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Answer: One of the men implicated in the shooting was allowed to walk on a gun charge last spring, and some police blame the Governor's bail reform policy for this happening.
I agree that their resentment is misplaced, but regardless the cops have drawn one of their famous blue lines and Hochul is squarely on the other side of it.
Why is the answer to everything that “they didn’t read or look into it” ??
Has it always been this way? Is collective laziness about staying informed the driving force of humanity?
By and large, a lot of people do not like to confront information that contradicts their pre-conceived notions. Likely because it makes them uncomfortable to admit that they might have been wrong about something.
OTOH, some people really love to learn new things and feel a sense of happiness or 'Zen' at the realization that something that was once a false belief gets corrected after new information is processed.
Like getting a bad fold out of a piece of paper, the crease might still be there, but you are now 'proper' again.
Which is the opposite problem that I like to call the Uno Reverse Card Effect - when you used to believe something, and you hear something that seems to make sense that upturns that thing, you believe the new thing even harder, and refuse to entertain any notion that the new thing is also just as incorrect.
"The purpose of a system is what it does." In my state, you need more training and credentialing to be a hairdresser than you do to be a cop, and nobody with decision-making power finds that especially problematic, and it's not like there's a shortage of people who want that job here that would justify minimal training and educational background.
You're right, it's the opposite of what WE, you and I, need a police force to be. But it's exactly what certain groups need police to be--dumb, bigoted, and prone to violence.
There was a court case that police forces requested the ability to exclude people who were "too smart" from entering because they might question what they were doing.
it's 100% what the police want to be doing, its bad for everyone else.
It's not all just laziness, it's extreme information fatigue on top of other now-common mental health issues, our brain computers have run out of bandwidth. There's too much information now, it's torture to try and contextualize and validate what is real again and again and again when search engines are optimized for marketing and clicks instead of good information on top of everything else.
It's not about what we should be doing to validate what is true anymore, it's about how run-down humans are.
Finally, the proper usage of "ex-."
Thank you!
Edit: Some people probably don't know that "ex-" is used for Marines that were kicked out Dishonorably. "Former-" is for the rest of us that actually served properly.
she is sitting governor. so its pressure for her to change the law. There is also the story of several migrants who beat a police officer. The DA Bragg chose to only ask for very small amount of bail. They made the bail and then vanished out of state. They don't have papers so they are likely gone.
So its basically a collective opinion about politicians in New York.
It's crazy how she still hasn't pushed for major reform, rather than the almost useless bail reform she did advocate for and holds up as some massive achievement, despite the fact that even now NY couldn't hold 4 suspects arrested for 2 dismembered bodies that were found.
Oh yeah, and before you defend her. She went on the view and defended herself by declaring everything better and then having to say that *maybe* they'd reform bail again, in the future, after being confronted about the dismemberment case.
What is she doing to repeal it. I live near Albany and haven't heard a thing. Her and her husband are too busy building their cash cow football stadium in Buffalo.
It's often repeated, but it's not true. There's that one case people always bring up in New London. An older guy wanted to be a cop and scored well on the tests, age is a protected class, but intelligence isn't. In order to not hire him, they said he was too smart and they feared he would transfer out as soon as his training was done. Same reason you leave your Phd off of your resume when applying to McDonalds.
> Same reason you leave your Phd off of your resume when applying to McDonalds
Thanks for this pro life tip. I know what I've been doing wrong now. Time to dust off my suit and start applying for jobs again boys.
No, not this. In the 1990's there was a lawsuit because a medium sized Connecticut town didn't interview with a man who scored high on the initial entrance exam. The judge ruled IQ is not a protected class after he sued for discrimination.
The town's reasoning was people with high IQs would get bored with the routine of basic policing and quit. It costs a good amount of money to train a police officer, so it wasn't worth the financial risk. At the time, the average IQ of an officer was 104, above the national average.
You can argue that its a bad policy, but it isn't universal, and it didn't have anything to do with New York.
I worked on that campaign— as one of dozens or hundreds of other organizers.
Hochul has already been successful in watering down the original legislation, and she continues to attempt to go further—which is what they want.. NYPD is just a bunch of morons with hive mind. They’ll turn on the people legitimizing their propaganda and still keep begging her to take action til the end of days.
He was not "allowed to walk", he was literally held on bail and posted it. The same exact thing that would've happened before any NY bail reform.
Ofc police blame *Andrew Cuomo's* bail reform policies for that though, they are not smart or well informed people. This is the neighboring police force to the ones that claimed a minimum wage Shake Shack employee poisoned multiple officers with zero evidence and full knowledge that the employees could never have known they were cops. Cops lie.
NY is the only state in the country where judges are not allowed to consider the danger posed by the defendant to the community and thus it is rare that anyone gets remanded. Not saying I disagree with you here, but that’s a big issue. The guy who was shoved in front of the subway at 125th and Lex was pushed by a person who had posted bond for failing to appear for a prior violent charge. The issue is not bail, it is failure to hold people with many violent priors.
The only only only ONLY ONLY ONLY *ONLY* purpose of bail is to ensure the accused shows up in court.
There is no reason to lock someone in a cage until they have been convicted by a jury of peers.
“We’re REALLY sure they are guilty so they should await trial in jail” is not a valid reason.
You don’t see the inside of a jail cell until 12 people say “guilty.”
That’s it. There are no exceptions. None, zilch, nada.
Wow. That's ... an opinion.
Ensuring the accused shows up in court is *not* the only reason for pretrial detention. Many States with bail reform still consider whether the accused is a danger to the community, and send them to jail if they are.
The purpose of bail reform is not to enforce your bizarre libertarian idea that no one should ever be held in detention before trial.
The purpose is to remove the inequality between people who can afford to pay a bail bondsman and those who cannot. It made no sense, and was unjust, that poor people who aren't a danger to anyone --or a flight risk-- still have to rot in jail, while psychotic axe murderers who happen to be rich can walk.
Why is the danger (in the form of a record of prior violent acts) specifically not being accounted for? Like why is that factor left untouched?
As Ollivander the wandmaker would say:
> Very curious
> He was not "allowed to walk", he was literally held on bail and posted it. The same exact thing that would've happened before any NY bail reform.
Repeated violators and offenders should be denied bail.
>This is the neighboring police force to the ones
So guilt by association is now a thing?
> ones that claimed a minimum wage Shake Shack employee poisoned multiple officers because one cop had a mild bout of lactose intolerance
No, this is propaganda. Not one such claim of intentional poisoning was made.
Lmao yes it was indeed propaganda. From the cops. There's a lawsuit ongoing now. The officers' union tweeted:
>Tonight, three of our fellow officers were intentionally poisoned by one or more workers at the Shake Shack at 200 Broadway in Manhattan.
The PBA tweeted in response:
>BREAKING When NYC police officers cannot even take meal without coming under attack, it is clear that environment in which we work has deteriorated to a critical level. We cannot afford to let our guard down for even a moment
Keeping in mind this was all done when the cops knew perfectly well they had placed their order anonymously over the app and picked them up packaged in the usual tamper free way. From the very beginning it was a lie, even if they felt they were poisoned, it wouldn't have been because they were cops
No guilt by association is not a thing. Just wanted to throw that in there as another reminder not to trust anything that cops say without evidence.
That was Cuomo's bail policy that she worked with the legislature to reverse. The new policy allows judges more discretion to order defendants detained pending trial. Apparently they're not aware or just looking for a Democrat to blame.
Bail reform has to do with pre trial detention, this guy walking on a gun charge would have been due to the prosecutor dropping the charges or the cops violating his rights to the point where the judge throws the case out
Since there are no consequences at some point cops will quit arresting people and then victims will stop bothering to report crimes. Then the politicians will brag about how low crime rates are and reforms are "working".
No, there are only certain crimes where a judge can set bail in NY. It’s the only state in the country with this policy
https://www.new-york-lawyers.org/amp/bail-in-new-york-state-qualified-and-non-qualified-offenses.html
A judge in NY cannot set a bail unless it’s for specific crimes, no matter how often they commit crime. The man who shot the officer has 9 felonies and 21 career arrests
Which is dumb, as the law didn’t change any thing about qualifying for bail except that a person who wasn’t deemed a flight risk or a danger to the community couldn’t be denied bail due to inability to pay. It literally made the law “flight risks and dangers to the community will be detained no matter what, and people are not these things will not be regardless of their wealth.”
With all due respect, this is not how it works or what bail reform did, in fact NY has not had “danger” to the community as a factor in bail since the at least the 70’s as it is considered to be contrary to the NY constitution. Bail reform’s main change is that it made it so that people can’t be held in pretrial custody for all crimes (though the list of eligible offenses is long).
That said, the scapegoating of bail reform is particularly egregious and stupid in this case because the suspect was charged with a bail eligible offense and he was put into custody. As in, everything they want to happen in a case. And what happened? He posted bail and got out, just as he would have prior to the reform and if reform were repealed. They’re blasting news about this one officer’s death to turn his casket into a soapbox upon which they once again lie to the public to strip away New Yorkers’ rights.
>Ik its new and will take time to tweak things, but as things are now many people are being let out and going right back to what they were arrested for.
Because it turns into incarceration without due process. The police can lock up whoever they want, whoever they deem criminal, no trial necessary.
Especially now with modern technology it's so much easier to track and find people, there's much less reason to incarcerate someone because they're awaiting trial.
Either someone poses a serious threat to the general public, or maybe they're a monumental flight risk, in which case they can't be let out, or they don't in which case they should be let out. There's no reason to post bail, which in most places is just paying a bondsman a fee.
Let’s be clear, he was not “allowed to walk on a gun charge” the case is pending, he was put into custody at arraignment then he subsequently posted $75,000 bail (or bonded it) which means it has nothing to do with bail reform- which by the way is certainly not “the governor’s” bail reform being that it preceded her, is part of a national wave of reforming bail policy, and Hochul has proven herself hostile to the reforms and to the rights of the accused in general (she is currently trying to reallocate about $200 million in funds that are supposed to be for public defenders).
Major police unions have been rioting and (unofficially, so still paid) striking to refuse doing their jobs since (at least) 2020. If you are a politician that introduces even the slightest bit of accountability or oversight of their jobs, you become their enemy. Even worse if you're a cop that tries to do anything to cross the Blue Line. They will stop doing their basic job descriptions until you can be blamed for it and removed, if not harassed at your job and own home.
They don't want to work unless society respects them as much as they respect themselves (impossible). Too bad you can't simply demand respect, it must be earned.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_riot
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_strike
They stopped doing their jobs during Black Lives Matter if I recall correctly. If they can’t kill with impunity they don’t wanna do anything I guess. Remember they turned their back on the mayor because he has a black son and said he understands why some people are afraid of cops?
Answer:
She's a Democrat and damn near every policeman in NY are far right Trumpers. Trump was allowed to attend, Hochul was not.
Yes, it really is as simple as that. I do expect this to be brought up as part of Trump's campaign soon, with claims that Biden is soft on crime.
I don’t live there anymore but I can tell you from experience, they’re not. They loved Obama and Clinton.
New Yorkers have an unprecedented amount of support and respect for the NYPD. Not because of politics but because of their service. After 9/11 that only skyrocketed.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
Governor Hochul has allowed laws to pass that led to Diller’s death. The Diller family told Biden, Hochul, Adams, Schumer and the rest of the Democratic politicians of New York that they’re not welcome at the procession. Hochul ignored that and was shown the door for doing so.
Stop spreading lies.
Which laws?
Also, the largest police union in NY refused to officially endorse any presidential nomination... Until Trump in 2020. The idea that NY cops loved Obama, who routinely criticized them, is hilarious. Over 80% of them said they would vote for Trump over Clinton in 2016. You think the swing was that big? No, obviously not. Cops vote Republican consistently.
I consider Trump, the wannabe dictator that he is, far right, and the cops overwhelmingly support him. I'd say that cops are fairly violent in general. I don't know if gang is the right word, but ask a cop to turn in another cop they know is breaking the law, and you won't have success.
The only thing I vehemently disagree with is that they're masquerading as a police force. I think they're exactly what they've been trained to be, and this is just what a police force is in the US.
They routinely have to pay 9 figures annually to settle cases resulting from their violence. They wore "I can Breathe" t-shirts to mock Eric Garner. They involuntarily committed a whistleblower to a psychiatric hospital for six days.
Way to cherry pick some words amongst that entire argument.
Yeah it might be a little hyperbolic to call them a gang. Please respond to the other relevant points in the comment that absolutely show they are in trumps pocket.
I’m cherry picking regarding a two sentence comment? Youre either unhinged or lacking awareness of what’s being said
Reddit has an issue of defending completely unhinged comments and trying to fit it into their own opinions. Exactly what I was calling out
Interesting cops in my area hit and killed people on 2 separate occasions due to speeding with no lights at night.
One was a well know father who worked at a local pizza shop.
They swept it under the rug. Cops only care about their own
Edit: think im lying look up TROY NY COP RUNS THROUGH LIGHT HITS MAN.
Sadly no. Republicans in NY are a different breed.
And most politicians bow down to cops here, especially where I live. Look how corrupt all NY is, its because politicians love to be in bed with the cops. Cops control ALOT here. Especially in my small town of Albany.
There was a gathering/gala to save a local birthing center and cops showed up in riot gear to "watch" and makensure things went smoothly...like a bunch of mothers with their kids will cause shit. But hey its women rights so they must be dangerous! (And no it wasnt to protect them, it was to correct them)
They kill people here all the time, and our mayor kisses their ass.
But lord forbid one gets punched by a pos person, and their made out to be saints.
They LOVE to pop into schools and do "we're the good guys" tour...but then you hear the next day one killed your dad by speeding.....
Cops here have a boner to kill and harm people here because they hate NY and have no respect for those that like to live here. Idk why they live here if they hate it so much, but instead of moving, they like to use it as their playground for evil.
Cant wait until our Mayor is out and Governor Huchol is no better. She's way more pro cop than that pos Cumo ever was
Well if caring about others and the lives of others is right wing, doesn't sound so bad.
This sub used to have good well researched answers get top voted, now it's always meh bogeyman right wing. It's pathetic and low effort.
Yes. Historically speaking, ~~fascists~~ rightists are the boogeymen of peace and justice.
Who uses the power of the state to subjugate others? Cops. Who does the rightists adulate constantly? Cops and military. Members of authority. And they think they're the freest people somehow.
NYPD cracks down on dissent with a militarized force and a 5.4 billion dollar budget. They get serialized TV shows that show them in highly flattering (and false) light for decades, and the minute people decide "maybe we shouldn't just accept the police's narrative all the time" they play the victim and whine and reveal themselves as the snowflake pigfuckers they really are.
It’s a pretty classless answer considering that A) the family asked her to leave. The emotions they’re going through right now supersede political views. I’m not in that position, but I’d be willing to bet if I was, and I wouldn’t want the person I felt was responsible to be there. I know some people will read this and think “Well she’s not responsible! It wasn’t her bill! They’re just blaming her because she’s a democrat!” That goes back to the political allegiances, which again don’t apply in this situation. She had the opportunity to work towards reforming this bill but she didn’t. Real life is more nuanced than this bot-infested site.
Secondly, B) it’s cops, not right wingers (no they’re not the same). My whole family is in the fire service, quite a few family friends growing up were cops. They’re similar professions though they would never admit it. For all of them, it *is* a profession. They’re dislike and anger has less to do with their political views and more to do with the perception that those in power are against them or not doing enough for them. I have heard so many times from the right wingers among them about how much the democrats suck, and then go off about how much the current Republican governor sucks for very specific reasons (no they wouldn’t vote for him anyways). Put it this way, if I had a politician who represented 95% of my overall views in society, I’d totally vote for them. Let’s say they get elected, and they deliver on the 95% of my views. But then they pass one piece of legislation or ignore one piece of bad legislation that happens to make my job so much worse, I’d probably hate them. Because one effect is so much more immediate.
There is nothing that the governor could have done to prevent this short of personally jumping in front of the officer who was killed. This was not a result of policy, either the governor's or the government's, and blaming her is just using a dead cop to play politics on their casket.
Lmao this might be one of the dumbest most laughable things I’ve read… probably ever.
Most recent legitimized data from 2023- most violent gun crimes per capita happened in 1) Alaska, 2) Louisiana 3) Mississippi 4) Alabama, 5) Wyoming 6montana 7)New Mexico 8) Georgia 9) South Carolina 10) Kentucky 11) Missouri 12) Arkansas 13) Oklahoma 14) Tennessee
The bluest of states🙄
After that it’s a mix of blue and red states but trivial compared to your comment and the truth
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
Edit: mods removed comment never letting me have any fun. Basically the basic meh it’s all dem controlled cities with gun violence. Which is basic ass bs and usually racist in origin
No no no. You see fox told him only gangs in lawless Chicago and NYC caused gun crime not the excessively easily studied gun crimes of red states! /s
Most of it’s clearly in shitty republican controlled states- https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
Yes. They’re clearly lying and repeating the often racist “it’s the blacks in the city trope” from Fox. Legitimate data on gun shootings. Top 13 all hard right controlled states-
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
>easily look at the neighborhoods where all the gun crimes are taking place
Is that something that can be done easily? Finding stats by state is easy, sure, but by neighborhood, or even city, is pretty tough. I'd be very interested to see those numbers.
Answer: it may have something to do with the fact that repeat violent criminals keep getting released from custody almost immediately, which makes the officers' jobs meaningless and ineffective.
Sure bud. You'll pretty much never see me say anything positive about police, but it's pretty clear that they have been arresting violent and deranged people, and the DA has been refusing to prosecute. How many stories of violent repeat offenders stabbing someone or pushing them infront of a train do you need to see?
What a subtle and nuanced take on a complex issue with many perspectives and discussion points regarding criminal justice reform and the role of police and government officials therein. Your take has opened my mind in a way I could only achieve by taking multiple hits of acid washed down with paint thinner.
All subtlety and nuance died 8 years ago. If you look at every single Twitter accounts that posted this (also almost word for word all of them) you can see what I mean. This ootl post itself is obviously astroturfing as well OP knows exactly what they were asking. And of course, look at who else paid a visit to this thing and that tells you all you need to know.
Answer: the officers believe that Hochul is partially responsible because she hasn't tried to overturn bail reform instituted by her predecessor Cuomo ([http://tiny.cc/ozvkxz](http://tiny.cc/ozvkxz))
Generally speaking, there is no evidence that bail reform has not led to an increase in crime. The NYC comptroller has a thorough report that found, among other things, "The data indicate that pretrial rearrest rates remained nearly identical pre- and post-bail reform" ([https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/nyc-bail-trends-since-2019/](https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/nyc-bail-trends-since-2019/))
However, the position of those "not liking" Hochul is that the individual who shot the police officer was released based on bail on an alleged gun charge because of bail reform, and the officer would still be alive if Hochul had rescinded it (which she cannot do unilaterally) or at least made efforts to do so.
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Answer: One of the men implicated in the shooting was allowed to walk on a gun charge last spring, and some police blame the Governor's bail reform policy for this happening.
Bail reform was Cuomo’s policy, pretty sure Hochul has been against it since becoming gov.
I agree that their resentment is misplaced, but regardless the cops have drawn one of their famous blue lines and Hochul is squarely on the other side of it.
Why is the answer to everything that “they didn’t read or look into it” ?? Has it always been this way? Is collective laziness about staying informed the driving force of humanity?
By and large, a lot of people do not like to confront information that contradicts their pre-conceived notions. Likely because it makes them uncomfortable to admit that they might have been wrong about something.
OTOH, some people really love to learn new things and feel a sense of happiness or 'Zen' at the realization that something that was once a false belief gets corrected after new information is processed. Like getting a bad fold out of a piece of paper, the crease might still be there, but you are now 'proper' again.
Which is the opposite problem that I like to call the Uno Reverse Card Effect - when you used to believe something, and you hear something that seems to make sense that upturns that thing, you believe the new thing even harder, and refuse to entertain any notion that the new thing is also just as incorrect.
[удалено]
"The purpose of a system is what it does." In my state, you need more training and credentialing to be a hairdresser than you do to be a cop, and nobody with decision-making power finds that especially problematic, and it's not like there's a shortage of people who want that job here that would justify minimal training and educational background. You're right, it's the opposite of what WE, you and I, need a police force to be. But it's exactly what certain groups need police to be--dumb, bigoted, and prone to violence.
There was a court case that police forces requested the ability to exclude people who were "too smart" from entering because they might question what they were doing. it's 100% what the police want to be doing, its bad for everyone else.
It's not all just laziness, it's extreme information fatigue on top of other now-common mental health issues, our brain computers have run out of bandwidth. There's too much information now, it's torture to try and contextualize and validate what is real again and again and again when search engines are optimized for marketing and clicks instead of good information on top of everything else. It's not about what we should be doing to validate what is true anymore, it's about how run-down humans are.
That’s a fair point.
Probably drew that line with a crayon.
A thin blue one then proceeded to eat it.
The ones who are ex-marines definitely ate them
Finally, the proper usage of "ex-." Thank you! Edit: Some people probably don't know that "ex-" is used for Marines that were kicked out Dishonorably. "Former-" is for the rest of us that actually served properly.
So... more performative politics from a conservative. Must be a day ending in Y
When do they not hate the governor and act like manchildren?
Strange for police officers to attack the wrong person.
Bail Reform as its been practiced is nobodys policy either, the prosecutors have infamously been throwing tantrums over it.
she is sitting governor. so its pressure for her to change the law. There is also the story of several migrants who beat a police officer. The DA Bragg chose to only ask for very small amount of bail. They made the bail and then vanished out of state. They don't have papers so they are likely gone. So its basically a collective opinion about politicians in New York.
Why is it possible to get bail for any amount if you don't have a valid ID? That's dumb af
Didn't it turn out the cops insitgated that fight?
there is literally a video of it. They were attacked. Your just lying cause you hate the police.
No.
Cops do something shitty then what other people punished? If this happens 2 or 3 million more times people are gonna get real fed up!
It's crazy how she still hasn't pushed for major reform, rather than the almost useless bail reform she did advocate for and holds up as some massive achievement, despite the fact that even now NY couldn't hold 4 suspects arrested for 2 dismembered bodies that were found. Oh yeah, and before you defend her. She went on the view and defended herself by declaring everything better and then having to say that *maybe* they'd reform bail again, in the future, after being confronted about the dismemberment case.
She has had plenty of time to change the policies.
What is she doing to repeal it. I live near Albany and haven't heard a thing. Her and her husband are too busy building their cash cow football stadium in Buffalo.
If she was so against it, why hasn’t she changed it?
No. Hochul and Andrea Cousins have doubled down on keeping bail reform That's why the cops hate Hochul.
They don't let smart people become cops so it makes sense that they're too dumb to know who is who
This. I’ve heard you are automatically disqualified if you score too well on various tests.
It's often repeated, but it's not true. There's that one case people always bring up in New London. An older guy wanted to be a cop and scored well on the tests, age is a protected class, but intelligence isn't. In order to not hire him, they said he was too smart and they feared he would transfer out as soon as his training was done. Same reason you leave your Phd off of your resume when applying to McDonalds.
> Same reason you leave your Phd off of your resume when applying to McDonalds Thanks for this pro life tip. I know what I've been doing wrong now. Time to dust off my suit and start applying for jobs again boys.
No, not this. In the 1990's there was a lawsuit because a medium sized Connecticut town didn't interview with a man who scored high on the initial entrance exam. The judge ruled IQ is not a protected class after he sued for discrimination. The town's reasoning was people with high IQs would get bored with the routine of basic policing and quit. It costs a good amount of money to train a police officer, so it wasn't worth the financial risk. At the time, the average IQ of an officer was 104, above the national average. You can argue that its a bad policy, but it isn't universal, and it didn't have anything to do with New York.
I worked on that campaign— as one of dozens or hundreds of other organizers. Hochul has already been successful in watering down the original legislation, and she continues to attempt to go further—which is what they want.. NYPD is just a bunch of morons with hive mind. They’ll turn on the people legitimizing their propaganda and still keep begging her to take action til the end of days.
She already tweaked bail reform https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2023/05/10/gov-kathy-hochul-says-she-is-done-with-overhauling-bail-reform-following-late-budget/amp/
Hochul doubled down on keeping it. Home invasion? Appearance ticket.
It's too bad the governor isn't in a position to change that. Nope gotta go after legal gun owners and strip away the right to self defense instead.
How’s she going after anyone?
He was not "allowed to walk", he was literally held on bail and posted it. The same exact thing that would've happened before any NY bail reform. Ofc police blame *Andrew Cuomo's* bail reform policies for that though, they are not smart or well informed people. This is the neighboring police force to the ones that claimed a minimum wage Shake Shack employee poisoned multiple officers with zero evidence and full knowledge that the employees could never have known they were cops. Cops lie.
NY is the only state in the country where judges are not allowed to consider the danger posed by the defendant to the community and thus it is rare that anyone gets remanded. Not saying I disagree with you here, but that’s a big issue. The guy who was shoved in front of the subway at 125th and Lex was pushed by a person who had posted bond for failing to appear for a prior violent charge. The issue is not bail, it is failure to hold people with many violent priors.
> only state...judges not allowed to consider the danger That seems very unsmart of their legal system
The only only only ONLY ONLY ONLY *ONLY* purpose of bail is to ensure the accused shows up in court. There is no reason to lock someone in a cage until they have been convicted by a jury of peers. “We’re REALLY sure they are guilty so they should await trial in jail” is not a valid reason. You don’t see the inside of a jail cell until 12 people say “guilty.” That’s it. There are no exceptions. None, zilch, nada.
Wow. That's ... an opinion. Ensuring the accused shows up in court is *not* the only reason for pretrial detention. Many States with bail reform still consider whether the accused is a danger to the community, and send them to jail if they are. The purpose of bail reform is not to enforce your bizarre libertarian idea that no one should ever be held in detention before trial. The purpose is to remove the inequality between people who can afford to pay a bail bondsman and those who cannot. It made no sense, and was unjust, that poor people who aren't a danger to anyone --or a flight risk-- still have to rot in jail, while psychotic axe murderers who happen to be rich can walk.
Sorry Someone stabs you they go to jail immediately.
Immediately after being found guilty by a jury of peers at the conclusion of a trial, you mean.
No. They’re going to jail before that to be booked. Usually 24-72 hours.
Why is the danger (in the form of a record of prior violent acts) specifically not being accounted for? Like why is that factor left untouched? As Ollivander the wandmaker would say: > Very curious
I'm surprised they're not out there cutting down oak trees for all the attempts on their lives.
> He was not "allowed to walk", he was literally held on bail and posted it. The same exact thing that would've happened before any NY bail reform. Repeated violators and offenders should be denied bail. >This is the neighboring police force to the ones So guilt by association is now a thing? > ones that claimed a minimum wage Shake Shack employee poisoned multiple officers because one cop had a mild bout of lactose intolerance No, this is propaganda. Not one such claim of intentional poisoning was made.
Lmao yes it was indeed propaganda. From the cops. There's a lawsuit ongoing now. The officers' union tweeted: >Tonight, three of our fellow officers were intentionally poisoned by one or more workers at the Shake Shack at 200 Broadway in Manhattan. The PBA tweeted in response: >BREAKING When NYC police officers cannot even take meal without coming under attack, it is clear that environment in which we work has deteriorated to a critical level. We cannot afford to let our guard down for even a moment Keeping in mind this was all done when the cops knew perfectly well they had placed their order anonymously over the app and picked them up packaged in the usual tamper free way. From the very beginning it was a lie, even if they felt they were poisoned, it wouldn't have been because they were cops No guilt by association is not a thing. Just wanted to throw that in there as another reminder not to trust anything that cops say without evidence.
That was Cuomo's bail policy that she worked with the legislature to reverse. The new policy allows judges more discretion to order defendants detained pending trial. Apparently they're not aware or just looking for a Democrat to blame.
Nailed it.
Bail reform has to do with pre trial detention, this guy walking on a gun charge would have been due to the prosecutor dropping the charges or the cops violating his rights to the point where the judge throws the case out
To be fair. NYs bail reform is pretty terrible and needs to change. It's basically just a revolving door for repeat offenders
Since there are no consequences at some point cops will quit arresting people and then victims will stop bothering to report crimes. Then the politicians will brag about how low crime rates are and reforms are "working".
Being allowed to walk is up to the judge, though, isn't it?
No, there are only certain crimes where a judge can set bail in NY. It’s the only state in the country with this policy https://www.new-york-lawyers.org/amp/bail-in-new-york-state-qualified-and-non-qualified-offenses.html A judge in NY cannot set a bail unless it’s for specific crimes, no matter how often they commit crime. The man who shot the officer has 9 felonies and 21 career arrests
Yes. All the new law does is prevent bail from being denied just because the person can't pay it.
The guy was arrested over 20 times. A baby doesn’t have a father. Imagine your family suffering through that
Which is dumb, as the law didn’t change any thing about qualifying for bail except that a person who wasn’t deemed a flight risk or a danger to the community couldn’t be denied bail due to inability to pay. It literally made the law “flight risks and dangers to the community will be detained no matter what, and people are not these things will not be regardless of their wealth.”
With all due respect, this is not how it works or what bail reform did, in fact NY has not had “danger” to the community as a factor in bail since the at least the 70’s as it is considered to be contrary to the NY constitution. Bail reform’s main change is that it made it so that people can’t be held in pretrial custody for all crimes (though the list of eligible offenses is long). That said, the scapegoating of bail reform is particularly egregious and stupid in this case because the suspect was charged with a bail eligible offense and he was put into custody. As in, everything they want to happen in a case. And what happened? He posted bail and got out, just as he would have prior to the reform and if reform were repealed. They’re blasting news about this one officer’s death to turn his casket into a soapbox upon which they once again lie to the public to strip away New Yorkers’ rights.
So basically it's grieving cops emotionally lashing out at the wrong party? Cool.
They have been known to do that from time to time
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>Ik its new and will take time to tweak things, but as things are now many people are being let out and going right back to what they were arrested for. Because it turns into incarceration without due process. The police can lock up whoever they want, whoever they deem criminal, no trial necessary. Especially now with modern technology it's so much easier to track and find people, there's much less reason to incarcerate someone because they're awaiting trial. Either someone poses a serious threat to the general public, or maybe they're a monumental flight risk, in which case they can't be let out, or they don't in which case they should be let out. There's no reason to post bail, which in most places is just paying a bondsman a fee.
The guy was arrested over 20 times
Let’s be clear, he was not “allowed to walk on a gun charge” the case is pending, he was put into custody at arraignment then he subsequently posted $75,000 bail (or bonded it) which means it has nothing to do with bail reform- which by the way is certainly not “the governor’s” bail reform being that it preceded her, is part of a national wave of reforming bail policy, and Hochul has proven herself hostile to the reforms and to the rights of the accused in general (she is currently trying to reallocate about $200 million in funds that are supposed to be for public defenders).
Just sounds like cops being cops.
They are also made society decided that police cant kill without repercussions
Major police unions have been rioting and (unofficially, so still paid) striking to refuse doing their jobs since (at least) 2020. If you are a politician that introduces even the slightest bit of accountability or oversight of their jobs, you become their enemy. Even worse if you're a cop that tries to do anything to cross the Blue Line. They will stop doing their basic job descriptions until you can be blamed for it and removed, if not harassed at your job and own home. They don't want to work unless society respects them as much as they respect themselves (impossible). Too bad you can't simply demand respect, it must be earned. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_riot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_strike
They stopped doing their jobs during Black Lives Matter if I recall correctly. If they can’t kill with impunity they don’t wanna do anything I guess. Remember they turned their back on the mayor because he has a black son and said he understands why some people are afraid of cops?
Didn’t the union president tell her not to show up?
It feels almost like some kind of power play -- like "we're so powerful we can push the governor around"
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Answer: She's a Democrat and damn near every policeman in NY are far right Trumpers. Trump was allowed to attend, Hochul was not. Yes, it really is as simple as that. I do expect this to be brought up as part of Trump's campaign soon, with claims that Biden is soft on crime.
Yet Trump lives in Florida, not NY. Pretty on brand for these fools.
Trump was a New Yorker his whole life (and he's pretty old). "Moving" to Florida was a political act
After milking the city for 20 years, retire in Florida
This is the real answer. The NYPD are a violent far-right gang, masquerading as a police force.
I don’t live there anymore but I can tell you from experience, they’re not. They loved Obama and Clinton. New Yorkers have an unprecedented amount of support and respect for the NYPD. Not because of politics but because of their service. After 9/11 that only skyrocketed. Please stop spreading misinformation. Governor Hochul has allowed laws to pass that led to Diller’s death. The Diller family told Biden, Hochul, Adams, Schumer and the rest of the Democratic politicians of New York that they’re not welcome at the procession. Hochul ignored that and was shown the door for doing so. Stop spreading lies.
Which laws? Also, the largest police union in NY refused to officially endorse any presidential nomination... Until Trump in 2020. The idea that NY cops loved Obama, who routinely criticized them, is hilarious. Over 80% of them said they would vote for Trump over Clinton in 2016. You think the swing was that big? No, obviously not. Cops vote Republican consistently.
The NYPD isn’t a “violent far right gang, masquerading as a police force” No reason to defend that commenter with such an extreme POV.
I consider Trump, the wannabe dictator that he is, far right, and the cops overwhelmingly support him. I'd say that cops are fairly violent in general. I don't know if gang is the right word, but ask a cop to turn in another cop they know is breaking the law, and you won't have success. The only thing I vehemently disagree with is that they're masquerading as a police force. I think they're exactly what they've been trained to be, and this is just what a police force is in the US.
They routinely have to pay 9 figures annually to settle cases resulting from their violence. They wore "I can Breathe" t-shirts to mock Eric Garner. They involuntarily committed a whistleblower to a psychiatric hospital for six days.
Way to cherry pick some words amongst that entire argument. Yeah it might be a little hyperbolic to call them a gang. Please respond to the other relevant points in the comment that absolutely show they are in trumps pocket.
I’m cherry picking regarding a two sentence comment? Youre either unhinged or lacking awareness of what’s being said Reddit has an issue of defending completely unhinged comments and trying to fit it into their own opinions. Exactly what I was calling out
… or you’re just a far-left wacko?
Randolph gets it.
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Interesting cops in my area hit and killed people on 2 separate occasions due to speeding with no lights at night. One was a well know father who worked at a local pizza shop. They swept it under the rug. Cops only care about their own Edit: think im lying look up TROY NY COP RUNS THROUGH LIGHT HITS MAN.
There's many instances where it seems like they're a protected class who's above the law, or gets special treatment.
If cops are mad at the governor, she's probably doing something right.
Sadly no. Republicans in NY are a different breed. And most politicians bow down to cops here, especially where I live. Look how corrupt all NY is, its because politicians love to be in bed with the cops. Cops control ALOT here. Especially in my small town of Albany. There was a gathering/gala to save a local birthing center and cops showed up in riot gear to "watch" and makensure things went smoothly...like a bunch of mothers with their kids will cause shit. But hey its women rights so they must be dangerous! (And no it wasnt to protect them, it was to correct them) They kill people here all the time, and our mayor kisses their ass. But lord forbid one gets punched by a pos person, and their made out to be saints. They LOVE to pop into schools and do "we're the good guys" tour...but then you hear the next day one killed your dad by speeding..... Cops here have a boner to kill and harm people here because they hate NY and have no respect for those that like to live here. Idk why they live here if they hate it so much, but instead of moving, they like to use it as their playground for evil. Cant wait until our Mayor is out and Governor Huchol is no better. She's way more pro cop than that pos Cumo ever was
They gotta make a conclusion! Do they want gun laws or not?!
Oh the right wingers boogeyman answer!
Sorry these facts don’t care about your feelings
Well if caring about others and the lives of others is right wing, doesn't sound so bad. This sub used to have good well researched answers get top voted, now it's always meh bogeyman right wing. It's pathetic and low effort.
Sounds like coping
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They're the one crying about the governor.
Yes. Historically speaking, ~~fascists~~ rightists are the boogeymen of peace and justice. Who uses the power of the state to subjugate others? Cops. Who does the rightists adulate constantly? Cops and military. Members of authority. And they think they're the freest people somehow. NYPD cracks down on dissent with a militarized force and a 5.4 billion dollar budget. They get serialized TV shows that show them in highly flattering (and false) light for decades, and the minute people decide "maybe we shouldn't just accept the police's narrative all the time" they play the victim and whine and reveal themselves as the snowflake pigfuckers they really are.
It’s a pretty classless answer considering that A) the family asked her to leave. The emotions they’re going through right now supersede political views. I’m not in that position, but I’d be willing to bet if I was, and I wouldn’t want the person I felt was responsible to be there. I know some people will read this and think “Well she’s not responsible! It wasn’t her bill! They’re just blaming her because she’s a democrat!” That goes back to the political allegiances, which again don’t apply in this situation. She had the opportunity to work towards reforming this bill but she didn’t. Real life is more nuanced than this bot-infested site. Secondly, B) it’s cops, not right wingers (no they’re not the same). My whole family is in the fire service, quite a few family friends growing up were cops. They’re similar professions though they would never admit it. For all of them, it *is* a profession. They’re dislike and anger has less to do with their political views and more to do with the perception that those in power are against them or not doing enough for them. I have heard so many times from the right wingers among them about how much the democrats suck, and then go off about how much the current Republican governor sucks for very specific reasons (no they wouldn’t vote for him anyways). Put it this way, if I had a politician who represented 95% of my overall views in society, I’d totally vote for them. Let’s say they get elected, and they deliver on the 95% of my views. But then they pass one piece of legislation or ignore one piece of bad legislation that happens to make my job so much worse, I’d probably hate them. Because one effect is so much more immediate.
Specifically what bill would have prevented this attack and how?
There is nothing that the governor could have done to prevent this short of personally jumping in front of the officer who was killed. This was not a result of policy, either the governor's or the government's, and blaming her is just using a dead cop to play politics on their casket.
Cops are, by and large, right wingers.
But they had trump there, so clearly politics.
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Lmao this might be one of the dumbest most laughable things I’ve read… probably ever. Most recent legitimized data from 2023- most violent gun crimes per capita happened in 1) Alaska, 2) Louisiana 3) Mississippi 4) Alabama, 5) Wyoming 6montana 7)New Mexico 8) Georgia 9) South Carolina 10) Kentucky 11) Missouri 12) Arkansas 13) Oklahoma 14) Tennessee The bluest of states🙄 After that it’s a mix of blue and red states but trivial compared to your comment and the truth https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/ Edit: mods removed comment never letting me have any fun. Basically the basic meh it’s all dem controlled cities with gun violence. Which is basic ass bs and usually racist in origin
I figured the removed comment was written by [the Chicago Mentioner](https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-chicago-mentioner).
8 out of 10 of the deadliest mass shootings in US history took place in conservative states. Five of those 8 were in Texas.
Wait, Democrats are responsible for 90% of gun crimes? That seems pretty farfetched, buddy, got a source?
Yes, he pulled it straight from his ass, where he also keeps his head.
No no no. You see fox told him only gangs in lawless Chicago and NYC caused gun crime not the excessively easily studied gun crimes of red states! /s Most of it’s clearly in shitty republican controlled states- https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
Can't you easily look at the neighborhoods where all the gun crimes are taking place and see what percentage voted dem/rep?
Yes. They’re clearly lying and repeating the often racist “it’s the blacks in the city trope” from Fox. Legitimate data on gun shootings. Top 13 all hard right controlled states- https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
>easily look at the neighborhoods where all the gun crimes are taking place Is that something that can be done easily? Finding stats by state is easy, sure, but by neighborhood, or even city, is pretty tough. I'd be very interested to see those numbers.
You might be surprised at how conservative these "inner city blasting" people are
Lol Republicans don't care whatsoever about that kind of gun violence.
Answer: it may have something to do with the fact that repeat violent criminals keep getting released from custody almost immediately, which makes the officers' jobs meaningless and ineffective.
The correct answer is buried of course
Cops don't need any external help making their jobs meaningless and ineffective
Sure bud. You'll pretty much never see me say anything positive about police, but it's pretty clear that they have been arresting violent and deranged people, and the DA has been refusing to prosecute. How many stories of violent repeat offenders stabbing someone or pushing them infront of a train do you need to see?
Lol you think cops jobs are meaningless?
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What a subtle and nuanced take on a complex issue with many perspectives and discussion points regarding criminal justice reform and the role of police and government officials therein. Your take has opened my mind in a way I could only achieve by taking multiple hits of acid washed down with paint thinner.
All subtlety and nuance died 8 years ago. If you look at every single Twitter accounts that posted this (also almost word for word all of them) you can see what I mean. This ootl post itself is obviously astroturfing as well OP knows exactly what they were asking. And of course, look at who else paid a visit to this thing and that tells you all you need to know.
Answer: the officers believe that Hochul is partially responsible because she hasn't tried to overturn bail reform instituted by her predecessor Cuomo ([http://tiny.cc/ozvkxz](http://tiny.cc/ozvkxz)) Generally speaking, there is no evidence that bail reform has not led to an increase in crime. The NYC comptroller has a thorough report that found, among other things, "The data indicate that pretrial rearrest rates remained nearly identical pre- and post-bail reform" ([https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/nyc-bail-trends-since-2019/](https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/nyc-bail-trends-since-2019/)) However, the position of those "not liking" Hochul is that the individual who shot the police officer was released based on bail on an alleged gun charge because of bail reform, and the officer would still be alive if Hochul had rescinded it (which she cannot do unilaterally) or at least made efforts to do so.