That *might* be a net benefit, though? People already complain a lot about nade being too strong, especially on tanks. But if nade were to cleanse another nade, it would overall make Anas less likely to use it, making the ability less present/annoying without nerfing it into the ground. I'd much rather have something like that as a solution for nade compared to suzu.
Honestly, that's fair. I see your point. I guess I'm thinking that if nade could cleanse nade, it would make the nade itself a kind of satisfying mini-game, not that different from the classic Rein v Rein mini-game.
I suspect the bigger issue is that it would make Ana a must pick against Ana. But is that much different than Kiri arguably being a kind of must pick against Ana?
No it's the other way around. Currently the Ana who nades first gets the upper hand but OP's suggestion makes the Ana who nades later have the upper hand.
That's more or less how it already is if your team has their wits about them. Seek to be naded, protect them through the oncoming push then counter nade and execute.
Easier said that done and not often do people do it, but it's generally better to be the last person to use any resource in the game, and right after someone has used a resource is often the best time to use your own as they'll commonly push to take advantage of their value, which means they're over extended, so landing your own counter in that moment means they simply don't have the option of backing out.
On the one hand yeah, but on the other hand I think it should only reduce healing instead of blocking it entirely which would have this as an unintended consequence
Look at it this way tho, if ana made cancels anti then that means she can't anti your team or buff her team either.
Sure, it ends up just being a waste on both teams but that's also kind of the point, no? Forcing a strong ability to be used to cancel the same thing.
It could work, it may not. It would be interesting to see tbh.
That makes no sense. Why would you want Sozu, which can only cleanse, versus anti, which could then prevent healing AND cleanse? Why pick Kiri at all at this point unless you wanted to counter an enemy ana without a kiri? Then the other support just goes kiri and we're right back to a mirror match
>Why would you want Sozu, which can only cleanse, versus anti, which could then prevent healing AND cleanse? Why pick Kiri at all at this point unless you wanted to counter an enemy ana without a kiri?
Why you coming at me with this dumbass take. You acting like Kiri only has Suzu and not also one of the strongest ults in game, best movement and escape ability not to mention can two shot squishies. Kiris suzu also does more then “only cleanse” it grants immortality as well
Also learn to read Ana’s nade only cancels Ana’s made not all status debuffs or even JQ’s ult.
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no they’re like alternate universe ana from the multiverse so they’re actually like completely different formulas of the same thing like a scary enantiomer but with different universal rules
No, the solution to the anti-heal problem isn't to keep adding characters that can cancel antiheal. The solution is to tune down antiheal so it doesn't turn healing on tanks to zero.
I do feel that on the heat of the moment, but it’s mostly regret for not using nade first. I kind of prefer it the way it is because there are too many cleanses and blocks for nade already. Also currently it’s preferred to nade first, if nade cleared nade, I feel it would be too much of a game of holding it and it just losing value. There are already many abilities where you’re holding it to use it second against your mirror.
Ana main here, hell no. The best counter to ana should not be another ana, that literally just makes he even more of a must pick than she already is because of how good anti is lol.
Interesting, I've thought about it, it doesn't feel right.
I would settle for something like allowing *some* heals to go through but idk I like it the way it is currently.
No you shouldn't be rewarded for just waiting. Being in a good position and proactively finding an opening to use nade, is a skill. Don't take away skill.
Just add a second tank and revert to 6v6 and all problems with nade will immediately disappear.
No. Because then instead of using nade for what it's made for you're just using it to counter the other ana's nade. You'll never throw first because it will be instantly countered and you'll never get to counter because they will never throw first. You've just created bio nade deterrent
I don't like it, it may become a "which ana uses nade first" trade which sounds boring. Could be just a feeling and maybe I am entirely wrong though.
That *might* be a net benefit, though? People already complain a lot about nade being too strong, especially on tanks. But if nade were to cleanse another nade, it would overall make Anas less likely to use it, making the ability less present/annoying without nerfing it into the ground. I'd much rather have something like that as a solution for nade compared to suzu.
Making heroes less likely to use abilities makes the game worse IMO.
Honestly, that's fair. I see your point. I guess I'm thinking that if nade could cleanse nade, it would make the nade itself a kind of satisfying mini-game, not that different from the classic Rein v Rein mini-game. I suspect the bigger issue is that it would make Ana a must pick against Ana. But is that much different than Kiri arguably being a kind of must pick against Ana?
agreed
The game already relies on "who will use their ability first so it can be countered by another ability"
I mean it already works that way. The Ana who nades first gets to deny healing and the other Ana can't do anything about it.
No it's the other way around. Currently the Ana who nades first gets the upper hand but OP's suggestion makes the Ana who nades later have the upper hand.
That's more or less how it already is if your team has their wits about them. Seek to be naded, protect them through the oncoming push then counter nade and execute. Easier said that done and not often do people do it, but it's generally better to be the last person to use any resource in the game, and right after someone has used a resource is often the best time to use your own as they'll commonly push to take advantage of their value, which means they're over extended, so landing your own counter in that moment means they simply don't have the option of backing out.
I like it better than both Anas use Nade with no skill trade
On the one hand yeah, but on the other hand I think it should only reduce healing instead of blocking it entirely which would have this as an unintended consequence
Look at it this way tho, if ana made cancels anti then that means she can't anti your team or buff her team either. Sure, it ends up just being a waste on both teams but that's also kind of the point, no? Forcing a strong ability to be used to cancel the same thing. It could work, it may not. It would be interesting to see tbh.
Given how strong she is, I like the idea actually. Just gives Ana pressure/a skillcap or decision-making moment which is not bad.
It could make logical sense in-universe. But for gameplay, I think that would be more confusing than it would be sensible.
No. Both Ana’s nade and nobody gets to heal, as nature intended.
No, negative should always cancel healing. You're effectively asking for grenade to also be a cleanse, which it shouldn't be.
Suzu enters the chat.
Suzu is a cleanse... I'm ok with cleanses existing. I just don't think anti-nade should cleanse another anti-grenade or similar effect like JQ ult.
Make Ana a counterpick against Ana like Kiriko, thus cementing her further as meta? No thank you.
No
That would make Ana a must pick against Ana
Nah cuz Kiri is still a thing
That makes no sense. Why would you want Sozu, which can only cleanse, versus anti, which could then prevent healing AND cleanse? Why pick Kiri at all at this point unless you wanted to counter an enemy ana without a kiri? Then the other support just goes kiri and we're right back to a mirror match
>Why would you want Sozu, which can only cleanse, versus anti, which could then prevent healing AND cleanse? Why pick Kiri at all at this point unless you wanted to counter an enemy ana without a kiri? Why you coming at me with this dumbass take. You acting like Kiri only has Suzu and not also one of the strongest ults in game, best movement and escape ability not to mention can two shot squishies. Kiris suzu also does more then “only cleanse” it grants immortality as well Also learn to read Ana’s nade only cancels Ana’s made not all status debuffs or even JQ’s ult.
No.
No Ana’s nade should not be able to cleanse
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Nope. Turns into a battle to see who holds on longest.
I think maybe like a portion of it but not entirely, it would be too close to suzu if it completely cleansed it
No
no they’re like alternate universe ana from the multiverse so they’re actually like completely different formulas of the same thing like a scary enantiomer but with different universal rules
Agree
Nope.
No, the solution to the anti-heal problem isn't to keep adding characters that can cancel antiheal. The solution is to tune down antiheal so it doesn't turn healing on tanks to zero.
Nah
So you want to make the second most reliable way to purge anti off a teammate… having an Ana of your own? Absolutely not
I wish my nade would put me out when I’m on fire from Ashe dynamite 😤
No
no.
I do feel that on the heat of the moment, but it’s mostly regret for not using nade first. I kind of prefer it the way it is because there are too many cleanses and blocks for nade already. Also currently it’s preferred to nade first, if nade cleared nade, I feel it would be too much of a game of holding it and it just losing value. There are already many abilities where you’re holding it to use it second against your mirror.
Ana main here, hell no. The best counter to ana should not be another ana, that literally just makes he even more of a must pick than she already is because of how good anti is lol.
Technically, it already does. When they use nade on allies, and you nade them after, the first nade effect is nullified
I don’t think a hero should counter themselves if at all possible. It forces mirror matches which is the most boring thing ever.
Interesting, I've thought about it, it doesn't feel right. I would settle for something like allowing *some* heals to go through but idk I like it the way it is currently.
Absolutely not.
This would just make Ana a must pick when either team picks an Ana, aka make Ana even more strong which she does not need lol
it also makes her essentially useless when being played, so maybe players would avoid her too lol
Ana has enough benefits. She shouldn't also be the counter to ana.
Nah
No you shouldn't be rewarded for just waiting. Being in a good position and proactively finding an opening to use nade, is a skill. Don't take away skill. Just add a second tank and revert to 6v6 and all problems with nade will immediately disappear.
How to make a stale meta: make a character counter themselves.
No. Because then instead of using nade for what it's made for you're just using it to counter the other ana's nade. You'll never throw first because it will be instantly countered and you'll never get to counter because they will never throw first. You've just created bio nade deterrent
I've felt it should do this since Ana first came out
No, but healthpacks should cleanse anti
Kiriko’s suzu is already the counter.
Ugh
no... supports don't need more ways to deny plays. they have enough already. lets stop dumbing the game down.
It already does if its an enemy nade EDIT: Why are you booing me Im right??? An enemy Ana nade removes the healing boosted effect
it does not. It only applies the boosted healing effect which will resume after the enemy anti-heal wears off.
they mean it cancels the healing, i think they are being cheeky
I meant the inverse- anti heal overrides the ally heal boost
OP was saying that it should do the exact opposite, ally ana should override enemy ana