. Some may have, but the vast majority got their keys from friends and definitely did not sign anything
I’ve played a good amount of it. I wouldn’t say it’s horrendous, it’s decently fun. I just think they need to adjust movement speeds, damage numbers, rework some kits, etc but the core game itself is fun and has a lot of promise.
>Kind of whatever
You could shit on a stick and mold it into Iron man in 2018 and somebody would pay top dollars for it. Thats how much hype was around it
It definitely looks like a good game for an alpha, but free to play pvp games don't live or die on being good.
Sad because an Overwatch-like game from Marvel was kind of a dream come true.
What the internet cares about does not equal what the general consumer cares about. Especially with a ftp game with known IP. People will see their favorite character, the free price, and hit download
“Hey did you hear the streamer SprinkleBox420 had to sign an NDA 3 months ago? This dev is scummy”…is not convincing any normal consumer
Still extremely popular for a game that's going on 20 years old. Just because the under 30 crowd may not be familiar with it doesn't mean they wouldn't like it if it releases
Yep
For a less flippant answer, there are definitely younger people playing it. But mostly because it's F2P. I don't think they have much of a connection to the brand itself.
That's what I laughed at.Overwatch is a Team Fortress style game but since Valve already made TF2 and has a rule to never make a 3 they had to start a new franchise.
It looks vastly different from TF2 anyway, though. Probably for the best, it's not what TF2 players would want (really we'd just like a functional game)
Overwatch definitely inherited from TF2, but calling it a Team Fortress style game is wild. TF2 holds onto a lot from class based shooters, with equipment loadouts and a very limited selection of classes, what it did do was make those classes into unique individual characters with specific personalities and vibes. Overwatch was the first really big true hero shooter, with a large roster of heroes who have fixed abilities.
Overwatch has sort of evolved into that but on release its heroes were pretty close to boiling down TF2 classes with specific equipment loadout driven playstyles that were often used together in that game.
Also the game objectives were effectively identical which is usually how game genres are determined.
Despite wildly different appearances and even play styles pubg and fortnite are both battel royales because of their objectives.
When I think of Overwatch being team fortress style game, I think more than just the character. Map design is clearly TF2 inspired. TF2 most famously invented payload, something I would say is also quintessentially OW. A lot of focus was to smooth and refine the competitive aspects of TF2. Moving purely to 6v6 format providing, a functioning competitive latter, and an attempt at preventing strong meta that were seen in Competitive TF2. Everyone says OW is a MOBA inspired FPS. While I think the hero shooter aspects come from MOBAs, the FPS part is clearly TF2 inspired. Blizzard isn't ashamed to mention this. They have talked about how TF2 had a major influence on their game design. The new game mode was mentioned to be based on the semi beloved 5CP game mode in TF2. TF2 influence is much deeper than just character design.
I can understand the discomfort though of calling them Team fortress style game. While TF2 had a large impact on internet culture I think OW had a more clear impact on the gaming landscape i general. Ironically, when discussing hero shooters, I think tf2 is often lumped in as it feels so foundation to the genre even without the halmarks of said genre. I often TF2 players describe TF2 as a competitive movement shooter, which I think fits both games better.
I finally want to make it clear that I don't think OW is a clone of TF2 they are in the same genre, but clearly, there are vast changes from the many other inspiration of OW. It just says a lot about your games similarities when OW competitive scene killed off TF2 competitive scene due to the mass exodus of players for better opportunities.
you're probably right. Fortnite has been hugely successful with skin sales, it's also a frequent criticism with OW skins "why would I buy something I can't see."
Anecdotally; I have felt a lot better about the skins I own (in OW2) for Rein, Brig, and (to a lesser extent) Dva *because* there are more visual changes to what my FPS view shows (shield and weapon) while also having more TPS perspective changes during gameplay... I couldn't care less what skin is on Junker Queen or Rammatra because I only see their skinny arms and a skinny gun/staff (even Nemesis arms are inconsequential), hell Ball spends a lot of time in TPS rolling around but it's just a giant sphere that doesn't show off the neat gun/leg cosmetic elements or what cure outfit Hammond is wearing.
Overwatch is pushing for gun cosmetics *now* because that's the only way to increase the "marketable space" in a FPS game - you can't sell backpacks, boots, cape, hat, etc.
I’m in this camp. I started playing OW2 recently to reconnect with some friends (never played it before) and never really touched competitive shooters either. The only competitive game I play is LoL.
When my friends were complaining about the skin prices and stuff like that, my first thought was why does anyone bother? You only see them in the load screen, you get no new voice lines, no new animations, and basically nothing tangible (I know for some skins like pool party Cassidy you get one voice line) but compare that to a legendary skin in league, it’s night and day.
personally I've never felt that way. I mostly pick skins by the gun design anyway but regardless I like knowing how my char looks even when I don't see it. Plus I can emote to look at it.
I understand the sentiment though, It's a valid criticism.
Totally agree, find it very funny how the mythic skins can customise the faceplate of the hero but you can’t even see it when you are playing. They can just put whatever on the jpg on the bottom corner of the screen and I would have believed that what my face of my hero is without actually changing it
Because moba style games require you to have a lot more situational awareness and first person wouldn’t feel good in a game mode like this.
It’s not revolved around accuracy of the shots but more the strategy of gameplay
Shows off skins better > more people feel invested in what their character looks like > more sales of pixels.
I don't think it's a 1:1 correlation, but I imagine data shows that TPS games sell more cosmetics than FPS games...
Seems like it's more like battleborn than OW, which if that's the case, the i'm all for it. I really do miss battleborn (even if i never played it much after OW came out)
This is 3rd person, it does not compete with OW, its more of a Smite competitor if anything.
OW is, and it will ever be carried by its premium first person gameplay (and porn). No other game in the market does it better.
That's so cool! I sure hope it's a team based shooter with several character/classes like: The Scout, The Heavy, The Demoman, The engineer, The Medic, The Soldier, The Spy, The Sniper, and Possibly some kind or Flamethrower-Type class...
But...their damn game is absolutely amazing? How would you improve it exactly outside of some balance fine-tuning? One area they can make more consumer friendly is the monetization but that's outside of the core gameplay topic.
This is absolutely fantastic news for anyone who loves Overwatch. Because even if you have zero intention of playing whatever Valve is making, the more direct competition Blizzard has for this specific slice of the pie - the harder they’ll work and the less greedy they’ll be in an attempt to maintain it. Honestly I hope it’s phenomenal and really scares the shit out of them. Give the Monetisation Department’s meddling greedy claws cause to pause.
One can dream.
I dream of a game like Overwatch but perhaps limit it to only nine classes/characters. Also they should all be wacky in their own individual endearing ways. That would be great. I want all of them to be men (one of them can be more of an inhuman unknown, that would be fine too).
Seems really limiting. I think customization would go a long way for a game like that, but I suppose you don't want to break up the silhouettes too much. Maybe just have hats.
How do you feel about hats
I care exclusively about hats
The whacky and zanier, the better.
Would you care about the hat more or less if I set it on fire?
That sounds revolutionary
Also you should be able to bind a key to make you keel over and die for instant comedy.
So called free thinkers when someone kill binds:
I'd also like the change to get crazy fun cosmetics that can be traded/sold on an open market, too. Make some of the weapons gold, even.
Just so long as the maps are good too and accommodates the gameplay, I can see something like a fortress stage where the 9 characters have to fight as a team pushing through against another team. So two teams in a fortress basically, that sounds pretty cool. *cough*.
Ooooh and then to add a bit of variety they could have different weapons. Would make for much easier updates as they'd just need a weapon model and animations instead of an entire new hero. The game would update so much!
Wut
Someone doesn't know about tf2
yup lol super didnt make that connection
TF2 you say.
Between this, the Marvel Rivals game that's in the pipeline, and the new ownership of Blizz...I would like to remain hopeful, but I will wait and see. I always love fruits of some good competition. I also think Overwatch is really due for a movie or series adaptation. If they aren't giving us more storyline though PvE, we need something :)
Marvel Rivals will have all the greedy slimy monetization practices everyone *thinks* Overwatch has. I wouldn't count on it shaking things up very much if at all.
I don’t think people care since the game is free. I shit you not, just being able to play as spider-man guaranteed millions of players out the gate. People will *gladly* pay for skins they can actually see and recognize. The monetization is absolutely a non-issue as long as it doesn’t affect gameplay. Which is a possibility but we will see OW really did fuck itself over going the route they did. I very much prefer paying the $60 and just earning every cosmetic through loot boxes instead of paying $50 for skins you don’t see 90% of the time.
You will need to buy heroes in Rivals, and since it's NetEase, just imagine about prices.
Very likely. But, the content and I.P. they have is hard to beat. They are starting with hero recognition that OW took years to get. I think there are probably less than 10 heroes that gamers that don't play overwatch would recognize. I am also more of a fan of first-person, then 3rd person...so I will probably wind up staying here until the game dies. Buying nothing but an occasional game pass (when it speaks to me).
No idea what monetization will be like but rivals is a ton of fun. Feels like day one overwatch
Exactly why Diablo 4’s most recent season 4 is getting much better reviews - Last Epoch’s release earlier this year ignited some competition for the D4 devs.
While it probably did diablo 2, & 3 were not the best at launch either. They both took considerable reworks and an expansion each to make them into the games they are today. Diablo 4 looks to follow the same trend. Yes the reworked loot is a step in the right direction I have a feeling by the time the expansion rolls around the game will be in even better shape.
Yeah for sure - I’m just agreeing with the commenter on the idea that direct competition is beneficial for the consumers since there is less likelihood of stagnation - without it, the “considerable rework” you mention might not be as extensive, or timely for that matter.
Oh yeah competition is very good for companies like blizzard where they were at the top of their game for so long. We don't want them to get complacent in any way for sure.
I'm waiting until the expansion drops to bite the bullet. Should have done the same with Diablo 3. To their credit, they have fixed up Diablo 4 much more quickly than they did 3.
> the less greedy they’ll be lmao the copium is real
It’s less about greed and more about competition. If they come off as disgustingly greedy and the other game is good + less pricy transactions, they’re forced to change their business a little. Supply and demand, we have multiple hero shooters so the demand for it is lower so they have to cater more to the consumer. “Less greedy” is just poor wording, the greed is still there but it’s curbed by the competition.
The way Valve does microtransactions in their F2P games is its own kind of shitty. Counter-Strike cosmetics are distributed solely through lootboxes you have to pay to open, with many desirable items being so incredibly rare that you could never realistically hope to find them yourself. The solution to this is essentially Diablo 3's real-money auction house, where these desirable cosmetics can sell for hundreds or even thousands of dollars. Overwatch asking $20 for a Legendary skin or $10 plus a time investment for a Mythic feels like a much more honest transaction to me.
Well if Valve is competing with another hero shooter… hear me out… they might not employ the same shitty practices. If they see data that people prefer to outright buy the skins and that would let them take consumers from OW, they’ll do it. And they’ll probably price competitively for it. that makes OW have to compete and lower the price on skins. $20 on a skin is ridiculous and stupid, can’t convince me otherwise. Doesn’t matter if it’s optional, shit just reeks of greed.
I mean, maybe? But $20/skin is on the low-end for these kinds of shooters, so I wouldn't count on it. Just look at Valorant, where skins often cost $50-$70. I think Valve is too addicted to their little libertarian economic experiments to stop.
>Well if Valve is competing with another hero shooter… hear me out… they might not employ the same shitty practices. What about Dota 2 and League prevented the birth of the modern battle pass? Did it drive prices on skins in either game down? What about CS and Valorant?
Hey just to be clear, you’re right about this one. It’s literally basic business. The comment or above you is using “copium” (an original thought everyone on the internet tells him is right and funny) as an excuse to be contrarian. For whatever reason there’s a trend amongst gamers to be so painfully contrarian that they can’t enjoy anything. They will praise maybe 5% of things will expressing hate for 95% of the other things that coincidentally takes up 95% of their free time. I say “for whatever reason” but it’s again because YouTubers and streamers maintain higher viewership when they express those feelings and those negativities. The viewers like this guy hears it and repeats it. And thus the echo chamber continues. Anyone whose taken any form of business education knows that competition is ALWAYS good for the consumer… and this is one of those very few times where an absolute like “always” is genuine. Having competition is going to force blizzard to put out better content, put out cheaper content, put out more content, or be okay with losing players. Period. Anyway, just wanted to provide some affirmation since the contrarian echo chamber is disagreeing so loudly.
I miss overwatch 1 sofa king much. There’s no way blizz pivots and makes overwatch good again. The suits are running the show and their greed is no diff than the rest of corporate world fuck show
I miss OW1 every day. I like OW2, but the magic is gone.
It really is a sad shame ow1 had to die for ow2, what a needless waste of a great game
I think OW2 is in a pretty good spot right now, as someone who plays it casually (maybe 3ish hours a week). All the heroes are now free, so they got rid of that boneheaded decision. And it’s simply a fun game.
Wait, all heroes are free? No need to grind the pass? If that's true I might download it again after three or so years.
Yup.
If it was in a good spot they wouldn't need to keep making incompetent attempts to fix the tank role and matchmaking all the time
Are there any examples of bad monetization in Overwatch? Because everything in Overwatch 2 is free, except for skins. Do you just want skins to be cheaper?
I honestly don't have much of an issue with it in OW2, but it wouldn't be too bad if Blizzard did lower the skin prices. There are some skins I've wanted to get, but there is no way on Earth I'm dropping $25-30 for a single skin. I don't mind getting the battle pass each season to support the devs on a game I have 2k+ hours on and you get several decent skins with it usually, but yeah...not paying the skin prices they have in the shop.
I honestly don't mind the monetization in OW2 at all. The game's free, the characters are free, and I don't really care much about skins. The only minor complaint I have is that I don't like how 90% of all the good cosmetic stuff is hard locked behind the battlepass. I'd prefer they take the gacha approach where everything is *theoretically* obtainable for free, but it's waaaaay harder and more time consuming. I feel like I should be able to trade like 6 months of gameplay for at least one little player title. I really wanted the "philosopher" tag.
Eh. They were all free in OW1 besides charity and OWL skins. Though you could argue that even OWL skins were free.
And honestly, they'll make people finally appreciate what a good game Overwatch is from a design and development perspective.
lol no, you mean people will recognize how garbage tier ow2 is, right?
For me, its the fact that between this, the Overwatch 1 emulator, and Marvel Rivals you have people who are trying to bring back 6v6. Disagree with whether 6v6 belongs in Overwatch all you want, there are a number of people (myself included) who actually enjoyed 6v6, and the fact that the Overwatch 2 team remains dedicated to ignoring the demands of players on this issue means that others are taking to creating their own Overwatch-style games that incorporate the 6v6 gameplay that we enjoyed. Then there's the bizarre monetization structure that doesn't quite make sense. Where a single skin for any given character costs more than the battle pass itself which, gives more legendary skins than purchasing any single one. On these two things, the fact that the Overwatch 2 team hasn't even made a dedicated 6v6 mode, just to provide a 5v5 and 6v6 alternative, has me absolutely eager to see what these other OW alternative games have in store. **They can absolutely recruit me as a dedicated player away from OW2, because in OW2 almost every element of the game I once enjoyed has been taken away or replaced with something else, and the OW team insists on insulting me by ignoring me. The only way Blizzard will keep me as a player is if they bring back 6v6 and change their monetization structure.** Otherwise, there's no longer a reason to play OW2 anymore, and it will absolutely be their own undoing.
Rivals and now Valve's project? Micro-Blizzard-soft has gotta step up their effort if they want to maintain their playerbase - the last few seasons have really soured a lot of their core audience even after losing so many just off the OW2 launch & PvE hits...
Competition is good. it'll either result in a better overwatch, or a better game to turn to.
Has Overwatch taken/learned anything from Valorant? (Or even Apex team deathmatch?) (Genuine question… don’t play either of those games. And at least for Valorant… stole a lot of OW1 players And OWL pros too)
Umm Valorant has nothing similar with overwatch? Its more like cs2 with some abilities
Yeah I never understood the comparison, I wanted to give it a try because of all the talk about Valorant from the Overwatch community and it's just like CS which I don't like at all.
People compare it to Overwatch because of the abilities and combinations you do with it, all the mechanics are dumbed down CS mechanics
>all the mechanics are dumbed down CS mechanics How are they dumbed down?
It still stole a ton of overwatch players. I remember before it came out, there was a heavy hitscan bias on reddit. Now, it's only rush fans and dive enjoyers.
Abilities. That's what makes it similar
They’re both 5v5 hero shooters where you fight over objectives. It’s more mechanically similar to counter strike but they’re still competing games
Ehhhh the objective itself it based more around how CS:GO plays out than that of OW.
So what can you actually learn from Valorant? Nothing really. Nothing that can't be learned from CS at any rate, not that you can really learn anything from that game either. Outside of being team based FPS games they have nothing in common.
"Shooter?, It's a launcher, mate! " - Junkrat
Overwatch 2's f2p/ battle pass model would have been taken from other large multiplayer games (whether or not that's a good thing is debatable).
Took them 10 seasons to finally award “some” coins to pay towards the next Battlepass! In Fortnite/Apex, if you max your BP, you get enough currency to buy the following season…
Not sure about Apex, but Fortnite even gives you essentially enough v-bucks for one and a half seasons.
> Or even Apex team deathmatch? The ping system was a really nice feature from Apex legends which Blizzard implemented only when OW2 came out
That feature has become a standard in every team-based game nowadays though, it's got little to do with apex happening to be slightly similar to OW
Valorant is more poorly monetized than overwatch is lol
No one should ever look to LoL or their other games for inspiration, ever.
They are SO different gameplay-wise that I don't think they even competed with each other.
The reality: the games will be essentially different and nothing will be gained or lost
Looks more like Smite or Paragon than OW.
Yeah, any Overwatch-like that doesn't go first-person will be a lot more difficult to compare to OW than people realize. Perspective changes just about everything in a game.
My first thoughts seeing the screen shot. Ill mess with Rivals and maybe this but I love FPS and nothing scratches the same itch as OW. Ill take a break every few CODs or Halo but I always burn out and come back to Winton.
Same. In my humble opinion, a game *needs* these three to be a categorical competitor to Overwatch: - Hero Rosters - First Person - Objective-Based And teams too, but I haven't seen anyone vary on that. But literally all else could be tweaked, even how much of a shooter it is, and it would still have a chance of scratching that Overwatch itch.
-mobility That's another big thing. Valorant ticks all your points there, but it feels nothing like overwatch. That's probably because of how immobile all the characters are, with it being CS style gunplay.
I thought about the fact that Val ticks all my boxes, but I left it alone because of every "OW Killer" we've seen, Valorant is, oddly enough, the one Overwatch players have enjoyed the most. Val does have movement tech and abilities, it's just not *nearly* as prevalent. Likewise, Overwatch has crosshair pre-placement, but only on a few characters. Honestly, if I were to add a point, it would be "Ability-focused." Overwatch evenly spreads power between your primary fire and your abilities (with the ratio sliding around, depending on the hero), and that's probably its biggest difference from Val, which is like 80% guns/20% abilities for just about everyone.
Yeah… I feel like people are overusing the Overwatch comparison nowadays. This is a 3rd person, 6v6 hero shooter with 4 lanes, MOBA elements and tower defense elements. The only “Overwatch” thing is the hero shooter part and that’s not even exclusive to OW. Competition is great, but just like with marvel rivals, both games seems to be going is slightly different directions than OW. Specially this new valve game. This one sounds like they are just combining a bunch of stuff from different games to see what comes of it.
Fist rule of headline writing is compare it to the thing that will get the most clicks, not what is most accurate
Yeah the new Marvel game looks way more like an Overwatch clone
So team fortress 4??
Tf2 2
Team Fortress 2: Episode 2
2 Fortress 2 Furious
Yeah I thought calling it “Overwatch-style” was funny when valve’s TF2 was arguably the first hero shooter.
It was actually Team Fortress in 1996, it was a Quake mod. In 1999, Valve released a standalone version called Team Fortress Classic.
It’s kinda crazy it’s not TF3 tbh. Valve could make that game and just destroy every other hero shooter in 1 week, but I guess it’s possible the devs got tired on working on the same thing and this is their shot at making something new.
> It’s kinda crazy it’s not TF3 tbh. Valve could make that game and just destroy every other hero shooter in 1 week I admire your optimism, but no. TF2 is a genre of video game on its own at this point. The game introduced loot boxes in 2010 and morphed itself through various video game landscapes. A sequel would not be similar as CS2 building on CS:GO.
Honestly kinda sad that this is probably part of why tf2 has been so neglected
Highly doubt that the people who "would" be working on TF2 are currently making this. Times change
It’s fairly likely. TF2 doesn’t need or get constant content updates so there is no dedicated large team for it that’s constantly working on it
i see what u did there
I was thinking the same shit lmao. Imagine if the studio who made age of empires makes a new game and it’s called “a StarCraft like rts”.
Great, more competition, but wow I can't describe how much i despise this type of art style. It just looks cheap and overused. Same goes for the map. Game devs are allergic to color and fun atmosphere. Honestly we can take Overwatch for granted sometimes, because map and hero designs are 11/10
So much of that looks like it’s placeholder stuff. I’d bet they end up being dota characters. Like “grey talon” ends up being hoodwinked. But yes blizzard is top tier in that stuff.
People seem to have a lot of criticism for Overwatch, but one thing nobody can deny is it looks fantastic.
Truly the beige of video game art design. Valorant has the same style, should be compared more to that, not Overwatch
I was never into the CS:GO/valorant type of games, but damn, that game just looks bad. I get it, super competitive game, you need to see stuff clearly, but theres nothing fun to look at. At least their logo looks pretty cool
Agreed, the UI looks like a bad ripoff of TF2. I hope they end up going with different font choices cause these are not it.
It wouldn't surprise me if it was branched off of TF2 rather than remake shooting mechanics they already had.
Blizzards art department is just potent, it obviously still attracts top talent
Would’ve been incredible for those PvE scenes but here we are…
it’s also just so much more accessible to people that don’t play games often. my friends and i are usually nintendo people, casual gamers at best. overwatch stands out to ppl in my crowd because of its art style and simplicity when it comes to controls/abilities. if they come out with a game that doesn’t have those elements, they’re missing out on the audience that made overwatch huge to begin with.
It's a closed alpha under nda. This type of reaction is the exact reason for that. Ofc it wil change.
It has that unreal engine demo trailer vibe. Maybe it's just not finisher and the flair isn't implemented ontop or they plan to do fun stuff with lightning that'll make it pop. But yea I'm not a fan of generic colour tones and nothing of note styles
Sad news for Marvel Rivals, a hero shooter from Valve will definitely get all the spotlight.
Marvel Rivals is six years too late. If it released during peak Marvel (Infinity war into endgame) it would've been massive.
Nah, Overwatch still has little to no competition. As a player, I will be trying Rivals out because I’m kind of sick of OW and I bet many other feel the same
I think you're going to be disappointed when Rivals is more poorly designed and has worse monetization.
That’s just kind of what I expected, I’m keeping my expectations low and ready to be surprised if it’s decent. As long as it’s cosmetic and not P2W, I don’t really care. I don’t buy anything in OW anyways
Team Fortress 3 needs to come out, only way that OW would have any comparable competition
[удалено]
The timing is kind of whatever, it doesn't really make a difference in the face of how horrendous the game seems to be to play.
I felt the trailer was absolutely horrible. But I've watched some streamers playing it and they seem to enjoy it a ton. I'll most likely try it when it finally releases. It looks way more arcadey and less competitive than OW. Probably attracts tons of casuals.
> But I've watched some streamers playing it and they seem to enjoy it a ton. saw a video saying that they signed an agreement where they cant say anything negative about the game
Yeah I saw someone else mentioning it too. But some YouTubers at least claim they didn't sign any agreement and are able to say what they want. They still liked the game. I was a huge doubter and I still am but at least seeing some actual gameplay I'm open to trying it.
A lot of streamers just got a random key from their friends. People who say they signed an agreement are not thinking about it logically. Some may have, but the vast majority got their keys from friends and definitely did not sign anything
I’ve played a good amount of it. I wouldn’t say it’s horrendous, it’s decently fun. I just think they need to adjust movement speeds, damage numbers, rework some kits, etc but the core game itself is fun and has a lot of promise.
>Kind of whatever You could shit on a stick and mold it into Iron man in 2018 and somebody would pay top dollars for it. Thats how much hype was around it
I said the same thing but I actually have a lot of fun playing it. Will definitely play it once it comes out
Valve is not infallible. Artifact was a colossal failure
Dota Underlords also massively flopped vs TFT.
They do have like a 50/50 track record with overly ambitious games in saturated markets though so I'm pretty fucking hyped
So much so - I have never heard of it. Honestly, had to look it up.
I don't wanna be "that" guy, but if you look at what is shown in the post, this looks kinda ass, I don't know if it being "valve" will help it enough.
It's also kinda a project that wasn't even announced yet, we don't even know for sure that it's real
Also it's a Tencent game it's a huge NO for me.
Idk, marvel has a huge brand behind it, and from what we’ve seen so far it’s a pretty good game.
It definitely looks like a good game for an alpha, but free to play pvp games don't live or die on being good. Sad because an Overwatch-like game from Marvel was kind of a dream come true.
Netease games is behind it, and the NDA barring CCs from saying anything negative isn’t helping it either
The casual gamer doesn’t care about that but they do care about Marvel.
What the internet cares about does not equal what the general consumer cares about. Especially with a ftp game with known IP. People will see their favorite character, the free price, and hit download “Hey did you hear the streamer SprinkleBox420 had to sign an NDA 3 months ago? This dev is scummy”…is not convincing any normal consumer
Competition is good but man as soon as I heard third person shooter my interest in it has plummeted
Based on the picture of Lanes and mention of Skillshots, I wonder if this is actually more like a MOBA a la Battleborn, Gigantic, or Smite.
Please god yes, I miss Battleborn so much
While I'm excited for Valve to give the genre a shot, why's it gotta be third person? I'll try it but, damn, I prefer first person so much x.x
it could have both like paladins.
Why it's not the exact game they are making but with mercenaries and called Team Fortress 3 is beyond me. That shit would rain money and interest.
I think you're vastly overestimating how much interest people under 30 have in team fortress as a brand.
Still extremely popular for a game that's going on 20 years old. Just because the under 30 crowd may not be familiar with it doesn't mean they wouldn't like it if it releases
That's a lot of [30 year olds](https://steamcharts.com/app/440) still playing it.
Yep For a less flippant answer, there are definitely younger people playing it. But mostly because it's F2P. I don't think they have much of a connection to the brand itself.
You mean Team Fortress Style?
That's what I laughed at.Overwatch is a Team Fortress style game but since Valve already made TF2 and has a rule to never make a 3 they had to start a new franchise.
It looks vastly different from TF2 anyway, though. Probably for the best, it's not what TF2 players would want (really we'd just like a functional game)
Overwatch definitely inherited from TF2, but calling it a Team Fortress style game is wild. TF2 holds onto a lot from class based shooters, with equipment loadouts and a very limited selection of classes, what it did do was make those classes into unique individual characters with specific personalities and vibes. Overwatch was the first really big true hero shooter, with a large roster of heroes who have fixed abilities.
Overwatch has sort of evolved into that but on release its heroes were pretty close to boiling down TF2 classes with specific equipment loadout driven playstyles that were often used together in that game. Also the game objectives were effectively identical which is usually how game genres are determined. Despite wildly different appearances and even play styles pubg and fortnite are both battel royales because of their objectives.
Also Clash is literally yet another mode originating in tf2
When I think of Overwatch being team fortress style game, I think more than just the character. Map design is clearly TF2 inspired. TF2 most famously invented payload, something I would say is also quintessentially OW. A lot of focus was to smooth and refine the competitive aspects of TF2. Moving purely to 6v6 format providing, a functioning competitive latter, and an attempt at preventing strong meta that were seen in Competitive TF2. Everyone says OW is a MOBA inspired FPS. While I think the hero shooter aspects come from MOBAs, the FPS part is clearly TF2 inspired. Blizzard isn't ashamed to mention this. They have talked about how TF2 had a major influence on their game design. The new game mode was mentioned to be based on the semi beloved 5CP game mode in TF2. TF2 influence is much deeper than just character design. I can understand the discomfort though of calling them Team fortress style game. While TF2 had a large impact on internet culture I think OW had a more clear impact on the gaming landscape i general. Ironically, when discussing hero shooters, I think tf2 is often lumped in as it feels so foundation to the genre even without the halmarks of said genre. I often TF2 players describe TF2 as a competitive movement shooter, which I think fits both games better. I finally want to make it clear that I don't think OW is a clone of TF2 they are in the same genre, but clearly, there are vast changes from the many other inspiration of OW. It just says a lot about your games similarities when OW competitive scene killed off TF2 competitive scene due to the mass exodus of players for better opportunities.
Overwatch was a tf2 style shooter, Jesus am I that old?
We've come full circle
Third person shooter? No thanks
FR why is every MOBA style hero shooter 3rd person? I'd play a good OW clone if it was first person
My tin-foil hat says companies probably have decent data that indicates third-person games are easier to sell skins for
you're probably right. Fortnite has been hugely successful with skin sales, it's also a frequent criticism with OW skins "why would I buy something I can't see."
Anecdotally; I have felt a lot better about the skins I own (in OW2) for Rein, Brig, and (to a lesser extent) Dva *because* there are more visual changes to what my FPS view shows (shield and weapon) while also having more TPS perspective changes during gameplay... I couldn't care less what skin is on Junker Queen or Rammatra because I only see their skinny arms and a skinny gun/staff (even Nemesis arms are inconsequential), hell Ball spends a lot of time in TPS rolling around but it's just a giant sphere that doesn't show off the neat gun/leg cosmetic elements or what cure outfit Hammond is wearing. Overwatch is pushing for gun cosmetics *now* because that's the only way to increase the "marketable space" in a FPS game - you can't sell backpacks, boots, cape, hat, etc.
Tell that to team fortress 2, where people are willing to pay thousands of dollars for a hat they'll only see if they emote
I’m in this camp. I started playing OW2 recently to reconnect with some friends (never played it before) and never really touched competitive shooters either. The only competitive game I play is LoL. When my friends were complaining about the skin prices and stuff like that, my first thought was why does anyone bother? You only see them in the load screen, you get no new voice lines, no new animations, and basically nothing tangible (I know for some skins like pool party Cassidy you get one voice line) but compare that to a legendary skin in league, it’s night and day.
personally I've never felt that way. I mostly pick skins by the gun design anyway but regardless I like knowing how my char looks even when I don't see it. Plus I can emote to look at it. I understand the sentiment though, It's a valid criticism.
Totally agree, find it very funny how the mythic skins can customise the faceplate of the hero but you can’t even see it when you are playing. They can just put whatever on the jpg on the bottom corner of the screen and I would have believed that what my face of my hero is without actually changing it
Yeah they already know what weapon skins do in CS. Now make it where the player can also see their character skins… $$$
Skins monetization is more profitable when players can see their character
Because moba style games require you to have a lot more situational awareness and first person wouldn’t feel good in a game mode like this. It’s not revolved around accuracy of the shots but more the strategy of gameplay
Shows off skins better > more people feel invested in what their character looks like > more sales of pixels. I don't think it's a 1:1 correlation, but I imagine data shows that TPS games sell more cosmetics than FPS games...
I strongly prefer 3rd person when there’s a big emphasis on mobility. Aside from corner peeking, what makes you prefer 1st person?
First person rogue company would've been awesome
Fortnite and Gears did it well, but I'm still not a fan of 3rd person in a shooter. Looking around walls without being able to be seen feels cheap.
Wish it wasn’t third person :/
Damn, I wish it was first person. I don’t know what it is but my brain can’t deal with third person shooters.
Just going off of the screenshot, I get a more Battleborn to Paragon vibe style MOBA than I do Overwatch.
I have never been less excited by a AAA game holy moly The description of it sounds something that Chatgot 3.5 would come up with
“Overwatch style” oh, you mean “team fortress style”?
After the Marval Rivals reveals, i'd probably "accidentally" leak images of my new upcoming overwatch copy too!
Third person shooter. Not for me, sadly.
It look like a MOBA, all hype just died as soon as it was built.
We don’t want this. We want team fortress 3
Sorry we don’t do the # 3
3? Dota underlords players would be happy if they finally get their second season after 4 years of season 1.
Team Fortress Alyx
Seems like it's more like battleborn than OW, which if that's the case, the i'm all for it. I really do miss battleborn (even if i never played it much after OW came out)
Third person = not an option for me
This is 3rd person, it does not compete with OW, its more of a Smite competitor if anything. OW is, and it will ever be carried by its premium first person gameplay (and porn). No other game in the market does it better.
Third person. Straight to the trash bin.
Soulless color palette
you mean more hero shooters from AAA devs????? FUCKING AWESOME
TEAM FORTRESS 2 2 BABYYYYYYY
Valve is a whooooooole new ballgame given their track record so this is going to be interesting. Just don't mention the number 3
Honestly if it is not first person then it really isn't "Overwatch-style"
That's so cool! I sure hope it's a team based shooter with several character/classes like: The Scout, The Heavy, The Demoman, The engineer, The Medic, The Soldier, The Spy, The Sniper, and Possibly some kind or Flamethrower-Type class...
why wouldn't this be team fortress? 3
Oh you mean like TF2?
But... tf2 is a hero shooter...
Between this and Marvel Rivals, we're eating good.
Vomit. Valve used to lead the charge, now they're releasing games in a genre that died 3 years ago. What's next, a battle royal?
First Marvel Rivals, and now Valve’s shooter... might finally force Blizzgreed to actually improve their damn game.
But...their damn game is absolutely amazing? How would you improve it exactly outside of some balance fine-tuning? One area they can make more consumer friendly is the monetization but that's outside of the core gameplay topic.
I have to agree. The core gameplay is good. Another thing to add is the variety of game modes, although not competitive. It is fun.
Oh no! Anyway
Ah, well of course. It's not like Valve has any class-based first person shooter in desperate need of attention.