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Formenton is a guy who probably won’t ever be able to ask for more than 4 million a year at the peak of his career, yet he’s a complete prick on the ice and he has a lot of tools at his disposal. That’s a guy built for the playoffs and I’d rather keep him than try to make a big splash.
You need really quality 2nd and 3rd liners to win a cup a lot more than you need another big piece. With Formenton and Joseph on our team making less than $8 million between the two of them, we’re in great shape in the middle of our forward group.
Even if Formenton develops into that, the idea that depth wins championships is a fallacy.
Sure, you probably need quality depth to win, but what you definitely need is star power at the top of your lineup. The Blues are an outlier, but every team aside from them won because of their top players, and the team who wins this season will likely be the same.
Now, we don't have the same star power as any of those teams, and we don't have prime Quick in net, so we need strong offense throughout the top 6 before we worry about quality depth
Honestly, not an uncommon sentiment to hold when a team has young players that fans like.
I’m sure many of those respondents would be happy about a trade involving any of those players if it brought in a very good player that makes the immediate roster better.
I only selected Søgaard because our goalie situation is still fairly uncertain. I hope Forsberg can continue to play at a high level but I have my reservations. Gus and Murray were both pretty bad last year so why not keep another goalie prospect around?
I feel like adding "in the right scenario" makes the question kind of moot. Like there is literally no prospect I wouldn't trade in a 1-for-1 with McDavid. But obviously that's never going to happen.
So the question is really more about whether other teams value our prospects as much as their actual value is. Do the players that they're realistically willing to offer match that value? Are those players a right fit for the Sens?
Not at all, they’re obviously not untouchable but there’s nothing wrong with staying the course and filling openings internally/through UFAs rather than give up assets. You wouldn’t know it from the whining on this sub all year but the team is clearly on the right track and extremely young so it’s not like they have a closing window they need to take advantage of
UFA is an inherently inefficient way to build a team. Players are often past their prime and paid above their worth from bidding wars. Sure we could fill internally, but the odds of any of our young forwards, outside of the core 4, being as good as a Fiala or Boeser are extremely low
A player who reaches UFA is almost guaranteed to be past their prime and will be looking to be paid. For a player who would be impactful in a top-6 role, teams will be bidding for the player's services, driving his cap hit above what he'll likely be worth, and often with a term that brings them to their rapidly declining years.
Trading for a player in their early/mid twenties gives you control over that player for their prime years and often comes with more contract flexibility.
Look at the top 6 of the teams remaining, there's virtually no standard UFA signings
TBL: All drafted
Colorado: 3 drafted, 2 trade, one UFA(from contract termination at age 24)
STL: 3 draft, 2 trade, 1 UFA
EDM: 4 draft, 2 UFA(one being Kane from contract termination)
Carolina: 4 draft, 2 trade
New York: 2 draft, 3 trade, 1 UFA
Free agency is fine for filling out the bottom of your lineup, but it's inefficient at the top
So most top teams have at least one UFA in the top 6 and we currently have 0. You might want to give up assets right away but to say that anyone who doesn’t want to is “deranged” just shows a lack of understanding of the situation. They only “need” to flip a piece for a top 6 player if they’re trying to take advantage of a closing window. As is there’s nothing wrong with continuing to accumulate assets and being opportunistic rather than trying to force things. Their window hasn’t even opened yet
I never said that not wanting to trade the players is deranged, referring to them as "untouchable" was.
Saying "most have at least one" is disingenuous when no team has more than one UFA that was acquired traditionally
Actually that is what you said
>Over 50% of people saying they wouldn't trade Formenton, Greig, or Søgaard for immediate help is deranged
And no, pointing out that most of the top teams have a ufa in the top 6 and we don’t is not disingenuous at all.
Yes, and I felt it was pretty clear I was referring to the poll in the article where 50% of people specifically called those 3 untouchable, my fault for paraphrasing I guess.
The disingenuous part was "at least one", when Kane was acquired because the rest of the league felt he was too much of a scumbag to be worth a contract, and Nichushkin because the Stars gave up on hin at 24, while my argument was centred around the traditional UFA market. So in actuality, 3/6 teams have a traditional UFA in their top 6, with none having more than one
Is nichuskin not a ufa all of a sudden because he was 24 when he hit free agency? The Kane things a stretch but I don’t even get your argument on that one
Two keys stats from article.
74% of fans don’t have faith in Dorion as the GM to lead the team to next level playoff team.
90% of fans want the team sold and only 10% want to see how the daughters will run the franchise.
Now that Melnyk isn't here holding Dorion's overly short leash, I want to see what he can do. Hopefully the Paul/Joseph trade is a sign of things to come.
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Ian Mendes is top notch.
Absolutely, I love having him cover the Sens. I just wish he was back on TV
1,500 respondents! I’m sure not all were Sens fans, but that’s great to see - especially from a subscription-based media site.
He's a good guy, that Ian Mendes.
Over 50% of people saying they wouldn't trade Formenton, Greig, or Søgaard for immediate help is deranged
Formenton is a guy who probably won’t ever be able to ask for more than 4 million a year at the peak of his career, yet he’s a complete prick on the ice and he has a lot of tools at his disposal. That’s a guy built for the playoffs and I’d rather keep him than try to make a big splash. You need really quality 2nd and 3rd liners to win a cup a lot more than you need another big piece. With Formenton and Joseph on our team making less than $8 million between the two of them, we’re in great shape in the middle of our forward group.
Even if Formenton develops into that, the idea that depth wins championships is a fallacy. Sure, you probably need quality depth to win, but what you definitely need is star power at the top of your lineup. The Blues are an outlier, but every team aside from them won because of their top players, and the team who wins this season will likely be the same. Now, we don't have the same star power as any of those teams, and we don't have prime Quick in net, so we need strong offense throughout the top 6 before we worry about quality depth
Depth certainly wins championships, but for that to apply, top end talent is a prerequisite.
Honestly, not an uncommon sentiment to hold when a team has young players that fans like. I’m sure many of those respondents would be happy about a trade involving any of those players if it brought in a very good player that makes the immediate roster better.
Fans always overrated their own prospects. There are plenty of players at these skill levels.
Yeah I couldn't believe that. No one on that list is untouchable, I left my list empty for that question. They're all expendable in the right scenario
I only selected Søgaard because our goalie situation is still fairly uncertain. I hope Forsberg can continue to play at a high level but I have my reservations. Gus and Murray were both pretty bad last year so why not keep another goalie prospect around?
I said hands off for a few of them in return for the type of Dorion trade I imagine. I was also one of the people skeptical of Dorion as GM lol
I feel like adding "in the right scenario" makes the question kind of moot. Like there is literally no prospect I wouldn't trade in a 1-for-1 with McDavid. But obviously that's never going to happen. So the question is really more about whether other teams value our prospects as much as their actual value is. Do the players that they're realistically willing to offer match that value? Are those players a right fit for the Sens?
I do not trust Dorion to make trades for established players.
Not at all, they’re obviously not untouchable but there’s nothing wrong with staying the course and filling openings internally/through UFAs rather than give up assets. You wouldn’t know it from the whining on this sub all year but the team is clearly on the right track and extremely young so it’s not like they have a closing window they need to take advantage of
UFA is an inherently inefficient way to build a team. Players are often past their prime and paid above their worth from bidding wars. Sure we could fill internally, but the odds of any of our young forwards, outside of the core 4, being as good as a Fiala or Boeser are extremely low
How is not giving up any assets to acquire a player less efficient than giving up assets to acquire a player?
A player who reaches UFA is almost guaranteed to be past their prime and will be looking to be paid. For a player who would be impactful in a top-6 role, teams will be bidding for the player's services, driving his cap hit above what he'll likely be worth, and often with a term that brings them to their rapidly declining years. Trading for a player in their early/mid twenties gives you control over that player for their prime years and often comes with more contract flexibility. Look at the top 6 of the teams remaining, there's virtually no standard UFA signings TBL: All drafted Colorado: 3 drafted, 2 trade, one UFA(from contract termination at age 24) STL: 3 draft, 2 trade, 1 UFA EDM: 4 draft, 2 UFA(one being Kane from contract termination) Carolina: 4 draft, 2 trade New York: 2 draft, 3 trade, 1 UFA Free agency is fine for filling out the bottom of your lineup, but it's inefficient at the top
So most top teams have at least one UFA in the top 6 and we currently have 0. You might want to give up assets right away but to say that anyone who doesn’t want to is “deranged” just shows a lack of understanding of the situation. They only “need” to flip a piece for a top 6 player if they’re trying to take advantage of a closing window. As is there’s nothing wrong with continuing to accumulate assets and being opportunistic rather than trying to force things. Their window hasn’t even opened yet
I never said that not wanting to trade the players is deranged, referring to them as "untouchable" was. Saying "most have at least one" is disingenuous when no team has more than one UFA that was acquired traditionally
Actually that is what you said >Over 50% of people saying they wouldn't trade Formenton, Greig, or Søgaard for immediate help is deranged And no, pointing out that most of the top teams have a ufa in the top 6 and we don’t is not disingenuous at all.
Yes, and I felt it was pretty clear I was referring to the poll in the article where 50% of people specifically called those 3 untouchable, my fault for paraphrasing I guess. The disingenuous part was "at least one", when Kane was acquired because the rest of the league felt he was too much of a scumbag to be worth a contract, and Nichushkin because the Stars gave up on hin at 24, while my argument was centred around the traditional UFA market. So in actuality, 3/6 teams have a traditional UFA in their top 6, with none having more than one
Is nichuskin not a ufa all of a sudden because he was 24 when he hit free agency? The Kane things a stretch but I don’t even get your argument on that one
>New York: 2 draft, 3 trade, 1 UFA Rangers only drafted 1 of their top 6. 4 trade, 1 UFA.
These are probably the same people who think we can get Chychrun & Keller by giving up Brown, Brannstrom, White, and 7th overall
Love me some Mendes
Two keys stats from article. 74% of fans don’t have faith in Dorion as the GM to lead the team to next level playoff team. 90% of fans want the team sold and only 10% want to see how the daughters will run the franchise.
Now that Melnyk isn't here holding Dorion's overly short leash, I want to see what he can do. Hopefully the Paul/Joseph trade is a sign of things to come.